Argument For Wage Increases

Better to just have a basic income and eliminate the minimum wage.

>>128929650
Yes, every company paying below what she considers to be a living wage should close, and their underpaid employees will now receive a wage of zero. Liberalism is a mental illness.

>>128929650
No. What I pay Jose is none of her business, or Governments

why is it wrong to interere in peoples consensual bedroom experiences but necessary to interfere in their consensual financial experiences?

>>128929650
>If you can't afford to pay a living wage, you can't afford to be in business
>T. A liberal who probably eats big macs and shops at Walmart.
If they want to earn a decent wage, perhaps they should consider learning a skill that involves more than the ability to flex their arm to flip burgers. A month of studying on the internet (no formal education) is enough to get a job that pays at least double the minimum wage. No experience necessary.

>>128929650

I do agree. However, these dipshits think a living wage is a wage that gives you enough to have the newest smartphone, a flatscreen HDTV, a new car, a nice apartment to yourself, money to eat out frequently and buy expensive junk food while having enough left over to go out and do other money consuming shit.

They don't want a living wage, they want a luxury wage.

Also, check 'em.

>>128929650
The arguments for it are irrelevent. You can't arbitrarilly increase the cost of labor, or at least you can't do so without disasterous side effects.

>>128929650
Yeah. If you cant afford to pay a wage that is satisfactory for a living organic sack of mechanized shit to enslave themselves to you at all hours of the week then you shouldn't be in business to begin with.

These store owners are literally killing the economy by hiring immigrants that don't pay any taxes while swelling up the welfare rolls. They take jobs out of the economy, without putting any money into the economy while taking money out by applying for gibmedat through Jezebel the social worker who feels the latin plight.

Raise wages, support your economy, pay taxes and see the money circulate. People with more relax lives and more income are more inclined to spend more thus stimulating the economy while consumers and workers are both happy and satisfied.

Fuck Pedro

>>128929650
If people think your wages are too low, no one forces them to sign the contract. Every wage, and every price for a mutually agreed transaction are economically legitimate.

>>128929650
>how dare you pay someone a low wage!
>I demand you go out of business so both you and your employees starve on welfare instead!

If you have the aptitude and skills to be an asset to the business that employs you, you can demand a higher wage or else you'll take your aptitude and skills to a rival business.

>>128929650
If they genetically modified cows to shit gold, the price of gold would drop dramatically, because it wouldn't be as rare.
Schools and universities shit out millions of potential workers each year.
The population continues to rise.
The cost of labor constantly increases.
Why?

>>128931103
woah woah woah slow down

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>>128929650
what is inflation, alex, you fucking commie faggot

Except the owner of that company took a massive risk with his/her investments and subsequently should be rewarded for doing so.

What value does a minimum wage worker bring to the business? Very little they are completely replaceable because they have no proprietary skill.

>>128929650
Businesses are entitled, says the person who wants to live in a two bedroom apartment with their two dogs, in a post they made with their smartphone, while watching netflix in their bigscreen tv. I absolutely despise the term 'living wage' because nobody is willing to define what it means to live since they all know that to do so would be to admit they live a life of luxury.

>>128930446
30% of jobs here are minimum wage, theres just not decent jobs for everyone,

>>128929650
If you can't afford to pay rent for a studio apartment, you can't afford to live in a city. Asking people to pay for your rent so you can try to snag an investment banker is entitlement at its finest.

You are asking human beings to use their lives to subsidize your desire to find a wealthy husband.

If a woman is worth being done, she can earn enough to get by.

If you cant get a good job stop trying to live in fucking Seattle and move somewhere that you can afford.

>>128930963
Minimum wage makes hiring illegals lucrative.

>>128929650
just make eberyfin cheepa

Maybe stop ruining the economy and importing millions of retards to oversaturate the market.

>>128931230

Unless you're not worth very much to the business that employs you. Then you'll just have to try to get the government to demand a higher wage for you. You useless cunt.

>>128929650
Its interesting that she sets up this strawman of an evil entrepreneur, the Small Business Owner who works people to death. Most probably a White Male of course.

In reality, it is mostly large corporations who pay low wages jobs. Its not some business owner with a false sense of entitlement making these wage decisions. Its some salaried executive crunching numbers. The owners of the business are actually stockholders, most of whom work crap 9-5 jobs themselves trying to save for retirement.

>>128931111
I don't agree with the analogy. Population increase means increase in supply AND demand for workers.

The cost of labor should increase, however, if GDP per capita increases because there is a quicker increase wealth to invest or consume (= demand for workers) than in population (= supply for workers). GDP per capita has remained fairly stable historically for very long periods but has been increasing since the industrial revolution.

If you lack the skills to leverage a pay increase or promotion then you deserve neither.

>>128930590
No check's, but I agree 100%

The people complaining about the minimum wage have no idea how to balance their budgets

>>128929650

Yes and no. Entry level positions are for teenagers who want to join the workforce for experience and extra cash while still living at home. The problem is that adults, mainly Mexicans, take these starter jobs and treat them as full time careers. They are given preference due to their age and the fact that they are permanent and have made it so young Americans aren't working anymore.

Minimum wage really shouldn't exist. If a job needs to be done and someone wants to do it at an agreed upon wage, it should be allowed. The problem is that the labor market is flooded by the third world.

>>128931361
Enforce the laws better. Whats the fucking point of ICE?

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>>128929650
No.

If you believe it to be so easy to open I business, I say do it yourself then.
The second you sign a multi year lease for a 18k a month store front, pay for and renew the business license, purchase and carry the minimum required 1 million dollar business liability insurance, pay for employee healthcare and birth control, pay for the materials/food/merchandise, pay for the equipment to sell/produce/manufacture said merchandise, pay all the bills for utilities, pay for the inevitable stolen merchandise from customers/employees, and make enough money to pay for your personal bills, YOU CAN THEN CONSIDER why you don't make 15 dollars an hour to flip hamburgers, clean toilets, or answer phones for 8 hours a day.

>>128929650

>democraps killing more small businesses

This isnt news. It has been their MO since forever

>>128932083
In France, communism is so much consensus that everyone (from the far right and Marine Le Pen to the far left) is persuaded that we live in an "ultra-libertarian" society. Meanwhile, government spending is 55% of GDP.

>>128931335
That's because leafs are taught since birth that being self-employed makes you an oppressor. Why do you think all of your local businesses are run by chinks and packies?

>>128929650
They agreed to the wage when they signed on. Don't like it, keep searching

>>128930092
Because consensual bedroom experiences don't bother anyone outside of that bedroom, but "consensual" financial experiences under the threat of financial ruin actually do hurt others.
>what is "dumping"
>>128932810
Your agreements are non-enforceable. The employee can and should steal whatever they like to make up the difference between minimum and their actual rate of pay.
>>128931890
>thinks anything that's not a storefront employing 20 or more people isn't a business
MBA student desperate to increase the value of his shill degree spotted. Run a sole proprietorship for a year so that you know what the fuck you're talking about instead of spraying what your kike prpofessor taught you all over the thread.

>>128930590
There's many "living wage" jobs out there, no experience/education necessary. None of these shits want to work 40+ hours a week, don't want to work labor, don't want to do anything that makes them sweat or get dirty but get paid like an executive for doing next to nothing

Life in America is not designed to be wholly utilitarian. Certainly we consider utilitarian goals when shaping policy, but inherent in our system is inequality and hierarchy - this is not per se bad. The goal has been, and certainly should be, to provide one the necessary tools and avenues to work their way up the hierarchy. When functioning as designed, one need only look to their intelligence, creativity, and work ethic should they find themselves unsuccessful. This is the accepted principal upon which classic liberalism is built.

To preempt the "ackshually"-tier responses, it is certainly up for debate whether the US has stayed true to this guiding principal.

>>128932523
What's the point of government if not to serve its citizens? Where does that 45% go and why?

>>128932693
ive never been in a local business not run by a white guy with a beard;

>>128933156
>Life in America is not designed to be wholly utilitarian
Stop drinking the cum of dead oligarchs, you submissive little cuck.

>>128932693
can confirm

>>128929650
>create environment where only big business can thrive
>complain about big business dominating everything and limited job opportunities

These people never thing things through to the end. It's all about what feels "good" and "right".

>>128929650
>don't import millions of third worlders
>fewer people to do the things
>then you can either pay someone a reasonable wage to make your sandwich or make your own fucking sandwich
of course the left claim to be for the poor and for immigrants at the same time, which is literally impossible. It's a performative contradiction

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Ya kek thats why we need to import immigrants to because their worth less.

>>128933326
Liberals just want cheap labor and import immigrants to achieve the necessary oversupply.
Conservatives just want cheap labor and activate the entire reserve army of labor to achieve the necessary oversupply.
All of you corporate sack suckers need grilling.

>>128931833
>The people complaining about the minimum wage have no idea how to balance their budgets

It's not just that, they have absolutely ridiculous standards for what is "livable". What is insane about this is these people literally want to shift away all burden of responsibility for their own lives. It's not "I should learn how to manage my money", it's "the employer should pay for my irresponsible spending".

Their skills are not worth much, so they aren't paid much. The reality is that even homeless americans are fat, and even the poorest of our society live better than most people in the world. But their expectations are so ridiculous that they want to be totally comfortable just for flipping burgers. That's not how it works, and it can't work that way.

One thing America is eventually going to need to undergo is the working class actually being willing to work competitive hours or work competitively. Most of us have gotten so slovenly and we expect so much that businesses would just rather hire other less entitled people.

But then the problem comes right back and bites us in the ass because the slovenly americans with no work ethic just get gibmedats and governmentbux. The only way this is ever going to be fixed is if some fat Americans actually have to starve and know what it's like to actually work hard for a living again instead of being handed comfort for nothing.

>>128933163
Look, I'm not libertarian myself but when more than half of the GDP is allocated by the government, it's not libertarianism.

>>128930446
Lots of people aren't that smart. If you're smart that's very nice for you but it's not like it makes you somehow virtuous. You were born with it and part of the basis of morality is that you tolerate those who are weaker than you and give them a chance

>>128933696
So what? Libertarianism is a crackpot religion just like any other ideology.

>>128933064
>"consensual" financial experiences under the threat of financial ruin actually do hurt others.

How do you define consent then? Maximum individual utility with no constraints? Because by your logic, I could say that every wage that doesn't make be a billionaire is unfair.

>>128929650
i own a business its my own business i cant afford to pay myself a full salary because theres not enough money therefore i should quit my company and live on welfare instead

>>128933064
>Because consensual bedroom experiences don't bother anyone outside of that bedroom, but "consensual" financial experiences under the threat of financial ruin actually do hurt others.

Employers don't threaten potential employees with low wages, dingbat. Life does that. Your employer is not obligated to make your life good. He is obligated to pay you the wage you both agreed to. It's not his fault that you have to eat, and your problems are not his problems.

I fucking hate commies and their retarded "wages are SLAVERY, dude!" bullshit. Life is slavery. You have to fucking survive and fight to survive. You are not entitled to existence and being a lazy shit for nothing.

That sounds almost like an argument for serfdom. That employment places a responsibility on the employer for the welfare of it's employees.

I shouldn't be surprised to see idiotic marxists arguing for a return to serfdom but here we are.

>>128933243
>implying I am, have been, or likely will be on the bottom rung

I am certainly never going to be Trump levels of prominence, but I am on the path to reach levels of influence proportional to the effort exerted. Starting at the age of around 12, I began tailoring every professional and education-centric decision toward my determined goal. For the better part of two decades I have deliberately chosen jobs and interests which serve to build an impressive resume in my field. I have kissed the asses of those worthy of being kissed, and avoided the influence of those doomed to mediocrity. I concede that a degree of this success has come simply from my station in life, which draws on my previous point that we should act to equalize opportunity where possible provided it is not at the expense of the overall principle.

Get your communist drivel out of here - you are either bellend or a manipulator, but either way your mindset is detrimental to human success.

>>128929942
So, where to go after a 12h work day? Into the woods and eating dirt? How can you keep your body healthy until far 60ties if you live under a bridge? London already has two boroughs with closed Policestation and Hospital, because they couldn't pay rent/living costs for those jobs.

But I'm guessing you can shoot the criminals and fix your broken leg with a band aid, as long people make 0.01c/h for you.

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>>128929650
>Asking people to work below poverty wages...

(((You))) don't have to take that job. If that job is all that you are skilled enough to do, the fault can only fall on one person.

Hint: It's (((You)))

faggots itt must all be neets because the bitch is actually right

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Fuck your entitled pinko, commie, scum, bullshit.

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>>128933064
Lol. Nah.

Just an electrician who sees the real world for what it is, and not what your average Bernie supporter wishes it be like.

Most business owners take on a huge amount of risk and responsibility just by remaining open. Even most chain restaurants are ran and owned by a person, not the corporation behind the name. You can only pay out what you bring in. Just because the ceo of Mc Donalds makes 1.6 million doesn't mean that any of that money would ever make a difference at the store front level because it'd never be seen by any of the employees. You could literally remove their salary and disperse it equally amongst every employee and it'd equate to a couple pennies an hour at most. Most small and medium businesses only see just enough money to keep the doors open, the employees paid, and the "owner" modestly compensated after expenses are considered.

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>>128929650
SEATTLE MIN WAGE $15/HOUR. 2.8% UNEMPLOYMENT.

RIGHT WING RETARD BILLIONAIRE GLOBALIST CORPORATE SHILLS OF (((POL))) HAVE BEEN ETERNALLY BTFO

>>128929650
Why do people think bubble inhabiting teenager's opinions are valid?

>>128934109
Nobody owes you shit. Survival is not a natural right, comfort even less.

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>>128930074
Spoken like a true Trump voter/conservative/Republican

>>128930975
Besides the legitimate survival thing, that is above that.

"If you can't afford to pay a living way you can't afford to be a business... BRB, employers are outsourcing for cheaper labour."


I don't think this person knows how economics work.

>>128929650

Don't like my wage? Don't work at my business. I'm not your mom or dad, I don't owe you shit.

>>128934079
It is serfdom. Left cucks are arguing for their bosses/leaders to give them the pay (resources) to live off of.

>>128933527
Liberals want total destruction of society so you have no loyalties left except to the state

>>128929650
Yes

>>128934109
>So, where to go after a 12h work day? Into the woods and eating dirt? How can you keep your body healthy until far 60ties if you live under a bridge?

Love this mentality. Yeah, people throughout history always lived in comfortable houses, right? Nobody ever raised a family in poverty. They were all given assisted living and plenty of McDonald's to get by.

You're fucking daffy. The issue here is that you think anything below comfortable all expenses paid living is unacceptable, and that everyone should be entitled to an apartment or something. The truth of the matter is, you could be absolutely homeless, and if you aren't a fucking idiot and know the areas where you can shower and use basic tools to keep your appearance relatively decent, you could work a job.

Our poor actually have abundance. The problem is that they're so picky and used to exuberance that it isn't enough for them. They are not content with food every day. It has to be food they *like*. They have to enjoy life, it has to all be sunshine, entertainment, and rainbows.

>>128931861
>raise minimum wage
raising minimum wage encourages illegal behaviour
>enforce the law better

Yeah we can try to fix two problems or not cause one problem.

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>>128929650
Don't work somewhere you can't make enough money to live. Demand for labor will increase, then they will be forced to increase wages.

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>>128934868
>then they will be forced to increase wages.

That's a good way to destroy the economy.

>>128929650
What people like this don't realize is that adults who work for minimum wage are complacent unambitious brainlets who are perfectly fine working their shit job and then sitting mindlessly in front of the TV. If you improve their wages they might have some extra money to spend on useless products, but ultimately they aren't going to change shit about their lives because they are retarded pond scum who are okay with mediocrity. They are minimum effort people, that's why they want daddy to give them a better minimum wage, because they know in their hearts that they will never seek opportunities and improve their circumstances on their own. And they're perfectly content with that. Gods and clods.

I graduated with a degree in Mathematical Economics from a good school. One of the first things covered in Econ 202; Macroeconomics is the fallacies of price floors and ceilings. Creating a minimum wage that the liberals want to raise oh so dearly will not only artifically raise the price of everything else but hurts the workers in those industries.

It provides a mechanism for corporations to 'collude' without colluding on the lowest possible that they have to pay for entry level shit workers who are essentially waiting to be replaced by automation.

I don't know the hsitory of the minimum wage I'm sure they weren't ill intended when they created it to begin with but its allowed coorporations to pay bottom dollar and employees essentially have no way to negotiate pay upon hiring because... the same position everywhere else pays the same.

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>>128934494
I wonder how many of those are h1b visa holders that are payed under the minimum wage legally by dangling permanent residency/citizenship in front of them.

>>128933934
Utility doesn't have anything to do with consent.
How do you define duress, then?
>>128934042
>Employers don't threaten potential employees with low wages, dingbat
They don't need to. They simply arrange for society to do so with their advantages in deciding laws. You're a pretty shitty MBA student if you can't arrange for other people to do your work for you.
>Life is slavery
If we lined all you cucks up and shot you, this problem wouldn't exist and we wouldn't be having this conversation. Day of the grill when?
>but I am on the path to reach levels of influence proportional to the effort exerted. Starting at the age of around 12, I began tailoring every professional and education-centric decision toward my determined goal.
>cucked so hard as to think submission to authority was your own idea
That you are licking the boots of your future peers doesn't make you any less a submissive little cuck. Just try to do anything on your own initiative and see just how quickly you're taken down.

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>>128935067
0

>>128935067
you retards promised me that if Mr. Sheckelberg had to pay a higher min wage, unemployment would skyrocket.

Always you right wing retard billionaire globalist corporate cock holsters were wrong. >>128935184

>>128931312
Living wage is defined by Webster:
a wage sufficient to provide the necessities and comforts essential to an acceptable standard of living

So people will claim its acceptable to wipe your ass with newspapers you found on the street. And some would say that a black ass from the ink and dirt is not acceptable.

I don't understand why this is so hard. You know where the business is, where the people are living, the median cost of living at the lowest, and then we will often find out, that simply to stay in a one room shithole in London or NY you would have to earn $12 without catching rats for meals.

Use old iPhones and small Flatscreen TVs are available for $100 each, so this is barely relevant.

>>128933243
Awww, look. The little shit-eating antifag has no argument.

>>128933064
>The employee can and should steal
Nigger / summerfag spotted

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>>128929650
I agree. I'm a robotics integrator, with a startup in cooperative robotic systems. More people start demanding higher wages for tasks that are really not at all complex that a deadbeat like me can replace the better argument I have for the long term benefits of replacing obsolete individuals.
It makes it easier for me to sell the $20k package when they have someone demanding $20 per hour so that they can spend it on hair dye, random kickstarter/gofundme crap, and anti-trump t-shirts.

>>128934479
>Most business owners take on a huge amount of risk and responsibility just by remaining open
>an electrician
>doesn't know about sole proprietorships
You're still a cuck for not understanding that sole proprietorships and one-man shops are just as much businesses.
>being this cucked to some fantasy idea of business as owning people
>>128934765
>Liberals want total destruction of society so you have no loyalties left except to the state
True, and I say gas them all. Leftists want the working class to be loyal to one another and overthrow the management class. Know the difference. It could save your life.

>>128934494
Obamaleaf, or just a regular leaf?

It's a stupid argument, aside from being a cherrypicked sample of 1. Do you believe police cause crime? Amount of police in a city and level of crime certainly has a positive correlation.

>>128931335
So, the fully robot future is the extreme version of the "gig economy" where everybody is self employed and we degenerate back to 1:1 hunting for survival for the bits the overlords drop into the ocean of hungry one man shops? Why should anyone want to live in this kind of dystopia and be fine with it?

>>128935532
fuck off and die youre an imbecile and a prick

>>128929650
No because it's not like that human doesn't have agency over oneself. Nobody's forcing them to work that job. It's why I don't get the fucking hubbub about zero hours. I worked a zero hours for a couple years, I had the choice to leave at any time.

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>>128935582
right wing retard billionaire corporate cock holster gets btfo on the minimum wage so he dindus onto crime and police which have nothing to do with this thread

>>128934548
wtf I hate immigrants now

>>128935184

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2017/04/05/seattles-2-9-unemployment-rate-tells-us-nothing-about-the-effects-of-seattles-minimum-wage-rise/

>Sure, it’s lovely that unemployment in Seattle dips under 3%. But an attempt to tie that drop in the unemployment rate to the minimum wage isn’t going to work. For we can as easily note that the unemployment rate has dropped everywhere in the US over this same time period and the minimum wage hasn’t risen everywhere over that time period. We’ve not even got a consistent correlation between minimum wages and unemployment that is.

>Worth noting what my original prediction was. Specifically I pointed out that it would not lead to some howling wasteland where once an economy stood. Rather, that raising the price of low end labour would lead to less low end labour being employed. Quite why the propagandists are so irate over this observation is difficult to understand. If I said that raising the price of apples would mean people bought less apples they’d have shrugged their shoulders in agreement.

>Seattle’s falling unemployment rate tells us absolutely nothing about the effects of Seattle’s minimum wage rise. After all, national unemployment rates have fallen too but minimum wages haven’t risen across the country.

Correlation does not equal causation fwend.

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>>128935881
wtf i love billionaire globalist elites now

>>128929650
>if you clearly have a market opportunity you shouldn't take it

anti-capitalists, everyone.

>>128935080
>If we lined all you cucks up and shot you, this problem wouldn't exist and we wouldn't be having this conversation. Day of the grill when?

The point went over your head you fucking retard. Lining me up and shooting me isn't going to suddenly mean you have no need to eat, you god damn moron. You still need to fucking eat, and not a single person on this planet owes you food. So either go out in the wild and get it yourself, or earn it through a job.

You can say all this "sheeple" and "cuck" horse shit you want on here like the commie faggot teenager you are, but at the end of the day you are responsible for your own life. Your employer does not owe you a comfortable life for the mere fact that you exist, and they are not obligated to pay you a king's ransom for your ability to flip a fucking burger.

You are a braindead, entitled loser. And you will remain that way until you let go of your entitled, limpwristed commie beliefs.

>>128935694
>Why should anyone want to live in this kind of dystopia and be fine with it?

Because it's not a moral choice of being kind to others or not. Wealth doesn't come out of nowhere. It is created by hard work and risk taking. Socialist redistributionist policies penalise the productive elements who work and take risks and reward the parasite subhumans and life losers.

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>>128936013
AHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAH

TIM WORSTALL? AHAHAHA typical (((pol))) literally spouting billionaire globalist talking points.

This is the same retard author who promised higher Seattle unemployment because of the min wage when it was 4.3%. Now it's 2.8% and he says:
OY VEY GOOD GOY DON'T RAISE THE MIN WAGE! U MIGHT GET 2.9% UNEMPLOYMENT, STRONG WAGES AND A BOOMING ECONOMY!

When the billionaire globalist shillcucks of (((pol))) fight this hard against raising the minimum wage, you know it's a good thing for workers.

Your billionaire globalist corporate cock holster got eternally btfo

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>>128936013
>Correlation does not equal causation fwend.

AAHAHAHAHA you just btfo the entire right wing retard billionaire globalist corporate cock holster argument raising the min wage. You globalist cucks promised me that unemployment would go up. It didn't. You btfo your own entire cuck ideology.

>>128936013
>Correlation does not equal causation fwend
Except when the causation relationship is clear. If paying you costs more than what I can get out of your work, I won't hire you.

>national employment rate falls even where the minimum wage was not increased
>see see this one instance of a national trend is proof

Why are urbantards allowed to vote again?

http://web.archive.org/web/20110629183749/http://www.house.gov/jec/cost-gov/regs/minimum/50years.htm

>>128935048
>"I'm not paying you more because you would waste it on useless crap"
worst argument ever, you don't know what needs people have. also, you think that employers who hold on to their money do something worthwhile with it? no, they just buy an expensive car for their kid or buy some summer house they never visit.

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>>128929650
This cunt doesn't get supply and demand as well as free trade. What she proposes would work perfectly in a tariff-based trade policy, but that should be Rayciss, amirite?

>>128936190
Lining me up and shooting me isn't going to suddenly mean you have no need to eat
True, but it will mean that we won't need to work extra to feed your parasitic ass.
>not a single person on this planet owes you food
Without you and your muh ownership crap in the way, and your necessity for a growing population to feed your increasingly parasitic ass, the planet will provide plenty of food with about half the work.
>braindead, entitled loser
You are a cuck. Better to lose on my feet than guzzle cum on my knees.
>>128936275
>Wealth doesn't come out of nowhere. It is created by hard work and risk taking
Wealth isn't useful to society. Sufficiency is created by enough work and risk aversion. It's insane to reward people for taking risks with resources intended to supply others. Far from being lauded, these people should be run out of town on a rail.

>>128929650
I agree. Let's start with cracking down on businesses that exist because they employ illegal immegrants and pay them below minimum wage.

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>>128936320
lol wtf that image. mods are fucking with me lol. trying to give u retard a chance.

>>128936320
THE CORRECT CHART IS HERE. >>128936721

>>128931852
That is way to simplistic. There are products and target audiences for that product, who make only sense to produce when certain key financial data is met. If the available workforce is simply to expensive to produce the product, for example due to overheating the market (as we see in parts of San Francisco, Austin, NY...)
then the product is simply not build and the job simply not offered. To put it bluntly: one side can simply deny creating jobs because their "perceived" or "expected" earnings on the product isn't worth the hassle in their subjective view. So even with a positive ROI the job is not created. We see this kind of depression in a lots of places, notably in the supply chain for all kinds of industries. There was also collusion to keep hourly rates to run away, which caused legal troubles in the US. One side seems simply to opt out, regardless if the pure numbers and rules would suggest not to do so.

Its fascinating that one side can act whoever they see fit, but the other side has to abide to made up rules.

The only way everyone gets a living wage is if you beat the banks. That's all.

>>128936658
>supply and demand
Moving on to:
>>128936706
>Let's start with cracking down on businesses that exist because they employ illegal immegrants and pay them below minimum wage.
[orgasmic screeching]
This burger gets it.

>>128936702
>Wealth isn't useful to society. Sufficiency is created by enough work and risk aversion. It's insane to reward people for taking risks with resources intended to supply others. Far from being lauded, these people should be run out of town on a rail.

Wealth is useful to society because everyone's utility function says that more wealth >= less wealth. If you don't, I'd be glad to send you my bank details. You can also give me your computer, it's the product of evil risk taking.

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>>128936706>>128936931


you could make e-verify mandatory tmrw. Republicans would never do it tho. really makes you think

>>128933156
This might be true 20 years ago, but when Tesla drives your truck automatically, finding that bullet might be the best way to finally exit. There are many industries that don't have replacement options out there. If you are out, you are out, there is nothing to be done. If they where, they didn't need to open up coal mines for opiod zombies. Stop dreaming.

>>128929650

"If you can't afford a living wage, you can't afford a business"

I agree, that's why prices go up.

My question is, why don't they just decrease income taxes by the same % they want to increase wages? You know that the Gov makes extra income tax on the wage increases, and extra sales tax on the price increase.

If they dropped income and sales tax, the poor plebs would actually make the some money, but have considerable more spending power without getting a raise.

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>>128934868
MG34, Awesome.

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>>128936013>>128936320
>>128936443
>>128936721


TIM WORSTALL ETERNALLY BTFO

2014: We Can Predict The Effects Of Seattle's $15 An Hour Minimum Wage

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2014/06/03/we-can-predict-the-effects-of-seattles-15-an-hour-minimum-wage/#1dd5a61b4064

This $15 an hour in Seattle will be around 60% of the local median wage. We would therefore expect to see reasonably large unemployment effects.

OOPS

> We would therefore expect to see reasonably large unemployment effects.
> We would therefore expect to see reasonably large unemployment effects.
> We would therefore expect to see reasonably large unemployment effects.
> We would therefore expect to see reasonably large unemployment effects.


OY VEY GOOD GOY DON'T RAISE THE MIN WAGE! U MIGHT GET 2.9% UNEMPLOYMENT, STRONG WAGES AND A BOOMING ECONOMY!

When the billionaire globalist shillcucks of (((pol))) fight this hard against raising the minimum wage, you know it's a good thing for workers.

>>128929650
>implying that those who pay below that meme called "living wage" force the people to sign contracts with them
>implying those who sign contracts with the so called "entitled at its finest" are not aware that they're gonna be paid below that entitled living wage
Women are so fucking dumb because "muh feelings" area in their brains always overrides the "muh common sense" area in their brains

>>128934494
If nobody has money in the future of the "gig economy" of 5$/h - to whom will dead cities centers sell their 8,5h LatteWithVanillaCream to? Americans tend to overspend for shit. They need money to do so. If they have no money, the city dies.

>>128929650
If u can't afford to live off the wage, don't work for me company. You consent by signing the employment agreement. Stupid socialists.

>>128936702
>True, but it will mean that we won't need to work extra to feed your parasitic ass.

A commie calling me a parasite. Classic. You are a fucking idiot. My entire point is that business owners aren't obligated to pay you more than you're worth, and yours is that they should pay you more for no reason, and if you are against demanding free shit for existing then you're a bootlicking cuck or some stupid shit. You're a fucking retard, and projecting super hard about what a worthless leech you are.

>Without you and your muh ownership crap in the way, and your necessity for a growing population to feed your increasingly parasitic ass, the planet will provide plenty of food with about half the work.

Yeah and magic food farts will fly out of my ass and feed all the hungry and we'll just have magic endless food supplies for endless nigger babies because my imagination says so. You ignorant fucking child.

>You are a cuck. Better to lose on my feet than guzzle cum on my knees.

Oh the projection. You are literally on your knees begging for big daddy corporation's big load of cum because what little he is feeding you isn't enough, because you are too much of a weak faggot to actually EARN your own way. You are so genuinely worthless and so genuinely unskilled that you need to beg the government to intervene on your behalf so that you can leech off of actual successful people. You want to be spoonfed your semen because you're too weak to stand on your own.

You are the cuck, and a shameless cum guzzling cuck at that. Keep dreaming about free stuff, brah. After all, you're entitled to a mansion from your employer because you like...show up to do an inconsequential job and stuff! Faggot.

>>128934023
sounds like your business isn't viable

>>128929650
> living wage
> acting as if thats a real thing
> will never allow themselves to be nailed down to a number
> will never explain how everybody having more money will not cause price inflation
> all hand-waving, virtue signalling and "Think Odf The Children!!!"

if you think you deserve a "living wage" but no employer will give it to you, you MAY be overestimating your value.

dumb cunt.

>>128929650

Holy Shit. These people need to get this thru their heads. A job is NOT A RIGHT!!!!

There should be no minimum wage and people can get paid according to their value.

No skills, you want fries with that? Be happy you are getting ANYTHING AT ALL!!!!

Fuck people! Increase your worth by attaining skills that are valuable in the marketplace.

This topic is not that hard.

>>128936931
If tariffs were put in place, there would be no legitimate reason to employ illegal beaners and underpay them. This should be the objective of every government, provide for all its productive sectors a friendly environment so it isn't forced to pay slave wages to illegals but normal wages to actual citizens. This should be the objective of every single policy maker, provide for your population, not for the companies that ship overseas their production lines.

There is no need to even argue anyway. No one will hire these whiny cunts even if they bitch on facebook. Should have thought twice before majoring in retarded shit.

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>>128936320
anyone else seeing this? my chart got nuked lol.

>>128929650
>Do you agree?

To a degree.

Modern employers have to be the most entitled faggots to ever exist on the planet.

They pay shit, expect no DEMAND you give up your personal life to be a wage slave and work 70+ hours a week.

Got the flu so bad you cant even get out of bed? TO FUCKING BAD. Get your ass to work or il replace you.

Also these faggots lobby governments to open borders so they can hire brown workers that they can exploit even more.

>>128929650
Then I just simply hire cheap replaceable Mexican workers, and if you call me out for indentured servitude I'll call you a racist for not wanting to give these people a chance at a better life.

boom, leftist defeated with their own poison.

>>128934857
That's the problem with the discussion. One side says "I have no warm water" and the other replies "then sell one of your 20 playstations and fifty iPhones you are constantly buying".

You are claiming that there are shitholes in LA or NY you could live for a certain amount of time, where your live isn't threatened. One way commute raised from 30 minutes to over one hour by 30% in certain parts of the US. So to get to the 8h work day, you also need 2h to waste to get there, because there are no options. Slowly companies, who lose people because of that are thinking out of the box and move their back offices into the outlands. They wouldn't do this just for kek.

>>128937522

Yeah that's not how reality works.

>>128937964
Up to you to go into another field that pays better. Why should they take my money and give it to people that were too stupid to graduate from high school and do not have any useful skills to earn a living?

>>128936995
>You can also give me your computer, it's the product of evil risk taking.

The device that turned the world into a techno police state dystopia where nobody is allowed to have a gender? Gee thanks for that (((risk taking))), richfag.

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>>128930590
This is basically the issue. If you want a middle-class lifestyle, you need a middle-class job. If you want a middle-class job, you need to learn a skill that merits it or be educated enough to get your foot in that door.

You cannot expect to earn a comfortable and luxurious life with no marketable skills or education and an unwillingness to put forth more than minimal effort. Don't try to make yourself out to be any more than the worthless replaceable labor unit you are.

>>128937964
Thank you! It blows my mind how no one itt can see it. Probably a bunch of rich kids in here.

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>>128937964
They're lucky that they always have the right wing retard cucks on their side. The most demented species on the planet.

>>128935184
>>128936013

http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/01/07/seattle-mayor-ed-murray-illegal-immigration-250k-protect-illegal-immigrants-trump

Seattle's mayor is setting aside taxpayer money in order to protect illegal immigrants from possible deportation under President-elect Donald Trump.

Mayor Ed Murray said up to $250,000 will be spent on a plan to help immigrant families.

While the Seattle Foundation hopes to raise some of the funds, according to the Seattle Times, the city plans to hold forums throughout the city to provide information to families who fear deportation.


http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/03/30/522030259/seattle-sues-trump-administration-over-sanctuary-city-threat

Report: Seattle is $6,600 in Debt for Every Taxpayer

http://www.truthinaccounting.org/news/detail/report-seattle-is-6600-in-debt-for-every-taxpayer

>When ranked amongst the 20 most populous cities in the U.S., Seattle has the tenth worst taxpayer burden.


Seattle runs on borrowed time and illegal immigration.

>>128936995
>>128936995
>Wealth is useful to society because everyone's utility function says that more wealth >= less wealth
Individual utility functions are sociopathic. In fact, happiness, which we might use as a proxy for utility functions exclusive of social influence, does not increase beyond a certain level of income.
>You can also give me your computer, it's the product of evil risk taking.
>muh moral abstinence
>never heard of WWII or the Bell System
I owe ignorant cunts nothing.
>>128937545
>My entire point is that business owners aren't obligated to pay you more than you're worth
They are if society says there are. Economics and politics are inseparable. Obligations and "worth" are determined by society, not by some muh rational actor playing vidya.
>Yeah and magic food farts
>is so accustomed to sucking daddy's dick that he can't possibly think of doing something without being told to
Liberals like you will be eliminated for not contributing to the common good, and I'm not shy about not needing some mystical numbers game to decide whether you're useful or not.
>>128937808
>This should be the objective of every government
>should be
>flag.jpg
I agree. However, capitalism needs helots, and liberalism manufactures them. Sorry about the troika raping you btw.

>>128938407

So why are you typing to us if your computer is a risk and a work of the devil you retarded fucking hypocritical leaf? Jesus christ. How is it possible for you commie fucks to be this deliberately retarded? Just hand over all of your EVVVILLL tools of capitalism and fuck off to some hippie commune already.

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>>128938639
There's no end to right wing retard cuckery for the billionaire globalist elites

>>128938765
how much are they fucking paying you jesus christ
will you ever give up on this shit
you aren't converting anyone you're literally screaming into a "right wing retard echo chamber"
this is an exercise in insanity

>>128936275
As long the people are buying stuff, you are right. But what if the people simply refuse to do so? They are not forced to buy anything. We have seen strikes in Italy and France in the 90ties that can bring society to halt for weeks. Its irrelevant if this is possible in this day and age, the question will ask itself: do I need to continue with this inhumane nonsense or do we have other answers? Thats exactly the reasoning of those from the south that sit in little boats and rather drown then accept the unacceptable. And as the world goes forward, someone some when will ask this question, when 90% of menial jobs will be done by robots, but still too many mouthes to feed.

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>>128938703
Thanks for admitting that you retards promised that a $15/hour min wage would boost unemployment and kill the economy yet the exact opposite happened. You got btfo so badly that u have to dindu hard onto other things that have absolutely nothing to do with this thread and have to resort to posting fake news about long term capital funding

>>128929650
You're not supposed to earn a living and raise a family by sweeping floors
You're supposed to be successful before you have kids
Asking for other people to subsidise your desire to be lazy and not apply yourself is entitlement get fucked commies

>>128938361
there are no better paying fields, nigger. did you ever even look for a job? EVERY employer out there wants to work you to death for like 700 euros a month.
jesus fuck, it's like you faggots actually WANT to be slaves...

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>>128938935
continue being mad that I've eternally btfo you right wing retard billionaire globalist corporate cock holster shills

>>128929650
Ask her if Jamal in Bangladesh who can only get paid £1 a day making t-shirts 16 hours a day, should get a living wage.

She only speaks for herself and those around her. It doesn't apply outside her circle. Any other fantasies she'd like to implement into reality?

>>128938724
>They are if society says there are.
Yes, but that means that business should have the right to make enough money to be able to pay workers the amount they should be paid.

So if your business can't make the extra money required, it deserves to go out of business. Essentially, any small business that is struggle suffers, and major corporations (like walmart) just eat the price difference and push people out.

So, yes. In your communist Utopia of equal wages for all, corporations will reign supreme and block all competition. They will give everyone the false sense of "income equality" by raising minimum wage, raising taxes, and dropping corporate taxes to allow businesses to remain successful.

Otherwise, business can set their own wages, and people can come and go as they please or change jobs if they want a better income. It's silly that someone who hates their job deserve a middle class income.

>>128929650
Nigguhs snitching again.

>>128929650
>t. Wal-Mart head of marketing

>>128939202
why don't you just become a fucking nazi if you hate jews so much you fucking nutjob

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>>128939238
Typical right wing retard globalists. Always more concerned with Bangladesh than those in their own country.

>>128938724
>They are if society says there are. Economics and politics are inseparable. Obligations and "worth" are determined by society

So basically might makes right is the appeal you're going for. You reject the idea that an employee should be worth precisely what their skills and the market necessity makes them worth, but say that popular consensus among the retarded masses should dictate their wages and they should be allowed to strongarm employers into paying them more than they're worth.

You are genuinely, without a doubt, functionally braindead.

>Liberals like you will be eliminated for not contributing to the common good

I'm a conservative leaning centrist, you braindead commie fuck. You're the far left "fuck the establishment, maaaannn!" cuck that thinks we should spread the wealth.

You are not worth responding to. No more (You)'s. You can die living your unskilled NEET lifestyle while begging for big daddy government's scraps for the rest of your life like the bottom feeding leech you are. I have nothing to say to garbage like you.

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>>128939380
Just cause I hate Trump, that doesn't make me a nazi ok lol

>>128938724

>Individual utility functions are sociopathic

Yeah, we know man, everyone who is not a communist who loves to work for shitskins belongs in a mental yard.

>happiness, which we might use as a proxy for utility functions exclusive of social influence, does not increase beyond a certain level of income

Fake news. Happiness is not reliably measurable, and certainly not through a "survey" like in the studies you're referring to. Look at what people do, not what they say in a shitty poll. Revealed utility shows what people want, and they want more wealth.

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rhetorical question i presume

i firmly suggest gladiatorial combat be reinstated and broadcast on all channels at prime time, these poor people can fight to the death for a happy meal

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>>128929650
Why does this never apply to farmers/restaurants that get away paying slave wages by hiring illegal immigrants?
Natives don't want to do manual labor in the summer heat for 0.50$ an hour? Guess that's just one of those jobs americans DON'T WANT to do!

>>128930590
Agree!

I don't know what people are expecting. I got a job for a few years after high school that paid $14 per hour and I lived like a king. Granted, I did live in Iowa, but big cities historically have never been cheap. $15 an hour wouldn't even help people in a mid size city like Kansas City.

>>128939518
So then how is Trump liking Jews a bad thing exactly?

>>128939153
That's because (i) you probably are not educated or have majored in retarded shit; (ii) you insist in staying in your bankrupt and corrupted country. This is your problem, not mine.

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>>128939701
t. /nu/pol

>>128939073

What are you talking about?
Seattle is the 10th most indebted city in the country. The Government might look good, but it also borrows a ton of money. It's vulnerable.

What evidence is there that the minimum wage decrease unemployment and doesn't just push out workers who are not qualified, and attracts illegal immigration to get around the wages?
2011

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/illegal-immigrant-numbers-in-state-jump-35-in-3-years/
>An estimated 230,000 illegal immigrants were living in Washington state last year — 35 percent more than three years earlier, according to a new report by the Pew Hispanic Center. The total represents one of every 20 workers in the state.

Considering how north they are, they sure do live their illegal immigration.

>>128929650
If she can't make ends meet on what they're paying her she should just get a better paying job. Expecting an employer to pay her what she considers to be a living wage reeks of privilege and entitlement.

Gonna laugh my ass off when minimum wage goes up to $15 and McDonalds replaces everyone with robots in response.

>>128939898
No, I simply want you to explain how it's a bad thing without going full 14/88 leaf

>>128929833
Go back to plebbit where you belong you fucking hippie.

>>128934546
"life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"

>>128938434
I have friends who studied Civil Engineering and similar fields. They got baited by corporations and smaller helper shops with "an good job", just with two or three years of 60h/weeks without overtime comp and 30% less. After three years they got thrown out burned out and replaced by next idiots. When talking about this on the net, they get harsh calls from lawyers that what they are spouting could be classified as libel. There are simply not enough middle class jobs left in certain countries of the west, and no naive "go, learn!, get into the dirt!" will solve this. And you can't open a one pop shop in many Engineering fields. The big corporation pushed lots of certifications that require that you have at least 10 full paid staff members to even perform certain jobs. The system is fully rigged, options are few to none. And people are realizing, that they are sold ideas from the 80ties that simply don't hold their water anymore.

>>128939847
both wrong, nigger
1. I majored in tourism
2. It's not a country problem, it's a western capitalism problem

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>>128940075
i love it when u retards larp

>>128929650
>nobody should have a job

Weird argument.

>>128940238
>bashes jews
>immediately sucks a sub-par president's dick because he was a fucking nigger
you're the worst fashy goy i've ever seen

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>>128939966
So you just admitted that raising the min wage doesn't increase unemployment? You btfo your entire cuck ideology.

You got btfo so badly you're trying to dindu onto other topics that have absolutely nothing to do with what we're talking about.

Seattle also has the 11th highest GDP in the country you fucking retard.

>>128934857
What the fuck is wrong with you

>>128940206

You are free to live here and you are free to pursue a life of happiness. Nowhere does it guarantee your comfort and survival. Only that the government should attempt to enforce an equal opportunity for its citizens to pursue that happiness, not that all citizens will be happy and comfortable and taken care of for free. Jesus christ.

>itt: /pol/ forgets that wages have not increased at all while inflation has over the past 20 years
>itt: edgy teenage bootlickers suck the sweaty, shitty taint of CEOs who refuse to pay their workers more so they can bring in the big bux
Costco treats their employees very well and they're still fucking around

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>>128940396
Actually Obama was the greatest of all time and u retards only hated him because he was mean to Israel

>>128938234
>That's the problem with the discussion. One side says "I have no warm water" and the other replies "then sell one of your 20 playstations and fifty iPhones you are constantly buying".

Sounds like The Kosher Sandwich - the way this issue is typically framed, no matter which side you take, it benefits the jews. Most people take either of two positions: oppose the min wage because muh free market, or support the min wage because muh living wage. If you take the free market side you are supporting (((corporations))), if you take the other side you are supporting (((socialism))). Either way, (((they))) win. Good goyim!

Bad goys should point out that the cost of labor is low because of immigration and progressivism. I.e. too many immigrants in the workforce, and too many women in the workforce increase the supply of labor, driving down wages. If you want high wages, deport illegals, encourage women to have children and be stay-at-home mothers and wives to traditional fashy goys instead of shitting out 5 kids to 5 diferent tyrones and then being forced to work shit tier jobs all the while competing with similarly burdened single mothers.

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>>128933869
>any other ideology.

>tfw too smart to conform to an ideology

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>>128940569
>>itt: edgy teenage bootlickers suck the sweaty, shitty taint of CEOs who refuse to pay their workers more so they can bring in the big bux

pol in a nutshell

well done

A simple confusion on /pol/'s end: wages don't represent the actual labor activated but rather the amount of wage-goods a worker needs to suitably reproduce themselves for a given job. Wages aren't about how hard you work.

Furthermore, wages are politically determined given the competing expectations of goods each person needs to suitably reproduce themselves. In such case, force decides. The firm is entitled to nothing. Labor is entitled to nothing. At least not formally. But if labor can utilize its collective strength (unions, the state, etc.) to win wage increases then tough shit for firms.

>>128940563
>Survival is not a natural right
>You are free to live here
And you don't think those two things don't contradict each other?

>>128940526

Nothing. What the fuck is wrong with you? Are you going to actually make an argument or just tell me that my post upset you?

>>128929650
No, teenagers' job are not meant to buy a new car, home and expensive shit

>>128938724
>However, capitalism needs helots, and liberalism manufactures them. Sorry about the troika raping you btw.

I disagree, capitalism doesn't need helots, crony capitalism does. Take Henry Ford for example. Arguably one of the capitalist icons, he didn't made hi workers helots, quite the fucking contrary. And he was smart enough to understand that if his product can be bought from his employees this would be his most loyal base, a radical thought for the automotive world back then.

You can be capitalist without being a globalist.

About my country, shit's fucked m8

>>128929650
Yes.
National socialism.
That is all i have to say.

>>128939153

I hate immigration, don't give a shit about gay rights but I'm not a sheep, some (originally leftist) policies are good and the idea that the rich don't get to screw over the average worker is not a bad one. People here need to remember that we aren't forced to believe everything a party stands for to support it.

>>128940706
Glad you support a living wage for everyone over 18 then

>>128940424
Do the math.

If every 1 in 20 workers is illegal, they are technically not employed, because they are not citizens. Nor are they making minimum wage. Or paying tax.

That means the unemployment rate is actually 2.9% of the entire population PLUS 1/20th of the current working population.
That's huge.
That's not a low unemployment rate, that's just a large portion of the working population making below minimum wage.

>>128940597
it's almost as if the guy has sympathies that lie with muslims because the fucking guy was raised as one

>>128929650
The problem is in places like Canada where things like cost of land are becoming hyper inflated its literally not business owners greed. Unless youre a multi billion dollar corporation youre not making much and if youre a small business owner youre basically making just 2 or 3 dollars over what your employees make. And not to mention a true "living wage" is around $20 now due to inflation of both living costs and the currency itself

Government needs to fix the fucking mess they created by opening the borders, letting china fuck up our cost of land, selling our resource extraction to the chinese and taking half of everyone's earnings and sending them to third world shitholes as "aid" so the dictator and his friends can build an extension to their palaces with it.
If youve created the conditions where the only people who can afford to pay a living wage are corporations with billions of dollars and your policies are the reason a "living wage" is so high in the first place you have no business telling me or anyone else in the country what they have to fucking do. When there are 15 year olds who propose better economic plans than you do maybe you shouldnt be in charge of running the economy or the country at all and if you sell out our citizens to a hostile power like china you dont belong writing any legal document besides writing your will before youre sent to face the firing squad for treason.

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>>128930590

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>>128940597
>Obama was great
>After his 8 years are up, all 3 branches of government became Republican and America voted for Donald fucking Trump, Obama's polar opposite, into power because they just LOVED life under Democrats

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>>128929650
>obamaleaf autistically shitting up another thread
you realize if you stopped replying to this idiot he would likely kill himself or piss off right?

>>128929650
>Wage increase

Personally I find that is a personal issue between employer and employee. To the point, work hard, better pay.

>>128930712
The problem is not that cost of labour is too low the problem is the cost of living is hyper inflated because of globalism.

We wouldnt have to throw money at the side effects if we just cured the fucking sickness

>>128940889
something something RIGHT WING RETARDS something something JEWS something something GOD I LOVE THIS NIGGER DICK

>>128929650

Gosh, I wonder what would happen if people didn't accept wages they can't live on. Almost like businesses would have to pay more to attract workers.... Almost like this problem could solve itself.

But then you have people just taking low wages and whining about the wage they accepted....

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>>128940851
Obama killed more Islamic terrorists than any president. Right wing retards hated him for it.

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>>128929650
a living wage is relative, not to mention hours are messed up in the service industry

>>128940695

No. Because living(existing) and survival are two separate things. The DoI does not promise to ensure that you survive and live a life of happiness, you idiot. It promises to protect the pursuit of happiness and the opportunity. Do you understand the difference?

The government's job is to attempt to ensure fairness. It is not the government's job to make sure you're always happy and comfortable. While the government does have an obligation to try and enforce peace and allow you to not be under threat of violence/murder(and in that sense, they do protect your survival), they are not obligated to ensure that you earn a living or properly take care of yourself. Nobody can stop you from committing suicide if you choose not to try to compete or earn your food.

>>128931111
Because the cost of living is over inflated

>>128929942
Or they increase the cost of their service/product (along with everyone else) so that new living wage still isnt enough to afford anything.

>>128929650
The cost of living is rising, so wages, evenm for minimun, must rise as a result, or to kick the shit in out of factors that are making living on minimun wage so impossible nowadays compared to years ago. If you are working many, many hours a week, you should at leats be able to secure a living wage.

>>128929650
No.

I'll pay you what I damn well please and if you think it's not enough go get a different job. No one forces you to work here

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>>128940832
Are you fucking retarded? I gave you the charts of Seattle EMPLOYMENT and UNEMPLOYMENT. Employment has skyrocketed and unemployment has plummeted. $15/hour min wage. Where are the job losses u corporate shills promised?

>>128929650
Yes

>>128941110
>obama himself walked out to afghanistan and 360 noscoped bin laden

>>128940665
This
It's not worth trying to argue common sense points against uneducated tweenage boors, bombarded with political messaging to the point that they advocate against their own economic best interest

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>>128940889
The American people voted for a continuation of Obama.

You right wing retards have a hard time with this don't you?

>>128941134
in 1950s america
the average senpai lived in a small 2 bd house with one bath
cheap clothing
and only ate out like once a month

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>>128941041
>being this triggered by me.

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>>128938765
>robert reich
>a softer, gentler neoliberal
Nigger talks a good game, but no.
>>128939314
>business
>rights
>imaginary friends
>rights
Why, it's almost as if you think businesses === people and are therefore entitled to exist.
> 128939484 (You)
>So basically might makes right is the appeal you're going for
Not at all. Society makes right. At the moment, society is cucked into believing that licking massa's boots creates wealth and value, because might makes that relationship apparently valid.
>thinks everyone needs an employer
You are so cucked. Tell me more about one-man shops, you sexy second-year business student on mommy's tab, you.
>conservative leaning centrist
Conservative, classical, libertarian, ALL LIBERAL. You are liberal and you are therefore a worthless human being outside of the market in which you slut your degenerate autistic self.

>>128940810
But it's not even leftist way of thinking ffs! Its meritocracy 101. If I work 70 hours a week and make you a ton of money, I deserve to be paid accordingly.

>>128941234
People living in Seattle were already making above the minimum wage and are largely unaffected.

>>128940665
>he doesn't know that 90% of CEOs are employees, not the actual shareholders

I bet you still got acne sonny boy

>>128929650
Go ahead and raise the minimum wage to $30/hr. People will still pay under the table cash money.

This accomplishes nothing but Starbucks hire fewer refugees and your POS coffee being raised to $3.

>>128941325
senpai

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>>128941268
If that mission failed, right wing retards would totally give Obama a pass

>>128941368
Then you should negotiate a higher wage

>>128929650

"If a job is worth being done, then it's worth being paid enough to live".

Yes and no. If a job is worth being and I, as a business owner, have a choice between paying someone to do it or to invest in technology to do it, I will choose the later.

Paying for the technology keeps multiple people employed that are doing far more good for our society versus paying $15/hour person who asks, "uwan frice wit dat?".

The whole "society owes me" mentality is alien to me. How can anyone wake up everyday and actually believe that?

>>128938434
>You cannot expect to earn a comfortable and luxurious life with no marketable skills or education and an unwillingness to put forth more than minimal effort. Don't try to make yourself out to be any more than the worthless replaceable labor unit you are.

Well it's not like education is cheap. You take a huge risk when you start studying; if you fail not only will you have wasted years of your life, you'll also be burdened with massive amounts of debt.

Even if you earn a good degree there is no guarantee that a well-paid job is waiting for you. The odds are good that you'll be competing with H1b pajeets who are grateful for half the salary you'd expect because their student debt is denominated in fucking rupees or whatever Zelda bullshit currency they use, and they are used to 3rd-world living conditions, so will be ok with renting a $300/mo shithole on MLK boulevard.

>I never worked before but I'll tell people how companies should operate

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>>128941392
CEOs who fuck over their own workers you cuck

pay denbts

you corporate cock holsters are disgusting

>>128941495
that can be hard because foreigners drive wages down

>>128941409
yes yes people hated obama because he killed terrorists and not because of his fucking broken promises and of course the spying on of both foreign and american citizens
fuck you, you're a slimy, manipulative bastard

>>128929650
Working is a choice

>>128941234

Oh, you are autistic. Sorry, I thought you could understand my posts. You clearly have no concept of mathematics.

>>128941078
you expect 100% of the workforce to react the same way?

>>128929650
>Job doesn't pay a wage you can accept
>Don't do job
>Job doesn't get done
>Business goes under
>???????

People can afford to accept a less than living wage because the government is subsidizing their wage or they are a teenager living with their parents. If people couldn't afford to accept these wages then they wouldn't. A wage is a price and just about any knuckle dragger can figure out how to wash dishes so the price is low. The level of so called "living" these people expect is too high for some of these jobs. They watch too many sitcoms about baristas and think that such a job should afford them several nights out a week and extended booze ridden road trips. Your wage isn't too low your expectations are too high.

>>128941495
You can't negotiate a wage in a country that has over 30% unemployment. You suck the employers dick and say thank you.

>>128929650
>a business that can't afford a $15 minimum wage doesn't deserve to exist!
>we have to let in illegals, no one else will pick vegetables for that wage!

really makes you think doesn't it?

>only giant corporations should run businesses
>we have to have universal basic income

Could lefties be anymore in the bag of the elite?

>>128939540
>Revealed utility
>revealed
At least you're honest, that you're dealing in religion instead of reality.
>>128939978
And if the muh business class doesn't want to provide a better paying job?
Listen, NEET: if you expect me to revolve my life around you, then you had better fucking pay for the privilege.

Just kill all the spics and Jews and wages will increase and inflation will stop.

I mean why fuck around with labor laws when you can kill subhumans and oven fuel?

>>128941641
im mad at obama because he put me in time out

Mr Shekelstein's new yacht is more important than your life goy, never forget it.

>>128929650
>Do you agree?

No. Morons who support minimum wages or better yet "living wages" don't understand that prices rise and fall, and that how much money in your bank account says nothing about your purchasing power.

The moment you force a living wage, costs of living will rise, and suddenly that living wage is no longer livable anymore. But now people slightly higher up than you who didn't get a pay bump are now worse off because the things they buy are now more expensive.

This is nigger-level economics put out by socialists who don't know anything and have never built a god damn thing in their lives. They just bitch about working for people who do.

>>128941368
It's an economic fallacy known as "labor theory of value". If there is no demand for your work, you don't "deserve" anything.

>>128941353

Exactly, so you are suggesting that people should be paid equal wage for a service they provide?
There should be no financial benefit, just a service monopoly?

>>128941129
Fairness in what respect? If everything that is left is either sucking the dick of the guy who owns all the robots that will do 90% of the burger flipping, taxi driving and dry cleaning - or just dying, then "fairness" in this sense is just the insurance that you get the fair amount of cum.

I find it at least honest that some people come to the conclusion that if this is happening, the thinning of the herd, The Purge, Hunger Games etc. are inevitable IF (big IF) you want to keep the thing going as it is.

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>>128941650
you lost and have no more arguments left to give

Seattle. $15/hour min wage. 2.8% unemployment. Booming employment.

Nothing triggers you right wing retard billionaire globalist corporate cock holsters more than workers having the power. >>128941234

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>>128941724

>>128941685
Revealed utility = Utility function revealed through observing their actual actions and decisions, as opposed to what people state.

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>>128941729
t. entire conservative movement

>>128941653
If "the workforce" understood the concept then you'd see wages go up without intervention.

The free market works this way but people are being taught the government is the answer to all problems. They don't understand that instead of demanding the government intervene they could promote people just not accepting low wages they "can't live on"

>>128941826
I just told you that 1/20 workers are illegal and make less than minimum wage.
I'm not triggered, you just don't actually have a comeback to that because you are autistic.

>>128941826
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Seattle

i wonder why seattle works so well

>>128941923
i think you'll be happier shitposting in your anti-trump circlejerk subreddits back in reddit sweetie
you're going to fucking give yourself a brain aneurysm at some point

>>128941881
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iX4JA3DoSSY

>>128929650
Don't agree.

Pretty simple really. Let the living wage 20 something "know it alls" and 30+ "should know betters" figure out if they can own a business under those self imposed constraints. If they figure that out - they deserve to own a business. If they don't figure it out, the laws of math and limited resources will demonstrate that they don't.

>>128941813

Hunger games esque shit is inevitable anyways. We are going to end up with a surplus of humans with no real value after automation becomes widespread. What is the point in keeping a useless population alive and burdening those elites that do own those production facilities?

The government attempts to give equal opportunity. That's all it can really do. The problem you're describing is that everyone will have equal opportunity, which is to say almost no opportunity at all, because most humans simply won't be needed.

You can bet that down the line, there will be a culling.

>>128933096
I have a side gig from my regular job where I mix concrete for $20 an hour cash as an independent contractor.

The jobs are out there. I just do it on my weekends for cash to blow on guns/ammo and get a tan with a workout. It's hard fucking work.

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>>128941569
You realize that the wages are up to the board of directors and now the CEOs responsibility, right? You also realize that the board of directors is the shareholders, right?

You realize that you leftards have no fucking clue about what you are demanding and from whom, right?

You are a fucking joke, you lot

>>128941987
Wtf does that have to do with booming employment and 2.8% unemployment?

Do you understand BLS labor stats at all? >>128941234

Where are the job losses u corporate cucks promised?

>>128941923
Because losers like you don't believe they can make it big. They picture themselves only at the receiving end of redistribution and that's why they love taxes and government.

I believe in myself and I don't want to have to send my money to offshore banks because otherwise communists will take it and give it to some worthless pot smoker.

>>128942059
>>128942059
why r u so obsessed with me? you're obviously in love with me. do u stalk my twitter too?

>>128930590
Sixth post best post

>>128941766
who said there's no demand?

>>128942102
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2POembdArVo

>>128941661
Thats true, but I see this all around the South: the moment you have a company that works and you are not with some of the clans/mafia/right political circles, you will have lots of problems getting that paper that allows you to fill up your trucks. The unemployment in south of Europe is a symptom. Add in a unhealthy brain drain of the youth that still wants to do something (-500.000 in Greece, -one million in Spain, insane!), you are left with those that hope, but don't do anything.

>>128942237
and here he goes with his scripted lines again

>>128929650
UBI.

>>128942306
If there is enough demand for you to earn a "living wage", why are you complaining?

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>>128942163
Who are the biggest shareholders? Cleetus meth head Trump voter from Kansas? Or the billionare globalist elites that u right wing retards worship, serve and obey?

>>128940526

not an argument

>>128941110
>guy claims to not be a Nazi
>Loves Obama because he was anti Israel

>?????

Commie cognitive dissonance is the best.

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>>128942227
you can be a billionaire too if u just try hard enough!

>>128929650
No, she sounds like she's got actual brain damage. Normal healthy people aren't this stupid.

>>128941967
that's just utopic. people are desperate, if you turn down a job, someone else will take it.

>>128942445
>who are the biggest shareholders

It's -you've guessed it- the kikes. So how about gassing them?

>>128929650
wages should increase with inflation

this would mean you would get paid the same value for the same value of work you do year to year

>>128941165
This, why is this so hard to understand.
Company's wont eat the cost they NEVER will.
Minimum wage increases are a band aid solution that looks good on paper nothing more.

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>>128942476
I love Obama because the was the greatest of all time and saved America from a 2nd Great Republican Depression. I said u right wing retard billionaire globalist corporate shillcucks hated Obama because he was a little mean to Israel

>>128929650
>Implying employees are chained to their desks and locked in cages at their place of business every night.
If you want a living wage, go find one. If you have no skills that make you worth a living wage, go get some. If a business was forced to pay you a "living wage" that you aren't worth and they can't afford, it's not the business that's getting BTFO - it's your employment there that's getting BTFO. They'll fire two people who aren't worth a living wage and hire one that is.

>>128942310
Obama loved the world so much that he gave his only son treyvon so that who ever says black lives matter shall not perish but have a great 8 years

>>128942534
loving how you simply sperg out about MUH JOBS and never talk about obama's other domestic policy
including lying about closing gitmo and the surveillance bullshit

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>>128942630
I said billionaire globalist elites. Never said the k word. Stop larping just because you're getting btfo

>>128942237
>why r u so obsessed with me? you're obviously in love with me. do u stalk my twitter too?

>39+ posts in this thread

Hi obamaleaf. AKA, the NEET with no life who spends so much time shitposting pro-socialist crap on pol, that people can identify him even when posting anonymously.

If you aren't a NEET, you're a paid shill. Loser either way.

>>128942173

Because 1/20th of the workforce is being paid a lower wage than 15$ to do the same work.

Holy megamyth, batman!

Small employers (businesses with fewer than 500 employees) will reach a $15 an hour minimum wage in seven years. Also established is a temporary guaranteed minimum compensation responsibility of $15 an hour to be met within the first five years, which can be achieved by combining employer-paid health care contributions, consumer-paid tips, and employer-paid wages.

This article is 2015.
This isn't even implemented yet, and they can subtract benefits. Their unemployment was already at 3.3% prior to this being introduced.

I'd argue that Seattle has a low unemployment rate because...
http://dor.wa.gov/content/FindTaxesAndRates/IncomeTax/

>Washington State does not have a personal or corporate income tax.

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>>128942660

>>128942648
If by saved the country from a depression you mean subsidized a bunch of industries with taxpayer money, you're spot on senpai.

>>128942738
admit that you're a closet antisemite already you faggot

many small businesses have only about a 20-30% margin which is already pretty thin. none of these people asking for a living wage has ever seen the accounting for the place they work. it's hard enough giving my employees hours as it is and paying everybody twice as much without them working twice as hard just isn't feasible.

>>128929650
This argument is retarded. Wages are market driven. If companies offer low ages but people are willing to accept those low wages (instead of pursuing employment elsewhere) then that is inherent validation of the wage being offered.

If I wanted to pay you $1/hour but you could make $5/hour up the road, why wouldn't you go up the road and make the $5, and I'd be left hanging, either having to increase my hourly offering or not have employees.

>>128942396
huh? my boss makes the money, not me.

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>>128942771

>get job delivering newspapers as a 10 year old
>I should be able to support myself with the income I make from this job

When did a job become something you're supposed to be able to live off of instead of something to make some extra money?

>>128942674
>right wingers want to stop domestic surveillance and gitmo

What a world we live in....

>>128929650
Seems like an endless cycle of creeping inflation

How about bringing the cost of living down instead?

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>>128929650
>not understanding inflation
Opinion disregarded

>>128941813
>I find it at least honest that some people come to the conclusion that if this is happening, the thinning of the herd, The Purge, Hunger Games etc. are inevitable IF (big IF) you want to keep the thing going as it is.

There actual hedge fund managers who believe this shit and built bunkers to hide their assets and sit out the end of the organized state and the civil war that follows.

The only flaw with their plan is that China is going to gun their asses down and steal their shit as soon as they board their private jets.

>>128942623

>Taking a job you can't live on
>Wanting sympathy

>>128929650
When will grown ass adults, who are fully capable to learn a skill or trade, stop stealing minimum wage jobs from low income teenagers?

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>>128929650
>"If you can't afford to pay burger flippers the same amount you pay IT specialists, you don't deserve to be in business"

>>128942340
Our brain drain is proportionally higher as our population is 10 mil. Still the government is to blame for the cronyism that rules Greece. And for all our misery, there are still idiots that buy left wing gibsmedats. Protip: that's how Syriza got elected, free gibs

>>128942674
u retards are still splerging about gitmo? Obama reduced the gitmo population dramatically. there's only a few dozen detainees left and no country will take them. will u take them britard?

>>128942849

Because there's not limitless jobs offering that $5 an hour and people need money to live.

>>128942445
You're not familiar with the stock market. The biggest shareholders of public corporations (let alone other companies with similar shareholding structure) are generally pension funds and asset managers who serve mostly institutional clients (i.e. pension funds, sovereign wealth funds and endowments) and retail clients (banks who invest the savings of the average Joe).

Wealthy individuals are a small share of shareholding in most public corporations.

>>128942814
thy skittles were spilled of the son to pay for the sins of the US

Hope and Change 6:8-10

>>128942880
>it's an obama leaf is so insecure he digs around his colossal folder of bullshit images for some shit he saved from a 1 post by this id frog episode
stop jerking yourself off you commie prick

>>128942534
Billionaire will be hard but I'm gonna try. Millionaire is easy to reach for any guy with a triple digit IQ and above average work ethics.

>>128933064
>but "consensual" financial experiences under the threat of financial ruin actually do hurt others
>Some retarded politicians mandate businesses pay a living wage
>You get fired because you're nearly worthless
>Same retarded politicians make it illegal for businesses to fire people
>I stop working so hard because what's the point, the worthless employees who fuck around all day anyway can't get fired and are cutting into my prospects of a nice raise/bonus.
>Economy BTFO, just like everywhere this bullshit is tried.

>>128939661

Why is it too much to ask for a business to use honest business practices?

when business wants to super low-ball the labor market well below what the work is worth, the business should get fucked with zero applicants. That's that hand of the market at work, if the business wants labor to do the physical work, they out to pay a fair price for it.

Bypassing ethical and legal barriers to game the system should not be condoned. A business does not have a right to have employees work for significantly less than the going rate.