Basic Income

>>128236433
niggers

Yea....I'm not giving all my money up in tax so some lazy cunt can sit and do fuck all

theres not. with technology

we already have welfare

>>128236542
so what if they live in slums and starve to death?

>>128236433
>he wants super-ultra-giga-hyperinflation for his economy

>>128236433
>>128236542
Fpbp.
A large portion of society will not work, and there will be no "drive to survive" for the working class. Things will turn shitty after a few years.

capitalism is a jewish trick btw

>>128236433
He who giveth also taketh away

>>128236433
>before basic income: being productive to society
>after basic income: degenerate wasteful hedonism

sounds about right

Yes, because I'm going to go be a trash man to meet people and improve myself

>>128236433

"I want others to work to support me while I focus on recreation"

The premise relies on the idea that universal basic income won't be used in the same way as welfare to consolidate political control over increasingly dependent people.

It's why socialism is garbage; never put all your eggs in one basket.

>>128236433
>be such a leech that you decide its time to convince everyone they need to stoop to your level of laziness
>not realizing you are an uninspiring loser who is sadistic

basic income is like communism. There will be no incentive to work harder if everybody can just slum it out

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How does the jew benefit from basic income? Its not like he doesnt already control almost everything.

>>128236433
the flaws are as follows:
1- you can make money while enjoying yourself/being sociable/helping community/etc.

2- money doesn't come out of fucking thin air. It's exchanged for labor.

3- I can't think of ANYTHING I'd rather do less than give modern artists free money.

>>128236433
Idle people cause major problems in society. You can't allow a population to just mill around. They will self-destruct.

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>>128236433

>>128237093
Why is it good to work harder for its own sake?

>>128236433
None of the reasons in the "after" picture will actually compel people to leave the house.

Also, the money for "basic income" will come out of my check. As such, if you don't want to work to live, I'd rather you just die.

>>128236542
This

Replace all labels on the right with "Chimp out and commit crime"

Then you see an issue

After robotics, automation, and artificial intelligence take off enough and replace the majority of labor, universal income will become a necessity to stabilize society. Sure it will devolve into a hedonistic lazy sex-drug fest, but honestly who cares? I'd love to spend my time reading, learning, exercising, spending time with friends, cooking good food, and fucking.

>>128236433
>Reasons for the government not to exterminate you:

(((((((((help community)))))))))

>>128237449
you'll be dead before that happens.

>>128236645
They are niggers, the won't starve.
They can eat each other.

>>128237271
C'mon you conservalarpers. You've got to come up with a better reason than crickets.
>>128237553
If so, not of natural causes.

>>128236433
Countless people will stop working.

They'll find self improvement, enjoyment, ways to meet people, and ways to help their community without working.

This will lead to an economic collapse because the people working will be destroyed by the dead weight.

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>>128236433
It's been proven time after time after time throughout history that struggle is what makes humans thrive to be greater. You cannot understand happiness if you cannot contrast it with tough times.

Why do you think modern societies around the world have such high rate of depression and the simpler ones do not?

Find a simple job, try to be the best at it (and I don't mean retail, try some STEM work where you can use your brain to solve problems and/or apply your skills to something concrete), you'll be much more happier than being on welfare.

basic income is absolutely retarded. although I think the government should provide free housing, utilities and food if they're gonna fucking take income from me.

>>128237852
no, of natural causes. by the time we become a post-scarcity society (if that's even possible, which i doubt it is) you will be long, long, long, long dead.

>>128236433
I don't work because working for enjoyment and meeting people is a meme
I would rather improve myself fapping to trap porn and reading /pol/
and why would I want to help a community that welcomes refugees and blames all their problems on the whitey

>>128236645
>starve to death
>basic income

>>128236433
Work is a terrible way to fulfill those needs. There's still a lot of shit jobs that need doing. And there will be for a while. But having all basic physical needs met in addition to notbeing able to get a wife because the top 10% of men are hogging the all is going to put a damper on those things getting done.

>>128237271
Because no one is incentivized to self-improve in this case. Look at Norway's lack of doctors due to them making hardly more than an average job.

>>128237106
Basic income allows him to have complete an utter control over the lives of everyone. I assume you know how the welfare state allows the control of low income minorities? Imagine if the welfare state was expanded to give everyone an income, and in doing so allowed those in control of it to expand their influence under the guise of helping. Suddenly, with the reduction of non-basic income wages, they have hundreds of millions of people who now rely on them and their money for survival.

Not hard to put together. The real question is when businesses inevitably collapse under the tax strain of the system, where will the jews get the money from?

>>128236433
The right side you forgot drugs and employment shouldn't be there

It de-incentivizes everyone. But then.. that's the whole plan.

Go away, communist.

>>128236433
If you give excess oxygen to a patient, their breathing slows down. If you give them a large excess of oxygen, they'll fucking stop breathing because the brain will go "yeah you've got enough oxygen, no need to breathe anymore".

It's quite similar, just replace oxygen with money and breathe with work.

>>128237106
>Give you just enough to live
>Literally a subservient gentile, living off the tit of the (((system))).

>>128236542
Literally this actually.

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>>128236433
kill yourself commie

>>128238616
>self-improve
And why the fuck should I improve when I'm good enough as it is and I don't see any direct profit from that improvement?
>Norway's lack of doctors due to them making hardly more than an average job
They also don't have student loans to pay off. Of course they're going to come to countries where they can free-ride off of educational debts.
Fucking burger libtards pretending that everything that gets in the way of the point of their argument doesn't exist.

>>128239064
Then you work when you need to, as people did before the industrial revolution enslaved everyone to muh market.
>>128239185
You're literally claiming that the only thing keeping you from muh moral duhgeneracy is that you have to do stupid human tricks for your lord. Worse, you think that makes you superior.
Is it fun being that cucked?

>>128236433
The flaw is I'm not a child anymore and realize that money isn't a magical creator of stuff that comes from the ether. All that would happen is prices will go up and UBI will become the new zero. Thus, you are reliant on your (((overlords))) to perpetually increase the UBI.

>>128238026
You clearly have done no research on this subject.

Scientists are already predicting 2040 as the date when complete automation and the technological singularity will occur.

>>128239620
yes, just like fusion power is perpetually 25 years away

>>128236433
simplistic feelgood bullshit from dumbshit suburbanites who didn't even know what UBI was until they saw it on facebook and thus have prevented no concrete solutions and ideas regarding implementation and management

>>128236433

isn't welfare already sorta like basic income?

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>>128239620
>muh scientists said stuff and pulled a random date out of their ass
We've had the technology to automate most jobs since the early 1900s. It's almost as if humans have non-mechanical inherent value that can't be replicated and people generally prefer dealing with actual humans.. Really makes you think.

>>128236598
>sitting in his parent's basement shitposting pol 24/7

>>128239935
>X hasn't been done
>thus X can't be done
fucking plebs man.

Also considering we can barely automate something as simple as driving you're talking out your ass.

>>128236433
Panda porn
In the absence of any dangers or motivation animals just forget to do anything and fail even to preserve their own species

>>128236433
UBI essentially turns humanity into a species of domesticated house pets. Read Industrial Society and its Future

>>128239794
Their retarded argument is it would allow us to remove welfare and all of the waste associated with it. It's a retarded argument because they have a retard-level understanding of economics and don't realize that the UBI would become the new zero, thus people would still need welfare and will have to work to offset the ever-increasing prices. There would also be waste and fraud among the (((bureaucrats))) who would manage it all and who will be trading higher UBI for votes.

>>128236433
>Never have to work a day in you life ever again you're told
>Your income makes you live as a depressed neet as people with slightly higher education or even just a average job live in better neighborhoods and houses while you're stuck in some UBI slum
>Majority of people will have the boredom, freetime, and no real penalty for breaking the law to resort to drugs and crime to make more money. Muggings and home invasion would be common
>No money to improve area and no point in improve self as there is zero inventive as you will always get paid the same on the system
>If it ever fails, you have possible millions that have never worked and don't have any skills
>Wasting billions or even trillions on dumbasses that do nothing all day but fuck, get drunk, and live in a dump

>>128239935

You're a complete Luddite.

It doesn't even matter if what you're saying is true, a technological singularity is just that: a singularity. It will happen whether we want it to or not. It's outside of our heads and nothing we can do can slow down the process. For god's sake we're communicating on the very thing I'm talking about and it doesn't stop here you moron.

>the government being able to shut off everyone's income

What could go wrong?

>>128240336
Who the fuck ever said that?
There's a difference between not needing to work ever, and having enough of a cushion to tell the boss to fuck off when he starts getting greedy.

>>128240101
Just about all low-skilled jobs could have been automated decades ago. The fact is, people PREFER other humans cook their food. People PREFER customer support from a human. People PREFER human creativity. Companies PREFER dealing with self-sustaining, independently thinking humans. In other words, humans have jobs because there's a demand for humans to have jobs. You're assuming that that demand will magically end one day. People will wake up and decide that they no longer identify with their own species and would prefer dealing with robots.

The fact is, you're a bunch of lazy faggots who put zero thought into these topics and just imagine yourself sitting at home playing video games as money magically pours in to support your lazy ass. Capitalism + gibs.

>>128240531
>and having enough of a cushion to tell the boss to fuck off when he starts getting greedy.
where are you acquiring the money for this? if you pull money out of the pockets of people to pay for the living expenses of niggers, someone will be deprived of their safety cushion eventually.

>>128240452
>a technological singularity is just that: a singularity. It will happen whether we want it to or not.
are you going to pull a misinterpreted version of the historical rate of decreases in transistor size out of your arse next?

>For god's sake we're communicating on the very thing I'm talking about and it doesn't stop here you moron.
you have absolutely no fucking idea how shoddy the internet is. you're just insulated from it via multiple layers of abstraction. using the internet as an example of "automation" is retarded.

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>>128236433
Fixed.

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>>128236433
As a very wealthy person who has never and will never have to work in their life, I feel that Universal Basic Income will be the doom of civilization.

If everyone was able to do what I did, nothing would get done and everything would suck.

>>128240882
Not an argument.
>>128240907
Just because you can't smoke weed every day and hold down a job doesn't mean that other people can't or don't. Stop projecting your utter lack of a moral center onto others just because YOU need a nanny state.

>>128240452
Are you retarded? We're communicating via code written entirely by humans, sent via infrastructure created and managed by humans. What you faggots haven't considered is whether or not THERE IS A DEMAND for humans to create the Borg that will wipe out our entire species. This isn't a fucking movie.

>>128236433
>human reasons to work
None at all.

Firstly giving money to people without asking them to work will lead 80% (source: my ass) of them to stay home and do jack shit for 20 years straight. We're lazy creatures, the strength and weakness of mankind.


Secondly look at the words: Universal Basic Income.
Basic. Basic.
How would you define your basic standard of living, does it includes a bed and a pillow, an internet connection are you joking ?
Now what do you think the people in charge of distributing this income would define your basic standard of living. Enjoy your nutriment goo and dirty concrete floor, stare at your three walls and one way mirror.

Thirdly, absolute control. Right now you're earning your money (fairly or not).
With basic income your money is generously given to you by your government so be a good citizen, don't talk back, do what you're told and maybe you get to keep your UBI if we like you. Also we decide if you're allowed to work or it's gone with your income.
If you see nothing dangerous with surrendering your income to the whims of someone else, a known pathological liar at that then may god help your soul.

That all seem so bad nobody would do that right ? Nobody would lower themselves to such a living.
Yes. Most would (source: i'm a seer).
They could work to elevate themselves but they won't. They're already not doing that today when they have the chance so they won't do it tomorrow but the thing is right now these lesser humans produce, they have a use and if you thrust UBI on them they'll stop everything and devolve into the maggots they are. Maggots all over your beautiful utopia, sucking up YOUR hard work that you perform so willingly. Are you okay with that? Because that seems absolutely disgusting to me and i don't want it. Better just get rid of them, they're useless anyway.
Good job now you've killed 80% of the population like a soulless maniac.

Show your true face, fake philanthropist. Why do you want UBI so much ?

>>128241032
>civilization
>your ability to make other people live your life for you
Day of the rope will come soon enough for you, leech.

>>128241032
I want to work but no wants to hire me so I might as well get paid for doing nothing to prevent me from becoming a criminal because a maximum security prisoner in Canada costs $150,000 a year but a person on welfare only costs about $7,200/year.

it's all about cost efficiency.

>>128241124
Sto pprojecting your laziness onto others. Have we forgotten that the algorithm which allows us to exchange https keys between computers was designed by a mathematician while house-sitting?

>>128241170
>from becoming a criminal because a maximum security prisoner in Canada costs $150,000 a year but a person on welfare only costs about $7,200/year.

>it's all about cost efficiency.


What about a person on welfare that gets in trouble with the law and is sent to prison because he wanted more cash and didn't know how and blew all his money on retarded shit?

>>128236433

Capitalism 2.0.

>>128236433
Usury it's the same.

>>128241095
yes, it is an argument. where are you getting the money for this? are you going to tax everyone? if you are, paying UBI to people just to take it away in taxes is not going to fly. so where does the money come from? the rich people?

>>128241213
>Have we forgotten that the algorithm which allows us to exchange https keys between computers was designed by a mathematician while house-sitting?
name the fucking algorithm.

>>128236433
1) Money derives its value from representation of resources. In order to sustain high values, productivity must be high. However basic income decouples work for reward. All of the lazy fucks will be paid to laze around while the hard working people will be forced to pay for it all. This will over time convince the hardworking people that the work just isn't worth it and your stupid commie system collapses. The only other way to get people to work is extremely authoritarian.Working with some level of choice and free will is far nicer system to live in.

2) It ignores underlying issues with poverty. There are people who are in poverty that will never leave no matter how much money you throw at them until the underlying issue is solved. It could be addiction, disability or mental health. If you gave a homeless drug addict one million dollars they would be homeless again within a year. If you don't fix a problem at its source you are just wasting everyone's money.

>>128237186
lol, this

>>128236433
Basic income is an ultimate tether to the state. If youre 100% dependent on the government to survive then youll let them get away with anything.

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>society will become a utopia when EVERYBODY is a neet!

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>>128236433

>>128241213
You should read my shitty post. Some people will definitely work, a few select ones. The most motivated ones and the ones who get a head start. All the others, they won't.
I know people who live their life on 80euros a month and their life is hell and they keep doing it, they're mentally trapped in poverty. Humans are smart and they're really fucking dumb at the same time.
The point i made is you will work because you're such a good person but the majority won't and they will rot your society from the inside.

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>>128241095
>where are you getting the money for this
Money is not a store of value. That "muh money" comes from productivity gains which rightly belong to all of society. If you're going to put people out of work, you're going to pay for the privilege.
>>128241439
Whitfield Diffie was house-sitting for a friend when he got the idea for cryptographic information exchange without an initial shared secret. Thence Diffie-Hellman key exchange.
Why haven't you Pic related yet?

Thats pretty simple, actually: Equality of effort.

As long as automation dont perform EVERY SINGLE human job, someone is making more effort than another person, and is yet recieving "less per hour worked" than one who dont work.

Therefore the man who worked more needs to receive more, which causes imbalance in the prices, inflation, and mix stuff up.

The day machines do perform everything, though, there will be 2 outcomes:
A) The machine singulary revolts against us and kill us all.
B) Humanity achieved a utopic state where no one has to work and everyone have everything they want

But of fucking course this days wont arrive, at least not this millennia.

>>128236433
>Before
>Life
>Luxury
>Community

>After
>My neighbors will fucking lynch me if I don't

>>128236433
I'd be on board with this only if welfare is given a hard cap equal to half the time the person applying has worked and is 75% of the UBI.

The other reasons to work don't get bigger, they stay the same size.

>>128236542
and jews

>>128241358
euthanasia clinics

>>128241637
well the world is severely overpopulated so they've gotta either provide for those who can not work, or start wiping people out at a massive scale.
it's not like all 7.4+ billion humans will be able to find a good well paying job to live a fulfilling life with enough luxury, even if they were all provided free education

and if you're just a wage slave barely getting by, you might as well be on government assistance. at least you have free time

>>128240787
> people PREFER other humans cook their food
wrong
>People PREFER customer support from a human
LOL nope
>People PREFER human creativity
because can't be imitated yet, AI not good enough
>Companies PREFER dealing with self-sustaining, independently thinking humans.
LOL-R-U-4-REAL level wrong
Companies want mindless drones working tirelessly because it IS THE BOTTOM
LINE. The more they can take cost out of menial production parts of the queue out, the better. Why in the FUCK do you think we use gigantic robot arms to make cars instead of hand-hammering chasis and delivering them by truck to another site to be put on frames??

Nigga, you are the niggest-level retarded right now.

>>128241702
If there's no demand for labor, how is that the worker's problem? You can combine the UBI with a jobs guarantee then, offering a productive, hopefully meaningful job to everyone who wants one. God knows the state of public works is so neglected that there will be more than enough to keep the entire reserve labor force busy for years.
>>128241951
People, not half-dicked sociopaths..

>>128236433
Basic income works only if you can ship all the niggers back to africa and sink any boats that come from there. Idle white men are creators. Idle black men are destroyers.

>>128236800

Adam Smithberg created capitalism.

>>128241927
>start wiping people out at a massive scale
God, I fucking hope so, and I hope they start with Africa at that.

>>128236433
The people providing basic income will become the lords of the fiefdom and the receivers of basic income will be their dumb cattle.

At any point the lord can cut off access to basic income on a whim. The dumb cattle will be powerless to do anything about it.

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>>128236433

Is it degenerate or not /pol/?

i would also like to add that many of the people here really hate those who do not work, as if we are leeching from you.

but who are the biggest thieves of all?
social handouts are a drop in the bucket.
get angry at the billionaires and banks instead of at some poor shmucks who are too devastated from life to do anything.

what gives these people the right to own all the land anyway.
"I own this nation. I own this river. I own this forest."
Fuck off with your military bullying shit, forcing us all to slave away for your prison planet nonsense, and enforcing this practice with your holier-than-thou judgement.

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>>128241927
>well the world is severely overpopulated

>>128236433
Work makes you free

>>128242211
>people providing basic income
Robots could do this. That's the point of basic. It's not means-tested so no liberal butt-sticks to lord it over anyone.
>that's why the burger is scared
>>128242288
Double-Chekt
I wonder what this Iroquois rain-dancing forum would be like if burgers were simply not allowed to post, at all, for at least a week.

>>128236994
Yeah, Expanse S02 is eye opening... Earth turns into hellhole for maker, while Mars strive to survive

>>128236433
~ 247,813,910 (2015) adults (over 18) citizens

Federal Revenue: ~$3.46 trillion

Basic Income starting point?????

$1000/mn -> $2,973,766,920,000/yr for all citizens
Already nearly all the yearly revenue

maybe $500? $1.49 trillion/yr that's half the revenue

But wait, we're already spending $3.9 trillion a year just for everything else so where does this 'basic' income come from? One giant big deficit gone wild and god help you from hoarders or people who take the money out of the economy.

>>128242288

The problem with that is our taxes don't go to those handouts at all. Once you cover the government expenses and benefits on your family, you are lucky to cover your own burden.

Put 2 kids in school and that's $24,0000 per year. You better make enough to pay that in taxes just to cover that. Now add police, police pensions, fire, roads...

The rich aren't really ripping you off. They are ripping themselves off.

>>128242576
Money is all make believe though. What really matters is the resources available on the planet. And there is not enough for everyone to sustain a developed nations quality of life.

we really should all just be exterminated

>>128242288
If you kill today's powerful billionaires and create a society without them then you bet your ass i'll be there to fill the power vaccum and make my own money.
What makes you think people will suddenly start being nice because you said so.

Basic income can only really work in a near communist scenario. That might sound bad, but it could be like military life on base. That's not so bad.

Outside of the communist scenario, if you have people earning extra money, the economy is going to shift. Eventually enough people are going to get jobs to create an income gap. That income gap then can cause inflation. The wealthier would be able to buy higher end stuff, more stuff. Eventually more and more people will need to work as they want what their neighbors have. When that occurs, prices go up more. Now it becomes difficult to pay for basic necessities. Households would eventually need to become dual income households just to keep up. Eventually we will be back to where we are today.

In the past, mass deaths with wars, disease, revolutions... seemed to reset things. Today, we pretty much are sheltered from that whiled allowed us to progress to the point where we are.

>>128242393
That's what employers want, yes.
>>128242576
It's a lie that taxes fund spending. If it were, there would be no need for a (((balanced budget))) law. The currency issuer can issue currency to pay for things it (or its people) need, and can destroy that currency through taxation. It is only the desire to make fiat behave like gold (pace Volcker) that demands one equal the other.

>>128242715
>Money is all make believe though.
That the reason you shouldn't take is away or make more of it, if people discovery money don't have any real value or if they fell leached, they will stop working.

>>128242313
are you saying we should nuke china?

>>128242760
What makes you think you'll live for long enough to get the presses up to speed?
>>128243218
No, they would stop working for the petty lords and other tedious fucks that make gratuitous demands on us valued well in excess of what they pay us. Organization and ownership are not inevitably linked.

>>128243151
That would only work if people have a goal in their life, something that keep their act, something like ancient Sparta, but with robot instead of hilotas, so people don't get lazy and fucked.

>>128236433

SAGE GOES IN ALL FIELDS

this is a slide thread you stupid niggers
what kind of basic income loving communist fucking faggot posts here?

>>128236433
How about you just lower your standarts of living? It's not my fault you're retarded, so why are you entitled to have no financial sorrows?

>>128243218
Pro tip: the ONLY thing that gives a currency any more value than any other is an enforceable debt payable only in that currency. i.e. taxes.
>>128243397
Liberal nonsense. People will learn to find things to occupy their time that are useful and pleasing. If they don't, other people won't like them very much. The difference is between starvation and stasis, but the effect on the person will be the same.
>>128243434
Kill yourself, liberal. bamp

>>128236433
You lose the part of the brain which is needed to make money to live

someone put a third head in

nigger colored

only circle "drugs"

>>128243558

Alright shill. You know I'm right. Fuck off and kill yourself before school starts again.

>>128243558
>Pro tip: the ONLY thing that gives a currency any more value than any other is an enforceable debt payable only in that currency. i.e. taxes.
Maybe on some economics book, real life is a little different.

>Liberal nonsense.
Sparta like society, are you imbecile?

People will learn to find things to occupy their time that are useful and pleasing.
Like they do today, with masturbation and being SJWs.

If they don't, other people won't like them very much.
People can live without being popular.

The difference is between starvation and stasis, but the effect on the person will be the same.
Starvation make people to move or die, leave then without choose, stasis make them to stop or move, that's not the same effect.

>Kill yourself, liberal. bamp
Spoken against communist, is liberal.

>>128243926

dont get baited by the leftists you fucking nigger

>>128237093
The Soviet Union figured it out. If you don't work, you're charged with social parasitism, and are forced to work in prison between beatings.

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>>128236598
You're not paying them to do nothing, you're paying them not to revolt, rape your wife, steal your money, and adopt your dog.

>>128236433
>find a flaw
How about two - pakis and niggers

>>128244010
>>128244078
>>128244085
>>128244125

Can someone tell how you faggots cant read

>>128243926
>Maybe on some economics book, real life is a little different.
>real life
>>128243926
Yes, liberalism is intertwined with the religion of progress.
>Like they do today, with masturbation and being SJWs.
I don't even care and I don't even see why you shouldn't be punched in the face for caring.
>People can live without being popular.
Not for very long.
>Starvation make people to move or die, leave then without choose, stasis make them to stop or move, that's not the same effect.
And muh cult of doing is good why again? To generate surplus for parasitic bosses instead of communities? How cucked are you?

>>128244125
kek.

says the american poodle

>>128244125
dumb brits


hheeeeehehehehehehuuhuheheee

>>128243434
>>128244010
>>128244220
Shut the fuck up you literal retard.

>>128244125
kek

says the american poodle

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>>128244357

>>128237803
thanks doc

>>128236433
Where does the money come from?

>>128244651
Money doesn't come from anywhere. It is issued by governments to buy things governments (and their people) need. To avoid excess money in the economy it is destroyed through taxation. That money is conserved between these two points is a simulation made according to policy choice, not a law of nature.

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>>128242760
atleast it would take a while before someone amasses that much wealth and power again. Like, gotta rebuild society and put out all the buildings on fire and also forget why we purged them in the first place kind of time.

There are only 2 states to the cycle of humanity: Order and chaos. We've been in order (albeit a shaky one) for a long time now. We're heading back into chaos for a while. What kind of order will come after that depends on the "winner" and if they learn anything from past mistakes. pro tip they probably won't learn shit

>>128236433
if its too high nobody works and if it's too low nobody cares, the higher it is the fewer people work, the fewer people work the fewer pay tax.

60% of Americans already take more than they give, and most people don't care about self-improvement, they are perfectly content in their miserably shitty lives with no motivation to improve. money to live, for most people, is the ONLY thing to work for.

>>128236433
centralized control turns a population into slave cucks.
>only way for basic income is distributed systems

>>128244537

return the kohinoor you skanks.

your empire lives in history books hahauahahauhauahueeeeeee

>>128244537

londonistan incoming


hahahauauaaauauahuhueheueehue

>>128236598

>so some lazy cunt can sit and do fuck all

Yeah I'm already doing that. By the way, stops shitposting and get back to work, you owe me money.

The whole idea of taxes is ridiculous too.

"Every time the earth revolves around the sun, you owe us money. You don't want to pay us? We will have strong men come to your house with guns, subdue you, kidnap you, and place you in a facility where you will be put in a cage all day."

You should at least be able to choose what your taxes pay for, or opt out altogether. Like refuse medical care, public education, roads, electricity, sewers, etc. What if you just want to live in a small shack on a tiny piece of private land where you do not take anything from the government? Why is such an individual still forced to pay up to the bullies?
I can understand in previous generations with non-stop national war, that every piece of land needs to be used for productive purposes and everyone must contribute, but nowadays it is pointless. We live in a peaceful time where our world leaders are in cahoots, there is no more genuine war, and they should just let us be free.

>>128244244
Wow, the commies now have learned to call everyone who don't agree liberals.
You are defending a almost communist society, were every one contribute with what they can, and every one get what they need, using Marx words, and I'm the commie.

>And muh cult of doing is good why again? To generate surplus for parasitic bosses instead of communities? How cucked are you?
They bosses are parasites, and gibs are communities are good.

GTFO Liberal scum.

>>128244765
If nobody is doing anything because they all get free money then what do they spend their money on?

>>128244537

> muh grate empire!

america's pug

>>128244854
shut the fuck up india. Your people are the laughingstock of every nation. No one likes you or wants you in their country. Be glad the jews are fucking our border policies you subhuman shitskin invader. get the fuck out of canada

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>>128236433

>>128245073

> has a leaf for a flag

acts tough

>>128244809
>>128244969
Taxes don't even need to be levied if there's not enough money in circulation. The only legitimate purpose for taxes is to control inflation.

>>128245453
That why my grandfather worked as a craftsman and could own a decent house and have many kids, my father as a technician could own a house and had two kids, and why I as a college degree have to do extra hours to rent a crap house and don't gain enough to have kids.

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>>128245016
If you believe that progress is inevitable and a human duty, you might be a liberal.
if not, great!
>They bosses are parasites, and gibs are communities are good.
They are. There's no reason that organization of production should entitle anyone to the surplus of that production.
>>128245029
Whatever they get off their asses and produce, of course. See? There is a feedback loop. It's just not driven by the "virtuous greed" of parasitic private owners driving people like whipped dogs for their own reasons and their own benefit.

>>128244969
fuck off, without taxes there's no state

money is an abstract representation of value, we use paper for the sake of its quick mobility, soon to be replaced with encrypted bits; value is the blood of the meta-body that is society, the laws, regulations programs and public structures are the vein wiring, the little tubes through which the blood reaches the whole body so it can all function


its not that hard tvh fám

is also why communism is shit, it attempts to rewire the metabody into some sort of tree when what we have now is a full fledged meta-human

even the greeks understood metabeings, why are canadians so retarded

>>128245401
Is it fun living in a country with the worst living conditions?

Try not to catch malaria on your walk home Sanjit

>>128245073
India>canada. Canada= trans 6 year olds

>>128245709
he is right doe, 1st worlders are pussies, have gay hands and gay hairdos, wouldn't last a week in the real world

>>128245694
you must have not even read my post so there's no point making a counter argument

>>128245648
Then you've got a resource problem or a parasite problem. From all I've heard of Rousseff and Temer, it's probably more of a parasite problem. Get in the streets and beat the fuck out of your corrupt officials. If you had a UBI you could down tools for a while and do that.

>>128245844
i did, you were acting all princess-like about having to pay taxes

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>>128245045
>Gaining independence without even having to fight for it
>Actually thinking we give a shit about Pooland
You poos crack me up

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America is already $20 trillion in debt from welfare. Super welfare will completely bankrupt us.

http://www.usdebtclock.org

>>128245709

>maple leaf.

mr dick dickinson
what is your country famous for exactly?

>>128245693
>If you believe that progress is inevitable and a human duty, you might be a liberal.
if not, great!
When I've said it, stop projecting.
>They are. There's no reason that organization of production should entitle anyone to the surplus of that production.
Sure comrade, no one should be allowed own business or have profit from it, that immoral
>driven by the "virtuous greed" of parasitic private owners driving people like whipped dogs for their own reasons and their own benefit
Can you really say you aren't commie after that?

>>128245825
>real world
So starving in an overpopulated third world nation is "the real world" ?
Jumping innocent and vulnerable people because you're living in poverty is being tough?

If you think your nation is tough, come conquer us with your military. Too bad you're just some angry shitskin in the shitty side of the americas

>>128245764
>Rousseff and Temer
Who, please tell me.

>>128245901
how does it feel to be cucked by the americans??

kek!

>>128245974
they are 1st in the world in gay pornographic production, they have a huge hollywood-tier industry powerhouse of it, honestly

>>128245974
Canada sucks Bill C-16 just passed.

>>128245974
Why do all the indian people want to come here?

It must have something to do with wanting to make a wage greater than a dollar a day.

Nice country you got there. I'm gonna go take a warm bath in my nice apartment. Cheers

>>128245948
Better than society collapsing because the poor don't have any jobs, yeah?

If the poor don't have jobs, nobody is buying food, toys, games, music, or etc, which means that companies will make squat for profit, even if they save 1/3rd of their expenses from firing off their workforce.

>>128236433
Depression rates will rocket

I´m fine with it.

T. Psychologist jewing

>>128246094
yes, it is, 99% of the population lives in abject poverty, your way of life is an abstraction of an abstraction

everyone can act tough when they can pay Americans for an hypergun, but you can't survive in unregulated environments, its a fact of life, just deal with eat and bend over when India says so

>>128246191
>Do what I say or doom will came.

>>128246293
>your way of life is an abstraction of an abstraction
I knew it. This guy is just jealous he lives a shitty life and we live in luxury without worrying about crime. No point discussing this any further.

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>>128246125
You mean like how we helped them in Vietnam?

>>128246191
what i don't get is:
if the robot-companies pay welfare to the poor to buy the shit the robot's made, isn't that just money circling around? like they are literally paying people to buy their shit

im no economist but thats gotta be a red flag of some sort

>>128246394
you can attack me all you want,but that won't make you grow balls

>>128246044
>Sure comrade, no one should be allowed own business or have profit from it, that immoral
It's useless to other people. No comment on the morality aspect.
>Can you really say you aren't commie after that?
So to be in your special little club I have to get off on fantasizing about whipping other people to glorify myself even though I will probably never hold the whip hand?
Is that how /pol/ works? Seriously trying to understand.

>>128246504
And you can insult me all you want for being a pussy, but that won't give you a better life because you're just an impoverished argentinian shitskin

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>>128240000

>>128236542
Fpbp

>>128239450
You do realize everything's going to crash with basic income.
We'd all be commie niggers like yourself, instead of having a work ethic we'll be like Detroit.
Thanks commie

>>128246578
im not insulting you, im just stating a fact

>>128236433
>>128236433
Anyone that respects their self a reasonable amount will never subject themself to work in this modern society. You consider yourself smart? I challenge you to exist for yourself and no one but yourself to your own ends by your own means. You take what the world owes you and you live free. Anything less and you may consider yourself more cucked than I.

>>128246535
>Evil bourgeoisie whip the poor proletarian, and the fools instead of start our glorious revolution chose to defend the system. How can't you see the truth.

>>128246731
there's a point between extreme social isolation and being a fad retard

>>128236645
What's wrong with them? They accomplish their failures by their own volition. With programs like affirmative action and race quotas, they have literally NO EXCUSE

>>128236433
1. Inflation
2. There is no desire to work anymore, look at your pic.

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>>128246460
Don't companies already have to pay their employees wages? If Starbucks didn't pay its employees, it would seriously fuck over the other companies who do pay their employees to consume stuff. That's why not paying employees is illegal. Now imagine if Starbucks just didn't have employees. It would put a huge dent in McDonald's, Wal-Mart's, Subway's, et al, profits.

The idea behind UBI is that everyone is paid to consume and to not die, but they can voluntarily find employment to increase their standards of living (afford a nicer house, car, more, better food, more video games, vacations, etc). There's still incentive to do something with your life, because a doctor would be able to afford many times more what a peasant could, allowing them a much higher standard of living. That way, until everything is automated and there's no reason for any humans to work ever, we have a stopgap that still promotes bettering oneself.

>>128246708
>everything's going to crash
Whose everything, and why should I care whether your whipped-bitch self crashes or not?
>muh protestant work ethic
Calvinists need lobotomies, then to be put on treadmills and never let off. There really is no other use for them. They can't be rehabilitated into proper citizens, they can't be trusted to work for the benefit of whole groups.

>>128246191
>Better than society collapsing because the poor don't have any jobs, yeah?

No. Your welfare state deserves to collapse on your fucking head. Let America be reborn on your ashes.

>>128246535
The main point of the viewpoint is that society is an abstraction, the real thing is the individual, things like bourgeoise, poor, rich, etc, are just abstractions, they don't exist in the real world.

Constraining the individual in order to bring heaven to earth means freezing the world's natural flux in a single instant, that, by being freezed, would actually become hell because there's no future possible.

Rich people own the food and the land. A basic income means nothing when the price of necessities can be manipulated at will. Even the government can alter taxes as they see fit to fuck with the population.

Nothing changes until the sociopaths in power are crushed. End of story.

>>128246809
I take what I want, modern society may interject and claim righteousness but are themselves morally corrupt. What man is granted is granted to him by the grace of god. If someone has the strength and intellect to grant themselves their own wishes it is because god has given them that right.

>>128246974
>Whose everything, and why should I care whether your whipped-bitch self crashes or not?
If you don't care, why you defending minimal, wage? What difference it does.

>Calvinists need lobotomies, then to be put on treadmills and never let off.
Then you came and say you aren't a liberal.

>They can't be rehabilitated into proper citizens
Proper citizen, this sounds really strange to me.

>they can't be trusted to work for the benefit of whole groups.
More hive mind bullshit

>>128246831

3) you subsidize something you get more of it. You tax something you get less. People have as many children as resources allow. By doing this you basically encourage the unproductive leeches to have more and more kids creating a strain on the productive members of society. The leech population will grow much faster than the productive population that's forced to work and pay exhorbant taxes to support the leeches

Life isn't fair. Get over it. We should've give any incentive to being lazy and unproductive. If you aren't productive to society you don't deserve anything from society. You're not entitled to it just because you exist

>>128236433
I predict that even people who are not making any money who would think they could benefit from UBI would actually suffer from it. Here's why.

>I don't have a job and I can live on small amounts of money so that I can focus on my personal pursuits. They matter so much to me that I am doing this instead of selling cars, which would net me a comfortable life.

If everyone had a UBI, then there would be no other incentive to work. The only option for UBI that would still net the necessary productivity for our society to function would be to force people to work.

>Now I got UBI, however the state has determined that my personal pursuits are not of value to society. I have been assigned work by the state because too many people are not working and it needs to get done. I no longer have a choice to live a poor life with more time to myself. I am forced into a minimum wage job and I might as well just sell cars again.

Another case

>I built my company. I hire people to work 8 hour shifts and only a small amount of people chose to have overtime. Me, on the other hand, spend on average 12 hours of my day managing my business. People call me when I am sleeping to fix a problem. Because I own the business, I make much more than my workers. However, I am now taxed to such an extent that I really am not making much more money than your average worker. For this reason, I might as well drop my company and work for someone else. I wouldn't have to pay as much taxes and I would get UBI. I wouldn't make as much money, but I would only be working 8 hours a day 5 days a week and I wouldn't be responsible for taking calls at night or managing the company. The work would be much less stressful. The business management before was not worth the extra time spent with the stress that comes with managing the business because all of my money is taken away.

So I can imagine this kind of struggle happening, and then there would be no growth from new companies.

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>>128246988
>America doesn't implement welfare state
>Automation hits, and hits hard
>Over 50% unemployment rate among adults
>Lack of low-skilled employees means drastic cuts to middle and upper management, who are no longer necessary either
>US economy collapses, society falls apart, we fall into abject poverty not seen since 1492

>Meanwhile, China embraces automation
>Because they're already """communist""", they have no qualms implementing a welfare state to keep their people alive, happy, and consuming
>Robots quintuple their profits, China's economy grows exponentially
>Communists now own most of the money in the world, most of the consumers, have the largest army, and are looking to expand
>The Chinese invade and genocide everyone else in the world for lebensraum, since no one else has nukes and a functioning military anymore

Yeah, good fucking idea, idiot. Let's just let China abuse the shit out of automation. We might as well agree to a climate agreement that says we have to cut back our pollution while letting China pollute all it wants until 2030.

>>128236433
finding money to live makes you improve yourself

>>128236598
It's easy to achieve if you tax automated jobs. You don't need to give money, you get money. Unless you are owner of course.

>>128247292
That's like saying that because we have homeless shelters and welfare, there is currently no reason to work. People living on UBI would not be living Middle Class lives. They'd be living permanently like the upper-strata of the lower class lives now.

>>128246948
Isn't what you are describing kind of slavery?

Now another thing: Wouldn't what you say change the focus from developing cheaper ways to produce to developing better ways to advertise? Like the main money accumulator goes from diminishing costs to making me use the neetbux to consume your product instead of another one.

Like there's this fixed pool of money that Starbucks, McDonald's, Wal-Mart, etc. are pooling for the people to "return" to whoever they see fit, wouldn't that mean that the focus for profit maximizing would relay in advertising rather than fine-tuning production?

>>128236433
I wouldn't work if I didn't need to in order to feed, clothe and house myself. We should be working towards a more humane and uplifting society but without the blood, sweat and tears of the poor society won't exist.

Perhaps one could legalize drugs and people would work to buy them? Or use one kind of money for living necessities (the basic income) and another currency for anything besides room, board and bread. I'm just spitballing at this point.

I think changing work culture is a more reasonable place to start. Since most of us work for most our lives the environment should be bearable, even stimulating.

>>128236433
Literally same problems that come with raising the minimum wage and having an abundance of welfare: Prices skyrocket.

>>128236542
OP BTFO ON SUICIDE

>>128237294
literally this

>>128247297
>America don't became a nanny socialist state.
>God punish America for it
>Sudden people stop working.
>High unemployment cause a lack of workers, what cause more unemployment.

>China don't listen to liberals and continue with a decent economic police.
>Sudden, by magic, Chinese government start acting like liberals (who would be killed) want
>Economy work based on robot magic now
>china returns to communism and its magic based economy is success
>The Chinese, win

>Do as I say or this will happen.

>>128247211
I agree man, life based on proximity, like if priorities were concentric circles: individual, family, friends, neighborhood, city, province, country, world; your model would be sorting the importance from the inside to the outside, individual to world, while communists and most political-minded people usually sort it the other way around, from world to individual

My point was that one could argue, even from an extreme egoist position, that at some point, the wellbeing of the individual is greater when you sacrifice your short term gratification in favour of the most proximate circles of society

>>128244085
But anon, that's what guns are for.

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>>128247078
good luck getting to them, they're behind 1000 PMCs

only make it available to those proving that they are either working or finding work

in the case of finding work make jobs give proof of interview or some voucher like such.

this kind of subsidy are a privilege

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>>128247441
Not really, but it's got some parallels.

>Now another thing: Wouldn't what you say change the focus from developing cheaper ways to produce to developing better ways to advertise?
Yes, in essence. The economy will be based around who can produce the best products at the cheapest price. Competition for neetbux would be skyhigh. Hell, it'd help entrepreneurs who want to start up businesses next to big ones, because they could taut higher quality due to human workforce, or just having a human workforce in general. Having worked in a grocery store before, there are people who just prefer having baggers to bag their stuff and talk to them instead of getting it done faster, cheaper, and easier via machine.

It's all hypothetical, really, but it's easily a better choice, no matter how bad it is, than letting society collapse altogether. Without poor people to buy McDonalds, who will? Rich people don't shop at Wal-Marts, they don't eat at McDonalds (except when trying to run for political office), and they don't use public transportation. All of these companies automating their workforce will go under without a consumer base, but they will also go under if they cannot cut their expenses like their competition. The first company to automate the majority of its workforce dooms us all into an unemployment spiral.

Basically, the first mega-kike that can't see past their own nose is going to blow up our society. That is, unless we get a UBI of course.

>>128247673
what the fuck is this monkey saying?

>>128246770
I am commie, hear me try to argue against your identity politics and have no success.
>>128247057
They exist in the sense that they control access to resources for no good reason.
>Constraining the individual
So how is life in Weimar, anyway?
>>128247269
>If you don't care, why you defending minimal, wage?
I'm defending a universal basic income. That's different from a minimum wage. I consider aristocracies as treacherous frauds to be destroyed. That's the everything I'm willing to bring down.
>Then you came and say you aren't a liberal.
Liberals would simply string them along and tell them to work harder for some moral heaven on earth.
If Calvinists would stop forcing other people to live by their crap ideolaropolgy, and fuck off any other way, I'd be perfectly happy. I presume they won't because they're far too convinced of their own moral infallibility and their ridiculous preconceptions to be reasoned with.
>Proper citizen, this sounds really strange to me.
You know, not otaku.
>More hive mind bullshit
Really now. Ensuring everyone has access to resources is hive mind? Fallacy of the excluded middle. What the hell is so incomprehensible about sufficiency instead of excellence?

>>128244085
So we should be blackmailed and live as serfs?

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>>128236433
>after basic income: help community

no such thing

>>128247269

He's a commie Brazil-Bro;
Anti-capitalist, anti-God, pro "all might" Government, lazy, just a typical commie.

USSR is his paradise, Stalin is his Hitler, odd parallels to Pol.

>>128247735
I thought about that, too, but it wouldn't work, not in America. Poor people have guns, too. A lot of them will be made up of veterans looking for an easy way to get by. Even if you've got an armory, you'd still be taken out by an angry mob led by competent strategists directing the vandals.

>>128247825
> it'd help entrepreneurs who want to start up businesses next to big ones
I was about to make a follow up post about this, what would happen if a new coffee business with human workforce, therefore extent from paying neetbux, won part of the Starbucks alloted money and Starbucks wasnt able to pay the neetbux?

>>128247890
What, do you want your society to crumble and devolve into mass poor-people genocide?

I know that's what the kikes want, but I want Western society to remain the best in the world.

>>128236433

> ignoring the part when you've secured a job that will provide for you well past your every desire
> Still needing to worry about money after that point

That info-graphic is plain fucking fantasy. You take the pre-good work of "before UBI" and compare it to "when leeches get what they want" of the "after UBI" hypothetical.

If you aren't willing to work and make a living for yourself, why should I have to help you? You couldn't help yourself.

>>128247429
Welfare is a great example of what is going on though. People on welfare are not the types of people who should be breeding a lot. And they get paid the more children they have. These single mothers spread their legs and get paid for it. Who pays for it? People who are actually providing something of value to society. Those people are just breeding more people who will end up dependent.

>>128247292

>The only option for UBI that would still net the necessary productivity for our society to function would be to force people to work.
You're assuming a hive mind, here. People may want to work for their own reasons that are just as subjective as staying home and doing art.
>For this reason, I might as well drop my company and work for someone else
False alternative. You could downscale your business. Or you could see a shrink about your workaholism problem.
>I wouldn't have to pay as much taxes and I would get UBI
Are you being paid to completely miss the point that everyone gets UBI, whether working, self-employed, unemployed, disabled, or whatever?
>growth
All growth is predicated on exogenous energy. All of it. Fuck growth. Natural resources for growth are running out. At some point we will need to transition to a steady-state economy not dependent upon spinning the merry-go-round faster to pay off parasitic bankers.
>>128247473
>without the blood, sweat and tears of the poor society won't exist.
Literally what? Dear God, what definition of society are you using?
>>128247783
Hey, weeb, did you miss the point about universal?

>>128248002
Starbucks is a multinational corporation owned by Pepsi. They'll manage just fine if their automated shops are set up next to a human-run mom & pop coffee shop.

>>128247943
Stop projecting, leaf.

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>If we give everyone free money the world will be a better place.

KYS WE DONT NEED EVRYONE ON WELFARE

>>128248037
Yes, but we can't kill them off. As much as you or I would like to kill all of them off, it would be impossible unless we devolved into a civil war

>>128247885
Lol, Weimar has nothing to do with it, Weimar is about unhealthy lifestyles, promoted by the same structure you want to give complete reign over individuals

The "utopia" of the view point Brazil was arguing for is a world in which the individual has an open access to knowledge, free from all sorts of social engineering, and can take decisions based on the natural wellbeing of the mind and body

What we live in today is a hybrid between that and your tyrannical dream, where only the men who are free from social engineering are the ones who learn to spot it and flee from it

>>128236433
You gotta replace the responsibility of "money to live" with something else or people don't work hard

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>>128248063
>universal

so a global welfare construct pretty much?
such a tempestuous concept up there with welfare.

Yeah it's a no from me and anyone with a semi-functional left brain hemisphere you dolt

>>128248120
I don't want to kill them off I just don't think they should make babies.

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>>128248267
Then how about UBI given only to those who accept being sterilized?

>>128247885
>I am commie
Finally

>I'm defending a universal basic income.
Each one give what they can, and get what they need.

>Liberals would simply string them along and tell them to work harder for some moral heaven on earth.
If Calvinists would stop forcing other people to live by their crap ideolaropolgy, and fuck off any other way, I'd be perfectly happy. I presume they won't because they're far too convinced of their own moral infallibility and their ridiculous preconceptions to be reasoned with.
Wow I hit a nerve now, what a liberal hate most is be called liberal, isn't it?

>You know, not otaku.
Funny liberals really hate otakus for some reason.

>Really now. Ensuring everyone has access to resources is hive mind?
No, it's communism

>>128248074
But my implied point is that, isn't bad for economy when there's political interest that a company keeps making profit?

Like you bitch about profiteering jews but what you propose is that the whole wellbeing of society should be tied to making the jew's profits never go down

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>>128247753
AAAAAAAA keep that away from me

>>128248037
>>128248120
Oh man. Never underestimate the fight in a woman protecting her cubs.
>>128248191
Weimar was a lot of things. Among other diseases, it was an individualistic, cosmopolitan society. That's part of why it broke down.
>>128248323
>Finally
And?
>Each one give what they can, and get what they need
And what of the surplus?
>>Ensuring everyone has access to resources is hive mind?
>No, it's communism
And?

>>128248016
What, do you want your society to crumble and devolve into mass poor-people genocide?
Do I as say or bad thing will happen.
>I know that's what the kikes want, but I want Western society to remain the best in the world.
Kikes what a totalitarian state, like Huxley or Orwell have written about.

>>128248095
Wow, comrade, no need to get this angry.

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I just wanna say it's not like any of us have to worry about it, the decision won't come down to us. You guys just get a job, buy guns and food supply and be ready in case dindus come for your stuff. leave it to our wise leaders

>>128247703
You need not sacrifice a thing, if truley blessed you may realize everything you wish to realize. The only question is are you willing to live based on the assumption you are blessed and risk destroying what you love? The question then becomes "do you believe your way is right?" A question only the fully certain can entertain.

>>128248316
We still have to pay for that though. The best way to do it while paying less is to limit welfare, at least so that people don't get paid for doing nothing except having more babies.

>communist american in this thread thinks communism works after every communist regime has fallen in cataclysm
>UBI YES

eugenics really doesn't sound bad if i'm being honest at this point

>>128248341
Couldn't you use the same logic for modern employment, though? Under UBI, everyone is employed by every employer, simultaneously, rather than a single employer. Currently, McDonalds' employees each earn about 12 - 17k a year. Multiply that by 200k, and you can see how astronomical the costs of employing people are already.

Hell, for most companies, wages for employees take up an entire 35% of the company's expenses. Cut out that 35%, improve the rate at which you can sell products, and suddenly you have a whole lot more money freed up to pay for taxes.

>>128248483
>Oh man. Never underestimate the fight in a woman protecting her cubs.

Who is mamma bear going to club to death when the US goes bankrupt and no one can pay for her children?

>>128248498
You're a fucking idiot

>>128248483
It wasn't individualistic, it was apathetic; it was also (((coincidentally))) at the same time of the "second printing press revolution" if you will, the popularization of movies and the massification of propaganda and advertisement, your world view, like every other modernist ideology, completely (((forgets))) about this fact (and abuses it as a tool, too).

>>128248483
>Weimar was a lot of things. Among other diseases, it was an individualistic, cosmopolitan society. That's part of why it broke down.
Weimar was prostitution playground where Germans had to sell them bodies or starve.

Sorry I, as most of people here, don't have time for you genocide ideology.

>>128236433
I'd be fine with UBI in an all white country, but I'll be goddamned if I'm paying for more gibs to shitskins.

>>128248673
But you're not going to get rid of welfare without causing society to collapse. Once the cat's out of the bag, it isn't getting back in. We already have hundreds of thousands of people living on welfare already. Imagine if niggers lost their welfare. Suddenly, a horde of hungry chimps start marching across America, murdering people who have money or food.

Welfare/UBI is to prevent us from becoming South Africa.

>>128248649
By sacrifice i mean physical sacrifice, not something you could brush off by redefining sacrifice

Self sacrifice is the main point of western civilization, and i would say world, but i don't know enough about other cultures to say that

>>128248713
well for starters, the person doing that would rather shit his day away to prevent him shitting his day away on the fucking streets or slums

>>128248888
That no reason to put ore cats on the bag.

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>>128248888
Oh shit, those digits. Kek approves, apaprently.

>>128237271
it's not good in any way, but most americans(white niggers and regular niggers) have it in their blood to be wage cucks. there is no biological, moral or legal impetus to "go to work". that's like the mouse climbing into the cats mouth.

kikes added all the twists and turns to just existing. why should someone have it better than you just because? television and mass media has been used as a psychological battering ram to warp americans sense of community and society.

>>128248952

Yes, that's the point of the quote though isn't it? He's saying how can someone 'enjoy' being a wageslave.

>>128248714
But you just said that entrepeneurs would flourish cause using human workforce would man less taxation, i thought you meant that the companies using automatization would be the only ones pooling money for the UBI, which would freeze them in market because they would become a political asset, meaning monopolization

>>128249052
Stockholm syndrome.

>>128236598
You already are, Peter.

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>>128236433

>>128249052
Because... they don't to live in abject poverty and would like a fighting chance to at least try to stay out of it. It's not like any other system is better than what we have so his point and yours are moot
>>128249101
you never worked a real job in your life

>>128249052
>>128249101
To be fair Bukowski isn't supposed to be taken as anything else than a window to the mind of a drunken parasite, hell he is fully self-aware of it, he constructs his short stories based around that theme

>>128249063
UBI is paid for by taxes, so yes, even mom & pop shops would pay into the pool.

It is theory that has its roots in Trickle Down.

>>128249188
That was a joke burger, relax.

>>128248095

So I am right. You could at least admit it.
So what if you like Stalin and Communism, you're anonymous.

I pitty commies because they don't understand basic economics.
Basically the whole system sucks but the closest thing to a slightly less crappy system is Capitalism (freedom of choice). Life isn't fair, Communism is a lie.

Communism is like burning the house down because it's a little cool inside.
I used to like Communism too until I learned basic economics (Government control bad).

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>>128249234

>>128249225
So automatization has nothing to do with it, we could implement it right now

But its actually half-implemented in most parts of the world, even South America has neetbux to cover unemployed people's basic needs

So the idea is that when automatization comes there's enough extra money that we can raise taxes astronomically neetbux can be a "basic consumption plan"?

>>128249188

I said this already, he's not questioning why work exists he's questioning why anyone would say they enjoy it or talk about how grateful they are.

Buk was right, why would you preach about how great it is to work all day when Mr Big is buying his 5th gold plated yacht.

>>128249101
You got it. Sory the argument got so confused.
>>128249188
After monkeywrenching every honest attempt at creating such conditions in South American countries, you should probably shut the fuck up about muh better parasitism.
>>128249225
There is no such thing as paid for by taxes. That's a custom that the central banks adhere to because it gives them the power to stop things like UBI. Taxation and spending are completely independent. There is one legitimate reason to tax, and that is to remove money from an overheating economy.
>>128249256
>basic economics
I seem to be the only one here who understands the power of a sovereign currency issuer. Everyone else seems to believe that taxes "pay for" spending, which is utterly untrue.
>muh freedom of choice
Just admit your life is nothing without someone to feel better than.
>government control bad
Then ban the Secret Service. Kick these uppity gasbags into line when they fuck up, and you won't have problems.

>>128248888
Welfare has ended badly enough I don't know why you would also add UBI which would make things worse for the inevitable collapse of our current government.

>>128249425
>After monkeywrenching every honest attempt at creating such conditions in South American countries, you should probably shut the fuck up about muh better parasitism.
You have forced us to send the army to street and hunt down you, destroying our democracies and economies. You give us a fight chance, a fight chance against commies.

>There is no such thing as paid for by taxes. That's a custom that the central banks adhere to because it gives them the power to stop things like UBI. Taxation and spending are completely independent. There is one legitimate reason to tax, and that is to remove money from an overheating economy.
You don't know a thing about economy do you?

>Just admit your life is nothing without someone to feel better than.
Just admit you are a soulless drone of the collective.

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>>128249409
Basically, yeah. Automation improves sales rates, reduces the costs spent on employing people, and is a long term investment that pays itself off real quick.

The only reason we haven't fallen into an unemployment spiral is because automation is currently too expensive compared to the average worker. It costs $150k to replace one worker, currently. If the basic employees are only earning $12k - $17k a year, it'd take over a decade to pay them off. HOWEVER, if the minimum wage is raised to high, like in Seattle, then the companies will just bite the bullet and pay for that investment anyways. It's already happened in several parts of the world. Not on a massive scale, but it's comparable to computers. At first, only a couple of companies could afford them, but only 10 years later, almost every single building had at least one computer in it, from schools, to stores, to government offices.

So too will automation replace our workforce. It'll get cheaper, more efficient, easier to implement. Then, the lower class disappears.

>>128236433
>The supermajority of your population goes on welfare 2.0
>Economy implodes because there aren't enough workers
>Famine, poisoned water, and infrastructure collapse begin killing millions.
>Society caves in on itself and population is dramatically slashed.
>Capitalists spend the next hundred years rebuilding civilization.
>Eventually give birth to a few generations of hyper-entitled worthless socialist twits.
>They ask this same retarded question and the cycle continues.

Take your worthless trash ideas and get the fuck out of my country please.

>>128249769
>The supermajority of your population goes unemployed
>Economy implodes because there aren't enough workers
>Famine, poisoned water, and infrastructure collapse begin killing millions.
>Society caves in on itself and population is dramatically slashed.
>Capitalists spend the next hundred years rebuilding civilization.
>Eventually give birth to a few generations of hyper-entitled worthless socialist twits.
>They ask this same retarded question and the cycle continues.
t. retard

>>128249570
Down here welfare is being merged into a new kind of shit, the idea is they give you a couple extra K's (in pesos, around 70 USDs) if you get a job in a small-medium company, like they add up some $$ to an unsufficient wage so companies can benefit from more employees without getting crippled from paying the wages, and you move your ass from the couch

The idea is that this extra Ks will eventually catch up with inflation, but the companies will also get a boost and be able to fully afford the inflated wages

>>128249829
Seems better than a eternal socialist nanny state.

>>128249409
>there's enough extra money that we can raise taxes astronomically neetbux can be a "basic consumption plan"?
Sort of. UBI can be considered a universal dividend. It can be paid out based upon productivity gains, for example. The key point is that taxes do not "pay for" spending; fiat is not gold, however much central banks and their financiers would prefer to treat it that way. The money for UBI can be "newly" issued straight from the US treasury, and can be drawn out of the economy through taxes.
>>128249570
Welfare's failures are due to the fact that it is means-tested. A non-means-tested program gives everyone a reason to keep it universal.
>>128249707
I was talking to the burger, not you.
>You don't know a thing about economy do you?
I clearly am better-read about it than you are. The idea that money is scarce is demonstrably false when there is always, always the ability for the US to create money to make war on some pariah country or other, for some or no reason, but never, ever new money to make better lives for the public.
>Just admit you are a soulless drone of the collective.
Just admit you're making stuff up.

>>128248888
Sounds great. I can finally shoot them instead of being their slave. Bring it niggers.

>>128249979
No, it doesn't

>>128249769
>Economy implodes because there aren't enough workers
Proofs? If there are not enough workers, then goods get expensive and people have to get off their asses. There is still a feedback loop. There is just no snot-nosed Harvard fuck to administer it and profit off your misery.

>>128249753
Not even kidding: That picture was taken at the Jack in the Box about 2 miles from my house. I never used that automated kiosk and nobody did. Eventually they taped a laminated sign to it that offered free tacos if you used it.

They took it out of the store over a year ago. You can still see the little holes in the tile where it had been bolted to the floor.

>>128250004
>I clearly am better-read about it than you are.
Go read a book, I've a higher IQ, reeeeeeeeeeeeeee

>The idea that money is scarce is demonstrably false
I know this, but this isn't good for the economy, now stop being a brat and saying how much you know about economy.

>>128248888
Are you saying it's impossible to slowly wean a society off of welfare?

>>128250165
What do you know about economics then? Not interested in "the economy" as it is played when the point of the UBI exercise is to change those rules.
>I know this, but this isn't good for the economy
What economy? Whose economy? Why should I care about "the economy" when it is as replaceable as any wetback digging a trench?

>>128248909
If you surrender your sense of self to anything 'larger' you can consider yourself cucked. Nothing but men created what came before and nothing but men will create what comes after. God gave those who rule the strength needed and from that strength spawned culture. If you have not the strength to stand for nothing but yourself you are nothing but a disciple at best. Doomed to follow instead of lead.
Culture and the future are both determined by those who have the power to plant the seeds, if you submit you pass the torch and the metaphorical right to define your beliefs to someone else.

>>128236433

You can do all those things other than "money to live" without working. Why would I work if I had a basic income?

>>128236542
Fpbp. Also, my sides. Hehehe

>>128250311
>God gave those who rule the strength needed and from that strength spawned culture
Okay there, Moloch.
>>128250331
>God gave those who rule the strength needed and from that strength spawned culture
Because you like nice things.
Because you want to work as a team with people.
Because you want to contribute to society and don't need to be forced to.
Because you want to get out of the house.
There are plenty of reasons not including the threat of ruin to work. If you don't have them, others will.

>>128250299
>What do you know about economics then?
Enough to know that dissociated tax and government spending create a huge wealth disparity, and destroy small business in favor of corporations. Take create huge power structures under the hands of the bourgeoisie, jew, ..., call it what ever you want.

>>128250492
>and don't need to be forced to.
The ultimate irony.

>>128249753
>the lower class disappears
I would say it gets redefined, but doesn't dissapear, its a definition based on plotting wages in a chart

In respect to the unemployement spiral i think this goes well beyond automatization, in my view, doe it could be pure self-unaware autism, the economical stagnation is directly related to the social engineering, i feel most people are completely dettached to the most real aspects of their lives, work being the main one, and i'm not that sure it would surface once the "need-to-live angst" is supressed, i feel its more psychological than anything else, i think its wholy because of the amount of texts and narratives about what is morally correct rather than because of a distracting anxiety

And by morally correct i don't mean the usual shit that egoists cling to to justify their bullshit, i mean this pervasive "whats the correct way to live and act if we want to help the world become beter", i feel it has created some sort of abstracted model of human that people jerkoff to

Kind of like Dorian Gray's portrait but without the ending, this adoration and obsession of the self-image, and not only in an ego way, but like people regard themselves as an observer of their lifes, and life like a circulation around motifs that they gather from culture that keeps getting increasingly psychodramatic and obsessed with exploring "the self" from a supposed cosmic/"independent impartial conscioussness" 3rd point of view

I dunno if i made myself clear, im almost sure i didn't, but i still don't know how to fully express this sensation of irreality

>>128239018
People can be incentivized by any form of token. "Likes" of kikebook, for example.
>sandy liked the ditch you dug

>>128250311
Eeeeh i kind of agree but only in a very specific contextual basis, i would gladly "cuck my self" for my family or play my role in a group instead of trying to be a little star if that furthers the winning of the group

But again, the group needs to be physical, not abstract, wouldn't do it for a society or the world, but yes when its, i dunno, at most 20 people

Wolfpack, not ant colony

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>>128236433
slave a flave. are you a fucking nigger or something?

>>128250492

>Because you like nice things.
Because you want to work as a team with people.
Because you want to contribute to society and don't need to be forced to.
Because you want to get out of the house.
There are plenty of reasons not including the threat of ruin to work. If you don't have them, others will.

You've never actually had a real job, have you?

>>128250311
So you don't believe that we must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children? Interesting.

>>128251074
Some people will, but will be few.

>>128250620
>dissociated tax and government spending create a huge wealth disparity
I think you're assuming that tax is necessarily < spending in your scenarios.
The point is that spending and taxation can be balanced so that the total money outstanding equals the amount of resources and labor available for use. It's just that permanent ruling classes tend to prefer to write themselves checks than administer public services, so will need to be kept on a very short leash. Tax everything in excess of UBI at a flat rate, if you like. Taxation should be apportioned fairly, not driven by thousands of deductions and credits and preferences. That's how you get ants. I don't want ants either.
Most importantly, keep it simple. People can't tell when they get jewed under current tax law because it's complicated, requiring a whole industry of dead-weight guides. UBI + flat tax is too simple to jew. Also, with UBI, you won't risk ruin if you decide to go find who's jewing you and set them straight.

>>128251074
As a matter of fact, I have. I've also known people who went out to work for each of those reasons.
Your sociopathy is not a norm.

>>128251115

why would he. he believes in nothing but himself. nothing bigger than him. he cant belong to a community he just wants to be liked.

>>128251222

Yeah, i'm sure all of the people out there working shitty jobs are going to stay in them and not just live off the basic income, especially when they're getting taxed out the ass to pay for other people's basic incomes.

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>>128236542

This.

>>128250492
>Okay there, Moloch.
its only Molochy in big cities and huge interconnected societies, small communities tend to have more acknowledgement and a more pure leader archetype

>>128251273
>I think you're assuming that tax is necessarily < spending in your scenarios.
If not such a welfare state would require huge taxes, how would cripple the small, leaving the marked open to corporations.

>Most importantly, keep it simple. People can't tell when they get jewed under current tax law because it's complicated, requiring a whole industry of dead-weight guides.
I agree in this point

> UBI + flat tax is too simple to jew.
Too easy to jew, but you can''t tax people too much, the economy will collapse in the end of Rome or in USSR.

>>128250492
Historically the ideas perpetuated throughout history are the ideas the strongest men of ancient times. Or rather the strongest ideas of ancient times... but who spawned these ideas we regard as culture?
Men, nothing but men. The role of the divine is evident even today in modern society. Rather than directly reveal the divine and command openly, god gives man strength to rule himself and others in the name of what is right.
Though self righteousness may breed many imposters one only need look to God and wait, as only the strongest survive.
Thousands of years from now a culture will be followed, but what culture indeed? And who's ideas are it's blood? Yours? Mine?
Impossible for us to say, we will never see the fruition of our labor all we can do is live true to ourselves, uncompromising until the end.
Thus is mans true strength.

>>128250492
free money is inevitable but settle down until the robots actually took er jerbs.

>>128251588
philosophy pays well. enjoy your prosperity.

>>128251745
see, this shit, this guy most than surely browses /pol/ in his phone with vacant eyes while he fondles his balls and then smells his fingers

he can't be fixed by UBI, he needs some strong dose of spiritual chemo

>>128236433
>Find a flaw

Women will rule the world

>>128250931
>>128251115
You imply that things that are objectively real would not apply to my own way of life. You seem to believe that the only way to protect things is to sacrifice yourselves. But what if after you've sacrificed yourself you lose what is precious to you? After all you are no longer able to protect that which you wish to protect.
The answer is to live in such a way that you will not force you to contort your beliefs or life to protect what you care about. You live righteously and god will grant your flock protection. Only the unjust or insecure fear holy repercussion.
And the unwillingness to risk what you hold dear can be thought of in only one way. Cowardice.. And god frowns on cowards.