15$ Ontario Minimum Wage

Every word you said is wrong. There is no "demand" line (it's a polynomial curve), there is certainly no "supply" line, and there's no smooth transition between two equilibria.

>he supply curve for labor can ‘slope backwards’ – so that a fall in wages can cause an increase in the supply of labor;
>when workers face organized or very powerful employers, neoclassical theory shows that
workers won’t get fair wages unless they also organize
>Sraffa’s observations about aggregation indicate that it is inappropriate to
apply standard supply and demand analysis to the labor market;
>to maintain the pretense that market demand curves obey the Law of
Demand, neoclassical theory had to assume that income was redistributed by ‘a benevolent
central authority’ (Mas-Colell et al. 1995: 117) prior to exchange taking place.

>>128214244
Pretty much this, but you don't need to say anything remotely nuanced or intricate to debunk equilibrium theory. The assumptions equilibrium theory makes to produce their silly charts are so far removed from reality that equilibrium theory debunks itself.

>>128215726

Tell that to 90% of all economists, 99% of all political economists, and 99.9% of all economists in the media.

>>128214244
>>128215726
it makes perfect sense. when people have more money they want to buy more and better things.

if i have one apartment and 3 people want to rent it then i can raise the price until there is one willing person left.

if nobody wants to rent my place then i have to incrementally reduce my rate till someone bites or endure longer periods with no tenant.

>>128216084

>Common sense = reality
God, I thought Ptolomy and Aristotle had been debunked since Galileo...

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>>128213068

Yea, just like how electing a socialist created capital flight and caused all the rich people to leave and pull their foreign investment funds out because they didnt want it to be redistributed, that worked great for our economy, sure maintained that surplus the Conservatives handed off.

You lefty/pol/ kiddos are fucking braindead.

>>128214244
>citing Sraffa
get out, you fucking shill

>>128216084

Oh, and confusing transactions between individuals with market aggregation, and not knowing the difference beween an asset and labor.
>ITT: it's another episode of "There is no macro, only Micro"
Neck yourself.

>>128216017
I do and there's more economists who don't believe in equilibrium theory than you think.

>>128216084
Raising/lowering prices is not indicative of some equilibrium existing. Supply of apartments can be exactly nill and your rat infested hellhole can still see no interested renters regardless of the rent you offer.

>>128213068
I personally can't wait for more robots taking my order at fast food places and not having to make small talk with cashiers in grocery stores. Feel bad for all the small businesses out there who are getting shafted. But hey, there's an election coming up, and Liberals know how to appeal to idiots.

>>128216663

Debunk Sraffa, please. From what I see, Samuelson and Walras are BTFO.

>>128217017
Stop with the PK bullshit, m8. The Internet is not a good source for learning economics. You are more than 50 years behind the curve. Out, out, out.

People trying to disbunk the economic theory when the reality is even if the theory is wrong all the brainlets have been replaced by technology in the real world for this very reason. NOT AN ARGUMENT.

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>>128217411
c u later :D :D :D

>>128217339

What curves? Everything has been reduced to lines!! If it's not a pair of lines crossing, it's no good!
>Linear maths
>Trying to make sense of a non-linear world
Economics is 100 years behind the curve, it's using mathematical shovels when there's bulldozers available.
> I can say out, out, out as well. Not an argument.

>>128217411
its common knowledge that demand increases prices if supply stagnates.

>>128216992
>This.
The machine never gets my order wrong also

>>128216935
Could it be because, if you don't believe to the bottom of your heart in equilibrium theory, you're of no use to the high finance bastards who hire econoshills?

>>128216935
>Raising/lowering prices is not indicative of some equilibrium existing. Supply of apartments can be exactly nill and your rat infested hellhole can still see no interested renters regardless of the rent you offer.

That is irrelevant as it ignores the 'cost' of it being shit. It is like saying 'well that shit on the floor is free why don't you take it home?'

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>>128217411

>>128218108
The equilibrium for that can be zero on both sides retard

It's the same for literal shit. Equilibrium doesn't imply there has to be a price

>>128217948

That really jingles my jangles, anon!

>>128218510
How is zero not a price?

>>128216992
the best thing about the machines is that i can order and pay as soon as i walk in the door rather than having to wait in line behind autists who dont read the menu before joining the line and bitches who cut in line to complain about something.

>>128217948
Well yeah, obviously. I wouldn't say it's just 'high finance bastards' though. It's more of a corporatist thing where corporations will fund market fundamentalist (unfettered free market & free trade (which exist based off of equilibrium theory)) think tanks, forums, and so on. It's really just corporatism disguised as actual analysis.

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>>128213068
$15 minimum wage is fine in a city, its pretty well recognised by now that the minimum wage doesn't nearly have the same impacts as is predicted by the classical model

>>128218706
Also a good point. Think tank, policy laundering shoppe, same difference.

>>128218108
Equilibrium theory states very clearly as a contingency of an equilibrium existing that "all products are homogenous." It's perfectly relevant.

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>>128213068

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>>128217513
Who cooks the food? How much do they make?

>>128218740
See
>>128218183

It absolutely is not fine. Thousands of people in Seattle have been replaced by AI because of the $15 minimum wage. Those remaining saw a huge cut in their hours, too, so they're earning just a tiny bit more than they were prior to the raise.

>>128218959
No as you can just reclassify them as different products. So there is a market for shit housing and a market for good housing.

>>128218706
>actual analysis

Hmm, let me see...
>a single consumer, rational, always maximizing his "utility"(whatever that is) for the infinite future, with perfect prediction including for his descendants
>his only income comes from the only business in the economy, of which he is the sole owner, and sole worker

This is reality for Economics
>FUCK
>MY
>LIFE

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>>128219068
No they haven't. You right wing corporate bootlickers are notorious liars. Seattle employment is booming and the unemployment rate is 2.8%

You right wing retards are so fucking brain dead, you don't even know that even with kiosks, there are still workers at the till and doing all the cooking, cleaning, etc. They make $15/hour

>>128218959
Unless you evaluate ALL like an autist and say grass cutting should be the same as housing - INTELLECTUALLY DISHONEST AND NOT AN ARGUMENT>

>>128218959
Relevant, maybe, but inapplicable.
>>128219068
No, really, why aren't you drinking battery acid right now you shill?

>>128218963

does it have something to do with the legal weed business? check to see if there is a direct correlation. opening up an entirely new market that was once a black market may have something to do with the employment prospects in that city.

>>128213068
When they heard we might have less immigrants here they pre-emptively bumped up prices.

>>128218959

Equilibrium theory depends on assumptions
>But the assumptions are never seen in the real world!
Assumptions don't matter if they give good results
>So, everyone got rich shorting Freddie Mac, amirite?

>>128219500
Right wing retards promised me that a $15/hour minimum wage would kill jobs and that unemployment would skyrocket. As always, the billionaire globalist corporate shillcucks were wrong

>>128219594
Nice meme, bro. Too bad it's been disproven.

>>128219329
its just following a trend that started well before the minimum wage talk and it isnt at the stage where everyone makes 15$ minimum yet.

>>128219594
Oh look, more crossed straight lines!
>All hail the totem, and the modl

LABOUR IS NOT AN ASSET

>>128217654
You literally know nothing about economics.

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>>128219764
So then u just admitted that the entire right wing corporate cuck argument that raising the minimum wage kills jobs is bullshit

>>128219799

If your claim to knowing about Economics is to repeat neo-classical bunk to me, you know nothing about markets, about money, and about life.

>>128219799
(((Whose))) economics, cocksucker?

>>128213068

$15 an hour isn't even that much in a country where a house costs 3-5 times what it costs in the U.S.

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>>128219068
>Thousands of people in Seattle have been replaced by AI because of the $15 minimum wage
I certainly don't deny that minimum wage hikes can increase unemployment however the effect is typically far smaller than that predicted by the classical model. There's plenty of evidence to support this.

What your also missing is the benefits that those who remain employed reap from an increased minimum wage.

Talking about Seattle in specific there was a small drop in employment as for hours worked I'm not sure however I doubt this nearly outweighs the benefits of the $15 wage.

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>Unemployment Fell
>Because Labour Participation Rate Fell

ABSOLUTELY KEK

>>128213068
UGH. Just throw my FUCKING TENDIES TO THE WIND.

I JUST got a new higher paying job and FUCK now it's meaningless.

>>128219851
no i am saying that we havent seen it at full force yet and there was already an employment boom and momentum happening before this law was even negotiated.

>>128219851
Have you not seen the McDonald's kiosks? Always a fucking leaf.

>>128216017
Argumentum ad populum. Please refrain from using it

>>128219220
Look, I already know where this is going so I'll cut the BS short:

Equilibrium theory is predicated on the assumptions that all products are homogenous (coke and pepsi are perfect substitutes (they're not), perfect competition (no form of monopolistic pricing can occur whatsoever (even though the prior already debunks this)), perfect understanding (consumers have a perfect understanding of the market and situation that they're in (no one does)), and perfectly rational behavior (all people act in perfectly in their own best interest (which doesn't happen because people only act rationally from their own point of view. I.E. Bias exists -- which debunks this point)) among some others. The moment any of these are violated even a tiny bit is the moment and situation that an equilibrium cannot exist as they purport... Which is to say every situation everywhere. Simply put, nothing follows a pattern of equilibrium and in fact, you can more accurately say that things trend toward disequilibrium and entropy.

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>>128220105
The unemployment rate fell because unemployed people got jobs. Right wing retards literally don't understand this simple concept.

Do you have any idea how low 2.8% unemployment is? Workers have all the power and employers have to compete for labor. It's the best thing for workers and it's conservashit right wing retard billionaire globalist's worst nightmare

>>128216017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn2PDUTtp-g

>>128220212
When do the job losses that right wingers promised me happen? 2042?

>>128220328
No the labour participation rate fell which means they aren't even looking for jobs you brainlet

>>128220281

Automation will happen regardless, for all jobs that entail a lot of manual labor, especially face-to-face services.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baumol's_cost_disease

>>128214244
>workers won’t get fair wages unless they also organize
they do, it's called having a real fucking job and optionally being in a union

$15 a month for everyone is retarded, it just makes everyone poorer when it all goes up and our dollar will keep dropping. If you make $32 an hour and the lowest wage is $11, you have almost 3x more purchasing power than them, now with $15 you have hardly more than double, even if you get a $2 raise you're still being majorly cucked

>>128219349
>>128219451
Perfectly applicable, equilibrium theory is madness. I'll defer you here: >>128220309

>>128220300

Well, I'm saying they're all wrong. It could be an argumentum anti-populum, anon.

>>128220010
This is what happens when you give kids a copy of SimCity.
>>128220432
I think you're saying that, to settle this question, we need a graph of potential working-age population over the period in question.
>>128220515
Are you a Crownie?
>muh pecking order
>being this cucked to what some lord and master thinks of them
yup

>>128220328
> Fast Food gibber = pay as Ambulance Driver.

To be fair both deal with the grossest aspects of humanity.

>>128220515
Literally my situation. Almost down to a T.

Fuck you lefties. I hope your shitty ghettos get riddled with roaches and bedbugs.

>>128220508
Yes, and making it more expensive to have employees will greatly speed up that process.

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>>128219594
Your assuming that no firm is powerful enough to influence price which is particularly untrue of the low-wage labour market. In many scenarios minimum wages can be more efficient than the wage set by a market with significant degree of monospony.

>>128220403
its on the up to date charts

>>128220642
No it is already settled as I've put the graph of labour participation rate falling - whether they are retiring or becoming NEETS is irrelevant as it invalidates the statistic of higher employment.

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>>128220403

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>>128220432
First of all you're retarded on many different wavelengths.

Your own chart shows >>128220105

that Seattle participation stayed steady and the unemployment rate plummeted.

That's #1 already you got fucking destroyed by me.

Secondly, the Seattle unemployment rate fell >>128219051

because employment boomed >>128219329

You are literally too retarded to understand that when unemployed get jobs, the unemployment rate falls. You are too fucking mentally handicapped to get this. Even 1st graders understand that when unemployed get jobs, the unemployment rate falls but you're just too retarded to get it.

Lastly, why the fuck would your right wing retard fake news talking point of muh discouraged apply when there are tons of jobs and the min wage is $15/hour?

You are beyond handicapped. You right wing retards literally cannot handle facts. You cannot understand that an unemployment rate falls because unemployed GET EMPLOYED.

>>128220842
[spoiler]
S
T
E
A
D
Y
[/spoiler]

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>>128220403
seatles employment growth is just a reflection of the national average.

>>128220515

So, your problem is that you can no longer lord it over service workers because you no longer make 3x more than them, only 2x more?

>>128218963
If the minimum wage really decreased unemployment, then why not have it set a 20$? 50$? 1000$? What's the ceiling? How does it manifest?
The ceiling is obviously unemployment, and you're just picking a situation where other factors overwhelmed the effect of the increase in the minimum wage. I can only think of really niche circumstances where a (small) increase in minimum wage would increase employment.

>>128220309
Which is why a perfectly competitor market model isn't used when you get int more advanced levels they use "Monopolistic Competivr Models" to make predictions and determine market reactions.

>>128221028
it lowers the buying power of everyone thereby devaluing the efforts those people made to get a 33$ an hour job.

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>>128220840
Yeah exactly. thanks for that chart. Right wing retards have a cancer in their brain that prevents them from understanding that when the unemployed get jobs, the unemployment rate goes down. It's literally impossible for right wing retards to understand this.

>>128217738
The employees at most fast food places are so stupid, you have to simply your order to bring down the risk of them getting it wrong. Every special request multiplies your risk of a wrong order

I like my coffee double double. My gf likes hers 1 cream 1.5 sugar. If we go to rhe mcdonalds in the black neighbourhood I insist we just order two double doubles to increase our odds at a correct order

Thats why:
A handful of $15 higher skills workers + self service terminals >>>>> a bunch of moronic $10 employees

>>128221095
>then why not have it set a 20$? 50$? 1000$? What's the ceiling?
See
>>128220730
for ceiling

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>>128220842
SED
TAY

>>128220699
I'd be making 2.75 cents more than minimum wage as a prison guard a stressful and sometimes dangerous and gross job.

If 15dollars ever passes in my state/ city. I'd just quit and move away before rent goes up and commodities go up.

>>128221382
see
>>128220989

seattles employment growth is just following the national trend. it hasnt really converged or diverged enough yet to say that the min wage is a good or bad thing.

everyone isnt making 15$ an hour yet and i think that only happens in 2021.

>>128221383
Just have 1 manager/terminal servicer to check the terminals work

>>128219851
A $15 minimum wage doesn't have that large of an effect on a city that is already expensive to live in.
At worst, it means the dumbest employees cannot be employed (and they will work or move to the outskirts as long as other cities are below $15)

Over time, businesses will look into innovations because they are worth investing in now. A $1000 computer will cost the same, whether you are in a $15 minimum wage city or not. And those computers are made by people in 3rd world countries working below that $15 rate, and designed by people that are way above that $15 rate. It will take time for things to change. Only a minimum wage that tracks well with the value wil keep that minimum wage rule looking good

>>128220750
Deceptive scaling doesn't count.

>>128221219

Maybe your job is a 50$/h job, but you've been cucked out of your share because you don't organize. It won't happen automatically, no matter what mainstream economists say.

Oh right, here's what they say:
>Let us now hypothesize that there is a process, a
>benevolent central authority perhaps, that, for any given prices p and aggregate wealth function w,
>redistributes wealth in order to maximize social welfare
The only way of making sure that the distribution of income and of weath matches the social welfare function, is to make sure there's such an BENEVOLENT DICTATOR (Mas-Colell)
>Verily, an invisible hand!

>>128221465
Maybe I am just being retarded but based on your graph employment is still a ceiling.

>>128213068
yeah but your income stays the same for a short period of time if you have an actual job making your purchasing power smaller you fucking tard leaf.

>>128221219
Good. They shouldn't be rewarded for being brown-nosing suckers. They made a bad decision and their feefees don't enter into it.
Also tell your gf to shave that nasty thing.

>>128221211
Except you can't really predict anything on account of not being able to quantify the monopolization factor a company has and what the company can successfully charge for its unique good or service. You'd also have to quantify all of the other competition nearby that company to determine where else consumers can turn to for similar goods and services; the more competition there is, the less you'll be able to charge successfully.

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>>128220989
>>128221607
So then u just admitted that the entire right wing corporate cuck argument that raising the minimum wage kills jobs is bullshit

You just destroyed yourself.

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>>128221530
What does that have to do with Seattle? Your own chart destroyed you.

You're a full blown retard.

Your own chart shows >>128220105

that Seattle participation stayed steady and the unemployment rate plummeted.


The US CLFPR is falling because of retiring boomers. WTF DID YOU THINK IT WAS?

Can you imagine so fucking mentally handicapped, that you can't even grasp the simple concept that when unemployed get jobs, the unemployment rate falls? >>128220328

>>128219051
Probably a salaried "manager" who makes 24,000 a year. `

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>>128221607
You retards promised me there would be job losses and that unemployment would skyrocket. Instead the Seattle economy is booming and has 2.8% unemployment. You right wing retard billionaire globalist corporate cock holsters got eternally btfo

>>128221853
yeah at the competitive wage, the wage that is actually paid (monospony wage) is far from that though and may be remedied by a minimum wage

>>128222414
Read the dates on the chart you fucktard

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>>128220432
The U4 includes discouraged right wing retard Trump voters who stopped looking for work. It's 4.5%. Are you seriously so fucking retarded that you don't know this?

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/U4RATE

You're getting annihilated here.

>>128222650
Confirmation bias EXPOSED

Anyone want to pay me $15/hr to tattoo a big fat red C on the cuck's face?

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>>128222650
You think there are no more baby boomers retiring anymore? AHAHA 10,000 everyday. That number is increasing now.

Seriously why did you think the CLFPR was falling? What is your pizzaspiracy?

And what does any of this have to do with Seattle?

Lol you're such a retard.

What does U4 measure? You're too retarded to even know. >>128222693

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>>128213068

stop making this complicated, leaf

you have a pie. everyone gets a piece of the pie in wages.

suddenly, your shittiest workers get a much larger slice. where does this money come from?

>>128222838
LOLZ u r destroyed bcuz in 2013-2015 b4 d minimum wage change it worked

Fucking KEK.

>>128221918
it was the best decision for the time and once the market adjusts the poor people are going to have the same buying power they had when they were poor but anyone who made an effort to get ahead now has less buying power.

i only make 14$ an hour but what is the point anymore when i can just take a lesser job when 15$ kicks in.

>>128222276
no im saying you dont know how to interpret charts properly.

seattles employment growth is moving in the same direction as the national average so its employment rate could easily be attributed with that. need to see how it averages out over time because a chart is not going to show you weather or not the wage hike cut down a bigger spike in growth.

>>128222552
its moving at the same rate as the entire country and it has always had below average unemployment. see this >>128220989
the growth momentum is coming from 2009.

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>>128213068

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>>128222738
Nice you forgot to proxy.

What does U4 measure retard? >>128222693

8 years of your retarded fake news discouraged talking point eternally btfo

>>128222693
>>128222693
>>128222693
>>128222693
>>128222693

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>>128222906
From the billionaire globalist overlords that you right wing retards worship, serve and obey.

Maybe McDonalds only makes $12 billion instead of $13 billion a year in profits? Would you Sheckelberg corporate cock holsters be okay with that?

>>128220105
>>128220105
>>128220105
>>128222414
>>128222414
>>128222414
>>128222414

2013-2015 KEK.

>>128222906

Yeah, don't make it complicated, anon. The Earth is flat and the Sun revolves around it

>>128222906
>be ontario leaf
>make 14$
>even if i get a raise to 15$ its pointless cause everyone gets a raise so im back to being a peasant
on the bright side i guess i can finally quit my job and not have to worry about a downgrade in pay.

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>>128222933
You continue to btfo the entire right wing retard corporate shill argument that raising the minimum wage kills jobs. It doesn't. That's all you're admitting here. You're making my argument for me.

Either you're so retarded that you don't understand this or you know you got btfo and have no argument.

>>128222906
>Conservative economics

>Illustrating a minimum wage increase as an increase in demand and prices on a s&d graph.
>No mention of the shift away from labor to capital that actually occurs.


Confirmed for failing Econ 101.

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>>128223094
What does the overall CLFPR in the USA have to do with Seattle and the minimum wage?

I think you're seriously mentally ill.

Seriously what is the disease in your mind that prevents you from understanding that when unemployed people get jobs, the unemployment rate goes down. What is your pizzaspiracy here?

>>128223298
why do most economists support a minimum wage?
>>128218740

Except that whatever demand stimulus might be caused by increased income is eliminated by the decrease in people with jobs.

So there will be less people with jobs even though those jobs pay more.

Libtards can't into economics as usual.

>>128213068
What is a crippling wage-price spiral, Alex?
>Stupid cunts, we've seen this before.

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>>128223426
Why most billionaires and globalists and therefore (((pol))) oppose it?

>>128223290

>increasing min wage is possible without increasing the cost of goods/services

oh really

I guess restaurants can pay bartenders and service staff more easily then!

>>128223180
its not 2021 yet and the entire population of seattle isnt making 15$ yet. didnt exactly see a spike in job growth either and whatever growth it did have was just part of the national job boom that started in 2009 you fucking retard.

>>128223495
yasssss amazon is hiring more software engineers capitalists BTFO

>>128223426
>why do most economists

No such thing. It's hard to find anything ''most economics'' actually agree on.

The most basic question is for example how high taxes should be, we are 200 years into economics and we still don't have an answer.

Anyone who says otherwise is a liar.

>>128221383

>1.5 sugars

>being picky to the point where you need 0.5 scoops

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>>128223585
Lol you already admitted that the entire right wing retard corporate shill talking point that min wage increase kills jobs is bullshit. You btfo yourself. It's over. You lost.

>>128223349
You are the dumbest person on this board KEK.

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>>128223585
>surely the job losses will begin any moment now, says increasingly nervous right wing retard corporate cock holster

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>>128223884
You got btfo badly and you know it.

Hey retard what does U4 measure?

>>128220432
>>128222693

Check out Australia's crazy minimum wage system.

https://www.fairwork.gov.au/awards-and-agreements/awards/list-of-awards

>>128223830
>>128223908
no job boom happened either you retard and seattle has been in a slow down this year.

>>128223495

Increased income for low-income workers means more consumption, not more saving or investment
More consumption, more jobs.

it's really simple

>higher min wage

>employers have less reason to hire

>cant stay in business if they have to spend more on basic labor

>business eats itself

>ensures we get automation sooner than later

>>128224037
C+I+G+X-M
>C
>I
>C
>I
>More

Kek I am dying LMAO. Proxy leaf.

gonna be 10$ for a fucking pint in toronto after this bullshit hits

>>128224037
more consumption means higher prices.

>>128224264
It's that much in Australia :(

>>128223680
>we are 200 years into economics and we still don't have an answer

Yet, we can predict the weather, and can make projections on climate. Can you guess what's the difference?
>Hint: non-equilibrium atmospheric models based on systems analysis concepts

Economists are proud of their maths, but it's the wrong kind of maths.

>>128224037

>Increased income for low-income workers means more consumption,

And less jobs, meaning less consumption. They hedge themselves out, zero sum.

>More consumption, more jobs.

See above, once they hedge themselves out, there isn't ''more consumption'', there's the same consumption, employed people have higher income but there are more unemployed that make zero.

You just created inequality. Great job.

>>128223830
>Please stop arguing, I want to win de argument an get ma feels
The minimum wage raise the bar for entry into the workforce, if you're not worth the minimum wage you will not be hired anywhere that pays legally, this will drive up unemployment among the unskilled. This is not yet reflected in the charts because it is not an instantaneous effect and can be mitigated by other factors. Your desperation is pathetic.

>>128223680
>It's hard to find anything ''most economics'' actually agree on
You can just poll them

>The most basic question is for example how high taxes should be
wtf no thats insanely complex a question. There are about as many ways to tax someone as there are dollars to tax and pretty much all of them have a multitude of different ways it could play out theoretically and even more practically.

Furthermore there isn't one answer to the question for one set of circumstances. Data on things like the dead-weight losses of certain taxes can vary significantly between jurisdictions depending on the intricacies of each tax code.

>>128224037
>People will have more money to create jobs because they'll be paying more to give people jobs

>>128224291

Because all factories are running at full production capacity ever, and economies of scale do not exist.

Sure.

Look up from your crossed lines. The world doesn't work like that.

>>128224367
>Can you guess what's the difference?

Economics is not a natural science.

Concepts like equilibrium, rational consumer and perfect knowledge do not exist in the real world. Hence the lack of definitive answers from economics.

It's chapter 1 of the Alchemy of Finance by no less than George Soros.

academic economics is not real economics; it's propaganda.

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>>128224035
As long as we agree that 50 years of right wing retard talking corporate shill talking points have been btfo then we're all good.

Seattle is booming actually

>>128224471
You just answered yourself then. There are no definitive answers on pretty much anything in economics.

Also, polls?

They polled economists on Brexit and 90% said ''recession within 2016 if that happens''.

Did it happen? Nope.

This is mainly because of the unscientific and heavily ideological nature of economics, no matter what mathematical sophistication they employ to give it a scentific credibility.

>>128224598
>Economics is not a natural science
That's not what Nwabudike Morgan told me.

>>128224393
Nice try Milton but employment soared and unemployment rate plummeted.

Seattle is the worst nightmare for you right wing retard billionaire globalist corporate shill cock holsters. $15/hour min wage, 2.8% unemployment, booming economy, workers with the power, employers have to compete for labor. It's your worst nightmare, bitch.

>>128224598

>anon believes (or believes I believe) George Soros is an authority on economics
TOP KEK

Who said "perfect knowledge"? Weather predictions are only good for 10 days.
But mainstream Economics KNOWS it's applying simplifications that are FALSE in the real world, gets BTFO by all sorts of Black Swan events (if they happen on a schedule, they're not exactly Black Swans), calls them Exogenous Shocks (failing to notice a chaotic behavioural pattern that would be obvious for anyone on Physics 201), and STILL thinks it has anything of value to contribute.

>>128224696
Leftwing tardonomics applied on country level has a 100% failure rate.

You can argue against neoliberalism and I'd even agree with it, but nothing has failed as consisently as leftwingers in economics.

>>128225070

C'mon pastabro, you never paid a dime in taxes.

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>>128225070
wrong again retard

>>128224524
It's either that or welfare. The former is taxable.

>>128225374
Failed again, retard. Get a brain, moron. Commies BTFO.

>>128225041

>anon believes (or believes I believe) George Soros is an authority on economics

He isn't. But he's right about the fallacies of economics.

>But mainstream Economics KNOWS it's applying simplifications that are FALSE in the real world, gets BTFO by all sorts of Black Swan events (if they happen on a schedule, they're not exactly Black Swans), calls them Exogenous Shocks (failing to notice a chaotic behavioural pattern that would be obvious for anyone on Physics 201), and STILL thinks it has anything of value to contribute.

This is Taleb's argument. It isn't really in contraddiction with Soros' one. Soros points out the discrepancy between economic theory and reality, Taleb points out the methodological fallacy of economics (abuse of Gaussian, normalized distributions and ignorance of fat tails).

Both are valid arguments when it comes to the limitation of economics. Those who actually buy too much into economics like the Cancuck in this thread are utter retards.

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>>128225458

>>128224849
>There are no definitive answers on pretty much anything in economics
But there are better answers. Its true that corporate taxes have far higher deadweight loss than land taxes, its true that protectionism rarely benefits any party and its true that in competitive markets price controls will have a net negative impact

>They polled economists on Brexit and 90% said ''recession within 2016 if that happens''.
I don't think its fair to compare speculation on an event on which no substantial prior evidence exists to reflections on hundreds of closely studied different scenarios.

>>128225640
Commies BTFO. Totally crushed. Go back to the breadline, moron. Pwned.

>>128225374
as it has been pointed out multiple times to you in these threads (yes you are that recognizable), labor force participation has collapsed under Obongo

this is partly due to retirees and partly due to people giving up on the job market

the first one isn't Obongo's fault, the latter is

also, you utter cretin, 15 million jobs, 80% of which were bartending isn't a great achievement

quality of jobs over quantity and Obongo failed, just like you did

>>128224589
Economies of scale do exist. It's basically the concept that you're able to lower your cost per unit by producing more, which is a thing. You're actually able to quantify your own business costs and such and that contrasts with economics which basically tries to quantify behavior.

>>128225374

>part time "jobs"

fuck off

>>128225402
Or you could just remove the government from the equation and let people prosper naturally.

>>128224696
that doesnt mean anything and you keep ignoring the fact that there was already a prevailing trend just like every other know nothing

>>128225070
>>128225458

Sweden's economic miracle in the 20th century has 70 years of disagreement with you.

Also, if for "left-wing" you're referring for the Hicksian cucking of Keynes that is usually called "Keynesian" economics, of the IS-LM+some fudging factors called "Neo-Keynesian", you're illiterate. Sorry.

>>128222933
>muh poor effort to get ahead
You're just whining now. Nobody owes you anything for your self-supreior muh virtue.
Indeed, why don't you? What do you owe your employer? Do you want to turn a free market into a feudal system?
>>128223620
>amazon is hiring more software engineers
>capitalists
>Federal government contractor
>capitalism
Wooooow.
>>128224393
If you're not worth the minimum wage -- wait, you're trusting stingy rich arseholes to judge that reasonably? If they want it done, there are only four legal possibilities: one, they pay minimum wage to have it done, they dump it on one of their employees, they do it their damn selves, or it doesn't get done.
>>128224598
>Concepts like equilibrium, rational consumer and perfect knowledge
are moral precepts pretending to be observations.

>>128225777
>its true that protectionism rarely benefits any party
infant industry is a commonly accepted argument for protectionism

free trade is great if your country produces something, if you aren't, you can't live of imports only

>I don't think its fair to compare speculation on an event on which no substantial prior evidence exists to reflections on hundreds of closely studied different scenarios.

It speaks volumes instead of the credibility of economists and their intellectual honesty.

Economics still struggles to explain events that have already happened due to the complexity of social interactions, predictions are utterly laughable and regularly very inaccurate.

>>128225777
>its true that protectionism rarely benefits any party
Every 1st world nation rose to power and prominence using protectionism and literally none have done the same under free trade.

>>128213068
$15 Canadian is only like three fifty American, right?

>>128226031
Sweden made it's money off of markets, and implemented socialist policies after it was already wealthy.

https://iea.org.uk/publications/research/scandinavian-unexceptionalism-culture-markets-and-the-failure-of-third-way-soc

Commies absolutely pwned. Pizzowned, morons.

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>>128225840
I love how you retards keep trying to deflect from the fact that Seattle has a $15/hour min wage and 2.8% unemployment rate.

The real unemployment rate is down to 4.3%. Even Trump embraced this number. He just told u retards that it was 42% because he knows that you're gullible morons who will believe anything.

What is your autism even about anymore?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Np40ayMJI1Y

As I already pointed out in this thread, but you're too retarded to get it. The U4 includes discouraged right wing retard Trump voters. It's 4.5%


https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/U4RATE

Quick retard tell me. What does U4 measure? >>128222693

>>128226257
Lol, Commies BTFO. Breadlines for all. What a joke. Where's your brain?

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>>128225956
95% full time actually. You retards should actually try bothering to do the actual research and pull up the jobs data instead of believing right wing retard fake news headlines from ZeroBrain or investors.com. Oh wait that's right, you retards don't know how to do research.

>>128225975
That's just silly.

>>128225869

Then, why would more consumption raise prices? Economies of scale resulting from extra production would keep prices stable or even reduce them.

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>>128226016
You keep ignoring the fact that entire fucking right wing corporate shill argument against raising the minimum wage is that it kills jobs and increases unemployment. It doesn't. Right wing economics is bullshit and a scam. Case closed kid. When you keep repeating that unemployment fell in Seattle with a $15/hour min, YOU'RE MAKING MY ARGUMENT. You fucking retard.

>>128226031
>Sweden's economic miracle in the 20th century has 70 years of disagreement with you.

So, you are one of those ''Sweden is socialist''?
Because a country where 99% of business is privately owned isn't socialist.

As for original Keynesianism, it met its checkmate in the 70s stagflation.

Meaning high inflation caused by the salary adjustment like our Cancuck friend is suggesting and no growth. I don't even dislike Keynes contributions but they have their limitations, mostly due to the fact that Keynes at least had the intellectual integrity to admit when he was wrong and change his position, while his successors are utterly delusional.

Either way we are still in a market environment, not socialist.

>>128226447
It works way better than taking the public's money and then giving it right back.

>>128226257

Take the true economic redpill, that the Fed Chairman dictates the success of the economy. Your squabbling about presidencies is shallow and meaningless.

Monetary policy trumps fiscal policy every time.

>>128226033
Fifth possibility, they pay you under the minimum wage and no-one gives a damn because you're entire sector doesn't give a damn. That's one of the mitigating factors, if the law denies you unemployment you work outside the law
>That never happens
Come to aus and work in hospitality.

>>128224904
Power to the people, surely raising the minimum wage will save them:http://money.cnn.com/2017/04/30/news/economy/venezuela-minimum-wage-hike/index.html

>>128226529
Starving in a bread line, lol. What a MORON. Poop Poopman crying!

>>128226033
im not saying anybody owes me anything, they are just fucking themselves over and taking everyone who earns more than them but still less than 15$ for the ride.

>>128226372

>vast majority of jobs created are full time

this alone tells you this data is full of shit.

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>>128226657
Economic policies matter. That's what right wing retards will never understand.

>>128226257
>The real unemployment rate is down to 4.3%.
Lol, you are beyond salvage. Even the BLS admitted there are millions that left the job market out of desperation.

Trump masturbates about the unemployment rate now that he's President like Obama did. He can keep doing that until 2020, if he doesn't deliver like Obongo, it'll cost him the re-election.

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>>128226675
>Whenever I'm losing I'll bring up Venezuela!

>>128226493
I don't disagree. I'm just saying economies of scale are a thing, which you said weren't. Tesla's new model whatever is ~$35k which is built at their new giant factories (read: economies of scale) and their older models (which were built more by hand) were ~$80k.

>>128226609
>As for original Keynesianism, it met its checkmate in the 70s stagflation.
Nixon went off the gold standard in 1970. The Texas Railroad Commission dropped the oil production quota in 1971. Stagflation didn't start really hopping until a few years later.
>>128226725
>earns
That's for us to decide, not the man whose boots you're licking, and not you.

>>128226827
Starving in a bread line has turned your brain to MUSH! OUCH! Commies BTFO, piss weak!

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>>128226868
The BLS put out other rates. You retards are just too fucked up to understand any of them so you think it's all a pizzaspiracy.

All measures from U3 to U6 plummeted under Obama.

>>128226918
>socialism works, but don't talk about venezuela
Which socialist hellhole should we discuss?

>>128226941
> The post war boom was real

LOL, Commies have no BRAINS!.

>>128226529
you keep ignoring the fact that seattle doesnt have 15$ wages for the entire city yet and there hasnt been a noticeable deviation from the national average you dumb nigger.

Larped long enough

>Note that in the baseline quarter, the state of Washington’s minimum wage was $9.32 per hour,
and we see that a large share of workers in this figure were earning between $9 and $10 per
hour.9
Six quarters later, we see a clear decrease in the share of Seattle’s workers earning
between $9 and $11 per hour, which would suggest that the minimum wage caused an upgrading
of worker’s wages. We see sizable gains in the share of workers earning between $11 and $16
per hour.10


The figure clearly shows a stark reduction in the number of workers earning between $9 and $10
per hour; there were 19,056 such workers in mid-2014 but only 7,330 at the end of 2015. The
number of workers earning between $10 and $11 per hour fell from 21,470 to 15,469.
As the number of workers earning under $11 shrank, the number earning $11-13/hour rose
significantly, and the number earning $13-19/hour rose enough to be noticeable on this chart.
The number of workers with average hourly wages in each increment above $19/hour shows very
little change.
A direct comparison of the size of the bars in Figure 4 shows that the total number of workers
represented declined over time. In other words, the reduction in the number of workers earning
under $11/hour exceeds the increase in workers earning $11-19/hour shown here. Over a time
period where the Seattle economy added tens of thousands of jobs, the number of workers
employed at single-location firms earning wages under $25 declined by 7,385, or about 3.3% of
the baseline number, with all of that change accounted for by a decline in workers earning under
$19/hour.

https://evans.uw.edu/sites/default/files/MinWageReport-July2016_Final.pdf

NUKE DROPPED

>>128226372
http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/25/news/economy/part-time-jobs/

kek

keep lying to yourself, see how many elections your side loses because you keep lying about the reality of middle America

>>128226139
>infant industry is a commonly accepted argument for protectionism
More so in the abstract though, there are actually very few real scenarios where imposing protectionist policy to protect such industries has actually worked out well (Finland protected its infant tech industry in the 90's). To be fair though I did say rarely.

>It speaks volumes instead of the credibility of economists and their intellectual honesty.
I'd have to see the poll but I'm guessing there was no uncertain option.

>>128226827

This graph is inaccurate.

https://www.thebalance.com/job-creation-by-president-by-number-and-percent-3863218

>remaining bluepilled and not realizing the standing of the dollar domestically and overseas decides all of this

have fun trying to promote your fiscal stimulus lad

>>128226918

>promises change

>does nothing

>shitty healthcare system that fines the poor

fuck onigger, worst president

>>128226941
>bootlicker
>we choose durrrr wages
ok so a retard faggot who films cops has been detected.

its too bad you niggers are going to earn the same as me soon.

>>128227086
First this was about minimum wage and Seattle $15. You retards got btfo on that. Then you brought up all of the US. Then you got btfo on that. So now you're bringing up Venezuela for no reason because you're retards

Why do you right wing retard billionaire globalist shills get so mad when hard working Americans get a little more in wages and when unemployment falls? It triggers you beyond repair.

>>128226609
I'd have to disagree with that analysis about Keynes. I think he was right about most everything and easily had the best contributions to the field but I don't think he properly considered how to counteract inflation or properly mitigate the risk.

>>128227246
>your side
Kill yourself then go back to plebbit.
>>128227295
We don't decide what you get. We decide whether you've earned them or just gotten them. There's a difference, and your daddy's special signature on your paycheck obligates us to exactly fuck-all.

Over a time
period where the Seattle economy added tens of thousands of jobs, the number of workers
employed at single-location firms earning wages under $25 declined by 7,385, or about 3.3% of
the baseline number, with all of that change accounted for by a decline in workers earning under
$19/hour.

WE WUZ EMPLOYED

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>>128227045
>you retards

>keeps lying

pic related, suck my dick and lose another election because you are a liar

>>128227376
You're Starving! You need bread, next week when the rations are in! Commies BEAT THE FUCK OUT.

>>128227376

>minimum wage is relevant in a developed city

http://www.heritage.org/jobs-and-labor/report/who-earns-the-minimum-wage-suburban-teenagers-not-single-parents

Over a time
period where the Seattle economy added tens of thousands of jobs, the number of workers
employed at single-location firms earning wages under $25 declined by 7,385, or about 3.3% of
the baseline number, with all of that change accounted for by a decline in workers earning under
$19/hour.
Over a time
period where the Seattle economy added tens of thousands of jobs, the number of workers
employed at single-location firms earning wages under $25 declined by 7,385, or about 3.3% of
the baseline number, with all of that change accounted for by a decline in workers earning under
$19/hour.
Over a time
period where the Seattle economy added tens of thousands of jobs, the number of workers
employed at single-location firms earning wages under $25 declined by 7,385, or about 3.3% of
the baseline number, with all of that change accounted for by a decline in workers earning under
$19/hour.

SOCIALISM BTFO

>>128227113
You already admitted that right wingers are liars and that min wage increases don't kill jobs. Your entire ideology is that hard working people should work for as little as possible so that the billionaire globalists you worship serve and obey can have it all.

And I'm not ignoring that. The top tier is $15/hour. You're acting like everything is $7/hour or something. The mid tier is $13/hour and going up every year. So retard. when do the job losses begin? 2073?

>>128227505
>surburban and rural retards vote to lower the wages of their children

Historically, every time minimum wage is increased in an area, cost of living for every level sees a significant increase. Raising the minimum wage doesn't help anyone but realtors.

>>128226929

By saying consumption would raise prices, anon said economies of scale don't exist.

>>128226609
>As for original Keynesianism, it met its checkmate in the 70s stagflation.

That's not original Keynesianism, that's Hicks' desperate attempt to reconcile Keynes with neo-classical economics. Even Hicks said he was sorry for it, in the end.

As for you, you now have a reading assignment. The original, not a textbook, nor anyone's desperate attempt of not having his convictions BTFO from under him.

http://cas2.umkc.edu/economics/people/facultypages/kregel/courses/econ645/winter2011/generaltheory.pdf

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>>128227246
95% full time job creation retard. >>128226372

Continue being triggered by the booming Obama economy you filthy Italian

>>128226941
Indeed I said in the 70s, not in 1970.

>>128227589
Undeniable complete evisceration of commies. Pizzowned, pwned pazoodled. DONE.

>>128227637

>local economies have cheaper goods
>most minimum wage workers are part time and secondary/tertiary earners
>this somehow equates to "suburban and rural retards"
>implying the value of labor gets voted on

You are actually retarded

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>>128227464
AHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAH

I FUCKING LOVE IT WHEN YOU RIGHT WING RETARDS BTFO YOURSELVES!!!!!!!!!!

You just posted a chart showing Obama 95% FULL TIME job creation. AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH

YOU FUCKING RETARD AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

>>128227753
E T E R N A L A N G L O

>>128227412
burger flippers are obviously just going to get them now that more burger flippers can afford better places to live rent goes up for everyone. just putting the 10$ to 15$ crowd back into the lowest rungs of the workforce while increasing its size.

>>128227806

>taking the ultimate bluepill and blaming the recession on presidency

do you blame the dot com bubble on clinton?

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>>128227505
>heritage foundation

You right wing retards really aren't trying to hide what billionaire globalist shillcucks you are.

Holy shit, look at how much 2.8% unemployment and $15/hour min wage triggers you right wing retards.


When the billionaire globalist shillcucks of (((pol))) fight this hard against raising the minimum wage, you know it's a good thing for workers.

>>128227753

>Now I know what anon means by australian shitposting

WEW

>>128228015
LOL, socialism OWNED. Piss weak! It's done, over, you lose, MORON! Where's the bread?

>>128227806
Over a time
period where the Seattle economy added tens of thousands of jobs, the number of workers
employed at single-location firms earning wages under $25 declined by 7,385, or about 3.3% of
the baseline number, with all of that change accounted for by a decline in workers earning under
$19/hour.

U R LYING TYRONE IS A SOFTWARE ENGINEER NOW

>>128227598
i never agreed to any of that you retard. job losses happen when everything is 15$ and if it isnt job losses then its just another increase to your cost of living which you are also too retarded to consider.

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>>128227958
So you admit 95% of Obama job creation was full time?

Lol the dot com bubble is honestly one of my favorite right wing retard memes. Right up there with 42% unemployment and 95 gorillion unemployed.


Lol right wing retards with their most retarded meme ever. Muh dot com. Who programmed all u retards with this meme?

The Based Bill Clinton economy created 23 million jobs. How many are you claiming were lost in the first 6 months of 2001 because of muh

dot com?

Bush had much faster computers, internet and "dot coms". He still crashed the economy.

>>128227251
Not really. China has been running a massive infant industry policy for decades, that's why their success.
If a Western company wants to build a factory in China, it has to build it with government ownership or participation. That is protectionism. In any moment the Chinese government could throw out Westerners and it'd still have the industry.

Look at Africa. The failed development is mostly because it doesn't produce much. When it does, it's because of integrated supply chains with Western industries, which isn't even trade; they aren't developing, they are mostly getting used.

Today's economy is far too complicated to simply think of protectionism in terms of tariff barriers. Most happens around them due to WTO limiting them.

>>128228073
Lol, EVISCERATED. Owned, holy COW! Commies Gadoosh'd and flush'd!

>>128228091
Obamaleaf cant respond to this because it btfo him too hard his little anus hurts

>>128228186
He thought he had defeated the eternal anglo at shitposting

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>>128228091
I have honestly never seen right wing retard billionaire globalist corporate cock holsters more triggered by $15/hour min wage and 2.8% unemployment.

You retards aren't even trying to hide what corporate shills you are

Nothing triggers you more than hard working Americans earning a decent wage. I love exposing you for what you are.

>>128228015

>heh you get facts that arent in dispute from a right wing source now i dont have to challenge my point of view

Nobody is arguing over who earns minimum wage, retard, these are well established facts. By the way, the report was generous in its assessment and gave a 5% estimation, as opposed to the usual 3%

>>128223043
>Implying the moment that mcdonalds sees its profits drop, they don't increase pricing - like they have been subtly doing every couple of months here in fucking Canada.
A double cheeseburger is 2.29 here in Toronto.

>>128223680
Economics from the austrian school (the only non socialists school) agree that the taxes should be high as 0.

>>128228318
You've been GADOOSH'D. BTFO Forever! Socialism confirmed DEAD and BURRIED!.

>>128228318

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHNfvJc99YY

>Over a time period where the Seattle economy added tens of thousands of jobs, the number of workers
employed at single-location firms earning wages under $25 declined by 7,385, or about 3.3% of the baseline number, with all of that change accounted for by a decline in workers earning under $19/hour.

>>128228120

>increasing mimimum wage is bad, if it's not jobs losses then it's something else I don't know what it could be but I'll deflect and say it's your fault for not having the imagination to make my arguments for me
>but it's bad, because it's LEFTIST

A FUCKING LEAF, EVERYONE

>>128227376
>when unemployment falls

Because most businesses don't have any more money in the payroll for new people especially if they have to pay them all more. So the ultimate result of raising wages without doing anything to limit the profits of companies does is lower the amount of employers seeking labor.

>>128228279
It's like the time he got btfo by the eternal Anglo for saying bill clinton was responsible for the worldwide market bump lol

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>>128228120
>job losses

>>128227806
Do you even into economics? This debate has been had and done a billion times over, during obamas presidency, and when Trump was running still.
No respectable economist thinks that the the rise in employment was thanks to Obama, it was very obviously a recession that happened during Bush's presidency, which was projected to end and start returning to normal regardless of who was president after him.
Glad to know you can at least comprehend a graph though, retard.

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>>128228186
>>128228279
>>128228417
>>128228424
lol u shills got btfo so hard

You reek of desperation.

Look how autistic you people are.

This right wing retards just types up some bullshit and u think he has an argument.

I'm exposing you for the billionaire globalist shillcucks that you are.

You're not even hiding it anymore. You're nothing more than corporate cock holsters.

Nothing triggers you more than hard working Americans making a decent wage.

All I have to do is bring up Seattle $15/hour min wage and 2.8% unemployment and you filthy little shills are triggered beyond repair

Hard working men and women earning a decent wage and having economic power. That is truly your worst nightmare, isn't it you disgusting shills?

>>128228429
Cost of living.
Historically cost of living has shot up every single time min wage goes up

>>128227797
So is it or is it not suburban teenagers earning minimum wage?

>>128228438
Employment boomed >>128228486

>>128228781
The poopanada poopunist has been PIZOOPED! Commies BTFO!

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>>128227404
Keynes was a great contributor specifically because he admitted when he was wrong, there's a specific quote from him mentioning it.
"When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?"

>>128227806
pic related

>>128228859
>So is it or is it not suburban teenagers earning minimum wage?

It is. I used greentext to quote the article he didn't read

>>128228781
You got btfo hard by the eternal Anglo man, it's kinda sad

>>128228848

Correlation is not causation.

>>128228864
>part time
Employment boomed
Retard
Full time employment didn't even come close to pre-recession levels

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>>128228424
does this right wing retard actually think that he has an argument?

$15/hour min wage, 2.8% unemployment why does this trigger you so much?

Hey why did you dodge before when I massacred you? Do you know what U4 measures?


Remember this? You dodged like a bitch.

>>128220432
>>128222693

Hey retard what does U4 measure? https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/U4RATE

>>128227686
Right, just giving a bit of color. Keynesianism didn't die, it was murdered OR it ran out of gas.
>>128227853
All I hear is some chicken who's so fucking insecure about themselves that they need to be validated by their daddy boss telling them how much better they are than someone else.
Most people don't give a shit about your little pecking order. They want to work and be left the fuck alone.

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>>128228781
https://evans.uw.edu/sites/default/files/MinWageReport-July2016_Final.pdf

Over a time
period where the Seattle economy added tens of thousands of jobs, the number of workers
employed at single-location firms earning wages under $25 declined by 7,385, or about 3.3% of
the baseline number, with all of that change accounted for by a decline in workers earning under
$19/hour.

BRITANNIA RULE THE WAVES

>>128228956
Correlation is a hint at causation when it happens every fucking time you idiot

>>128228147
>So you admit 95% of Obama job creation was full time?
you haven't been thourougly disproven

even your ''thanks Obama chart'' says it wasn't

liar
liar
liar

>>128228915
Remember that time you posted a chart showing Obama 95% full time job creation and you btfo yourself?

That was fucking hilarious.

>>128227464
>>128227806

>>128219851
You just BTFO of yourself. $15 minimum started January 1, 2017, yet you're claiming to know its effects? How does that make >>128219329 chart relevant at all when $15/hr started 5 months ago?

>>128228394
doesn't help when your 0% tax rate doesn't pay the army and you get invaded

>inb4 muh private militias

>>128218183
The irony is thicc.

>>128229000
Calorie deprivation! Not enough bread lines! Your brain didn't grow! Commies have no BRAINS!

>>128229076

Explain the mechanism. That's your causation.

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>>128228932
$15/hour min wage, booming economy, 2.8% unemployment. THANKS SEATTLE! I'll just keep triggering you.

Does the retarded anglo know what U4 measures?

He dodged like a bitch when I massacred him.


>>128220432
>>128222693 (You)

Hey retard what does U4 measure? https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/U4RATE

>>128229008
I think it was more of an opportunistic murder by the market fundamentalists.

>>128229000
What is cost of living?
Like cmon nigger, I made over 15$ in Vancouver and I lived in a shithole side apartment and barely afforded car payments, struggling to stay alive without digging myself further in debt. I make only a little more and I live up North now, and I'm pulling in 1-2 grand extra to toss around every month.

>>128229123
you're spending a lot of calories trying to shitpost and provoke people who know better. it's been a long thread and i'm getting really sleepy, don't you think it's time for a nap? really tired, i think we should go to bed. so dozy i'm off for my nap now.

>>128227376
I was arguing about the minimum wage fucktard. You're using Seattle as an example and we demonstrated it's unemployment rate is following the trend of the rest of the US economy, the city does not exist in a vacuum.
By all means show us how wonderful venezuela is though, I bet you're dying to blow us on that topic, just like you've blown everyone else in the thread.

>>128228486
that is just momentum from a trend that started in 2009 you retard. still unproven how this will do when there is an economic plateau or downturn.

>>128229217
When correlation is high enough you can see natural trends that occur with r squared values.
The fact that it occurs every single time implies causation

>>128229279
A wheelbarrow of cash! I'm RICH! Gonna buy me some BREAD! Commies Pizzoodled!

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>>128229123
which doesn't exist in the fucking world

for 7 our of 8 years under Obama, the jobs created were part time more than full time

only in 2016 there were more full time

and even those which were full time, they were fucking bartending

>>128228915
>>128228915
>>128228915

7 years of fucking part time jobs and 1 year of full time bartending?

Mission accomplished Mister Leaf

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>>128229037

July 2016? AHAHAAHAHAHA

Did you really think that was going to save you?

It's June 2017 lol.

I'm giving you the data.

>>128228486
>>128219051
>>128219329
>>128223349

$15/hour min wage, 2.8% unemployment,
booming wages, booming employment.

Why does this trigger you so much retard?

Hey dumbass remember when you dodged this like a bitch?

What does u4 measure? You can't answer can you?


>>128220432
>>128222693 (You)

Hey retard what does U4 measure? https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/U4RATE

>>128229037
>>128228894
>>128228459
>>128228417
>>128228318

COLONISED.

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>>128229461
RIGHT WING RETARDS STILL THINK OBAMA TOOK OFFICE IN 2007 AHAHAHAHHAHHAHAAAHAHAHAHAH HOLY SHIT YOU CAN'T MAKE UP THIS AUTISM

>>128217513
I fucking love these things. 20 seconds to order and pay, sit down until your number shows up on the screen and pick up your shit.

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>>128229461
Why do right wing retards think all service jobs are waiter/bartender?

Right wing retards don't realize that engineers, architects, computer programmers, IT, bankers, real estate agents, doctors, dentists, teachers, mortgage brokers, insurance brokers, truck drivers, plumbers, cops, actors, athletes, are all service jobs.

>>128229409
Ontario has a retarded cost of living I know that for a fact, this nigger knows nothing about economics obviously, and when cost of living continues to rise in Ontario this faggot is gonna vote for a $20 min wage next, and devalue our dollar more

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>>128229461
>for 7 our of 8 years under Obama, the jobs created were part time more than full time

Are you fucking retarded? 95% of Obama job creation was full time.

Here's full time.

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>>128228165
>Not really. China has been running a massive infant industry policy for decades, that's why their success.
Their success is having shitloads of people and no labour protections. Chinas tariffs and poor protection of property rights have only worked against foreign investment and further growth.

>The failed development is mostly because it doesn't produce much
They aren't failing though, thats just what developing economies look like. GDP growth has been insane in recent years and considering their coming boom in population its probably only going to accelerate.

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>>128229461
>>128229659
Here's part time

Now do you see what a retard you are?

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>>128229483
Hey retard, mind telling me about those full time bartending jobs?

>>128229265
My personal hunch says that peak oil had a strong hand in it as well.
>>128229673
>poor protection of prpoerty rights
Intellectual property is such a meme they had to pass a law to force it into a market. Go fuck a jellyfish.

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>>128229461
HE GETS HIS INFORMATION FROM ZEROBRAIN AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHA

What did I tell you retards?

>95% full time actually. You retards should actually try bothering to do the actual research and pull up the jobs data instead of believing right wing retard fake news headlines from ZeroBrain or investors.com. Oh wait that's right, you retards don't know how to do research. >>128226372

95% full time>>128229659
5% Part time>>128229709

>>128213068
>We study the impact of the minimum wage on firm exit in the restaurant
industry, exploiting recent changes in the minimum wage at the city level.
The evidence suggests that higher minimum wages increase overall exit
rates for restaurants. However, lower quality restaurants, which are already
closer to the margin of exit, are disproportionately impacted by increases to
the minimum wage. Our point estimates suggest that a one dollar increase in
the minimum wage leads to a 14 percent increase in the likelihood of exit
for a 3.5-star restaurant (which is the median rating), but has no discernible
impact for a 5-star restaurant (on a 1 to 5 star scale)

http://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Publication%20Files/MW_Exit_7a89f82f-b2fa-42f2-9a0e-f8a61e95b679.pdf

>>128223043
>Maybe McDonalds only makes $12 billion instead of $13 billion a year in profits?

Will never happen, what will happen is that prices will increase to make that sure that that 13B remains at 13.

Sick of everything being so fucking expensive, luckily this insanity is quarantined in Ontario. Hope this blows up in your stupid faces.

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>>128229542
HE STILL CAN'T ANSWER WHAT DOES U4 MEASURE AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

$15/hour min wage, 2.8% unemployment,
booming wages, booming employment.

Why does this trigger you so much retard?


What does u4 measure? You can't answer can you?

>>128220432
>>128222693 (You) (You)

Hey retard what does U4 measure? https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/U4RATE

>>128229844
BURGERED,

>>128229759
I'm talking about physical property

>>128229607
>implying that IT industry and medical field haven't been shrinking, pipeline service jobs were low and now topping out below what they should be
And you wonder why we call you a nigger

>>128228567
Obama did what every democrat/Keynesians has done. Prolonged a recession/prevented full recovery by government over action.

Also, the $15 minimum wage argument is retarded. Obviously creates unemployment, capital flight and inflation but almost more importantly prevents anyone who can't produce an immediate return on $15 to be permanently unemployed, unable to gain the necessary skills for higher paying jobs in the future.

>>128229483
At what rate are the low skilled workers leaving your city? Are the poor now leaving to locales where they can legally sell their labor?

>>128213068
Workers are not an elastic good. If there are ways to avoid paying for them, the employer will certainly do so.