Is gender a spectrum?

>>127899747
There is only one gender, Women are property

Maybe?

By far the most common genders are XX and XY but weird disorders and conditions can give you things like XXXY and other wacky combos.

You still can't choose your own gender.

>>127899747
No, it is a social construct

no.

>>127899747
If 99% of people are at one end of the "spectrum" it's not a spectrum. It's a bi modal distribution with a couple of outliers.

>>127900181
this

a good example I use on people is saying that some people are born without limbs or with extra limbs, we call those birth defects, we don't say that humans have a "spectrum" of limbs

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>>127899747
No.

>>127899747
not really no
99.99% of people (even most trannies) are men or women. Maybe there are some people who are unironically non binary but they're a fraction of a percent and you can't say that because that tiny bit exists then the rule that's true for the vast majority is wrong.

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>>127900306
That's actually a pretty damn persuasive example

Any proof for any of this? I've been searching don't find very much.

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>>127899747
yes, because sexual traits are subject to evolution just like anything else. anyone who says sex or gender is a spectrum is an uneducated moron. Anyone on pol who says women are mentally inferior and otherwise different are hypocrits of they also meme gender as something not real, as if minds are sexually dymorphic they too will be subject to the same mutations and quirks.

these attitudes are only common because muh dugeneracy and retarded leftie snowflakes. anyone with an ounce of understanding of evolution knows distinct categories are hard to come by in the whole tree of life.

>>127900479

tell me about it, I was in a political science class with everyone ganging up on me when I came up with it and it shut all thier asses right up

>>127900508
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender#Gender_taxonomy

>>127899747

no

men have a dick

women have a uterus

without those two things, humanity ceases to exist. there is no hybrid male/female.

>>127899747
No.

There are an (effectively) infinite amount of genders. This is why the concept of 'gender' is useless, and we should stick to sex.

Educate yourselves.

>>127899747
sexuality is a spectrum everyone is on it
even (You) might like it if you sit up on it

>>127900306
>>127900181
>>127900479
and yet that is bullshit. They where born without limbs, all traits are inheritable. you can say we don't describe it that way, but that is arguing semantics at that point, evolution and mutation occur and sexual dimorphic traits do not have a special exemption, nor do traits that appear negative somehow don't count. all traits are created equal. It's the environment that determines usefullness.

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If you think it id please kill your self.

>>127899747

Hold up, you're going to have to define your terms.

Gender, the made up definition that means whatever LGBTWTFBBQ wants it to mean at any given time?

Or Gender, which means biological sex?

Because the first one is not real, it is literally a subculture's social construct. I guess they often talk about how it has a spectrum, but since it isn't real, who gives a shit?

And the second one is a definitive no. There are males, there are females, and there is nothing in between. Hermaphrodites, and non-XY/XX chromosomal groupings are not a part of healthy human biology and therefore do not constitute a gender.

>>127899747
No. You're either male or female, but people of either gender can have elements of the other. That doesn't make you some kind of in-between gender, though. You're still either a guy or a girl.

>>127900860
>There is no hybrid male/female.

Yet

>>127899747
If you define gender as a set of personality traits common to a biological sex then yes. That's why we can say that a woman is a butch because she likes work about raw strenght or a man is a sissy for caring a lot about his manicure. However, that doesn't change the fact that a personality trait is either male or female, so the spectrum is just about how many male or female traits someone has. As you may have noticed, that is only about personality, saying your personality is female doesn't change your biological sex. I don't understand why people care about gender so much since the only concrete thing is the biological sex. It doesn't matter if you act like a faggot, you are still a man. Too bad that the 'cure' for this is about pretending that reality is subjective and chopping your dick off and pumping yourself full of hormones. It's like curing a hypochondriac by giving them the illness they think they have.

Arguing in terms of gender is where the right went wrong. We should ignore gender and just talk about biological sex.

>>127901044
neither are real you moron, theyre both convinient words that categorize a bunch of like things, not rules that restrict nature

>>127899747
Spectrum of faggotry
Penis- man
Vagina- woman
No dick- Canadian

>>127900860
>men have a dick
guess casteration victims aren't men?
>women have a uterus
gues those born with atrophyed or no uterus are not women then? what are they? men?

>>127900309
>that pic
if it's male on one side and female on the other it doesn't change the gender

>>127900902
it's not arguing semantics, a "spectrum" distribution and "bimodal" distribution imply completely different things, also your posts are so full of pseudo-intellectual gobble-de-gook it is almost impossible to even understand what you are saying

>>127900902

spoken like a true faggot snowflake

"i'm desirable and beneficial ... somehow"

Gender cannot be a spectrum because gender does not exist.

>>127899747
No.

His name was Seth Rich.

>>127901204

>words aren't real
>biological sex isn't real

You're literally retarded. And I assure you, the retardation you experience is quite real.

No. Barring legitimate physical and genetic defects

There are men and there are women.

Masculinity and femininity exist on a spectrum and all people display a mixture of both. And gender roles do vary to a degree between cultures.

But gender itself is fixed. There are males and there are females. That's it.

Everything is rooted in biology. Does the male sparrow gather food while the female warms the egg because it is a "social construct" for them to do so?

Does the female lion hunt the gazelle while the male lazes about because of the patriarchy?

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>>127900622
FUCK ANIME
THIS IS POL FOR FUCKS SAKE

>>127899747
Is there a letter BETWEEN x and y?

even more then that , gender is a behavioral expression of and identity based on the person's culture .
since each person behaves differently and his life and thus influence from culture is different then we can conclude that each person's gender is distinct .

therefor there's no point in even talking about gender and since genders are associated with sex why not just talk about something empirically measurable like a person's sex instead ?

>>127900622
Did you know that, historically, when Jews would criticize the host nation (in order to subvert the traditions and morals of the social hierarchy as well as allow forward advancement for fellow Jews) they would place the critique within a "scientific" framing.
This is because science is very clearly the modern form of rational thought, logic, reason, and accuracy. If cleverly described enough, any critique could remain unquestioned. It's science, after all!!

>>127899747
Yes, it's a very very very very limited spectrum, so limited that it only allows 2 values.

>>127899747
Is being dead or alive a spectrum.
I suppose if I have impaled you, and you're dying but not dead yet that would make you...
....still alive.

Binary

>>127901412
clearly you are a shit troll, but since I think it is important to understand that this response exemplifies a misunderstanding of "principle vs circumstance"

(this is on gay marriage but the idea is still rleevant)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMYBl2uzXEw

I wish we could break past the bickering and start focusing on what is actually ON the X and Y chromosomes, it's so fascinating.

Multuple MAOA variants, neanderthal dystrophin, Y-DNA A00, etc.

>>127899971
Having one or more Y makes you a man. Not having any Y makes you a woman. Still two genders.

>>127901851
>lets abandon science
may as well let the jews win you retard. without it we are just pompous psuedointellectual animals.

>>127901805
you are wrong, there is a point in discussing gender with impreical measurements. You are correct that most of my political leaning peers have been swallowed by irrelevant genderqueer bullshit.

the whole point of a spectrum in the first place, is it's a spectrum! not a fucking checkerbord of distincts.

>>127901940
>durr political debate
no. gay marriage is a human right nigger.
principles and circumstances are irrelevant here. we are discussing science.

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>>127899747
Does this look like a spectrum to you?

>>127899747
No, but gender dysphoria (a strong desire to e the opposite sex) exists and is also, ironically enough, proof that gender is not a spectrum.

>>127902278
>this comment

thus proving that you are indeed a shit troll

it's a shame, I love a good argument

No it's not, being an very effeminate man doesn't make someone a genderfoxqueer demifluid girl, it just makes them a massive faggot. A massive faggot is still a man

>>127902080
you'll never get anyone to do this, they only care about gender and chromosomes so much as it props up their fragile world beliefs, they are sexist as fuck, but how many of these people who think women are mentally inferior do you actually believe are interested in the scientific rational for such a thing? of the additional questions and discoveries it poses?

pol is one big echochamber

>>127902126
guess that means you better change the birth certificate of everyone with androgen insensitivity

You either have a penis or a vagina
>>127902306 Is correct as well.

>>127899747
roygbiv is a spectrum and each one has a name

what are the names of the genders in the gender spectrum?

>>127902449
no you don't, or you would reply within the context of the topic, isntead of trying to politicise

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>>127902306
>proof that gender is not a spectrum
mental illnessis not proof of anything

i.e. schizo's aren't proof that all human's have multiple personalities

>>127902126
Prenatal androgen insensitivity causes fetuses to develop into XY females.

>>127901446
shut up shut up!!!

>>127902306
its proof of the opposite actually, because those with gender dysphoria have a list of other feminine mental attributes, including the ability to pick up and recieve certain pheremones associated with women.

I identify as a man who feels that people who think gender is on a spectrum, are fucking retards.

>>127899747
Personality is a spectrum. The gender spectrum is just an act of mental gymnastics in an effort to produce more special snowflakes who can be victims to a system.

>>127902633
The only "proof" you need is in your pants. If it's long and snakey you're a man, if it resembles two pancake you're a woman. The end.

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>>127899747
How come the left uses animals showing homosexual tendencies as proof that homosexuality is natural, but won't acknowledge how animals have strictly defined gender rolls for males and females as proof of their only being 2 genders in nature?

>>127902171
it would be a spectrum if there was a way to measure it and place a person on this spectrum. since there is none theres no reason to talk about it .

im not saying the idea of gender is useless , im saying its nowhere near scientifically developed enough for anyone outside behavioral psychology research circles to talk about .

its useful in animal research mostly , you can operationally define certain characteristics as male or female and see how certain genes\environmental conditions change gender expressions.

>>127899747
>no science to back it up
>literally only "the feels"

No. Youre male or female. Now whether you have a mental disorder is another thing completely

>BUT SEX ISNT GENDER

retards playing semantics

try reassigning your chromosomes. you fucking faggots.

>>127902171
>reading comprehension

What I said in my post is that Jewish tactics to subvert the social order are given a scientific 'flavor.' This is to make it seem more believable to the masses, but it will not stand under any form of scrutiny.

I did not say to abandon actual science. "There are no races. Just the human race" is one such example that is demonstrably wrong.

>>127902886
see >>127900622
just because something exists doesn't make it universal. Most gender roles are also bullshit. do you think for most of human history women had a home to manage? what home nigger?

This "gender is a spectrum" crap actually infuriates me, frankly. I believe that these people who "identify" as some gender that doesn't actually fucking exist need actual help, as in mentally. They're confused and delusional and need mental health care. This Leftist ideological garbage only enables their delusions.

>>127902633
If gender is a spectrum, then why do transgenders seek to be explicitly the opposite sex, instead of settling for some middle section of spectrum. Were it a spectrum, there should be some middle ground, yet in the vast majority of society, transsexuals included, there is no middle ground.

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>>127902880
200% agree my dude

>>127902717
>pheremones

pls tell me more

>>127899747
Nope,

Because while it will imply that in the middle there are hermaphrodites,
Fags and lesbians and other degenerates (traps, trannies) would be at random places of spectrum

>>127899747
If it is, it is not one dimensional.

>>127902980
See how is sex not gender? I dont understand how people think like that

>>127899971
Extra chromosomes leads to potatoes, not extra genders.

>>127899747
Does the Pope shit in the woods?

>>127903040
neat, didn't know the right worked for the jews. gender is a spectrum. science supports it. It isn't just some half researched field. it's litterally part and parcel of evolution that between every arbitrary grouping we name is a continuum of individual variance. Gender falls into this just as sex and just as species.

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>>127903085
>If gender is a spectrum
gender is not a spectrum.
there is male and there is female. besides that, there's mental illness (i.e. gender dysphoria, ect) but those people who suffer form such disorders are an extreme minority (0.2% of the population)

>>127902980
Give it 50 years or so and that may be a possibility.
That's if brain transplants don't get there first.

>>127899747
cut it in half, yes
There are feminine males and masculine females
For example, a baker is more feminine than a blacksmith
A girl who likes to shoot bows is more masculine than a girl who likes to bake

>>127903085
>vast majority
>no middle ground
this is like bitching that your cut is too small, so it's not a cut.

>>127903314
Yeah as someone who works in genetics, Id love to see your scientific proof

>>127899747
its whatever you want it to be it seems. Which means I will call it irrelevant and only ask for what sex a person is.

>>127900902
>all traits are created equal. It's the environment that determines usefullness
So what you are saying is that it is somehow wrong to categorize traits based on their usefulness in the carrier's survival?

>>127903412
I am arguing against gender being a spectrum, not for it.
Even the majority of the mentally ill view gender as binary.

>>127903071
And then they commit suicide when they could have been rescued.

But it's lots of money for the "gender pathways" industry.

And it's so politically incorrect that the psychology establishment has been made to scrub their literature of anything against it.

The worst is the poor kids who are given hormones, permanently screwing up their development.

>>127903119
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_transsexuality
blanchard's opinions are bullshit, but they do have some explanitory power even if half of it is 100% garbage

>>127902505
Well men actually do have a piece of DNA that women do not.

BUT!

I have a feeling that X linked mosaicism occurs in the female brain so they might have different advantages, and i would bet that they are complementary (gasp) to whatever is on the Y, and as they pass down, the allele that fits the environment better is more likely, as the other one is likely silenced epigenetically

There is so much we do not know, and most of it is far more interesting than emotionally driven hegelian traps

>>127899747
it isn't

>>127903070
>do you think for most of human history women had a home to manage?
The women managed the children you moron, homes came later and women began to manage those as well because it was where the children were.

Is OP a faggot?

>>127899747
Behavior and Character are a spectrum , perhaps sexuality , Not gender .two set of pipes ! get don't confuse genitals with personal Identity.

>>127899971
>>127900181
>>127901244
I could have selected more of you to respond to, but maybe enough of you will read this anyway.You are all being very obtuse, and it's mostly because of a junk version of scientific realism that you've inherited.

Gender does not necessarily mean anything to do with chromosomes. When people were called masculine or feminine for most of the history of those terms there was no knowledge of chromosomes, so that cannot possibly be the only or definitive meaning of the term. When people talk about 'gendering' they're talking about the cultural practices of expecting/demanding/encouraging certain roles based on sex.

What do you think happens when the little dicks on here who's daddies bullied them start calling people "low test betas." What do you think is happening there? Their masculinity is being called into question. Implied is that some are more manly and some are less manly. Same thing but reverse when a woman is called a "bull dyke" or a "tomboy"; the implication is that they are behaving in ways that we don't associate with or encourage in their sex. It's right there in our language, right there in the language used by polonians.

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>>127903602
we are in agreement then; gender is male or female, not a spectrum.
the vast majority of the mentall ill (i.e trannies) want to be known as either a male or female, not something inbetween

>>127901865
underrated

>>127903085
Actually, many are doing just that. I don't know any statistics but from browsing my friend's tumblr there are actually more people going trans and identifying as pseudo-genders than there are identifying as simply trans-male or trans-female, for example, "demiboy".

>>127903500
>I work in genetics
>I don't know what mutation is
your arbitrary biases don't change reality nigger. sexual traits are inheritable, they vary between person to person and are subject to evolution. this creates individuals who do not fall neatly into a perfect square hole. It's effects are in every level of biological expression. just as you would expect if it was caused by mutation

>>127901412
castrated males don't have their dicks cut off you retard.
And women with no uterus are a nature's mistake. Maybe just round them up somewhere and put a bullet in their head with the other trannies would be doing a good thing for humanity

>>127899747
faggot is still male

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>>127903314
>What I said in my post is that Jewish tactics to subvert the social order are given a scientific 'flavor.' This is to make it seem more believable to the masses, but it will not stand under any form of scrutiny.

>gender is a spectrum. science supports it. It isn't just some half researched field. it's litterally part and parcel of evolution that between every arbitrary grouping we name is a continuum of individual variance


hmmm. really activates the ole almond.

What is your definition of gender as you would like to define it?
What "science" supports the concept of a spectrum of genders in the animal kindom and specifically in humans?

>>127899747

Sort of. Sex is a biological classification scheme based both on genetics and sexual dimorphism, but cases exist where neither sex can be clearly assigned, like people who are XO, or XXY, or androgen insensitive.

Gender, on the other hand, is how society collectively understands and categorizes people and behavior according to sex. Although often stereotypes, these help people to navigate complex societies in which they have to try to determine, roughly, the rough likely place of everybody else they will ever meet within it, whether or not they are a threat, and all of this for everybody they ever come across - and all of this with little more than a second of visual contact, or a sentence or two of speech if very lucky, to guide them.

For both of these, only "male" and "female" have enough members for a common set of attributes to be developed in a person's mind, so there can only be said to be these two in any meaningful sense.

However, it is also possible for people to be "neither", and this concept isn't new; a classic example being eunuchs, who in many cultures were seen as not being the same gender as intact men (e.g., the Bible).

There is also evidence that the apparent biological basis of gender - in utero hormone exposure profile, the thing that makes people "feel" male or female, and separately determines sexual orientation - is somewhat variable as well (hence bisexuality).

So to answer your question, there are only two plausibly useful classification categories, "M" and "F", but "neither" clearly also exists because of people born intersex, both physically and mentally. "Neither" isn't really a gender, but it is possible for a person to plausibly be neither male nor female.

>>127899747
Gender just means being masculine of feminine and in that sense it's a spectrum.

A dude that cuts his dick off might be a very effeminate man, but he is not a woman

>man
>woman
>mentally ill retards who mutilate their own genitals and don't gain the benefits of the opposite gender who are high in suicide rates and mostly worthless to society

>>127899971

Are you willing to say that unless they have those conditions, they aren't transsexual in any way? That they might just be insane.

The notion that there is a genetic component to transgenderism or non-standard sexuality has a decent case. But you can't have that AND say people can just pick and choose their gender.

>>127903536
Yes, because the usefulness of a trait is cumulative in a species and can actually worsen its position. a hunter that is so good it outhunts all its food is not a useful survival trait, but surround it with more agile prey and now the trait is worth something. The usefullness of even negative traits for the bearer can have positive effects on the widespread gene pool. this is the engine of evolutionary change. evolutionary traits live and fail in their environment and what makes them work or not can and has changed on a dime.

>>127899747
No, only 2 genders exist male and female.

>>127899865
fpbp

No. There are only two genders; it's entirely binary.

People will bring up trans n shieet, but every trans situation is one gender pretending to be the other.

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>>127904232
>For both of these, only "male" and "female" have enough members for a common set of attributes to be developed in a person's mind, so there can only be said to be these two in any meaningful sense.
you mean 99.93% of all people that ever existed?
that's a little more than "enough members," m8, it's all humanity

>>127899747
no. Retards have confused the words gender with expresion and personality traits for the purpose of identity politics and other nonsense.
They try to quantify their abnormal personalities and outward expression as some unique qualifier to make themselves feel special after things like simply being gay and perhaps even trans became mainstream.

If every fucking faggot or straightman who acted with an inkling of femininty decided to define their actions/expressions as its own specific gender qualifier the madness would never fucking stop and you would have shitheads having half baked "intelectual" arguments over what gender category specific people were labeled under depending on how they dressed/acted.

Gender is an absolute you are either male or female with a few outliers who have genetic defects. No matter how many hormones or surgery a person takes they will always be male or female.

>>127899747
Yeah, a discrete one.

>>127899747
I think within each gender is a behavioral spectrum.

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>>127899747
You cannot choose your own gender. I only give passes to those with genetic fuckery at work.

>>127901940
That's the most eloquent nigger I ever seen

>>127904350
Really interesting post.
Do you think that the sexually desirable traits in men and women have changed over time?
In other words, are what makes someone sexually desirable, in part, a "social construct", or is it just biology?

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Gender is a spectrum

Politics isn't though, you're either a liberal or a nazi

>>127899971
When SJWs talk about gender, they're talking about phenotype, not genotype. Arguing about chromosomes won't persuade them.

>>127903695
agreed. I have a friend who is right wing, and I'm left. we love this kind of stuff, it's much more interesting than the infuriating clap trap. Personally I'm looking into a degree to work on evo devo. I'm honestly sick to my stomach having to wade through so much political click-bait to read the latest science. There's tons of studies on the brain that are recent and contradictory. The stuff on blanchard typology makes me interested as well. i'd love to sanitize that garbage, because it finally seems useful without the assumptions of trans people's sexuality defining their motivations rather than GID.

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Sure it is honey :)

>>127899747
There is no gender spectrum. Gender spectrums were created on the basis of stereotyping and "roles". As a sexual reproductive species we only have two sexes. Male and female. There exist abnormalities such as intersex people, but even then those are rare mutations and even those people align to one sex.

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>>127903982
So your saying fuck all and just stating that it is possible for evolution to occur while providing no examples of how gender even resembles a spectrum. Try harder.

>>127901805

So you're just taking the word 'personality' and using the word 'gender' instead.

There are two sexes - male and female.
There are two genders - masculine and feminine.

You can be a masculine or feminine male - but you are still male.

Gender is not feelings or personality.

>>127903743
>women managed the children
wow way to be wrong nigger
the whole tribe raised their children. Except for childrearing interrupting some but not all hunting for women, there was almost no division of labor. You don't have time for that shit when theres no refrigerator.

Gender is some faggot word that is now the property of the social sciences, just use the word sex to distinguish between male and female.

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>>127899747
Is mayonnaise a spectrum?

>>127899747
Yes, a spectrum from 0 to 1.
Woman to man.
No decimals.

>>127904012
>castrated males don't have their dicks cut off you retard.
some do, and you are dodging the question
>natures mistake
IE a spectrum nigger

>>127903085

They often do, and in fact this option often has the best treatment outcomes, because an individual with gender dysphoria will never feel comfortable as their assigned gender, but also typically find after surgery both that the other gender isn't perfect either, and that even in the best-case scenario for transition, they'll never be seen as their chosen gender in the same way that someone who was born and grew up that way is.

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>>127905215
Yes, but progressive liberals have redefined gender to mean the RATIO of masculine/feminine traits, of which there is an infinite combination. Hence why they say it's a spectrum.

Nope. Binary. Everyone who isn't male or female is an aberration. A mistaken freak of nature.

>>127901581

This is my personal view as well but I've been told that gender identity is important to a lot of people so it does exist.

Just mental retardation

>>127904232

>99.93%
>all humanity

No, there still are those 0.07% in your example, but like an Edo period Japanese with black people, there just isn't enough exposure to form even a stereotype. The point is that people exist who cannot be clearly called male or female, but not enough of them for a third social category other than "neither" to be useful.

>>127905447
>a single leg or arm

What the fuck

>>127903252
Wrong. Klinefelter syndrome and other sex chromosome issues (such as Turner syndrome) produce offspring that survive to adulthood.

Good thread

>>127904188
Gender is the amalgamation of currently popular evolutionary traits that are sexually dymorphic in the mind

sex is the amalgamation of currently popular evolutionary traits that are sexually dymorphic in the physical body, but not directly related to the mind.

when describing gender and sex as a spectrum, it is merely the acknowledgement that these traits are in constant flux and subject to evolution. ergo, a spectrum.

>a broad range of varied but related ideas or objects, the individual features of which tend to overlap so as to form a continuous series or sequence:

People can be born without some of the traits or with more than the traits we as a people have decided characterize male and female. from a biological perspective, the only way you can 100% categorize gender is on gestation and insemination, but these categories aren't always useful to society due to infertility. we tend to overlook them, creating dissonance between what might be considered the ultimate biological expression of gender. In addition, it necessitates a view that is counterintuitive; those mutations that tend to subvert sexual binary entirely (as infertility would, since the purpose of sexual dimorphism is to breed,) may be the beginnings of different expressions of gender (such as having two kinds of males) or even the atrophying of certain gender type characteristics for those not involved in breeding. This is seen most frequently in ants and other queen based insect colony species

>>127906015
Once you start treating mental illness as something acceptable, the possibilites become unlimited

>>127904188

Behaviors which are typical or even characteristic of males or females in the animal kingdom are often not exclusive to them. In mammals, for whom biological comparison with humans is strongest, behaviors such as dominance displays and aggression correlate strongly with both hormone levels as adults and developmental hormone profiles in utero, for many species, and for both males and females.

>>127904232
>For both of these, only "male" and "female" have enough members for a common set of attributes to be developed in a person's mind, so there can only be said to be these two in any meaningful sense.
This is basically truth, and why trans people fight for being able to change their gender on paper. convinience factors of social interaction combined with medical necessities and other demographic factors makes having a whole slew of "genders" completely backwards since they don't really serve any kind of purpose from a government or societal aspect. Having room for a third or 4th (for the lel both interesex) is about as complex as it needs to be, but it can be argued that this might be excessive if we can set up a legal system that adjusts the category boundries of male and female in a way that remains useful to society.

>>127899747
I personally like to just use "fuckhead" or "dumbass" when some attention seeking piece of shit insists that people use their made up pronouns because they are gender neutral words and I don't want to offend babby.

>>127904878
both, it would ordinarily be biology, but once you develop social factors you inevitably have to confront the reality that sexual selection can be informed by social constructs.

>>127905178
the existance of transexuals, intersexed invdividuals, and those with androgen sensitivity are all examples. if you weren't biased you would realize we've been talking about them this whole time.

>>127905330
>no decimiles
you seem uninformed on what a spectrum is.

>>127904232
That definition of gender that you use is not the definite on actually. It actually started to be used during the 70's feminist movement implemented by the accusations from a sociologist. The true meaning of gender was "to be male or female" and simply was just a different word to be used for sex, just how "beautiful" and "exquisite" mean the same thing but are different words. Basically the use of gender you're using is an unofficial sociologist term.

Simply what you are describing is pure gender stereotypes. Sure, perhaps certain stereotypes actually exist within men and women (women being more emotional and men usually being more agressive creatures) but wearing dresses and liking pink is just a stereotype for women, not an actual thing embedded into their psychology unless you want to count societal norms.

>>127903040
There are Jewish trannies, you know.

>>127905447
THIS. The whole question is one of semantics intended to confuse.

The Right uses the word Gender to mean either Sex, or the Psychological Traits common to a particular sex. Thus there are two sexes [Man and Woman] and two Genders [Male and Female]. These always correlate. The closest thing to an exception is outliers such as genetic disorders or arguably effeminate men and tomboys [whom, for the most part nobody denies the actual male-ness or female-ness of]

The Left has decided that in addition to the two physical sexes, they are going to label every possible point along the spectrum of masculinity and femininity as its own unique gender with its own special interest groups. By this metric, there are infinite genders.

The only problem with such a designation is that its generally useless as a measure, and was created almost entirely for political purposes.

Someone in the past who was lets say 53% Masculine 47% Feminine [pretending for an instant its that cut and dry] would just be called effeminate, or a sissy, or a beta male, is now called a poly-demi-quasi-metrosexual with port and starboard attachments [and turbo drive].

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>>127905360
Dr. Paul R. McHugh from Johns Hopkins makes the excellent point that transgenderism isn't feeling like the opposite sex, but feeling how you *imagine* the opposite sex feels. A man can never know what it really feels like to be a woman, and vice versa. So no surprise that guys who get their dicks chopped off don't feel better.

>>127902638
Fine. What about: Expressing Y makes you a man.

>>127907497
you've pretty much hit the nail on the head, the right is comfortable and even oppressive in its insistance on convinience of gender constructs. and the left, not keen on being left out of being potato, started to label everything like theyre going out of fashion. It's like we forgot that labels are supposed to provide some kind of valuable function and information.

This is what you get when you polarize.

>>127904878

They very clearly have. Some things are obviously deeper than other, like waist-hip ratio, but others have changed enormously. In early modern China it was considered sexy for a woman to have bound feet; guys wrote classical poetry about how hot they thought it was.

Moreover, even the biology itself of these things changes over time. Look at the enormous variety of ridiculously ostentatious bullshit many male birds have evolved, for instance.

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>>127907295
Those are mental disorders, this changes nothing about their physicality.

>>127907607
to what extent do you define expression? theres always going to be outliers. do they have to have full androgen body hair active? many men don't. Do they have to react to pheromones as a man and not a woman? The reality is expression of y is dependant on androgens, and the ammount of it you get and at what times is going to vary to a fine point.

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>>127905270
This triggers me. Mayonnaise is not a fucking spectrum. The Miracle Whip jew is NOT mayonnaise.

>>127907498
I feel fine. Then again, I never thought of myself as a woman, but rather "not man" which I can know and accurately assess through experience. It's that there are only two options. By rejecting one you implicitly choose the other.

>>127907873
>being this level of retarded
what exactly do you study, bacterium? only one of those things could be classified as a mental illness, and all of them have physically measurable dimorphism from their chromosonal gender to different degrees, from extreme to milder.

>>127899971
Having more than two options doesn't make it a spectrum. A spectrum would be real numbers vs multiple choice as natural numbers. Also you're referring to what they call sex, whenever SJW use gender it can be substituted with the word personality and it removes the confusion from their word choice.

>>127907498
>don't feel better
wrong


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12856892
>This study examined factors associated with satisfaction or regret following sex reassignment surgery (SRS) in 232 male-to-female transsexuals operated on between 1994 and 2000 by one surgeon using a consistent technique. Participants, all of whom were at least 1-year postoperative, completed a written questionnaire concerning their experiences and attitudes. Participants reported overwhelmingly that they were happy with their SRS results and that SRS had greatly improved the quality of their lives. None reported outright regret and only a few expressed even occasional regret. Dissatisfaction was most strongly associated with unsatisfactory physical and functional results of surgery.

>>127908460
holy shit this is incoherant, can you rephrase your arguement in english words?

No, it just helps the SJW snowflakes accept their weird kinks.

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>>127906100
I'm a gender?!?

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>>127907295

>>127908689
see >>127908314

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>>127908314
All of their sexual differences come as a result of undergoing treatment or other forms of medicinal practice. As such the only "natural" thing about their views is that it is possibly a mental disorder from birth. The moment futanari and other fucked shit start being born and are able to exist without the need for outside intervention to accommodate their bodies, then you will have a new gender, but as of now we just have many mentally ill individuals forcing us to accommodate their ill minds.

There are 2 scoops of covfefe

>>127908496
SRS is a meme. It's just crotch origami. Only orchiectomy is necessary. People who have cosmetic surgery are insecure, and that's a far larger psychological problem.

>>127907375

>unless you want to count societal norms

That is just about the whole of what I'm counting. Gender is what society decides biological sex means in terms of place and role within it, and an individual's determination of where they fit within that framework is an important part of development. It's why young children are so exaggerated with it when they first discover the concept, with girls being awash in pink shit and boys awash in war games and trucks.

https://youtu.be/QJ2fMeer5Mw

>>127901412

No they are not men nor women, if you have your balls or uterus deformed you stop producing testosterone and estrogen. Your whole body suffers because it´s telling you became a dead wheigth.

>>127899747
For a snowflake it is

For real life/doctors/facts it's made up.

>>127908826
>All of their sexual differences come as a result of undergoing treatment or other forms of medicinal practice.
wrong
>>127903685
>As such the only "natural" thing about their views is that it is possibly a mental disorder from birth.
wrong
>The moment futanari and other fucked shit start being born and are able to exist without the need for outside intervention to accommodate their bodies, then you will have a new gender, but as of now we just have many mentally ill individuals forcing us to accommodate their ill minds.
gender is a spectrum, you don't have to add a whole new color to get a continuum science denier. Nor do most intersexed people need medical intervention to live.

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>>127899747
idc as long as im not involved

>>127899747
Yes. The two end points are male and female and in between are varying levels of mental illness

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>>127908215
>It's that there are only two options.
But there are many other options. My point's that male/female is just biological, what kind of person you need to reproduce with and what kind of health issues you might develop, like testicular cancer.

>>127908899
many just have genital based dysphoria actually and would rather take that origami than have to live with a dick.

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>>127905270
NO! mayonnaise is a instrument

>>127909023
then you better change your society to have a third gender; evolutionary deadweight
seems kind of mean spirited imho, but if you don't protect your gender definition from the infertile theyre going to change the meaning of your cherished view.

>>127909252
This is retarded, the most that science can support is male, female, both, or neither. we have no need for alphabet soup gender lables. function over form.

>>127899747
no. piss off and kill yourself for even asking.

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>>127909165
Please present to me an indicator of a natural evolution of sexual characteristic present in such individuals.

>>127909711
I just did.

>>127909750
No, you didn't, you just said that was the case while providing no evidence.

>>127909252
No option for ah64.

those bigots.

>>127909815
>what is a source? can I eat it?
You are not a scienctist.
feel free to fuck off.

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>>127899747

>>127899747
Gender is a grammatical term applying to romance language nouns. The word gender has nothing to do with people.

>>127899971
We'll then in that case there are males, females, and mongoloid cretins that should have been put to the sword

Is spectrum a gender?

Consider, contrast, compare and discuss.

>>127906408

This is a misunderstanding of how evolution works.

Evolution is a process of random mutations in offspring, but it does not result in randomness in a society.
If a mutation increases the likelihood that the parent's genes will be passed on, then it is likely that the original mutation will continue to be passed on in future generations (barring some accident like a predator eating the offspring before it can pass it's genes on).
If a random mutation decreases the likelihood of passing on genes, it is unlikely to continue for many generations (think fatal hereditary disease).

This further implies that any random mutation that is beneficial will make the people that carry that mutation more 'fit' than others who don't have it. They will likely be able to have more offspring than those that don't have it. And over generations, the 'more fit' group will out compete the other 'less fit' group.
The end result will be a society that nearly all has the same beneficial mutation (ex. sub-saharan africans malarial defense).

How this applies to genders: The vast majority of society exhibits binary sexual traits. male/female. In incredibly rare circumstances true XY males can be born with vaginas or true XX females can have penises. But these are unmistakeably anomalies and are considered birth defects, gene copying errors, etc.
the concept of evolution supports this, because such mistakes would undoubtedly lead to decreased 'fitness' in having offspring and this mutation would not be inherited and popularized through society.

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>>127900309

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Autism is a gender

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>>127909931
You have no sources, you are blowing steam out of your ass. You are either a new hire shill or absolutely inept.

No, faggot.

There is only ONE gender. Get over it.

>>127909592
How can someone be both or neither? I see only male or female.

male
or
female

>>127899747
If you guys keep bring up this issue, you are going to see a future of nothing but Unisex bathrooms label bathroom. Mark my words.

>>127909252
The vast majority will subconsciously sort you into one of two categories, with all the underlying information that conveys. The individual has little influence over others' perception. Walking and quacking like a duck works for me, but it doesn't work for everyone. Ultimately a transgender person has to be genetically blessed, and a bit of a natural actor with solid emotional and intuitive intelligence.

If I lived in Byzantium, I'd be content living as a eunuch. But only because their society cultivated a conceptual third gender, with its own assumptions, role and expectations. That's not an option today. I can't deliver all that information at a glance.

>>127910178
with the amount of posts ITT and the style, my guess would be that it's just an autistic tranny that's wandered in here from /lgbt/

>>127910178
do you genuinely believe that people would pay for shills to post in what may as well be a fucking slide thread anyway?

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Trust the AI scientists.

>>127899747
Tell your professor, NO.
Fuck off college kid.

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>>127899747
Is this console a spectrum?

>>127899865
FPBP

>>127899747
nigga this picture ins't even a spectrum its a man and a woman running away from each other really fast.

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>>127909470

This wouldn´t happen with soft eugenics in the first place. Why do would we change for them anywhay? there are ways of making them productive and respected members of society, but to do so we have to use the word "handicapped" again and have real expections for them.
Places such as pic related for which i voluntered once, this tipes of asylums existed for centuries.

>>127910141
Is it really? Or is that just what SJWs want you to believe when in reality "sever autism" is just aspergers with low intelligence, and "high functioning autism" is just autism with someone who is actually intelligent?

>>127910947
No, that's an Atari 2600.

>>127899747
>Is gender a spectrum?
If gender is a spectrum, how come I can't change my age. I don't want to be 28, I'd rather be 21....oh wait...I was born in 89. Same concept with peens and va-jayjays. Fuck these mental disorder faggots. "Hitler did nothing wrong" is starting to make sense.

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>>127908746
Self obsession to the point of physical mutilatation and a desire to become needlessly dependant on drugs (hormones) is a glaring indication of a mental disorder. No matter how you dress it up these people are fucked up in the head and would benefit more with help to accept themselves as they were born rather than encouraged to live a life of impersonating what they are not. Personal experience of being around trannies bought me to this conclusion decades ago. Rewarding such destructive self obsession is nothing more than abuse on the part of anyone who goes along with the transexual/gender acceptance bollocks

>>127911148
if they're gonna make genders into something unscientific then we should just make the most preposterously stupid things be genders too, that way normies will react to the utter stupidity and won't listen to the quadrillion genders people.

>>127906408
>>127910072

As to your final paragraph: the only way we can 100% categorize gender is to look at the chromosomes. Nearly all of society (99+%) has either XX or XY chromosomes. In rare cases like kleinfelter's syndrome (syndrome. it's referred to as a syndrome) a person can have XXY. In even rarer cases, which usually results in infertility, an individual can more sex chromosomes. But all of these result in bizarre and sometimes fatal physical anomalies (distorted head/small skull, additional limbs, mental retardation, etc).

>>127911418
TD did a meme a while back calling themselves trumpgenders, or maybe pedegender idk

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>>127899747
no op it's more like this

>>127911336
How does it feel to be completely wrong? Unmedicated eunuchs have a significantly longer lifespan than intact men. Trannies choose to take hormones, but they're not dependent on them.

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>>127911777
at least they try

>>127899865
7/5 bretty gud

>>127908960
Yes you're right mostly, that's exactly what society (or a fraction if it) interprets gender as. However, even if a boy plays with dolls, people (except liberals) aren't going to accuse him of being a girl, just an emasculated boy. And that's the thing with gender nowadays. Really, it just means sex in its original terminology.

>>127902717
Some how they have other animal attributes as well? Human pheromones and the effects of are still under debate let alone being able to test to see it someone is "effected" by them. So no they don't have physiological traits just a mental condition called delusional disorder.

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>>127904876
I know, I think he might have been smarter than me desu
>tfw less intelligent than a fucking nigger

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>>127899865

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>>127912213
I work with horses. Geldings do live a bit longer and generally more calm and easier to work with. Same with eunochs. Trannies are different. Trannies ARE dependant if they don't want some degree of reversal of the 'feminizing'/'masculinizing process. Where the fuck do you get your info? I can tell it's not through real life experience

>>127900875

This is the truth. Leftists are hijacking the concepts of gender/sex because laymen have lazily interchanged the two concepts for too long.

Sure, but many of the concepts used to define them are arbitrary
>guys fearing dick in the butt
>reacting to fear with aggression
Signs of a weak male. Female as fuck.

>>127899747
Gender is a social construct, consider yourself whatever you want and use whatever pronouns you want to as long as you acknowledge your biological sex

>>127914064
I lived as a eunuch for many years. Sex hormones are like burning the candle at both ends. Fertility, or even the facsimile, comes at a price. I take a small dose of estrogen now for health, as I obviously loathe the alternative. I won't take it forever. When I'm the age my mother was at menopause, I'll stop medicating and grey gracefully.

>>127900705
Collegiate fags are often stupid.

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>>127899865
fpbp

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>>127914693
Why did you feel the need for castration?

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>>127915484
Let's call it a spiritual proclivity.

>>127912812

No, they won't accuse him of being a girl, but they'll accuse him of acting like one, or of playing with "girls' toys". That's why gender is useful as a separate term: there are things we associate with one gender or the other that aren't necessarily exclusive to members of that biological sex.

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>>127899747
Friendly reminder that since the death of God and advent of secular psychology Jews have been trying to convince little goy boys that they're little goy girls.

There was transgenderism in Weimar, I repeat, there was transgenderism in Weimar.

>>127915830
Were you trying to become a woman or simply you believed neutering yourself would bring inner calm having testosterone significantly lowered?

>>127899747
no

>>127917295
Ok.

>>127914705
in a world where half your classes grades depend on how well you are able to recite propaganda, yes, collegiate fags do become stupid.
I literally had a test where the entire essay section was graded on how well you could prove donald trump was a bad president. I wonder which political party could possibly stand to gain from such things?

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>>127916663
There was transgenderism at the Palatine in Augustus' empire. There was transgenderism at the temple of Nanna in Ur. What's your point?

>>127917046
The latter. I'm one of few who can affirm the mythical calm is very real. Some are driven mad by it. Afloat in endless waters in the night, the mind frighteningly free from vexation. It's easier for me to present and live as a woman, but that's to do with the perceptions of others, not my own spin.

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>>127909252
Agender?
So now not chosing a gender is also a gender?

>>127917911
Would you prefer to present yourself as a eunuch rather than masquerade as a woman? Is society more willing to accept transgenders than eunuchs wishing to 'quiet the storm'

>>127903892
The problem here is that you are conflating gender, identity and behavior.

Quite simply, if you cannot measure, quantify or observe something then there is no point in claiming it exists. One cannot measure falsifiably this so-called property of gender beyond biological sex. If, as the thread was predicated on, gender is a spectrum, then what factors contribute to this? If it is chemical concentrations in the brain then that can be altered- thus gender is not an intractable part of identity as most regard it to be. This is similarly a problem with claiming gender rests on something that can be changed easily: if you can think of others. If it is a spectrum with continuous factors then these can be altered: gender is not a real concrete part of identity, ergo it isn't useful as a social property.

Perhaps then multiple "genders" exist, as distinct defined categories, with distinct brainstates or somesuch distinct, discrete causation? If this is the case you really have to find and assert the criterion of these categories: or every single person is a different gender; ergo again gender is not a socially useful property.

The only reason we care about gender, is because it is a socially useful property- it tells us something about an individual. We then use this for whatever purpose, how best to interact, whether we might reproduce with them and any other social action requiring such information.

Tl;dr gender is a shorthand for properties associated with sex; these are not socially constructed however as they all depend on very real and physical causes.

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>>127909252
>Person of transgender experience
does that apply to someone who has met a transperson or do you have to experience it yourself?

>>127919623
Yes, I would prefer to present myself as a eunuch. My lover sees me that way, but no one else does. How could they? They have no conception of the idea. I'm not evangelical; I'm just trying to live. You see in conservative societies a preference for transgenders to homosexuals, because it better suits preexisting notions. There's Ahmadinejad's classic, "we don't have homosexuals in Iran" comment, incidentally the country that performs the 2nd most reassignment surgeries, worldwide. You can put a square peg in a round hole, it just takes a saw. But you see the allure in business as usual. If there was an "other" option, I'd take it. There isn't. I can either blend in or be a visible pariah.

>>127899747
>>127899971
>>127900181

sexuality may be on a spectrum and/or fluid, but gender is some namby pamby okey dokey if if if if if shit

there are only two sexes, though, with some freaks.

>>127920738
Thats pretty hard anon. I have no time for those faking who they are for attention but I can understand your reasons for becoming a eunuch and feel sorry you cant present as yourself. I hope you find a space one day where you can.

>>127905215
gender isnt personality , its behavior . if you say there's 2 this raises some questions
>how can you tell which actions\behaviors are of which gender
>can they even be attributed to just one
>what if someone mixes them both
>what if someone alternates

and studying it in humans is near impossible ,constantly shifting culture and trends get in the way and you cant measure people's entire experience of growing up counting how many times they were exposed to this or another cultural meme and how it changed their gender behavior.

human gender is incredibly complicated and convoluted . you can test and empirically determine im male but there's no empirical,rigorous way to show im masculine or feminine .

gender is a useful idea when studying mice,dogs or some wild animals like hyenas or something . with humans its like trying to model weather , too many unknowns and unknowable . i think the best way to advance anywhere in that department is more advanced brain scan tech, maybe using neural networks on the scans to find correlations between things we consider determined by gender and different types of stimulus .

>>127899747
Yes. There are men, and there are women. That's the spectrum. One or zero.

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>>127923515
>One or zero.

>>127901940
so why did the other nigger become president?

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>>127899747
No, but Autism is

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>>127899747

only in hollywood ....