/pol/ communism general

Fuck off, Leftypol
You shit doesn't work here.

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>>128356651
There are communist countries in the world. Why not go enjoy their communist utopias, faggot?

>>128356651
You must be 18+ to post here

Oh look, it's Spainon posting his Jewish bullshit again.

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>>128356651
>reddit still trying
vermin leave

This shit is so low energy at this point. I un-ironically wanted communism at age 16 after reading the communist manifesto and karl marx. No less than 3 years later I realized how awfully bad results would be and understood the greatness that is capitalism. That was the day I stopped being a victim and chose my own fucking destiny.

sage

>>128356651

Fuck off filthy communists.

Where's your Finnish friend?

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>>128356838
>>128357008
>>128357090
>>128357190
>>128357270
Communism will win.
We will win the UK, just like we did in France. We will in the Germany next and other countries will follow. YPG Will win ISIS and we will have dual power in Syria.

>>128357692
>>128357754
LIKE CLOCKWORK

Hey retard, if your society is stateless, capitalists are going to be capitalists.

Communism can't even work in THEORY, why do you think it will work in reality?

>>128356651
How will you commies get rid of muzzie terrorists?

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>>128358161
We will end economic freedom of the individual to private property and give power to the workers councils that will first have to be guided by the party.
>>128357861
I have been posting here these communist generals since 2012 why would I stop now?

Also, when all activity is synonymous with the state, the state doesn't disappear: it is all powerful.

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Thread theme:
https://youtu.be/eDvSrMnL-8M

>>128358161

No, cos the anarcho-government will kill you for profiteering.

A lot of people don't know that "anarchism" as the leftists mean it does involve localised directly democractic governments.

It's not even "doesn't work in theory" it's not even anarchism in theory, there's still an entity that rules over you.

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>>128358273
Religion has no place in a socialist or communist society. We will tear down the mosques,temples and churches.

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>>128356651
I'm with you comrade. Capitalism causes so much social strife and poverty. Automation, UBI, and Socialism are the only future that do not cause extensive human misery.

>>128358477

Hey shitbrains, poverty is the default state of nature. Capitalism has almost erased poverty, and has not created any.

Capitalism is no more responsible for poverty than it is for Gravity. poverty is the natural order that capitalism defies by joining people together in voluntary transactions.

Capitalism is consensual sex, socialism is rape.

>>128357754
2020 CAPITALISM WILL COLLAPSE
I TOLD YOU GUYS

>>128358682

Then it's not stateless and not communism.

That's the point.

>>128359288

That's my entire point.

>>128359521

....so you were just repeating what I said In a dumber way?

>>128358791

Always laugh at westerners who have knowledge of living under communism advocating for it.

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>>128359068
Poverty is largely created by artifical market economies, markets don`t exsist without state or some kind of monopoly on violence.

Also there is no such thing as "sexual consent".

>>128359792
>Also there is no such thing as "sexual consent".
Typical soviet

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>>128357754
AHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You think a Muslim Germany, Muslim France, and Muslim UK will be accepting of communism? Have fun fighting Jihadist for you commie utopia.

>>128359068

Agree 100%. To extend your metaphor, the share of pussy is naturally distributed unevenly too.

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Hello gomrades! XDDDD Dis general is for disgussion of margsism-lebonnism, da ideology of revolutionary socialism and gommunism.

Gommunism is da next stage of guckery following real society.

Wat exagtly is gommunism according to gommies:

>Gommunism is a stage of guckery in which the produgtive infrustrugture runs away from gommie country, and no goods are produced and beeple starve. XDDDD
>Gommunism in full form is obressive, statist society dat follows maxim "gib gib gib!" :DDDD
>To achieve gommunism we must replace broduction with murderous obressive rulers liek me, fug working glass beeple. XDDDD Struggle while I liquidate you all lol. When capitalists run away we win and I kill you all. Eventually the functions of state cease and state becomes murderous and indistinguishable from other gommies. Da state withers away liek da people.
https://www.gommies.gom/fug/
https://www.gommies.gom/starve/

GL uses philosphy of gib and starve, see here:
https://www.gommies.gom/ohfugme/

It is recommend you kill yourself so you can avoid starving.

Resources:
https://www.gommies.gom/ohshid/
https://www.gommies.gom/1984/
https://www.gommies.gom/guck/
https://www.gommies.gom/probaganda/
https://www.gommies.gom/XDDDD/
https://www.gommies.gom/wheresfood/
https://www.gommies.gom/benis/

Da sdages of gommunism.

>Sdage one
Bourgers aren't allowed to vode :DDD but otherwise da system is digtadorshib of gommies. Everything is stole by digtadors and digtadors rule all.

>Sdade two
Withering
All beeple who aren't digtador glass starve. XDDD Once glass disabears and we steal everything more beeple wither away. Bolice begome unnecessary as beeple are dead lol :DDDDD Central blanning begomes unnecessary begause sgarcity caused starving. Money is all ours.

>Sdage three
Gommunism.
No beeple. No food. My money. Much benis.

>Sdage four
Nod real gommunism. Move on to nexd goundry :DDDDDDD

>>128359792
>Poverty is largely created by artifical market economies, markets don`t exsist without state or some kind of monopoly on violence


Nice unbacked assumption dickhead

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>>128359697
t. kulak reactionary
ps. you did not live under communism but deformed state capitalist "socialist" republic.

>>128359792

Extreme poverty is the natural state of all living things... except humans in modern capitalist societies.

>>128359697

They think it means they get to be rich rather than just making everyone impoverished.

But that's underneath a labrynth of cognitive dissonance and false expectations of independent actors acing in their own self-interest.

They are children without meta-thought.

>>128359965
i've seen this countless times and it's still hilarious

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>>128360202
>there was no extreme poverty in feudalism

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>>128356651
>sources
>marxists.org marxists.org marxists.org marxists.org marxists.org marxists.org marxists.org marxists.org marxists.org marxists.org marxists.org marxists.org marxists.org marxists.org marxists.org marxists.org marxists.org marxists.org marxists.org marxists.org marxists.org marxists.org marxists.org marxists.org marxists.org marxists.org marxists.org marxists.org marxists.org marxists.org marxists.org marxists.org marxists.org

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https://www.pscp.tv/w/1LyxBBEwwDyxN


LIVE NOW!

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>>128359892
All religions will be crushed under revolutionary heel.

>>128360216

The most anti-socialist, anti-communist countries in the world are those that lived under that last major attempt at it.

Even if it wasn't "real socialism" ...surely they realise the people then were attempting to create "real socialism." ...along with all the other appalling shitholes that collapsed when that country's idealistic hipster douchebags tried to create "real socialism" and were forced to create crappy cuba/USSR/venezuela style fuckups because reality won't conform to their ideology.

>>128359792

Explain your assertion.

My explanation is obvious: wild animals are impoverished. Humans are animals. All this wealth you see is a very, very new thing on the earth timeline.

How do you justify claiming that a failure to eliminate all poverty (not a goal) is the same as creating it?

>>128360216
Right to full fruits of our labor is indeed collective self-interest for the working class.

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stop be lazy, faggot

>>128360523

feudalism isn't a natural state you stupid cunt.

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>its always the spaniard and autistic fin
can you keep this garbage off /pol/ please
this board isn't for you

>>128360946
Development of markets,currency and social hiarchies and classes was only possible under centralized hiarchies, outside of them as history has shown whenever states collapse to anarchy is that the strongest of clans,gangs and other violent organizations rise to claim their monopoly on violence and create enough security for markets to be restored.

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>>128359965

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>>128361593
Neither is capitalism then, since it could have never risen without development of feudal society with rights to private property.

>>128361165

Guess what? Capitalism give you a right to the fruits of your labor!

It's called "being paid for doing a job".

Riddle me this: how can a surgeon be entitled to the fruits of his labor?

Does he own the person whose life he saved? He can't take home scars and stitches to feed his family; what fruits of his labor would he receive under communism?

>>128361598
I`m not going anywhere since I have been here since 2011. Spainiard can fuck off for being Stalinist and enemy of the revolution trough.

>>128361676

The best part is you said it yourself and still don't get it.

Anyways, how about actually answering the question?

>>128362090
His full wage without it being cut off for the profit of hospital hes working for.

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>>128362090

lol, like working in alienating jobs for a fraction of what your labor is worth?

>>128361894

The fuck is wrong with you? I already said capitalism defies the natural order of poverty and abysmal mortality rates.

I don't like the natural order: poverty is terrible.

This isn't some epic "gotcha" moment. I've already proudly stated the unnatural state of capitalism.

Poverty has been the ONLY state for BILLIONS of years. We've reduced poverty so much that the standards of what poverty is have become horribly skewed.

Poverty is not failing to pay your electricity bill, it is dying of starvation. And there was billions of years of that before humans came along.

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>>128362290
Because poverty did not exist before markets, therefor markets are creating it artificially.

I don`t want to eliminate poverty but the material conditions that sustain it.

>>128362090
He can take home nourishing protein in forms of removed body parts from his patients.

>>128362931
There can be no poverty if there is no wealth.

>>128362484

Okay, why does the hospital stay open?

HOW does it stay open? How can they pay the electric bill if a surgery costs 500 and the surgeon gets 500?

How do they maintain the tools? Do paperwork? Do ANYTHING?

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>>128362951

>>128360827
Religion is growing in China you pinko idiot

>>128363351
Central planning committee will provide resources of the up keeping for the hospital. His labor vouchers(ie his wage) is separate entity form it.

>>128362871

Yes you stupid fucking Mong.

Learn some skills and better yourself.

Or just shut the fuck up. 20/hrs a week at minimum wage can let you live better than any King who reigned more than 300 years ago.


That's insane. And you can thank capitalism.

>>128363554
Indeed and this due to capitalists running China. Cultural revolution still succeeded in its goals of weakening religion.

>>128362951
Yes it fucking did you insufferable fool.

You think capitalism invented starvation?

>>128363140

He grew those himself, the patient is entitled to the meat.

>>128360156
Okay then no one has lived under capitalism, only mixed economies.

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>>128362951
>Because poverty did not exist before markets, therefor markets are creating it artificially.
>this is what communists actually believe

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Hello gomrades! XDDDD Dis general is for disgussion of margsism-lebonnism, da ideology of revolutionary socialism and gommunism.

Gommunism is da next stage of guckery following real society.
Wat exagtly is gommunism according to gommies:
>Gommunism is a stage of guckery in which the produgtive infrustrugture runs away from gommie country, and no goods are produced and beeple starve. XDDDD
>Gommunism in full form is obressive, statist society dat follows maxim "gib gib gib!" :DDDD
>To achieve gommunism we must replace broduction with murderous obressive rulers liek me, fug working glass beeple. XDDDD Struggle while I liquidate you all lol. When capitalists run away we win and I kill you all. Eventually the functions of state cease and state becomes murderous and indistinguishable from other gommies. Da state withers away liek da people.
https://www.gommies.gom/fug/ https://www.gommies.gom/starve/

GL uses philosphy of gib and starve, see here:
https://www.gommies.gom/ohfugme/

It is recommend you kill yourself so you can avoid starving.

Resources:
https://www.gommies.gom/ohshid/
https://www.gommies.gom/1984/
https://www.gommies.gom/guck/
https://www.gommies.gom/probaganda/
https://www.gommies.gom/XDDDD/
https://www.gommies.gom/wheresfood/
https://www.gommies.gom/benis/

_________________________________

Da sdages of gommunism.
>Sdage one Bourgers aren't allowed to vode :DDD but otherwise da system is digtadorshib of gommies. Everything is stole by digtadors and digtadors rule all.

>Sdade two Withering All beeple who aren't digtador glass starve. XDDD Once glass disabears and we steal everything more beeple wither away. Bolice begome unnecessary as beeple are dead lol :DDDDD Central blanning begomes unnecessary begause sgarcity caused starving. Money is all ours.

>Sdage three Gommunism. No beeple. No food. My money. Much benis.

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>>128363681

I see you love the flavor of porky microcock.

so.. will you always be a cuck?

>>128363180

You are incredible.

You mean to say I can't starve to death unless someone has a TV? Poverty is the default for billions of years.

You don't even hate poverty, you are just an envious little bitch mad at successful people.

>>128357754
>Communism will win.
>there are zero examples of communism having worked

>>128363681
Kings owned entire countries as parts of their private property nobody on the minimum wage can say the same. They don`t own people,wast amounts of land etc.

>>128359965
this is such a prolific pasta I love it

>>128361894
Property rights existed before feudalism you illiterate commie

>>128356651
Nah

>>128359965
fuck i got beat to it

>>128363584


Sounds like that would take TAXES. Is not the surgeon entitled to his full wage?

>autistic finn ranting for hours in a dead thread

>>128356651
No thanks, I don't like authoritarian governments forcing people into submission and killing anyone who resists their flawed political ideology under the guise of morality tollerance and equality. Not everyone is equal. Some are stupid, some are smart, some are strong, some are weak. How bout we don't penalize the strong for working harder than the lazy. Stop following an idealist pipe dream.

>>128363857
No but I think that its not doing much to end it despite the fact that this planet could comfortably sustain population of 11 billion with the current farmlands and even without improvements in technology.

>>128363794
Sounds like thats the results of communism being inherently corrupt and instable to me.

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>>128356651
i always wanted to start going on a diet actually

>>128363794
As capitalists took over China the quality of life increased dramatically.

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>>128359965
Almost as good as egoism in terms of memetic counter measures for the left

>>128364190
>He said living in his parents basement

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Gays for communism

>>128364367
There would be no taxes since everything would be owned by the collective, resources would be allocated by the collective but his wages could be spent entirely on excess luxury instead of his sustenance,housing,healthcare etc.

>>128364238

Kings didn't have running hot water, electricity, and the entirety of human knowledge resting in their pocket.

you are not really blind, your eyes are
Simply closed.

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>>128361894
The problem of Capitalism can be solved with National Socialidm, not Marxism.

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>>128364766
Homosexuality is bourgeois AF and proto-fascist as well.
Liberals get the bullet too idiot.

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>>128364190
Keep pretending its not the eternal jew

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>>128356651
>communists are just future conservatives haven't read Sowell yet

>>128364783
>everything would be owned by the collective
>wages could be spent entirely on excess luxury
What did he mean by this?

>>128364948
Social democracy collapses once national debt rises too high.

>>128364783

Then who is paying the wages of the central planning comitee?

And since the committee is entitled to its full wages, is there ANOTHER comittee to keep their lights on?

You are doing a shitty version of the robot argument: robots fix the robots that fix the robots... To infinity.

You literally are not thinking, you are regurgitating information.

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Liquidate the bourgeoisie.

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>>128365032
They'll never acknowledge the real enemy because their entire ideology is Jewish supremacy wrapped in a red banner

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>>128364948
Socialism*

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Keep pretending its not the jews

>>128365253
Committee would be elected body people could vote them out if they started turning corrupt.

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>>128365399
We're on to them.

>>128365463

Fantastic.

BUT WHO PAYS THEM YOU ILLITERATE STOOGE?

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>>128356651

saged

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>>128365438

You just want to supplant the jews not fix the SYSTEMIC problem

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They can't handle the truth.
Its always been jews

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>>128365438
Ofc jews are in high positions under capitalism since meritocratic structures and inherited wealth allow the most intelligent and wealthy to succeed.

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>>128365599
This is a communism themed redpill thread now

>>128358477
Come and take my property, niggle.
From my cold dead hands.

>>128364990
>proto-fascist
>he doesn't even know what fascism is
No wonder you're a communist
https://katana17.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/a-squire_s-trial.pdf

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>>128356651

>>128365705
They are paid the same labor vouchers issued to every working person in society.

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>>128365808
Jews are the systemic problem

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>>128365870

>>128365916
Proto-fascism is not fascism my friend.

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>>128365850
Revolutionary parties under the pretenses of Marxism or democracy never work because their leaders are unjust and their reasoning is flawed.
Hate capitalism for purposes of industrialists' greed and spite-towards-ones-people not because they don't pay you 30 shekels an hour to stack boxes.

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>>128365850
I'll buy that for a dollar commie filth

>>128366207
Read the pdf I posted

>>128366034

No, they are just more efficient running it

>>128365997


BY. FUCKING. WHO?

I don't give a shot how much or what you pay them. WHO IS PAYING THEM?

>>128366341
A bourgeois sympathizer running a communist thread? That's adorable.

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Jews show themselves under any system

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>>128366341
>commie unironically shilling for yids
Like pottery

>>128365997
Labor vouchers = money
Your idea of communism is state capitalism.

>>128365599
You know that Lenin also banned Hebrew as a language and among his first actions as the leader of Russian social demorcatic party they ended dual party power between their party and jewish socialist bund of artisans and farmers of poland and Russia?

>>128365997

How many vouchers are they paid and why? This question applies to every single job, btw.

Also, what can the "buy" with the vouchers? Are all goods and services "priced" in the same amount of vouchers? If not, why?

>>128366670

*what can they "buy"

>>128364783
>There would be no taxes since everything would be owned by the new ruling class
ftfy
Stop pretending that the new elite consisting of party stooges and bureaucrats would be part of the working class.

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>>128366582
Probably cause they didn't want the goyim catching on

>>128364783
Sounds great. Now if someone could actually usher in the utopia and not kill millions of people the the process and estabish a dictatorship.

>>128366550

I got the feeling he was a closet capitalist as well. I'm currently working on him realizing that or claiming that communism is more important than having surgeons or some stupid shit.

>>128366550
Money is general purpose, where as labor vouchers are limited to single person, according to their workload.
>>128366416
The collective or more precisely the elected committee or body in charge of issuing them.

stop replying to this stupid shill thread idiots.

>>128366416
Nobody is "paying" them. Why do they need to be paid, other than your desperate burger need to see people suffer?

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>>128366582
jews show themselves under any system

>>128367146
Genetic fallacy.

>>128366670
Their vouchers are tied to the workload and hours they work.
Excess goods and those goods that are not provided by the commune.
Prices are dependent on the supply of goods.

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>>128356651
>Communism is the next stage of humanity following the capitalist stage.
No, it's not.

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Jews gonna jew

>>128366950

Great. Who pays the comitee?

Are you really not seeing the pattern yet? We can do this all day.

Also, since we now have 3 comitee a per business so far, how can anyone afford anything if everything costs 4x (and rising with every new comittee you invent)? For every one productive person you are paying 4+ Paper-pushers with money that comes from WHERE?

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I will be back bit later, but I really need to take a smoke.

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>>128367221
Intelligence fallacy

>>128367102

Okay, why do they provide their services for free while everyone else gets the fruit of their labor?

Are they slaves? Isn't that another class?

>Tfw the Soviet Union wasn't real Communism but you still use the propaganda to advocate Communism
Stay classy you red idiots.

>>128367521
>paying for
is a meme. Your local bank ISSUES "money" under a fractional reserve system, just the same as the workers councils. It doesn't exist before it is issued.

>>128367576

It's not irreversible at all. Plenty of rabid ex-commits in this thread.

>>128367854
Your reaction formation is cute.

>>128367579

Taking advantage of underpaid workers to get your nicotine fix.

My, how dedicated you are to your cause.

>>128367795

So the solution to capitalism is printing money and giving it to everyone until we need wheelbarrows to buy bread.

Oops, never mind. No bread in the store.

>>128368193

*oops no store

*oops no wheelbarrows

*oops no paper to print money

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>>128367795
So fiat currency that can be traded for commodities? Cool.

>>128367919
I'm not the one playing tag team on a board to shill my ideals. You have it easy, you don't need to use a proxy to post here because you don't get banned for your opinions. On your shitty containment board anyone who says something a specific mod doesn't like gets canned.

We've stolen people from your board because of this. Specifically individuals who come here to raid.
Why do you think there are so many middle-left people like Strasserists and Natbols now on /leftygarbage/?

>>128367294
Do you really not get that someone has to determine the value of work? The guys at the top will obviously not say "oh gee we sit all day in our cozy offices so we only deserve 3 vouchers while the garbageman gets 20 because his work is awful", obviously they will value their own workload higher than that of the masses.
>Prices are dependent on the supply of goods.
Gee I sure hope the guys who manage the supply of goods don't abuse their power to direct all the nice shit to themselves while the masses get bread and water.

>>128367962
It's okay because they're third worlders :3
I don't deserve to be oppressed but everyone else does!
Communism rules!!!

>>128368193
You're trying very hard not to understand this, aren't you. WE ALREADY DO THAT UNDER CAPITALISM. You simply have chosen to give the money to those who already have it rather than those who do the work.
>>128368578
>someone has to determine the value of work
Because you say so? Because you're so cucked to hierarchy and pecking orders that you can't be bothered to drag those niggers out of their office and beat them until they accept the vouchers that other people are willing to allow them?

>>128368578

I love these stupid assholes
>were entitled to the product of our labor!
>someone else should decide how our production is allocated

It's insanity and it is terribly interesting.

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>>128368193
>>128367521

Food,clothing,healthcare,education,housing and other basic necessities of life will be provided by the central planning committee. Only Luxury goods such as food for pets,tobacco,alcohol,coffee and recreational drugs can be brought with labor vouchers.
>>128367962
There is no ethical consumption under capitalism therefor my personal choices of consumption are irrelevant.

>>128368768

No YOU want to give it to people who don't work.

I want people to voluntarily exchange goods and services free of coercion.

You are the bad guy.

As an aside, I'm not defending Americas financial problems, I'm defending capitalism.

You doing the same stupid shit that's ruining capitalism isn't really helping make communism look feasible.

>>128367294

>Their vouchers are tied to the workload and hours they work.

You do realize that some types of work are more valuable than others, right? A crude hypothetical example, some new innovative use of copper was discovered, so in a capitalist society copper miners would start making more money, for the simple fact that copper is now more demanded and thus they can sell it a higher price. Such market signals are easily "transmitted" in a price-based market, but what about your voucher system? Your vouchers seem to be clumsy and barely above a barter economy.

>>128368518
also /leftypol/ is a reading room for liberal traps and I have no use for it.
>>128368193
>Oops, never mind. No bread in the store.
That tends to happen when you stop half-dicked stuporpowers like the US by slapping them down first thing. Had the Koch and Dulles families been completely exterminated by Russian agents, there would have been no Cold War and no outside forces working to sink communism.
Anyway anyone who cares to bake some bread could do so.
>>128369219
No, you don't. You want people to be able to coerce others to perform "profitable" actions in exchange for goods and services.
>muh protestant work ethic
is brain damage. Leave it at the door. You're defending submission to (((parasites))).

>>128369233
Skilled labor is consideration that is undertaken within the workload and overall determining of the value for labor vouchers per individual.

>>128368963
You are an embarrassment to my nation, carry on.

>>128368768
>You simply have chosen to give the money to those who already have it rather than those who do the work.
So take it from bankers and give it to the bourgeois directly is what I'm getting from you.

>Because you're so cucked to hierarchy and pecking orders

But you want a workers council to supply you with vouchers that determine your sustenance based off of their perceived value of your labor.

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>>128356651
REPORTING IN COMRADE!
A SPECTRE IS HAUNTING /POL/

>>128368963

You can stop consuming it you stupid fake commie.

Now we're back to this again:

WHO PAYS FOR ALL THIS BULLSHIT YOU THINK JUST MAGICALLY HAPPENS?

If it's a comitee, AGAIN, who pays them. Then them. Then them. Then them. Then them. Then them. Then them. To infinity.

Allow me to answer it for you : "we tax the people indirectly through wild inflation while the upper class determines production and distribution needs."

You are not a communist, you are a dictator.

>>128368963
>Food,clothing,healthcare,education,housing and other basic necessities of life will be provided by the central planning committee. Only Luxury goods such as food for pets,tobacco,alcohol,coffee and recreational drugs can be brought with labor vouchers.

So you agree with this sentiment and you're against national socialism? How paradoxical your mind seems to be mate.

>>128368768
The Snownigger said so
>Their vouchers are tied to the workload and hours they work.
So someone has to decide that work X deserves Y amount of vouchers for Z amount of hours. The thing is EVERYONE will say their own work is more valuable than the work of other people but this would lead to hyperinflation, so there has to be some kind of central authority that determines the value of all work.

>>128369439
Choose to starve. You are not entitled to anything.

Make a man of yourself.

>>128369529
>>128369529

Okay, but that still has problems. How do you measure skill? Who will measure it? How many vouchers will s/he be paid for the measuring work and why?

Also, skill should not necessarily deserve a higher pay. Using my miner example, there are probably some miners that use an archaic method that requires more skill from the miner to extract the ore, whereas other miners simply use more automated machines that allow them to get more copper for less work.

>>128369738
So far we have determined need only for 2 committees no more or less.
>>128369562
So was my great grandfather who died 1918 for his actions to defend the working class and the party.

>>128369439
Bunkerchan, /leftypol/: same thing.

>the cold war happened because of the Koch and Dulles dynasties
Do you have the full conspiracy theory behind that, I'm genuinely curious why you think that.

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>>128369648

>>128369233
>muh innovation meme
Not an argument. Broken pipe
>>128369572
>So take it from bankers and give it to the bourgeois directly is what I'm getting from you
The bourgeois don't do dick. They sit around and live off rents and dispense their shitty little morality like urine on a fire hydrant.
>But you want a workers council to supply you with vouchers that determine your sustenance based off of their perceived value of your labor.
Please grasp that the workers council IS MADE OF WORKERS. Not a permanent authority, not a stepping stone, not special, not a place to collect rents, just a service that needs to be done not unlike jury duty.
>>128369863
Hours are hours. It makes sense to rotate people through jobs rather than have them become attached to any particular occupation.
>>128369938
Castrate yourself, jewlarper. I'll choose to end your fucking family line before I'll starve on your say so.

>>128370169
>my great grandfather
So that's the only reason you call yourself a communist.

Interesting.

Marxist-Leninism was disproven by Karl Marx, who admitted in his Manifesto, that any nation-state subscribing to Communism would be forced to become hierarchical and authoritarian, in order to survive.

>drops mic

>>128370237
Not the whole one, but.
Fred Koch founded the John J. Birch Society. The Birch Society basically created the Red Scare.
The Dulles brothers founded the CIA and gave it its conniving, degenerate ways.
I think the rest of the smaller players could have been taken out one by one.
>>128370429
Marx isn't Jesus, son. If you need an authority figure, you can get one in the gulag. The rest of us would rather be left alone.

>>128370031
By the qualification and necessary time that education to the profession effectively took.

Skill is not the only factor but work time along side workload will also determine this.

These standards are not quasi permanent either. If community has need for lower skill jobs effective value for the higher jobs labor vouchers value can be lowered or the value for lower skill jobs increased according to need.

>>128370169
Jesus Christ that's your "answer"?

Two comitee a is two more than necessary.

Besides you are just replacing management with a ruling class that has no vested interest in the success of the factory/whatever.

How is an unaccountable and powerful government in control of all business better than open competition?

How is a management team without necessary knowledge superior than the current management?

You are just shuffling capitalism around without changing anything.

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>>128370256
The leaders of the workers councils wouldn't do dick neither you fool
What makes you think replacing the bourgeois with a new crueller one will benefit the workers?
Are you even a worker yourself?

>made of workers
No it fucking isn't it was leaders and these leaders manage. Supposedly listening to the opines of the workers and acting according to necessity. They are most certainly not members of the actual back breaking workers class themselves AND these members of the council control the means of production.
Therefore, they are the bourgeois.

>it's impermanent!!
The transition state's ills translate into the goal's.

Commies yet again assblasted. Just stop making these embarassing threads.

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>>128370256
>Hours are hours.
So the guy working for 8 hours in the coal mines deserves less vouchers than the guy sitting on his ass for 9 hours and signing documents?

>It makes sense to rotate people through jobs rather than have them become attached to any particular occupation.
>be good with electronics
>it's "rotation time"
>have to butcher cows now
>fuck up and cut my hand off
>go to the doctor
>current doctor used to be carpenter
>takes a hammer and a bunch of nails out
So this is the power of communism.

>>128370828

Sorry, I meant improving anything. You have reduced the efficacy of literally everything and added two layers of useless paper pushers.

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>>128370620
And you think the Red Scare is why the USSR and the USA butted heads?
Not because of the USSR's expansionist/internationalist policies?
Do you think the KGB wasn't conniving and degenerate?

>>128370353
I don`t call myself an communist for the reason that I`m running for political office again in 7 months and its far more easier to be social democrat publicly rather than "member of the loony left". Only a small inner circle within the party and among my friends knows of my Marxist background.

>>128370849
>The leaders of the workers councils wouldn't do dick neither you fool
That's why you rotate people through them rather than allow them to solidify their relationships to the class.
>No it fucking isn't it was leaders and these leaders manage
>isn't
>was
Stop living in the past, Walter. How it was done and how it will be done are two separate matters entirely.
>The transition state's ills translate into the goal's.
>apostrophes
Broken pipe

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>>128371071
>social democrat
>being a full marxist
There's still hope for you mate, there's always a need for autists.

>>128371071

Oh, it's a NEET lies on the internet episode!

How tall are you? How big is your dick?

>>128371071
>I`m running for political office again
Doesn't strike me as odd, really, people dumb as bricks usually get elected, you might stand a chance.

>>128369795
Social democracy that NatSocs provide can only function limited since things like capital flight and national debt effectively limit their ability to upkeep their socialist progamme.

>>128371033
>USSR annexing Baltics and pieces of Poland and Romania is totally the same as Operation Condor
>USA and UK supported fucking Pakistan
>USSR was stuck defending the largest democracy in the world

>>128370773

In essence, you want to have a small, privileged committee do the work that market forces already do, and without such committee.

What a fucking stupid idea.

>>128370256
>Not an argument. Broken pipe

It's an argument. Pipe is fixed.

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>>128371189
>that's why you rotate people rather than allow them to solidify their relationships to the class.
Rotate them where? Do a different council? To a different position?
The only way I can see that working is rotating a leader to a work detail and a worker to a leadership detail. But then that begs the questions of, "who enforces this transfer and who decides who leads?"

>stop living in the past, Walter. How it was done and how it will be done are two separate matters entirely.

From the sound of it you want to reattempt what was already attempted with slight differences in flavor and location.

>misuse of apostrophes
Oh no I mistyped something because I'm tired shit dude /pol/ BTFO
If you have to nitpick my grammar, intentionally erroneous or not (in this case unintentional) then your argument must be failing on your side of the wire.
Also who the fuck is Walter or is that a Roger-Wilco type of saying?

>>128370990
He's getting health care. He's presumably getting decent safety equipment and a safe workplace (and if he isn't he needs to put his pickaxe into some heads). I think you would find that working conditions would improve somewhat.
>be good with electronics
obvs you're not going to rotate people into positions they're not qualified for. I can think of no reason you wouldn't be qualified for general labor or warehousing.
>>128371033
>And you think the Red Scare is why the USSR and the USA butted heads?
Absolutely. Americans were seeing the material benefits of socialism, more on Stalin in a sec. They had living memory of just how badly people were screwed over by the Great Depression, caused entirely by capitalists playing silly games. Wallace was robbed.
>Not because of the USSR's expansionist/internationalist policies?
And burgers think they have any moral ground to stand on? I'm sure the KGB was.
I won't even defend Stalin. He was a nasty one and, like most presidents, makes a great case for a non-presidential government.

Reminder. Communism is made by the kikes in order to destroy the white race and the cultures of the white race. It's nothing more than tool that sweet talks but is sprinkled with death and misery. People that know communism are against communism.

Commies always did everything wrong.

>>128371501
Well I did not get elected(despite getting second most votes within the party), I`m 1cm shorter than national average and my dick is also under the national average.

Also I`m not a NEET but a student starting in the autumn since my work contract ended 4 months ago.

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>>128372441

>>128372020
For a start, rotate them through their workers' council, just like my example of jury duty.
>leader
There's your problem, burger. You've never lived a life without being led around by the nose.
>But then that begs the questions of, "who enforces this transfer and who decides who leads?"
The workers who allow the council to represent them, perhaps, and who can be fired at any time on a no-confidence vote.
>From the sound of it you want to reattempt what was already attempted with slight differences in flavor and location
I don't hear you bitching even a little about the Founding Fathers, who were doing just that.
>>128372665
>who were the tankies

>>128372289
Who gets to decide who is qualified for what job and who isn't? What if I think that I'd make a really really good "economic Overseer", just waltz into the city hall and tell the current dude who manages the economy to fuck off and let me take his job? What if he doesn't want to, just "put a pickaxe into his head"?

>>128372665
So what? The every intent of the kikes is to destroy anything white. That's why they want it globally.

Also reminder, the people that scream for communism are the first ones to be killed of because they know to much. This always happens.

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White Volk cooperate on a voluntary basis
Not at the flick of an ugly kikes finger.

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>>128372665

>>128371578
Capital flight was countered by three major things:
-appropriation of traitors' wealth when possible
-internal industry
-exports (in exchange for commodities and resources not found in country)

National debt for the most part was because of the war. USS had 66 (U.S. dollars) billion worth
in 1991. Can't find any data immediately about their debts in the 30s-50s other than they waved the Tsar's debts after the revolution.
Also keep in mind the lend lease.

>>128372862
Heil
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4obeqaxhRs

>>128372819
Your future coworkers, perhaps informed by your school performance.
If you were to make such a self-interested assertion, you'd be told to wait your damned turn, if not laughed right out of the council.

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>>128372911
>people that actually LIVED through communism approve of capitalism and parliamentary democracy less
Really makes you think

>>128373188
IT'S ALMOST AS IF COMMUNISM IS REALLY FUCKING SHIT

Also commieniggers, check out Venezuela you dumb fuck. And don't n-not real g-gomminisms me.

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>>128370256
>>128370990
>>128371889
>>128372020
Is there a single one pf these threads were commies get neither BTFO or ignored?

Can commies manage to hold a single case for more than 3 posts?

>>128373316
>IT'S ALMOST AS IF COMMUNISM IS REALLY FUCKING SHIT
Wouldn't they approve of it more?

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>>128372822

>>128373027
The modern capital unfortunately for all of us has much higher success rate in avoiding taxation via tax paradises and due to centralization of this capital into fewer investors in addition to capital being far more mobile.

>>128372289
>material benefits
Gibsmedat behavior, that's why you're destined to be a slave. You can easily change that but it'll require a change of heart in terms of empty luxury.

>And burgers think they have any moral ground to stand on?
Two empires butting heads.


It's foolish to believe the people of this country would have been swayed that much by a promise of wealth given the mockery the Soviets conveyed.
However in regards to people seeing the benefits of socialism due to a foreign state:
The national socialist movement in the U.S. was robust for a reason, before the war of course.

>>128373486
>Gibsmedat behavior
>You can easily change that but it'll require a change of heart in terms of empty luxury.
Prosperity gospel is not an argument. Your covetous heart is also not an argument. I merely want enough.
>The national socialist movement in the U.S. was robust for a reason, before the war of course.
Of course. The industrialists loved that shit and were willing to spend half their money to save the other half.

>>128356651
Hi dumbasses, socialism needs to fuck off, get the fuck out.

I counter every aspect of your overwhelming idiocy, below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3aeDQwOSSs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrzKDKPvg4Y

4chan should completely ban socialist shit.

>>128373323
free market communism is actually a thing tho, google mutualism

I mean if you are going to shitpost at least know a thing or two before

dumb macaco

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>>128373426
You know those that those that approved of it where the rich fucks you people claim to hate. The never had to worry about anything at all.

>>128372802
>rotate them through the workers' council
Same corruption different location.

>There's your problem, burger. You've never lived a life without being led around by the nose.

Nice admitting you've been proxying the whole thread.
Workers' councils are led, there are bosses in the councils. It's republican in nature, and being able to fire them doesn't make it any less so.

>I don't hear you bitching even a little about the Founding Fathers, who were doing just that.
They were all vying for different systems and platforms. There wasn't a cohesiveness other than
>we need something

The U.S. could just as easily have been the United Kingdom of America.

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>>128373051
Hail my brother soon we rise. Soon we will fight.... and we will win.

>>128373717
Under capitalism they still got nothing to worry about, though.

>>128373708
"Free market communism" are you mentally fucking challenged? This is a fucking failure incarnate.

>>128373679
>I merely want enough.
There's never enough.

>The industrialists loved that shit and were willing to spend half their money to save the other half.
Conflating national socialism with capitalist pigs is yet another /leftypol//Bunkerchan thing I despise. It's very short sighted and built off of fallacy.
Would you mind posting the conspiracy theory behind the
>national socialism isn't REAL socialism!!!
you possess please?

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>>128373699
Why? Its not like these threads actually change anyone`s minds, since most people seem to be already ideologically locked to their positions without any kind of synthesis of ideology being born.

>>128373953
Are you? I mean its pretty fucking basic stuff really, you learn about different economic models and theories in economics 1

its basically cooperative firms instead of hierarchical ones, they do exist

>>128374102
There are plenty of lurkers that don't post.

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This is what rule under kike is

>>128373852
We will. Commies only can win when funded and fueled by countries that do work for a living.

>>128373717
Neither did the rich fucks under communism. While the poorer people got killed and shit taken away forcefully rich fucks such as any commie you like to suck of just laugh and stuffed their bellies full. To them it was a theater show, to the people themselfs it was pure hell. Read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Pests_Campaign

That's how fucking stupid commies are.

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>>128373475
Every revolution will encounter this dilemma. At least in national socialism instead of mulling about it there's progress to make despite.
If the traitors flee in time with their pickings then we will persevere and build.

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>>128374013

>>128374247
Pure autism and rage will keep them away.

>>128373173
>Your future coworkers, perhaps informed by your school performance.
So how do you get into higher government/economic positions? If future coworkers, in this case party stooges, bureaucrats or "factory managers", get to decide if someone gets to work with them or not, then wouldn't they prefer to pick people from their lower ranks and/or families/friends? If school performance determines this, then doesn't this whole rotation idea only affect the uneducated masses who only do simple shit jobs?

>>128373708
>free market communism

The more I see this dumb shit, the more I understand the purpose of those helicopter rides

I am going to sleep. Kill every commie you can find. They are brewing in my country too and they all don't work, look like weak shit and leech of the government or their parents. All of them use non-arguments and shotgun to other shit. It's all about me me me and their little feelings.

Communism is a mental disorder.

>>128374601
Night-night, tax haven.

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>>128374398
Oh well soon you will get tired and then you can go be a communist someplace else.

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3RD WORLD POSTERS GET OUT
YOUR IDEAS ARE IRRELEVANT, YOU HOLD NO REVOLUTIONARY POTENTIAL SO FUCK OFF.

>>128374518
see >>128374141

>>128374739
You'd get one punch to the fucking arm and you'd break it you kike. Fuck you you meek and weak piece of shit. Even most third world countries aint as retarded as a typical commie faggot.

>>128373849
>Same corruption different location.
I don't see how. As long as the same people aren't always on one end or the other of that corruption, I don't really see where the problem is.
>Workers' councils are led
Really? By whom, and in what capacity more than figurehead?
>It's republican in nature, and being able to fire them doesn't make it any less so.
Indeed, it does. It prevents the worst excesses of the republican form from materializing when the "right" to represent can be withdrawn by a simple vote of those represented and in any case cannot be leveraged into muh bigger and better things.
>>128374098
>There's never enough.
Prove it. There is always enough. It is merely maldistributed. You seem to be working from faith, not fact. If you still had your whole dick you'd know what enough is.
>Conflating national socialism with capitalist pigs
So tell me how Henry Ford's support of national socialism, which is not even fucking socialist in any substantive fashion, is a fallacy.
>conspiracy theory
Oh you're from CTR. Never mind, then. Broken pipe

>>128374141
Coming from an utter imbecile who doesn't even understand the nomenclature they are spewing out of their dumb fucking mouth.

Listen, retard, I will keep this simple: Communism, collectivism, socialism - DO - NOT - FUCKING - WORK.

"buut muh democratic socialism... " "muh free market communism (LOL)". This is fully retarded and you are an imbecile for not thinking this through.

How the FUCK do you fucking suppose people will be organized into a collective worthy of being called communism, without control by the state, which goes fully against what a free market actually is, you UTTER FUCKING MORON.

KILL YOURSELF, AND NEVER HAVE CHILDREN. IF YOU HAVE HAD THEM, KILL THEM AND SPARE US MORE MORONS PROLIFERATING.

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I'm starting to believe that a Socialist economy is the only way to save the West.

It's quite clear that at the threat of capital gain the bourgeoisie will never come into compliance with the national idea and would be complete reactionaries. Night of Long Knives must occur on bankers and kikes alike.

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>>128374739
This is exactly the reason why communism will always fail.
Shed your disdain and mortal coil and wake the fuck up Finnish man.
Your great grandfather had no idea there was something better, he did not die in vain though his mistaken stumble into part of the truth led him there.

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>>128356651
Reddit posters are not welcome here. Go back to your little shithole.

>>128374990
Yell louder, loyalist scum. It'll make your blather all that much more true.
>3 posts by this id
>leddit spacing
Please neck yourself.

>>128375140
And by fail I mean not thinking third worlders have anything to do with revolution or nation nor have an importance in the world.

You post here every day nigger and it won't save you from the day of the rope.

Communism has no soul because the kike made it. Communism is against nature because the kike made. Communism will destroy purity because the kike made it.

>>128374909
>close arms combat
>current year

Yeah no. I passed trough of my mandatory military service without any problems, so I doubt I lack in that department.
Can`t say the same for you since your country dosen`t even have mandatory service.

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>>128374990
>being triggered this hard
BWAHAHAHAAA

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>>128374990
>- DO - NOT - FUCKING - WORK.

weird, I just gave consultory to a cooperative firm that works very similar to a firm under mutalism

all you need to do is google mutalism, you might be too retaded to understand the difference between a cooperative firm and a hierarchical one, but you at least tried

>>128375348
>passed trough of my mandatory military service without any problems

We all know you didn't.

>Can`t say the same for you since your country dosen`t even have mandatory service.
>b-but ur country
Who says I didn't move from another country you dumb ass.

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>>128375296

>>128373173
Seem to have this endless list of imaginary rules somewhere in your head. Everything you say sort of implies some sort of under lying order that must be followed otherwise the system will work.

Rules imply a ruler otherwise they're not going to be followed you need to have someone who's who's creating the rules and and someone who's enforcing the rules, without these two things you have no reason to assume that people will follow your rules.

With these two things you no longer have a*classless society and therefore no longer have communism. Along with everything else you've implied throughout this thread you just have made some really strange form of state capitalism.

I think he may just be tremendously misguided and for going about this all wrong. What does communism mean to you?

>>128375639
>needing the ebil capitalist and hard workers to even have tools in the first place
That's how much of a cuck thing communism is.

>>128375061
Yea sure fuckwit, let's add more socialism (because it hasn't been tried and failed obviously numerous times already). This is like having an heroin overdose, and deciding to take more heroin to try to cure it.

Use your fucking critical thinking skills. The west has been entertaining partial socialist economies (increased government control, direction, tarrifs, intervention etc) for the last 90 years or more. It has been, in short, a disaster.

The very elementary basics of the problems intrinsic in the effects which state intervention has in the economy, are here. This is leaving alone the fact that socialism inevitably results in the destruction of individual personal liberties, which are as (if not more) important than a prosperous economy as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3aeDQwOSSs

this thread is cancer holy shit kys

How would communists deal with Muslims?

>>128375970
They'd burn them. Happened before.

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>>128375554
85% of finnish males serve in the military, I would have to be statistical exception not even have ability to do that.
So you`re an immigrant yourself then? Why don`t you fuck off to the underdeveloped shithole where originated form then?
>>128375140
>>128375272
I don`t hate them for their lack of ability but their basic lack of intelligence and understanding of some basic Marxist concepts such as that revolution can only spark with any real success in economically developed late-capitalism countries. Their arrogance and lack of loyalty towards their comrades in their usual anarchist ways seems stunning.

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>>128373323
wouldn't free market communism just be redistributing wealth through taxes? like, robin hood economics?

>>128375380
It's more that >>128374990 is a member of the bourgeoisie whose social capital and identity are most likely to be rendered irrelevant under a socialist system.
>>128375723
The unwritten rule is half written: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Unwritten: "if you were in their position."
If you have no empathy, there's not much that can be done for you.
Societies regulate themselves just fine, given the tools to do so.
If you're some fucking liberal that insists upon a completely worked solution and complete last chapter before accepting the concept of an alternative social and economic organization, you're not going to be satisfied with anything and are just a ledditposting obstacle.
>>128375970
Do they jew? If so, gulag. If not, work alongside them. I fail to see where the problem is.

>>128375818
>socialism is when the government does stuff
>caring about 18th century radical individualism

Calm down, racist liberal.

>>128357754
Communism has been dead since the cold war ended. Even shitholes likes Cuba are becoming more capitalist everyday as we assimilate into the worldwide capitalist order.

Communism is the biggest example of being absolutely BTFO. Communists said they were the next step in human evolution, that time was meant to elect them as the successor to capitalism, that the world was on rails to be slavery-feudalism-capitalism-socialism-communism. And then they got BTFO and now all communist nations aren't even striving for the goal of a stateless classless society but to join the global capitalist order LMFAO. Is there a bigger BTFOing in history?

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>>128356651
Start a business and share the ownership faggot

>>128376226
It still doesn't prove you actually where worth fucking shit you nigger.

>Why don`t you fuck off to the underdeveloped shithole where originated form then?
>h-he m-must b-be f-from shithole
Quite the opposite.

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>>128374956
>I don't see how.
Okay mind experiment. Take a cruel corrupt bourgeois factory owner and put him at the head of a different factory or company.

>Really? By whom, and in what capacity more than figurehead?
The council representatives/delegates
They decide the overall breakup of labor and needs.
Circa
https://www.marxists.org/archive/pannekoe/1947/workers-councils.htm#h10

>it is merely mal-distributed
Okay describe enough then.

>calling me pious and small dicked
KEK

>Henry Ford
I hate to use Wikipedia but:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Ford#The_coming_of_World_War_II_and_Ford.27s_mental_collapse

He clawed his way to where he was, and didn't like the looks of people who inherited it all. He was about as anti-capitalist as any industrial could be at the time despite being a very successful one.
Ford was a strange fellow.
And if the idea of being murdered didn't phase him and Natsoc wasn't around he'd probably have sent gifts to Stalin instead.
>which is not even fucking socialist in any substantive fashion, is a fallacy.
I asked you to prove that but you haven't. Please do so before I turn you into a national socialist :^)

>ur CTR
I always knew it was /leftypol/ doing that.
I was wondering where the sporadic
>UR SHILL
posting came from.
Lovely because if actual shills show up there might be actual confusion.

>>128375380
HEY MORON, THAT'S NOT SOCIALISM OR COMMUNISM, IT'S CAPITALISM, OR AKIN TO AN LLP, FUCKSHIT.

The moron Proudhon who profligated this bullshit is clearly a socialist and full of shit.

I can pick a random line from a goddamn fucking wiki article on this shit, which itself, would create numerous problems you cannot solve except via coercion (by whome, who is to be the arbiter here?)

"However, they argue for conditional titles to land, whose ownership is legitimate only so long as it remains in use or occupation (which Proudhon called "possession");[5] thus advocating personal property, but not private property."

You are so completely moronic I will save you the embarrassment of explaining this further.

>>128367631
>implying ussr didn't kill jews
wow, state atheism so jewish, i bet hitler was jewish to and totally not a roman catholic. the nazis must be jews too. the viet cong? total jews from china.

>>128374956
The workers themselves are led in the form of budget constraints. The councils are what provide them with their means to produce and therefore have ultimate control over them.


This is a hierarchical structure where those with power wielding it without oversight nor vested interest.

How is that better than a management team operating within the company itself and compensated commiserate to the performance of the company? With a vested interest in the success of his workers in a more focused perspective on how to accomplish the company's goals certainly would seen improvement over mere bureaucrats disconnected from the workers entirely.

>>128367631
The holocaust is a lie and commies killed 40 million of their own fucking people that just lived life, until the jews that fucked up Germany big time.

>>128376647
See how a typical kike "argues".

holy shit i left for a month and this guy is still there

>>128376869
until = unlike*

>>128376386
Are you really this fucking stupid?

How the fuck do you morons suppose that, as if by magic surely, all these resources are to be redistributed, these property rights thrown away, prices and quotas set, without some form of government planning authority with the teeth to cause effect to its plans?

Lmao, you really are retarded. Socialism is intrinsically 'when the government does stuff'.

>>128376274
Says a 'useful idiot'. Enjoy being shot in a dark basement with your family without trial, Mr Alexander.

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>>128376226
>National Socialists
>anarchists

>Marxist concepts
The revolution isn't just a Marxist thing.
The fascist Organic State is fully revolutionary and continuously revolves.

Here read this:
https://katana17.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/a-squire_s-trial.pdf

There are also autistic faggots at a forum called Ironmarch you can ask about it, or read rather.

If you take the best from Marx's philosophy and the best from Fascist philosophy you then have a system that works rather well.

>>128374990
Hey buddy I hate, Commiesjust as much as you but it's post similar to yours from the left that made me turn right in the first place.

It's just repulsive rhetoric I don't care if he used that language or something but make a concise point in the process. All you did was attack his character rather than his position, his position is so weak there's no way he could be more pathetic himself as a person.

Make an argument not attack. That retard will probably die in a cock sucking accident before long, unfortunately the common meme will never die and need to fight it rather than its puppets

>>128376601
>that is not socialism
>the mororn who profligated this bullshit was a spocialist

so which is it?

besides, I explained that cooperative firms work in similar ways, do not follow Proudhin's textt word by word

holy shit, stop being stupid

Again, are you going to deny the existance of cooperative firms?

>>128376869
>The holocaust is a lie
jee for denying the holocaust it sure sounds like it's something you wanted to have happened.

>See how a typical kike "argues"
yet you're exactly like them. racist and delusional.
>muh heritage
>muh imaginary friend in the sky
>muh religious "freedom" to kill anyone that thinks my imaginary friend is fake