wind and solar are gimiky scams, thorium atomic is not

>>129004885

Even if you believe in the climate change hoax, there is no argument against thorium, 0% co2 emissions.

Capitalism would be pretty obsolete if we managed to set up a self-sustaining production line that required no human intervention to produce products or to keep it running.

>>129007058
Lol, nice to see you're not very smart.

You can give 100 men an equal amount of money, equal starting conditions, and equal amounts of equally qualified labor.

It's all about how you manage those resources competitively, not just delivering products, you fucking tard.

>>129007281
** and many would still fail and only some succeed.

>>129007281
>>129007330

Doesn't matter if no human labour is expended.

Automation can be inefficient as fuck, but still cheaper than paying wageslaves.

>>129007629
If you give everyone automated robots to make your products, now instead of everyone using humans as a labor resource, now everyone is using robots as a labor resource.

Robots cost money to buy, maintain, and you have to manage that all in a cost efficient manner. Anything that needs to be done in a cost efficient manner means you're doing it competitively.


This is why socialist businesses fail. Just because you have a business with money being thrown at you doesn't mean you'll now how to structure things

>>129007801
Oh, not to mention buying upgrades that offer faster models

>>129007801

Not if you publicly fund the initial implementation, then allow the machines to maintain the machines.

>>129007058
it's the capitalist's wet dream

>>129007890
>machine accountants
>machine maintenance workers
>machine auditors
>machine bosses who can make ideas and competitive decisions on their own
>machine CEOs who can make ideas and competitive decisions on their own

so year 3000?

>>129004885
We should really be pouring money into R&D for LFTRs for the entire cycle from fuel to handling of all waste products. If we had a perfected high output LFTR design it would be revolutionary.

Though I disagree with you on solar, it still has potential, its just not where it needs to be to be depended on for centralized production. I am entirely in favor of distributed solar voltaics, though that too is desperately in need of massive R&D. We need solutions to energy storage, and lower environment impact panels. Perovskites hold great promise there.

Nuclear+limited solar+geothermal where applicable are the true forms of white power.

>>129008020
>3000
i wouldnt be so hopeful

>>129008020

Doesn't need to be competitive if the product is free.

>>129007976

Only if they own it.

>>129008214
>Doesn't need to be competitive if the product is free.

So year 3000?

inb4 you start advocating shit like gift economies or resource based economies

Try making your mind come back to realistic bounds instead of fantasy land.

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>>129007890
>allow the machines to maintain the machines to maintain the machines to maintain the machines

>>129008214
realistically someone has to own it

and the way things go at the moment, it will be them yes

>>129008477

>yfw we're self maintaining biological machines

>>129008574

anon, they will kill us :(

>>129008645

Good.

>>129008645
Not if they're given a limited amount of power

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>>129008722
and we were the ones trying so hard to create them

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>>129004885
I like the cut of your jib op, great since thread! Not nearly brought up enough, whilst we're talking about science.. I have something disgusting to share

>Pic related

I think it's time to experiment more with alchemy and quite probably magic too, after all, the elites seem to think it's all true. Perhaps they're onto something.

My curiosity bar sits between horrified and curious.

Thorium on the other hand is over due, once one wraps their head around how AC power grids and radiation works - it's self evident that it's the only way forward.

>>129008020
Machine CEOs are not that far away in some areas. It pretty closer than the rest.

Think of IBM Watson.

So yeah, skynet.

>>129008041
LFTR would be evolutionary rather than revolutionary.
Nuclear fusion would be revolutionary, sad thing is that most public funding goes to trash tier Tokamaks, instead of other promising designs especially those that offer the possibility aneutronic fusion like the polywell.

Tokamaks would maybe produce energy at the same cost as coal, but other designs could offer energy at the 1/10 or 1/100 scale price compared to coal.

>>129008041
there is nothing wrong with wind either on a fundamental level, some people have little wind wheels on their cabin, and it essentially produces free electricity
of course there needs to be frequent wind to make it worthwhile.

the death of nuclear power is fucking sad
>muh chernobyl muh fukushima
dont trust retarded commies with shitty reactors and dont build nuke plants in tsunamiville and youre set

>>129008041
If you're still here, have a look at how power grids work on YouTube, it's fascinating. Essentially the unused power turns into heat in the lines, so power is constantly being wasted.

This is why batteries aren't a grid sized solution, because the grid must always be kept at a specific voltage. If the power isn't used, the lines heat up and the energy is lost.

So it requires a constant AC input, which is what comes off of the thorium generator/reactor. Solar and batteries are DC systems, (lithium ion, lithium polymer, lead cell)

Converting from DC to AC costs electricity and if the grid must always being receiving x amount of electricity, the batteries will go flat really fast.

If that makes sense..

>>129009615
nuclear is generally dangerous. As soon as something goes wrong you get atomic spill everywhere. Many accidents don't really generate headlines because they're just "minor mishaps". But all conventional nuke plants generate toxic waste and the only solution the industry has to offer at the moment is "bury it in the ground"

Back when /pol/ was /new/, I remember when LFTRs were first being spouted as truly the energy of the future. High efficiency, low emission nuclear power without risk of nuclear fallout. I remember all the image macros and reading all about the theory and requests for billions of dollars.

10+ years later, where are we now? Who has made the investments necessary for working prototypes? Wheres the proof it works? Someone spoon-feed me updates, of else I'm left to assume that Thorium is a meme.

>>129010401
As a concept, a working concept mind you, LFTRs work. The only caveat is whether or not the system can be scaled to worthwhile output levels.

No one in the US is really investing in nuclear because of the environmentalists and alarmists who think everything is an impending disaster. No one in the US is taking Thorium seriously. India and China have been investing in various domestic projects of their own however.

>>129010401
thorium is a meme to receive funding perpetuated by different nuclear researchers, most prominently flibe energy

people in the nuclear industry never expected it to go mainstream anytime soon. They've always said it has problems for practical use, for example corrosion from the salt...

>>129008477
As long as you have a system redundancy of at least 3 self-maintaining, multi-duty robots, you should be fine. Bot C can repair Bot A to help repair Bot B. That's with a hypothetical 66% failure rate, which is unacceptable by any engineering standards. Pretty simple logic, desu.

>>129010875
>corrosion from the salt

>What is Hastelloy-N?

Are you actually retarded?

>>129011008
yeah it's true you can have this if you really wanted to. It would be really expensive though, and it wouldn't adapt to improvements in the production process


It's also not really worth it, you can already achieve so much automation without machines repairing machines - volkswagen factory in Tennesee as an example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5the3GccnP0

>>129006605
While I'm also pro-nuclear, it's not meaningful to say nuclear, or really any energy source, has 0 co2 emission. To get a truthful and relevant metric, one must also take into account emissions from plant construction and demolition and also fuel mining, processing and transportation. This is true for renewables too.

>>129011585

you can read about all the problems here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_fluoride_thorium_reactor#Disadvantages

>>129007058
More reason why Capitalism will never be obsolete. Machinery/Technology that requires no human intervention is impossible.

>>129007629
Automation still requires employees to perform maintenance, manage finances, manage marketing of products, observing and complying with regulations, Janitorial work, etc. There is no magic factory that makes it so people don't have to work. It merely takes money away from the losers who are too dumb to do anything but work factory jobs. In reality, most manufacturing jobs in the first world are practically automated at this point (except niche products), so the only thing automation will do is cause chinks to lose any economic influence in the west.

There are many fields that will still require human labor even when automation is in effect. For example, many farming jobs for fruits/vegetables that you may never be able to use machines (unless you want to damage the produce). Even more, these manufactured products via automation still need to be sold. You'll still need to buy/rent a building, furnish and maintain it (requiring human labor), have a way to interact with customers in the store (even if people were not required for this, the computers that would do this require human oversight--for many products, you want a skilled saleman anyways), guarding the merchandise, etc.

There is also no magic machinery that will pop up and replace humans altogether. The reason automation is focused on is because ""completely"" automated manufacturing is one of the few things possible in the near future. The magical AI robots that will replace human labor entirely, are probably a long way off, even if possible. It's likely that they would require quantum computing to properly function, which may not even be a possible feat, let alone dozens of years of programming research to figure out how to make the technology do what desired.

>>129013102

>repeatedly state the entire loop is closed and the products are free
>hurr u gota pay da worker

>>129007890
A machine that makes another machine is still as vulnerable to outside events as a human company makinh a machine