I Just Came To the Conclusion That Socialism is the Most Efficient

>>128770382
This is tasty pasta

>>128770526
It's not pasta, i just wrote it.

Can you send me some money since your rich? If this is what your worry about in sorry to shatter your dreams (((((they))))) Will never allow the goy to prosper

>>128770382
Only good socialism is national socialism.

>>128770692
I'm not Jewish and my family is rich im not rich. And any money i get i pay this guy to invite me over.

>>128770382
The entirety of human history says you are wrong.

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>>128770382
But these resource allocation models that you're talking about require an altruistic government at the help to ensure efficient and "fair" distribution. The inherent problem being that humanity as a whole is far from altruistic. If anything, one of our core traits is greed. Greed breeds corruption, and then you start landing up with the Soviet Union.

Socialism is the biggest scam there ever was. It causes individuals like me who are college educated. To evaluate how much profit I could theoretically make by not working, and pursuing other recreational interests. When individuals collectively do this (and they will), this causes overall output to suffer. Requiring everyone else to amp up the effort to meet output quotas.

The final flaw in socialism is that nobody really knows how much of what people want. Capitalism reigns supreme in this matter, since supply and demand are very clear.

But since you're 18 years old. You're probably not going to listen to any of this, and talk about how great Trudeau and Sanders are as people.

>>128770972
History proves im right actually

>>128771093
Except that makes no sense since under socialism you have to work to get resources, under capitalism if you work you get nothing, only the bourgaise get anything. In that sense capitalism encourages laziness.

The reason you love Trudeau and Sanders is because they tell you that you can have capitalism and not work, since you know that under regular capitalism you'd be a bottom feeder.

>>128770382
Can you show me a *full* socialist system that worked?

>>128770382
>>socialism allocates resources exactly as needed
you cant define how much is needed. people always want more and more.

>>efficient
socialism transfers ressources from industrious, intelligent and successful people to lazy, dumb and unsuccessful people. Socialism encourages untermenschen-behavior. Socialism makes people more lazy. Its making economy unefficient.

>>128770382
>9gag
Only good form on socialism is national socialism.

>>128770382
>Before you ask
Nobody was gonna ask
We don't care
Fuck off commie

>>128771441
>Except that makes no sense since under socialism you have to work to get resources
>under capitalism if you work you get nothing,

Strange, I thought I was working for money. The medium of exchange. You work for both in capitalism and socialism. The only difference being the government taxes your wages more to provide for idiots who can't. I'd rather throw my money into the fire at that point. I don't want to provide for people I don't know, because I don't care about them one bit.

>The reason you love Trudeau and Sanders

If you read the entire sentence. That's not what I said at all. But nice assumption. Keep moving around like that in life, and people are going to treat you like a twat, that just needs to be fucked.

>>128771872
Remember when i talk about socialism I mean the ECONOMIC system. I do am not talking about cultural or legal aspects. So yes Saudi Arabia is a full socialist system that worked economically.

>>128771958
>you cant define how much is needed. people always want more and more.
Yeah you can, how much people are willing to buy

>socialism transfers ressources from industrious, intelligent and successful people to lazy, dumb and unsuccessful people. Socialism encourages untermenschen-behavior. Socialism makes people more lazy. Its making economy unefficient.
Capitalism transfers resources from smart, productive, unsucessful people to dumb lazy sucessful people. If you try to work in capitalism you get made fun of, have your wealth and rights stolen, and are forced into debt slavery. In socialism you get to keep what you earn. That is why socialism is more efficient.

>>128772304
>we don't care
You don't matter

>>128772310
>Strange, I thought I was working for money. The medium of exchange. You work for both in capitalism and socialism. The only difference being the government taxes your wages more to provide for idiots who can't. I'd rather throw my money into the fire at that point. I don't want to provide for people I don't know, because I don't care about them one bit.
Your working to get money, yeah a little bit. The GDP per capita is 55 thousand dollars a year. If you make under that you are losing your resources to someone else

>If you read the entire sentence. That's not what I said at all. But nice assumption. Keep moving around like that in life, and people are going to treat you like a twat, that just needs to be fucked.
You made the assumption that i like trudeau and sanders twat

>>128772370
Neither do you, it's always these rich faggot kids that think socialism is a great idea not realizing how much their standard of living would go down, and then it's crying to daddy because I can't afford an iPhone anymore

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>I Just Came To the Conclusion That Socialism is the Most Efficient Ideology
You forgot the word "National" somewhere OP.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DB9oUqIcX-c

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>>128770382

>>128772532
>Your working to get money, yeah a little bit. The GDP per capita is 55 thousand dollars a year.

I don't see what that has to do with anything. Because you're telling me I don't get anything with Capitalism. But you just told me the GDP is 55k. So what is it. Nothing or something?

>You made the assumption that i like trudeau and sanders twat

Because you're talking about socialism and they're the chief preachers of socialism in this age besides Europeans like Solberg and Rasmussen.

>>128770778
aka Not Socialism

>>128772573
I do matter actually I know a lot of important people, well my dad does but i have dinner with them, and your the cryone one

>>128772583
Ok what they said was true but the holocaust was really bad and is why national socialism sucks

>>128772936
>I don't see what that has to do with anything. Because you're telling me I don't get anything with Capitalism. But you just told me the GDP is 55k. So what is it. Nothing or something?
That means that if you are not making 55K a year the government is ripping you off since thats how much each person produces in labour

>Because you're talking about socialism and they're the chief preachers of socialism in this age besides Europeans like Solberg and Rasmussen.
Trudeau and Sanders are both ultra-capitalists. Try again

>>128773167
Too bad those important people see right through your shit and will never respect you

>>128773294
What do you see yourself doing after your socialist revolution

>>128773503
Well they obviously do respect my dad since they have dinners with him where they discuss business shit. I'm not allowed to talk about socialism with clients so i guess the scum think im one of them

>>128773167
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFrJF-noN7A
Time for a history lesson then.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bx7X8_qcP4U

>>128773687
I don't believe in revolution, im talking about socialization through legislative means. But I see myself as a lawyer like always since my dad is sending me to law school. The thing is in socialism even if I don't get into law school which I have a good chance of not getting into I could be a worker and will get just as much status and respect.

>>128770382
>All that is WASTED resources and labour, socialism does not put up with that.

Why are you so stupid? Learn some fucking history.

>>128773294
>That means that if you are not making 55K a year the government is ripping you off

No. That means the bourgeoisie you're bitching about, are ripping you off. How can you not tell the difference between the upper class and the government?

>Trudeau and Sanders are both ultra-capitalists. Try again

Yeah, universal healthcare, and preaching of universal income is totally ultra capitalist. I also listed two other proponents of socialism that you didn't read about.

After this little chat. I've determined that you have no clue what socialism really is, except the "socialism" that you want to try in your misplaced mind. Individuals like you want to assert your self-righteousness over your fellow man like the word of God. People like you are tyrants and are better off placed on the noose. It's good idiots like you don't have real power.

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>>128770382
>implying the true faith of the Lord Jesus Christ is false
burn in hell

>>128773704
That's holocaust denial stuff. I can't watch it since in Canada it's illegal to even believe in your mind that the holocaust is fake.

>>128773843
I don't like Tito, he was a genocidal evil man. My best friend is Italian and Tito had Italians executed.

>>128773969
What is a "worker" in your mind.

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It totally works guys

>>128773989
You're very stupid, learn history

>>128774001
>
No. That means the bourgeoisie you're bitching about, are ripping you off. How can you not tell the difference between the upper class and the government?
The U.S is fake as fuck bro. The government is the bourgeoisie at this point

>Yeah, universal healthcare, and preaching of universal income is totally ultra capitalist. I also listed two other proponents of socialism that you didn't read about.
Suuuuuure even though they preach "free markets, reduction on redtape, global free trade, and economic unity".

>After this little chat. I've determined that you have no clue what socialism really is, except the "socialism" that you want to try in your misplaced mind. Individuals like you want to assert your self-righteousness over your fellow man like the word of God. People like you are tyrants and are better off placed on the noose. It's good idiots like you don't have real power.
Oh oh so you believe in thoughtcrime now?

>>128774151
>believing in religion
Sorry im too educated and rational for that crap

>>128770382
in actuality:
>we sit back and watch your sweaty hands clamor for a shitty handshake and then deny your resume for bringing up anime as a strength and weakness

>>128770382
Once you move out of your parents house boy and become fully independent, you'll realize how shitty it is (((providing))) to (((people))) you'll never see and never hear from. If you're so keen to help people out, do so with your own money and means toward a dedicated institution instead of a federal body with more corruption and self interests than we can imagine

Fucking leaf

>>128774305
Honestly I'm really screwing up my terms here. A worker/proletariat in my mind is anyone who's not in the bourgeois. I consider myself a proletariat and even tried to get my dad to let me join the 99% protest of occupy wallstreet. By worker I meant physical factory worker or builder. Technically anyone who works for the bourgeois is a prole.

>>128774355
Sure, Venezuelans ultra capitalism is a TOTAL sucess

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_Q4019fEjo&t=87s

>>128770382
>This is why socialism is more efficient, it allocates resources exactly as needed while capitalism fucks around with mal-investment, unemployment, foreclosure, and bourgeoisie capitalists. All that is WASTED resources and labour, socialism does not put up with that.

No it doesn't and if you look at the history of the world where socialism has been implemented, it's been done so badly through central planning that basically millions of people starved to death during a time where capitalistic countries had an abundance of food and goods.

That is to say look up the USSR in the 1900's and how that turned out vs capitalistic america, and the 5 years of starvation, etc.

Capitalistic markets are themselves systems of measuring what is in demand and supplying it, it's a system of measuring inefficiency in businesses and making them fail while at the same time promoting more efficient businesses. Capitalism has mechanisms for deciding value through group bargaining with private ownership, socialism has no such equivelents and so fails quickly.

And yes capitalism isn't necessarily the most efficient because quite often you have multiple businesses doing the same thing and some go under. But that's a temporary fleeting cost which is traded for learning which way is the better way to do something.

>>128770382
Socialism only works if you do it like Hitler did.
Massive nationalist movement meaning people will be working to better there family and friends.
Kill those who are severly disabled as they are a major drain on healthcare.
Only allow a certain amount of resources to the elderly as they are the most likely to need healthcare.
encourage women to have many children so there are more people paying taxes and creating wealth each generation.

>>128770382
Both systems are flawed and they call each other evil. Simply because of a very basic formula: both rely heavily on the ones in power for the ones below them to be happy (either the Goverment or the Market). Socialism and communism work wonders on small communities but obviously most of the development they get is from bigger cities that work on capitalism.

But the truth is that smarter people hate dumber people and since smarter people tend to reach higher status quos they will always fuck the people below them regardless the system they're in.

>>128774768
>it's socialism until it fails
Yes, one of you drifts in here every few days.

>>128774426
Not an argument

>>128774525
Im not spending my money helping anyone out, fuck that. Providing for others is awful, that's why capitalism is a failure

>>128770640
It is now

>>128774184

Wow. The author, David Cole, even stated in the beginning that he is not a Holocaust denier, just a revisionist.
Well then, here is a Voltaire quote.
"To learn who rules over you, you must discover who it is illegal to criticize."

>>128770382
Venezuela citizens say otherwise

>>128774993
back to the gulag fool

>>128774773
>No it doesn't and if you look at the history of the world where socialism has been implemented, it's been done so badly through central planning that basically millions of people starved to death during a time where capitalistic countries had an abundance of food and goods.
Other way around actually

>That is to say look up the USSR in the 1900's and how that turned out vs capitalistic america, and the 5 years of starvation
Americas golden age was 1950. Dwight Eisenhower was in power who was a democratic socialist. Also look at Ireland in the 1860s, Potato famine since it was capitalist

>Capitalistic markets are themselves systems of measuring what is in demand and supplying it, it's a system of measuring inefficiency in businesses and making them fail while at the same time promoting more efficient businesses. Capitalism has mechanisms for deciding value through group bargaining with private ownership, socialism has no such equivelents and so fails quickly.
Wrong. In capitalism demand is determined by how much people are willing to spend money on something. Problem is if there is no money there is no demand.

>And yes capitalism isn't necessarily the most efficient because quite often you have multiple businesses doing the same thing and some go under. But that's a temporary fleeting cost which is traded for learning which way is the better way to do something.
It's not temporary. There's businesses failing all the time.

>>128770382
that looks like communism

>>128770382
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAH

jk, don't be afraid, you'll grow out of it

>>128774797
My grandfather was severely disabled and was never a drain on healthcare, that's a stereotype for the most part. Everything else you said was unbelievably fucked

>>128774980
Yeah sure though it was socialist until it turned capitalist and then failed.

but the little problem here is that that's communism/monarchy, not capitalism, cus with capitalism, we have the freedom of equal opportunity (for the most part) and some things can fuck people over, and it sucks, but that's life

>>128775083
First odd David Cole is on the SPLC Hate list for holocaust denial and second of all that is a fake Voltaire quote

>>128775111
Why would they? Most of them live poor hungry starving lives thanks to capitalism keeping them down

>>128775241
Grow up please

>>128774993
Your money and property will be forcebly distributed under socialism which means that you will be supporting others with your money. You are a member of the bourgeoisie if your father is any good at his job and you're the textbook definition of a champagne socialist

>>128770640
If true, you were also just born if you put faith in government to do what is best with your money.

Remember, Crony Capitalism and Socialism = The same thing.

Pure Utopian Socialism can never be had, just as pure Capitalism can never be had because of Government. Somewhere in the chain, there will always be corruption and people lining their own pockets while the plebs work. This is the way it has always been and always will be.

The reason why Capitalism/consumer culture wins is because at least as consumers have a voice with their wallet over who rapes them in the ass.

Either way, it ends in ass rape if you are not part of the elite.

>>128770382
>allocates resources exactly as needed

>implying the Government in it's all mightiness can't be corrupted and is always 100% efficient

wtf. I honestly also support socialism for a nation but your argument is just retarded.

>>128775768
I'm not bourgeois. My dad is and he's a douchbag and im becoming a lawyer to WORK for him. He's basically cucking me to being a proletariet.

I lean more to the right, but even I don't think large profits and money goes to the most deserving.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not a Communist and I agree there has to be incentive for people to try their hardest, but that's only up to a reasonable point.

These days, becoming rich and wealthy has more to do with being born lucky or being at the right place at the right time. It hardly has anything to do with work ethic and intelligence.

Work ethic and intellect will help you go from $20k/year to $80k/year, but getting to the point where you're making $500k/year is all luck.

My neighbor used to run a convenience store back in the 80s and 90s and used to make a lot. Back then, immigration was more restrictive and there weren't like 50 competitors in your neighborhood.

He closed his store recently because it wasn't turning a profit due to the likes of Amazon and every immigrant doing the same exact thing. This guy is so delusional and thinks he made his $5 million due to hard work and intelligence and not because he was lucky the environment was in his favor.

In fact, his recent store closure should be proof that it was primarilu luck that allowed him to make so much money at the start, since if it were due to hard work and intelligence, his store would still be open. And yet, this guy's giant ego won't let him see that.

>>128775797
That's fucked up

>>128776036
Well the government is a democracy.

>>128770382
what you did not get is INCENTIVE. People are looking for themselves when they do work.
If they feel like they are working for nothing or they work for leeches, they will be frustrated and stop to work.

This is why socialism fails very hard. If being "needy" gets you stuff, you want to be needy. If working doesn't mean you get to keep stuff, you wont want to work.

>>128776057
So are you not living the life of a member of the bourgeois? Does your father not provide for you?

>still replying to autistic Canadians that don't know anything
why waste your time

>>128775344
What in your mind is severly disabled? In mine its my step brother who had to have a electric wheelchair, hoists, a revamped bathroom, a special disabled car, spinal surgeries. This costed the tax payer at least £200,000 without counting the £20,000 a year needed for his carer.
Now add that with the thousands of people that suffer with his condition. And this is for his disease alone.
Now add in the costs for the 60,000 people in the UK alone with down syndrome. This is special teachers, extra medicine extra hospital vists due to heart issues and the costs quickly add up.
You can moral fag all you want but disabilities cost a lot of money to the tax payer.
And to old people, yes they do cost a fucking bomb. In the times i've visited my GP its always been full to the brim of old people no matter what time of day.

>>128776103
Holy fuck this post was based. This is why i had socialism. Assholes born to rich parents think their the shit. I mean i was born rich but im not like the other shits who think they are better. It's all luck it's a caste system

>>128774001
>That means the bourgeoisie you're bitching about, are ripping you off.
Um... no. Imagine that the whole of the society is just 10 people. Each of you produces and sells 55 000 worth of goods in a year. That's total GDP 550 000. But at a certain point one person invents a technology that increases his yield and profit twice.Total GDP rises to 605 000 and GDP per capita to 60 500. So now according to that logic, you should start claiming that the person who improved the technology is ripping you off by 5500 despite the fact that you have exactly as much as you had before.

>>128776249
You just explained why capitalism failed. In socialism you work for yourself and keep 100% of what you earn. In capitalism your money is stolen and given to the boss so you just work for others

>>128776380
He gives me food, a phone, a computer, a bedroom, internet, and a bunch of other basic stuff that everyone has. There's no advantages at all. I still wake up everyday tired, go to school, get beat up and made fun of, go home and browse 4chan until i fall asleep. It's not a good life.

>>128770382
Go to Venezuela. Ask them how socialism worked out for them.
Every socialist is either retarded or on the way to become a retard.
And we should be allowed to throw you out of helicopters.

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>>128770382
What happens when people stop spending their money like idiots?
>stop spending money on junk food as much as possible
>stop spending money on excessive alcohol consumption
>stop spending money clothes and products that are cheaply built and are made to break so you keep on buying
>stop falling for Jewish tricks that are meant to keep you spending your hard earned on things that don't make you happy
Why would we give our right to vote away just because the majority of consumers don't know how to treat their money? Wouldn't the most efficient and safest ideology be of that which teaches us how to not fund psychologically manipulative corporations?

>>128776403
My grandfather had flat feet and the government gave him free money for it and he didn't have to serve in the war. However the University kicked him off the track and field team since they said if he wasn't fit enough for the army he couldn't run. I consider my grandfather a complete and utter parasite since he ran a law firm and i hate corporations but from your capitalistic perspective he paid more in taxes than he took out.

>>128776714
>You just explained why capitalism failed.
capitalism failed huh?

> In socialism you work for yourself and keep 100% of what you earn.
that is not socialism. what's socialists about this?

>>128776705
Except yeah because that person who invented that technology will lower the price of apples and drive you out of business. PLUS most people get rich hiring others.

>>128770382
Take this food for thought from a former social country:

Living in a social country is all well and good IF you have lots of FREE MONEY, except when it runs out.

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>>128776103
sigh

This is not the fault of capitalism. You ever wonder why capitalism worked so great back before... some things happened?

>>128776714
Have you worked for anything in your life at all?

>>128776877
Capitalists are retarded. Go to Venezuela and ask them how ultra-capitalism has been going for them. I think if you promote capitalism you should go to jail.

>>128776887
So better education? That would never work since they tell people in school not to drink or smoke yet they do anyway

>>128776963
The whole point of socialism is you get to keep what you earn instead of your boss taking it.

>>128776887
the most important say of my life thua far is once i figured out these simple rules of spending. it made everything else just kind of fall into place

>>128777129
Wew lad that cognitive dissonance.

>>128777116
My dad made me become a lifeguard and he's making me work at his law firm i have to hold the door open and dress up like a preppy idiot so yes.

>>128776182

no it's not. If you think the Government is elected democratically then you're underage and need to lurk more.

>>128775637
A fucking frog is on the SPLC Hate list.

>>128777033
So basically socialism is a system that stifles growth and creativity and you consider it a good thing. Am I understanding you right?

>PLUS most people get rich hiring others.
Strange. Where I live, hiring others is considered a good thing.

>>128777129
>hur dur not socialism but capitalism caused it
Please don't reproduce, although with how autistic you are I can't see that happening anyways

>>128777267
>The whole point of socialism is you get to keep what you earn instead of your boss taking it.
No. The point of socialism is that the social needs of the people are met and the economy is based around that. You could be self-employed and it would not be socialist in any way. To be socialist you have to take care of poor people even if they cannot fend for themselves, as long as they "are willing to work".

>>128776889
Okay you've just proved your a retard or troll
>father only provides basics such as phone,internet,computer
>Fucking flat feet a sever disability

The only reason you like the idea of socialism is because your as useful as a paper clip. You probably come home after each day of being mocked for being autistic and play overwatch, then fap to tracer porn and come on 4chan to demand why we should have to pay for your laziness.

>>128776182
>Well the government is a democracy.

so inefficient as fuck, can maybe choose between 2 - 7 choices and even suck at that

>>128770382
>Socialism
>Efficient
>As needed
You're imagining a system without a human factor.
That doesn't, at least currently, exist.

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>>128776887
Aha, but here's the deal, why should we rely on the government to do our jobs? Is it because citizens shouldn't be responsible for such important things? This whole system basically allows people to become useless and empty husks who waste their money and their lives.

Parents should raise their children, not the government.

>>128777364
Have you ever thought that maybe your father is forcing you to do these things to instill you with a sense of responsibility so when you go out into the real world you'll be about to have value in the free market? To me it seems like you're an extremely entitled boy who has no idea what it's like to work a day in his life and wants to continue life being supported by other people.

>>128770382
> capitalism fucks around with mal-investment, unemployment, foreclosure, and bourgeoisie capitalists.
In a Socialist society you'll still want to take risks to move forward

Also: information problem and personal responsibility

ohgoditsretarded.jpeg

>>128770382
Produce results then

Show us a centrally planned economy that's more efficient than mixed/free market economies.

>>128777267
meant to address this to you
>>128777909

>>128777457
Please don't reproduce you are mentally ill

>>128777417
>So basically socialism is a system that stifles growth and creativity and you consider it a good thing. Am I understanding you right?
No. Under socialism that piece of technology that can double the production of apples would simple be owned by everyone, not the one who invented it so everyones wealth would rise with the GDP

>Strange. Where I live, hiring others is considered a good thing.
Well in Canada slavery is considered disgusting. Only the government hiring someone is ok since the money the government earns from it goes into the treasury

>>128777399
You're underage if you think we don't live in a democracy

>>128777551
Under capitalism you work and they take your money and rights

>centralized control works in theory trust me guys
Little edgy petite bourgeoise tries rebelling against his fathers expectation to become a lawyer?

One of the best arguments for capitalism online.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahMGoB01qiA

>>128777303
Care to share these simple rules? I'm working them out myself but a list could be handy.

>>128777560
Yeah your trolling. Internet, phone computer is stuff everyone has

and the only reason you like capitalism is because your lazy and want others to pay for it

>>128777963
Mental illness

>>128777917
i already ruined my life. There is no reason to try to "prepare me for the real world now"

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>>128770382
>socialism does not put up with that.
The system is so efficient there are hardly any consumer products at all.

>>128778151
Saudi Arabia

>>128770382
>t feet and the government gave him free money for it and he didn't have to serve in the war. However the University kicked him off the track and field team since they said if he wasn't fit enough for the army

/yeah except the little radical cunts who espouse the communo-socialist crap neither work nor produce food … actually work and feed ppl for a while… and see if you still wanna give what youve earned away..

>>128778239
>Under capitalism you work and they take your money and rights
you don't really have rights in socialism either. And you work. And most of the time the products of your work are taken because they are needed somewhere else. Also in socialist countries most workers were not self employed they worked at a factory like in capitalist countries. So they put together cars but weren't able to drive a car.

>>128770382
the only way socialism would waste less than capitalism is by producing infinitely less.

>>128775209
>Other way around actually
Go read the Gulag archipelago which details basically the downfall of socialism in the USSR and the abject horror there. We're talking about systems that ran for decades and killed tens of millions of people. It couldn't have been more of a failure, the same happened in communist china.

America has basically been one long golden age since it first started after they declared independence, the worst time they've had progress wise is right now as it's become a welfare state.

Value is determined by letting people bargain between themselves for something of which there is a limited supply, you don't need money to bargain it's just a useful middle man that speeds up interactions in a specialized market system.

It's a temporary cost because what you get back is an increase in efficiency, businesses only go under if they're run badly vs another similar business, when that happens one that has demonstrably more success wins out, hence you gain efficiency. And that efficiency can be then forever more benefited from because we pass on that technology, idea or innovation through the rest of society.

Socialism has no model for measuring value, measuring relative need, knowing how to best distribute resources, no method of innovating, no incentive to innovate. Central planning has been tried many times and it always fails because it's too complex of a problem for 1 person in power to solve.

it's also profoundly immoral because it takes the work of one man and hands the benefits to another person through what is essentially the use of violence. Where as free market captialism there's a notion of private property and people trade only voluntarily with one another.

>>128777909
Because when citizens do work, they keep the reward. The more investment and work citizens do the more wealth they can accumlate. This will be in the forms of limited dollars which means less for everyone else.

>>128770382
>This is why socialism is more efficient, it allocates resources exactly as needed

Then explain Holodomor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

>>128778249
No I want to be a lawyer/judge, fuck being a bourgeois law firm owner scum.

>>128770382
Socialism doesn't allocate the resources efficiently because there is a significant time delay between demand and supply, lasting between 1-50 years as witnessed in the Soviet Union.
You havn't done your homework.

>>128778324
Shitty arguments

>if i created wealth it meant i had to create jobs to get that wealth
Literal retard logic

>>128778403
If your life is fucked up why would you advocate for a system that oppresses and fucks over millions of people who are actually apart of the proletariat unlike yourself.

>>128777116
No not some dictated chore, but worked. Like your grandfather who built a business.

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>>128774993
Its a commie leaf guys, a lost cause. They are imune to reason and logic.

>>128778427
Oh really. Look at Saudi Arabias new helicopter taxis

>>128778465
Do you want to give me your money? Since you love capitalism so much you must love giving what you work for away

>>128778748
for >>128777364

>>128770382

>Socialism is the most efficient ideology
>I'm 18

Yeah, no fucking shit. I did not see that coming.

>>128770382
The same pyramid exists in socialism
The difference being there is no social mobility

Why do people always fall for this crap?

>>128770382
a fucking LEAF

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>>128778825
You mean taxation? Hopefully Trump will get thise tax cuts through.

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>>128778556
Isn't the issue here then that the citizens in capitalism waste their money by spending it on Jewish tricks, like fast food, alcohol, entertainment, etc? Isn't this the issue?

also my initial post:
>>128776887

>>128770382
I actually had to laugh out loud reading this.

>>128778239
>Under socialism that piece of technology that can double the production of apples would simple be owned by everyone
Pfft... Yeah, we had that in Poland, but as it turns out, if it belongs to everyone, it belongs to no one. Government-controlled farms and factories were plagued by inefficiency, because no one had anything to gain by increasing productivity.

>Well in Canada slavery is considered disgusting. Only the government hiring someone is ok since the money the government earns from it goes into the treasury
Well, according to tradingeconomics.com, current GDP growth rate in Canada is 0.9% per quarter. In Poland it's 4%.

>>128778502
You do have rights in socialism, look at Libya under Gaddafi, look at America in the 1950s

>>128778545
Funny since Ameirca was in its golden age in the 1950s, when they elected Dwight Eisenhower a self explamed socialist. He supported many socialist policies such as NASA, the military, farm subsidies, unions, medicaid, social security.

>>128778545
Also capitalism is by definition theft which means it's amoral. Since in socialism a man keeps what he earns while in capitalism you are forced to work and what you earn goes to others.

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>>128770382
>Yes I'm 18 years old, im in highschool and my dad is the guy with the law firm.
>socialist

Oh, wow, will the shocking, unprecedented revelation never end, I don't think I can take any more surprises from the socialists.

>you want others to pay for it that's why you like capitalism
autism speaks everyone
I enjoy putting sage on my dishes, OP is either a dedicated troll or fucking retard. Friendly reminder this idiot has made multiple threads like this where he rants like a schizo for 40+ posts.

S a g e

>>128776103
This is what I dislike about essentially what most socialistic systems turn into. Which is more about dragging down the successful than trying to help the poor, it's a race to the bottom driven out of spite for people that have something.

Captialism was the single best thing to happen to poor people, look at early North America, people flocked there in the millions to basically start their own businesses, get a job and enjoy the extreme wealth the country generated, it was one of the most prosperous times in the history of the entire world. People could move there, start a business, compete and offer their services, there was little tax and red tape, and everyones boats floated higher.

It's also worth noting that family money is 90% gone in 3 generations, that the lucky people who are born into wealth tend to lose it. That selling your house if you live in a big city will put you into the 1% that year. And that the 1% band and poor band are not static bands of the same people, that they're extremely mobile, people move in and out of them rapidly, normally out of the poor band in 1 year if you can hold a job down for that year.

But it is exactly the opposite. You cannot determine where resources need to be allocated without a market economy and information contained in pricing. There is far more misallocation in planned economies. The economy is too large to be planned.

>>128771441
>History proves im right actually
Really? What historical examples do you have of socialist societies that work more efficiently than capitalist ones?

>>128770382
In capitalism you can move up and down the pyramid, in socialism you cannot

>>128778586
Stalin wanted to take more food than he said he would so he could build up the USSRs military. Btw if capitalism is good explain irish potato famine

>>128778658
Read a book, in the 1950s America had the fastest growing economy

>>128778730
I am part of the proletariet i am doing this for them. IF THERE IS HOPE IT LIES IN THE PROLES

>>128778798
You are immune to logic because you are dumb

>>128778748
Yes, lifeguarding. How is that not work?

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>>128770382

>>128770382
When in the history of society has socialism worked for longer than the time it took to militarily overthrow such a fucked up system of funneling wealth to the top and forcing citizens to work for free

>This is why socialism is more efficient, it allocates resources exactly as needed

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
fucking sage

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>>128770382
> it allocates resources exactly as needed
When has this ever been the case?

>>128778897
The thing is although in socialism there are rich people (bureaucrats, judges, officals, military officers) in socialism you have wealth mobility. Basically a poor person can become rich and a rich person can become poor. In capitalism you are born to a certain caste and must remain their your whole life.

>>128779073
>self explamed socialist.
If Eisenhower had dared to insinuate he was sympathetic to socialism The House UnAmerican Activities Committee would have articles of impeachment drawn up so fast...

>>128778976
No, I mean like wage cuts, and Trump supports lowering the minimum wage. In fact all form of wages are slavery. The thing about socialism is you keep what you earn. In capitalism the more you work the more they take.

>>128779656
And what evidence of this claim do you have?

>>128779522
You are not apart of the proletariat. You are provided a bourgeoisie life through your father who took advantage of the free market and capitalism to get that life for you.

>>128779522
>. Btw if capitalism is good explain irish potato famine

Natural disaster, bad crops.

>>128778999
No, since the very nature of capitalism forces the rich to get richer. If the proles only spent their money on important food, clothing, and housing the rich would still get richer since they can keep investing in new efficient farm products and stuff

>>128779056
>Pfft... Yeah, we had that in Poland, but as it turns out, if it belongs to everyone, it belongs to no one. Government-controlled farms and factories were plagued by inefficiency, because no one had anything to gain by increasing productivity.
Sure, sounds a lot like capitalism. Where the more you work the more jealous your boss gets and screws you over

>Well, according to tradingeconomics.com, current GDP growth rate in Canada is 0.9% per quarter. In Poland it's 4%.
Yeah since we are run by an ultra-conservative ultra-capitalist neoliberal

Why is it always from the middle class?

>>128779324
You're a really really bad troll. I'm having you banned

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National Socialism is the only answer and the only way to keep our people from being exploited by the Jew.

>>128779470
1950s America, Saudi Arabia, Libya, Nazi Germany's economic system, Canada.

>>128779449
Problem is with supply and demand. Demand does not mean what the """people"""" demand it means who with money demands something.

>>128779477
In socialism you have social mobility. In capitalism, well, you are born into a caste

>>128779522
>Yes, lifeguarding. How is that not work?
My grandfather got me a job at a beach, a guy who he did business with half the time I was helping them put in an area for camping/picnicking (digging ditches) and the other half watching the beach, lol. There is huge difference.

>>128780090
Good luck faggot, whatever soothes your autism.
For anyone else know that you will see a similar thread posted in the next few days by the same autistic OP

>>128773969
>myself as a lawyer like always since my dad is sending me to law school.

>>128774768
>I consider myself a proletariat and even tried to get my dad to let me join the 99% protest of occupy wallstreet. By worker I meant physical factory worker or builder. Technically anyone who works for the bourgeois is a prole.

>>128778634
>No I want to be a lawyer/judge, fuck being a bourgeois law firm owner scum.

Hahaha damn, so essentially you'r a prissy wealthy faggot who wants to be an apparatchik? You can't "identify" as a proletariat. The very fact that you will inherit your fathers money means you cannot be part of the proletariat. Come back here after you've disowned him.

>>128779163
No you're not forced to work, you voluntarily negotiate the deal that you have with other people, there's literally no force involved.

You can either work for yourself or chose to work for other people who have saved up the assets they need to buy equipment or services they need in order to make a business more efficient or build more complex thing than any one person could do alone. And the reason that people voluntarily work for these businesses rather than say for themselves, is because it's a better deal for them, being 1 cog in a larger machine typically pays better than being a single cog on your own.

Why socialists think that capitalism involves "theft" or any kind of force is beyond me. It's such silly notion that you sign a contract voluntarily to do something like agree to produce X for Y pay, and then say something was taken from you.

If you're not happy with the agreement, don't take it, go work for yourself, there's literally nothing stopping you from starting a business, being the sole employee (self employed) and then you keep everything you make. The reason most people don't do this is simply that it represents a worse deal for them. And somehow that's "theft", it's so braindead.

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>>128779972
But again, what happens if people stop spending their money on things they don't need, like fast food, cheap clothing and products, and other Jewish tricks? What would happen?

>>128780243
>1950s America, Saudi Arabia, Libya, Nazi Germany's economic system, Canada.
>socialism
Is this a joke? What do you even think socialism is?

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>>128779073
>a fucking leaf

One day, you'll look back on this stage in your life and you will realize just how terribly wrong you were.

>when will leafs get rangebanned?

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>>128770382
The difference between national socialism and the half assed European socialism we see today is that national socialism puts ones own nation first. Otherwise, why have a government at all? National socialism puts emphasis on a strong military, and getting everyone a job. It's about putting average citizens into positions of power as long as they're qualified instead of giving those jobs to the extremely rich or corrupt people who will serve the interests of the extremely rich.

>>128771093
You're wrong, actually. All you need to do is kick out the silver spooned cucks that don't care about the nation.

>>128771441
Another thing that's wrong with capitalism is that you serve only the interests of the rich. Under national socialism you serve yourself. Every job that you'd be doing would be for the betterment of your country and therefore yourself. Under capitalism, you work 8-12 hours every day to fill someone else's pockets. I know that the US needs an infrastructure overhaul, not more iToys and coffee shops. I'd rather rebuild the electrical grid for minimum wage under a national socialist government than work my current job with Ford, a company run by kikes. The job I do now is fulfilling because it doesn't help my people in any way.

>>128779522
>IF THERE IS HOPE IT LIES IN THE PROLES

Ah the inevitable 1984 reference.
If you read it more carefully you'll realize Winston was an idiot by the way. His instincts worked against him all the time, his insight was always proven wrong.
There never was hope in the proles. Any successful revolution would have to be started by a member of the High Party, purely out of greed. Proles are just pawns.

You think Stalin, Pol Pot or their ilk ever gave half a fuck about the working class?
You gotta grow up quicker kid

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>>128779764
>The thing about socialism is you keep what you earn.
from each according to ability, to each according to need.
That^doesn't sound like you get to keep anymore than the local commissariat will allow.

>>128779593
And during those times the economy grew and the people were richer than any time in history

>>128779641
Look up Noam Chomsky

>>128779605
Enjoy your ban

>>128779824
The fact that every high-level person in the USSR "grew up in a low income household" as wiki calls it

>>128779860
My dad is an asshole and isn't giving me shit unless i manage to prove i can run the law firm. I will most likley be forced to become a regular lawyer so yeah for now i am a proletariet

>>128779976
Because the oppressed are tired of capitalism

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>>128779522
>I am part of the proletariet

No you are not. You are upper class, spoiled piece of shit backed by daddy's money, completely oblivious about struggles of proletariat aka standard, run off the mill socialist.
Stop fucking insulting the working class you ignorant, immoral vermin.

>>128770382
Listen here asshole, you might think you're hot shit, hell you might even BE hot shit, but you're shit nonetheless. You have contributed NOTHING to society, unlike me. I have done so much you can't even begin to imagine how much this world owes me. I have taken my dick out for Harambe, I have participated in every Facebook challenge you could imagine. You are a pathetic piece of disapointment that spends all day jacking off to japanese cartoons. Your futile attempts at becoming a better person is the reason you have no friends. You probably don't even know what personal hygiene is. Face it, you are the result of billions of years of evolution, so maybe you should start fucking ACTING like it. You might think that having so many friends of the internet makes you cool, but it doesn't. While you were busy playing dumb ass computer games, I was actually studying and preparing for my future. I'm could have a PhD in quantum physics if I felt like it, you are probably gonna end up in some run-down, decrepit apartment eating canned food, because your retail job can't provide you with your actual needs. Honestly, you're not even worth my time, you fucking degenerate scum.

god this fucking leaf is so pretentious fucking faggot

day of the rake when

>>128780342
Yeah it's still work and i get paid like $16 an hour barley enough for car insurance it's a fucking joke job

>>128780466
Me and my dad are both working class beause we don't OWN the law firm, we work for it its my grandfather who owns it. We are working class since we are not like Bush/Rockefeller/Clinton/Rothschild

>>128779522
>Btw if capitalism is good explain irish potato famine
I don't know, Ireland is a fucking island, it's inexplicable, just go fishing.

>>128780582
>unfulfilling

>>128781010
>Yeah it's still work
You actually have to attend, yes, you can't phone it in.

>>128770382

In high school, thinks socialism can work. Start your own business and you will change your mind.

>>128780502
Because you have to work since you need a job. And the REASON you work for capitalists is they are the property owners, they own the means of production. How did they get the means of production, they stole it, want to know how?

The government claimed all the land in CAnada when Canada was formed and sold the land for cheap to scummy aristocrats. The people of Canada never agreed to give them the land, they bought it from the scummy government. So yes it was stolen since the government just claimed the land because they're assholes and gave it to these rich scum.

Part of the reason when i marry im taking my wifes last name is because my last name is based off one of these settler scums.

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>>128770382

>>128780559
Government owns means of production. Which was the case

>America
Government controlled the farms and chose how the wealth was distributed with farm taxes/subsidies and regulations

>Saudi Arabia
Government owns the oil

>Libya
Gaddafis government owned the oil

>Nazi Germany
Government controlled manufacture production

>Canada
Canada used to own it's oil rigs

>>128772315
>I do am not talking

You should stop shitposting and take a remedial summer school English course. You can pay for that service with money, because it's something you desperately need.

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itt: anglojews who still dont know what socialism is

>>128770382
Oh look a teenage bleeding heart faggot who doesn't know anything about life and thinks socialism is hot shit

>>128780660
Grow up. Winston was a hero and his insight was proven wrong since he's not a fortune tellers. He wasted MILLIONS of credits of big brother by wasting their time spying on an old drunk and wasted an inner parties members time torturing him.

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>>128780718
>Look up Noam Chomsky

Ah, it is the cocksucker who now pretends that Venezuela is some sort of exotic drink.

>>128780687
Even if that was the case, at least socialists would still be richer since we wouldn't be morally bankrupt

>>128780719
The upper class is still the working class. I ain't a bourgaise and i am one of you because I have to work or my dad gets mad as hell.

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>>128781010
>Me and my dad are both working class
>We are working class since we are not like Bush/Rockefeller/Clinton/Rothschild

I feel sorry for your father being cursed to deal with your ass

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>>128781262
>Part of the reason when I marry Im taking my wifes last name is because my last name is based off one of these settler scums

>leaf
>a literal cuck

How suprising.

>i really hope this is just one big bait thread

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>>128771441
>under capitalism if you work you get nothing, only the bourgaise get anything
Wait, what the fuck am I reading

>>128781412
>Government owns means of production. Which was the case

You should head to /leftypol/ and confirm this

>>128780502
capitalism involved force because force is how all property rights are enforced. There will never be a social order without implicit coercion.

OP needs to abandon this utopian thought. The desire for equality, the desire to extend liberty beyond those families who have earned it with their own blood and sweat is foolish. Liberty is and will always be the privilege of the few. That's what sovereignty is. The proles are the men those sovereigns have domesticated for profit. We're far removed from those days though, everyone has forgotten the origins of our social system.

>>128780718
So it's obvious that you're incompetent seeing that you can't hold a job, you get bullied in school and you abhor actually working to provide for yourself. You honestly are the socialist personified, you want to propagate your unsuccessful genes thorough taking the resources of others using the power of the state. Capitalism isn't a perfect system but either way you're getting kiked under both socialism and capitalism.

>>128781755
hes such a fucking faggot

>>128770382
Socialism relies on labour theory of value which means it's a shit inefficient ideology

>>128770382
>most efficient

At providing resources and the means to work to people who will never pay the system back, maybe.

Socialism is not necessarily a flawed system. It just places too much faith in human nature. Normal people spend their lives maintaining the machine, but it still requires management. Somebody has to be in charge, and the further you are up the food chain the greater the temptation to misuse your power. That's why socialist nations don't last very long; it takes very little time for the ruling class to be corrupted by their privileges.

Capitalism works on a foundation of achievement. Socialism eliminates class warfare by making it impossible to move up or down the ladder. Capitalism has classes, and therefore class warfare, but you can still make a better living for yourself, provided you possess the necessary qualities. You can see a similar dynamic in American schools. The underachievers or incapable are left behind, while the intelligent or charismatic make up the elite or "ruling class". The faulty or "government" are just there to make sure the everything runs smoothly and as it should.

I know this sounds a bit cold, but Capitalism is, essentially, a 'dog-eat-dog' setup designed to give everyone a chance. Some may start off with a better set of cards than others, but just as in a game, it doesn't matter if you don't play them right. And to be honest, there is nothing wrong with that. The poor like to demonize the wealthy by saying that they abused other people to get where they are, but there are plenty of good and bad individuals in both categories.

Socialism is a naive system designed by people who were jealous of everyone else. It serves only the people at the bottom of the food chain, and was designed with them in mind. It doesn't matter if you don't deserve it, didn't work for it, or are just a piece of shit, you still get a slice of the the pie because muh equality

Capitalism = logic
Socialism = emotion

>>128781155
Which is bullshit

>>128781029
That my friends is my case, capitalism is so bad people can't even fish since there isn't any demand for food (since the hungry people don't got dat bling bling)

>>128781157
Star a business in what? I don't have money for that, and even if i did i wouldn't since im not an amoral sack of shit

>>128781484
I'm getting a 90% in English at school. Law school application is like 87% in english IM GOOD

>>128781539
Shut up

>>128781681
No, it's an ultracapitalist hellhole

>>128770382
Pray tell, how does socialism allocate resources efficiently without market based prices? How do you know how much things are worth?

>>128782145
How many countries will naïve fools like you wreck in the pursuit of LE TRUE SOCIALISM?

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>>128778690
> Hurr durr shitty arguments

Peter Schiff didn't inherit anything though, he built it all from the ground up. Keep getting blown out the water here kid.

>>128770382
>Before you ask questions to make fun of me. >Yes I'm 18 years old, im in highschool

Bless your heart for being honest. You're young; it's not your fault. Congratulations for looking into alternate viewpoints

>>128780718
>i am a proletariet
Lol, it's hard to get more bourgeoisie than a lawyer. This is hilarious.
>>128781412
If the state doesn't actually distribute it to those who actually work it's not socialism. It's not like the worker isn't alienated from his products ig the king comes and takes all of it away from him. By your standard even feudal countries can count as socialist. Lol the pinnacle of socialism is apparently some dictator owning everything in the country.

>When the anarchist, as the mouthpiece of the declining strata of society, demands with a fine indignation what is "right," "justice," and "equal rights," he is merely under the pressure of his own uncultured state, which cannot comprehend the real reason for his suffering — what it is that he is poor in: life. A causal instinct asserts itself in him: it must be somebody's fault that he is in a bad way. Also, the "fine indignation" itself soothes him; it is a pleasure for all wretched devils to scold: it gives a slight but intoxicating sense of power. Even plaintiveness and complaining can give life a charm for the sake of which one endures it: there is a fine dose of revenge in every complaint; one charges one's own bad situation, and under certain circumstances even one's own badness, to those who are different, as if that were an injustice, a forbidden privilege. "If I am canaille, you ought to be too" — on such logic are revolutions made. Complaining is never any good: it stems from weakness. Whether one charges one's misfortune to others or to oneself — the socialist does the former; the Christian, for example, the latter — really makes no difference. The common and, let us add, the unworthy thing is that it is supposed to be somebody's fault that one is suffering; in short, that the sufferer prescribes the honey of revenge for himself against his suffering. The objects of this need for revenge, as a need for pleasure, are mere occasions: everywhere the sufferer finds occasions for satisfying his little revenge. If he is a Christian — to repeat it once more — he finds them in himself. The Christian and the anarchist are both decadents. When the Christian condemns, slanders, and besmirches "the world," his instinct is the same as that which prompts the socialist worker to condemn, slander, and besmirch society. the revolution, which the socialist worker awaits, but conceived as a little farther off.

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>>128782145
>Venezuala is an ultracapitalist hellhole
Holy fucking shit kid

Venezuala is literally ruled by "The United Socialist Party of Venezuela"

>>128781745
My dad always considered himself a working man. He's a conservative nut and a capitalist none the less but always said he was a "working man"

>>128781755
>cuck
Actually no. I am not a feminist or a "cuck" I actually believe in traditional families. I just don't want the name of a scummy landlord. Maybe i'll just change my last name but that takes a lot of work without simple taking your wifes name

>>128781837
The truth that will make you unhappy

>>128781896
I was banned by leftipol for critizing antifa

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>>128770382

>>128770886
LARPing faggot

>>128781573
Mmm, you have a bit too much free time
Well, see you

>>128770382
Stop watching videos. Read a book so you're not just regurgitating people's opinions.

Jokes on you its fucking June you know what that means?

Schools out, you should have graduated by now. Either that or you are underage.

This is bait.

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>leaf

>>128781965
CApitalists actually are the ones with poor genes. People who support capitalism support taking the resources of one person and giving it to another.

I have good genes. I can hold a job, and being bullied in school means jack shit dude, one thing that Trump won't admit but his teachers said it is he was called names by this group of guys. I'll link you the interview with his teacher in highschool but im busy responding to everyone.

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>>128770382
>18 year old with no real world experience thinks socialism works
>Literally comes from an upper middle class background

What's it like being a walking stereotype?

>>128770382
>>128782481
does consent, exist?

>>128770382
I'm raking you first, leaf

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It really makes you think

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>>128782729
Consent is a spook!

>>128782654
>taking the resources of one person and giving it to another.
source?

>>128771441
Oh to be 18 again... you'll grow up little goy

>>128782067
No it doesn't dingus

>>128782068
Capitalism is illogical and heres why. In capitalism you have no class mobility, you are born poor you stay poor you born rich you stay rich. In socialism a poor person can become rich with hard work

>You can see a similar dynamic in American schools. The underachievers or incapable are left behind, while the intelligent or charismatic make up the elite or "ruling class"
Except it's the nerds who get really good grades and make lots of money who are the underachievers while most of the top level kids are flunking their grades.

>>128777267
You need to leave pol, your pea-brained thoughts are worsening the already tarnished reputation of leafs on this board

>>128782466
Actualy it's controlled by the CIA which is a far-right organization

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9AcrvknLEU

>>128773969
>could be a worker

do you have any idea what that fucking means? do you know how far Marxists have gone to romanticize the abstract "worker?" you could do what; who would you sweat for? who would you bleed for?

>>128782979
those cia niggers glow in the dark

>>128770382
>implying we didn't all go through a phase between 16-24 believing socialism is morally righteous and effective
Yes I've been there, especially while I was in HS and college. "War is evil no matter the context! Doing anything for money over humanity is evil!'
I'm now 26 and trust me OP, it is indeed just a phase. I don't want to discourage you from learning, read all you can on the subject, learn socialism inside and out.

Just realize that there is an OBSCENE amount of information, history, data, events, and context that you have yet to experience. You are at the point in your life where learning and growth becomes exponential. 16-25 y.o. is your brain moving at light speed. Absorb all the info you can but more importantly TRAVEL, experience the world you inhabit and form your own opinions. Don't trust everything the adults in your life and the books on your shelf tell you.

Also socialism is for people who occupy sexual deviant fringes and poorfags. Start making your own way and learn for yourself.

>>128782721
I used to be the same leaf. Then I got a job. Guaranteed this kid hasn't worked a day in his life.

>>128782979
Just like how the CIA invented crack to keep da brothas down?

>>128782979
thats from 2 years ago and theres still no real leaks about it? fake news

>>128770382
I was 10 when I picked up Mein Kampf.
I was 12 when I hated people like you.
And even at the age of 21, I still do.

>>128782654
Except that if you are worthless in the free market and you have shitty genes you will fail to reproduce. You just said your job experience was a lifeguard and a "door opener". You have no life experience and you're advocating for a system that forcibly redistributes property to the undeserving.

>>128782413
>Lol, it's hard to get more bourgeoisie than a lawyer. This is hilarious.

How? Lawyers are literally the simbol of oppression. We fight for the rights of the working class, work our butts off while banks and corporations keep all the resources. Bourgeois OWN means of production we don't own shit.

>If the state doesn't actually distribute it to those who actually work it's not socialism. It's not like the worker isn't alienated from his products ig the king comes and takes all of it away from him. By your standard even feudal countries can count as socialist. Lol the pinnacle of socialism is apparently some dictator owning everything in the country.
It does, buy paying the workers money and then giving the profits to the treasury which gives it back in the forms of military, police force, roads, infastructure, education, water filter systems, all that.

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>>128772315
>Tfw I'm a bourgeoisie

>>128770382
Government redistribution has never and will never be efficient

>>128783160
But eventually, all humans will be worthless

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>>128781711
>wouldn't be morally bankrupt
Oh yeah in your imaginary utopia that's probably true, it seems in you opinion you are the pure of heart paragon of virtue that will further marxist doctrine faithfully and then Stalin (or someone like him) will come along and stab you in the dead of night, then do whatever the fuck they want. Rationally enact laws that justify "purging" millions How do we know this? It has happened over and over again through out the last century.

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>>128783228
>Lawyers

>>128782321
Yeah bullshit.

>>128782243
The market, market socialism.

>>128782528
Well yeah i come home from school what else am i going to do?

>>128782907
>In capitalism you have no class mobility, you are born poor you stay poor you born rich you stay rich
source?

>>128782557
>read a book
Sorry i don't like getting brainwashed.

>>128783256
Wtf I hate capitalism now

>>128770382

You're absolutely right, a planned and centralised economy is without a doubt the most efficient ideology, if by "most efficient ideology" you mean "the ideology most able to gain the maximum collective gain from a finite amount of resources and time."

But in my opinion, the problem is that you're still falling for the "efficiency, progress and product are the most important things in human existence" meme. The main difference is that under Capitalism, as the image you posted correctly pointed out, there are some crafty and privileged people who get to unfairly game the system to live off of the hard work of others.

What if efficiency, produce, progress and output aren't the end goals of human existence, though? What if the collective good isn't what will make people, as individuals, happy?

The way I see it, in order to solve this, we need to go right back on a philosophical level and examine exactly what it is that we think life is about - what we think it means.

I long ago came to the conclusion that seeing technological progress, efficient output, or good use of resources and space brings me no happiness whatsoever. Those things might be necessary (to some degree) to deliver things that CAN improve lives in a meaningful way - for example, decent medical treatment, or support for people who have fallen on hard times in some way - but it's a very utilitarian point of view to consider life as an arbitrary game of resource management where the objective is, effectively, to get a high score.

My advice to you would be to work out what it is that makes YOU, as a person, happy. I know I said up there that we should try and work out the overall meaning, but if you spend your life taking that literally and working out "what's best for everyone", you'll waste your limited time on this earth trying to control the lives of others - just like "true believer" capitalists AND socialists have done for generations before us.

Focus on yourself. Not on "everyone".

>>128783228
>It does, buy paying the workers money
where did that money come from? (taxes)

>>128783424
Exactly, check your ideology.

Unless something is done, huge sections of our gene pool will soon start dying on the vine. The middle and working class are going to get eaten alive.

>>128783367
work a job

>>128770382
So how exactly does socialism allocate resources so effecitvely? You seem to have omitted that and just claimed that they do without any actual reasoning.

>>128783367
>The market, market socialism.
then you are an anarcho capitalist

>>128782729
Yeah

>>128782721
I'm from a working class family

>>128770382
>a child posts on /pol/
oh i guess you'll fit right in
back in my day it was different
reminder it will be my day for a long long time more

>>128783548
>not even recognising a meme

>>128782839
https://www.google.ca/search?q=working+for+a+boss&rlz=1C1NHXL_enCA725CA725&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi_l6-dmarUAhUF-mMKHQw-AlsQ_AUICigB&biw=1920&bih=974#tbm=isch&q=business+cycle&imgrc=eG0a_mI7zh_PtM:

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>>128783367
>Doesn't work a job after school
>Thinks he's working class

>>128783394
>Sorry i don't like getting brainwashed.
The leafiest leaf that ever did leaf.

>>128783612
if consent exists then capitalism has not done anything wrong

>>128783548
What's the solution to this dilemma?

>>128783548
don't forget: the working class still makes and runs every machine and facet in and of society

>>128782905
Grow up

>>128782942
You're dumb

>>128783128
This. CIA is why we have ghettos/slums

>>128783724
and this does not happen under socialism?

>>128783724
>posting a raw Google search link
Nigga what the fuq

>>128773969
Dude you've ever worked a day in your life and you're talking about this shit so ideologically.

You obviously have a jaded view on society if you think you're some upper echelon of life because you're a lawyer over a janitor.

What I'm saying is you, your father and your grandfather are BAD people for thinking this way. Your career is using lies and loopholes to siphon money out of people.

Maybe if you loose this odd superiority complex your views on socialism wouldn't sound so hypocritical and naive.

I hope your entire family is killed by a drunk driver.

>>128783612
>Grandfather owns law firm
Sure you are, leaf.

>>128783854
sorry niggas can cook

or are they too stupid to know how to?

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>>128770382
You have Communism and Capitalism mixed up.

>>128783228
You're right about being the symbol of oppression, but not in the way you think you are. If anything, lawyers are hated more than bankers and rich CEOs. Think about it, most people have never met the head of a bank or the CEO of a megacorp, but tons of people have had bad experiences with lawyers.
Q: What's the difference between a skunk and a lawyer?
A: If I see a skunk crossing the street I'll swerve away from him.
If you seriously see lawyers as proles then you understand nothing of "class consciousness" you lefties are so obsessed with.

>>128770382
As long as its anti-marxist IE National Socialism, Im ok with it

socialism is really fucking smart for about 6 months

I can teach you how to be rich and succesful, leaf. Would you like to know? This way you will stop being a tool. Hopefully

>>128783092
Alright I guess i will do that i don't know if i will switch to capitalism tho

>>128783103
I was a lifeguard for 3 years dingus

>>128783160
You are for capitalism, a system that takes money from those who work and give it to those who don't. And I have good genes. The doctor said i had a good immune system.

>>128783797
That's a subject for another thread my friend.

Basically, eventually humans are going to stop being the primary drivers of economy. When that happens, we should shift society to focus primarily on human rearing, rather than economic output. Tech level will be limited so humans can still compete for resources, mates, and such. Life will still be a competitive place. But you'll avoid washing away our entire gene pool

This human society will still exist, and it will be guarded and protected by transhumans. Like a hard eggshell around a nucleus

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>>128784172
>Lifeguard
>working class

holy shit this is too much

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>>128770382
>Implying that communism doesn't have the same structure

>>128783234
Stop oppressing the workers ok?

>>128783304
>it wasn't real capitalism
You're totally not kidding

>>128783371
https://www.google.ca/search?q=american+civil+war+generals&rlz=1C1NHXL_enCA725CA725&oq=american+civil+war+generals&aqs=chrome..69i57.2599j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Here's a quick example. Every single Civil war general came from an aristocrat family. EVERY SINGLE ONE. I could do the same with every single branch of government or corporations

>>128780582
national socialism sounds fucking neato.
got myself a real job. dangerous heavy industry with a lot of physical labor.
when i get my paycheck i get frustrated every time because of all the taxes i pay. it would be fine if i knew the taxes went to health care, the old and the military so other nations might take us seriously. but i know it doesn't.
it goes to flat screen TVs in prison, apartments and hotels for shitskin immigrants and unemployed leechers. there is nothing stopping someone from staying unemployed their entire lives.
and when i get old my pension will be sliced every year by a certain percentage. at work there is a 68 year old working there because his pension got sliced shorter. old people are getting divorces because married people get 20% less pensions all of a sudden. one hospital had X-ray machines from the 60s. ''give it to me straight doc, do i have cancer?'' ''well you do now atleast.''
if we can't afford to pay geezers what they are owed, or new shit for our hospitals, we can't afford TVs for inmates or housing one single fucking refugee.
don't ever buy the leftist meme. this country is going to hell. all of Europe is. soft people because the brave men died in the world wars.

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>>128784172
>You are for capitalism, a system that takes money from those who work and give it to those who don't.

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>>128770526
Hi I'm Rick Harrison and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old man and my son Big Hoss. Everything in here has a story and a price. One thing I've learned after 21 years is watch the darkies cuz they all still everything you got

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>>128771441

>in capitalism you get nothing
Refer to my post.

Still too much faith in humans. The guy you were replying to has the right idea.

AI Overlord 2020

>capitalism
>not work
>regular capitalism

I think you need to watch more videos.

>under socialism you have to work to get resources

What do the words "spread the wealth" mean to you?

>bourgeois

I'm not necessarily one to believe it's (((them))) but maybe I just need to look into it more.

>>128783435
I see what you are saying is sort of like how Varg says it. I agree that technology is shit, it destroys jobs and ruins our lives. But i don't see us turning back time (to the good dope days) just kidding, but seriously i think it doesn't work since other nations will progress while you go back

>>128783526
No actually, from selling the oil, food, and stuff it creates.

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>>128770640
Before you ask questions to make fun of me. Yes I'm 18 years old, im in highschool and my dad is the guy with the law firm. Technically it's still my grandparents but my dad is his only son and he's inheriting it when my grandfather dies and is getting all the profits.

Since i am allowed to stay up late on friday and Saturday night I stay up to like 2A.M watching videos and reading arguments for capitalism and socialism. I spend a lot of time on this. It came to me that both systems are simple ways to transfer resources from one person to another. Investment is nothing more than a temporary change of resource to someone for an even greater exchange back.

This is why socialism is more efficient, it allocates resources exactly as needed while capitalism fucks around with mal-investment, unemployment, foreclosure, and bourgeoisie capitalists. All that is WASTED resources and labour, socialism does not put up with that.

>>128784442
National Socialism is great, except it can only function in a closed border, patriotic ethnostate.

So it's about as viable as communism at the moment.

After the race war we'll talk.

>>128784570
Holy shit that image is compressed to hell

>>128784626
Before you ask questions to make fun of me. Yes I'm 18 years old, im in highschool and my dad is the guy with the law firm. Technically it's still my grandparents but my dad is his only son and he's inheriting it when my grandfather dies and is getting all the profits.

Since i am allowed to stay up late on friday and Saturday night I stay up to like 2A.M watching videos and reading arguments for capitalism and socialism. I spend a lot of time on this. It came to me that both systems are simple ways to transfer resources from one person to another. Investment is nothing more than a temporary change of resource to someone for an even greater exchange back.

This is why socialism is more efficient, it allocates resources exactly as needed while capitalism fucks around with mal-investment, unemployment, foreclosure, and bourgeoisie capitalists. All that is WASTED resources and labour, socialism does not put up with that.

>>128783557
You get a job

>>128783729
I am a lifeguard dingus

>>128783570
By owning the means of production so all the wealth created can benefit the people

>>128783578
No, i support a capitalist economy but where the government owns all mines, factories, farms, technology production, and such and so forth

>>128783760
Yes it has, i never consented to capitalism

>>128782907
>In socialism a poor person can become rich with hard work
No, because as soon as you have more than your neighbor, the government will redistribute it, because they see economics as a zero sum game (which to be fair, it is in socialist economies :^) ) and so you must have stolen from somebody else.

>>128782654

>teacher in high school

corpses don't talk dumbass

The problem is there are moral hazards built into the system and corrupt people will always find away to exploit them The "elites" ie the people who benefit from the system no matter what it's professed ideology are going to do anything to maintain their access to all of it. We need a trustless system, where nobody is required to be trusted like the blockchain.

>>128770382
If the currency isn't gold then it is not capital, rather it is a unit of social privilege.

>>128784804
>No, i support a capitalist economy but where the government owns all mines, factories, farms, technology production, and such and so forth

That's not socialism. At all.

Everyone remember, we are literally arguing with someone who believes Hugo Chavez is a capitalist

This is not a thread for serious discussion, memes only

>>128774383
>Sorry im too educated and rational for that crap
*Tips Fedora

>>128784172
I've never seen a post filled with such strawmannery and cringe before

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>>128770382

> NATIONAL SOCIALISM <

>>128770382
oh wow a dumbass kid wasting everyones time
in canada no less

>>128783948
That's my grandfather not me

>>128783644
I'm by definition an adult

>>128783859
No since the government prints money during recessions and destroys money during booms

>>128783907
Open it, just like you need to open your mind

>>128783930
WHAT THE FUCK DUDE! I'm agreeing with everything you said except the drunk driving part. I hate my family for being bourgaise douchbag.I think law firm owners are scum capitalists. Look. I am saying i would want to be a lawyer in a SOCIALIST world so i am equal 100% to anyone else. I hate capitalists

>>128784804
>No, i support a capitalist economy but where the government owns all mines, factories, farms, technology production, and such and so forth

You support communism.

How does it feel to have swallowed the propaganda of the worse ideology in world history?

>>128784051
Ok well that's just the banks turning the working classes against other working class members

>>128784064
I'm against Marxism culturally but economically mrax was based

>>128784136
Sure

>>128784351
We work, we get paid, we have a wage, we work for a higher-up. How are we not working class? This isn't baywatch

>>128784751
>Before you ask questions to make fun of me. Yes I'm 18 years old, im in highschool and my dad is the guy with the law firm. Technically it's still my grandparents but my dad is his only son and he's inheriting it when my grandfather dies and is getting all the profits.
>Since i am allowed to stay up late on friday and Saturday night I stay up to like 2A.M watching videos and reading arguments for capitalism and socialism. I spend a lot of time on this. It came to me that both systems are simple ways to transfer resources from one person to another. Investment is nothing more than a temporary change of resource to someone for an even greater exchange back.
>This is why socialism is more efficient, it allocates resources exactly as needed while capitalism fucks around with mal-investment, unemployment, foreclosure, and bourgeoisie capitalists. All that is WASTED resources and labour, socialism does not put up with that.

>>128784202
Is there anywhere to get information about this topic?

>>128784751
>Before you ask questions to make fun of me. Yes I'm 18 years old, im in highschool and my dad is the guy with the law firm. Technically it's still my grandparents but my dad is his only son and he's inheriting it when my grandfather dies and is getting all the profits.
>
>Since i am allowed to stay up late on friday and Saturday night I stay up to like 2A.M watching videos and reading arguments for capitalism and socialism. I spend a lot of time on this. It came to me that both systems are simple ways to transfer resources from one person to another. Investment is nothing more than a temporary change of resource to someone for an even greater exchange back.
>
>This is why socialism is more efficient, it allocates resources exactly as needed while capitalism fucks around with mal-investment, unemployment, foreclosure, and bourgeoisie capitalists. All that is WASTED resources and labour, socialism does not put up with that.

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>>128779972
my question still sands and i'm curious about your answer
>>128780538

>>128785111
All socialists are just communists too afraid to admit they're communists, because "socialist" is more politically correct.

>>128784404
It does but at least it's a meritocracy and has class mobility

>>128784442
LOL, most of your taxes go to Social Security, then the military. You are uneducated

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If communism is so great for the working class, why does the working class consistently vote against it?

In fact, working class voters have historically been the biggest obstacle to communism

>>128785087
>Look. I am saying i would want to be a lawyer in a SOCIALIST world so i am equal 100% to anyone else.

In a socialist world the lawyers would just be shot because they have no purpose because the law would be "gulag anyone that doesn't do exactly as they're told".

>>128784570
Basically i mean they should redistribute resources from those who don't work (capitalists) and give it to us, the working people

>>128770382
Alright faggot. You know whats wrong with your shitty image?

Your image is comunism.

The commoners dying, the fat aristocrats, the "privileged" army, the "out of the system" religion and the ruler-above-all. All of them fixated in their position. Higher ups secure and peasants stuck. Thats The USSR, thats Cuba, Thats North Korea.

In capitalism you have OPTIONS.

The soldiers have it so well? Bitch please. Everyone on any low ranking job will have it shitty. Thats why they either move ahead or stop bitching about it.

You know who comunists raved was exploited? The proletariat. Example: farmers. You know who had it shitty in comunist rusia? Farmers. In america and everywere else farmers were land owners that earned good money. Oh wait now are the farmhands that are explioted arent they? By the big mean capitalist that pays for everything?

And for your "ineficence" you want to perfectly plan what HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of human beings will consume for ONE year? Well good fucking luck. People tried and the results speak. You simply cannot dehumanize people and control them for "the common good" like so many tried.

Theres poverty and waste and shit but capitalism WORKS. Compare America with North Korea, Canada with Eastern Europe FUCK Mexico with Cuba and for all its fails capitalism WORKS.

>>128775209
>Also look at Ireland in the 1860s, Potato famine since it was capitalist

If true, then famine would have had to have been unavoidable in all the other capitalist lands that the potato blight hit. Famine was not unavoidable in all the capitalist lands that the potato blight hit. Ergo being capitalist did not cause the potato famine in Ireland.

>>128770382
>leaf
>highschool
>rich family
>daddy issues
Yeah, of course you would be a socialist.

It's so real I can't even tell if it's parody or not. Damn good job OP.

>>128785087
Dang your father fucked up raising you.

-Socialism lets government use its power efficiently, because there are no restraints to its power.
-That is not how it should work. The people should be free, government should have limits.
-The government will often lie, and promise free shit, in order to convince the people that socialism is in their best interest. Otherwise, no one would vote for their own enslavement.