/pol/ communism general

Corbyn is our last hope

Please fuck off, Marxism in general is cancer that most of us recognise is helping keep us unemployed because it's transformed into racial hierarchies rather than economic hierarchies. Everything Marxism does is basically identify who is doing well and put them down a notch, it's literally childish zero sum ideas, the political position.

>>129158915
Go back to your /leftypol/ jack off sesh and stay there.
Saged and hidden.

File: 1495582476555.jpg (432KB, 450x594px) Image search: [Google]

432KB, 450x594px

>>129158915

File: 1491778992841.jpg (244KB, 1200x802px) Image search: [Google]

244KB, 1200x802px

>>129159925

File: 1496502665738.jpg (180KB, 500x651px) Image search: [Google]

180KB, 500x651px

>>129159998

File: 4488117.jpg (68KB, 500x375px) Image search: [Google]

68KB, 500x375px

Kill yourself faggot.

File: 1496503876159.jpg (178KB, 1400x933px) Image search: [Google]

178KB, 1400x933px

>>129160042

File: 1496457554423.jpg (55KB, 720x531px) Image search: [Google]

55KB, 720x531px

>>129160106

So much butthurt from pol today..

File: sketch-1494800827140.png (122KB, 480x480px) Image search: [Google]

122KB, 480x480px

Hey asshole. Look where you are at. Now get out, you aren't welcomed here.

File: Franco.jpg (1014KB, 1322x1797px) Image search: [Google]

1014KB, 1322x1797px

>>129160721
Get fucked you little faggot.

Why can't lefties meme?

>>129161013

little faggot like Franco? I mean, he was very feminine short man. His father would bully him calling him paquita and marica (faggy)

File: Frame11.jpg (1MB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1920x1080px

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58eb1x0cPAE

>>129160482
yup because socialism is winning

File: Screenshot_20170606-201843.png (3MB, 1440x2560px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 1440x2560px

Why can't /pol/ actually debate opposing viewpoints instead of just spouting memes?

>>129162451
this there's such a right wing circlejerk on pol

>>129162451
I´d love to, but commies either just throw memes around, try to convince you with false data or just dont answer if you state Facts
So fuckem

>>129163197
rightwing do the same tho, so....

>>129158915
So what does "the workers own the means of production" mean?
How does it function?

>>129162451
every time i make honest criticisms of communism, they ignore it and continue posting communist traps.
having communists say /pol/ is a circlejerk is better than wasting my time talking to thin air.

>>129163088
The right wing circle jerk started with Trolls that laughed and then sobbed at what they had created. Or they are still laughing to this day.

>>129163619
Depends on the kind of socialist.
Market socialist: Literally just cooperative owned by the workers competing with each others
Anarcho-syndicalist: Unions working together to produce the needed goods
Anarcho-communist: Communes owning the offices, factories etc. and deciding democratically what need to be produced
Marxist-Leninst: State-owned companies and the state or regions deciding what to produce

>>129163619
Workers owning the means of production is exactly how it sounds. The workers as a whole are the business instead of a suit running the place. They vote who is in charge instead of the guy with all the money deciding how he can make more of it by fucking over everyone else.

>>129164136
this pretty much
obviously you'd get more money as a worker because there is no money going away as profit to your boss

File: executie-ceausescu-evz.jpg (93KB, 800x672px) Image search: [Google]

93KB, 800x672px

I love how 90% of the commies are from countries that never experienced communism

goodbye and good riddance

>>129164136
Except they didn't buy any of the means of production, did they? Somehow all of the people ever who talk about this conveniently forget to mention that the plan is to take it by force.
S T E A L I N G
>they owning it is not fair
>let's take it
>yeah that's MUCH more fair mate

Fuck you all.

>>129164543
You do realize that communism has never been attempted in a pure sense. Just as no country is purely capitalist. I'm also a libertarian so fuck off. I just would take the worker being propelled than a suit so he can make more money.

>>129164746
You have no idea why you are wrong, yet you talk shit. Keep it up.

File: 1473512387131.gif (1MB, 245x280px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 245x280px

>>129164756
>You do realize that communism has never been attempted in a pure sense.

>>129164844
This is how it worked previously, and if you had your way, it would work like this again. You're fooling nobody.

>>129158915
i'm gonna have a fucking aneurism if i see another marxist with 8 chromosomes speak ever again

File: 432g5g24 (2).gif (484KB, 500x235px) Image search: [Google]

484KB, 500x235px

>>129164967
fucking yanks educating us on how communism works . how ...how would we ever know

>>129164746

Fine I'll humor you. You are looking at it from a capitalist point of view. That the means of production are going to be used to produce and "Steal" from the 'fine' gentlemen that paid to have it built. However, what you are completely oblivious to, is that in a purely communist society the means of production would be built by the government then given to the workers that are predetermined to have suited skills and qualities for that job. There will still be a private sector in communism, it's just the needs of the people are preserved before the dickhead so he has the ability to compete against a government entity as is done in our country. The truth is if a government decided to actually compete in a domestic market they would win every time.

File: 1493333974118.jpg (140KB, 852x912px) Image search: [Google]

140KB, 852x912px

>>129164756
>Communism has never been attempted in a pure sense
Nor will it because communism is inherently flawed

>>129165310
>Differentiating people on the basis of skill
>Real communism

>>129165491
All ideological systems are perfect, the issue is the people implementing them, not the other way around.

>>129165613
Lmao dumb cunt can't read.

>>129164746
>S T E A L I N G
nah this only seems stealing to you because of current capitalist property right. If you lived in a socialist society it would be natural to you that the workers own the place they work at

>>129163589
But theres allways anough right wing trash on /pol/ who is completely honest in their viewpoints
I had a lot of very interesting debates on /pol/ with rightwingers
NOT ONE with a commie

File: 1466800336689.jpg (60KB, 991x902px) Image search: [Google]

60KB, 991x902px

>>129165671
>All ideological systems are perfect
u wut now m8 ?

>>129165671
So should we allow AI to run our governments? Who would enforce their will? At any point that people get involved there is potential for abuse.

>>129165613
Uhhh yes, almost every communist says that there's people with different skills
>muh communist want everyone to be clones

>>129165912
You're having one right now
Ask anything you want

>>129166032
But that pretty much what Mao and Pol Pot wanted
And Mao controlled 1/5th of the earths Population at the time

>>129165985
It's true my friend, in a perfect setting and run at the way they are intended by the right group of people. Every economic, ideological, and system that has been put forth and tried by a group of people can work as long as the group is willing to stick it out and not lose their shit as soon as they get a bit of power.

>>129166032
>creating an intellectual bourgeoisie

>>129166087
Why be a commie when you could have a functional society?
Have you ever lived under a communist regime?
Why is communism a good thing when it has killed 100+ million people since it's inception?

>>129165310
>However, what you are completely oblivious to, is that in a purely communist society the means of production would be built by the government then given to the workers

See, what you're completely oblivious to, is that the above is precisely the line that is used to get people hooked, right before screaming "fetch!" and then "borrowing" private property.

>muh pure communist state
Yeah? Go fucking build it from the ground up if you like it so much. Oh, you don't want to? Say, friend, would you prefer revolution? Gee, I wonder how that would go.

>>129165879
And there we go. "Redefining" property. It's not stealing, we'll just change how fucking basic concepts work. Why not go ahead and redefine "racist" too? Oh, yeah. I forgot.

>>129166087
How come things like the Holodomor, The great Leap Forward, Pol Pots culling etc. who are IN LINE with communist Ideology (eliminating the class enemy) never discussed even though they killed far more People than any other effort by a political Party
Killing the Priests, the Kulaks, the Farmers in Ukraine is part of the Class struggle, yet you want to tell me that communism isnt bad ?
How to defend this ?

>>129166124
Not true if someone works more he got more money, and I don't think there's a single communist anymore who supports /pol/ pot

>>129166374
>Why is communism a good thing when it has killed 100+ million people since it's inception?
How many have died of capitalism? 16,000 people die of hunger every day even thought we produce enough food for everyone
>muh capitalist efficency

>>129166374
Communist has very, very different wings and forms, for example Totalism, Syndicalism and Radicak Socialism (which might interest you). Different political figures also added different viewpoints on certain topics, I.e. state ownership of companies and trade unions.

>>129166480
They got killed after they got warned many times to follow the law. The kulaks were letting starve many farmers and hoarding everything a.k.a murderers
But many socialists nowadays want no capital punishment

>>129166620
Nice 1/3 questions answered
That's how you know you're talking to a commie, they cannot justify their nonsense, only point elsewhere and say that shit's worse there.
If you fed as many people as you answered those questions, 2/3 of your population is starved.

>>129164054
>>129164136
So the leadership still gets deferred to a higher power and as production complexity increases how can the industry remain stable as the voting hierarchy tips toward an more imbalanced worker:administrator ratio where very fewer and fewer individuals have any idea of management requirements?

>>129164281
But you can't really do anything with that money because building a machine to sustain yourself would inevitably lead to it being seized by the state/people. What mechanism exists to reward or elevate exceptional individuals?

File: conlibchin.png (284KB, 1010x330px) Image search: [Google]

284KB, 1010x330px

>>129166436

>>129166620
But not in a capitalist Society, where do These People starve ? Most of them in Africa, a continent where you often dont have a rule of law, no Government to take controll, and religious and tribal affairs still going on today
Capitalism only crops up in places where you have stable conditions, there isnt capitalism in those places, the economic System there is called Feudalism, cant blame capitalism for the faults of another economic system

>>129166896
Okay I'll tell you more the reason many people died in china wasn't the great leap forward but the famine. And many historians nowadays believe that less people died than ususal because there were redistribution policies

>>129166992
>So the leadership still gets deferred to a higher power and as production complexity increases how can the industry remain stable as the voting hierarchy tips toward an more imbalanced worker:administrator ratio where very fewer and fewer individuals have any idea of management requirements?
Well if it's a job where no administration is required there would be none (remember capitalism often invents managers to suck more money out of the workers) and it would be different because they wouldn't be paid THAT much more than a normal worker

File: IMG_1704.jpg (17KB, 250x234px) Image search: [Google]

17KB, 250x234px

But you guys realize that you're debating about Stalins personality cult and his abstract form of Totalism, rather then Communism itself, right?

>>129166851
See ? thats allready fucking wrong. There wasnt a clear Definition of who was a Kulak
They were farmers just like the rest, yes they were the ones that were economicaly more successfull, but they didnt have any form of power.
They didnt take the equippment from other farmers, the Bolsheviki took THEIRS

>>129166992
>What mechanism exists to reward or elevate exceptional individuals?
They would get paid a bit more and social rewards, people would like you more because you're such a good worker

>>129167403
Then tell me how the fuck HIGHER COMMUNISM should ever work ?
That literally just works if you breed People to become sadomasochistic workslaves
thanks, but no thanks

>>129167208
>It wasn't political violence and poor government policy that killed those people! It was because no one had food!

>>129167074
No they are dying in South America, Africa and Asia that's like 4/5 of the world population
>not true scotsman/capitalism
not this again, it is even more capitalist than america and europe, because america and europe get to live off the underpaid work in the third world

>>129167403
this, I'm just defending stalinism as devil's advocate it's not what I intend when I mean socialism.
Socialism is democratic from the ground up and very libertarian instead of authoritarian

>>129158915
Well, I'm not a comunist, but it's true that China is currently growing more than most of the countries in rhe world with a comunist government.

>>129166230
saying
>Every economic, ideological, and system that has been put forth and tried by a group of people can work as long as the group is willing to stick it out and not lose their shit as soon as they get a bit of power.
is simply mentally retarded . systems are not inherently perfect that's why they've been changed throughout history . That's unless you're talking about people LARP-ing and pretending that everything is ok while the country burns
>>129166620
We don't though . We don't produce food to "feed the world" we produce it to sell it.

You have no right to steal my food just cause i don't want to share it

>>129167582
How do you know, since it hasn't been tested at all (thanks to the whole Trotzki-Stalin-UdSSR shit)? Plus, how can it be worse then the current state, where workers get less wage by year?

I'm honestly curious, because the economic problems seem imminent. And that's why I'd rather discuss how it MIGHT work. Trade unions? More state control? A concept like modern China?

>>129167431
There was. They didn't just go there one day and killed them. They knew what they were risking. But they thought: I surely need 10 metric tons of grain for myself, let's starve other people lel

>>129167776
That's questionable. China fluffs it's GDP with ghost towns and shit.

A bit off topic however, my main love of debating with those that believe that ideas are inherently evil is they are completely oblivious to the faults of their own chosen 'evil' blindly accepting that their chosen system is the best despite the fact they are all terribly run. Just because one allows for exploitation better than others does not mean it's better than the others. Just means you are more of a dick. Also once again I'm not even communism but, writing off systems for 'muh's better' show's your inability to comprehend basic knowledge outside of your own flawed head.

>>129167582
>sadomasochistic workslaves
are you talking about capitalism. there are people working 16 hours a day. or working two jobs. People fucking commiting suicide because of capitalism

File: 432g5g24 (1).gif (1MB, 250x231px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 250x231px

>>129167643
>South America, Africa and Asia
>more capitalist than america and europe

>>129167598
China had many famines even before Mao, and more people died then

>>129167969
A good summary imho. What we need is to take a step back, evaluate the current the situation of and discuss alternatives.

>>129167457
>people would like you more because you're such a good worker

You mean the media funded by a totalitarian state would like you more. The people wouldn't give two shits. Well, that's not even true. These "star workers" were the subject of many (mostly illegal) jokes in the past.

File: Cuba.jpg (117KB, 876x493px) Image search: [Google]

117KB, 876x493px

>>129158915
Go live in Cuba.

>>129168022
>Mao did nothing wrong, people have been dying forever!

>>129168070
Ok, I'll tell you why I became a communist (economically). Think about automation. The reason why it's been shit in europe and america since 2008 is because capitalism ---> more automation --> lower wages/more unemployment --> people money for people to buy stuff ---> even less jobs
They point is that this wouldn't have happened in a socialist society because with more automation you get less working hours for the same wage a.k.a. everyone gets the fruits of automation instead of just the few at the top (bankers, big business) who own all the machines and robots

File: 1480922026574.gif (1MB, 800x667px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 800x667px

>>129164756

Of course, it never really counts.

>>129167643
No true scotsman, you really dont know what that means, do you ?
South america is divided in two zones
Brazil, Argentina, Paraguay, Uruguay, Peru, those are the "capitalist" countries (not really capitalist but free market System) is there a famine ? no shortages of any Kind ? no
Now look at socialist Venezuela, one giant shitshow even though the got the most Oil in the fucking world.
Now africa, Warlords pressing the blood out of the Poor is like Knights in Feudal Europe repressing the farmers 1000 years ago, this is Feudalism, not capitalism
Dont confuse economic Systems
Now lets look at China, which is synonimous with asia
Yes they have capitalism, but not like we do, They got a one Party System, which means if you want any form of political power you gotta go there, they got 400 Million "middle class People" since they abolished communism, but they also have 600 Million fucking poor Rice farmers, who they can surpress however the hell they want, since One Party System= no Opposition, you cant compare their System with any European style System, and yet they are still better of than under communism

>>129168312
I didn't say that.
I agree Mao was shit. But spouting capitalist propaganda is shit too

>>129167978
WTF-dog pic anon here. How do you rate modern China and Cuba? Is it Communism solely able to survive with Capitalists around it? Are there room for improvements, and especially for the workers and the poor?

>>129168417
Ok buddy, just cover your eyes and ignore all the death and destruction, and soon enough we will have a perfect utopia, right? You delusional fuck.
Anyone else > Commies

>>129167978
are you 14 or something ?
Nobody is Standing there with a bayonett if you dont want to work 16 hours a day.
Thats People just having fucked up priorities
(I guess you are refering to Japan and yet they dont have a law where you have to work that Long)
In Communist cambodia you had to work on the Rice fields. That was Pol Pot just taking the essence of Communism to the fullest degree.

File: Gommunism.jpg (13KB, 250x250px) Image search: [Google]

13KB, 250x250px

>>129158915
Hello gomrades! XDDDD Dis general is for disgussion of margsism-lebonnism, da ideology of revolutionary socialism and gommunism.

Gommunism is da next stage of guckery following real society.

Wat exagtly is gommunism according to gommies:

>Gommunism is a stage of guckery in which the produgtive infrustrugture runs away from gommie country, and no goods are produced and beeple starve. XDDDD
>Gommunism in full form is obressive, statist society dat follows maxim "gib gib gib!" :DDDD
>To achieve gommunism we must replace broduction with murderous obressive rulers liek me, fug working glass beeple. XDDDD Struggle while I liquidate you all lol. When capitalists run away we win and I kill you all. Eventually the functions of state cease and state becomes murderous and indistinguishable from other gommies. Da state withers away liek da people.
https://www.gommies.gom/fug/
https://www.gommies.gom/starve/

GL uses philosphy of gib and starve, see here:
https://www.gommies.gom/ohfugme/

It is recommend you kill yourself so you can avoid starving.

Resources:
https://www.gommies.gom/ohshid/
https://www.gommies.gom/1984/
https://www.gommies.gom/guck/
https://www.gommies.gom/probaganda/
https://www.gommies.gom/XDDDD/
https://www.gommies.gom/wheresfood/
https://www.gommies.gom/benis/

Da sdages of gommunism.

>Sdage one
Bourgers aren't allowed to vode :DDD but otherwise da system is digtadorshib of gommies. Everything is stole by digtadors and digtadors rule all.

>Sdade two
Withering
All beeple who aren't digtador glass starve. XDDD Once glass disabears and we steal everything more beeple wither away. Bolice begome unnecessary as beeple are dead lol :DDDDD Central blanning begomes unnecessary begause sgarcity caused starving. Money is all ours.

>Sdage three
Gommunism.
No beeple. No food. My money. Much benis.

>Sdage four
Nod real gommunism. Move on to nexd goundry :DDDDDDD

>>129168333
I'm more of a conservative myself, but I agree with the current problems of automation, which boosts productivity in one hand, but disfavor the workers on the other. I think part of communists ideas might help for a new economic system, which is - again, in my opinion- highly needed.

>>129168333
>socialist society
>communism

Yeah, those are surely the same things. I'm not being sarcastic. Like, at all. LOL Echs-Dee.

>>129167978
>there are people working 16 hours a day. or working two jobs. People fucking commiting suicide because of capitalism
>commiting suicide because of capitalism


What in god's name are you talking about. I live in a shit 2nd world country and i can easily not "working 16 hours a day. or working two jobs. People fucking commiting suicide because of capitalism"

Communists would FORCE PEOPLE to work UNPAID for the """BENEFIT OF THE PEOPLE (as in all other people)""" in effectively every country they controlled

>>129168435
You are talking about countries that have chosen communism solely for the fact that it's able to keep it's people in check. Not because they like the system is introduces, therefore just as when liberals in our country introduce something say social security the 'good guys' to you all try and cut it. The true reason being is that it makes Liberals look good. The worse it performs the better same concept.

>>129168696
Hans, not every country contains abusable systems like ours (Arbeitslosengeld II).. They need to eat and pay rent. You know, basic stuff to survive?

>>129167874
If you want to see communism tried to it s fullest look at cambodia, that pretty much was the essence, there IT WAS TRIED.
The best System is a free market System, with a socialist touch. Here People are the most free and the wealthiest
HIGHER COMMUNISM doesnt work
What you see in europe today is just both sides (Capitalists and Socialists) attacking and slowly breaking the old System of the free market, slowly corrupting it
The economic downturn is something you cant really Counter, since we dont have a cristal ball
thats just life being shit

>>129168696
No just starve to death instead, right?

>>129167776

Many /pol/acks will love this *including me

Communist Party of China expels member for participating in religious activities in a mosque

Communist Party of China expels member for participating in religious activities in a mosque

http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report-communist-party-of-china-expels-member-for-practicing-religion-2457922

>>129169111
>You are talking about countries that have chosen communism solely for the fact that it's able to keep it's people in check. Not because they like the system is introduces, therefore just as when liberals in our country introduce something say social security the 'good guys' to you all try and cut it. The true reason being is that it makes Liberals look good. The worse it performs the better same concept.
Read it again.

>>129168816
The thing is this is exactly what Marx predictet wrt automation and the crisis of capitalism it would be.
He also predicted captialism would lead to outsourcing

File: IquP2Io.jpg (29KB, 400x266px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 400x266px

Kill yourself you useless fag

>>129168999
A good point, but how do you categorize this system? Is it Totalism without a personality cult? If so, should Totalism be abandoned? How is it different to current problems with social constructs all around he world?

I think these are some interesting questions to start.

>>129169032
>>129169090
In which Country in the first world dont you have Systems for the poor ? where do you starve when you dont work ? Which Country
please be specific so i can Google it

>>129169235
thank you for your argument, had never thought of it in this way

>>129169259
>first world
ah yes let's take only the non-failed capitalist states and ignore the others, makes sense

File: karl_marx-thumb.jpg (10KB, 250x337px) Image search: [Google]

10KB, 250x337px

From the realm of necessity to the realm of freedom.

File: 1488697280488.jpg (25KB, 600x600px) Image search: [Google]

25KB, 600x600px

>>129158915
Hey it's that same Spainfag that posts this same thread everyday

File: saved.png (78KB, 480x360px) Image search: [Google]

78KB, 480x360px

>>129168724

>>129169111
It isnt a Party, it simply is the Government
There is only controlled Opposition
Just look at the communist Party members (over 88 Million)
and the other Seven parties combined (1 Million)

File: lenin-stalin.jpg (40KB, 470x314px) Image search: [Google]

40KB, 470x314px

>>129169463

Hi comrade nice to see you again, have a nice day or night.

>What must be questioned is not the value of this or that economic system, but the value of the economy itself. Thus, despite the fact that the antithesis between capitalism and Marxism dominates the background of recent times, it must be regarded as a pseudo-antithesis. In free-market economies, as well as in Marxist societies, the myth of production and its corollaries (e.g., standardization, monopolies, cartels, technocracy) are subject to the "hegemony" of the economy, becoming the primary factor on which the material conditions of existence are based. Both systems regard as "backward" or as "underdeveloped" those civilizations that do not amount to "civilizations based on labor and production"—namely, those civilizations that, luckily for themselves, have not yet been caught up in the feverish industrial exploitation of every natural resource, the social and productive enslavement of all human possibilities, and the exaltation of technical and industrial standards; in other words, those civilizations that still enjoy a certain space and a relative freedom. Thus, the true antithesis is not between capitalism and Marxism, but between a system in which the economy rules supreme (no matter in what form) and a system in which the economy is subordinated to extra-economic factors, within a wider and more complete order, such as to bestow a deep meaning upon human life and foster the development of its highest possibilities. This is the premise for a true restorative reaction, beyond "Left" and "Right," beyond capitalism's abuses and Marxist subversion. The necessary conditions are an inner detoxification, a becoming "normal" again ("normal" in the higher meaning of the term), and a renewed capability to differentiate between base and noble interests. No intervention from the outside can help; any external action at best might accompany this process.

>>129169564
>In order to resolve the problem, it is necessary, first of all, to reject the "neutral" interpretation of the economic phenomenon proper to a deviated sociology. The very economic life has a body and soul of its own, and inner moral factors have always determined its meaning and spirit. Such spirit, as Sombart has clearly shown, should be distinguished from the various forms of production, distribution, and organization of economic goods; it may vary depending on individual instances and it bestows a very different scope and meaning on the economic factor. The pure homo oeconomicus is a fiction or the by-product of an evidently degenerated specialization. Thus, in every normal civilization a purely economic man—that is, the one who sees the economy not as an order of means but rather as an order of ends to which he dedicates his main activities—was always rightly regarded as a man of lower social extraction: lower in a spiritual sense, and furthermore in a social or political one. In essence, it is necessary to return to normalcy, to restore the natural dependency of the economic factor on inner, moral factors and to act upon them.

>>129169389
>ignore the others
I literally just told you. I can survive just well and even afford unnecessary trivial shit with a simple 8 hours/day job.Not 16 hours a day, not two jobs

>>129169564
>>129169592
>Once this is acknowledged, it will be easy to recognize the inner causes in the actual world (which have the economy as their common denominator) that preclude any solution that does not translate into a steeper fall to a lower level. I have previously suggested that the uprising of the masses has mainly been caused by the fact that every social difference has been reduced to those that exist between mere economic classes and by the fact that under the aegis of antitraditional liberalism, property and wealth, once free from any bond or higher value, have become the only criteria of social differences. However, beyond the strict limitations that were established within the overall hierarchical system prior to the ascent of the economy, the superiority and the right of a class as a merely economic class may rightly be contested in the name of elementary human values. And it was precisely here that the subversive ideology introduced itself, by making an anomalous and degenerative situation into an absolute one and acting as if nothing else had previously existed or could exist outside economic classes, or besides external and unfair social conditions that are determined by wealth alone. However, all this is false, since such conditions could develop only within a truncated society: only in such a society may the concepts of "capitalist" and "proletarian" be defined. These terms lack any foundation in a normal civilization, because in such a civilization the counterpart constituted by extra-economic values portrays the corresponding human types as something radically different from what today is categorized as "capitalist" or "proletarian." Even in the domain of the economy, a normal civilization provides specific justification for certain differences in condition, dignity, and function.

>>129169389
then tell me which, you are just dodging my question and trying to Sound deep
give me a Country, with capitalism or the free market IN EFFECT where there isnt welfare for the poor

>>129169564
>>129169592
>>129169639
>Moreover, in the contemporary chaos it is also necessary to acknowledge what is caused by an ideological infection. It is not entirely correct to say that Marxism arose and took hold because there was a real social question that needed to be addressed (at best this may have been the case during the early stages of the industrial revolution); the opposite is true—to wit, that for the most part the social question gains precedence in today's world only as a result of the presence of Marxism. The social question artificially arises through the concerted effort of agitators, those who are engaged in "rekindling class consciousness." Lenin did not assign to the Communist Party only the task of supporting "workers' movements" where they arose spontaneously, but rather the task of creating and organizing them everywhere and by every means. Marxism gives rise to the proletarian and class mentality where it previously did not exist, stirring excitement and creating resentment and dissatisfaction in those societies where the individuals still lived in the station allotted to them by life. In those societies an individual contained his need and aspirations within natural limits; he did not yearn to become different from what he was, and thus he was innocent of that Entfremdung ("alienation") decried by Marxism. Incidentally, we should recall that Marxism proposes to overcome this alienation through something worse—namely, the "integration (or, we should say, disintegration) of the person into a collective entity (i.e., the 'people,' or 'the party')."

>>129169259
Start with this, continue reading via the sources:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_state

I only have 9% battery charge left so I'll probably drop out in a few minutes. Sorry

>>129169564
>>129169592
>>129169639
>>129169679
>I am not espousing an "obscurantism" for the benefit of the "ruling classes"; as I have stated previously, I dispute the superiority and the rights of a merely economic class living in a materialistic fashion. Nevertheless, we need to side against the idea or myth of so-called social progress, which is another of the many pathological fixations of the economic era in general, and not the legacy of leftist movements alone. To this effect, the eschatological views of Marxism do not differ very much from the "Western" views of prosperity: both Weltanschauungen [worldviews] essentially coincide, as do their practical applications. In both Marxism and free-market economies we find the same materialistic, antipolitical, and social view detaching the social order and people from any higher order and higher goal, positing what is "useful" as the only purpose (understood in a physical, vegetative, and earthly sense); by turning the "useful" into a criterion of progress, the values proper to every traditional structure are inverted. In fact, we should not forget that the law, meaning, and sufficient reason for these structures have always consisted in references for man to something beyond himself and beyond the economy, wealth, or material poverty, all these things having only a secondary importance. Thus, it can legitimately be claimed that the so-called improvement of social conditions should be regarded not as good but as evil, when its price consists of the enslavement of the single individual to the productive mechanism and to the social conglomerate; or in the degradation of the State to the "State based on work," and the degradation of society to "consumer society"; or in the elimination of every qualitative hierarchy; or in the atrophy of every spiritual sensibility and every "heroic" attitude.

>>129158915
why dont you guys just kill yourselves

>>129169245
I think it goes without question to say that Authoritarianism is going to be a major problem as the reason they succeed is the fact that the non-author's will not use force to stop them as they would end up being authoritarians them self. Which the Authoritarian has no problem blowing their opponents brains out.

Dear commie, most of /pol/ started out like you. We recognized modern capitalism and economic conditions were fucked. We leaned left for years until we realized jews were behind almost all Western financial fuckery, and we became nationalist after realizing they were attempting to destroy us.

At heart we still lean left economically, but as long as you still preach that everyone is equal and we're going to hold hands with niggers and muslims under the guidance of comrade shekelstein we're going to tell you to fuck off. If you want to actually spread socialism here the socialism ought to be for our race.

It would be satisfying to see socialism that isn't Bernie bullshit or some Soviet quote belcher discuss its benefits as opposed to kike dominated corporate capitalism.

>>129169564
>>129169592
>>129169639
>>129169679
>>129169743
>Hegel wrote, "Happiness is not to be found in the history of the world [in the sense of material comfort and social prosperity]; even the few happy periods found here and there are like white pages." But even at an individual level, the qualities that matter the most in a man and make him who he is often arise in harsh circumstances and even in conditions of indigence and injustice, since they represent a challenge to him, testing his spirit; what a sad contrast it is when the human animal is granted a maximum of comfort, an equal share in a mindless and "bovine" happiness, an easy and comfortable life filled with gadgets, radio and TV programs, planes, Hollywood, sports arenas, and popular culture at the level of Reader's Digest.
>Again, spiritual values and the higher degrees of human perfection have nothing to do with either the presence or the absence of socioeconomic prosperity. The notion that indigence is always a source of abjection and vice—and that "advanced" social conditions represent its opposite—is the fairy tale told by materialistic ideologies, which contradict themselves when they uphold the other myth, according to which the "good guys" are on the side of the people and the oppressed workers and all the "bad guys" are to be found on the side of the wealthy classes, which are corrupt and exploitative. Both of these are fairy tales. In reality, true values bear no necessary relation to better or worse socioeconomic conditions; only when these values are put at the forefront is it possible to approximate an order of effective justice, even on the material plane. Among these values are: being oneself; the style of an active impersonality; love of discipline; and a generally heroic attitude toward life.

>>129169389
>non-failed capitalist states
Well at least THERE ARE non-failed capitalist states.

>>129169694
>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_state

that doesnt answer my fucking question.
Is there a capitalist Country where you dont have a welfare state ? Just give me ONE please i dont give a shit about definitions but facts

>>129169564
>>129169592
>>129169639
>>129169679
>>129169743
>>129169812
>Against all forms of resentment and social competition, every person should acknowledge and love his station in life, which best corresponds to his own nature, thus acknowledging the limits within which he can develop his potential; and should give an organic sense to his life and achieve its perfection, since an artisan who perfectly fulfills his function is certainly superior to a king who does not live up to his dignity. Only when such considerations have weight will this or that reform carried out on the socioeconomic plane be conceived and implemented without any negative consequence, according to true justice, without mistaking the essential for the accessory. Unless an ideological detoxification and a rectification of attitudes are carried out, every reform will be only superficial and fail to tackle the deeper roots of the crisis of contemporary society, to the advantage of subversive forces.

>Tyranny of the Economy & Pseudo-Antithesis between Capitalism & Marxism (from "Men Among the Ruins") t. Julius Evola

>>129158915
Socialism is a failed point of ideology because of it's very definition itself where it's only just a proper way of speaking, And communism is just a type of oppressive government that only consumes power and spreads Fear, Torture, and Tyranny around in a single country and possibly in the whole world. and if you think I'm kidding just look at Venezuela along with china, France, Germany, and Great Britain. You blasphemous scum sucking Pig like whores!!!

>>129169769
I wholeheartedly agree. I think it is currently one of the main problems and why debating about Communism can be rather tiresome.

>>129164756
>You do realize that communism has never been attempted in a pure sense.

The Jew commies did try between 1918 and 1921 and the result was fucked. That's why they had to come up with the New Economic Policy in 1921.

>>129169933
You are 22 years old little faggot. You know as little as the rest of us, yet you speak like you know truth. You have no idea but the ideas planted in your head by a group of people who give no fucks about you.

>>129169871
The thing is, you even have a map with current expanses of first world states which indicate who has weak social welfare and for what reason. You don't want examples, you want to rant and shout. That's why I shared the artivcle, so you can inform yourself about problems in i.e. Canada and Australia

I really don't have the patience for spoon feeding you.

>>129170021
I agree with that. As I've said I'm not one, however the merit of the ideas set forth shouldn't be thrown aside without at least a second look for something meaningful. All systems introduced to the world so far have been used to oppress others. All it takes is one that isn't seeking power. Which of course will never happen til we have a billionaire that decides he wants to create something awesome. Sadly the only one to attempt it has failed just as communist states have. RIP Trump's attempt to save his flawed vision of America.

To be fair, almost all socialist states were set up by corrupt kike cabals on the Soviet/Stalinist model and were perpetually dealing with interference on all levels from most of the capitalist world. Exceptions of course being the axis National Socialist states which seemed extremely successful before they were bombed into oblivion.

Light socialist/welfare states have also been paradises (Scandinavia) before the EU flooded them with muslims and niggers.

>>129170260
"Rant and shout" what the hell are you on about
I m asking you which capitalist Country doesnt have welfare and all you do is dodge my question
of course there are Problems everywhere, thats pretty much with any System
Your wikipage is useless and the only Thing it Shows is that the Free Market countries who are by Definition capitalist, have done the most for their People.
Have you even read the wiki ?
Thats the Point of my first post, you cant fucking debate with a commie

>>129170524
Shut the fuck up, you can't fucking read faggot. He has been debating the two would be commies in here you insufferable piece of shit.

>>129167376
>it would be different because they wouldn't be paid THAT much more than a normal worker
Then whats the incentive for occupying those positions considering they occupy a great deal more risk and responsibility than common workers?
Do the positions simply carry reduced risk for administrators in the event of catastrophic failure opposed to capitalistic counterparts? Do you just offer a vote of no confidence and brush it off while those down the distribution chain have to wait for orders to be filled?

>>129170524
> even named Canada and Australia
> provided source
> "you can't debate with commie"

Well, aren't you cute. Have fun with your politics, which seem alternativlos

>>129170676
Don't try. Being that narrow minded, he wouldn't accept an alternative concept, even when it has been worked out to the last digit. Wasted energy, sadly.

>>129170784
according to your own wiki you gave me Australia spends 19% of ist Budget and Canada spends 17% of ist Budget on Welfare
that is the Definition of Welfare states
Do you even read your own sources ?

>>129170699
>occupy a great deal more risk and responsibility
We've mostly solved that problem with the jury system. If there's no permanent position, what's the risk, other than your underlings taking you hostage until you get some sense knocked into your head?

Lots of people cucked by comrade Corbyn tonight.

>>129170893
Most likely not, however, I am completely respectful to all, til they prove they aren't worth the effort to keep up the facade of good intentions when talking to others.I have to go for now, enjoyed our debate.

>>129171007
>Implying commies can read

>>129158915
Just stopping by to remind you that you'll all be lined up against the wall and gunned down with belt-fed machine guns soon. The only good Communist is a dead Communist.

>>129171195
Implying the person you are supporting can read, when it's been proven multiple times over they are incapable of thoughts outside of what's been forced down their shit grinning throat.

>>129171150
Me too, 3% battery. Rather use it for some reading. See you in the next thread.

>>129159644
Agreed!

>>129171309
I read your Posts through this thread and they basically said that you wished Batman would take over the World and make it all super awesome for everyone for evers and evers>>129170339

If you cant deal with reality please dont debate politics

>>129159644
No, that's liberalism. Liberals want to keep the working class divided. Leftists want to keep the working class united. See the difference?

File: 1433894022481.jpg (32KB, 600x600px) Image search: [Google]

32KB, 600x600px

>>129158915
Dear communists friends, (i'm talking about the real communists, not the /pol/tard neo-nazis who pretend to be communists for controlled opposition purposes)

Communism has failed as in ideology in many countries. however, Social Democracy has been an incredible success in the Scandinavian countries and Canada

Social Democracy is the moderate, reasonable lefty position. not communism. social democracy is PROVEN to work wherever it was tried

>>129171309
You've are confusing science fiction with reality, get help

>>129171008
So if you fuck up as an administrator in communism you get the shit beat out of you? So who the fuck would want that position apart from a complete psychopath that was going to abuse the position to the fullest of his ability?
In capitalism you just get fired or demoted and your reputation is destroyed but at least you're not on the verge of death.

>>129171501
Lmao, yep that's exactly what I meant with what I said, what I actually said because once again you can't FUCKING READ lmao, is that the only chance for a communist system in the world today with the systems already established foundations and ways of getting into power, would be to ride the wave of capitalism to the point of realizing that they had the opportunity to start a country using their built empire to create a sustainable self reliant society you insufferable idiot.

>>129168724
LOL fucking perfect.

>>129171819
You obviously have the same problem of your friend in that you are completely loony tunes level dumb, and can't read.

>>129171879
I made my case, once again it is proven that you just cant fucking discuss with a communist
You are a Retard, and you have proven this throughout your Posts. Im not really gonna bother with you anymore, have fun with your failed ideology

File: zhe man.jpg (7KB, 201x251px) Image search: [Google]

7KB, 201x251px

>>129168724
And like allways: Best Post

File: IMG_0009.jpg (186KB, 900x1200px) Image search: [Google]

186KB, 900x1200px

>>129158915
/nsg/ reporting in
You're a faggot and saged

>>129172084
Once again you can't fucking READ god damn. Lmao, It's not my ideology, I am simply arguing that it is a possible system, just as is a capitalist society not built on the backs of 1/3 of the world.

>>129171826
I don't intend that it be the first resort, silly. The point is that you would need to answer for your actions to the people who in a republican system might be called the constitutency, to a greater degree than one might otherwise, if only because one would be rotated right back around into the workers' pool and will have to work alongside them again. Most of this administration would be fairly mechanical in practice, anyway.
>In capitalism you just get fired or demoted and your reputation is destroyed but at least you're not on the verge of death.
Maybe that's why the executive level of companies today is so fucked up: a lack of meaningful and effective recourse and exclusion..

>>129172366
> not my ideology
You DO realize people can just highlight your posts, right? You can't even lie consistently.

free helicopter ride for you and other commiefags

>>129172712
You do realize that I said very early in a post that I'm a libertarian, and mentioned multiple times in post that it's not my chosen ideology? Learn to read faggot.

>>129164756
Read Faggot.

>>129172814
Yeah, and you proceeded to say things LITERALLY no libertarian would say. Once again, you're not fooling anyone.

File: IMG_0005.jpg (68KB, 470x592px) Image search: [Google]

68KB, 470x592px

>>129169312
>26 posts by this id
Fuck you faggot

>>129170339
Read the second line faggot.

>>129172915
No it's that I can actually comprehend ideas that are not my own chosen ideology. Now fuck off.

>>129173154
Nah mate, as long as you bait, I shitpost. That's how it works.

File: 1496980953357.jpg (23KB, 480x360px) Image search: [Google]

23KB, 480x360px

>>129158915
>>129159433
>This is the best that the Communist "Revolutionaries" have on /pol/

>>129173208
Baiting would imply that I was speaking above my head to try and get a response out of your dumb ass, speaking truth and you getting upset over the fact that systems you don't like would work if set up correctly isn't my problem dickhead.

>>129161962
Technically it lost

>>129173318
Once again, no libertarian agrees with that. A dumb child could figure that out.

>>129173457
Once again, you are speaking as if I should fall in line with an arbitrary set of values set out by the allegory of the cave's version of a Libertarian. I have my own ideological system I would introduce if I was to have the opportunity the founding fathers did so many years ago. However, at this point, I do not, and as long as we have a topic on the merit of systems. I will argue that they all have their own merit, it's more about choosing your preference.

>>129173625
I'm sure many people's preferences include "forced redistribution of wealth". I'm also sure a libertarian would be kind of flexible on what private property means. You're so convincing.

communism is a system before robots and so, how it deal with an incoming automation revolution? communism state everyone work, but how it work after revolution? Im not smart enough to figure out, revive marx and ask.

>>129173849
BUT WHO WAS PHONE

>>129173821
Lmao, I never argued I want a forced redistribution of wealth, you can do that highlight shit again you were wrong about and read through my post. Name one time I argued for that.

>>129173916
>you can do that highlight shit again you were wrong about and read through my post.
That wasn't English.
Good job ignoring the other part tho. You'll be a fine LARPer yet.

>>129173916
Once again when arguing with someone that has no idea what the fuck they are talking about they will usually try and push the narrative in the direction they want to win the argument instead of using an argument of what the person is presenting. Straw man's are easy, substance is hard.

>>129173995
>>129174062
>Good job ignoring the other part tho.
>they will usually try and push the narrative in the direction they want to win

Hmm.

>>129173995
It was so ridiculous I chose to ignore it however, I'll work with you. I also never mentioned anything about private property however, while we are on the topic. I am a left libertarian, fuck the business, fuck the government. The only point of the government should be to make sure that it's weakest can survive and stay out of their lives otherwise, and the businesses are not people so they do not get the benefits of being libertarian and should be forced under the scope of a very limited in their power government. The people being the only meaningfully free part of your society should be the only thing that matters.

>>129171809
>"ahh yez goy instead of revolting against my tribe and our international finance system responsible for most of the worlds problems, become social mmm democrats. Remember to take in your 100k monthly migrants and let us take care of your money kbai"

>>129174456
>The only point of the government should be to make sure that it's weakest can survive and stay out of their lives otherwise
And how is that not the opposite of every experiment with communism, ever?

Lytenko was a communist biologist. Since science didn't line up with communist theory they just decided to change science to be in line with communism.

Amazingly plants didn't cooperate with each other and with humans like good communists and millions of people died from Poland to China.

Communists actually believed this garbage.

>>129174700
Social Democrats also have merit as a system. Considering the United States is the number one country in the world riding a quasi social democratic system. That our right wing friends are desperate to destroy, for reasons I haven't quite comprehended yet. Maybe a belief that a globalist society hurts their chances of keeping power when someone more powerful than them gets to take over maybe?

>>129168724
Yes!

>>129158915
Gommradez lelz start gommunizm reboludion ! :DDDD
from now we wil be forcing beoble to gibz :DDDDDD
and if they wond gib uz we will kill dem :DDDD
>>129173357
technically if communism wins all is lost

>>129174912
Because you dumb ass piece of shit, as i've told you I'm not communist but can argue it's merit because it's truthfully their if you opened your pea brained mind to ideas that you don't like. Once again the countries that have chosen to implement socialism and communism have all done so with the wrong intentions from the onset. Plus the fact that in those society's that wanted a reset did so by murdering innocent people something a true communist wouldn't do.

>>129158915
Comunista de mierda, acabarás en una fosa común como el resto de tus "camaradas" después de la guerra civil.

>>129175316
>no true communist
>let me just ignore the question
Yeah man, you're like, TOTALLY not LARPing here.

>>129175274
Socialism=/=Communism They are not the same system.

>>129175439
Yep take the one line at the end and completely ignore the fact I answered your question in the first line. Fuck off. lmao I'm the one larping here you right man.

>>129175316
communism is a wrong intention itself
>>129175474
of course they are
the only difference between them is that communist lie murder and steal and socialists lie and steal

fucking commies...

>>129175687
So how is that different from capitalist?

>>129175687
Because I'm pretty sure, capitalist do all of the things you listed communist and socialist do.

>>129175762
if capitalist lie and steal he goes to jail
if socialist lie and steal he rises in the ranks

Fuck off to /leftypol/

>>129175885
In what world do elite people in capitalist societies go to jail from stealing money from others? That's how they make their money is stepping on the back of other's stealing their earning potential. Don't get me started on all the times the Banks have stolen from people.

>>129175316
>Because you dumb ass piece of shit, as i've told you I'm not communist but can argue it's merit because it's truthfully their if you opened your pea brained mind to ideas that you don't like.
This one mate? How does it answer this:
>>The only point of the government should be to make sure that it's weakest can survive and stay out of their lives otherwise
>And how is that not the opposite of every experiment with communism, ever?

Because it fucking doesn't. You either agree with your line, or the communist's version of government. You didn't answer, you ignored the contradiction, and proceeded to sperg out. Point is, if you were a libertarian, you wouldn't argue for these ideas, because it would clash with your CORE FUCKING VALUES. Because they wouldn't hold merit to you, you stupid fuck.
Your only line of defense was the no true scotsman, so I decided to answer to that, instead of the obvious nonsense. Are you at least a shill? As in, do you get payed for this, or are you LARPing in your free time? Wait, wait. It's for the greater good of the People, isn't it?

>>129174985
>merit system
>hurts their chances of keeping power when someone more powerful than them takes over

What in thee fuck do you mean by this? There isn't any damn merit system in US politics, Democrats vote for whatever Jew or incapable token minority who shares their ethnicity with the urban populace that happens to be running and Republicans vote for whichever biblethumping whackjob that hasn't been caught for adultery this year.

Also whenever these niggers, kikes, or pinkos take over they simply ruin what used to be there and run whites out of the population centers. Its not so much of an insecure fear(cute projection btw) that they'll do better as knowledge they'll do worse and ruin our lives.

https://imgur.com/a/HYmrA

>this is the communist mindset

>>129176163
That wasn't even me you ass. lmao.

File: leftypol idiot.jpg (22KB, 480x640px) Image search: [Google]

22KB, 480x640px

https://imgur.com/a/AnqjS

>mfw i make another commie thread on 4/pol/

>>129176220
Hey dumb cunt I never argued there was a merit system. I said there was merit to the system. What is with Pol and not being able to read? I was simply arguing if you could comprehend anything outside of stroking your own extremist dick, was that the anti-globalist are afraid that they will lose their command on their country.

>>129176334
lol, again
IDs, faggot

>>129176131
>flag
you mean your central bank that is a private institution guarded and aided by GOVERMENT ?

if capitalist has aid from government he is not capitalist anymore he is now a member of a leading party because he literally sponsors them by giving them part of money in exchange of special market privileges
but if capitalist can have market privileges he is not living in capitalism anymore because the whole idea behind capitalism is based on ideas and freedom to implement them no concessions and control of market

>>129176163
I agree with whatever line of the world I see fit based on my own perception. I don't fit an allegory of the cave's version of anything, as neither should you. As core values aren't chosen by someone else telling you what they should be. You should take bits and pieces from all systems and create your own, however, while we are arguing the merit of systems that are 100% the chosen discipline I can argue for or against it, depending on the question and suggestion provided. Like I told you, just because I have my own vision doesn't mean I need it to be the only one we follow. I'm not an authoritarian dickhead like yourself.

>>129176265
>Leftypol Discord
Even most people on /leftypol/ agree that server is dogshit and inhabited by massive faggots.

>>129167643
It was Op. Not me you dumb ass, once again you can't even keep up with what is going on in this thread, let alone your mind. This is twice you couldn't recall, so you just made shit up. It's literally a scroll away.

File: 1481243004256.jpg (103KB, 786x960px) Image search: [Google]

103KB, 786x960px

>>129174959

Soviet Union kicked off Lysenko after Stalin death, it learned from it's mistakes and throw it to the rubbish bin of pseudoscience, the superstition of calling things bourgeois science for no reason disappeared.

>>129176803
So what you are arguing is that there is no purely capitalist society just as there is no purely communist society? I think we have an agreement here!

>>129176831
You REALLY don't get it, do you?
You're not born a libertarian, only to heroicly reject the values society says a libertarian should hold. That's not how this shit works. It's a label we use to identify people holding certain values. If you don't fit the basic values, then the label doesn't fit you. If you can comfortably say all this shit you just said, you're clearly not a libertarian, simple as that.

File: 14907417182690.jpg (161KB, 569x800px) Image search: [Google]

161KB, 569x800px

>>129175358

Bring it on. I live to see the bourgeoisie liquidated free the workers and establish the dictatorship of the proletariat.

>>129177277
I use labels as it fits the ridiculous identity politics that Pol thrives on. Words are simplistic and hold us back from the true ideas that they are supposed to represent.

>>129176587
>>129176831
>You should take bits and pieces from all systems and create your own
it's a most retarded idea ever
some ideas work and some not because the laws of free market are shaping political reality
and the whole difficulty is to take these witch works and trash those who does not
gommunizm :DDD does exact opposite: it takes weirdest and most inhumane shit and puts it together to create a machine that literally destroys everything that is pure and good
sage
>>129177204
of course there is purely gommunizd:DDD society stalin's Soviet union was a perfect example, mao's china, and of course today's venezuela and north korea, Cuba is a perfect example and of course third reich and european union
amurica is also comfy gomunist :DDD country
so no we don't agree

>>129177277
You also don't get to choose what I identify as. As the systems I would introduce actually do fall under the Left Libertarian political spectrum. I can argue the merit and value in all the way across the political spectrum even if I don't totally agree with them. It's called being well versed. You should try it some time.

>>129177204
now we argue how shit communist society always end up being no matter what form and how pure it is

>>129158915
Is there any feisable community of leftists on the internet? I visited leftypol but it doesnt seem too active, not as pol here certainly

>>129177544
No it's called compromise. Try it some time.

File: 079e73f431a8424e782175df9f57d2eee450b22802a93111b92a51af589b85fe.jpg (99KB, 653x1200px) Image search: [Google]

99KB, 653x1200px

>>129177645

did you visit the .pl website or the .net? the .pl one is a decoy for low intelligence drumpfkins

>>129177645
The problem with getting a leftypol is that it would basically be ad hominem attacking a group of people too stupid to understand they've been swindled. It would be like making fun of retarded children it's just not funny most of the time. Too serious for it's own good, it's part of why most left leaning people tend to stick to memes and serial depression they have no means of arguing with children that have adult bodies.

>>129177434
Is that your way of saying "I'm not a libertarian, but decided to use the label ITT for purposes other then easy and mostly correct identification of my opinions"?
>>129177569
Oh, well clearly, it's not.

>You also don't get to choose what I identify as
No, but I can call out if you identifying as something doesn't make fucking sense.
dick is not female
your opinions are not libertarian

>>129177544
Am I an honorable mention or something?

>>129177891
Both of them and realized that one with snoop dog is the real one, even discussed Rojava on .net but not many posters are there. Possibly because it was a middle of the night lol

>>129178051
No it's saying that you are too conceited and ego driven to admit, that you have been arguing silly straw man's for the past two hours. Once again be well versed my friend, it will help you. My opinions don't represent what I'm arguing also. This is a communist thread, and I am arguing in support that they can have whatever system they choose as there is merit to them, as I'm sure there is merit to whatever system you support. The difference is I'm not the one arguing that it wouldn't work which you are with nothing but countries that once again chose systems to best oppress their people instead of using them for good.

>>129177396
You won't see shit. Best you'll see is societal collapse and you commie tards are going to get fucked really hard if that happens. The only reason you worthless losers exist is because daddy state hands you gibs.

>>129177592
no the point is more pure gummunizm :DDD= faster degradation
>>129177673
a compromise is the most retarded thing you can do in SERIOUS politics
>gommunism :DDD
oh right
>>129178051
Yess \:D/ !
(actually no i just miss clicked but i don't want to make you sad :( )

>>129178476
A compromise is the only reasonable solution to our predicaments. If you choose to believe that or not, it's up to you.

>>129158915
Man must prove the truth — i.e. the reality and power, the this-sidedness of his thinking in practice. - Karl Marx

The practice displayed that revolution can happen only in undeveloped countries, when people are so oppressed than they ready to commit revolutionary acts. In wel developed countires revolution is not happens bacause people have something to loose. Workers make their choice between revolution and salary raise.

The practice also displayed that the capitalist reaction will be so fierce that a single county have zero chances to survive that reaction (e.g. Chilie). Even the Socialist block that had less industiral power (not drammaticalyy les, just less) didn't make it. The contradicitions that was inherited by socialism from capitalism did their job and Socailsit block has lost the Cold War.

Marxism-Leninisn need to review the event happend afetr 1917 till now and using the power of Dialectical Materialism to develop new economic theory that will explain the failures of past and give the roadmap to the future.

Without it Marxism-Leninism discussions is pure scholastics.

>>129178852
I can agree with that completely well done.

File: 1486705708149.jpg (20KB, 281x395px) Image search: [Google]

20KB, 281x395px

>>129158915
it is recommended that you jump in a volcano

>>129179270
It is recommended that you stop hating ideas blindly.

File: cf40f3123e4460399219edf81ff1ebfb.jpg (52KB, 371x480px) Image search: [Google]

52KB, 371x480px

>>129179270
Nah nibba we good.

>>129178476
yeah, when we have a road that splits into two and has a mountain between them going left or right is stupid
let's make a gombromize here :DDD
what could possibly go wrong ?
>>129178852
>Undeveloped countries
whole west has communist goverment and economy
they first tested comunism on poles and russians so they can use it's improved version on western countries

and no a capitalist that is alredy wealthy does not want capitalism because this would mean new competition every day
Chile was an "accident" because generals weren't pacified and replaced in time

marxism leninism alredy revieved their ways and now are walking a patch presented by Rudi Dutschke and is now killing europe and america
>>129179270
/thread
>>129179351
we hate communism because it caused over 100 milions deaths trough starvation and repressions

>>129179351

Not blind, I can see the 120 million corpses quite clearly, thank you.

>>129179682
I can see the millions capitalist capitalist have let die in their quest for money as well. Nothing changes from system to system. You have just chosen an evil you like.

>>129158915
discuss: ban private property on means of production to build comminusm is like decriminalizing rape to build love between people.

The laws protecting private property on means of production is the result of thousands of years of humanity and society realtions development. They are fairly accurate reflections of the current state of the humanity. Simple change of the laws can only reflect the real change in technical, social and psycological speres, and only then they will be step forward and can be considered revolutionary practice. Otherwise Such measures will trigger reaction from current social and economic realations and will not magicaly change them.

>>129178383
Dude. I pointed out your no true scotsman already. There is literally no "real" communist force out there, according to your standards. Yet to their standards, they are real, and the ARE good. Because in their mind, they did and do all that shit because they know better.
And "they can have whatever system they choose" kinda doesn't apply thanks to the above. They don't choose shit, and you know that very fucking well.
Also, if you were purely arguing that people have the right to choose it, you wouldn't be actually arguing for the ideas themselves. But you do. Meaning you don't agree with their opposites. Meaning you're not a libertarian, however strong you keep insisting you are.

>>129178476
IS ALRITE :D U DONT MADE ME SAD XDDDD

>>129178852

We at leftypol have started a group of research on soviet cybernetics, a technological tool that has the potential of making the communist society a reality gradually by computerized planned economy. The soviet union (the military) never implemented it in the planned economy sadly and could potentially have saved the union from collapse by more efficiently planning the whole economy (the all-state automated system). Marxism-Leninism and it's vanguard party strategy can be updated and with the tools of the 21th century is what will let us take over the world by subversive tactics using the tools the capitalists sold us against them. Imagine a system that doesn't allow corruption and guides society to communism where production is decided collectively, where the system is designed to dissolve the state as society has been educated and transformed in it's totality.

>>129179912
and here you can see a based Russian in his natural environment
if you give him vodka he will teach you how to beat a bear with your hand and legs tied behind you
>soviet cybernetics
it's hard to make CPU from vodka leafs and bones of killed opposition but keep trying
or no

File: landscape-alex-jones-head.jpg (79KB, 980x490px) Image search: [Google]

79KB, 980x490px

>>129180217
I KNEW IT!

File: 1493977011894.png (34KB, 1000x1000px) Image search: [Google]

34KB, 1000x1000px

>>129179423
anpi fag detected

>>129179960
>2
Ah, however, we are talking about the implementation across new areas'. I never was referring to China or any other communist system implemented at this current time.

Also, I'm not arguing for the idea's presented I'm arguing against their disparaging as useless. Major difference, that I'm not sure that you quite get, as you've been making the same argument outside of your strawmans for an hour. I am a libertarian in the political sense, as I would be as a candidate. However, if I was to run under a communist ticket, I'd argue the same, and as long as I wasn't dealing with dumb fucks that use past extremely flawed examples by groups of people who had no business attempting it without the proper material and resources. I might be able to debate with them, and come to a 'compromise' on what we should do to best help the people in the system provided.

>>129180415
see
>>129180415

>>129179444
You will probably mock me but communism were never built. There were many failures during attempts to build it.

The thing that we saw was socialism. And if you really interested you should know that socalism do not solve capitalism problems it actually brings them upfront to be solved. No success so far.

Capitalism does not imply the anti-monopoly actions and without direct interference actually goes to competition eliminating monopolies dictate.

And no - importing religious aggressive foreigners to oppress native citizens and creating laws to prevent any resistance to such offense is not Marxism-Leninism.

>>129180523
This is fucking gold.
See, if you WERE a libertarian, this sentence:
> if I was to run under a communist ticket
could only be part of a joke.

>>129180415
I have a feeling that you not sober enough.

Do you mind to explain what soviet cybernetics do you mean?

>>129180637
We have found some one else that isn't a complete idiot on Pol. Once again well done.

>>129180747
My god you are dumb, I said if I was to run under a libertarian ticket, I then said If I was to however be running under a communist ticket IN A HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION IN WHICH THAT WAS THE CHOICE PRESENTED TO ME. I would do just as well. Good job completely ignoring the rest of my post dick.

>>129180217
As true Marxist-Leninists we should always check our imagination with practice. Cybersyn was only attempt to use tech in planned ecomonic and all it did was finding some streikbrechers during Drivers strike in Chilie and organize some food delivery to capital.

So far we have many projects that sometimes sounds utopistic, but in practice in reality of economical and social relations there is no sign of conditions to revolutionary change.

>>129180844
Thanks for kind words, mate.

>>129180781
sorry but i miss clicked again
and then again
cuz i am learning c++ in background and i was reffering to
>>129180217
who typed about soviet cybernetics
>>129180637
anyway if THAT was not yet a communism i do not want to see a REAL perfect communism
capitalism can't imply anti monopoly laws because those kind of laws will not work
it would be like prohibition agin
the only way goverment can preserve capitalism is to not interfere with market
>And no - importing religious aggressive foreigners to oppress native citizens and creating laws to prevent any resistance to such offense is not Marxism-Leninism.
of course it is the whole idea of marxists is to divide people into smaller groups and on many fields marxists need chaos because people won't be able to unite into force that could abolish them
see great britain instead of deporting mudslims they implement more laws that will CONTROLL CIVILIANS - this is essence of gommunizm
>>129180781
i am not drunk :^(
>>129181160
>no sign of conditions to revolutionary change.
because it alredy happend see rudi dutschke

>>129180942
> IN A HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION IN WHICH THAT WAS THE CHOICE PRESENTED TO ME
And you'd take it. So, best case scenario, you're willing to adopt any fucking ideology as long as it suits your needs. Is that why you're shilling communism on /pol/?

>>129181555
You really have a mental disorder don't you? I'm capable and well versed in a variety of different field and studies, as well as in economic and political systems. Ignoring the taboo and admitting that some systems are better at certain things than others isn't shilling it's called being honest.

If I was doing it to fit my needs I would be gaining something from this, and I'm actually losing brain cells explaining to you over and over what you cannot comprehend so I think I'm done replying to your limp dick arguments that only choose one line from each of my post. Good day.

>>129181160

Indeed, we must run as much simulation as we can, try all the ideas, see what works and what doesn't, this way we are selecting the optimal system that will be at the service of communism one day.

The conditions for a revolution will eventually come when the bourgeoisie in its infinite addiction for capital make grave mistakes that destabilize the status-quo they have fabricated.

File: IMG_3267.png (136KB, 500x547px) Image search: [Google]

136KB, 500x547px

>>129158915
Fuck off commie faggots

>>129181769
Good point. Why were you replying so diligently to begin with? It's almost as if you had some sort of stake in this.

>>129181473
Studying C++ and drinking vodka is not really different processes! Do not try both! :)

Of course if path to build something shows so many failures and negative side-effect then there is no point to continue. It's time sit down and review what is wrong.

chaos and destructive actions were required to spark revolution. Now when revolution in well-developed counties didn't happen, it's no longer valid tool of Marxist.

>>129181969
Another man with some sense. Glad to have you in the thread.

File: 1478616447727.png (755KB, 1000x1000px) Image search: [Google]

755KB, 1000x1000px

Communists are braindead or liars

>lets redistribute wealth
>there will only be one class haha

They're right except no communist country has ever dismantled the party elite and every major communist country has gone on to implement brutal dictatorships to preserve the party elite

No communist can debate this argument, either they lie or resort to hypotheticals in which human nature doesn't exist. If any can even reply it will be one of the two, with maybe a half-hearted fake acceptance of the truth followed by lying or resorting to hypotheticals.

Of course this doesn't make capitalism or democracy any better but it's better to say that now before silly gommies think an appropriate response involves attacking other systems of governance in an attempt to smooth over their cognitive dissonance.

File: 1496994964368.gif (82KB, 300x200px) Image search: [Google]

82KB, 300x200px

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgLyBiJlmZc

>>129182136
I've made 54 post in this thread, explaining my view points and personally explaining to you what you cannot comprehend for the past 20 or so. I'm done with that. However, since this is more about the reason I posted if you asked. So I replied simple as that. My stake is one of those core values you were so easy to disparage from me.

Be open minded and willing to argue for and against anything especially when the debate and the Right wing faggotry of /pol/ get upset when the topic is discussed. That's just fun isn't it?

>>129181969
It still probable that development of the technology and robotics will change the world so much that today's bourgeoisie will actually need collective property on means of production.

What I don't think is that forcing people to what we believe is next step in development is good idea.

>>129182612
Force is the key word. Forcing someone to do anything is a problem which is the problem with capitalism, socialism, and communism. They soft force everyone into playing by their rules.

>>129182474
>Be open minded and willing to argue for and against anything
That implies arguing for things you don't agree with. If that's the case, just say so. FYI, that means admitting you don't actually agree with them.
The alternative is admitting that you agree with the things you argued for. Meaning you're not a libertarian, but a communist.
Which is it, mate?

Or, you could simply be a shill, in which case, just say yes or no: Do you actually have to reply to every post that insinuates you're a shill?

>>129181769
and that's why you are ignoring fact that left ideology and economical systems alyways ends in disaster
>>129182188
now i know why some devs can't deliver

>It's time sit down and review what is wrong.
it's time to discard anything that does not work and forget about it

to spark a revolution marxists needed only money and they recived it from western bankers and capitalists. They wanted communism because it would ensure their eternal wealth

agin the revolution in developed countries DID happend and to add more to this it is now in full charge to abolish west
look at them, they abolished family, created economical problems, created new "hatespech" stripped church from their original belives took over schools and universities, it all alredy happend
marxists almost won
it's a matter of time now when west falls

File: Delete file.png (91KB, 539x288px) Image search: [Google]

91KB, 539x288px

>>129158915

File: 05e63eeb06e3241812206983d23ac2721b7f5522f30e8c2a7acc026710315784.png (82KB, 487x454px) Image search: [Google]

82KB, 487x454px

>>129182760

>>129182760
The actions of NKVD cannot be called soft. :(

>>129183015
Smash dat yes button boi

>>129182474
>57 posts
>all of those are cryies that capitalists are meanies and we should force gommunizm :DDD on people
>no other arguments present
are you from canada ?

File: 1496830489409.png (122KB, 500x425px) Image search: [Google]

122KB, 500x425px

>>129182380
In fact, the natural endstate of a communist country seems to be abandoning communist ideology while retaining the status of the party elite. It's a convenient ideology to inspire mental gymnastics and in truth it is believable since the real elite e.g. Soros, do fuck up things for the common man,

See China or Russia

It's pretty obvious what communism is when you see what motivates their actions. Never trust lying gommie scum, they're either braindamaged or they're wishful retards who think they can honestly con their way into being some part of the party elite and put themselves above the common person.

>>129183206
"Parliament democracy is bad but direct democracy is totally fine trust me go...i mean comrade."

>>129183411
dunno, but he's TOTALLY a libertarian

>>129182953
Okay fine, since you will not let it go. Let me use your logic against you. Once again I know reading is hard so I will put it in big bold letters for you.

THIS IS AN EXAMPLE IT IS NOT LITERAL.

I am a communist(I'm actually a libertarian just so you don't be an idiot again.), however, Libertarians(Communist would be here too so you get it.) have a very strong system that would work if it was implemented correctly. Keeping the government out of peoples lives instead of using it to implement a system I would more approve of is definitely a feasible governing system.

(END OF EXAMPLE DIP SHIT.)

Do you get it now, or are you still just as fucking stupid?

>>129182380
>either they lie or resort to hypotheticals in which human nature doesn't exist.
Human nature doesn't exist.

>>129158915
All communists deserve cancer

>>129183518
Here we see the communist reply as predicted, by lying or resorting to a fanciful world where human nature doesn't exist.

Like clockwork.

Reply baited and bitten on.

It hurts the evil gommie really deep because it strikes at the very cognitive dissonance that underlies gommie theory. It hurts them and they've chosen the tactic of denial through falsehoods this time.

Absolutely great, lovely playing with you.

>>129183515
>Keeping the government out of peoples lives instead of using it to implement a system I would more approve of is definitely a feasible governing system.
Except no fucking communist would say that. Just as no libertarian would say what you said. Are you a shill btw?

>>129183702
Autism

>>129183554
>are cancer

>>129183515
you don't even know which ideology is which
>>129183518
>Human nature doesn't exist.
if by humans you mean socialists then yes they don't have human nature

>>129183702
Human nature is made up bullshit people use as an excuse so they can be dickheads nothing more nothing less.

File: IMG_3263.jpg (62KB, 500x579px) Image search: [Google]

62KB, 500x579px

>>129183959
>2000 years of catholic theology
Vs.
>faggot supporting a failed political theory

My fucking sides rn...

>>129183761
Except I am a libertarian and I am saying that, so I don't know what you want to hear from me? Lmao guess I've just broken your false stereotype?

>>129182991
>it's time to discard anything that does not work and forget about it
If you just forget - it will happen again. Put it aside and remember it's not work will be more reasonable.

As for putting current EU disaster to marxists - I cannot agree with you here. It is simple trick to use someone as symbol of all problems, and usually it ends in conspiracy theories. Your country still remember the time in Warsaw block, and it's easy for you to put equal sign between anything bad and marxism, I cannot blame you for that, but I cannot share you view as I saw that "anti-communists" may be even worse than most rotten KPSS buerocrat. It's not about banner waving or banner blaming it's about action that affects us.

>>129183821
Yes I didn't minor in political science or anything, I don't know basic politics. Please explain it to me.

>>129183959
that's why gommunists want to break human nature and that's why slaughtering 100 milions of innocents is not considered a bad act
>>129184104
you can't be libertarian and communists as the same time

>>129184104
So you DO have to reply each type? I'm so sorry mate. *ahem* shill *ahem*

>>129184040
The fact you are arguing Theology has any merit in the slightest is the gold in that.

>>129184234
>you can't be libertarian and communists as the same time
Lol, you need to learn your ideologies friendo.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchist_communism

>>129184339
>makes attempt at referencing anarcho-communism
>Complete faggot detected

>>129184234
I've never argued once that I was both. I am simply arguing it has merit as a political system, which you all for the past 30 post have been arguing otherwise for some strange reason.

I've said from the beginning that I'm a libertarian however believe what you like.

>>129184462
Who are you quoting?

>>129184312
Go to sleep Godless commie

>>129184040
Führer was christian

>>129184165
basics can be learned from both marx's lenin's and dutchke's writings aswell as from hayek and miezes
>>129184107
>It is simple trick to use someone as symbol of all problems
just like marxists war with ugly capitalists and reactionists that are to blame for all bad things that are happening ? :D
our anti communies with Wałęsa were the same commies just under other banned so we well know what happend to us and why

File: IMG_3218.jpg (53KB, 720x720px) Image search: [Google]

53KB, 720x720px

>>129184523
You sound like the antifa bitches that come around every now and then. Completely brainless, like you.

>>129184610
...I was being sarcastic.

>>129184694
Mhm. Okay sweetie. Any other very valid points you want to make against me apart from that I "sound" like an antifa?

File: 1478702733630.jpg (169KB, 1000x847px) Image search: [Google]

169KB, 1000x847px

>>129183959
>>129183800
>more denying human nature by ANOTHER gommie, as predicted
>insults from the first gommie who took my bait

if I had known it was this easy to destroy gommies I'd have posted here sooner.

>>129184524
I just might do that, I don't need a false god to keep me safe at night. Oh the christian right is a cancer. That is all. : )

>>129184844
Yeah. Stick with Germany next time, greaseball.

>>129184933
You really believe that human nature isn't a made up excuse just to be a dick to other's? I feel sad for you.

File: merchant2.png (306KB, 1027x1200px) Image search: [Google]

306KB, 1027x1200px

Yes goy, capitalism is bad, don't mind my rich capitalist cousins overseas