"I think that the oppression of animals is the gateway drug

We have more important things to worry about than how animals are kept before they're cut apart. Stop wasting everyone's time with these non-issues.

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>>128551832

Yep more important things that can't be achieved with veganism. Riiight.

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>>128551832

Climate change.

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>>128551832

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>>128551832
Animal suffering is very real. They may be less complex, but your superiority doesn't delegitimize their experience.

>>128556052
>iams tests on animals
well I would hope so

>>128551832
>more important things to worry about than how animals are kept before they're cut apart
Exactly, like making sure they aren't cut apart. Right on my man.

Man I love killing animals, especially if I'm going to eat them.

>>128552035
Not eating my steak won't suddenly feed those 50 kids tho.
Also not my problem, stop feeding african children. They all grow up and come to Europe.

Less niggers, more steak please.

>>128556825
>Less niggers, more steak please.
Only correct answer.

>>128556825
>Spaniard
>affording steak

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Dumping

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Reminder that herbivores have significantly lower intelligence on average than carnivores, and omnivores vastly surpass both

Reminder that nature's smartest creatures - humans, chimps, pigs, dolphins, crows - are all omnivorous

Reminder that protein and fat are linked to exponential brain development and continued brain health

Reminder that vegetable oil is worse for your body than lard or fat obtained from animals

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Vegans are baby killers

>>128557156
If you buy it at the butcher shop you can get them for pretty good prices.
I can cook it myself just fine.
I also usually go to a restaurant to eat a nice steak once a week.

I afford it by not having other luxuries like drinking, smoking or buying things all the time, but it's worth it in my opinion.

>>128557312
>protein intake over thousands of years had a continued effect on the evolution of brain growth
>therefore I need to eat meat right now
hmmmmm. There seems to have been a lot of things that helped evolution along, like rape and murder, that we don't find ethical anymore

I'm against having and animal cruelty laws in place, so yeah I'm inns eat all the ham sandwiches I want to.

>>128557673
Fucking autocorrect, whatever

>>128551712
Pigs always have been a source of food.
Killing a dog is like killing your 15,000 year old hunting buddy.

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>>128557658
>let's stop evolving, we already did it enough

>>128557861
>Rape and murder have always happened in the past
>Therefore it is ethical to do them now

>>128557658
when was that ethical? before the agricultural revolution when we were all hunter-gatherers?

you're telling me rape and murder were ethical in small tribes that needed each other to survive?

>>128551712
do you fuck your mother too? a pussy is a pussy.
no?

>>128557922
>implying humans are still in the process of natural selection
top kek

>>128558040
The point is that appealing to what has happened in the past is not an argument for what we ought to do. Otherwise someone could say that we should still be making human sacrifices and such

>>128557980
When was rape and murder ever ethical?

>>128552035
>wanting to feed niggers so that they can birth more niggers to beg for food

>>128551712
100% correct.
If you you are an adult and you arent vegan you are either A) woefully ignorant, B) a piece of shit or C) incapable of critical thought.

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>>128557345

Based Spaniard.

Texas is known for its steaks, thanks to the cattle trails and Spanish rancheros.

Nothing satisfies the man quite like a well prepared steak dinner.

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>>128557345

Based Spaniard.

Texas is known for its steaks, thanks to the cattle trails and Spanish rancheros.

Nothing satisfies the man quite like a well prepared steak dinner.

>>128556052
>>128551712
>muh moralfaggotry
Crying about irrelevant animals that dont even have self awareness is like crying about that bug you stepped on a few hours ago.

>>128558185
You're just extrapolating to make the argument seem ridiculous.

Certain things should be abandoned, certain things kept. Not eating meat is just stupid. You need a lot of money for supplements and proper food so you won't have constant deficiencies.

It's pointless.

>>128558203
See >>128558203
In some cultures it has been (and continues to be). And prior to civilization it's what got our species along. But this is all besides the point. The fact that humans have historically raped and murder is not justification for what we ought to do in the future.

>>128558428
You're right, some things should be kept and others abandoned. Which is why >>128557861
is a terrible argument. But your argument isn't much better. It also takes a lot of money to keep people alive, but we do all sorts of things to make sure people don't die. What difference is a few adjustments to your lifestyle to make sure animals don't have to needlessly die? In other words, what is the significant moral distinction between a human and an animal?

>>128551712
>look and seem alike
Biology exam: F.

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>>128551712
You gotta love marxism. Since there is no such thing as culture and cultural heritage, and it's all a social construct in the post-all world we live in, how is it different to eat a pig from eating a dog?

>>128558656
I have to care about a human more, my bias for humans is intrinsic and was favored by evolution so I can care about my group and have a better chance at survival.

Not treating humans well sets a bad precedent that could affect me and the ones that are personally attached to me, mistreating animals is not ideal, but evolution didn't favor empathy to apply to other animals to the same extent.

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>>128551712
>that's the first time that we instill the notion in a child's mind that it is okay to discriminate between two living beings that basically look and seem alike
God forbid we discern between two evidently different groups.

>>128551712
Those dogs are obviously stuffed in to those cages like sardine where the pigs have a little personal space. You are undone by your own incompetence.

>>128552035
>filled with cooked cereal grains
You mean those grains that were meant for agriculture and were instead eaten straight away, so the begging for food would start again??

>>128551712
the argument, while logic, is flawed because the child only comes in contact with the dog, and he's told to love him. The child never comes in contact with the pig, he only sees food and is told it comes from a pig.

Those kids that do come in contact with the pig growing up before killing it and eating it do cry for the pig. It happens in every farm, with pigs, chickens, cows, etc. And those kids learn a more valuable lesson: life is hard and ugly and either you kill the pig to eat it or you starve to death.

Applying modern moralities to old lifestyles is not only unfair but ridiculous. If it weren't for humanity killing animals to feed themselves we would have all starved to death centuries ago.

But it's very easy to go to the corner supermarket, buy all your veggies, live a comfy life and then wag the finger to those who live the hard rural life so we can get our nice food in the city, or to our ancestors who had to pave the way with their blood sweat and tears to build everything we now have.

And I'm a vegan

>>128557312
intelligence is meaningless for survival unless you understand the ecosystem(s) around you. You only need to be smart enough to stay alive.
I love those stupid survival shows were you have all these jack offs who think that camping out in the woods outside of their house is hardcore. And on the show all they do is kill- kill- kill- to eat. The highlights of the show is them just murdering things. When there are hundreds of edible plants around them. Irony.

>>128558962
Our biological predispositions are not good arguments about what our morality ought to be. Again, I might have a strong urge to have sex with a beautiful woman walking by because evolution, but that doesn't make raping her ethical. We suppress all sorts of biologically driven functions in favor of what we deem ethical. So you still have to prove why animals ought to be treated differently, not just explain why we tend to act the way we do.

>>128551712
Libtards are so fucking stupid. Do they know how fast pigs breed? Do they know how fucked up it'd get if we didn't keep their populations in line? Wild pigs would be going fucking nuts. If we didn't farm them we'd still hunt them because they are literal prey to us and we play a vital role in their ecosystem.

>>128552035
>feed 50 african kids
>they grow up and are incapable of feeding themselves
>they still have 5 kids each
>there are now 250 african kids to feed
Disregard nigger, acquire steak

>>128559190
I did explain why.

Being attracted to a beautiful woman and wanting to rape her are not the same thing.

The problem with you is that you're trying to find an objective answer to a matter that is different shades of subjective.

>>128551712
Alex Hershaft sounds like a guy who spends a lot of time overthinking everything but lacks the cognitive ability to grasp anything.

>>128559162
Stop hurting plants, you monster. Do their lives mean nothing?

>>128551712
I don't give much of a fuck about chinks eating dogs, as long as they don't try to steal other people's dogs. It is more of a matter of pointing fingers at them and laughing, than moral indignation.

>>128551712
Israel has the most vegans and vegetarians per capita.
I'm pretty sure Palestinians are so glad they like to eat vegetables

My biggest problem with this whole morality crusade to save animals is a clear and definite product of a 1st world abundant society. Congratulations you live in such a superior society that you actually have the fucking choice to push away select groups of foods based on your morals and feelings its literally a living breathing actual quantifiable form of "privilege" that most leftys scream about (spoiler alot of vegans are lefties).

And my second problem is that this reeks of western imperialism and trying to force you morally superior worldview on to everyone else. Do you think you have the right to supercede thousands of years of foreign cultures because you want to save the planet and or a few cute animals? Seriously go fuck yourself meat eating and other carnivorous activities are so deeply ingrained physically and spiritually in some cultures and to just demand that people should do away with it beacuse it makes you feel good inside? Seriously go fuck yourself with a yam you retarded prevleged hippie fuck

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>>128551712
Sorry anon, I have no selective compassion.
I do not judge other nations for eating dogs, cats, pigs, ice cubes or even humans.
They are OTHER nations.

>>128559285
No, but saying that I am justified in raping her because of my biological urges is the same as saying that I am justified in eating meat because of my biological urges. Nothing I have said so far has pushed objectivism. I'm just pointing out that there's no reason to exclude animals from our moral considerations unless you can point to some feature that distinguishes us from them in a morally relevant way

>>128559190
We are evolved to eat meat. Simple as that. Nor is there is anything inherently wrong about taking the life of an animal, especially when it comes to taking that life for nourishment. An animal is an animal and human is a distinctly different animal- just look at our ability to create.

>>128552035
I'd go and order more steaks right now if I'm assured that this has a change of reducing the number of niggers.

>>128553724

Shit like this makes me want to go part vegan but still eat fish

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>>128551712
I was vegan for 10 years. I broke my streak to eat bacon this year.
I was not hungry for bacon, I only did it to signal to God my hatred for the islamic tentacle of the beast system, and my undying allegiance to our lord and savior Jesus Christ.
Not memeing

>>128551712
Wrong... pack animals have a higher sense of socialization, not to mention the fact that we selectively bred them to be an asset for thousands of years.

You're a naive faggot, and I honestly hope you and all the Chinese die from cancer in the worst way. I look forward to the future war, when I get to slaughter thousands of nips and shovel heads without recourse.

>>128552035
I'd go and order more steaks right now if I'm assured that this reduces the number of niggers.

If you arent vegan in this day and age you are a fucking degenerate

>>128551712
>>128551712
Wrong... pack animals have a higher sense of socialization, not to mention the fact that we selectively bred them to be an asset for thousands of years.

You're a naive faggot, and I honestly hope you and all the Chinese die from cancer in the worst way. I look forward to the future war, when I get to slaughter thousands of nips and shovel heads without recourse.

>>128551712
"only elites should be allowed to eat meat it's bad for the rest of us" - WHO

If it doesn't sound suspicious for you then nothing will.

>>128559543
Some of the worst Aussie shitposting all week, step it up.

If you arent vegan in this day and age you are a fucking degenerate

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>>128559385

I'm actually centre-right but alrighty then.

i heard in EU, they can make meat out of test tube. In 10 years, the price could go down.
And everyone can have good tasting meat for fair price.

>>128556052
>hurr duhr insecticide manufacturers test their products on animals
So how are they supposed to make sure they work then?

>>128553724
I like how they've showed lamb but didn't show mutton.

>>128559644
Great job adressing those points i made champ

>>128559466
Again, evolution is not a good argument as to what we should base our morals on. I've evolved to have sexual urges; does that mean it's okay for me to rape? The appeal to evolution is called the naturalistic fallacy. Sure humans are different than animals, but we are also different from each other. What characteristic do we all have in common that makes morality possible? That we can all suffer. And this is a capacity that animals share with us in a morally relevant way.

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>>128552035

>>128556052
>Raid

Maybe they should test it on Turkish citizens.

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>>128556199
Kek'd and checked

>>128559739
>I've evolved to have sexual urges; does that mean it's okay for me to rape?
And this one is called a strawman. And being able to talk about other people's fallacies while ignoring your own is called hypocrisy.

>>128559385
You do raise some important concerns. But actually the US imports a lot of its meat from third world countries who raise livestock because it is more profitable to sell to the US than growing vegetables and grain. There have been several "pseudo famines" in third world countries where there was actually enough grain to go around, but the grain was exported to feed livestock. Ultimately though, you are right that giving up meat is often a 1st world privilege. I think the point though is that if you have the capacity to give it up, you should; not that people in third world countries should starve rather than eat meat.

Your second point is tough. Are some moral standards not more correct than others? Should we say that every culture has an equal claim to their practices, even if that means they stone people to death, eat other people, make human sacrifies, etc.? Are notions of human dignity and respect just relative? Or are there some things that we can say are better than others?

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>>128559739
I knew I would find the faggo- I mean people person one day that would fit this meme 100%.
You should be proud.

>>128559231
UNDERRATED

>>128559914
It's not a stawman at all, it's an argument from analogy. It's also not my own. It's been used by many famous environmental philosophers, most notably Peter Singer. It's a solid analogy; in both cases, the claim is that we turn to biological or evolutionary fact to explain what we ought to do.

>>128553724
>>128552035
These two arguments cancel each other out I think. Can't criticize the short lifespan of the animals and the amount of grain to feed them. If we kept them until old age, the meat would be worse and we'd use many times more feed that apparently could be feeding Africa or something

>>128559452
Except that isn't the same. Empathy has evolved specifically so you can avoid harm to members of your own group so that your group is healthier and has higher chances of survival.

I fail to see what's natural about raping a woman. Especially since most societies in human history looked down on that.

I did explain what's different between humans and other animals. We have an in-group mentality that favors ourselves. It's an evolutionary design with the purpose of self-defense.

>>128559644
That pic is stupid because you don't cut throat like this, you stun the pig with a mallet first.

When you or any other animal is stressed, you produce adrenaline. Adrenaline forces glycogen which is stored inside of your muscles as an energy source to "run out" and turn into glucose and then energy. Dying because of your throat being cut is a perfect example of stressful situation.
However, if you die without stress, all that glycogen turns into some acid, I think milk acid(can be called different in English) which:

1. Gives meat its colour
2. Gives meat its taste(or a lot of it) - interesting sidenote - Chinese don't like that taste in their dog so they often boil them alive, but in Europe there was never a custom of boiling/cooking animals alive.
3. Makes meat softer
4. Preserves it

Remember to tell this to every single vegan showing you those dumb videos from slaughterhouses, where they're showing employees who are about to get fired for spoiling the meat.

>>128556052
Half of these are dental stuff, what's bad about brushing a monkey's teeth then giving him some listerine?

>>128560109
>first strawman, now appeal to authority

keep it up, you don't do fallacies AT ALL

>>128560215
>ignoring the part where I explain how the analogy holds

>>128551712
fuck off with this retarded shit. read 'A Critique of the Moral Defense of Vegetarianism' then come back instead of coming in with your moral grandstanding on the basis of muh feefees. we don't have the space to feed 7 billion people without factory farming. it would be impossible to do so with crop farms as they're too inefficient. you're posting these retarded kikebook memes that have no semblance of logic in them, they're just pitiful emotional appeals designed to grab the attention of women. you can whine about animal suffering all you want but it's the fucking food chain, it's a fact of life that you pathetic vegos can't seem to grasp. you would rather us all die for a fucking cow.

>>128552035
Africans refused high grain yield strains because they've been cursed with devil magic though.

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>>128559720

Heh. Didn't really come here to debate, just to piss pol off for shits and gigs. But I'll tango.

The privilege of which you speak is exercise by you on a daily basis. You get to choose whatever food you like, vegan or not. The only barrier to anyone would be health or financial reasons. Just as you turn eating purely vegan food away, I turn eating non-vegan food away; you indulge in the 'privilege' too. What's the alternative? That I foolishly reject the privilege offered to me? Why? What is the logic behind that? This is about animal rights which coincidentally; it manifesting through a 'privilege' is purely coincidental, and incredibly useful. To not exercise the privilege would be to reject the rights of animals. I am not doing this for my own good - it's for the animals. This is no different to a lawyer taking carriage of a case for their client. The lawyer has the privilege to defend the rights of their client.

'western imperialism': a policy of extending a country's power and influence through colonization, use of military force, or other means.

Think you've got the wrong word there, mate.

Anyway. Which cultures? There's thousands to choose from and many have different practices that are 10's of thousands of years old, like stoning homosexuals and heck, even eating each other. Why should we, as a liberal demographic society, be reduced to their sub-standards of primitive cultural behaviour? Time to advance; the next step in the human evolution timeline is an increase in mental prowess, and it involves fine-tuning our empathetic abilities if we are ultimately to succeed as a species.

>>128560010
In my opinion and im sure you have yours is that i am fine with most cultral or theological traditions as long as they do not infringe on the rights of other peoples or the respective laws of there countries and in that regard i do not hold animals in a similar light maybe if one day animals some how gain more rights or veganism is enforced or made more attractive than the norm when it comes to food i will accept that but as i am now i will continue as i do with eating a mixed diet of meats and vegatables that are available to me

>>128560295
When I spot a hypocrite, I ignore everything else.

Good luck convincing others though, or better yet bring mister Peter Singer the environmental ''philosopher'' to do it for you. Maybe he won't have to do the appeal to authority fallacy since he is the authority.

>>128552035
>>128556052
>>128556448
I understand you hate people eating meat, but the stereotype of the annoying vegetarians doesn't come from thin air.

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>>128560306

So out of interest what pro-vegan books have you read to challenge your views?

>>128559739
You are forgetting one thing idiot. Animals aren't our species. Our species is social, so doing bad stuff to it's members is detrimental to us. The same can't be said about other animals. This is literally just moralfagging over harsh biological nature.

>>128560367
lol fag

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>>128560599

Are you saying animals aren't social?

The standard is the capacity for sentience, anyway, but regardless - just interested to know if you base your aversion to veganism off whether animals are social.

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>>128556825
this lmao time to buy more steak

>>128560588
i read animal liberation about 10 years ago. after that i realised that they're all going to be just as bad and have no grounds in reality until farmageddon came out (really good book if you havent read it). There's definitely problems with factory farming but there's no alternative until we develop cultured meat. when you can come up with a way to feed 7 billion people with grains let me know. until then i'll be content with eating meat until the synthetic version comes in

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Anyway, need to go make dinner, if thread's still here I might continue to post.

>>128560783
Nice strawman. I am not saying they aren't social. But they aren't our species. My point is that because our species is social, hurting members of it is detrimental to us.

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>>128551712
So, "other nations" is supposed to refer to Best Korea and Worst Korea, since that's the only place that ever really was that sentimental about soy, while China more than agreed about Pig being the ideal meat animal?

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>>128560937

Yeah, didn't like Farmageddon. I suggest you read 'Eat Like You Care' by Gary Francione, and any other of his stuff. First like 20 pages are free here: https://www.amazon.com.au/Eat-Like-You-Care-Examination-ebook/dp/B00DLTN43C

http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/

>>128560367
Sorry i thought imperialism meant trying to force your cultures and morals onto other ones whoops if you know the proper term let me know

And i terms of the privilege argument if i didnt clarify it properly is some people do not have a choice in the matter of eating strictly vegan in 3rd world countries nor do we have the ability to produce other useful synthetic goods to replace by products such as oils glues leathers and a myraid of other useful things we take from animals as well. And that is great you do it for the care of the animals but from a cynical person like me i usually attribute these moral crusades akin to virtue signalling to feel good but thats just me.

Also as you say as a libral society it does not sound very libral that you support the dismantling of foreign cultures for the sake of evolutionary or societal progress infact that seems like a very far right viewpoint to have that foerign or uncivilized cultures are trivial and inferior

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>it's another "obnoxious vegan faggot screeches autistically about pigs" episode

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>>128551712
>selective compassion
As opposed to what? Literally nothing wrong with it.

>>128558379
100% incorrect. If you are an adult and are vegan you are actually an immature child that is still rebelling against you parents. (You) poor baby!

>>128561111
>literal knuckedraggers
is this vegansidekick website a parody? is it a mockery of pro-vegan arguments?

>>128551712
>selective compassion

so thats the mentality that says you have to have sex with every living organism on the planet rather than just your significant other for the purpose of being equal, right? because thats the most iconically retarded bullcrap ive heard since my mother birthed me

>>128551712
The difference between a pig and a dog is that the pig's only use is food.

>>128551712
and then what? are there punishments in the afterlife for profitable oppression of non-human and human sentients?