六四 June 4th

>>128115126
What was the most american view held by the protestors?

>>128115328
Not giving a fuck what the government tells them to do,basically

>>128115126
aww can't even wait till June 4th to make a thread? You HK separatists are cute

>>128115126
>opens wikipedia
>nobody actually died in tiananmen square

Honestly if they did nothing it would've caused a civil war and would've killed millions of people.

People honestly think you can flip a light switch and democracy comes.

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tfw hong kong is absorbed into china, becomes just a regular chinese city like shenzen taijin xian etc

tfw taiwan gets absorbed into china too, thinks the world will do anything but write angry blogs

>>128117815
Do you know anyone that died?

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>>128121123
>taiwan gets absorbed into china too

Mfw China wants to be hardcore but America won't let them.

>>128119554
>citation needed
>>128120621
Nobody expected democracy overnight,the idea of democracy was slowly being instilled into the nation for years already.
In fact it wasn't even the reason for the protests to blow up in scale,it was because of the government not responding to unending pleas from students and some other people that they feared democracy would never come if they don't force conversation with them

>>128121555
america getting involved in a taiwan-china war would make the iraq/afghan wars look like strategic genius, it'd be great

>>128121596
>Chinese government officials have long asserted that no one died in the Square itself in the early morning hours of June 4, during the 'hold-out' of the last batch of students in the south of the Square. Initially foreign media reports of a "massacre" on the Square were prevalent, though subsequently journalists have acknowledged that most of the deaths occurred outside of the Square in western Beijing. Several people who were situated around the square that night, including Jay Mathews,[b] former Beijing bureau chief of the Washington Post, and Richard Roth, CBS correspondent,[c] reported that while they had heard sporadic gunfire, they could not find enough evidence to suggest that a massacre took place on the Square itself. Records by the Tiananmen Mothers suggest that three students died in the Square the night of the Army's push into the Square.[164] Democracy activist Wu Renhua asserted that the government's discussion of the issue was a red herring intended to absolve itself of responsibility and showcase its benevolence. Wu said that it was irrelevant whether the shooting occurred inside or outside of the Square itself, as it was still a reprehensible massacre of unarmed civilians.[165]

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>>128121820
>Wikipedia
>doesn't even read the shit he copy-pastes from Wikipedia to use as "proof"

>>128122160
>still calling it the tiananmen square incident
>at least whoever who started using 6/4 had the wits to know it's a beijing wide affair and after all, not as simple as students asking for democracy

>>128121804
It would be a conventional war centred around naval and air action, things that America is unparalleled at.

>>128122589
Anyone that bothered to look into June 4th knows the context is larger than simply what physically happened in Tiananmen Square on June 4th. The name people refer to it by isn't important.

>>128121294
nope, but my father did try to go there protesting, I'm glad he didn't though

>>128122601
>things that America is unparalleled at
such as medium-range ballistic missiles?

>>128123175
then you'll also have to acknowledge that it wasn't a coordinated movement at all (social media wasn't a thing at the time)
people were protesting for varying reasons, either related to democracy or not
and as you know with every non-coordinated movement, looters/ rioters/ various troublemakers usually weasel their way in (look at all the leftie protests in america, usually a few dies)
so the only conclusion is, it was a lot less romantic, but instead more total chaos (also some army personnel died, suggesting some "protesters" are for some reason, armed)

>>128123548
And countermeasures.

>>128115126
jesus christ, that guy has been standing there for 28 years?

>>128123716
>not knowing Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty
it's much easier, cheaper and more efficient to make more missiles than making ABM or high energy laser, in other words, taiwan is a lost cause, support free tibet movement instead

>>128123998
>taiwan is a lost cause

In your dreams. Whatever wonder weapon you think China has America has it in better quality and larger numbers.

>>128123648
It isn't,never said it was
I don't disagree with you in that the waters were probably a lot murkier than what the casual onlooker from 30 years into the future would believe.But that still isn't a good reason for martial law and deploying militia to the Square AFTER a large portion of protesters were ready to pack their shit up and leave because Zhao Ziyang told them to,among many other fuckups during the protests prior to Tiananmen. And that shit's only what the government admits to doing. Consider this,If the soldiers were only shooting to defend themselves from civilians that were armed for no good reason,why aren't he government celebrating June 4th and the soldiers that gave their lives to stop a riot that could possibly lead to CPC being overthrown and the nation crumbling,but instead censoring every piece of information there is about the casualties that occurred that night,for 20+ years no less? Perhaps force was needed to stop some of the more dangerous rioters that attended the protests back then and to maintain order,but the government's toward the incident in the aftermath seems too suspicious to just leave be.

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>>128115126
Probably a CIA operation, like the TPAJAX Project. Sadly we will need to wait until 2039 to know for sure, when the documents will be unclassified. Also operation Yellowbird.

>>128124945
>the government's attitude* toward

>>128124614
>In your dreams
and in your dream, americans will defend taiwan at all costs, they aren't even willing to sell not-so-outdated weapons to taiwan. And if you love taiwan so much, why don't you go back?

>>128123648
People were able to coordinate 100 years ago, you just spent a bit more time organising the day you were going to do shit on. When Hu Yaobang died there was sometime in between his death and the start of the sit in. So you could begin talking to other groups in those days leading up to the sit in. Organise a big sit in.

Looters usually make up the group. Why does it even have to be romantic when your looking at the actually mix of statistics of those who participated? Why is chaos the opposite of romantic?

>>128115126
Comparing what happened to Russia and what happened to China, they did nothing wrong.

They also probably saved between several thousand and millions of of people.

>>128123371
He should have gone so you'd never exist.

Daily reminder that there was no actual massacre in Tiananmen Square and that the name "Tiananmen Square Massacre" is false.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/8555142/Wikileaks-no-bloodshed-inside-Tiananmen-Square-cables-claim.html

>>128125550

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/wibailoutpeople.org/2017/04/21/wikileaks-confirms-it-tiananmen-square-massacre-was-a-myth/amp/

>wikileaks confirmed there were no deaths, just soldiers firing warning shots
>Trump himself called it a riot

>>128122601
There would not be any war, because there is no sentiment in Taiwan to support invasion of China by force, they stand to gain too much problems even if it's successful.

However, a diplomatic unification is what China goes for, in a same manner as HK and Makao.

Kuomintang is prointegration, and most people wouldn't mind if China wouldn't meddle with internal politics too much too quickly.

>>128125640

>"Not one U.S. newspaper, television or radio outlet has reported or commented on these cables released by WikiLeaks, nor on the Telegraph story about them. It is as though they fell into a bottomless chasm."

>>128125426
not necessarily, there were warnings after warnings before tanks started rolling in, if he was that stupid and stubborn, I would just call it natural selection

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>>128123548
>medium-range ballistic missiles

tfw the PRC is using the Norks as a guinea pig

>hey, I got an idea... we violate treaties testing, right? WTF, LET'S LET KIMMY DO IT HAHAHAHAHA

>>128125810
I don't think it's possible, there's way too many loop hole scams at play. Especially between Taiwan and China, my feeling was that Taiwan is a nifty tax haven for Chinese and China is a great source of cheap factories for Taiwan.

No one will give that up without a fight and a war will just send everything sideways for no bigger gain than having different government governing.

They've paid each other off thoroughly.

>>128125550
>>128125640
>>128125814
It was just another CIA operation to bring CCP down, the real number is much lower than what western media reported it to be, and remember Mao killed 60 zillion chinese during cultural revolution, many such cases

>>128126122
PRC never signed the treaty

Wonder if tankman is still alive after all these years

>>128125640
>>128125550

If Kremlin mouthpiece says it, surely it's true!

>>128124945
>but the government's toward the incident in the aftermath seems too suspicious to just leave be
which is why conspiracy theories can go wild
cia plants (to destabilize country) or ccp plants (to tarnish movement) causing all these

>>128125196
the narrative

>>128127407
Ok,you've lost me. What's your point?

>>128127809
there are 2 theories involving the deep state
1. trouble was stirred by the cia in cooperation with some media
arm a few protesters, have moles in the pla, fuck it up a little and bam, incident
media hype it up, sanctions, embargos and hopefully dissolution of the ccp
these activities is totally not surprising for them, considering this was a thing (regarding tibet, which trump stopped)...
https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1964-68v30/d337

2. power grab and maintenance by ccp
considering ccp's mentor was the cccp, disinformation and "immoral" tactics against own population are in play
fuck up democracy demonstrations, people associate it with violence and chaos, win

and one more slightly more innocent, but funny
3. china police/ military sucks
a simple chimpout by a few out of control rioters evolved into mini civil war due to miscommunication and incompetence

>>128128776
Thanks for posting valid theories.The point still stands that people died in Tiananmen,and we want to know exactly what happened and why,ideally by having the CPC come out and explain themselves,but that's probably not going to happen during this century or so.