/LRG/ - RIGHT WING LIBERTARIAN GENERAL - WHAT'S COVFEFE? EDITION

>>127868648
>I support free speech
>Pinochet is an approved person

AHAHHAHAHAHAHAH are you so much of an ahistorical faggot you think this man supported freedom of expression or even property rights?

Literally all he did was enforce the crony capitalist state aggressively, all on CIA globalist dollar of course.

I mean you support both Alex Jones, muh globalists man extaordinaire, and yet you also support literal CIA backed globalists.

The right libertarian right are truly the most autistic ideology going

>>127868648
>small government
>Pinochet.

again. HA

also Alex Jones is a Trump supporter. Trump has an is increasing the stretch of the state. You are a fucking retard

>>127868648
also Alex Jones is a paid shill, given that he backtracked on Pizza gate and even said in open court his whole thing was an act

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>>127869058
>>127869194
>>127869252
You better show me the permit for your shitposting license.

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>>127869058
>>127869194
>>127869252

Someone's buttblasted that there's a helicopter ride coming for them.

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FAQ:
>Do you support open borders?
No. The government does not own the land, therefore it cannot determine the border policy. Seeing as 90% of immigration is harmful to the country, by default a vetting system is essential to protect the rights of the citizens.
>Whom'st'd'll've builds the roads?
The people who are going to use them will pay the road crews, and maintenance is provided by the toll money.
>Do you support drug use/other degenerate behaviour?
No, we strongly discourage it as it damages a society built on non-aggression. Most covenants would be built around family (to fill the void after the government is largely/completely gone), and family life is vulnerable to these socio-pathological behaviours. If degenerates want to form their own communities, they are welcome to choke on their own filth or clean up and become productive members of the society.
>Are you Jewish?
No, our Jews are better than their Jews. Few movements (apart from NatSocs, duh) have been accused of anti-Semitism as much as we have, and that's including our more moderate/mainstream figureheads, such as Ron Paul. We support Palestine over Israel (because it's their land, not because they're brown) and we strongly support cutting all foreign aid to Israel (and to pretty much everyone). The international financiers would be significantly set back by freeing the currency system and implementing an actual standard for money to prevent over-printing and inflation. Also we don't trade with our enemies, what the fuck.
>What will you do when governments take over you/reform?
Toss them out of helicopters again. Our crusade is eternal. Liberty or Death!

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RECOMMENDED READING LIST:
ECONOMY
>The Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith
>A Treatise on Political Economy by Jean-Baptiste Say
>The Law by Fréderic Bastiat
>The Road to Serfdom by Friedrich August von Hayek
>The Economics and Ethics of Private Property by Hans-Hermann Hoppe
>Man, Economy, and State by Murray Rothbard
>Basic Economics by Thomas Sowell
POLITICS
>Democracy - The God that Failed by Hans-Hermann Hoppe
>Second Treatise of Government by John Locke
>Anarchy, State and Utopia by Robert Nozick
>For a New Liberty by Murray Rothbard
>Against the State by Llewellyn Rockwell
>Reactionary Liberty by Robert Taylor
>What Must Be Done by Hans-Hermann Hoppe

>>127869673
>>127869713
literally 0% arguments.

either you support free speech and you don't support Pinochet, or you don't support free speech and do support Pinochet, which is it neocon faggots?

Murray Rothbard in defense of his pupil

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2014/10/murray-n-rothbard/hoppephobia/

>>127869960
>>The Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith

Utterly debunked. He begins with the premise that before money there was a system of barter, there is no evidence for this as a widespread medium of exchange, rather primitive tribes and clans would give each other goods freely, barter would only take place between strangers.

In fact before barter complex systems of debt existed, and money was the replacement for these.

Adam Smiths entire theory fundamentall misreads the nature of money.

Read Debt:The First 5000 Years for the real story.

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MEDIA:
GOOD TIER
>Minarchy Memes on faceberg - sometimes posts edgy stuff
>Liberty Hangout on faceberg - adamant fighters against communism
>jasonstapleton.com - The Jason Stapleton Program - right-libertarian podcast
>youtube.com/user/ThatLibertarianT - That Guy T
GREAT TIER
>Hoppean Snake Memes on faceberg - the source of the snake memes we keep posting - keep up, nerd
>youtube.com/user/FreedomFighter631 - Chris Cantwell - host of the Radical Agenda
>youtube.com/channel/UCRr7mGBwURyRGM2BRPV3hNQ - Augustus Sol Invictus' ramblings and other content
>youtube.com/channel/UCIwnY7Ee4Kfn8g6tz9tjfzA - 1st Irregulars - former Cantwell's supporters, decided to go even further right
>1stirregulars.com - 1st Irregulars' main site
>youtube.com/user/stefbot - Stefan Molyneux
>tomwoods.com - Tom Woods's podcasts
INFORMATIVE TIER
>mises.org - Mises Institute
>cato.org - Cato Institute
>propertyandfreedom.org - Property and Freedom Society
>lewrockwell.com - Lew Rockwell

>>127870158
>neocon
Nice try, /leftypol/.
Free speech is nice, unless it advocates for the appropriation of other people's property.

>>127870355
>freely
>complex system of debt
Pick one, faggot. If it's free, you don't expect anything in return.

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VIDEOS:
>Christopher Cantwell - How I started hanging out with Nazis - youtube.com/watch?v=2RdnvahTAnU
>Christopher Cantwell with Mike Enoch - youtube.com/watch?v=aSz_L1WZS7w
>Christopher Cantwell with That Guy T - youtube.com/watch?v=7QYL4w3V_mo
>Christopher Cantwell with Jared Howe - youtube.com/watch?v=szqxmnMfB8U
>Augustus Sol Invictus - Becoming a Reactionary - youtube.com/watch?v=HPQ9yh0gWoE
>Augustus Sol Invictus - The War on Terror - youtube.com/watch?v=wy2O7CPNmqI
>Hans-Hermann Hoppe - What Must Be Done - youtube.com/watch?v=d_ybi1MeC3c
>1st Irregulars - 1433: National Capitalism and the Correct View - youtube.com/watch?v=eVnDAa1LWpw
>That Guy T - The Case for Libertarian Fascism - youtube.com/watch?v=l2-jH1vFrW8

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MUSIC:
>Eric July - AnCap Rap pt.1 - youtube.com/watch?v=pGuj-Z3PNg8
>Eric July - AnCap Rap pt.2 - youtube.com/watch?v=zqV4RXLX1Hc
>I Need a Pinochet - youtube.com/watch?v=zhrYY3ocQ5o
>Ain't I Right - youtube.com/watch?v=XxIbq7HkalQ
>Metallica - Don't Tread On Me - youtube.com/watch?v=fh-TKJTCtnw
>Dixie's Land - youtube.com/watch?v=IUjLE_N1Cuc
>Yankee Doodle - youtube.com/watch?v=IzRhFH5OyHo
>Battle of New Orleans (if you counter-signal Jackson I swear on me mum I'll skullfuck you - plus it's a good song so fuck you) - youtube.com/watch?v=50_iRIcxsz0
>Mi General Augusto Pinochet - youtube.com/watch?v=R9R4zPTpS9w
>Adios Mi General - youtube.com/watch?v=5rsb7dT6sEM
>Rhodesians Never Die - youtube.com/watch?v=r1J8F6YQjBg
>Hammer Of The Right - youtube.com/watch?v=5WzAFG0Wntc
>The Edgytarian Song (/lrg/'s anthem) - youtube.com/watch?v=3qX8B02NDHI

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MEMES:
>Hoppewave - Physical Removal - youtube.com/watch?v=u-wMmYSG9JQ
>Cato's Speech - Let's get Physical - youtube.com/watch?v=XMqPWqOCGJU
>Hoppean Snake Memes - Let The Commies Hit The Floor - youtube.com/watch?v=yy9VvAuCCEg
>Stefan Molyneux - In-Depth Analysis of Marxism - youtube.com/watch?v=SGunPi4G2Ns
>Hoppean Snake Memes - Shadilay (Meme War against Agoristball) - youtube.com/watch?v=8xBsJUYySNo
>Hoppean Snake Memes - Snekintosh 420 - youtube.com/watch?v=JJMdttBmtsY
>That Guy T shitposting about the Alt-Right - youtube.com/watch?v=77CdqY4IdgU

>>127870966
>that picture
>milton
>rand
Holy shit, time to fix that heresy.

>>127871933
Hoppe and McVeigh ?

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>>127872157
Rothbard and Hoppe.
McVeigh was good to go, but not too big of a philosopher.
Though the "I am the captain of my fate, I am the master of my soul" line is great.

>>127871933
>milton

Voucher is theft.

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Wassap niggers. Stay off my property and keep your hands off my gibs. They belong to me!

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There's nothing more Libertarian than killing communists.

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>>127868648
>whats covfefe edition

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>>127876248
wtf i love drumpf now

>>127870607
>Free speech is nice, unless it advocates for the appropriation of other people's property.

>free speech is nice, unless it says something my feels can't handle.

and still ZERO arguments.

>>127870765

Yes faggot, you gave stuff to your neighbours, but you had complex systems of debt with the neighbouring village, and if you met a guy you didn't know, you couldn't trust him to pay the debt back, so you traded directly. Huuur duuur you're a fucking retard read the book. Its a commonly held academic point, Smith had no evidence for that part of his theory, go read The Wealth of Nations, look it up, you will find it not provided.

>>127872300
>BABIES LMAO

>HAVING A KING IS TRUE FREEDOM LMAO

RETARD IDEOLOGY FOR RETARDS

>>127877166
Is a meme you dip. dog bless

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>>127870966
>>127872300
>>127872300

>>127877888
and his answer to this is? Oh do what we were doing before but with more baby selling...

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Hello. Mom and dad never loved me during my growth years, so in order to fill this void in my being I need to exert my internal problems onto other human beings by participating in slavery called "government".

I actually care about people so much I think they should be required by gun point to help fund roads! So they can get to work of course...

I care about roads so much, that I'm going to completely ignore the fact that a clandestine guild of dark occult, child raping, baby eating, blood drinking, satanic, psychopathic, elite group of men that run the world and its politics through blackmail, murder, gematria, and drugs. Besides, current system does such a great job of taking care of them anyway. I've never seen a pothole in my life.

Ancaps btfo!

>>127878395
Yes more baby selling. Now please go away.

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>>127870607
>free speech is fine unless I disagree with it

Kek, this is the level of cog dis of your average anfag

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>>127878562
>strawman + babby's first political psych-an
>mfw ancaps are now copying SJW "argument" methods

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Book club

discord /7RjBcF

>>127872300
The irony of posting a Zizek meme, when he would absolutely trash any ancap in a debate

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>>127879242
>>127879479
You're just awful. Your bait is trash

>>127879670
>I have no arguments and can only regurgitate cringworthy "memes", so I'll dismiss your posts as bait to try and get an emotional response

>>127879959
That is a perfect description of your previous posts.

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>>127879959
But everything you've posted so far has been a non-argument

>>127869754
>Whom'st'd'll've
makes me laugh everytime

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who here ancap but would voluntarily move to a new place to work and pay more in taxes if the services weren't actually dog shit?

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>>127880317
Debunking anarcho capitalism is exceptionally easy.

Governments arise naturally in a completely free market, because humans demand power and influence over others and have done since the dawn of time.

That's how governments formed in the first place, back when we lived in total tribal anarchy.

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>>127870607
>Free speech is nice, unless it advocates for the appropriation of other people's property.
You just blow in from stupid town?

>>127881002
Lol, there's no free speech on my property cuckboi.

>>127868648
Is this the official theme of /LRG/ ???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YBumQHPAeU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YBumQHPAeU

>>127881098
>be ancap
>everywhere is private property where people dont tolerate free speech because muh property, muh rules
>if you hurt the property owners feelings or disrespect the corporate landlords you get "physically removed" for violating the NAP
>realise ancapistan has less free speech than North Korea

>>127880975
You've read Leviathan. Hobbes is right, and so are you

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>>127868648
>libertarian
>right

>>127880975
>Governments arise naturally in a completely free market.

Yes, we call it private law. This is the theory of austro-libertarianism. You've just made the argument for Anarcho Capitalism.

>>127881429
Get off my lawn before I send in the McDeathsquad. Liberals are not welcome.

>>127881606
elaborate

>>127881736
I'm not a liberal, I just have an elementary grounding in anthropology.

>>127882110
>elaborate
You explained it well. People like borders and national security, they would pay for those services and many more services that the state is known to provide. You would have governance by the best provider in a free market.

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Do you guys know Voegelin?

>>127880975
Being natural does not imply necessarily that something is desirable or fair. Rape is natural however is an immoral act

In any case, the argumentation ethics proves that what is natural, so to speak, is the private property anarchy

>>127880975
If people demand rule over me, I'll give them a taste of tyranny.

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>>127868648
Embrace Liberalism/Leftist Libertarianism already, faggots.

>>127886613
>Left Libertarianism
I prefer Jewish Nazism desu

Willy Wonka's Homeland Security when

>>127886762
>Jewish National Socialism
I don't see anything contradictory here. Most Jews tend to be globalists but nothing inherently impossible.

>>127886762
It's called Zionism.

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>>127881429
Physical removal does not violate the right of free speech. Different from the government that sends someone to jail or force the citzen to pay reparations. Your comparison is insane.

If someone insults your mother and you expel such person from your house this action does not violate free speech

Hoppe still recommends that we should tolerate the young ones, ostracism and mocking would be enough for the youngs, but for adults there should be no tolerance, if those people advocate for communism, democracy, nazism they will have to phisical removal from the libertarian social order.

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Oompa Loompa Labor Immigration Policy to be determined

>>127886613
Leftist politics are inherently egalitarian are they not? In what world is that compatible with libertarianism?

Social-Darwinism is the way to go, the worst of society and degenerates who can't make it should disappear... not become a burden for the productive.

This is the two sided conflict that plays out even in mainstream politics today, im sure most republicans aren't hardcore darwinists in the sense they want to people to die... but at least they shouldn't be encouraged into becoming parasites like they are today.

>>127886613
That's wicked gay. Fuck that.

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>>127888252

>>127888307
>Nambla
What did he mean by this?

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>>127868648
>Actual socialist and communist threads are more active on /pol/

Absolutely disgusting

>>127886613
I'd sooner embrace national socialism

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>>127889015
>Socialists in the same thread as me

>>127886613
I kind of like Proudhon ( one of thre greatest brazilian philosofers, Mario Ferreira dos Santos, was a proudhonian) but Stiner, Bakunin and Kropotkin were a bunch of rascals

>>127881429
Internet is still the place for free speach, if what you say it true(unlikely).

>>127888033
You can't have liberty without equality under the law, equality of opportunity and equal rights through anti-discrimination laws

>>127889572
I like discriminate tho.

>>127889904
I like *to discriminate tho.

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>>127888606

>>127889572
>anti-discrimination laws are liberty

I swear to god these threads are being purposely fucked with for some reason by shills.

>>127889904
>>127890225
You're oppressing someone by discriminating against them. Oppression is the opposite of liberty.

>>127890532
No I'm not. No one has a right to my property. They can fuck off.

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>>127890532

fuck commies and nazis

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This is my political compass. I'm close to an authotiaruan, however, still on the libertarian half. Do you deem this exceptable? Should I call myself a libertarian?

>>127890721
No one's talking about property. We're talking about selling goods and services.

>>127891376
Goods and services are property. My labor and resources I've gathered belong to me.

>>127890532
If you are so oppressed to the point where you can't survive within society because no one wants to do business with you. And so worthless that you can't leave and go somewhere else then you perish.

That's the whole point.

>>127889260
>implying I'm a socialist
I'm a minarchist, but I'd sooner embrace national socialism than left libertarianism. Not that I'd ever embrace the latter, so the discussion of embracing the former is irrelevant

>>127891283
>Basing labels on online tests and not your real beliefs
What do you think on issues?

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>>127891283

>>127891912
Right, degenerates have the freedom to die in a snowbank if they can't pave their own path.

>>127891615
Dey can't be ur property cuz goodz and services are to be given to everyone becuz property doesn't exist and u must gibs some tendies to da negroids and shitskinz odderwiss it b oppressing dem I swear you must gibs them the gibz

>>127892523
Ostracization is also a very important tool in our type of society.

It's a way of punishing actions without breaking the NAP. People can deny service, and conversely people can deny their patronage based on actions.

While this does allow for racism, if society is OK is with it then there has to be some kind of reason for it. And it would be up to that ethnic community to address that and fix it.

Unwarranted racism could be met with boycotting (a form of ostracization) of that particular business for it's perceived unfair action.

this is true liberty, not state enforced actions.

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>>127893861

>>127893861
Sheeeeit.

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I've been thinking of starting an ancap youtube channel, focusing on repilling people on a variety of subjects including economics.

What do you think? Worth doing?

>>127895244
Only if you're covering dank /lrg/ topics that there aren't thousands of videos for already. What are you planning to make videos on?

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>>127895244

>>127895649
Why free market capitalism is the greatest human invention to ever exist, why the USA is the greatest and most prosperous nation in the history of humanity, why moderates and liberals are indecisive retards, why universal suffrage was a mistake, etc.

Those kind of things.

>>127896339
Literally what every libertarian youtuber talks about here.

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>>127868648
>/lrg/-approved people - Bastiat, Hayek, (((Mises))), (((Rothbard))), Pinochet, Timothy McVeigh, Hoppe, Llewellyn Rockwell, Ron Paul, Alex Jones, Augustus Sol Invictus, Christopher Cantwell, and the 1st Irregulars. Some of the Liberty Hangout goys are approved too.

I think your forgetting someone important OP

>>127896339
Nice I like it. Go for it, shill it here.

Free helicopter rides violate the NAP

>>127896629
if you have suggestions for other topics, I'm all for it. Do you have things you want to hear which youtubers simply aren't talking about?

>>127896913
No. It's all voluntary funded.

>>127897001
Go for the edgy stuff. I like the case against universal suffrage idea.

>>127897001
I'd like to see more specific stuff about hoppean libertarianism.

>>127897164
>>127897001

This. Don't talk about America being the greatest nation but focus on it's ills like the federal reserve and stuff like that. Ancap youtube channels should cover topics related to the state

>>127897300
This isn't a bad idea, do the left-ancap/right ancap devide

The brazilian ancap gay anon die? I have not seen him in a long time.

>>127898159
AIDS
Not even once

>>127880975
I do hope you get the lawlessness you crave.
I predict you get murdered within 24 hours of societal collapse based on your post.

I have a question, /lrg/

Without relying on memes like McNukes, how can it be possible that an true ancap society defend itself against a more typical government with a organised army, without going full hypocrite?

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Did (((they))) take down the One Dollar Stefan Molyneux Metallica parody?

>>127900687
An organized militia ?
You don't need a government for that

>>127901041
While an organised militia would help defend against brigands and the likes, I don't think that it would help against a force armed and funded by a dedicated state, primarily in the 21st century, unless I'm missing something.

>>127902154
> primarily in the 21st century, unless I'm missing something.
Every civil war exsting yes You are misssing something

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>>127902361
But that's a civil war, brother on brother. The state would be fighting their own people in a civil war. My question is how a true, separate ancap society would stand against a foreign nation's invasion against them.

>>127869058
He supported property rights.
At a time the situation is critical and property rights are threatened by leftists, their physical removal is justified.

>>127903298
I meant a civil war in The sense that the organized loyalist armed group fight a rebellious one

>>127900687
Insurance companies will protect the territory from a foreign invasion by any means.

>>127900725
Probably

>>127886613
fuck off pastanigger

>>127904000
>Flag
Giovanni, you've hada to much wine.

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>>127869960
did the reading list change? what happened to pic related?

>>127905277
Based Slovak has his own paste and reading list when he hosts.

>>127868648
I'm a Pragmatist so I generally consider myself a Libertarian but I'm too jaded to think it can honestly work in large scales without it turning into anarchy since it requires the majority of people to be strong & intelligent enough to handle it.

I know I'm oversimplifying but that's the bottom line imo.

>>127886322
I like this pic

>>127903730
Still, the fact that the nations are separate means that the ancaps can't undermine the state like proper civil war rebels can, and would have to rely much more on outside help to supply the heavy weaponry like tanks to fight against the state, which might undermine themselves due to the debt they have to their suppliers.

>>127903803
Clarify what you mean by that, like, do you mean through political pressure and the likes, or do you mean employing PMCs against the state's forces?

>>127890532
Liberty is freedom to both reject as well as accept

You're restricting my freedom to discriminate

Serious question for ancaps because I'm wondering:

What happens to disabled/mentally retarded/unable to work (critical injury) in ancapistan?
Just let them die?
how will capitalism care for them?

>>127905945
>and would have to rely much more on outside help to supply the heavy weaponry
Like any armed force don't see the point

>>127906360
Families or eugenics
You can choose

>>127905380
fair enough. There's no denying he is based and I can respect that

>>127906726
makes sense

Most people will have a problem with this though....

>>127906360
Some my mates aren't redpilled enough for this but the truth is you need churches in ancapistan. They are a privately run charity foundation that has historically helped down and out types.

ron paul has a bit about this and as a cypto-ancap his message applies.

>>127906940
frenchy is right too. bottom line is charity>theft.

>>127906360
private charities, there's no tax and the economy booms so more people have more money to donate to good causes

>b-but they're not guaranteed any gibs!

and people say capitalism was heartless, the thought that people must be forced to """donate""" by the use of force is utterly despicable and defeats the moral value of donation

>>127906559
By that, I mean the militia need to rely on buying such stuff from non-hostile nations/companies, unlike the state attacking them, who are able to provide their own tanks and the likes to their arm forces. Unless the ancaps pay what they owe them in full, they would be in debt to their provider, who can justify a war with the former society if they don't pay back the debt.

>>127906360
What people have said, plus, you could perhaps take out insurance to cover support for subsequent disability or retarded family members.

>>127907207
>>127907155
>>127906726
>>127907723

thanks guys

What about privatised courts
If I pay judges to decide if an action is breaking the NAP, why would they ever rule against my interest?

So private security and private court = can do whatever the fuck I want
>looked funny at me. breaks NAP. die motherfucker

Why would other people accept the courts decisions?

>>127900687
well if it's an outside invasion scenario, people would temporarily unite and fund against it if it means securing their own livelihood. This means concentrating their wealth to purchase mass weapons, war machines, and manpower to defend their home just like any other nation at war. Maybe a temporary contract to unite until the threat has been dealt and peace is restored. You just can't just expect people to give up and surrender everything just because there's no government

an element of national cohesion is still there without necessarily having a government: families and children of freedom, they won't let dare other people take that away from them

>>127907948
much like any court you must present evidence before a jury of some sort and it has to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
could you bribe everyone? maybe.

>>127907948
>If I pay judges to decide if an action is breaking the NAP, why would they ever rule against my interest?

because that sounds like a shitty justice system nobody would trust if things can be purchased into your favor. Just like now. Nobody would trust that system, and people would naturally drift to something that's fair. Currently people don't have this option, they just have to suck up that their court system is trash with no competition to deliver quality service, just people already experienced with how to play an exploited game

>So private security and private court = can do whatever the fuck I want

not necessary, if you break other people's NAP, then you would constitute to be a threat and then be eliminated. All courts follow the NAP, and if they don't, they will cease to have the official recognition needed to really function as a court system because they're blatantly violating a fundamental principle of Ancap

Ancap is freedom from government, not freedom from consequences. If you act like a dick, you just can't pay yourself out of the situation. Other people will act like a dick to you in return, meaning more people would actually be responsible than they already are

>Why would other people accept the courts decisions?

They wouldn't. It's difficult to picture a system that has multiple courts to choose from since we all have grown up with it, but understand that while there may be several predominant established court systems in ancapistan, there still remains the possibility of smaller ones competing against the big fishes offering the best possible service and appeal to justice

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When did we switch to specifically calling it 'right wing libertarian' general? I've reduced my /pol/ usage to happenings-only.

Also what does /lbg/ think of Jordan Peterson? Seems like an exceptionally smart guy, has some great memes too.

>>127908893
>because that sounds like a shitty justice system nobody would trust if things can be purchased into your favor. Just like now. Nobody would trust that system

ya but currently the courts have to follow general agreed upon laws
Without a governement dictating these laws every court could decide in favour of it's funder.

>not necessary, if you break other people's NAP
A court I pay will always say I'm not violating the NAP is what I'm trying to say.
The NAP is way to broadly defined for that.

>possibility of smaller ones competing against the big fishes offering the best possible service and appeal to justice
If you're a small man you'll always lose against interest of people with more purchasing power

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>>127909186
I created the first /lrg/ as far as I know there was a /liberty/ thread prior but no "libertarian general"

the reason for being the libertarian RIGHT general is to welcome more reactionary and conservative ideas, as well as promoting a staunchly anti-left culture and seperating ourselves from socially liberal fiscally conservative/Dudeweed libertarians

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>Be a libertarian society
>Society next door looks like pic related

Wat do?

>>127907971
I do understand that, as a national cohesion prevents the nation from just being civil war central. But they would require outside help for such war machines and mercenaries, which means that they depend on non-hostile nations/companies to survive against aggressors.

Because of that, I believe that any Ancapistan-like society would serve more akin to a buffer state, instead of a more independent superpower or the likes.

>>127907971
>You just can't just expect people to give up and surrender everything just because there's no government
No, but you can expect many of the richest to side with the invaders knowing that they'll be rewarded well once the invasion is successful.

>>127910620
sell them cool shit and leave them be. meanwhile prepare the mcnukes incase shit goes down. our free market would probably give us a technological edge and we could probably have multiple doomsday devices before their 1940's methhead scientists could half-bake a v2 rocket.

>>127909721
>Without a governement dictating these laws every court could decide in favour of it's funder.

if it is known that a certain court is so blatantly corrupt, then other courts will not recognize it, and the people will not use it. Because now it is a private court, it does not make enough money from good service to sustain itself and is driven out the market

the consumers have a say, you know. The idea is that if something doesn't serve the people, it dies. As it is, current courts are there regardless of whether or not it serves the people and whoever has the most money can weasel themselves out of anything. No accountability, no consequences

>A court I pay will always say I'm not violating the NAP is what I'm trying to say.

again, that sounds like a shitty court that will not last long, won't be recognized, and does not serve the people, only individuals with money. That is corruption, and a clear example of inefficiency

>The NAP is way to broadly defined for that.

The NAP, while broad in application, is a fairly straightforward principle: was something done aggressively with violence outside self-defense?

If you rob a man in daylight, with witnesses, and try to use the money you robbed to purchase a high-tier lawyer, you're still going to lose. No amount of loopholes can go against common sense and concrete evidence that you intentionally robbed a man, taking his money without his consent by the use of force or threat thereof.

To say otherwise and say "oh but the rich always gets away with it haha" is just speculation not said in good faith that courts favor justice rather than injustice, and that the common man wishes justice than injustice. It's basically an edgy communist mindset that's self-defeating, because in a big government court system those who have the most money/connections already do get the most benefits

>If you're a small man you'll always lose against interest of people with more purchasing power

Is that an absolute?

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>>127911496
How is your free market giving you a tech edge when your consumerist economy produces people like pic related?

Nazi Germany had the best tech by far. Except the A-bomb of course

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>>127911749
meanwhile, nationalism

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>>127911749
I disagree that the free market creates people who dress like dogs and suck dicks, HOWEVER even if that were true they would be the bottom teir of society, being of no value themselves other than being useful idiots for funding smarter stronger people.

if you're denying the superior productivity of the market just because it puts people in their place then you're straight out wrong. The smart and strong will prosper. they will build the mcnukes and the trannies will slave to fund it.

>>127910868
>But they would require outside help for such war machines and mercenaries, which means that they depend on non-hostile nations/companies to survive against aggressors

How do you know this? What prohibits ancapistan from manufacturing their own arms, weapons, and security measures prior to war or if they anticipate it?

>>127910994
if those rich people favor tyranny over freedom, then their property will be seized, assets frozen, and hell raised by the freedom-loving masses and those that still wish to stick to freedom

This idea that the rich and free man would intentionally give away his freedom if it means being richer in a tyrannical state is silly. The rich would make so much more money in the long run were he to remain free to do with his money and businesses as he pleases, and the rich in ancapistan would know this. Siding with a government, which imposes rules, regulations, and taxation is clearly going against their interest unless given explicit special favors -- the discovery of which, means that the people can usurp that traitor guilt-free

The people are just as committed to freedom as they are committed to making money. Do not assume they would ever trade it away, it is down to the last man, last patriot, to defend this ideal

>>127912456
People need to be part of something. To be given direction, and purpose, and values.

Not everyone is capable of being a fully self-realized, self-actualized individual blazing a path through the free market. Most people are basically sheep that believe what they're told, never challenge social norms, do what authority figures tell them to....etc.

And that's not a bad thing, it's how we evolved. These people are meant to fill out the body politic of a unified nation-state. They need to be led, and defended, and have advocates championing their interests in the harsh world. When you strip away all these social support structures they are totally defenseless. Leaving them the blow in the winds of the market like a tattered flag is incredibly cruel, and not even very efficient.

When people are left to their own indulgences, they consume themselves with their worst impulses. But give them a purpose, and they strive for high ideals. They can achieve great things

>>127911648
Makes sense
I could also imagine the accuser and accused both agreeing to a specific court via treaty so that both can be assured the trial will be fair

>To say otherwise and say "oh but the rich always gets away with it haha" is just speculation not said in good faith that courts favor justice rather than injustice
But why should they? If judges are in it for the money? Again, corruption, I know. But how would anyone ever notice?

>Is that an absolute?
In a society controlled by the free market via currency and only the NAP as a generally accepted rule? probably

>>127911749
You are mistaken, friend. People like those are supported by welfare.

They are the first to be culled once their state-sponsored degeneracy is cut, and the first to starve or flee once it is made clear that in Ancapistan, it rewards traditionalist values instead of mindless consumerism as people commonly assume. Liberty is freedom to discriminate and judge people. The non-productive, the vile, wicked, and sinful will not last long without employment or state-sponsored social safety nets

in addition as far as technology goes, obviously the most innovative are rewarded. Brilliance is not hindered by a state or state regulation. People are free to experiment with whatever dark art usually forbidden by a state -- cloning, genetic engineering, mechanical augmentation, efficiency drugs. The consequences these people face for failure are their own, but the reward for their fruit is for everybody to enjoy once the method and means is perfected and sold.

Science will not need grants. It will only need guts, balls, and the brilliance to go with mad experiments for powerful gain. Mechas, super-soldiers, McNukes, these can all be developed within private property free of external meddling

>>127912582
Because of human nature, as while there is a national identity, there will still be personal divides between different families in the ancap society, while the state can force said families to cooperate for the good of their nation. While Ancapistan would be able to provide small arms and militarised vehicles for themselves (gotta defend the NAP somehow), the ability for a proper government gives them the power to produce military hardware on a larger scale than any ancap society.

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>>127868648

>>127913730
But why would you want to cull them? Why not improve them?

Put a gun in their hand and send them into the military. Put high ideals, virtues, and morals on their TV screen. Give them leaders to look up to. Bring order and stability to the lives of the bums and the dropouts so that they can become forged into better people.

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>>127913156
I agree with everything you said, That's a huge part of why I'm an Anarcho-Capitalist.

Forget the word "anarchy" it has a connotation that represents disorder. I am a capitalist, This has nothing to do with jewish finance, rich fat guys, or degenerate teen pop-stars. Capitalism is voluntary interaction. (this is important) People have natural tendencies to collectivities, have pride in their race, and create a future for themselves. I think that’s fucking beautiful. Thankfully not here, but in Germanistan Germans are legally punished for being proud of their history, their heritage, racial cohesion. I don’t want to stop people from pursuing their destiny.

>>127914674
>collectivize

>Nationalist fashies masquerading as Libertarians
Sad!

>>127913164
>But why should they? If judges are in it for the money?

more than money is on the line. Reputation is one clear example.

>But how would anyone ever notice?

if a court consistently favors special interest people, do you think the unjustly and unfairly treated will just sit back and let it happen?

they will tell the world and go to a different, fairer court. Providing justice is just the most ideal long-term system, rather than a short-term cash bribe

>in a society controlled by the free market via currency and only the NAP as a generally accepted rule?

I disagree. In fact, will venture enough to say that the small man is given better treatment because he has the recognized potential to be just as wealthy someday, instead of condemning people to arbitrary class warfare.

I'm not denying that the rich may have a slight edge, but to say that the poor man is completely, absolutely, and utterly hopeless is nonsense. Truth does not favor money, it favors reality, and the evidence will speak for themselves.

No amount of lawyers can allow a man to rob others in broad daylight despite how wealthy he may be. A lot of the flaws in modern court systems, like constant appointments, processing, loopholes, shitty services in accordance to THEIR laws, or other greedy mechanism for the state to steal more money from people from more bureaucracy are simply disposed of so that actual justice can be swiftly and clearly delivered.

The state benefits from a shitty court system because they make more money from it without consequences, knowing that other people can't go anywhere else. A private court system can't afford to be just as shitty in the long-term, because people can go elsewhere to who can do it better. That's what modern court systems fear: that justice can be done quicker, easier, and without all the hassle towards results all parties can agree with.This drives them mad.

>>127913730
>but the reward for their fruit is for everybody to enjoy once the method and means is perfected and sold
except the people that are left behind by the system right? I mean, fuck you are talking about wiping out humanity through transhumanism. this isn't good for anybody

>>127914674
I don't think you're anarcho, but you may be a capitalist. I have arguments with the capitalist economic model as well

>>127914926
only /leftypol/ users do the
>Sad!
meme. change your meta already.

>>127914943
makes sense actually

thanks for the input!

>>127914536
>the state can force said families to cooperate for the good of their nation.

is this an absolute? are you telling me that families who don't cooperate with the state just give up and don't try to find a way around that?

The state is not a god. It's flaws can be exploited by anyone, and that hurts the common man the most.

>While Ancapistan would be able to provide small arms and militarised vehicles for themselves (gotta defend the NAP somehow), the ability for a proper government gives them the power to produce military hardware on a larger scale than any ancap society.

How do you know this? Is it an absolute that a government ALWAYS has more power to produce military hardware on a large scale than any ancap society?

Ancap societies fare economically better than any other system. With that in mind, some of this economic gains can and will absolutely be directed towards defense. Small arms and a few vehicles isn't seeing the big picture: Private military opens the possibility for masses upon masses of high-tech equipment for ground, air, and sea, produced the same way from private companies. The knowledge is still there, it's not lost just because it's Ancap.

With more resources from a free economy, that means more resources for war. Not just with trading, but in domestic production. People can form temporary contracts to coordinate with each other to minimize any kind of communication inefficiency. As I've said, the people (corporations and businesses included) can join together if it means protecting their homeland. This includes producing the necessary arms and security, state-of-the-art training, firearms, missiles, tanks, planes, ships, etc. included.

>>127915940
it makes sense, and yet it's wrong. I've been a libertarian, the issue here is in their premises

Their analysis of human nature is wrong, that's why their model for society is wrong. They are latching onto one single element of human nature: "humans are greedy", while ignoring the rest. Yes we are greedy, but there's a lot more going on there. We are tribal

>>127915274
>Implying I'm a regular /pol/ user of any stripe
Occassionally pop round when I'm bored of seeing retarded leftists and want to see retarded nationalists

>>127916176
>we are greedy, but there's a lot more going on there
maybe it seems like hmans are super greedy because todays system actually encourages it

>>127915165
I am pure capitalist. No state needed.

I rambled a bit and didn’t get to the practicality of the matter. Don’t mistake a capitalist society as structureless or chaotic. There are natural elites. Some people are a cut above the rest, they will own the land and call the shots. People who do nothing but suck dog dicks and smoke weed all day will never contribute anything to society. And they will suffer because of it. Capitalism is forced altruism, If you don’t give me things I find valuable you will starve, you won’t be able to afford land and so you will have to live on someone else's property, under their law. Obviously sucking dog dicks contributes nothing to society and no one will pay you to smoke weed. Infact weed and dogdick cost money. Even harder to attain if you don't own property and have no skills.

The market isn’t nice, it hates worthless fucks. The market does however LOVE people who work together, and engage in interactions that people naturally find valuable. Anarcho-Capitalism is the ultimate ends of Natural Law and Consequentialism.

>>127916197
I wasn't imply that, I was implying that you're a shit-lib.

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>>127916155
>Is it an absolute that a government ALWAYS has more power to produce military hardware on a large scale than any ancap society?
I mean, no, obviously the mass majority of the population probably has more firepower than any government. But their actions aren't coordinated, they are rabble. They would get chewed to pieces by an actual military force with a structured command heirarchy

The Romans used to fight massive barbarian armies 10 times the size of their legions. And yet, they'd chew through them like butter. Because they had coordinated tactics, plans, and procedures, and the others mostly had homemade weaponry and no clear command strucure

This is an expression of a larger principle. In certain cases, structured group action will dominate any collection of uncoordinated individuals

>>127916712
Nah I'm an ACTUAL libertarian, not a nationalist who jumped on when he realised libertarianism would let him be racist.

>>127912582
>This idea that the rich and free man would intentionally give away his freedom if it means being richer in a tyrannical state is silly.
People signing away their freedom in the hope of being more prosperous is exactly how authoritarian regimes come to power. Those who put principles before material gain are the exception rather than the rule. You appear to have a communist-level idealistic view of human nature.

>>127868648
kys findom cuck

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>>127868648

I think Ted counts as a libertarian, should add him to the approved list if you ask me.

>>127917278

No racially mixed society can be a healthy society, you sound like some kind of anarchist cuck.

>>127916645
I'm not debating that we shouldn't have a free market. I agree with this in principle

But you are missing something here, something very important. There needs to be more than just a market, you need social structures, institutions, militaries....etc

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>>127917278
yeah, whatever. racism is pretty cool. shit-lib.

>>127914619
>But why would you want to cull them?

Because some people can't be improved. They're broken, self-destructive people -- that's what makes them true degenerates, and that's what leads some of them to NEED the state in order to continue living because they simply cannot function anywhere else.

Certainly, we can offer degenerates employment, opportunity, and rehabilitation services IF they choose to give up their habits. But if they don't, if they insist on being degenerates, they're accepting the full consequences of their own actions. And that means abandoning them completely.

>Put a gun in their hand and send them into the military.

So you want degenerates leading your men into battle? Commanding them? Using up your precious resources when they continue to be degenerates outside your watchful eternal eye?

You can't force people not to be degenerates, that only encourages them to hide it and be degenerates when you're not looking. The state isn't omnipotent, and you only breed corruption within your ranks for closet degenerates instead of pure men of hearts that recognize degeneracy for what it is.

>Put high ideals, virtues, and morals on their TV screen.

Which they can turn off.

>Give them leaders to look up to.

Which they can choose to ignore.

>Bring order and stability to the lives of the bums and the dropouts so that they can become forged into better people.

Which isn't a guarantee.

Yes, we can offer them these things, but it cannot be forced so. Some of these bums and dropouts, they choose to be that way. They will only sabotage and waste your efforts. Maybe not immediately upon the first draft, but definitely in the long-term as they become more jaded and resistant to your forceful ways.

We can lead horses to water, but not make them drink. The horses that don't drink are to be separated and left to thirst until they choose to drink. Force-feeding them water only makes them more stubborn.

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You see pic related? It's an actual community, with enforced social norms, codes of conduct, building codes....etc.

Imagine if everyone was going their own way, doing there own thing. Instead of something nice like this, you'd see every single house built a totally different style. Every single yard would be totally different. You wouldn't get a nice view like this. Or any unified community spirit. People would start building walls and isolating themselves from each other, like an American suburb

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How can you claim that taxation is theft, but profit isn't?

It's the same principle. On the one hand, you have government taking a portion of your income. On the other, you have Capitalists taking the surplus value of the worker's labour as profit.

>>127915165
>except the people that are left behind by the system right?

The people that are left behind are choosing to be left behind.

>you are talking about wiping out humanity through transhumanism.

What? I am allowing the possibility of superior people to manifest and act in our interest. If you choose to ignore their possible benefits, that liability is yours, as well as the consequences at losing their perks from cooperation.

I don't see how transumanism "isn't good for anybody". Obviously it's not good for my enemies, but it benefits my people, and the people that about liberty and freedom from tyranny. Personally, I would want transhumanism to be commercialized and perfected: a race of immortal, ultra-intelligent people is truly a force to be reckoned with.

Your hesitation only indicates you're afraid of true power once it arises.

>>127918683
So you're saying people should form covenants where there's groups of people with similar goals and outlooks on social norms and building codes; and those who don't comply to those are physically removed?
Seems like a good idea. I wonder why none of us thought of this?

>>127918192
>some of them to NEED the state in order to continue living because they simply cannot function anywhere else.
I agree entirely

>So you want degenerates leading your men into battle? Commanding them? Using up your precious resources when they continue to be degenerates outside your watchful eternal eye?
the military forges people into leaders, conquerors, and heroes. It turned some penniless failure artist into the fuhrer of Germany.

>Which they can turn off.
Yeah they can, but they don't. In practice, they eat from the trough that is provided to them.

>>127918045
>you need social structures, institutions, militaries....etc
Yes. I know.

I think our misunderstanding is in what the state is. after talking to other national socialists and fascists i’ve found that the “state” to you folk is literally an extension of the people. THEY GOVERN THEMSELVES. Which I would have to agree would be a good thing.

“The state” as we refer to it, should not be mixed up with what we call “government” we like “government” even if it is used as slang for “the state”

“The state” to libertarians like myself is defined by Murray Rothbard in Anatomy of the State. The State is a band of Bankers, Thieves, Murderers and Rapists who distort the natural order. They are evil in practice and intent. They are essentially what you call “the jews” they deny man the right to follow our destiny. TO GOVERN THEMSELVES.

>>127868648
Is (((Milton Friedman))) /lrg/ approved?

>>127900687
If you're seriously interested, give Hoppe's Private Production of Defense a read.

https://mises.org/system/tdf/The%20Private%20Production%20of%20Defense_3.pdf?file=1&type=document

>>127918901
because the capitalists have to pay other people to maintain the macheinery. he doesn't get all the surplus, he just manages it.

>>127916176
People can be both greedy AND tribal. We intend to use that to its fullest advantages for good, instead of wasting it on degeneracy.

Above all, Ancap believes first and foremost that people can be rational. The key word here is "can", because those that "can't", are pruned and abandoned for inefficiency.

>>127916818
>But their actions aren't coordinated

are you implying that people can't be coordinated in Ancap?

Already, your ignorance is evident.

>>127918901
It's voluntary.

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>>127919154
yeah, he's our link to the even better Pinochet.

>>127919300
Why can't the workers just do that? Why can't the worker take all of the value of his labour and invest however much he wants into maintenance of the business? Why does it have to be a top-down system?

>>127919390
>Voluntary
So I assume you just love your job, right?

>>127917317
>You appear to have a communist-level idealistic view of human nature.

Nonsense. I anticipate that some people put material gain above principles, and with that there is action accordingly. I don't expect every piece to magically fall together perfectly. I pick up the pieces that work, and keep them separate from the pieces that are broken. And I then I strengthen the working pieces as much as I can.

Those that betray Ancapistan would not be forgotten, and the consequences of their actions will be made clear along with its execution.

>>127919046
yeah I know, it's called a community

>>127918962
>The people that are left behind are choosing to be left behind.
No they aren't. They don't have the drive to be self-realized people, they need someone leading them and showing them the way. They are like geese without a formation to fly in. Or like a private without a sergeant

>If you choose to ignore their possible benefits
I'm not ignoring them, I'm saying that we need to ensure that it truly does work for OUR benefit. You could replace all of humanity with some superior genetically engineered species of post-human, but why would you want to do that? I care about a future for humans

>THEY GOVERN THEMSELVES.
Been to a trailer park recently? Cops practically need a permanent stakeout to maintain order

>>127919632
>So I assume you just love your job, right?
Yes, I get money to live from it and choose to do so. Don't try twist the meaning of voluntary, you dumbass leftist.

>>127919358
>People can be both greedy AND tribal
Exactly my point. We are not just greedy, we are also tribal. If you base your entire philosophy of governance around one aspect of human nature and ignore the rest, your society is classified as utopian. It won't work in practice

>are you implying that people can't be coordinated in Ancap?
They can be if you try to simulate the state with some kind of weird bizarre system of contracts. But this departs from real humanity, it's pie in the sky stuff. Human beings don't actually operate this way in the real world. We didn't evolve to all be radical individuals carving our own path in the world

>>127916155
>Is this an absolute? are you telling me that families who don't cooperate with the state just give up and don't try to find a way around that?
I mean, there are two choices to such people within the average state: Accept cooperation, and be rewarded with less hardship in life at the cost of taxation, or rebel against them, being treated as a criminal/terrorist, and having to endure with the threat of the state's police/military searching for you to bring you to their version of justice. And more often than not, bread and circuses beats true freedom and liberty.

>How do you know this? Is it an absolute that a government ALWAYS has more power to produce military hardware on a large scale than any ancap society?
That depends. In terms of quantity, the masses would be able to outnumber and outgun the armed forces of the government, but in terms of actual quality, especially in the 21st century, the government would be able to stand against the rabble. While the ancap can field a force comparable to Napoleonic armies, they would falter against trained state soldiers who shoot to kill, driving tanks and bombarding their foes with planes. So again, without outside militaristic help via either a non-aggressive government or PMCs, I don't believe that the ancap society would survive in case of a invasion from a aggressive government-ran neighbour.

>>127919632
>Why can't the workers just do that?
They can. They just don't.

It probably has to do with the fact that managing industy is hard work and some people would rather do 10 hours of work a day and go home and drink a beer rather than being coked up all the time working 20+ hours and dealing with the stress of running every part of an industry.

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>>127914617

>>127919154
mixed feelings because he was positivist but he was far from being the worst

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>>127919798
>Been to a trailer park recently?
The population of a trailer park or an urban hood has nothing to do with the population of society.

>Want fascism? ok you have to build it out of rednecks and niggers to prove its validity.
not a great point m8, do National Socialists NOT govern themselves? who is the puppet master?

>>127919126
>the military forges people into leaders, conquerors, and heroes. It turned some penniless failure artist into the fuhrer of Germany.

that is true, but must be done a voluntary basis. For every penniless failure artists who could become fuhrers, you run the risk of supporting and sustaining countless other failure artists that didn't see the vision of what Germany could really be.

You cannot force people into becoming literally hitler. They must decide upon that themselves.

>Yeah they can, but they don't. In practice, they eat from the trough that is provided to them.

I wasn't saying that what you've suggested wouldn't work, I'm sure plenty of sheep-minded people would follow. But the few that slip through the crack, the few that resist, they must be free to resist and identify themselves so they can be eliminated. Forcibly integrating them only introduces saboteurs and unfaithful soldiers among your ranks. You are recruiting future traitors to the cause.

I wish to make this clear: the endgame for NatSoc and the endgame for Ancap may off as surprisingly similar to most people. Degeneracy is punished and not actively promoted within private property. Only the superior peoples breed for only they are capable of gathering the resources to do so without a state. The inferior and degenerate simply cannot compete in this way, and a strong coherent sense of ethnic identity is maintained voluntarily, physically removing dissidents who foolishly reveal themselves.

The purity and progress of man is still accomplished instead of the stereotypical hedonist paradise most people assume all of Libertarianism consists of.

>>127920769
>That pic
You do realise Leftists were the original Libertarians, right? In fact,Murray Rothbard bragged about co-opting the term from the Left

>>127920132
But the worker in the current Capitalist economy does not receive the full value of his labour. In fact, he doesn't even receive most of it

>>127919798
>No they aren't. They don't have the drive to be self-realized people, they need someone leading them and showing them the way. They are like geese without a formation to fly in. Or like a private without a sergeant

Absolutely. But the few that actively resist, for you cannot assume all of humanity is so weak-willed, they are the troublesome individuals that must be abandoned not accepted into your society to reap your benefits. They will not show themselves if you are forceful and if you threaten violence, but they WILL show themselves under promise of freedom. They are free to reveal themselves, but we are equally free to reject them and watch them suffer under the weight of their own insolence.

>You could replace all of humanity with some superior genetically engineered species of post-human, but why would you want to do that?

Not all of humanity, certainly, but I would do it to a large extent if it means they can secure freedom for the few humans that remain.

>I care about a future for humans

Sometimes I ponder if whether or not it is preferable to remain a beast burdened with biological functionalities, or if ascending to something greater is worth it. Time will tell.

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>>127921009
Yeah, but people associate the term with us now. You guys own "anarchism" now.

>>127921548
That just sounds like Conservatism to me

Lads, I think I'm starting to go from an edgy natsoc to an edgy anarcho-capitalist. I bought Hazlit's Economics In One Lesson and Hoppe's Democracy: the god that failed.

>>127920026
>If you base your entire philosophy of governance around one aspect of human nature and ignore the rest

The rest are not "ignored". Nothing is ignored. Everything is just voluntary, and the principles are acted on accordingly.

>They can be if you try to simulate the state with some kind of weird bizarre system of contracts.

And what would be wrong with that?

The system is difficult to imagine at first, but naturally inefficiency is phased out if it's not mandatory by a state and a more fluid, functional system would be in place.

>But this departs from real humanity, it's pie in the sky stuff.

Signing a contract isn't a pie in the sky, nor does it depart from humanity.

>Human beings don't actually operate this way in the real world.

Why not?

>We didn't evolve to all be radical individuals carving our own path in the world

Who is this "we"?

I want these "radical" individuals who have self-awareness to be voluntarily governing the individuals who lack self-awareness. By carving their own paths in the world, individually they carve meaninglessly. Together, united by freedom, they carve for the benefit of those who agree to join them, and to those that pursue freedom.

Tyrants on the other hand, well, as they say: sic semper tyrannis.

>>127921169
sure, but he can overcome that barrier. He can save his wealth so that it is easier in the future to manage the means of production. I understand your point, that being poor is soul crushing. Life is suffering, we can only try and change our own future by altering the present. the best way to do that is to save resources for later.

I want to get into your theory of value/labor, could you try to capsulize the theory for me?

>>127921942
it is explicitly conservative, yes.

>>127920849
>Only the superior peoples breed for only they are capable of gathering the resources to do so without a state. The inferior and degenerate simply cannot compete in this way
The problem with this is that in private property free market capitalism, what's "superior" and "inferior" is defined completely differently.
You are superior if your equity and your capital gains are greater than your competitors.
You are inferior if your equity and your capital gains are lesser than your competitors.

>a strong coherent sense of ethnic identity is maintained voluntarily
You cannot voluntarily convince the future generations to maintain it. The ethnic identity will crumble after the generations that establish your society die off, as ethnic identity doesn't create profit and anyone devoting effort towards it is disadvantaging themselves against the ones who don't.

>>127922132
>"Live free under the boot of government"-Statists
>"Live free under the boot of Capitalists"-Right Libertarians
>"Live free"-Anarchists

>>127922317
>"Live free under the boot of chaos"-Anarchists

FTFY

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>>127922317

>>127922317
If you wanna start you jungle tree huging tribe in a private florest, who's going to stop you?

>>127922317
are you opposed to all hierarchy? Are you opposed to all inequality?

>>127922269
Well, it's not *my* theory, but I can expand here for you.

The Left-Anarchist critique of wage-labour relations boils down to its core with the idea of surplus value. This is most recognisably the Marxist critique.

'Surplus value' is what we now call profit. Essentially, the worker creates far more in value than he actually receives back from his boss. Say a McDonald's worker produces fifteen burgers in an hour each priced at €2. That's €30 worth of value created in an hour, yet the worker only receive €8 from his boss. That means that the boss has skimmed €22 in profits from the worker's labour. The boss has in effect stolen the labourer's time, as he has a finite life and has put time into making those burgers, most of which he will not get back.

So, Anarchists are divided on what to do about this. Some advocate fro the abolition of wage labour, but I disagree. I say we replace it with vouchers. The workers own the means of production, and get vouchers based on the labour value they produce in one hour (hourly "wage"). The labourer can then choose to invest these coupons into the company if he wants, and he comes away with a lot more value in his pocket either way.

>>127922589
>chaos is shod in boots

>>127922186
Good. Don't stop.

Panarchist here; why not every man a king?

>>127920094
>there are two choices to such people within the average state

That is a false dichotomy. Cooperation is not "accepted" within a state, it is thrusted upon individuals regardless if they care to or not. Dissent is met with violence. That taxation is certainly not "accepted", it is a standard imposed on others with a heavy hand.

Why not the best of both worlds, and develop a voluntary covenant that rewards less hardship while providing the benefits of freedom?

>the government would be able to stand against the rabble.

Again, how do you know this? What prohibits this "rabble" from developing, producing, and manufacturing the same if not greater military strength than any government?

They can form temporary cooperative measures. Cooperation and unity are not problems in time of war.

>While the ancap can field a force comparable to Napoleonic armies, they would falter against trained state soldiers who shoot to kill, driving tanks and bombarding their foes with planes

And how do you know ancap forces won't have their own trained soldiers, born to shoot to kill, driving tanks, and bombarding their foes with planes?

They have the money. They have the time. If war is anticipated, they can definitely mass prepare themselves accordingly just like any nation without having a government.

>So again, without outside militaristic help via either a non-aggressive government or PMCs

How do you know that these outside militaristic help or non-aggressive government/PMCs are even necessary?

An Ancap society can still form the arms necessary to meet opposition, if not exceed them in military prowess. I see nothing that necessarily prohibits this from occuring.

>I don't believe that the ancap society would survive in case of a invasion from a aggressive government-ran neighbour.

If an Ancap society can see their neighbor amassing for war, they will do the same, if not better. And they will fight to the death, to the last man if it means keeping their freedom.

>>127923155
>They have the time. If war is anticipated, they can definitely mass prepare themselves accordingly just like any nation without having a government.

This works so well in Africa

>>127922186
>>127923115
After the edgy stages you graduate to pragmatic and philosophical NatSoc

>>127868648
June 10th, Houston TX Antifa are planning to protest the Sam Houston statue at Herman park. Counter demonstations have been planned. goybook dot com events/263150144151714
Remove communists, not statues

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>>127923027
Is it immoral for me to choose to labor for less value than i create?

Meaning on my own terms, not like a situation where im fucked and have no choice. Is it wrong to choose less?

The libertarian party has been infiltrated by a bunch of conservatives.

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>>127922186
Anarcho-capitalism is the logical conclusion you reach if you study economic history. Milton Friedman's ideas are really the last chance for an economic argument for the government and they have largely failed too (his son is an anarcho-capitalist fyi). If you consider human nature in any governing idea, you just can't justify having humans centrally control anything. Once you give humans central control of a society, you always see it creep towards an inefficient, corrupt, and authoritarian society that caters to the rich, leaders, and the people with "connections". History consistently shows this happening over and over and over again.

>>127923512
Well, morality is subjective. Some might say yes, and others might say no. It's up to you to decide that.

>>127923155
Is your theory that for the last 6,000 years of human history, the governments have been oppressing people unnecessarily, since they could have organized voluntary societies on their own that would function and advance at the same or greater level?

>>127923578
and leftist too.

>>127923512
>Is it wrong?
Is it wrong to sabotage your own interests yes, but not in any abstract moral way. Your question is just a problematic use of language.

>>127923716
That's where I am on the fence to some degree. I think we definitely can implement an Ancap society now (thanks to things like the internet and blockchain); however, I believe it could be argued against more effectively in the past. This doesn't mean that it wouldn't be possible, but I just think it's 1000 times more possible in the modern era.

>>127922291
Yes, but those are superior in capitalism tend to be superior in general no matter how you put it. They have higher IQ, higher drive, are able to better manage resources, cooperate, and plan accordingly to circumstances.

You cannot tell me that an inferior degenerate in a capitalism system is somehow the superior ideal man elsewhere. In communism, maybe, because their ideal man IS an inferior man, but that's beside the point.

>You cannot voluntarily convince the future generations to maintain it.

Why not?

Their fathers can teach them. The society can teach them. If they disobey, they are free to do so, but they no longer receive the benefits of what their father and society offered.

>The ethnic identity will crumble after the generations that establish your society die off,

How do you know this?

>as ethnic identity doesn't create profit and anyone devoting effort towards it is disadvantaging themselves against the ones who don't.

But ethnic identity DOES create profit. It's not profitable in the slightest to introduce people to management who aren't accustomed to your ways or similar to your values -- they would be massively incompetent, and is largely why affirmative-action hiring doesn't work. Niggers and degenerates simply don't share the same values as successful people. That's not to say that you can't still trade with shitskins, but you're not accepting their ethnic identity. You're just trading.

A strong ethnic identity that incorporates capitalism, that is one that will prosper.

>>127924160
Humans are evolving to be far less violent as time goes on as well (there was a study over this a few years ago). That also helps support the idea that an ancap society would be best in modern times.

>>127923311
>niggers

what else did you expect

No system can redeem those savages without outside intervention. They're a lost cause, but good for resources with the few smart enough willing to trade

>>127923741
I do mean in an abstact moral way. Do not have a sense of morality? Is your worldview materialistic, meaning no meta-physics, no abstract consciousness. Just matter?

>>127923608
And national socialism is the logical conclusion once you study all the other aspects of human society as well, instead of just economics.

>you just can't justify having humans centrally control anything
I can justify it by pointing out how that system is still more efficient than any others we've come up with. Hence WHY that pattern of creeping towards inefficiency and corruption over and over again exists all throughout history whilst your system doesn't.

>>127924448
In an ancap society you just buy all their property from them (if they own any) and then they'd have to go back to Africa. Problem solved.

>>127923027
This idea is backwards because you're not paid for the actual hours you work nor a work is as valueable as others. The production of holes on the road with fists would require many hours of work but who would buy this?
We have tools today that makes this job easier, but these tools requires the worker, or his boss, to buy them. If they can buy them, it's because these tools were already done in the first place and they have the savings needed to buy these tools. To make tools you need investment. Investment comes from savings or the profit of another investment, the farthest you go back and more investments you see with savings. To save money is a choice of not buying something now to have more avaiable in the future. But the consumer might not accept this service because he doesn't gives value to a street full of holes. Even if he finds a consumer, it is not the hours of work that he works that gives value to his work but the will of the consumer.
The guy who makes haburguers didn't made the investments. That's why he works there as an employee. Which part of this story is not fair?

>>127924607
That may be true. We'd just have to try both out in a similar area and see the results.

>>127923716
Yes, they technically could of, but Ancap requires to a degree the intelligence enough for enough rational people in charge. Not to mention, the technological tools needed for it to be efficient.

I'm not denying that the state has played an important role in history. What I object however, is if in the modern day such a burden is to continue indefinitely. I'm no revisionist. I look forward, not back.

>>127924639
oh please like those niggers will even recognize property rights like that. They will chimp out if their leader sells land to help their people because their land is now suddenly owned by da white man

best to just cut government-sponsored foreign aid and let them die until enough intelligent resource niggers survive to finally cooperate in the interest of their people. You have no idea how bad foreign-aid has been in enabling these niggers to continue nigging. It's like welfare on a continental-level

>>127924773
You're operating under the assumption that only a boss can invest. Why can't workers invest by taking all of the value of their production? Why does the surplus value have to move up a hierarchy to a guy at the top before investment can be made? It's not as if more money is generated out of thin air as it moves up the hierarchy. It's the same amount in profits.

It's just a matter of cutting out the middle man

>>127923155
>That is a false dichotomy. Cooperation is not "accepted" within a state, it is thrusted upon individuals regardless if they care to or not.
It's still a binary-ish decision, to either work within the government's rules, or to go against them. You could have someone violate someone else's NAP by driving through their lands without permission, but if the former was driving a tank, and the latter only has non-AP small arms, he would have to accept said NAP being violated in order to not be murdered to trying to violate their own NAP of being able to live life.

>And how do you know ancap forces won't have their own trained soldiers, born to shoot to kill, driving tanks, and bombarding their foes with planes?
Because what's to stop them from forcing their demands upon the other ancaps? They would have a advantage over the average Ancapistan civilian, which they could use to exploit them for wealth, with no need to repay them somehow like with governments and taxation. Even if the ancaps did agree to take out this trained brigand, it would basically be the tall poppy syndrome, preventing them from having a strong army-esqe militia.

>How do you know that these outside militaristic help or non-aggressive government/PMCs are even necessary?
Because, even if the ancap militia is well armed and well trained, it is always worth having some aid against the enemy state. It is always better to ensure that victory is easier to gain for you than for your foe.

>>127924182
>Why not?
Because the child can't voluntarily receive those lessons from his father or from society.
If you somehow manage to instill that process into a society, it's no different than the indoctrination in the state-owned schools in NatSoc.

>How do you know this?
Because I'm watching it happen in my country right now. Profits have taken precedence over ethnicity, and now the ethnicity is on its deathbed.

>It's not profitable in the slightest to introduce people to management who aren't accustomed to your ways or similar to your values
It doesn't have to be management. Look at the plantation economy of the South pre-civil war.

>A strong ethnic identity that incorporates capitalism
It won't prosper as much as one that incorporates a system that doesn't needlessly handicap it.
There is so much potential thrown away in capitalism on the premise that people who aren't "successful" obviously just aren't cut out for it.

>>127924788
Actually that's a pretty great idea. That way whichever one doesn't work as well can get rescued by the one that works best.

>>127925497
They could be forcibly removed from private property that is not theirs.

>>127924788
I'd be fine with a part of the US being designated as territory for an ancap society. As long as it remains 100% voluntary and we can make sure anyone who wants to leave is given the means to.
That'd go for the children as well.

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>>127926126
NatSoc should move to europe, it is the white homeland after all. America is the homeland of liberty!

>>127870846
What about "The Great Southern Genocide" by Augustus Sol Invictus

>>127926469
I'm afraid not. Homeland doesn't matter much in this regard, even though I know a lot of NatSocs are the isolationist type.

>>127925650
All savings came from investments. What happened is that there was a time when no one hired anyone(in the market) and the first profit were being made out of commerce of agricultural goods, for example. So, this farmer got his money after selling his goods and he did it for a fair amount of time. He saved a lot from this, delaying reward he could have with this money.

Then, he finally did something with his money, he bought a larger farm and hired 4 guys to do the job in his farm and he paid them a wage.

>Why can't workers invest by taking all of the value of their production?
Because the farmer made the investment FIRST, therefore, the farm and the tools he has is his property. But, being smart, he knows he can hire 4 guys and they can do the job and produce a larger amount of goods and have a larger profit. Since all the employees agreed with this, it is clear that a wage is not unfair.

>Why does the surplus value have to move up a hierarchy to a guy at the top before investment can be made?
Our farmer in this case had the idea that buying a farm and hiring 4 guys would result in profit, the profit is not guaranteed. He made the investment first, he took this risk. If he decided to have beans instead of rice, he make the investment first, he doesn't know the price of the goods being produced now in the future. Despite this, the workers are being paid for their work now. If the farmer fails and the price of the beans isn't enough to cover his costs, he will be bankrupt. In this case he will likely fire the workers or maybe rent his farm.

redpill me on natural monopolies.

>>127925696
>You could have someone violate someone else's NAP by driving through their lands without permission, but if the former was driving a tank, and the latter only has non-AP small arms, he would have to accept said NAP being violated in order to not be murdered to trying to violate their own NAP of being able to live life.

I can sort of see the thought process behind this, yes, but during a time of war things are different. I'm certain that the person's NAP violated to protect the NAP could receive compensation after war, especially if it is written exactly so according to the signed contracts.

>Because what's to stop them from forcing their demands upon the other ancaps? They would have a advantage over the average Ancapistan civilian, which they could use to exploit them for wealth, with no need to repay them somehow like with governments and taxation

If they break the NAP, then the others will be quick to neutralize them as a threat. People can arm themselves to the teeth if they wished; if they exercise it however, is a completely different matter.

>Even if the ancaps did agree to take out this trained brigand, it would basically be the tall poppy syndrome, preventing them from having a strong army-esqe militia.

I don't see how this leads to them not having a strong military force. Just because you have a gun, doesn't mean you have to use it outside self-defense. People arming themselves doesn't necessarily mean they will use their firearms maliciously or to oppress other people.

If they do, well, then there's consequences.

>Because, even if the ancap militia is well armed and well trained, it is always worth having some aid against the enemy state. It is always better to ensure that victory is easier to gain for you than for your foe.

There's no denying that, but you make it seem as if it is an absolute necessity. It may help, sure, but could an ancap society hold its own? Absolutely.

>>127926996
so we'll both be in america and the muslims will get to rape Europe. You guys gotta go back and save them. Homeland is important. You don't understand how much america means to us.

American Nationalism is Libertarian

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>>127926469
Yep, this works for me.

>On a side note, I think the vastly different origin of the USA is the main reason why US right-wingers are almost all libertarians and EU right-wingers are almost all NatSoc.

>>127927147
To be clear: the farmer has the possibility of profit but also the possibility of loss.

>>127925760
>it's no different than the indoctrination in the state-owned schools in NatSoc.

The child, after growing up, can freely reject whatever is taught to them. That is freedom.

>Profits have taken precedence over ethnicity, and now the ethnicity is on its deathbed.

Yes, and what feeds this machine? What backs up this self-destructive profit?

The state that reinforces, propagates, regulates, subsidizes, buy-outs, and support such degeneracy on a national level as well as the essentially state-sponsored media that brainwashes the masses into accepting it.

The problem is not profit, it is government seeking to establish greater reign and control from having diversity quotas, affirmative-action, welfare, and other shenanigans like climate change to harden its grip on the free man.

>It doesn't have to be management. Look at the plantation economy of the South pre-civil war.

Slavery is inherently against the NAP because people didn't voluntarily agree to it. The pre-civil war South is a poor example.

>people who aren't "successful" obviously just aren't cut out for it.

People who are successful are successful for a reason.

>>127926052
true, but that just leads to more pointless nigger wars because they will never act in their best interest and just fucking cooperate

>>127927678
>American Nationalism is Libertarian
This sums it up better then I did.

>>127880975
>tries to debunk anarcho-capitalism
>describes anarcho-capitalism as a natural state
kek! you're wrong, minarchism is the natural state. anyone with coins is bullshit.

>>127924859
Looking back's important before you look forward. I'm approaching it from a Darwinian point of view. If the state is a burden like you say, why has it persisted so absolutely? In every other case, less efficient systems get replaced by improvements, and this is how human civilization's advanced.
Like from tribes to city-states to kingdoms and empires.

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>>127896668
Completing:

Van Dun, Spooner, Molinari, Kuehnelt-Leddihn, Nozick, Bertrand de Jouvenel, (((Raymond Aron))), Böhm-Bawerk, Cantillon (The true founder of modern economic science, much superior to adam shitmith), Kinsela, Juan de Mariana, Thomas Woods, Mallock, H L Mencken, Voegelin

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Co(27),V(23),Fe(26),Fe(26)

2+7+2+3=14
2+6=8
2+6=8

1488! Now some pasta I liked from an earlier thread

Covfefe, broken into its chemical numbers, and put on google, brings you an article about the genetic make-up of Frog's gender, that is somehow related to Dawkins' Selfish Genes, which was where the concept of memes was born.


So it's an artile about the memetic of frogs, that opposes the SJW conclusions that there is not such thing as genes (and therefore: that memes don't exist: the war between the Alt-right and SJWS is not about our genetic condition, it's about Meme magic!)
When put on Bing, the same number brings to a video of Chemical Romance, which in turn serves as a corroboration of the chemical hypothesis that led this research. The song, obviously, is about Time-travel and the birth of a Saviour of the broken.

Now, the article was posted the very same day Obama visited Hiroshima, and covfefe was posted the night one of Hiroshima's most famous victim died. Trump is trying to tell us something about the nuclear armaageddon.
Remember: in september 2017: the Vurgin constellation will have twelve stars above her head, the moon and the sun on her feet, and Jupiter ( King of Kings aka Jesus) on her womb, an event that hasn't occured in 5000 Years. This is the exact same configuration as the one descibed in Revalations. And what is the name of this event? The Bible calls it: The day Of the Trumps.

It is also known as Armageddon, whose name comes from Meggido: who was the god of the people of Meggido, where the last battle of Good vs Evil, the Trump of the Angels versus Satan will take place? According to the Bible, that god is called MOAB.

Which is the name of the Bomb Trump used to destroy IS once and for all.
Think of it as you will, but think freely.

>>127928145
>If the state is a burden like you say, why has it persisted so absolutely?

Because like from a Darwinian point of view, things lasts until it doesn't. That time is now.

>In every other case, less efficient systems get replaced by improvements, and this is how human civilization's advanced.

Precisely why Democracy and the state must be disposed of.

>Like from tribes to city-states to kingdoms and empires.

Yes, from Aristocracy, to Monarchy, to Democracy. It's a clear tale of moral and economic folly and decay.

There is a trend in history, and that is more freedom is granted as time progresses. We are now at the point of democracy, of soft communism after an age where relevant people seriously and unironically considered the possibility of hard communism. Instead, the hour is coming upon us, where we must progress towards the next step of not just greater clarified economic efficiency, but the next step in freedom.

>>127879506

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>>127870914
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEiQMpfRQzk
>physical hoppe

although it's short, pls add this gem to song lost

>>127927564
>People arming themselves doesn't necessarily mean they will use their firearms maliciously or to oppress other people.
But others may take it as a threat, who would take up arms and strike against them preemptively in order to defend their own NAP from possible infringement, or cause a arms race which would increase inter-societal tension between the ancaps until the former happens.

>There's no denying that, but you make it seem as if [outside aid] is an absolute necessity. It may help, sure, but could an ancap society hold its own?
Well, I will say it depend on those who are invading. An oppressive dictatorship ran by warlording 'niggers' might collapse into itself if they attempted a invasion, but any state that has the means to fuel the engine of war from their own resources, even if smaller than the Ancapistan, will succeed in wiping their freedom away under a properly united standing army, especially if its people have no objection to war against the ancaps.

>>127929689
THIS IS NOW A LIBERTARIAN MUSIC THREAD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNmZCSFGeco

>>127928145
>why has it persisted so absolutely?

Because most people are little more than well trained herd animals who are unwilling and/or unable to think for themselves.

>>127927756
And does your Ancap society tolerate free discussion of ideas? If so, how is that any different from what you're talking about with our people being brainwashed today? Is it not both freedom?
The government can be lax on illegal immigration but it isn't making the companies hire those illegals.

>The pre-civil war South is a poor example.
It's not about the slavery itself, it's about how they prioritized making money over having a white society.
That's the mindset that capitalism fosters.

>People who are successful are successful for a reason.
Yes, for example:
Because they were born to rich parents.
Or because they had someone in their family who owned a local business.
Or because they were willing to destroy other people's lives to further themselves.
You understand now? These are "successful" people in capitalism.
In NatSoc, they are not, and that is the critical distinction that makes it more efficient.

>>127929973
I don't understand anything he says but Brazilian ancaps sound badass as fuck

>>127929822
>But others may take it as a threat, who would take up arms and strike against them preemptively

Arming oneself is not a threat. It''s a freedom for them to do so. Striking preemptively however, almost always breaks the NAP and there are consequences.

>cause a arms race

I see nothing wrong with this. People arming themselves is a good thing. It's their god-given, unalienable freedom to self-defense and to ownership.

>which would increase inter-societal tension between the ancaps until the former happens

How do you know that it would "increase inter-societal tension"? People arming themselves is freedom. It is to be expected. You would be a fool not to arm yourself.

>any state that has the means to fuel the engine of war from their own resources, even if smaller than the Ancapistan, will succeed in wiping their freedom away under a properly united standing army

I am sorry, but again I must ask: How do you know this, and is it an absolute?

Ancapistan can arm herself just fine, and would be more than ready mass enough military means to repel invasion. I see no reason whatsoever, why it can't have or exceed, the military capabilities of other modern nations. Tanks, plans, ships, battlecruisers, bombers, etc. these can all be manufactured and developed independently of a state. It just comes down to the money, and if you are saying that a state is more efficient in managing money than a society made to be as efficient as possible with money, you would be dead wrong.

Perhaps this has to be proven in actual war between an Ancap society and a state, and we'll cross that bridge when we get there.

File: d98.jpg (13KB, 220x276px) Image search: [Google]

13KB, 220x276px

>>127868648

What a shit image to use as the OP for a Libertarian thread. You don't fucking kill people just because they're leftists. My philosophy is "leave me alone and I'll leave you alone"; you wanna be a commie leftist, fucking go for it, it's your right, exercise it as much as you want as long as you don't actively fuck up the lives of anyone else. Just having a different ideology is not justification for murder. That is the opposite of Libertarianism. As long as they're not hurting anyone, live and let live. I'm not gonna police or interfere with anyone else's behaviors or lives unless they're interfering with my own.

in b4 I'm called some leftist cuck for defending this extremely basic pillar of Libertarianism.

>>127929245
>Precisely why Democracy and the state must be disposed of.
Democracy of course. The state? You've yet to prove how it's less efficient. You say the time is now but I see nothing that indicates this.

>There is a trend in history, and that is more freedom is granted as time progresses.
Have you noticed how that trend has progressed side by side with the trend of multiculturalism and degeneracy?