Reformation of Islam

>>129320547
>islam should be reformed.

according to sam harris and friends, it should be. good luck with that.

>>129320547
at the present moment I don't think it can be reformed

>>129320683
>sam harris
Never heard about that guy - seems pretty based.

>>129320855
You could be right but look around at the young, EMPLOYED muslims in our country. They are exposed to our way of life so I think they would be a good target.

>>129321077

>Never heard about that guy - seems pretty based.

hes half jewish, an atheist and anti-trump so most of /pol/ hates him however hes staunchly anti-islam while still being liberal on most issues. he has a friend hes always talking to named maajid nawaz who is an ex islamist and is always going on about reforming islam.

>>129320547
Fuck off cuck. Islam should be reformed with Zyklon B.

>>129320547
>Islam should be reformed
It has just been reformed. The result of this reform is called Wahabism.

>>129320547
this is usually how it goes:

>blogger in saudi arabia makes a blogpost in his personal .tk blog
>"islam should be reformed"
>1 day later he is beheaded

>>129320547
A true reformation can not be possible until the House of Saud is purged and the holy land reclaimed. They hold the reigns of the faith and their guidance has lead the Ummah where it is today.

It has already been done. Ther are Ahmadiyya and Alevi Muslims that are everything you would want out of a reformed Islam. Peaceful, relative gender equality, tolerant. But their creed never took off and orthodox Muslims keep slaughtering them to this day.

>>129320547
Won't work
The Christian Reformation webt back to its roots and worked because of that.
Doing so with Islam would only make it worse and doing anything else won't work because the religion is quite clear on not changing shit.
Fuck yourself and read a book before you open a shitty thread like this.

>>129321747
The influence of the Saud on radical Islam is grossly exaggerated. For the most part they had close to zero influence on the spread of salafism which very often often develop specifically against them.

>>129321721
I hate to agree with a swede, but that

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How the fuck do you go on about reforming it ? Quran was written by Muhammed, who got it straight from Allah. By reforming you'd have to change Quran. So basically you would be saying that either Muhammed lied, or Allah was wrong. If Muhammed lied, how can you believe anything in Quran? If Allah was wrong, he is not a fucking God. There is no reformation for Islam. Only total anhilation will work.

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>>129320547
REPEAT AFTER ME. IT'S NOT THAT ISLAM SHOULD BE REFORMED AS TO BE MORE CHRISTIAN, BUT CHRISTIANITY THAT NEEDS TO BE REFORMED AS MORE ISLAMIC.

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>>129321821
>Ahmadiyya
>Alevi
>Muslims

>>129320547
That doesnt make sense. Muslims believe the Qur'an is literally, word for word, down to the language, revelation straight from God. Christians, on the other hand, have wiggle room because they believe the Bible was written by man but divinely inspired

>>129320547
>let's reform islam so we get outbred by calm people instead of angry people
Really gets the noggin joggin.

>>129320547
Let's just get this straight.
Early Christianity used to be exactly like modern Islam.

Do you know what was needed for the faith to mellow down and become civil?

First there was emperor Constantine who reformed it into a state religion by merging all other faiths from within the whole Roman Empire in it and ensured that none of the religeous doctrines fuck with imperial law or Roman traditions.

Then they rashly went back on that last part and pretty much shut down any non-government approved schools of philosophy.

Then Crhsitians waged religeous wars among each other until about the 17th century.


So no.
You aren't going to be able to reform Islam on any short notice even with a full on dictatorship to support the movement.

The only thing that can be done is to reform western civilisation so it can survive against Islam for long enough till Islam reforms it self.

Which means Europeans must go full ''British Colonial Empire-mode'' and give no fucks about colonizing and economically dominating the world.

White people need to get more agressive and fuck more.
Getting rid of certain womens rights might achieve that.

POL NEEDS TO START A SCHISM, FOR A MORE FUNDAMENTAL (AND RADICAL) VERSION OF CHRISTIANITY. IT WILL BE EASIER TO SPREAD OUR MESSAGE WHEN WE ARE BEHIND A RELIGION. IT WILL ALSO BRING PEOPLE BACK TOGETHER!

>>129322097
Exactly. Any attempt to reform Islam once more would again be considered heretic just like them.

>>129322019
> If Muhammed lied, how can you believe anything in Quran?
Now you're getting it.

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>>129322224

>Early Christianity used to be exactly like modern Islam

>>129322019
>Quran was written by Muhammed, who got it straight from Allah.

The Quran wasn't written by Muhammad as he was illiterate. It was written by the companion of the prophet.
Also he didn't get it straight from Allah but the Angel Gabriel acted as a proxy.
But yeah, while the bible is man-made according to Christians, the Quran is supposed to be the word of God according to Muslism. It can't be changed.

>>129322224
>>129320547 (OP) #
>Early Christianity used to be exactly like modern Islam.

Stopped there. You are a fucking retard with no knowledge or history or common sense.

>>129320547

islam should be eradicated

>>129320547
https://youtu.be/gL-LRw5GBLE

>>129322224
>Early Christianity used to be exactly like modern Islam.

It was nothing like Islam. It was like small hippy/communist communes.

>>129322224
right of the bat you spout nonsense man.
early christians were martyr, persecuted .
early (and late) mulsims were murderes, persecutors.

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>>129322288
If you do not fall under any of the categories listed here you are not a muslim

Islam will never reform, they are too fucking stubborn. That's why it's never reformed, because any muslim that brings reform up gets lynched on the spot by the other sandniggers.

>>129322022
Well keep dreaming but you actually do have a point. Fucking white males here so beta as fuk, you can see them in the streets push him, yell at him and still wont do shiit probably starts crying. A good example are the polish people they dont let anyone fuck with them and if you do they Will just beat you up.

>>129320547
https://youtu.be/TCkfC5ZRfbw
"Ramadan is killing people off"

>>129320547
Islam should not be "reformed", it has to be physically rearranged so as to be contained in the Arabian peninsula where it belongs. Any Muslim outside of Arabia is part of an occupying or invading force. This is purely military problem, not a religious one.

>>129320547

Won't happen. There is no Muslim pope to tell these retards to stop being retards. They won't listen to any non Muslims and Muslims in authority positions won't speak out because they are brainwashed by a death cult or they are scared of the death cult.

It will be harder because there is no central authority, eg the Pope that you can break away from and start a revolution, there are many interpretations and the fundamentalist non compromising ones can always resurface.

>>129322019
90% of the problematic shit in Islam isnt even in the Quran.

There have been many so called 'reformers' including ones alive today. all of them either end up being assassinated or prosecuted and their works ignored and demonized, along with total and complete obliviousness and ignorance of the west.

also heres a pro tip for you, a thing the west can easily do: stop dumping insane amounts of money on the wahabis for their oil, how about that?

>>129323120
What is that utter dogshite you posted?

>>129320547
>ITT islam should be reformed.
If you take all the evil out of Islam it has no identity left.

>>129322835
Ibn al-Wahhab is considered an Islamic reformist. That's what we're dealing with.

>>129322932
HAVE OUR RELIGION PREACH SELF IMPROVEMENT AND TO NOT BACK DOWN, WE CAN TURN BETAS INTO MEN.

>>129320547
You do realise it is impossible to reform Islam?

By "reform" people usually mean removing Muhammad from the picture, so he is no longer the role model for Muslims to follow.

But Muslims will never accept this. Almost every religion has a central human figure, usually a founder, that represents a perfect model of piety for the religious to follow. He informs the faithful what being religion X is all about.

Jews have Moses, Christians have Jesus, Buddhists have Buddha, Sikhs have their gurus. Religions only exist because others want to follow the teachings of it's human founders. Once the founder is written out of the picture, there is no purpose for the religion to exist, the edifice collapses. There is no incentive for Muslims to abandon Muhammad because it would delegitimise Islam by default.

>Believing in any religion
>2017

None of them are true.

>>129322343
>>129322498
>>129322618
>>129322667

For those of you who don't know.
Nero didn't burn Rome.

Early Christians were infamous pyromaniacs who targeted merchants they didn't like and torched down the temples of any other faith they could get away with.
Stoning and lynching others was their staple behaviour.

The whole Sekrit Edgy Underground club shit is what drew in the high class Roman youth into the whole deal.
Early Christians were most similar to Black metal fans in the 80-s and 90-s.

Pick up a book or two and read through sources other than the Church who reported on early Christians.
They were full on sand-nigger tier.

>>129323454
>>129323454
No, hes the equivalent of christian evangelicals, 'salafi' means the ancestors, i.e following the old ways, no reformation is involved .

What if we only concentrated on western countries?
Muslims can't read arabic in our countries anyway and rely on immams to interpret it for them, that's how they can lie to themselves that their religion doesn't preach violence.
If the government gave out loads of "translated" qurans to the English speaking muslims and did this for a few generations? Would that be enough to stop them learning the real islam and eventually become as hostile to traditionalists as modern christians are to WBC etc?

>>129321615
Sounds like a carnival ride

>>129320547
Pushing Qu'ran only Islam would be a good start. Many of the justifications for violence actually come from the Hadith.

Sure, there are several Qu'ran passages that can be interpreted to promote violence, but the Old Testament has similar passages which could be brushed away.

The movement needs leaders who are secularists, and who will readily identify as their nationality above religious or ethnic identities.

>>129320547
Two things need to be done. One is to try to imbue Muslims with principals identified as conservative such as support of free market capitalism, Patriotism, personal responsibility, and an understanding of the law of man and the Western idea of Rights.

This is important. Because the current atmosphere encourages Muslims in Western countries ro be enticed by degenerate life styles that result in them becoming more and more like niggers.

Second thing is to ultimately research among older Muslims. After world war one, Islam moderated in parts of the Arab world with the collapse of the ottoman empire.. Colonialism helped Islam moderate also, forcing Muslims to respect the life styles and technology of the West. Muslims the twenties to the eighties were the closest Islam came to moderating.

When I say research among older Muslims I mean, root out the conservative ones that hate globalism and communism that came to the West in the 80s or before. Get them active in their community.

France has a lot of Muslims ideal for this. There was an enclave of Muslims in France that, during the Algerian war for Independence, would regularly hold rallies in support of the French in Paris. The Algerian liberation movement, FLN, was communist and used radicalized Muslims to systematically kill Muslims to intimidate the village into supporting the FLN. Most Muslims in Algeria wanted to be French and fought with the French against the FLN. Many of them, even veterans, are are still living in France.

There was a time when the provincial government in Algeria was going to give Parliament seats to the FLN as a negotiation for killings to stop. The government in Algeria was overthrown. The French president DeGualle amassed "emergency powers," established the "fifth republic" of France and in 1958 allowed every colony to vote on Independence or accepting the Constitution of the fifth republic. Every colony voted to remain French but Guinea.

>>129324330
YOU CAN NEVER CHANGE ISLAM OR MUSLIMS, YOU CAN ONLY CHANGE YOURSELVES AND FORCE ISLAM TO CHANGE IN RESPONSE TO YOU.

>>129320547
Pretend we found the 'real qu'ran' and push a conspiracy theory that the current qu'ran was made by (((them))).

>>129324567
IT'S NOT ABOUT THE RELIGION ITSELF YOU DOLT, THEY ARE WINNING AGAINST THE WHITES AND THAT'S ALL THAT MATTERS.... THEY DON'T CARE AS LONG AS IT WORKS.

>B-but the Bible also contains hatred
>Parts of the Bible from BC
>Quran written over a thousand years after chrst
>Muslim teachings comparable/worse than Pre-Christ era

>>129320547
asking islam to reform shows complete lack of knowledge about islam.

Why would a tiger want to remove its claws?

Why would cancer want to stop spreading?

The parts of Islam the west wants to reform are exactly the parts that threaten us.

Their MO for 1400 years has been political and violent take over of neighbouring states, what makes you think they would want to change just because you asked them nicely?

And all of this ignores Reform CANNOT HAPPEN.

There is no central power structure in Islam, no one voice to command all muslims.

Islam is UNREFORMABLE

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>>129320547
Dude, a reform is way less likely to happen than a war against islam. Religious reforms tend to be fundamentalist, in nature, unless something NEW comes along, and invalidates parts of the old religion, transforming it into a new religion altogether. Examples would be Judaism to Christianity, Hinduism to Buddhism, or (I hate to say it) Christianity to Mormonism. When a religion has a reform while retaining its identity, though, it's generally a movement to go back to basics, like Catholicism to Protestantism. Hell, islam tries to have reforms all the time--by constantly resetting their practices back to earlier, more caliphate-like iterations of the religion. ISIS is an example of islamic reform. When religions think something is wrong with how they practice, they tend to blame any extra bullshit they've picked up since the religion began, and try to reset the clock on the religion, because it's easier to say "we've gotten too far from God," than it is to say, "parts of our core religion are wrong."

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>>129322722
Which is a shame since they only decent forms of Islam, the Quran Only people and the Mutazalite's, are both not on that list.

Islam was doomed to perpetual ignorance and immorality once the asharites won.

>>129325292
So how about a different approach?
Rather than getting their leaders to reform, encourage apostacy instead?
Or have fake immams intentionally misinterpret to make it more compatible with our culture?
Again - I only care about the west, I know this would not work in actual muslim countries but just look at how much control the media has over white people. Surely muslims can't be hard to brainwash with degeneracy too?

>>129326054
That would most likely backfire, tricking stupid westerners into thinking that islam is even more peaceful than they already think it is, while muslims, themselves would probably think it's taqiyya meant to trick westerners, and ignore it.

>>129326054
You have to remember that we're dealing with a religion that ALREADY lies to people about what islam actually teaches, in order to make islam seem more benign than it actually is. Lying about islam is common practice for muslims, and they are trained to ignore the bullshit that they sell to westerners.

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>>129324309
Quran only would be a great first step. The problem is that it'll be embraced by only a small number of westernized wealthy muslims. Mostly in the US and maybe a few in Europe. In turn the entire rest of the muslim world will associate Quran only with the west and will avoid it as a matter of nation and ethnic identity. And good luck getting Quran only to spread from a majority islamic country.

Does anyone seriously expect Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iran, or Indonesia to be the birthplace and spreader of liberal quran only islam? And if the movement doesn't start there then how on earth will it spread there? And how will a minority western inclined Quran only movement compete against Saudi funding?

>>129320547
It's funny because Islam is literally "/pol/: the religion".
It isnt the religion itself there's something wrong with, it's the subhumans that practice it.

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>>129326504
>It isnt the religion itself there's something wrong with
>being this stupid
How much do you actually know about the quran, Sven? Even "quran only" would barely be an improvement. Much of the quran is literally about annihilating and enslaving non-muslims. Try again, everyone.

>>129322019
Just like the Bible, the Quran can be interpreted.

>>129326456
Maybe Egypt, because of the Copts.

A "reformed" Qu'ran only Islam that is friendly to secularism would have to come from the US, UK or maybe Asia, somewhere where secularism is already the norm.

>>129320547
"Populations end up with the dominant religion that their mean IQ can support."

Islam is very hard to reform for exactly this reason. IQ.

Also, most of its adherents want the original thing, not a kuffar or women-friendly version, because they correctly understand that it protect them from modernity.

tldr; reforming islam won't happen either.

we should focus on consumerism as a tool to make religion less relevant and islamic demography less of a threat.

>>129326821
The topic is about reforming Islam, not bashing it or pointing out its flaws, we're working with what we have.

>>129320547
the whole point of the coran, is that it is an unaltered text. been the same since the prophet wrote it in a cave.
also, 99.9999% of uslims are not violent and know what islam is about, we don't need a reform. islam works well as it is.

the real problem is not islam, the real problem are occidental countries trying to steal, either oil, land, put military bases in uslim countries, or try to distabilize the countries by turning the people against their government with propaganda.

also dont forget muslim people are not angels, they are humans like the rest, so some will brake the law, islam doesnt garantee to muslimms to go to heaven, ma y will go to hell anyways.

we don't have that cuck thing of getting all our sins washed off by going to see a pedo priest, or paying some money. only way to redeem yourself, is to do good and pray that god forbids you.

>>129326824
Unfortanately, the parts the quran that make islam a threat to the rest of the world are quite detailed and numerous.

>>129326821
Now imagine whites being muslim and sandniggers being the non-muslims.
Would you still advocate for not killing non-muslims?

Point is, from their side it makes perfect sense but the west is too castrated to react on it.

>>129326944
>we should focus on consumerism as a tool to make religion less relevant and islamic demography less of a threat.
This isn't the answer. What you're talking about is like chemotherapy, killing both cancer and healthy cells alike.

>>129326983
I realize what the topic is. I'm saying that reducing the religion to just the quran, or trying to change how the quran is interpreted, is POINTLESS, because the quran is MOST of the problem with islam. There is no way to properly reform islam. Unlike most religions, its "peaceful" phase only lasted 12 years, and was abrogated by the chapters that Muhammad wrote once he was angry at every for rejecting his religion. YOU WOULD HAVE TO LITERALLY CHANGE WHAT THE QURAN SAYS TO REFORM ISLAM.

>>129327070
Islam isn't good for racial supremacists, either, because you aren't allowed to hurt anyone who converts to islam, and faithfully practices the religion. TRY AGAIN.

>>129327029
Islam in its current form encourages, almost demands the transformation of society into an Islamic form. How do you suggest that Islam in its current form exist inside of a secular society that affords the freefom of religion for all?

Do you believe that a secular society which affords freedom of religion to all is superior to say, an Islamic Republic?

If you don't, then you will see the disconnect.

>>129326859
The US is the mostly likely place for it to happen since muslims here are pretty wealthy and pretty isolated which encourages liberalization, excepting shitty concentrations in place like Minnesota. Our population of Iranians who fled the revolution also helps.

But that still takes us back to the problem that the most likely place for islamic reform will automatically cause resistance to such reform in the rest of the world. It's difficult to separate religion from ethnicity especially when you can use religion to show how you are not 'them'. It's why Protestantism became so fiercely adopted in europe among anti-Hapsburg ethnicities. Just imagine how easy it for most of the Islamic world to ignore Quran only if they were able to dismiss it as "those USA so-called 'muslims'"

>>129327278
Your comment indicated reducing the relevance of religion in general, that's what I was referencing.

>>129327278
>LITERALLY CHANGE WHAT THE QURAN SAYS
I see nothing wrong with that.

>>129320547
>bunch of retards who don't know shit about the culture, the region and the history try to reform anything

just go and clean your fucking room you retards

>>129327500
No, I was quoting someone else.

>>129327530
I don't, either. How would we go about doing that, though? Therein lies the problem.

>>129327482
It would be a long process, centuries maybe, but a form of Islam that is friendly to secular society would have benefits traditional Islam would lack. I would argue the movement once well established in the West could eventually spread to lands where traditional Islam is the norm and potentially supplant it.

>>129327105
this is the answer if the impact is differential, if populations are not equally affected.
I agree that mass consumption is cancer.

>>129327394
Muslims have killed each other for centuries. It depends on what you regard as muslim.
Just say non-whites can never be muslim and there you go, problem solved.

>>129327278
step 1. get rid of the hadith
step 2. have people stop actually reading the Quran. make it something that everyone pretends they've read but no one actually does, like the bible in the modern west.
step 3. get all these hadith ignoring, quran only but not reading muslims to have all the same values as the west and just assume its there in the Quran.
Step 4. encourage ideas of 'oh that's just metaphor' and 'those bad things were just for the exact context of back then, they don't apply now.'
step 5. bring back the mutazilite ideas that god existed before the quran. that way you can have morals existing before the quran. then you can slowly reduce the importance of the quran to a 'guideline given long ago' instead of "the literal eternal uncreated and co-eternal word of God"

If there is hope for islamic reform to something not complete shit that's it. But it all starts with getting rid of the hadith.

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>>129321940
Before the oil boom, Salafism did not exist outside of Saudi Arabia. You had bizarre Islamic syncretism like Sufism with Hindus in India and Tengrism with Uyghurs & Turks in Central Asia. Sectarian Shi'ia/Sunni conflicts were also much less frequent. Wahhabism precedes all other Islamic fundamentalist movements by centuries. You can directly see the rise in these movements with Saudi funded madrassas and Qurans spreading.

And mirroring the Saudis, Iranian Shi'ia imams and ideology followed after the Islamic Revolution.

>>129327482
>in the rest of the world
I couldn't care less about the rest of the world, only the west. If some muslims go off to get taught the real islam don't let them back in.
I want the SJW rose tinted vision of what a muslim is to be the "truth" in our countries.

i'll tell you a story:

we know that the abrahamic scriptures have been following us for centuries and thousands of years

in this day and age, those books still have an imposing presence in our minds and society

these books contain hints of reality and truth despite looking completely silly at first

one day, there was an empire called the russian empire

it had chosen as its basis religion, christianity to be more precise

one day, rebellious entities decided to steer away from god and religion and created communism

they took over the empire, and imposed their godless beliefs on the entire people

what followed next was decades of suffering and misery

even at the peak of soviet union, things were horrible there

so what happened? soviet union crashed and burned

the basis of this society was godless, and without religion, rejection of scriptures and god

to become a livable country again, what did the russians do? they reverted the basis of their society back to god and religion

they went further back than the modern, human created systems in order to get back in shape

any human created system is bound to fail and we can see this throughout history, with the freshest example being the soviet union, and the next one being the european union

today, western ideals are godless ideals, and your system is bound to fail just like the soviet union failed

>>129327898
the quran recognizes previous scriptures and prophets thus completely shredding your retarded post into bits

>spend half of your free time subverting and rebuking Christianity for how backward and horrible it is
>spend the other half promoting how wonderful Islam could be if we just let it be more like Christianity
Gas yourself.

>>129327837
That would require changing the text of the quran. Muslims kill other muslims on the basis of not being good enough muslims. Trying to implement islam in the name of wiping out different races would just result in a battle over who the "true" muslims are. Again, ONLY if the parts of the quran about trying to convert EVERYONE, and killing the remainder are changed. Otherwise, any undesirable group could escape persecution by blending fully with the core muslim population, which would make it obvious that you were only persecuting them based on race, if you did so.

>>129327278
another person who doesn't know shit

a large portion of today's islamic jurisprudence is sourced from HADITH and not the quran

had you known anything, you wouldn't have written such asinine bullshit

>>129327640
Well that's why I made the thread :)
But I think simply translating it to English (so that muslims can read for themselves that what the immams say is wrong) would be a start.

>>129327677
That would be a bonus but not that important.

>>129327898
yes, but most of its adherents lack the intellectual means to do so: I admire those who try to reform Islam (or ex-Muslims), but they are a minority of intelligent, educated people, often ostracized by their own community.

Plus most Muslims *want* the original thing. Nothing less.

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>>129320547
What did the reformation of Christianity bring? Wars. You'd just create a new sect at war with the others.

Pic semi-related.

>>129328340
the original thing isn't original, it's a saudi fabricated innovation

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can you imagine what would happen if one of these walked through islamic countries?

can you even imagine what might happen if she stripped down and shit on the rock inside the dome of the rock? holy fuck people would lose their minds

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>>129328393

>>129328406
I mean they want the anti-modern thing, the non-modernity friendly thing.

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>>129320547

>>129322667
early christian were cucks that wouldn't lift a finger to save their beloved ones
early (and late) muslim were alpha

ftfy

>>129320547
it was already reformed by turk sages 1000 year ago. look up sufism etc

>>129328464
and rightfully so

christianity is losing exactly because it refuses to fight back

>>129328529
modernity is a mistake

when the commies destroyed the empire, they called it modern and progress

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BBW is Gods Turtles are hurting her :<

>>129328340
In the US most Muslims are all the educated and wealthy people who got the fuck out of the middle east. We don't have the same problem as Europe of getting all the shitty masses. If there is hope for a concentration of that minority of intelligent and educated Muslims acting without community pressure it's here.

>>129320547
There is scripture that protects against reformation, look into it, you'll see why it can't happen.

>>129328464
>>129328527
and before you freak out like a nigger about muh freedom, freedom that pits you in a race towards the bottom is not freedom

>>129320547
It can't be.

>>129328575
*some* of modernity is a mistake. We must discriminate between different aspects of modernity, not accepting or rejecting the thing as a whole.

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>>129328675
it comes back up again no worries

>>129327898
1) Getting rid of the hadiths would only put a dent in the threat islam poses.
2) Most muslims already don't read the quran. It doesn't matter. The quran is read to them by people that are able to quote and cite it. If citations stopped being a thing, they would notice, FAST, unless you made it illegal to own your own copy of the book.
3) see problem #2
4) The parts of the quran that encourage jihad are ridiculously clear COMMANDMENTS.
5) Islam already acknowledges that god existed before the Quran. They subverted and twisted prophets from the Bible, revisionistically making those prophets muslims, whose purpose was to tell people of the coming of Muhammad.

There is no hope for Islam to be reformed. It was devised to be the perfect global cancer. It is a CULT, to the core, in that if you deviate from fundamentalism for any reason other than engaging in covert tactics to spread the influence of Islam, your life is in danger.

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>>129328768
resistance leads to bloodshed. to stop wars, make love not war

>>129328752
the words modern and progress are misleading

it should be development and evolution

>>129328315
That's the problem. Most of what the imams say ISN'T wrong. Translating it so that non-arab speaking muslims can also read it, might just radicalize more of them.

>>129328464
The cube would sprout 9000 eyes and she's slowly descend into one of them.
The eyes would then fire out beams of light into the faces of the worshippers who would then slowly walk into the cube as well.
Once enough mass was consumed it would sprout giant insectoid legs and 8 wings before going on a rampage, destroying all life on Earth.

>>129320547
The only reformation that Islam needs is 50 cal to the head

>>129323756
ايه دة واحد مصري في بول؟

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>>129328775
What's wrong with cults? So long as they're fighting for the right causes.

Look tot he stars and it'll be fine, she's just taking her sweet sweet time. but she's committed, have patience and keep working. she's following whether you can see her or not

>>129321873

This. Reformation isnt just diluting belief, thats how athiests think byt it isnt how pious people operate. Christian reformation was about shaking thr corrupt influence of the catholic church

>>129320547
ahmed from berlin needs to nail 77 virgins to the door of the largest mosque for a start

>>129328775
>The parts of the quran that encourage jihad are ridiculously clear COMMANDMENTS

not really. jihad is completely misinterpreted. there are actually 2 types of jihad, lesser and greater. lesser jihad is where you wage war upon yourself and be enlightened. greater jihad is helping the world getting enlightened

it has nothing to do with chopping heads and yelling allahu akbar

>>129320547
It can reform all it likes where it belongs, i.e not Europe.

>>129328617
I agree with this. But if you massively import people for humanitarian reasons (I mean if you stop selecting for intelligence), it's over.

>>129328159
Look you fucking Algerian. The status of Quran as created or uncreated has a long history of debate in Islam. One that got settled when the Asharites genocided basically every Mutazilite. All consequent mainstream schools of thought in Sunni islam take those Asharite assumptions as part of the method of thinking. But that debate over the createdness or uncreatedness of the Quran has nothing to do with recognition of previous scripture. The status of the Quran as created by God or coeternal with & uncreated
is however extremely relevant to how Islam approach morality and metaphor in the Quran itself.

Go ask your local Imam or do some damn research on the history of your own religion.

>>129322224
not to mention about another 1200 years. we can afford to wait that out, surely

>>129328775
there is a shortcut to reforming islam, but your sjw(s) and politicians kinda blew it
>if you cannot safely leave a religion, it is not a religion, but a cult and should be treated as such

the long way to do it is via total elimination of a large swaths of sects to create a central authority (like the vatican/ pope)\
catholicism is >50% of christian population, but none of the muslim sects even approach 20%
this covert war for influence and open war for oil are the main drivers of islam being shitty

>>129321479
>implying wanting to help Islam integrate with the West is being anti-islam

I wouldn't trust Nawaz any further than i could throw him.

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Why is this board full of muslims and islam apologists now? Is /pol/ done for? Are people here really defending that sick ideology and wanting to accept it?

What a bunch of deadbeat cucks you faggots are

>>129329012
I call it a cult, because it operates like a stereotypical cult, in that it is dangerous to become an apostate, or even a lax practicer of the faith.

>>129328895
Sorry, I should have put quotes around stuff to make it clearer.
I figure in the translation they would also change bits and given that no one actually speaks arabic the majority of muslims would be none the wiser and would assume the immams had been lying to them (with a big enough biassed news, education and media push behind them of course)

>>129320547
it's already been reformed. hence isis. it needs a renaissance

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>>129322224
>Early Christianity used to be exactly like modern Islam.

>>129322224
>Early Christianity used to be exactly like modern Islam.
That's an incredibly reductive view. No it wasn't.

>>129329097
what you wrote in no way dismisses what i wrote in response of your initial retarded argument

>>129329047
This. Reformations tend to be fundamentalist, in nature. They turn back the clock, not move it forward to some imagined "progressive" form of the religion. Add to that fact, that islam has anti-change doctrines built into it, and all you'd do by trying to reform the religion to be more secular, is get the more secular muslims killed by the fundamentalist ones at a faster rate, leaving only the fundamentalist ones. It's like abusing antibiotics--you'll just make the disease stronger by killing the weaker strains.

>>129329338
not autistically screeching every time you see the word =/= islam apologist

>>129320547
It has already gone through a reformation called wahabism right now what now Islam is Arab nationalism, all we need to do is destroy mecca and kill the Saudi family and force all Muslims to convert to sufisms

I cant remember if its the sunnis or shias or wahabis or whatever but one of these groups are the equivalent of fundamentalist christians and produce all the extremists. This sect of Islam should be outlawed and mocked

>>129329890
>not reading the thread about how Muslims can become acceptable if they change their dogma
>people actually being Islam Apologists
>using dead memes as an argument

You can't put in what God left out.

There is nothing to salvage in Islam.

>>129329937
If you don't even know which it is why do you think your demonstrably ignorant opinion hears listening to?

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>>129322224
>Early Christianity used to be exactly like modern Islam.
HOW DO YOU NOT KNOW FUCKING ANYTHING ABOUT HISTORY??? THE EARLY CHRISTIANS WERE KNOWN FOR:
A) BEING CONSTANTLY PERSECUTED.
B) FLEEING INTO THE WILDERNESS TO PRACTICE THEIR FAITH IN PEACE AWAY FROM TEMPTATION AND PERSECUTION.
C) SOMETIMES SITTING ON TOP OF PILLARS UNTIL THEY DIED, TO GUARANTEE THAT THEY WOULD NOT SIN.
EARLY CHRISTIANS WERE KNOWN FOR NOT ONLY BEING HURT BY EVERYONE AROUND THEM FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS, BUT BEING MORE LIKELY TO HURT THEMSELVES THAN OTHER PEOPLE. THEY WERE MORE COMPARABLE TO BUDDHISTS THAN MUSLIMS.

>>129330102
Islam is satanist
How the fuck would god allow a bunch of people behead a person, and play soccer with his head in public while alot of Children is watching this disturbing scene?

>>129329755
Go ask your imam if the Quran was created by God or is uncreated and co-eternal with him. Then come back and address the initial issue, which is the "what is the status of the Quran in Islam" and "What opportunity is there for changing how muslims's approach the Quran."

That, or do us all a favor and fuck off out of Marseilles and go back to Algeria to be with the rest of your kind.

>>129329937

Jesus advocates pacifism. Extremist Christians don't harm anybody.

Mohammad actually raped, tortured, and killed people and advocated people do that.

There is no comparison.

>>129330258
Dude, the caps lock key is above shift of the left hand side of the keyboard.

>>129330258
This sounds very much like the Jew persecution complex. It really makes sense that Christianity only became the force it is once it adopted european pagans who weren't willing to be semitic cucks.

>>129330194
I was going to look it up but fuck it. Enlighten me which ones are the crazy fundies?

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>>129330273
>Islam is satanist

>>129330273
This is true. Qur'an calls Allah "the destroyer" etc. which is what Lucifer is labelled as in New Testament.

>>129330594
Jews were those who persecuted Christians. That's why Christians bear a grudge against Jews. If anything, Jews are faking it, with the help of #muhsixbillion.

>>129330647
The wasabis.

>>129330866
Allah is also called the "Great Deceiver". In the part of the Quran that talks about how Allah made sure that Jesus never got crucified, funnily enough. Islam is literally Satanism.

>>129323530
The difference is muhammad is like l. Ron Hubbard and made his own mish mash religon around him being Jesus, moses, and the Pope in one. It's scientology with more followers and funding. Notice how moses and Jesus never tried to claim political power? "what is Caesar's render unto Caesar" is an important concept to prevent cult of personality religions like Islam. The fucker just conqured some Zoroastrian tribes, married a woman to old to breed so he preached bigamy, and had it go to his head from lack of water.

>>129330984
More like Jews persecuted Jewish cult.

>>129320547
go fuck yourself liberal shit

>>129329826
This.
Ultimately the Reformation question is a demography question.

>>129331219
>liberal
I'm definitely not a "liberal" as you probably mean it. Unless you are referring to the actual meaning of liberal in which case fair enough, which is why I think that muslims in the west need to change.

It should be nuked, actually

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>>129320547
>ITT islam should be reformed
Yup, gif related sent to mecca is the first step, then good ol fashioned pogroms for the cunts embedded in the west. Might as well round up the jews to and lock them up in the same camps for lulz. Reformation achieved

>>129320547
>t. Sodomite secular

Islam is fine.

Christianity should be unreformed.

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>>129331681
Let these kebabs OUT of your lands

>>129320547
Muhammed is not the prophet anymore.

>>129332616
Guilty as charged.

As for christianity, I'm afraid it's dead in the west or at least is too weak to be a viable threat to islam so much the pity. There's no reason islam can't go the same way though.

>>129327029

Is your M key sticking there a bit Jean Pierre Ahmed?

>>129320547
Islam has already been reformed.
It's called Salafist Islam.
protip: most of the particularly shit elements of Islam are the result of the Salafist sect.

>>129321615
That's not a reform, see at the end of WW1, with the death throws of the ottoman empire, people were out of touch with Islam, this guy called Mohammad bin AbdelWahhab comes and revitalizes Islam into bedouins (nomadic Arab), one of them conquers the rest of the unwanted land by the British and French and Russians. His name is Al-Saud, he was a good friend with AbdelWahhab, so he was a appointed by God to unify the Islamic nations under one flag (globalists).

Cut to when America finds oil and Saudi Arabia gets introduced to what it means to be baller.

After the Father of Kings, unifier of the Arabian peninsula dies (King Abdulaziz bin Saud), his first son (King Saud) who's a coke and alcohol addict runs the government into the ground and he is ran to exile in Greece by his brothers.

His second son, the one that gets pissed off about Jews in the Holy land, plans to launch an assault into it with the help of other poorer Arabs and cuts of the oil to your grandpa and grandma, but gets bribed by a Jew (Henry Kissinger) to let the oil flow, and forget about the Jews that are moving from Europe to the Holy land.

This pisses off the entire Al Saud family. This is the point where shit goes down, the entire nations of Islamic majority work together one way or another to run the west down. Muslims Brotherhood is born, Organisation of Islamic Cooperation is born, Hamas, Al Qaeda, Shiites got their own shit going on too, by the time they were ready, the west was blind sighted.

Tho over time, with very old dictators of the middle east losing control, these organizations go rouge, not that they aren't acting in the Islamic superpowers interest nor that they ever stopped funding them until last year, it's just that they can't control them, best they can do is bribe them to calm down. New and younger dictators think they can just let them go or work with them. They are proven wrong. (1)

>>129332664
We are converting them slowly
And that census is inaccurate, there are fewer muslims here

>>129320547
IIRC since religious law is the word of god, it cannot be changed, which is a problem because they are stuck with shit from literally melenia ago that is keeping them down

>>129333320
Here we are today... the guy named AbdelWahhab, who wanted to return the glory of Islam, or at least attempted to... caused the unfortunate death of millions.

It's basically a religion that started recently enough not to be vague or lost in translation, it was practiced for the first time in the same language spoken today, barely anything is lost. That is why it is absurd as fuck.
>"Don't wipe your ass with bones because it's food of ghosts"...
WAT?
Man, I want what Mohammad was smoking for sure.

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my idea for islamic reformation is to hold them all down, pull down their pants, and fuck them until their spirits leave their bodies.

>>129333936
degeneracy: the post
no wonder the west is dying

>>129333894
This.
A Kebab with a developed brain.

>>129327029
>the whole point of the coran, is that it is an unaltered text. been the same since the prophet wrote it in a cave.
Too late for that. There's evidence that Aisha took some surahs out of the quran, immediately after Muhammad died, claiming that they were eaten by a sheep, during the commotion caused by your prophet's death.
>the real problem is not islam, the real problem are occidental countries trying to steal, either oil, land, put military bases in uslim countries, or try to distabilize the countries by turning the people against their government with propaganda.
This sounds like blatant scapegoating. Nice try, Ahmed. Your refusal to assign blame to muslims that are actually worthy of blame tells me everything I need to know about you.
>we don't have that cuck thing of getting all our sins washed off by going to see a pedo priest, or paying some money. only way to redeem yourself, is to do good and pray that god for[gives] you.
You're confusing all of Christendom with Catholics. Protestants are encouraged not to use priests as vicars for God, paying a bribe to enter Heaven is blasphemy, and there's no guarantee that Christians go to Heaven, either. Jesus actually said that many won't.

>>129327029
because the sane response to any slight is to blow yourself up.
Im going to go to Whole foods and put a ham in the halal section, just for you Ahmed

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>>129333320
Extremely inaccurate post. Saud was deposed because he wanted to introduce a constitutional monarchy, not because he was a "a coke and alcohol addict". Are you saying other kings were not alcohol and drug users?

I bet you're one of pic related. I hope they pay you enough riyals for this.

>>129334792
so when will you people finally clearly identify your enemies and fight it out once and for all? I

>>129335007
As long there's money to pacify the people, and terrorize those who don't toe the line, nothing will happen.

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>>129330991

>>129335311
you are basically saying, until the oil runs out ? I heard that ME leaders are investing into new tech, how is that going anyway.

>>129331664
no they dont
they need to fuck off out of the west and you classical liberals need to stop being degenerates

"reforming" religion is a codeword for pussyfying and ruining it just like reformations and councils have done to the catholic church and the "reforms" youre talkinga bout have resulted in popes like francis

its like this thanks to wonderful ideas like "reforming" religions so please stop trying to push your secular/atheist ideas to us traditionalists

thank you

>>129333320
the ummah concept is not the fucking same or even similar to globalism and you know it

nationalism is a 19th century concept forged by classical liberals and ALL reactionaries through hisotry were against it

>>129335511
Checked

That's what I'm saying. The world is doomed unless Riyadh is nuked.

>>129335629
>they need to fuck off out of the west
>stop being degenerates
Not gonna happen.

>>129336122
thats because classical liberalism is innately degenerate and its what allowed the destruction of our civilization from inside and from the outside

>>129335898
don't forget Israel and Iran. have to be thorough

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>>129320547
>Also there are people who call themselves muslims but who do not agree with the violent aspects of islam
evidence? and not just taqiyya shit

I thought not, just fuck off ahmed

>>129336225
You see destruction, I just see change and not all for the better but I'd rather live in a liberal society than an oppressed society.

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>>129320547
>In before deus vult - it's not gonna happen.
Speak for yourself Saracen scum. Heathens WILL be driven out of our lands.

>>129336256
Most is taqiyya, I don't trust muslims at all but I think they could be brainwashed into being benign.

>>129320547
It cannot be reformed. It is impossible to reform Islam for one very good reason, it is literally the word of God.

Im not typing all this shit out again, if you havent gotten it into your head by now theres no fucking hope for you.

>>129336575
liberal society IS the oppresed one ran anarchically by banking cartels and controlled in 1984 fashion and you know it

you cant possibly twist whats happeing after french revolution till today into something positively without resorting to liberal misconceptions and outright lies
>>129336716
sufis are cool

>>129320547
I think Imam Tawhidi is thinking about reformation as well.
>>129322141
>Christians, on the other hand, have wiggle room because they believe the Bible was written by man but divinely inspired

you've never run into a fundamentalist who's sure that every word in the bible is truth?
>mfw Westboro babtist is a great example

>>129320547
Reformation of Islam isn't going to happen either. Deport them all and ban their religion. If not: get outbred and conquered.

Your choice.

>>129337040
protestants are not christians, but followers of martin luther aka lucifer and therefore it doesnt count

>>129326824
The Quran is more violent than the Old Testament and its rulings are directly told to the reader, while in the latter they are shown through narratives.

>>129320547
Just reform it utilizing Taqiyya.
Make a peaceful version of the book for the infidel to read while true muslims keep adhering to the original book.

>>129337040
you do realize that this guy has no credential as an imam he's just a literally who that slapped on himself a turban and pretend to be muslim ?

>>129322270
It is called Traditional Catholicism. It has been a thing at least since around 1000. Too bad it got removed from power in the 1960s

>>129337414
tradtionalist catholicism is real catholicism
in the 60s real catholics rebelled against fake liberal catholics

people are super ignorant about it and dont know anything besides cheap kekistan and natsoc larping

t. traditionalist catholic

>>129336924
You are getting mixed up between what people call liberal today and the dictionary definition of the term, which is what I am talking about.
I agree completely that "liberal" society is actually oppressed and controlled and that SJWs are more fascist than those they hate. But that doesn't mean overtly ratherthan covertly oppressing people (i.e.sharia / puritanical law law) is better, they are both bad.

>>129337280
people are stupid

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>>129337136
>protestants are not christians, but followers of martin luther aka lucifer and therefore it doesnt count

>>129336716
Brainwash away just as long as they're not in my country, personally I prefer muslims killing each other

>>129337618
puritanism is a result of protestantism and shariah is the result of islam which are both caused by liberalism

banning things like """democracy""", abortions for teh lulz and faggotry is not extremism, its common sense

>>129337041
yep only solution, reformation not possible

>>129337041
The trouble is that we can't deport them if they were born here. We can change how their part of society is allowed to function though.
I can't see an outright ban working because they'll just practice it in hiding.

>>129337804
>I prefer muslims killing each other
That I agree with, would be even better if it didn't happen in our country though.

>>129337808
Puritanism and sharia were caused by liberalism? Interesting viewpoint, how did you come to that?

>>129337041
I would take the fight to them, play pop music loudly from warships, like they do in South korea send USBs filled with tv series etc...

>>129338228
are you legit brain damaged ?

>>129338454
are you even french ?

>>129338567
do you know that pop music tv series and all that is already common in their countries ?

>>129338654
where exactly ?

>>129338735
all of their countries except isis territory and maybe iran and saudi arabia
but even in these places they can see all of this by using vpn

>>129338835
then how do they even get brainwashed into blowing themselves up? I mean after going through the brainwashing that is modern mainstream culture?

>>129338735
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mebNNtuF7c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I73oBIyikSc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgTg8nNRYBU
nigga please that just took me 5 seconds to find on youtube

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>>129321873
This is the answer everyone seeks. I upboat this.

>>129320547
>reforming Islam
>in western countries
That's a fight I don't want to have. It's bad enough I have muslims in my country to begin with.

>>129322224
The Croat understands

>>129327029
>pray that god forbids you.
I pray this every night, Abdul. Do consult a dictionnaire...

>>129339025
modern mainstream culture is the reason why bombing happen
in my country few days after the paris shooting happen we found on social medias videos of the terrorist guys in a night club dancing and drinking alcohol while dancing (like very close) with thots and the video was only a few weeks before the attack so this guys lived most of his life as a degenerate liberal
these people tend to have no clue of what religion is and some day they feel guilty about it and they want to become a devout muslim
but here's the trick these people because they haven't been religious in their whole life, think that the only legit way to practice islam is the most hardcore extreme way so they self indoctrinate on the Internet and go look for the most extreme imam in their area who will obviously use their stupidity to push their wahabbi agenda and tell them if you blow yourself up you will be forgiven of all the sins you did (drinking clubbing whoring) so the guy believes the imam because it's an echo chamber he's looking for that is to say someone who will confirm his bias and tell him what he want to hear

>>129327029
Is there a chance you could leave the west? By all means continue being a muslim, but just take your problems elsewhere.

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>>129339787
Fuck off, they've NEVER had a hard time finding nutjobs willing to do their dirty work. All the cousin fucking probably helps.

>>129320547
Fuck islam and fuck any semetic religion whos tries to control the masses rather then show the way to a happy life.

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Gr8 m8

>>129325333
Trips of fucking truth

>>129339979
thats what i said
are you retarded ?

>>129321615
That might in some ways be a valid argument. However, out of the reformation in Christianity there were dozens of movements, luther, calvinist, baptist, jehovas witness, etc.

Wahabism is definitely the enemy here, but that doesn't mean it is the end all be all.

And it's no coincidence that the Christan reformation took place beginning with the printing press, and the renaissance.

Modern equivalent being internet, get those pissed off muslims some fucking internet, and no 3g won't cut it. The internet gives them access to information that makes their ridiculous beliefs seem retarded, plus lots of porn once they hella sin and guilt out would be much easier to think oh I'm not in trouble that book is stupid.

And of course, there's a shit ton of stuff in both the old testament and the gospel that you could use to support some really heinous shit. The argument that Christianity is just less violent is 90% shit. People just identify as Christians don't read the Bible, and maybe go to church hear some feel good crap and go home.

The torah has a ton of shit just as fucked up as the quaran, just a huge number of jews are aethists.

Any of the abrahamic religions could be fine, and have lots of good people, and any of them could be used to support some real bs. Muslims are just more religious then the other religions.

And the point of action we have is to target saudi Arabia for funding these jihad wahabist mosques.

>>129320547

It's not a bad idea on the surface, technically that is what happened with KJV but King James had a lot of authority over an ancient disconnected world.

You could print a sanitized Quran but no muslim is going to accept it because you're not their King James.

>>129322141
The quran Tho isn't the only book or teaching they follow, so much doctrine is propped up by the hadiths, which is basically just some people saying some shit that they say they heard it from someone else who heard it from Mohammed that says theyre allowed to do "x"

X usually being some straight bullshit

>>129340294
This was true long before the temptations of consumerist society were accessible, is my point. Back when they lived the austere life of the Bedouin, they could still find hotheads to ride around slitting throats VERY easily.

>>129343128
i was explaining him how is it possible to radicalize when you live your life in liberal degeneracy
i never said it's the only reason people radicalise

>>129343355
Don't write retarded statements like this, then:
>modern mainstream culture is the reason why bombing happen
Write what you actually fucking mean, inbred savage.

>>129343556
i think you completely missunderstood my point
i never said it was the reason it happen i explained how it is possible to happen following this pattern

>>129326859
Indonesia is majority Muslim, most of them are cool people and there's tons of Christians and hindus too, and plenty of more traditional native beliefs. Aceh province in Sumatra happens to be a bunch of Islamic cunts, but that's about it.

The thing is, they don't sit around all day reading the quran, what's moderating them is they don't get too deep, there's a bunch of things to practice, and some nice things in the Quran they are all aware of but they just live pretty normal lives.

And they love western culture, that's the real deal, they want to be Americans. Being American is fun, and freedom, being all super religious is gay af and no fun.

Besides shutting down wahabism, and closing borders all we need to do is let our way better culture melt away all their stupid beliefs until what's left is just a bunch of people celebrating holidays because family, and identifying as Muslim as people in the west identify as Christian but haven't picked up a Bible since they were kids

>>129343749
I think you have a point to be fair. If you look at the home grown terrorist muslims they are always losers, drug addicts etc. They are weak willed so are easy pickings for extreme immams.
Any effort to change islam in the west would definitely have to tackle that, both by preventing extreme immams from preaching (and not letting muslims back in who've gone to get taught abroad) and bringing the overtly degenerate aspects of modern life back in check for non muslims as well as muslims.
Fine - do what you want in your own home but pride events, being a disgusting druggie and being overly sexual in public isn't appropriate for anyone. Hell, even allowing people to criticise this behavior rather than shooting them down as "fascists" would be more liberal than we currently are.

>>129343749
You speak shit English then.

>>129344779
>our way better culture
pffffff, hombre...

>>129345074
maybe or maybe you aren't very well versed in english

>>129321747
horse before the cart. the house of saud exploits the structure imposed by islam. somebody gotta be the guardians of the holy sites, if not them, then the house of al-thani or isis itself. saudis did not create islam; historically, the wahhabis have created the saudis, because the saudis were at hand.

>>129345181
Are you saying it is not way way, not even close, way way way better? Because it is, so clearly the case.

>>129321821
do the hateful verses of the sunni quran figure in theirs, too? because that's all I care about. even if a group is peaceful, they are perpetuating the text that will, in the future, cause their descendants to rise up and try to force their belief on everyone.
also, these are minorities. minority muslims try to behave, more or less. what do you think an ahmadi majority middle east would look like? because I think the only difference would be you'd be posting here about how those poor oppressed sunnis are peaceful and shit.

>>129345754
it WAS, once.

>>129320547
This is 100% reasonable.

I've made the argument countless times that it is simply a less evolved religion from a cultural evolution perspective. It is younger, brasher, and optimized for societies that no longer exist.

It should be reformed, but reform is unlikely to successfully come from the outside.

>>129320547

I have been thinking of writing my own quran, getting prints, calling myself a prophet, and try to push the copies in front of a mosque.

If anything immediately needs to be reformed, It's the dietary laws. I love bacon and sausage too much to ever convert. get rid of Ramadan too because there's no way in hell that's healthy.

If I was a mudslime, i'd go allah allah boom too if I had to eat shit and starve myself once a year.

>>129348771
Ramadan is pussy fasting - they can eat as much as they want at night.
5:2 is harder (I do it)

>>129349140
5:2 is retarded as fuck
if you want to loose weight the fasting periods shouldn't last more than 24 hours in order to maximize the potential of fat loss
over 24h the body will go in hard energy saving mode thus making the rest of the fasting pointless if you intend to loose fat
t. med student

>>129320547
It won't happen until Western muslims re-discover Ibn-Rushd and Ibn-Sina.

>>129328159
>the quran recognizes previous scriptures

Only as a matter of converting,in the way christians adopted the pagan christmas tree to facilitate conversion.

I lurk local muzzie forums and they discuss a whole lot about the quran,but nothing about prior scriptures. It's just lip service, like the lip service muzzies pay to non quranic law.

>>129325333
Fuck I never thought of this before, but it's true.

>>129350384
Yeah, you don't do the 2 days consecutively. That would indeed be stupid.
1 day fast, 1 day normal, 1 day fast, 4 days normal has worked very well for me.
Even then it's still more hardcore than the ramadan fasting which is eat loads just before dawn, have a normal day, eat loads after sundown. People do that where I work by accident because they are busy.

>>129351627
i was thinking more of 1 day on one day off and in the day eating you actually exercise
i tried it last summer and lost around 32 kg in one month (i was 118 for 175 cm because med studies makes you fat) but at the end it really fucks you up like i finished the month very tired

>>129347227
>This is 100% reasonable.
And 0% feasible.

Muhammad was not just an evil bastard, he was a crafty evil bastard. He had seen what had become of other religions, particularly Christianity with its multitudes of sects and competing theologies, and so he created something that was designed from the get-go to be incorruptible, resistant to change or reinterpretation. Such reinterpretation is a great crime for the Muslim, following the prophet's instructions.

>>129320547
Let's be honest, if they actually wanted to kill us they would. 1.5 billion of them and growing. The vast majority are just dumb

>>129352073
They want to usurp us, and fuck our daughters. They want to leech from us. They are doing all this. We are the goose that lays the golden egg for them.

All you need to know about a religion is wrapped in the originator of the religion.

Mohammed.

He committed genocide. He lied, stole, raped countless women. He married a 6 year old and raped her. He raped a 9 year old. He committed adultery. He had sex with many women who already belonged to families. Did i mention the genocide? and he lied about not being able to read. He was literate.

Evil religion based on lies. There will always be Naiive people, sure. But islam doesn't agree with hard work and peacful relations. The religion is about stealing and converting. If you can not convert, kill.

1.Convert
2. Can not convert? Kill!

Why don't you see more christians blowing themselves up for Jesus or Jews bombing hospitals for God?

Islam is a religion based on war, made for war.

(I'm not condemning Muslims, just their horrid book of vile deeds and prophet, the king of lies)

>>129322472

Muhammad was a genius, why didn't Christians think of that?

>>129320547

But seriously, this is futile. Even if you point out scientific mistakes in the Quran they just go LALALALA can't hear you or say things like "Science changes all the time", because of course the fact that semen comes from between the ribs is just something we haven't really figured out yet.

It's impossible.

>>129353152
>, because of course the fact that semen comes from between the ribs is just something we haven't really figured out yet.


Remember, a non muslim also has 7 intestines.

>>129351948
I've been doing it for ages now. I get down to my target weight and ease off then fast if I've gone up. Have not felt this good since I was a teenager.
I don't exercise at all either (tried that before but don't have the staying power for it). I know if you do exercise at the same time you have to be really careful because you can faint.
I lost ~2.5 stone really gradually and am about 10 now, which is the healthy minimum for my height and overall build.
Anyway, this isn't /fit/

>>129352252
>They want to leech from us
They do indeed. Can we use that to our advantage?

>>129352451
>I'm not condemning Muslims

I am. It's a choice and should be treated as such.

The only brave ones are the apostates. the others are cowarding losers that can't think for themselves.

ex muslim here

Islam cannot be reformed, Muhammad was too much of a despicable human being. If the Quran is rewritten to exclude Muhammad then sure.

>>129353590
>The only brave ones are the apostates
This is so true. They need much more protection in the west and their plight needs to be talked about and thrown in SJW faces whenever possible. (Notice whenever the SJW encounters something that doesn't fit they simply ignore the point)

>>129320547
The Satanic Verses. Scholars say the prophet was tricked by devil.

>>129353986
>ex muslim here
Not gonna lie, former muslim here. This is fucking hilarious watching the bin laden crash and burn. But in all seriousness we can't let this guy get the nuclear codes.

>>129330258
I have to agree, the Romans were a million times more brutal to Christians than the West is to Islam.

>>129353590
>>129354206
Racist

>>129330258
And this is how the muslims of today will be remembered

>>129320547
TIM POOL
LIVE AT THE ANTI SHARIA / COUNTER PROTEST
ALREADY GETTING HEATED
>>129354562

>>129336225
That depends on the understanding one has of nationalism, which may simply be a very profound, fervent patriotic devotion. Maurras, an unquestionable reactionary, was also a monarchist, for example.

But good on you, Croat; you remained loyal in 1848, when the Hungarians rebelled. We will get our Catholic kings one day; for now, we shall strive to protect Europe, and I do not believe we will ever overcome if Europe is completely denaturalised. I do not believe, furthermore, that a ‘reactionary alliance’ is possible with Islam; as two faiths with universal callings, our differences are irreconcilable even in the smallest of cases.

>>129354576
>Racist
Fascist :p

>>129326504
>It isnt the religion itself there's something wrong with, it's the subhumans that practice it.
"it's not nazism/fascism/racism/communism that's wrong, it's the people."
what the fuck is up with the liberal doublethink. ideologies cannot be wrong, except when they say so.
for your information, all abrahamic faiths, not just islam, are cancer, due to their exclusionary nature.

>>129330258
A) not true. most of the persecution stories are made up (e.g. appear later than an opportunity to refer to them passes, gain in vivid gore details during the centuries as if further research was done etc.). christians were attacking pagans in the fourth century, and they were barely a presence before the middle of the second century, so it's 200 years from blooming to dictature.
B) and C) egyptians. they are regarded as heretics. there's a reason that 'the body is the temple of the soul' is part of the teaching; it's meant to discourage the anchorite self-denial. funny how much of now meaningless dogma is in fact a monument of some victory over a competing heresy.
the only point that stands is that very early christians were for instance deemed unfit to be judges, because it was common knowledge that they would not inflict the death penalty on anyone. we don't know, though, whether these christians were proto-orthodox or gnostics.
ALSO, STOP YELLING, FOR FUCK'S SAKE.

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Three K's a day keeps the niggers away.

If you hate niggers, jews, spics, arabs, faggots, commie scum as much as we do and you want to raid some tranny server once in a while, you should join the official Moon Central Discord! White people only. Introduce yourself in #introductions

https://discordapp.com/invite/rDSBTgq

1, 2, 3, 4 I declare a race war!
Join us and lynch a nigger tonight!

14/88,
The Triple K Mafia

P.S Fuck Niggers

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Only good Muslim is a dead Muslim.

it should be but how