Smuggy thread

>>128975538
No.
Reported

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>>128976105
t. you

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>>128976194

>>128976194
i wouldn't wish being sam hyde on anyone

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>>128975538

>>128976271
Truly our greatest ally!

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HURRRRRR DURRRR
IM FUCKING RETARDED LMAO

>>128976105
This one's kind of retarded.

Christian: We call God that which creates all things and sustains them in being.
Atheist: lel then what created God?
Christian: God is, by definition, uncreated, holding all things in being. *creatio continua*
Atheist: but what created God?
Christian: Well, God isn't a thing among other things, but, as Augustine and Aquinas and all the great teachers taught, being itself, or to-be itself (Cf. Exodus 3:14)
Atheist: lel but what created God
Christian: I don't think we're getting anywhere.
Atheist: THEISTS BTFO

>>128976597
see
>>128976231

you stupid fucking subhuman

>>128976194
>>128976597

>triggered christcucks

Keep sucking Aquinas' cock, faggots. You're making WLC proud.

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contributing

>>128976483
>only 3 nations aren't part of the Paris agreement

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>>128976800

>>128976483

Then fucking leave us alone, kike. Oh wait, you're a fucking parasite that can never abandon its host.

>>128976597
You forgot the part where the theist insists something can't come from nothing.

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>>128976800
hi

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>>128976850
who was talking about the paris agreement?

>>128976880
pic related

>>128976678
>Joo
>calling anyone subhuman

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>>128976588
>>128976744
>>128976800

>>128976678
>subhuman
You're literally a kike.

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>>128976597
yea? then why does the universe itself need a creator?

check mate nigger

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>>128976991
hnng

>>128976859
>>128976918
>>128976961
>>128977027
Stay mad you microdicked faggot

>>128977078
An atheist one apparently, which makes him a kikuck.

ITT: Shlomo in the process of making it go from 109 to 110.

>>128976961
>>128977027
Is she ok?

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>>128977168
>>128977078
there is literally no entity living on earth which is more cucked than Cristcucks.

lmao

>>128976597

You forgot the part where God impregnated a jewish woman to become his own father so he could die for the sins of humanity to allow himself to forgive humanity for their sins. Or the talking snake.

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>>128976597
Athiest: So something can come from nothing? For instance, God.
Christian: No. God has been and always will be.
Athiest: So something can have existence without a creator?
Christian: N-no! Everything has to be created!
Athiest: So who created God?
Christian: GOD WASN'T CREATED. IS AND ALWAYS WILL BE! *begins praying to self hysterically*
Athiest: So things don't have to have a creator to exist. Like say, everything?
Christian: *PRAYING INTENSIFIES*

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>>128977168
>worships a dead jew on a stick
>he's the jewcuck

my sides

>highlighting hypocrisy of the right is impossible so I'm just going to make some low energy comics attacking the people rather than ideology

You shills suck at this. Smuggies only work when they highlight retardness which the left has an oversupply of

>>128977240
It's from a movie.

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>>128977432
christcucks are known to be incredibly dumb and brainwashed

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>>128976991
This is the best one

>>128977282
Don't insult your people with that image.

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>>128977555

>god told me to cut off my foreskin
>jews unironically think they are god

>>128977412
>thinks God is a being
Modern atheists are as retarded as Khrushchev.

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>>128977726

at this point Harry fucking Potter is more plausible than god, sub IQ nigger

>>128977712
>the bible names a jew as god

really takes my noggin' for a joggin'

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>>128976271

>>128977432
>Be a joo
>And an atheist
Sad af

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>>128977881
this is sadder

>>128977282
The goyim don't have a clue.

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>>128977726
So you're saying God doesn't exist?

If God does exist, then God is an existence.
If God doesn't exist, then God isn't an existence.

The universe is an existence.

If God, an existence, can exist without a creator, it would logically follow that the universe, also being an existence can exist without a creator as well.

Of course, we have to play semantics for an hour to get to this point of the discussion in the first place, huh?

>>128976859
did he died?

>>128977831
I don't get this picture? It's supposed to make religious people feel silly, but if religious people already agree god is omnipotent then he can do this fine?

>>128977954
Nah, being a Jewish atheist is worse. Especially one that exclusively butthurt at Christianity for some weird reason.

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>>128977881
I'm not the kike, faggot. Check flag.

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>>128977954

>>128978142
nice proxxy, merchant.

>>128977831
Israelis aren't welcome here. Your nation is made up and has no right to exist. Kike.

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>>128976271
It's true and you know it.

>>128978147
>He thinks da joos can be redpilled
Sure thing buddy.

>>128976597
I get you Anon. Ignore the morons who only bought The God Delusion for their coffee tables.

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>>128978147
If christ was the son of God...
Does it mean that God is Jewish?

>>128976649
I like you.

>>128978142
Of course you're not, Esau.

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>>128977282
Well now that you a Jew hate Christianity, im even happier being a christian!

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>>128978245

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>>128978232
nigger, your abomination of a nation is a global joke, ridiculed even on /pol where most posters are unironically shartlets. heheheh

>>128978334
The Abrahamic god is unsurprisingly, a kike.

They'll try to mince words and call them "Isrealites", but that's just an older word for jew.

>>128978088
>implying god is a noun
you have no point lol, its like me saying "if air is so solid then how come we can walk through it, checkmate"

>>128978334
Wait you know it takes two people to make a kid right?

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>>128978334
Exodus 3:14
God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM"; and He said, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"

God in essence is one and God is not a jew but the ground of being. The Son has always existed but became incarnate as Jesus Christ at a particular point in history.

>>128978598
you must be older than 18 to post here.

Side note - if you're shilling for the bible, at least learn it dumb faggot.


>>128978745
see>>128976231

Quoting a shithole doesn't make it right, subhuman monkey.

>>128978088
Read some theology. Or watch some Fr. Barron videos if you can't read.

>>128978829
Then please Jew, please enlighten me.

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>>128978591
>implying god is a noun
>implying god isn't a noun
So God's existence only makes sense when you completely throw out language conventions? Hey, that's pretty cool. Start sending me your telepathic signal of God's completely logical and necessary existence. No words though, because then God might be a noun and your argument falls apart.

oh btw god is a spook anyway so none of this conversation matters.

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>>128978829
not an argument

>>128978979
The kike is either shilling or completely retarded. He's also a kike. In any of these cases, he's best ignored.

>>128979024
>spook
Good Lord, there are fucking Stirnerites here.

>>128978979
read the bible

>>128979041
it is though, you are quoting the very thing which you are defending it's a conflict of interest, not that your thick fucking skull could comprehend the concept.

>>128979082
cheers mate

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>>128978831
So does God exist?

You've read theology presumably for years, this should be an easy question for you to answer.

All you're telling me is your logic doesn't hold up without years of reading books trying to obtain the proper level of cognitive dissonance.

>>128979024
>Muh spooks
Sternerweenies are so cringe worthy.

>>128979229
>you are quoting the very thing which you are defending

You seem to be getting a little mixed up there, champ. You were implying that Christian theology entails God being jewish. I showed you how you're wrong citing Christian theology. A distinction is drawn between personhood and essence so Jesus is a man but is distinct from the Holy Spirit and the Father who are also one in essence with God. So your attempt at a burn is really just an example of your ignorance of orthodox Christian beliefs.

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>>128975538

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>>128979280
“To speak of “God” properly, then…is to speak of the one infinite source of all that is: eternal, omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, uncreated, uncaused, perfectly transcendent of all things and for that very reason absolutely immanent to all things. God so understood is not something posed over against the universe, in addition to it, nor is he the universe itself. He is not a “being” [...] he is not one more object in the inventory of things that are, or any sort of discrete object at all. Rather, all things that exist receive their being continuously from him, who is the infinite wellspring of all that is [...] In one sense he is “beyond being,” if by “being” one means the totality of discrete, finite things. In another sense he is “being itself,” in that he is the inexhaustible source of all reality, the absolute upon which the contingent is always utterly dependent, the unity and simplicity that underlies and sustains the diversity of finite and composite things. [...] All the great theistic traditions agree that God, understood in this proper sense, is essentially beyond finite comprehension; hence, much of the language used of him is negative in form and has been reached only by a logical process of abstraction from those qualities of finite reality that make it insufficient to account for its own existence. All agree as well, however, that he can genuinely be known: that is, reasoned toward, intimately encountered, directly experienced with a fullness surpassing mere conceptual comprehension.”

Source: Hart, David Bentley (2013). The Experience of God: Being, Consciousness, Bliss. Yale University Press. p. 41-42

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>>128979227
>>128979282
It's as much of an argument as "God isn't a noun, so any argument you could formulate against the existence of God is grammatically incorrect, so we win!"

Thought I'd throw it out there for some (You)s since we've clearly hit the point where Christcucks have to start frothing from the mouth to keep away logic and reason, anymore productive discussion may very well be impossible.

>>128979082
Probably, but these khazarian edomites need to be put in their place.

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>>128979426
everything you know and everything any religious prick thinks he knows comes from just 1 source.
end of argument
please dont reply to me any more, you are dumb

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>>128979519
>tries to pretend he doesn't unironically read stirner

>>128979519
Everyone itt is calm except for your camp, weenie. Post some more sterner memes or Marx, wear your weenie with pride.

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>>128979586
>end of argument
You need to make an argument in the first place to end it

>>128979513
>God is everything and beyond everything
>so we can't understand him
>so he exists and your argument is invalid
>God is something absolute and great and referencable when we want him to be
>But God is also something completely beyond our grasp that cannot be referenced when people are trying to apply outside logic to him

We reaching Buddhist levels of cognitive dissonance.

There is no Not A and A. You pick one, you choose one.

God either exists, or he doesn't. If you say he is both, that's logically unsound.

Saying he is awesome and all these other things does not answer the question, "Does God exist?" You could at least tell me "Mu" so I didn't have to write this all out.

>>128979856
>too thick to get it

HURR DURR THERE ISN'T ONE

kek

>>128980072
That's right, squirm Esau squirm!

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>>128980072
Shooo

>>128979280
I don't think any answer will satisfy a Stirnerite, but I'll try.

Yes, there is a God. But God simply cannot be a thing like other things, so you are right to note that the expression "God exists" is immensely more complex than it immediately appears. Christians posit divine simpleness - God does not belong to any genus, even the genus of substance (i.e. God is not a substance like a table). Rather, God "is" what he "has" - goodness, beauty, truth, mercy, etc etc. These attributes should not be conceived as "belonging" to some "thing" that is there (like this table is here). Rather, so to speak, God "is" what he "has."

Now, one might say that this is very mysterious, and the Doctors of the Church would surely agree - even Aquinas says we know what God is NOT much more than we know what God is. That God is mysterious should itself be obvious to us - human reason simply cannot completely conceptualize God (again, God isn't an "object" like other objects, so this thesis - that reason cannot capture God - is already contained in the forgoing). Fortunately, for Christians there is another perfectly valid way to think about God, because God became man: Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ. To understand God, we may simply turn to him as he is revealed in the New Testament. Here we see God's goodness, truth, beauty, mercy, etc etc on display in an eminently humanly-understandable way.

For the new atheist who demands all things be subject to scientific rigor (or the Stirnerite who is much the same), none of this will prove convincing. But that is simply because such people conceive God as akin to a body, like a planet, and demand the same kind of knowledge. This itself is a grave mistake, a kind of category error of the most elementary kind. The ancients knew this. Too many moderns do not.

>>128979024
>feeble human monkey minds are completely capable of processing how to describe fucking GOD
just stop man

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>>128979949
>so he exists and your argument is invalid
You didn't seem to grasp what was being said at all. Try reading this part of it again: "He is not a “being” [...] he is not one more object in the inventory of things that are, or any sort of discrete object at all. Rather, all things that exist receive their being continuously from him, who is the infinite wellspring of all that is [...] In one sense he is “beyond being,” if by “being” one means the totality of discrete, finite things. In another sense he is “being itself,” in that he is the inexhaustible source of all reality, the absolute upon which the contingent is always utterly dependent, the unity and simplicity that underlies and sustains the diversity of finite and composite things."

>God is something
Please concentrate for a moment on that quote I gave you for more than just a second. You'll see I'm not talking about God as if God is a thing or an object.

>We reaching Buddhist levels of cognitive dissonance.
Well you'll reach some pretty crazy stuff when you straw man the hell out of people's statements.

>God either exists, or he doesn't.
Again, God read what was quoted. If you can understand English at all you'll see this dichotomy you're presenting is confused when the term "God" is properly understood.

>>128980253
I meant to say go read*

>>128980253
"God" sounds a lot like Azathoth. A monster beyond comprehension whose dream sustains the universe.

>>128979949
>There is no Not A and A.
Jesus tapdancing Christ. A Stirnerite and an "objectivist"? Yeah, I was enamored with Atlas Shrugged for a few months in high school as well. We move on.

>>128980196
Alright, so God is a set of attributes, a loose collection one cannot qualify as "being."

Beings, existences, whatever you want to call them, need to be caused, and God's attributes (he, himself) is the original causation.

So in this way you get around God being a thing that needs to be caused by saying he is a loose collection that is somehow not something with definition and thus a thing or noun.

Alright, even assuming that, all I have to do is propose that the universe is composed of only attributes. You might say, "But look at all this stuff! It has to be a tangible existence, unlike God!" All I have to say is that they are merely a loose collection of attributes (A table doesn't exist, it's loose collection of attributes it "has" ("is") do).

I'm guessing the next place we take this will be the concept of well, conception.

>>128980472
Naw you're still not getting it. You're thinking of a demiurge.

Bishop Robert Barron (Doctor of Sacred Theology under the pontifical system from the Institut Catholique de Paris) explains: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zMf_8hkCdc

>>128980472
Furthermore, how do you reconcile this view of God to the Bible? God directly intervenes in several events, according to scripture, and it seems strange for some "inexhaustible source of all reality" to also decide to flood the earth as punishment

>>128979513
Fucking excellent DBH quotation

I came here for smuggies not this stupid religious debate.

/r/ing white professor

>>128980810
Exodus 3:14
God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM"; and He said, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"

As noted in >>128979513 God is immanent to all things. Pic related also makes this clear. God is not a demiurge who just got the ball rolling. God is the wellspring of existence where all things are continuously being created and being sustained.

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>>128980843
Thank you

More people should know about DBH

>>128978745
According to the pic related, God (Jahweh) is 1/3 of God, Jesus is 1/3 of God and Holy spirit is 1/3 of God?

>>128981240
No, there is a distinction between personhood and essence. In essence God is one but in terms of personhood he is plural: 3 = The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit. Each person of the trinity is one with God in essence but is distinct in personhood.

>>128980253
>Try reading this part of it again: "He is not a “being” [...] he is not one more object in the inventory of things that are, or any sort of discrete object at all. Rather, all things that exist receive their being continuously from him, who is the infinite wellspring of all that is
So all objects receive existence from a him who/which "is" (this "is' is in the non-being format, no worries)...? You have yet to define him.

> In one sense he is “beyond being,” if by “being” one means the totality of discrete, finite things. In another sense he is “being itself,” in that he is the inexhaustible source of all reality, the absolute upon which the contingent is always utterly dependent, the unity and simplicity that underlies and sustains the diversity of finite and composite things."
Alright, so he is an absolute. Did you know an absolute is a thing? A source is a thing?

So, despite being something you yourself can define, he is not a thing. And this means he exists because everything rests upon him. Oh, but their not resting upon a thing!

You'll say it's a defect in our language, that we can't conceive of his existence, but really all that boils down to is, "He just is (special is which isn't indicating being status!), I can't explain it in English!" Huge cop-out.

>>128976597
>smartest stuff in whole thread
>>all kinds of assholes
>fartypooppoopluuuulllll god is fakey poo poo pee pee poooooop stupid poop theists piss poop fart

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>>128980487
Yeah, we move on to illogical concepts!

Magical thinking is the realm of adults, huh?

>>128981149
The idea of God as "the wellspring of existence" and God as described in the Bible are not really connected.
You use the same word, but it seems that you're really just using the same label for two different things.

>>128975538

This is retarded. Not shilling for Musk but you're comparing a multimillion dollar mission of a targeted scope with a small crew to providing the same resources for the entire planet. Nothing is worse than a shit political cartoon.

>>128979229
You've read the bible? Holy fuck you're retarded.

If your an atheists your an idiot for reading something you don't believe in.
If you're a jew you're a heretic for something that contradicts your bullshit religion.

Either way, as you've demonstrated only a retard would read the bible and only an even bigger retard would argue about something they've never read.

By your own contradictions you're the biggest retard in the thread, I bet your parents wish you had been gassed.

>>128981558
>You have yet to define him.
I just gave you an entire quote from Dr. David Bentley Hart on how to speak properly of God. When we speak of God we are not speaking of a being but rather the the infinite wellspring of all that is.

>Alright, so he is an absolute.
Wrong. He's not "an absolute". Rather, all things that exist receive their being continuously from him, who is the infinite wellspring of all that is.

Bishop Robert Barron (Doctor of Sacred Theology under the pontifical system from the Institut Catholique de Paris) explains in more detail here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zMf_8hkCdc

>So, despite being something
God is a not "something". I keep correcting you on this and you keep making crazy straw men. Stop it.

>And this means he exists
He is not a being that exists but rather all that exists receive their being from him. I don't know how to make this any simpler for you. The other guy talking to you seems to get it just fine.

>You'll say it's a defect in our language, that we can't conceive of his existence, but really all that boils down to is, "He just is (special is which isn't indicating being status!), I can't explain it in English!" Huge cop-out.

It really isn't a cop-out if you think about it for more than a second and with a shred of charity (see the principle of charity). We identify objects based on their differences and their relations to other things. We call a box a box and a circle a circle. A box is not a circle and a circle is not a box. We can distinguish them from one another as they are not the same thing. This is how we identify everything in the universe. Once we start talking about the creator of the universe, whom is one and is without parts or distinction, of course we can't talk about quite the same way as everything else because we're not talking about everything else. It's

>>128981930
nobody in their right mind reads Aussie palls of text.
b-but im glad you out an effort anon!

>>128982353
typos since my keyboard is wireless

>>128981538
I'm not able to fully grasp the concept (I was raised as Catholic though).
Have you watched Dragon Ball Z?
Is Trinity like a fusion of God, Jesus and Holy Spirit?
But each of them in normal state are God, so why do they need fusion?

>>128981845
Except for that whole part where Moses asks God what his name is and God responds with "I AM WHO I AM" (Exodus 3:14)

Don't forget Acts 17:28
"for in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, 'For we also are His children.'"

Pretty shit thread senpai

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>OP asks for rare smuggies
>fedoras come in and derail the thread
>jews are ultimate smug
>Smuggy dinner theatre is performed live for OP
>but it's common smuggy dinner theatre

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im going to sleep. night

>>128976271
>>128977877

what a high level of dialogue we have going on in this thread

>>128982211
>When we speak of God we are not speaking of a being but rather the the infinite wellspring of all that is.
Did you know wellsprings are things?

>Wrong. He's not "an absolute". Rather, all things that exist receive their being continuously from him, who is the infinite wellspring of all that is.
So >>128980253
>In another sense he is “being itself,” in that he is the inexhaustible source of all reality, the absolute
Is wrong? You're going back on that? Okay.

>God is a not "something". I keep correcting you on this and you keep making crazy straw men. Stop it.
This "not something", I think it might be a something.

>He is not a being that exists but rather all that exists receive their being from him. I don't know how to make this any simpler for you. The other guy talking to you seems to get it just fine.
You see, I get it. You want to describe God as this special non-something that somehow is the source of all existence and existence itself all while being not something even though being the source of all existence is something and existence itself is something.

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>>128982537
This pic absolutely proves my point 100%. When you think of God you think of a demiurge.

I'm not talking about a demiurge but the one true God.

>>128982353
>I've been out jewed! Quick, act smug and run away!
Do you fags still get blowies or are your mutilated dicks too insensitive to feel it?

>>128982707
So the Bible, when describing God as angry, is wrong?

>>128977412
But God isn't 'something'. God is the concept of creation itself.

>>128982471
But what about the rest of the Bible? Do you believe that God truly performed some/all of the actions that the Book says he did?

Or do you just look at the parts you picked out and believe in God solely as reality-essence?

>>128982635
Newfags abound here.
How goes the missus/Ewe?

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>>128982829
And the concept of creation itself is something.

Keep saying "God isn't 'something'", while in the same breath calling him all these different somethings.

>>128982957
You're deliberately misinterpreting the meaning of "something."

>>128976562
this post gave me crohns disease

>>128982642
Wow atheists really are autistic, it's not just a meme. I'm not talking about a literal wellspring.

>So >>128980253 (You) Is wrong? You're going back on that? Okay.
No, you simply can't read. Notice how the language doesn't "an absolute" like you falsely claimed. God is THE absolute, God is THE creator, THE source of all being. God is not the biggest baddest being that happens to be in existence, God IS the ground of all existence.

You didn't even watch that video I cited for you, huh? Fail. If you want understanding why don't you accept it when it's offered to you?

>This "not something", I think it might be a something.

Because you're not actually reading what I write and you're not watching the videos I send you. If you don't open your eyes you won't see, that's not my problem.

>You want to describe God as this special non-something that somehow is the source of all existence and existence itself all while being not something even though being the source of all existence is something and existence itself is something.

You're just repeating yourself over and over here, not even making a point...

>>128976800
So this is the current meta on smuggies right?

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>>128976105

>>128976483
Thats not how american democracy works tho

>>128977282

Typical jew. You missed the bit that comes afterward. You do all that specifically so that your enemy gets a worse punishment in hell.

>>128982773
How would any of what was said make it wrong?

>>128976597
>Christian: We call God that which creates all things and sustains them in being.

Where is that in the Bible?

>>128976678
you eat foreskins and are incapable of any originality or creativity; your existence resembles a tapeworm

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>>128982957
Well, no you're missing the point. The concept of creation is what various cultures interpret as "a deity". The concept of creation is what is in question. The concept of creation is not the thing that it creates. Its existence isn't dependent on what follows after.

>>128983326
Genesis.
In the beginning.

>>128983412
That's not what Genesis says though. Genesis says that God is a sentient actor in the universe capable of creating things from nothing but his will.

>>128976597
LOL yup this has pretty much been my discussion with >>128982642

>>128983180
>God is THE absolute, God is THE creator, THE source of all being. God is not the biggest baddest being that happens to be in existence, God IS the ground of all existence.
All of the things you listed are things.

>You didn't even watch that video I cited for you, huh? Fail. If you want understanding why don't you accept it when it's offered to you?
How can anyone describe God if he is beyond everything, even language? By your own logic, that video will not tell me anything about God, because language fails to describe him.

>Because you're not actually reading what I write and you're not watching the videos I send you.
I've been reading what you write, and it's all trite nonsense trying to play with definitions.

>If you don't open your eyes you won't see, that's not my problem.
Did I give the impression of wanting to be saved?

>You're just repeating yourself over and over here, not even making a point...
You've been repeating yourself.
"God's not something. God is THE ____ (fill in something (woops) poetic). Everything relies on him!"

You only get what you give. Hell, I will actually watch the video later. Maybe that will give you some hope in my soul being saved or something (woops I meant not something).

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>>128977282
the cure to the white ailment

>>128983684
>Did I give the impression of wanting to be saved?

You do not seem willing to engage in conversation and actual sharing of ideas at all.

>>128983557
There's no contradiction there.
He creates all things and sustains them in being by his will.

What's the issue?

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>>128975538

>>128976483
this is literally their arguement for the Paris treaty.

>>128975538
>human's
ffs.
also: this is stupid. there's no straightforward way to scale down the cost and availability of technology needed to survive on Mars to a 2 degree hike on average on Earth. maybe it's nothing, maybe it's prohibitive, who knows.

>>128983682
Not really, it's been more like this.

Christian: God is beyond the logical confines of your language! Thus he is (not in the way those pesky atheists mean it!)!
Atheist: Okay, I'll still argue against God because I don't have to accept that.
Christian: You can't argue against God, he is existence itself! Existence itself isn't a thing!
Atheist: Pretty sure existence itself is a thing.
Christian: NUH UH!

It's been real elucidating. Theology is like the inbred cousin of philosophy.

>>128983682
4chan is really the wrong place to have a conversation about religion. I'd be interested in further correspondence with you though.

>>128983684
>All of the things you listed are things.
Here's where your straw man breaks down, and I noticed that you completely ignored this before (gee I wonder why): "We identify objects based on their differences and their relations to other things. We call a box a box and a circle a circle. A box is not a circle and a circle is not a box. We can distinguish them from one another as they are not the same thing. This is how we identify everything in the universe. Once we start talking about the creator of the universe, whom is one and is without parts or distinction, of course we can't talk about quite the same way as everything else because we're not talking about everything else."

Stop dodging this.

>How can anyone describe God if he is beyond everything, even language?

If you would just watch the video you would see where we're going with this.

>By your own logic, that video will not tell me anything about God, because language fails to describe him.

You don't even understand my logic. Watch the video first. Gain understanding FIRST before you begin criticism.

>I've been reading what you write, and it's all trite nonsense trying to play with definitions.

You've been strawmanning the hell out of my statements. This conversation is essentially this: >>128982642

>Did I give the impression of wanting to be saved?

Who said anything about being saved? I was talking about you being able to see. You being able to understand.

>You've been repeating yourself.

What you call "me repeating myself" is you misrepresenting me so I've had to steer you back on course.

For real though, this conversation really is this: >>128982642

If you actually want to gain some understanding, check out the authors I've cited, think over the arguments I've laid out with charity and patience. I've made my points. Peace.

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>>128983810

>>128978463
u cant even handle gaza nigger ur fuckin toast

IRAN RAPES ISRAEL 2017/2018

>>128978745
You know what, I may not believe in God or whatever but just the sheer, dense amount of theory and philosophy and shit that these religions have gone through is so cool sometimes.

>>128984179
I'm silly I meant to link this one: >>128976597

it's late lol

>>128976194
did you just prove his point? why, it seems like you did.
fyi for the next time you are asked this question, the answer you are supposed to parrot is that everything that *began to exist at some time* must have a creator (so not an unconditional 'everything'), and luckily God is known - read: defined in such a way - as having been always existed, for the whole duration of Time and outside it, too, although 'before' does not apply for that last corner case. it's bullshit, of course, but it's the official bullshit and better thought through than a fedora meme. unless you are a fellow atheist trying to make christians bad, which is an entirely unnecessary exercise.

>>128978463
Your pile of ugly kvetchers would evaporate or have to Samson itself if it weren't for our abomo-nation. Go learn carpentry and get a nose job.

>>128983925
What Christians call God is not simply that which creates things and sustains them in being. There is extra baggage now smuggled into the definition of God by Genesis of sentience, a will, and conscious action.

If Christians simply believed God was just that which creates all things and sustains them in being they would only believe in whatever scientific analysis defines as the cause of creation and continued existence of the universe, they would not be theists.

Instead Christianity posits a multitude of other traits and characteristics on top of simply having created and maintained the universe. Hence the contradiction. If a Christian attempts to define God into existence by simply saying "God i that which creates all things and sustains them in being" they've done absolutely nothing to prove the Christian God and all they've done to "prove" God is ascribed the word "God" to something that exists and then aha God exists. It's akin to saying "This pen is God, this pen exists, God exists". If the thing being called God doesn't actually shared the properties of the God that is proposed by Christianity or other theistic claims then calling it God does nothing to prove Christianity or theism.

Cool Ive never actually seen Share blue in a thread before.

>>128976597
>Well, God isn't a thing among other things, but, as Augustine and Aquinas and all the great teachers taught, being itself, or to-be itself
they said it, you don't think about it, that settles it?
these statements make no sense. what's the name of the anglican theologian who came to the final conclusion of this kind of mental contortionism and announced that god does not necessarily exist, because to claim that he exist is to limit him e.g. in not existing?
I'm sure this was what all those semi-arab fully-primitive goatfuckers were aiming at 3000 years ago when they came up with the roots of the bullshit known as abrahamic religions.

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>>128984094
Super accurate strawman. I had that exact same conversation with an atheist this morning, only he was even more well-spoken while I basically just drooled on my bible.
After it was over my wife left me and became an atheist, too.

>>128984094
>Pretty sure existence itself is a thing.
Actually existence itself isn't a thing. Existence is the fact or state of living or having objective reality, not an object or a thing that happens to be in existence. That's just silly.

If you would just stop with the strawmen and just argue with charity and patience this might have gone somewhere. Take care.

>>128982765
im uncut, do you really think that my parents are that fucking stupid?

>>128976833
>400 years ago
make that 200, otherwise your point stands.

>>128982410
Oh thank G-d it was tech's fault! I though a Jew might actually have to admit to being a moron or making a mistake. Terror alert lowered, everyone.

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>>128982876
bretty gud m8

how goes the bull/emu?

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>>128984522
>>128984253
how cute it's mad and throwing a tantrum :)

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>>128977831
You're one of the best examples of why we need to exterminate your "people" off the face of the earth.

>>128985039
Your people's history is nothing but a tantrum. *Wah, we wuz chosen*

>>128984153
True. I'm up for more dialogue. How should we correspond?

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>>128985210
>dumb sub IQ nigger
>can't make an argument
>posts an image of some bodies

cheers mate!

>>128984179
>Here's where your straw man breaks down, and I noticed that you completely ignored this before (gee I wonder why): "We identify objects based on their differences and their relations to other things. We call a box a box and a circle a circle. A box is not a circle and a circle is not a box. We can distinguish them from one another as they are not the same thing. This is how we identify everything in the universe. Once we start talking about the creator of the universe, whom is one and is without parts or distinction, of course we can't talk about quite the same way as everything else because we're not talking about everything else."
Alright, let's break this down.

>We identify objects based on their differences and their relations to other things.
What is a cow? We'll keep going to more and more basic words to describe it until we hit proverbial bed-rock. Thing. Existence. The fucking opposite of nothing. They define each other by negation, and are defined themselves circularly, because there isn't anything more basic (maybe you'll have issue with this).

Thing and nothing, are only defined by each other. They are basic. Fundamental. Their only relation to other things is through their grounding of them, acting as what one could say the absolute (sounds similar to god doesn't it?).

You've been defining God this whole time, with his relations and differences with things, with existence. Relations in that he is and sustains existence, and differences in that he is also not a being like existence.

Is what you are doing good enough to describe God, yes or no?

>>128976271
That pic is right, epic meme, neckbeard fedora guy.

>>128978088
>If God does exist, then God is an existence.
>If God doesn't exist, then God isn't an existence
Youre implicitly assuming that everything that exists must exist in the same way, which theists deny. For theists, all being is divided between being X and Being Itself. The universe, being the latter, cannot exist without another maintaining it in existence, and because this chain cannot go on infinitely, it must stop at some point, with that point being God.

Anyway, youre mistaken in assuming that all that exists must exist in the same way, which the theist maintains is impossible.

>>128976800
Isn't that what YOU'RE doing?

>>128976105
>>128976175
>>128976231
>>128976271
>>128976483
>>128976562
>>128976678
>>128976764
>>128976945
>>128977094
>>128977282
>>128977555
>>128977831
>>128977954
>>128978334
>>128978463
>>128978829
>>128979229
>>128979586
>>128980072
>>128982353
>>128982410
>>128982537
t. Jude

>>128985315
[email protected]

>>128985623
le 26 posts by kikelord himself, israeli range ban when?

>>128976562
What is it with liberal Israelis on here?
I would've thought being surrounded by mudslimes, who want to kill you, left wing Palestine love, and military service would make you guys at least a LITTLE sensible

>>128985667
Anyways, I'm going to bed now.

>>128978088
>what is the contingency argument?

>>128985707
heh I kinda want the world to be habitable, yknow?


>>128985623
Australia was populated by the worst that anglos had to offer ANGLOS.
That REALLY makes one think doesn't it?

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>>128978044

>>128985473
>What is a cow? We'll keep going to more and more basic words to describe it until we hit proverbial bed-rock. Thing. Existence.

Existence itself is not a thing as I described already. Existence is the fact or state of living or having objective reality. What you're talking about a reduction of an object down to it's fundamental components, down to its parts. This brings up another important philosophical conundrum as to whether there is a fundamental building block that everything reduces to or whether objects are not reducible to their parts. That's an important part of this discussion that I don't think we'll be able to tackle right now without straying far off the topic of God for bit.

But either way, what I'm getting at is that how we identify objects or things is through distinction and relating them to other things. Take the cow for instance: you don't make sense of the cow in a vacuum. You relate to it's shape by according to the dimensions of space around it and the colors that are there or are not there and whether it stands out or blends into the background etc. The point is it's about differences and relations and that requires plurality for such language to function in that capacity. God is not plural in essence so of course we won't be talking about God the way we talk about a cow.

>You've been defining God this whole time, with his relations and differences with things, with existence

No, I've been noting that everything else relates to him as he is the ground of all being but he doesn't relate to it as he is one in essence and without parts or distinction.

Did you ever watch that video from Bishop Barron?

>>128985851
>heh I kinda want the world to be habitable, yknow
Habitable for jews, you mean

>>128979229
>it is though, you are quoting the very thing which you are defending it's a conflict of interest

Serious historians use the New Testament as accurate historical documents

>>128985521
>Youre implicitly assuming that everything that exists must exist in the same way, which theists deny.
Okay, they're free to deny it. I'm free to affirm it.

I get the feeling we've been completely going past each other this entire thread.

>For theists, all being is divided between being X and Being Itself.
That seems like a nice succinct way of describing. It would explain why they always had such issue with "something" and "thing".

>The universe, being the latter, cannot exist without another maintaining it in existence, and because this chain cannot go on infinitely, it must stop at some point, with that point being God.
Definitely doesn't feel like the logic follows. Or rather, they had to invent their own logic for it to make any sense.

>Anyway, youre mistaken in assuming that all that exists must exist in the same way, which the theist maintains is impossible.
Well personally I'm a firm believer in Potato and Everything Else. Just because we don't know the reason for existence, doesn't mean we can just claim this mystical whatever the hell you want to call it (since any word I use they will have a problem with) ex- "is" (in the non-being affirming sense, obviously).

I don't see why we can't shrug our shoulders and solemnly admit we don't know the answers we don't have the clues to. This is would be like if Sherlock Holmes didn't have enough clues to solve the murder, so he just claims a "non-clue" which is the omni-clue exists, but in a special, non-existy way.

>smuggies created so much butthurt that this thread happened
these are even worse than the pepe hillary memes since most of those were ironic

>>128983402
Thanks for this image. Was quite interesting.

>>128975538
>>128976105
>>128976175
>>128976231
bad smuggies
>>128976516
>>128976800
>>128977445
good smuggies

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>>128986582

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>>128986782
didn't even realise they were all from the same poster, top form mate. Have a smuggy.

>>128979024
And so the egoist appealed to convention, the product of every ego but his own. Ironic memes.

>>128976649
Is the guy in the computer talking about doggy style?

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>>128976105

>>128987252
where is my fedora pic???

>>128983810
But he did. You simply decided his rebuttals were a failure on his part at grasping your argument. Since neither of you are willing to concede to each others argument (you because your identity of being resides in (a) god existing, and he because his being does not find god logical) then this leaves both of you stuck between a rock and a hard place.

>>128986094
>Existence is the fact or state of living or having objective reality.
This sounds like a fucking thing. I'm sorry, I know, you're going to be quite aggravated by this insistence, but in what way is this not a thing? It is clearly not nothing. It would have to be a thing. If it wasn't a thing, it's not like you'd be able to describe it. Thing is not "physical thing" (please note, how physical thing isn't redundant, it is in fact a subset of "thing"). Concepts are things. I will note that the concept of something and the thing itself are obviously different. Can there be a concept (thing) describing a non-thing? I actually came to the conclusion yes.

Hmmm. Alright, I'm starting to see at least some sense in keeping with this train of thought. I'll watch the Bishop Barron video later.

Thinking about whether nothing is a thing or not actually made me think there's a little something deeper to this.

Just wanted to say this to let you know you didn't completely waste your time.

>This brings up another important philosophical conundrum as to whether there is a fundamental building block that everything reduces to or whether objects are not reducible to their parts.
What's the name of this? Does it have a title?

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>>128987509

>>128981149
ehyeh usher ehych: “I am what I am.” This enigmatic phrase was a Hebrew idiom of deliberate vagueness, which meant, in effect, “Never mind who I am!

>"Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"

In other words "never mind (who) has sent me". Another way of saying "Don't think about it".

>>128987509
>This sounds like a fucking thing.
It really doesn't. Things exist within existence. Existence itself is not "within existence", that makes no sense. What you're talking about is gibberish.

>It is clearly not nothing.

Nobody is saying existence is nothing, but existence itself is clearly not "a something" or "a thing" as if you're looking at a list of things that exist like tacos or dogs or trees. Existence won't be on that list, existence contains the list.

>Just wanted to say this to let you know you didn't completely waste your time.

Thank you, its appreciated. I know this is complicated so I should be more patient. This isn't something that a single conversation can settle, it takes a lifetime of contemplation on all sides.

>What's the name of this? Does it have a title?

I don't know of a particular name for the issue but it's a common issue discussed in the philosophical study known as Mereology: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/mereology/

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>>128975538

>>128988218
>Nobody is saying existence is nothing, but existence itself is clearly not "a something" or "a thing" as if you're looking at a list of things that exist like tacos or dogs or trees. Existence won't be on that list, existence contains the list.
But a list can definitely contain itself.

Recursive definitions do exist. In fact, if existence is "to-be" then if "to-be" isn't, how could anything be? You're probably going to say that's gibberish, but if we say existence is not something that exists, then how could anything exist if everything encompassed by existence requires existence?

>Thank you, its appreciated. I know this is complicated so I should be more patient. This isn't something that a single conversation can settle, it takes a lifetime of contemplation on all sides.
It's /pol/, I'm surprised patience could exist in a place like this.

>I don't know of a particular name for the issue but it's a common issue discussed in the philosophical study known as Mereology: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/mereology/
Thanks.

>>128978745
> Hurr duurr I have a diagram

>>128990234
Nice one.

>>128979513
Congratulations you just changed the definition of "God" to "the universe"

Also
>Rather, all things that exist receive their being continuously from him
Even evil?

>>128991233
Nothing wrong with killing some niggers

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>>128976859
>>128976918
>>128977106
lol look at this bitch, who thinks he is hardcore with his pussy level gore pictures.

>>128979586
Uhhh... the bible is composed by more than 1 book but I guess you would need a middle school education to know that KEK

>>128991330
Nothing wrong with killing some nazis

>>128991233
>the jewish onspiracy

>>128991421
You'll get arrested by the thought police if you keep this up.
You know what? I'm sending a tip to your authorities just for fun since they seem to put away people for facebook posts, tentar non nuoce

>>128991653
That only applies to right-wing extremists.

Leftists can be as extreme as we like. Nobody will bat an eyelid if I say that I want to torture and kill nazis.

People will probably encourage it.

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>>128975538

>>128991653
Based piasano
>>128991421
Pasty inbred Anglo

>>128991705
>>128991803
shouldnt you guys be busy brainstorming ideas for the next hashtag to make for the next time you get religion of peace'd?

better think fast, you only have a few more days

>>128992077
I hope more British people die in terrorist attacks, they deserve everything they get

>>128992077
Projecting a bit there Ausbro, you're proving my image right.

>>128992068
>>128992077
>>128992190
Triggered nazis detected.

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>>128992290
Inbred pasty Anglo commie detected

>>128991803

I know you, faggot

>>128992345
>>128992415
Nazi tears are the best. Nazis are so fragile and easily triggered.

It's ironic that you live in a country that will soon be a majority non white. You realise that when you're on your deathbeds that your country will more closely resemble Brazil than a white country right? Have fun with that.

>>128976562
>>128976483
אתה מטומטם, גם ההסכם פריז הזה עולה לארהב הרבה כסף, לישראל זה לא עולה כלום

>>128992345

This little fucking faggot? I hoped someone would have killed it by now.

>>128992260
>Aus

all you had to do was hover your cursor over my flag for a second to make sure you wouldnt sound retarded, but i guess thats too much for a shill to handle


is it fun going out of your way to spend time on a website you hate? why dont you get an actual life?

>>128992601
Yeah but so will UK, that's what you want isn't it ? My State is 90% white btw
>>128992949
He still exists, somehow..

>>128975538
This one's fucking great. Nice OC

>>128978463
Lol!

>>128976588
But smugy images point out contradictions. They don't use irony, you know, to say one thing but mean another. Like when I call you a fag.

>>128975538
I'm scared of carbon acid from the emissions, not temperature change
not like we can do anything about it other than nuking China and India though

>>128976516

I think you miss the point of smuggies. they're not there to "predict" your reaction. rather, they are there to show you how your argument is contradictory by reframing it

>>128976859
what's his jaw doing over there

>>128976764

>asian women are the final redpill. Even Asa Akira realized porn was wrong and wants to get out to start a family. White women think they deserve a rich alpha chad, kids, 457 black dicks, and a top paid executive position all because muh vagina

>>128976764
kind of true

>>128977555

Im an atheist but this argument doesn't really make sense due to the Fermi Paradox. why would god give a shit about random rocks floating in space when he has sentient beings to comprehend his creation? Also why would he not send his one son to the people who already worship him? What would be the point in sending him to another continent where people would have no idea what he is talking about?

god isn't real, but this image is dumb.

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>>128995443
Reminds me of this one.

>>128976945
Fuck you kike slime. I can get laid. They are just all mudsharks now who I don't even want to fuck because of you. Kill yourself.

>>128977048
the misplaced semicolon in this one bothers me

>>128999542

Then God is dumb as shit, making a ridiculously massive beyond all comprehension, and yet completely empty Universe so he could care a lot about this particular speck of dust.

Alternatively, there are other sapient races out there (which I fully believe simply by probability considering scale) and thus the question becomes valid again.

>>128980253
that article is utterly retarded

>>128980253

See, this is a motte and bailey argument that Christians use.

You go from

> "He is not a “being” [...] he is not one more object in the inventory of things that are, or any sort of discrete object at all. Rather, all things that exist receive their being continuously from him, who is the infinite wellspring of all that is [...] In one sense he is “beyond being,” if by “being” one means the totality of discrete, finite things. In another sense he is “being itself,” in that he is the inexhaustible source of all reality, the absolute upon which the contingent is always utterly dependent, the unity and simplicity that underlies and sustains the diversity of finite and composite things."

To "The Bible is his word, Jesus died on a cross to absolve us of sin, yadda yadda yadda"

Your first definition of God is so conceptual you could be an atheist and still be okay with it.

>>128999542
Sure, but at least on Earth, isn't it convenient that everything he did and everything written about im occurred just in one area?

File: sad demiurge.png (584KB, 1400x2700px) Image search: [Google]

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>>128976597
>>128999542
>>128979513
>fuk u demiurge

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>>128985851

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>>128991233
Where is the line really though?

>>128979586
>PERIOD

>>128985039
>being this mad

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>>128991366

here you go then, Spiderman's real

>>128976271
post a picture of yourself right now

>>128978591
God isn't a noun, but he's a male and his name is Jehovah..

>>128977282
I agree with this one. Jews have cucked the white race with Christianity. It's a scam.

>>128983402
Problem is, you'll never get from a prime mover or Spinoza's God to Jesus dying on a cross as a proxy for your sins. Even if someone grants you that whatever force is the prime mover is synonymous with God, you still have all your work ahead of you to not just have everyone be Daoist.

>>129009455

The Prime Mover or Spinoza's God is so vague you could be an atheist and still believe in it.

The Prime Mover is a very basic requirement, but FAR from sufficient.

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>>129010714

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>>129010714

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So are you fags done posting, give me what you got. I've been waiting for one of these threads for a while.

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>>128975538
Here's the Swede one

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>>129003849
Obligatory

>>128978334
The Jewish line is carried through the mother. Mary was Jewish, but that doesn't mean God is.

I can't believe that I have to explain this to a kike.

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>>128975538
these memes are fucking stupid

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>>128975538
all non christian will be THE FIRST to go.

In fact the only to go...

DUES VULT