The Holocaust Debate

>>127821475
Copy pasta.

1) You do realize that the “famed German efficiency” is a myth and that you had a smattering of different bureaucrats who were trying to compete for Hitler's favor, some by mass executions, some by production?

2) Because the term “holocaust” hadn't been associated with the mass killings yet. Churchill, by the way, does mention that. For instance

>"The wholesale massacre by systematized processes of six or seven millions of men, women, and children in the German execution camps exceeds in horror the rough and ready butcheries of Genghis Khan, and in scale reduces them to pygmy proportions. Deliberate extermination of whole populations was contemplated and pursued by both Germany and Russia in the Eastern war." -THE SECOND WORLD WAR “The Gathering Storm” page 15

3)Because “Auschwitz” wasn't a single camp so much as a collection of over 50 camps, not all of which were stuffed with Jews to be exterminated. The brothel, for instance, was primarily for the use of the SS staff.

4) Because A) “German efficiency” is largely a myth, B) You had a rather significant number of Jews from nominally allied nations such as Hungary and Romania where the SS had no jurisdiction, and C) Einsatzgruppen units who had embarked on wholesale massacres had notably higher rates of erratic behavior and alcoholism, something they wanted to cut down on.

5) You mean like Hans Frank's Diaries? Or this? http://i.imgur.com/i8b9bc2.jpg

6) Because the 6 million claim was never based on the Soviet estimate of the 4 million at Auschwitz, which was considered dubious from the get-go. It is rather based on population reduction, which is a bit harder to get around.

7) Not all of German codes were cracked. However, enough were that the Germans spent considerable effort constantly updating codes. It's something that happens during wartime. Furthermore, given that the Final Solution was embarked upon when the tide of war had already turned against the Germans, it's not much of a stretch to think they were worried about their own skins come eventual defeat.

8) You do realize they made drainage ditches, right?

http://web.archive.org/web/20130721122315/http://www.vho.org/tr/2003/1/Image1006.gif

9) Oh yes, the “mere” 50% fatality of places like Dachau is proof positive they weren't extermination camps. Yeah, your odds were better there than at say, Treblinka, but that's not saying much.

10) They used a little something called a “pump” to push the poisonous air out and bring in the fresh air. Hydrogen cyanide gas execution is still used in places like New Mexico. Do you think that they wait a day to bring out the corpse when they administer capital punishment?

11) Except the soap thing did happen. Danzig anatomical institute made about 70 kg of human body fat soap. Was it churned out in industrial quantities? No. But did it exist? Yes.

12) Because of the claim that the “steam chamber” execution and the electrical grids were made by people who were not camp insiders and did not have perfect knowledge as to what happened. It was hardly the sole evidence that hanged people at Nuremberg.

14) As mentioned above, Auschwitz was more than just Birkenau. By the way, he does mention the gas chambers, and how his mother and sister went to them, although he only found out their significance later. Not actually having been gassed, he wasn't a first-hand witness to the inside of one.

15) Really? For instance, Night makes no mention of Mengele.

16) You mean “according to Nazi travel documentation demonstrating how almost a million people went there and none of them left”. And really, what is this so-called “Extensive sonar probing”? It's been declared a memorial and you're not supposed to disturb it, anyone attempting to make such findings is dodging whatever security they have in the place.

17) No, proof of the Holocaust rests primarily in demographic decline.

18) Because not every country shares American attitudes towards free speech.

19) No, it's about as dumb as flat earther or moon landing hoaxing. Really, what leading revisionists have “advanced degrees from world leading universities”?

20) Because nobody denies the existence of the ACW.

21) Because modern crematoria are concerned with little things like making sure the body ashes are contained neatly and not letting shit dissipate to the wind. The Nazis? Not so much.

By the way, what happened to #13?

>>127828790
>holocaust
>debate

Bombed supply lines/typhus/ (((victors))) write history

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>>127828790

cheers, portubro

https://siraaronrichards.imgur.com

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>>127828876
>>127828900
>>127828950
Kike alert

The Holocaust is an argument from silence fallacy. At best, an estimation with no real evidence of the millions upon millions who died. Which is also known as an unfalsifiable claim. "We know millions died in the Lollercaust because people claimed to have seen it occur. But don't actually investigate the mass graves or exhume the bodies".
It's a circular argument relying on documents to prove their own legitimacy. Willingly taking documents at face value (or downplaying the standard of evidence) is the only argument. That, and ad-homs/making inquiry illegal.

>>127828790
We still have polish survivors from camps.

All of them said that there was almost no jews, and if they were, they always worked with germans as guards & shit.

You can find it only on internet tho. Media wont allow goyms to know the truth.

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>>127829058
:(


Also since this is a holocaust thread do stormthralls want proof the genocide of Slavs happened as well since the retarded stormboos in natsoc generals seem to be triggered whenever I bring that topic up.

>>127829058

>posting an image without being able to provide proof for the claim contained therein

welp, I guess it must be true since someone took the trouble of making it, and another went out of his way to save it and upload it.

>>127829335
>welp, I guess it must be true because lots of people claiming something occurred=truth
Appealing to the majority's belief does not make it so, either. But don't extend your own line of reasoning to your own assertions.

>>127829335
Let's face it.

This is definitely the latter. Poor 9PK there probably can't even spell a few of those words without using google

>>127829307
You can prove the nationality of the girls in that photo?

Think about the absurdity of what you are claiming. Do you have even the slightest idea how many Russians the Soviets themselves had executed? What about the Germans that the Poles were killing prior to the German invasion?

Civilians die in war, and died on all sides of that conflict. You can't just post a photo and claim it represents this or that without any evidence or proof of who those people are. We need landmarks, soldiers / perpetrators in the photo, etc..

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>>127829435

Your post could have better served us if you actually brought forth citation that no more than 2.4 million jews were residing in german occupied Europe, but you didnt. oh well.

>>127829531
>What about the Germans that the Poles were killing prior to the German invasion?

Naziboos still pushing this factually desolate and dead meme

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>b-but I heard 6 million died in the holocaust!
Normies swallow 6 gorillion because they never critically examine such a grisly topic, believing (((Hollywood))) and Allied history is 100% factual

>b-but what about the Nuremberg trials! Some Nazis admitted war crimes, so it must be true Hitler had a Final Solution to kill all the Jews!
Allies tortured German POWs. Gerstein claimed 25 million were killed, does that sound believable? At Dachau Nazis had their testicles kicked in and crushed beyond repair

At Auschwitz, (((Soviets))) said 4 million died in gas chambers. Today, the death toll sits at 1.1 million (from ALL causes), though still grossly inflated going by Red Cross reports
>Auschwitz - Why The Gas Chambers Are A Myth:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PE56dcgGVMs

>b-but it wasn't just Auschwitz!
At Majdanek, (((Soviets))) said 2 million were killed in gas chambers.
Now they say <60,000 died (primarily of disease). Red Cross estimated 8,800
>The Majdanek Gas Chamber Myth:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDsJtB2F9i8

>b-but the Reinhard death camps: Treblinka, Sobibor, and Belzec!
There is little to support the claim that tens of thousands, let alone 1.3 MILLION died
>1/3rd of the Holocaust (debunked):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dxsVSzL4HE

>b-but Nazis made lampshades out of tattooed Jewish inmates!
The lampshade myth comes from a propaganda film made to de-Nazify Germany by a US Psych Warfare unit
>Buchenwald: A Dumb Dumb Portrayal of Evil:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HlPcaP9x5o

>b-but I've seen Steven Spielberg's Survivors of the Shoah!
Watch the following
>The Last Days of the Big Lie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80GgRWuXcO8

>o-ok, let's suppose you're right. Why does it matter?!
It matters because no one can criticize the Jews without being labeled an anti-semite. Denial is ILLEGAL in 20 countries
>The JQ:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKy3fCvMz-8

>>127829644
well, you certainly convinced me that those anonymous girls were who you said they were! solid evidence, A+, would read again!

for all you know, those are Germans who were attacked by Soviet troops as the war was ending and they were fleeing

>>127829531
>What about the Germans that the Poles were killing prior to the German invasion?

Yeah the only real proof (I'd say) that happened is any sort of testimony of German survivors, so you got that?

Also.. "Kazimiera Mika, a ten-year-old Polish girl, mourns the death of her older sister, who was killed in a field near Jana Ostroroga Street in Warsaw during a German air raid by Luftwaffe."

Also want me to dump nazi quotes about how they talked about the ethnic cleansing of eastern europe from Slavs? Would that trigger you? If so then I'll be compelled to post it just to destroy the nazi lies spouted on this board.

>>127829571
I am not defending the assertion. I am extending your own apparent distaste for faulty logic to your own points.
Estimations are not arguments for intellectual rigour/concrete certainty. An argument from silence is not "soundproof logic". Circular logic/documents that prove their own feasibility is a genetic fallacy. Claiming that the documents Germans sent back and forth about the millions who were executed are truthful because the Germans said so is a genetic fallacy. Not really a good point unless you investigate into the testimony that is put forth or the documents that are put forth to see if they are actually telling the truth about 'x'. If I have a Soviet document claiming millions died, it isn't substantiated just because Soviet expats claimed it happened or the Soviet regime said it did: we actually have to investigate the claim at-question. They certainly had the resources and technology to investigate such claims, yet any inquiry is called "bigoted". Or illegal.

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>>127829738

>he resorts to copy-pasting his same post from the old thread.

fine, I'll link to my reply then.

>>127822492

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You shills get out of this board

>>127829039
who killed them?

the Soviets are known to have purged tens of thousands of Poles, and their preferred method was lining people up in a ditch and shooting them

Stalin has mass graves near Kiev, for instance, a photo like this does not prove who killed them

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>>127830016
You'll find I corrected the error (re: Gerstein)

My mistake, like I said. However it doesn't really change the point, which is that Nazis were tortured and their testimony is unreliable.

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>>127829307
I wanna know what holohoaxers think about the slavocide. Slavs were killed in similar numbers to jews, officially.

>>127829844
where did you get that caption, did you pull it out of your asshole? provide a link to a legitmate source or GTFO

WWII never happened.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-UFlHtWrLA

>>127829989

This is another one of those commonly peddled revisionist "truth-bombs" - that the Diary of a Young Girl, read in tens of thousands of classrooms across the planet each year, and part of the education of our children, is, in fact, a hoax and therefore part of Jewish indoctrination as its author is not Anne Frank.

In 1981, the Netherlands State Institute for War Documentation submitted Anne Frank's handwritten diaries to the Dutch State Forensic Science Laboratory of the Ministry of Justice to determine their authenticity. The State Forensic Science Laboratory examined the materials used -- the ink, paper, glue, etc. -- and the handwriting and issued a report of some 270 pages:

The report of the State Forensic Science Laboratory has convincingly demonstrated that both versions of the diary of Anne Frank were written by her in the years 1942 to 1944. The allegations that the diary was the work of someone else (after the war or otherwise) are thus conclusively refuted.

The most common complaint against the diary is that it contains writing in a ballpoint pen, and that ballpoints were not popular until after Anne's death. This is a fraudulent but persistent myth. The only ballpoint ink in the diary were on slips of paper known to be inserted by someone other than Anne anyway. The writings of Anne herself are not in ballpoint:

All the diary entries are written in various types of ink and (colored) pencil, not in ballpoint. The document analysis by the Netherlands Forensic Institute showed that the main part of the diary and the loose sheets were written in grey-blue fountain pen ink. In addition, Anne also used thin red ink, green and red colored pencils and black pencil for her annotations: not ballpoint.

>>127828900
What kind of pump did they use to take out the poisonous air?

>>127830175
why does the graph include soviet POWs?

does this mean the German POWs left to starve or die from disease in Eisenhower's camps counts as a holocaust of the German people?

>>127830228

The origin of the "ballpoint myth" is the four-page report that the Federal Criminal Police Office (the Bundeskriminalamt or BKA) in Wiesbaden published in 1980. In this investigation into the types of paper and ink used in the diary of Anne Frank it is stated that "ballpoint corrections" had been made on some loose sheets. The BKA’s task was to report on all the texts found among the diaries of Anne Frank, and therefore also on the annotations that were made in Anne’s manuscripts after the war. However, the Dutch investigation by the Forensic Institute in the mid-1980’s shows that writing in ballpoint is only found on two loose pages of annotations, and that these annotations are of no significance for the actual content of the diary. They were clearly placed between the other pages later. The researchers of the Forensic Institute also concluded that the handwriting on these two annotation sheets differs from the writing in the diary "to a far-reaching degree." Photos of these loose annotation sheets are included in the NIOD’s publication (see The Diary of Anne Frank: The Revised Critical Edition, 2003, pages 168 and 170). In 1987, a Mr. Ockelmann from Hamburg wrote that his mother had written the annotation sheets in question. Mrs. Ockelmann was a member of the team that carried out the graphological investigation into the writings of Anne Frank around 1960.

In short: the "ballpoint myth" is easy to disprove. The "ballpoint myth" is based on the simple fact that, around 1960, two annotation sheets with ballpoint writing were inserted between the original pages. These texts were written by a graphological researcher, and are not included in any edition of the diary (apart from the Critical Edition, where photos of the annotation sheets are reproduced). In July 2006, the BKA found it necessary to state in a press release that the 1980 investigation cannot be used to call the authenticity of the diary into doubt.

>>127830296

And then we have a guy called Meyer Levin. The allegation goes, that Meyer Levin is the original author of the Anne Frank Diary, i.e. that it is a work of fiction, and as proof for this the deniers point us out to the fact that Meyer Levin sued Anne Frank's father Otto Frank over the rights of the book.

Meyer Levin (1905-1981) was an american novelist. What really happened, is that in the 1950s, Levin was caught up in an argument about the rights to a STAGE ADAPTATION of the diary of Anne Frank, which occupied him for many years and left him bitter in the end. His wife had made him aware of the diary in 1951, after which he had promoted its publication in the US and drew attention to it by writing an article about the diary in the New York Times. With the consent of Anne's father Otto Frank, he took up a dramatization of the diary and gave Broadway producer Cheryl Crawford a draft, which she accepted. On the advice of Lillian Hellman however, who found Levin's version inadequate, Crawford instead decided to commission the author-couple Frances Goodrich and Albert Hackett with the diary's adaptation for theatre. Her two-act The Diary of Anne Frank, premiered at the Cort Theater in New York in October 1955, was a huge success, and was awarded the Pulitzer Prize and the Tony Award, and in 1959, George Stevens turned it into a multiple Oscar-winning feature film.

>>127830347

Meyer Levin claimed that the play neglected the Jewish subject matter of the diary in shameful fashion, but on the other hand used his design. He sued Kermit Bloomgarden, who had produced the piece instead of Crawford, as well as Goodrich, Hackett and Otto Frank. There followed a long-standing legal dispute, which finally ended with a settlement, according to which Levin received compensation, but refrained from publishing his adaptation. Levin however, did not want to resign himself to the court's decision and continued to fight for the rest of his life trying to bring his play onto the stage. He brought these experiences of his to paper in the novel "The Fanatic" (1964). He also described the events in detail in his (second) memoir "The Obsession" (1973), as did his widow Tereska Torrès in the book "Les maisons hantées de Meyer Levin" (1991). To date, only private prints of Levin's "Anne Frank, A Play" exist.

So let's recap: after the war, Levin wrote, with initial approval of Otto Frank, a THEATRE PLAY based on the diary of Anne Frank, called "Anne Frank, A Play", but his play was not produced. Instead a version of the same story dramatized by Frances Goodrich and Albert Hackett reached Broadway theatre. Levin sued them all for plagiarism regarding rights to the play and got compensated. Levin never once claimed anything the deniers are saying about the diary.

>>127830228
who cares? the diary doesn't prove that Jews were being systematically gassed at any camps, and no one denies that Jews were being persecuted during the war

>>127830193
>girl doesn't look polish but german hehe so I'll proceed to say "where did you get that caption, did you pull it out of your asshole? provide a link to a legitmate source or GTFO"

Cringe cringe CRINGE.

>>127830214
>WWII never happened.
When people...

>start calling you a WWII denier
>make laws against saying WWII never happened
>put large amounts of money into arguing against "WWII deniers" in media blizts
>come like hornets to social media and internet forums to argue against "WWII deniers"

...I might be inclined to believe you.

(sorry for samefagging).

>>127829199
Dude 2-3 million goy Pollack non-combatants were murdered by the German Reich during WW2.

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>>127830376
cringe three times isn't a source I can use, I'm afraid

>>127830526
How many of those deaths were attributed to the Nazis, but were in fact carried out by the Soviets?

Katyn comes to mind...

>>127830623
>ooga BOOGA I don't want to do my own research only to find out that the caption is correct

>>127828876
>famed German efficiency

suck a fat cock tyrone. it's not.

>>127830800
just provide a link Shlomo, that's all I want

genuinely interested at this point if you can produce one

>>127830293
I dunno, I didn't make it. Killing POWs is a war crime, maybe they're counting all german-caused war crime deaths as 'the holocaust'.

But don't let POWs distract from the question - how many slavs died?

>>127831046
I don't know.

But if I had to guess, most of them were probably killed by Soviets, not Germans. Soviets were fucking crazy about purging anyone back then.

If it were obvious on its face that in WWII the Germans made and implement a plan to exterminate Jewry and using and diesel engines, here's what you wouldn't have:
>calling people "deniers"
>apostate Jews "denying"
>laws against "denying"
>laws against investigating
>a garganguan multimedia/internet campaign against "deniers"

Here's what you would have:
>response of hand wave dismissal as a crackpot to the handful of people who bring the topic up as being arguable.

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>>127830228

>>127828900
You do realize that hydrogen cyanide gas in medium to high concentrations is highly flammable, and even explosive. The """""""""pump""""""""" would need to be intrinsically safe in order to not level the camp, not to mention the close proximity of the crematory ovens to the gas chambers ay auschwitz.

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>>127831174

>date of your newspaper article

try paying more attention next time:
>>127830296

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>>127831315

To: >>127831154

>>127831154
I will repost the transcript as you did not read it properly.
"...the task assigned to you already in the decree of January 24, 1939, to solve the Jewish question in the form of emigration or evacuation, the most favorable solution possible in the time allotted, I hereby empower you to make an overall plan of the organizational, functional, and material measures to be taken in preparing for the implementation--and now we come to the decisive word, which has been falsely translated--it states here, namely, for a complete solution, not for a final solution, for a complete solution of the Jewish question in the entire German sphere of influence in Europe."
Goering is contesting the deliberate obfuscation of euphemisms to somehow mean millions dying, when no such official document actually exists. Remember, if you claim inquiring into the non-existence of a document purporting to originate the Lollercaust ISN'T Holocaust denial, then anybody who does that today is not guilty of that label. Yet that is what you ad-hom your opposition as. So which is it: claiming euphemisms taken out of proportion IS Holocaust denial, or it isn't?

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>>127830910
You're asking me to do something unnecessary which quite frankly I'm not obliged to do nor do I want to do it. Plus you're arguing for the sake of arguing... your argument really that I have to prove something to you is formulated on your emotions. You clearly want to have some fun with me don't you?

>>127828790

The most incredible part of holocaust denial is the ahistorical insistence by deniers that if you can't prove every single holocaust victim was killed and creamated in a camp, it didn't happen.

Hello morons, have you heard of Babi Yar? How about the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising? Civilian massacres by the SS/Wehrmact are included in the 6 million (Jews) / 12m (jews+homos+gypsies) figures

Holocaust denial suffers from a basic failure to have ever read a fucking book.

>>127831315
try addressing
>>127831205
instead of strawmen

I wish the holocaust actually happened

>>127830228
As if a diary is substantive proof of anything outside of the experience for the person who wrote the diary. Extending that to all Jews is not an argument, unless you can prove the homicidal intention and the conclusion afterwards outside of circular arguments (in the form of self-substantiating testimony/documents that are true because the source is "good") or argument from silence fallacies (Jews aren't here anymore=mass gassings/cremation that cannot be feasibly proven with actual physical evidence). Thousands of corpses have been found, which you can prove. But not millions.

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>>127831435
I think you're getting confused by the "denier" label, which it was designed to do.

Jews play with language and words like that a lot, by the way. They know how to get exactly that kind of mental image into your head of who a denier is, and that they deny the whole thing.

The truth is, nobody denies that jews were persecuted and rounded up into camps, and that many died due to conditions within the camps, or were outright murdered.

Maybe you should look into what revisionists actually claim before dumping on them?

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Who started it?

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>>127831465

>>127831093
>muh Buchenwald
>statement was about Auschwitz
>I'll mention Auschwitz tangentially but reply to Buchenwald
>So? Is there any "homicidal" camp more debunked as a homicidal camp than Auschwitz? No.

Are you in here? I hope you are. Because the quote you posted was from Rassinier, who was never at Auschwitz. He was at Buchenwaltz for three weeks under quarantine, and then to Dora, a subcamp there. I was pointing out the fact that he wasn't at Auschiwtz for you.

So showing a quote of him saying there where no secrets at Auschiwtz is pretty god damn dumb. But I guess you'd have to be okay with that, if you're going to be okay with all the other dumb shit deniers like to post.

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>>127831671

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>>127831705

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>>127828790

Okay. I'll weigh in on this.

The Holocaust did indeed happen. That's not rumors or superstition.

The Germans did indeed systematically abuse, slaughter and treat the Jews very horribly. There were massacres indeed. This is true without a doubt. However, despite this, and despite the fact that millions were slaughtered. Including Poles and others. There were some very very strange incidents about the Holocaust that don't add up.

I'll give an example. Since I was recently listening to testimonies from victims of the holocaust.
>Be me
>Listening to testimonies
>Trying to find inconsistencies
>Woman is telling her story
>Talks about the Ghettos and how people were isolated
>Jews started betraying each other to survive
>Eventually she ends up in a concentration camp
>This one does indeed have slaughterhouses
>Jews killed regular yada yada etc etc

It sounded like the same old schtick. But then she described something really odd that just seemed to contradict everything.

>Woman describes how the Americans were gaining ground
>The Germans made them all move out of the camp
>Marched them over and made sure they were surrounded by fence
>The Woman looks over, and describes seeing Orthodox Jews with the hats
>Pic related
>She doesn't understand why these Jews aren't being harmed, or why they aren't in the camps too
>She watches them and they have umbrellas and nice clothes
>They are just watching from afar
>It creeps her out to recall the memory
>mfw

Anyone else know of similar stories? I'm trying to find the testimony on video so you guys can see it.

>>127831365

I am still waiting on your elusive citation about Goering having denied the physical destruction of the jews of having happened.

This is twice in a row that you have dodged my question. But go ahead and keep reposting that. It validates my point again and again that you cannot provide what I am asking, and can instead only provide a source about Goering saying he gave an order concerning a complete solution to the jewish question via evacuation. Again, that is not what I asked. Because by saying this, Goering is not denying that the holocaust happened.

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>>127831745

>>127831653

alright so all of the plans the nazi high command developed to exterminate undesireables in central and eastern europe (including the separate slav genocide, generalplan ost, hunger plan etc), we should just ignore all of those documents because...? they're jew fakes or what

"not murdered systematically"
What does the word systematically mean to you?

"No existence of gas chambers"
What are you fucking retarded?

"Six million jews did not die in the holocaust"
ever taken a look at a census of europe pre and post war

>>127831842
>implying 900,000 cremated people add up to the size of 10 stadiums


Prepping early for the Mental Olympics, huh?

>>127831483

>try addressing
>>127831205

ok


"You do realize that hydrogen cyanide gas in medium to high concentrations is highly flammable, and even explosive. "

It is, but only in concentrations higher than 56,000 ppm. 300ppm is what is needed to kill humans. You'd know this if you opened a chemistry textbook instead of relying on what the liberal arts retard Fred Leuchter has to say.

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>>127831917

>>127831959
They dug up all the remains and moved it? You'd believe that?

>>127831983
Shhh

Can't use fact, logic, or science here. You might get them to REEEEEEEEE

>>127832068

No they didn't bury 900k seats and a field you fucking retard, they burned a lot of bodies, if you didn't know burning matter combusts some of it into smoke, try lighting some of your pubes on fire to check if you've hit puberty, you won't end up with ash the precise weight of your pube

>>127831802
>Because by saying this, Goering is not denying that the holocaust happened.
Yes, he is. He is claiming no such documentation outlining extermination, outside of deliberate misrepresentation, exists. Remember, if you claim that documentation for the alleged mass extermination is not required, then you are not making an evidence-based argument because you admit no such documentation ever existed.
Instead of actually addressing the point, you just glossed right by it.
Refuting the fact that official documentation outlining deliberate extermination existed is denying that the Holocaust ever happened. If you claim otherwise, then I am not a Holocaust denier because I also assert that no such documentation outlining extermination ever existed. But you somehow think that the Nazis could communicate without a requirement for any order ever existing to substantiate your conspiracy theories.
>>127831983
Genetic fallacy, again.

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>>127831147
OK for example just in Poland (not counting military deaths) about 3 million each of jews and Poles got killed by the Nazis, officially.
Do people who think the holocaust was hoaxed think 3M polish dead at nazi hands is a hoax too?

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>>127832166
>Bury seats and a field
What are you even trying to say?

Ash and bone fragment, from the alleged 900,000 corpses?

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>>127831698
People lied about gas chambers in Buchenwald. They led about gas chambers in Auschwitz

>>127832274
This is the definition of an argument from silence fallacy. Population decline does not logically equate to your specific method of extermination, especially when any inquiry into exhumation of the millions you claim died is shot down, opting instead for testimony that speaks OF its existence. Because that's good enough for the best documented even.

>>127832068
Well

If it was indeed all 900,000 of the people claimed to have died, and been cremated, the space needed to store all of that would be pretty small. Have you actually seen the remains of a cremated person?

As for digging it up and all that, you'd be amazed at what you can get the slaves of your concentration camp to do.

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>>127832455

Complete list
http://imgur.com/a/725A7

>>127831983
What concentrations were they using? Keep in mind that they were killing an entire room full of people who would inhale the chemical. Afterward, the air had to be pumped out due to it still being toxic.

>>127832420

OY VEY GOYIM DON'T WORRY ABOUT ALL THE MISSING JEWS, THE HOLOCAUST WAS A HOAX WE'RE NOT HIDING WAITING TO INVADE YOUR COUNTRY

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>>127828790
what is to debate JDIF?

>WOAH SOME PEOPLE DON'T THINK SOMETHING HAPPENED 70 YEARS AGO
Just stop this, its pointless, its a waste of a thread and illegal in many countries.

>>127832408

>evidence from Buchenwald can be used as evidence against Auschwitz.

Can the Canuck kindly remind me what type of logical fallacy is being applied by the poster consciously or subconsciously here, again?

>>127832455
Let's say it's 1 pound per person. That is 900,000 pounds of material. That isn't "pretty small". By what standard of reference is 900,000 pounds of anything "light weight"?

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>>127828790

>>127832455
Have you actually tried burying and then digging up and then in the open air despite it raining at times cremating and then smashing the bones to pieces of 900,000 people?

>>127832651

Did you know that 900,000 pounds of anti-matter can be stored in an area less than the size of a pin?

MASS ISN'T DENSITY YOU FUCKING RETARD

FOR EXAMPLE, YOUR BRAIN TAKES UP A LOT OF SPACE AND WEIGHS NEARLY AS MUCH AS MINE DESPITE CONTAINING NOTHING

>>127832764
didnt know humans consisted of anti-matter though

>>127831842
>>127832651

What the above image tries to do is to portray the Treblinka II extermination camp site as too small for the number of people killed there. It does this, by stacking 10 Los Angeles Memorial Coliseums on top of one another to demonstrate "the absurdity" of 900,000 people having been processed here.

Let us first address the absurdity of using the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum (or any stadium for that matter), as a good way of portraying the capacity of a place to contain human beings. It is absurd, because a stadium is one of the least efficient ways to harbor people, because a good portion of a stadium's total area is purposely left EMPTY so that games can take place there. The spectators are seated in a ring-shape around the playing field, and therefore the area we should be considering, is not the total area of the stadium, but rather the area of the annulus wherein the spectators are seated. If we would take only the area of this shape, and remold it to, say, a circle, then suddenly the total area would shrink by a lot.

That is point 1. Point 2 is even if we only limit ourselves to the area of the seating arrangement, there is still plenty of space wasted considering the area attributed to 1 person (the size of the seat, the leg-room before the next row of seats begins and so on). People aren't squeezed next to each other, not by a long shot.

Point 3: The volume, considering that we're talking about a three dimensional mass grave rather than a two dimensional area. Loosely stacking the stadiums one on top of the other as Eric Hunt has in the above image is a tremendous waste of space like no other. Watch this video, especially mark 3:35 onward, as it describes how humans can be stacked next to each other efficiently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eEXM0raA5M

At 4:55 onward, the 3-D option is explored.

>>127832618
It's not a logical fallacy. There were no homicidal gas chambers or blueprints for homicidal gas chambers ever found anywhere in nazi germany.
We know this because nobody has ever seen one.
People lying about Buchenwald just confirms that people were caught making up stories.

>>127832618
But it isn't evidence against Auschwitz. The first half describes the "super fastidious testimony and documents" outlining the "irrefutable truth" that gas chambers were used in Buchenwald. The second half only speaks about Auschwitz when prisoners were taken FROM the camp TO Buchenwald. The highlighted sentence has a sentence before it, talking about Buchenwald, not Auschwitz. It isn't saying Auschwitz had no gas chambers.
>>127832764
900,000 pounds of ash at, say, 1*10E3 per m^3 equates to around 400 cubic metres.

>>127833066
So where did the 900,000 people go?

>>127833066

If we take the video's calculation of stacking 7.478 billion humans on earth yielding a cube of 2.436 billion cubic meters, then we can, via simple maths, find out how big a cube (read: mass grave) the 900,000 dead bodies of Treblinka stacked in the same fashion would need:

2,436,000,000m3 / 7,478,000,000 humans = 0.33 m3 per human

0.33m3 * 900,000 humans = 293,179.99 m3

Now 293,180m3 is the total volume of a cube that is approx. 66 . 4 meters in length, breadth and depth (cubic root). These would have to be the total dimensions of the mass graves in Treblinka II, were they to hold 900,000 corpses. Note how the dimensions are infinitely smaller than the dimensions of Eric Hunt's stadiums (a single one of the pictured Los Angeles Memorial Coliseums has an area of 72,843m2 of which a much smaller segment makes up the seating arrangement, which itself is a rather comfortable way of stacking humans next to one another, and he stacks 10 of these on top of one another). Eric Hunt's stadium stacking is therefore an example in how to waste space, rather than any kind of realistic assessment, and its main purpose is, by methods of gross exaggeration, to bait the viewer into denying the events at Treblinka II.

We still need to return to the elephant in the room though, which is our mass grave of 293,180m3 needed to hold 900k corpses. Keep in mind this cube can be split into smaller mass graves of varying lengths and breadths - it's just that the total volume has to remain the same. But regarding the volume, it is based on the loose assumption made in the video linked above, regarding how many humans can somewhat fit in 1m3 and not how many can possibly be squashed into 1m3. The latter however is the case when you start dumping corpses into a mass grave: the weight of the corpses above squashes those underneath, and there is generally very little room left by the time the grave has been filled.

>>127833066
I never believed there actually was 900,000 buried there in the first place. Don't waste your time.

>>127833168

But we're still leaving out an additional factor, and that is the composition of the corpses (size, weight etc.). I don't know what dimensions the author of the video above took for his, but I am wondering if he took infants, children etc. also into the equation to reduce the average volume of the term "1 person" than what we would usually picture in our mind. Here is my article showing why a good chunk of the demographics of those gassed were comprised of infants and children (remove .jpg ending from your URL bar to read the article): http://i.imgur.com/nWqT43v

With all these additional factors considered, would the minimum combined volume of the Treblinka II mass graves still be 293,180m3? I am convinced it would shrink even further.

Which leads me to the last and perhaps most crucial points in this post that make all the above exercises in mental gymnastics at the end of the day quite worthless:

1) No historian is claiming that many corpses, or even the tiniest fraction of that are still buried in Treblinka II, considering that they were exhumed and cremated as per Himmler's Enterdungsaktion.

2) No historian is claiming that the Treblinka extermination camp's total death toll had been reached BEFORE the first cremations began. This means that even during the camp's hayday, there never was a point of time when that many corpses were buried in Treblinka in total. Exhumation and cremation began while the camp still operated and continued with its killing process.

Now that we've purged the idea of having to find room for 900,000 corpses from our heads, the ash question still remains. 1 adult human body produces about a shoebox full of ash, as agreed upon by both revisionists and nizkor, see: http://www.nizkor.org/features/qar/qar46.html

Again, assuming there were no dead infants and no dead children in Treblinka and instead assuming each cremated person in Treblinka produced a shoebox full of ash, we'd have some 900,000 shoeboxes full of ash.

here's the deal: no on in their right minds would say that people weren't horribly slaughtered in WWII. the question is, how much of the stories told are fishy and odd? to me it doesn't matter if people were gassed, shot, or cremated or whatever. it also doesnt matter what ethnicity they were from. people died in a horrible manner, its something horrible.

here's the deal: the winners write history. zionist control the media. is it possible that the holocaust was not against jews? is it possible that the holocaust was not caused by nazi germany? yes, thats all plausible, and yet irrelevant.

the only thing that matters is that we aknowledge that we let ourselves be devided and controlled by the jews NOW.

>>127833197

>X isn't possible
Here is a reasoned argument as to how it is
>JUST KIDDING I NEVER SAID X

Intellectual honesty in action.

>>127833298

What is the average size of a shoebox? Let's just take the biggest average ones we can find, which are shoeboxes containing shoes for adult men: usually 35.56 centimeters long, 25.4 centimeters wide and 12.7 centimeters high according to this website: https://www.reference.com/beauty-fashion/size-standard-shoe-box-44b54d22d751e6c2

This gives us a shoebox volume of 35.56cm x 25.4cm x 12.7cm = 11,471 cm3, which is 0.01 cubic meters. Therefore, 900,000 cremated adult corpses each producing 1 standard adult male sized shoebox full of ash would total a heap of ash that would require a mass grave of exactly 0.01m3 x 900,000 = 9,000m3 to be buried.

Which, taken the cube root, translates to a mass grave approx 21m in length, breadth and depth. We've come a long way from that corpse-holding mass grave 66.4 meters in length, breadth and depth, haven't we?

Now, is it possible to find a combined mass grave in the dimensions of 21m length, breadth and depth in today's Treblinka II area? Either way, this observation leads us to the last among the crucial points:

3) No historian is claiming ALL the cremated ash is reburied in mass graves. Lots of it was strewn in the surrounding fields, and post-war would-be looters who came to this area looking for Jewish gold and valuables have made observations of ash upto and including bone fragments.

What we can conclude from this study, is that holocaust revisionists deliberately make false assumptions in their quest of using "simple maths" to convince the broad public about the physical impossibility of the AR sites having functioned as killing centers with the current numbers. They do this by building the strawman that historians are claiming hundreds of thousands of corpses are buried there, or all were buried there before the first cremations began, or assuming 1 corpse = 1 adult corpse and the ash of every cremated corpse was also buried back, and so on.

>>127832166
Do you believe there is a grave under Treblinka containing the ash of ~900,000 Jews?

>>127833066
Except my post does not hint to the fact that the camps were too small to house 'x' people, but to point out that 900,000 pounds of ash is not "pretty small". Read my post.
Your post would be truthful if you could actually substantiate your claims. Were that many people there to begin with? And on what basis can you determine that their fate is as you claim? Because people claimed to have witnessed it? On what basis do you determine that their testimony is legitimate? Or are you taking it at face value because "fuck intellectual rigour when my conspiracies are in-question". Why not investigate the assertions raised by the testimony directly?
>>127833168
>We still need to return to the elephant in the room though, which is our mass grave of 293,180m3 needed to hold 900k corpses. Keep in mind this cube can be split into smaller mass graves of varying lengths and breadths - it's just that the total volume has to remain the same.
Is-ought. Where are the graves you speak of? Have they ever been exhumed to substantiate your claims?

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Is this guy a hero to the neo-ashkeNazis?

>>127833298
Soviet propaganda is what happened. There is no need to keep believing it 70+ years later.

>>127833298
>No historian is claiming that many corpses, or even the tiniest fraction of that are still buried in Treblinka II, considering that they were exhumed and cremated as per Himmler's Enterdungsaktion.
Then you are making an unfalsifiable claim. The absence of evidence is not equivalent to the presence of evidence. You can only claim what you can prove, and you can't take the thousands you have found and use an argument from silence fallacy to extend it to millions you have yet to find.
>>127833377
This assumes the shoebox was filled with ash. My calculation is using the density of the ash itself to see how much volume the ash itself would take up.
Even if you claim that it was a gradual process over time, you still have to provide evidence substantiating the claims you make in the physical world.

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>>127833676

>>127829844
She was shot buy a plane? You do know how fucking huge those rounds are right?? You're a complete shill you fucking retard. JIDF obviously.

>>127833323
See >>127828876 >>127828900 >>127828950

>>127833298
Except even modern crematory ovens can't always incinerate bone (it must be ground down to complete the cremation.) There would be huge graves currently at Treblinka. None have been found via scanning devices placed on the surface. Maybe they will find the graves soon.

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>>127829844

>>127833860

>Neo-Nazis don't know about bombs

>>127832408
Shawcross's quote there is taken out of context.
>Murder conducted like some mass production industry in the gas chambers and the ovens of Auschwitz, Dachau, Treblinka, Buchenwald, Mauthausen, Maidanek, and Oranienburg.
It's easy to see that he lumped all of the big camps together, not that each one had a gas chamber.

Renard himself admits his statement about Buchenwald wasn't true, but a figure of speech
>When fellow Frenchman and former Buchenwald inmate Paul Rassinier pointed out to the priest that there was no gas chamber in the camp, Renard replied: "Right, but that's only a figure of speech ... and since those things existed somewhere, it's not important."

While I haven't gotten to read Henocque's book, it's been pointed out that his story was embellished. Levai was also known for embellishment.

As for the book by the ADL, I can't actually find anything on it. One site said it was published in 1973, but that's the only mention of it I can find.


But yes. There where a few people who lied about Buchenwald for personal gain, there where those who did not know the camp they where at and misattributed their claim, and there are those who outright lied. But again, it is an insanely small amount of people.

As for Auschwitz, gassing definitely happened there.

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>>127833935
>neo-ashkeNazi

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>>127833762

>>127833908

post-cremation bones are so brittle that they can be destroyed to powder with tools as simple as hammers or even rocks.

>>127832651
I was going to reply to this, but other people covered that.

Sorry pal :(

>>127832504
Awesome reply

Tons of properly worded responses, counter arguments, and interesting tidbits of fact!

Oh, wait, no. It's not

>>127834139
Well, it still isn't "small". Except by taking a larger reference frame, maybe.

>>127831387
This guys full of complete bullshit. You're trying persuade people you fucking retard the burden of proof is on you.

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>>127833935
Area obviously looks bombed.

>>127833926
Please redistribute.

From Der Untermensch

“On the infinite a steppes of Russian territory lay Eastern Europe. A sharp contrast is noticed when comparing central Europe with this enormous space. On both sides of the border is the same earth but not the same man.

It is the man who makes his mark on the landscape, while on the German side is planned orderly fields yielding abundant harvests; the other side is only impenetrable forests, vast and unkempt, miles of uninhabited steppes where even the rivers wind endlessly through the nothingness.

This poorly kept land which hides fertile soil could be a paradise for man, a potential "California of Europe" alive with fields and fruit, but instead it lies neglected and wasted, lost to the abyss of cultural nihilism.

This land cries out against the subhuman and his wasteful ways! This fertile black earth watered by burning tears, is only barely separated from the rest of Europe. However its Eastern European masters have not risen above their primitive ways.

The land sees only chaos and wastes because it is not cared for by true man, the bearer of high culture and genius, who would manage its development, and bring civilization to its soil instead of only cruel and endless war, and destruction.

Certainly, the developed nations of Central and Western Europe wanted to secure this land, it was their purpose. First there were the Goths and the Varangians, who based there empires in this territory and introduced culture. Then the Swedish, Flemish, the Dutch, Shwabs and Lower-Saxon settlers, attempted to bring light into the darkness. The cry for help sounded for centuries from these lands.

Even Peter the Great, Catherine II and all the rest called the German peasant and the German officer, a European scientist! A physician and engineer. But once again the forces of darkness, and the subhuman prevailed, the German spirit, which came to these lands to help, was brutally and senselessly destroyed."

All this insecurity to either attack or defend God's taste in aesthetics. Hehehehehehe

>>127834091
Sadly, the tales of the Nazi Bone Hammerers were lost to the ages during the war. We shall never know the true extent of the hammerings that took place. A tragedy for historians.

>>127834264
cont. part 2

On their small ugly steppe horses, the subhuman hordes appearing as if they were part of the animal, growing out of its fur, descended onto Europe with their inhuman cry!
Their narrow eyes shone with excitement and the greedy bloodthirsty desire to reign down fire and destruction on all in their path.
The cry “the Huns come” was heard for centuries and became synonymous with fear and loathing. Russia became the stepping stone for where the subhuman ideology and doctrine burst forth against the world of light.
Repeatedly these wild barbarians with sharpened spears, cursing and foaming at the mouth came to bring destruction to the cultured west.
The red poet Peter Oreshchin in one of his writings said:
“Holy mother earth shakes under the stomping of millions of feet. The sickle of the moon was hidden behind the mosque and the cross of church. This is the end to the lights of Paris.
From the steppe rises the smoke of the victims, brought to their new god. London sinks under the waters. All of Berlin lies in ruins. The sweet moan of the noble, that perishes in combat. Hordes will sweep toward Mont Blanc and will traverse Gods valleys.
So the nomadic Kirghizs pray to a new world!”
“And here are they again here, these Huns, these splinters of inhumanity, a nightmare become reality, punch to the face of all that is kind and good.
“…at ease with their own primitive nature, in full knowledge of the repulsions from all of mankind they are a suitable tool in the hands of their master the eternal Jew! There leader in organized mass murder remains camouflaged in his civilian dress, the Jew is only invisible to the naive fools”
Mulattos and Finn-Asian barbarians, Gipsy’s and black skin savages all make up this modern underworld of subhuman’s that is always headed by the appearance of the eternal Jew.

>>127834305
Cont. part 3

The desire of the subhuman is for the German peasant, and all the people of the Europe to be destroyed and completely eradicated from the face of the earth.
…..This is the price of “humanity“. This is the fate of civilized society, to be sacrificed in blood.


Speech of the Reichsführer-SS at the SS Group Leader Meeting in Posen (Poznan) 4- October-1943
Brig. Fegelein and the Russian general
Our comrade Fegelein once captured a Russian general like that. Look, they're cheap. They're Slavs. Full of humour, as Fegelein is, Fegelein told his staff: "We'll treat this one real good. We'll act like we're going to recognize him as a General. So, when he comes in, stand up, stand at attention, keep quiet, say 'General Sir, this' and 'General Sir, that', show him how much respect you have for him". Of course, this worked. You don't need to give a Russian general any political ideas, political ideals, or political plans for the future. You can get them cheaper than that, gentlemen. The Slavs are known for that.

The Slav is never able to build anything himself. In the long run, he's not capable of it. I'll come back to this later. With the exception of a few phenomena produced by Asia every couple of centuries, through that mixture of two heredities which may be fortunate for Asia but is unfortunate for us Europeans -- with the exception, therefore, of an Attila, a Genghis Khan, a Tamerlaine, a Lenin, a Stalin -- the mixed race of the Slavs is based on a sub-race with a few drops of blood of our blood, blood of a leading race; the Slav is unable to control himself and create order. He is able to argue, able to debate, able to disintegrate, able to offer resistance against every authority and to revolt. But these human shoddy goods are just as incapable of maintaining order today as they were 700 or 800 years ago, when they called in the Varangians, when they called in the Ruriks .

>>127834305
That's very counter Semitic of you

>>127834143

>strawman that the mainstream is alleging that germany 33-45 NEVER transferred jews via peaceful means out of europe

Redpill created by a dumbass who found out yesterday about the Haavara Agreement, no doubt.

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>>127834347
cont. part 4
Every Russian, every Slav, likes to hear himself talk. An old story. If you encourage them: "Please tell us, we place the highest value on your opinion. After all, we can only learn from you", then you won't find a single Russian commissar who won't fall for this; it's like tickling them with a peacock feather, just like this. Our Fegelein treated his general that way, and his general told us everything that such a brave, courageous commander really shouldn't ever tell at all, everything from his battery positions to his divisional marching plans and orders (he had a whole offensive army). He gave us everything ripe for the slaughter. It was clear in his mind that after all his blabbering -- he was never asked anything directly, not with a single word -- that he really couldn't go back to Little Father Stalin, even though he wore the Order of Stalin number seven hundred and something, a sort of Great Knight's Cross from over there, which he then gave Fegelein as a gift. Fegelein gave the medal to the and the Führer gave it back to Fegelein in a very nice silver box. Just thought I'd mention it.

Heart in the wrong place

It is basically wrong for us to project our whole harmless soul and heart, all our good nature, our idealism, onto foreign peoples. This applies to Herder, who wrote the "Voices of the Peoples", probably in a drunken hour, and caused us, in later generations, such boundless suffering and misery. That applies to the Czechs and Slovenes, to whom, after all, we brought their national feeling. They themselves were absolutely incapable of it; rather, we invented it for them.

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>>127834398
Cont. part 5
For the SS Man, one principle must apply absolutely: we must be honest, decent, loyal, and comradely to members of our own blood, and to no one else. What happens to the Russians, the Czechs, is totally indifferent to me. Whatever is available to us in good blood of our type, we will take for ourselves, that is, we will steal their children and bring them up with us, if necessary. Whether other races live well or die of hunger is only of interest to me insofar as we need them as slaves for our culture; otherwise that doesn't interest me. Whether 10,000 Russian women fall down from exhaustion in building a tank ditch is of interest to me only insofar as the tank ditches are finished for Germany.


We will never be hard and heartless when it is not necessary; that is clear. We Germans, the only ones in the world with a decent attitude towards animals, will also adopt a decent attitude with regards to these human animals; but it is a sin against our own blood to worry about them and give them ideals, so that our sons and grandchildren will have a harder time with them. When somebody comes to me and says, "I can't build tank ditches with children or women. That's inhumane, they'll die doing it." Then I must say: "You are a murderer of your own blood, since, if the tank ditches are not built, then German soldiers will die, and they are the sons of German mothers. That is our blood." That is how I would like to indoctrinate this SS, and, I believe, have indoctrinated, as one of the holiest laws of the future: our concern, our duty, is to our people, and to our blood. That is what we must care for and think about, work for and fight for, and nothing else. Everything else can be indifferent to us. I wish the SS to face the problem of all foreign, non-Germanic peoples, particularly the Russians, with this attitude. Everything else is moonshine, a fraud against our own people, and an obstacle to earlier victory in the war.

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>>127828790

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>>127834445
Cont. Part 6
Psychology of the Slavs (third paragraph)
The Russians themselves know each other very well, and have invented a very practical system, whether it was the Czars with the Okrana, or Mr. Lenin and Mr. Stalin with the GPU or the NKVD. When four Russians get together, with little father, little mother, and their little children, not one of the 4 or 5 knows who is betraying whom at the moment: which one is the informer betraying the father now: is it the mother, or the daughter? And who, in return, is betraying them? In doubtful cases there may be two, even three, informers in this family. I am not exaggerating. This remark is entirely accurate with regards to the city. In the countryside, our comrades who have been over there in the East can confirm that there are still 20 or 30 NKVD informers and agents in every village, even after the withdrawal of the Bolsheviks. This ensures, to an absolute certainty, that no conspiracy can get started, because everything will still be reported to the top by means of this informer apparatus. Then comes the pistol or deportation, and that is how this entire people must be governed.

The SS after the war

One thing must be clear, one thing I would like to say to you again today: the true forging together of our Order, this Order which we built up over ten long years, the fundamental principles of which we founded ten years before the war, and in which it was educated, will only begin when the war is over. That will still remain to be accomplished by us -- if I may say so, we, the old fighters -- in twenty exhausting years of hard work after the end of the war, to create a tradition of 30, 35, 45 years, that is, a generation.

>>127834362
Haha Thanks!

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>>127834496
Cont. part 7
This Order will then march into the future, young and strong, revolutionary and effective, to fulfil its task of providing the Germanic people with a superior stock capable of binding this Germanic people and this Europe together and holding them together, producing the intellects that required by the people, in economics, farming, politics, and as soldiers, statesmen, and technicians. In addition, this superior stock must be so strong, so filled with life, that each generation will be capable, without question, of sacrificing two or three sons from each family on the battlefield, yet nevertheless ensure the passing on of the bloodline.

Himmler supposedly wrote this on 22.4. 1942, sourced as BA (Bundesarchiv): R22/851, 1ff., Himmler an Schlegelberger

As Reichsführer-SS and Chief of the German Police, however, I am responsible to see that such deeds find their just penalty. The community of the people demands the destruction of such parasites, regardless of whether, according to juristic considerations, a subjective guilt exists or not. I cannot accept that a Polish sub-human escapes their punishment through some legal.

----

"Himmler has pronounced a plan according to which 3/4 of Belarusian population was designated to "eradication" and 1/4 of racially cleaner population (blue eyes, light hair) would be allowed to serve Germans as slaves. Mass executions of entire villages were a common Nazi practice. While initially Germans allowed peasants to take cattle from kolkhoz, later all this cattle was loaded on trains and shipped to Germany. Many Belarusian youth were shipped to Germany as slaves."

The decision, therefore, lies here in the East; here must the Russian enemy, this people numbering two hundred million Russians, be destroyed on the battle field and person by person, and made to bleed to death. (Excerpt of a speech given by Heinrich Himmler at Kharkow in April 1943)

>>127832420
> Population decline does not logically equate to your specific method of extermination
No problem, I was only talking about population decline. Method of extermination is another question.
>argument from silence
isn't that what you're doing?
>argument from silence is to express a conclusion that is based on the absence of statements in historical documents, rather than on presence
If you acknowledge the population decline (A) during the years (B) when nazis (C) occupied poland (D) and have testimony that they were exterminating everyone (E)... sensible thing is to believe that's most likely what happened.
To say we shouldn't believe any of it because we haven't found some mysterious new final proof (F) for the case, F is an argument from silence.

>>127834224
Have you ever played with the ashes of a fire after it's burned out?

I ask this because cremated remains act extremely similar to such ashe. It's easy for it to be carried away by the wind. It's easy for it to blend in with soil around it. It's easy for it to partially dissolve in water. It's easy for it to be compacted.

They could have so easily hid 900,000 cremated bodies there. They're also finding a shit ton of bones and other graves at Treblinka too, what with the excavations they've done recently.

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>>127829307
>>127829335
Ah I see you kikes have gotten more funding. Please tell me more about the masturbation gassing roller coasters? Is it true that it turned the occupants into soap by the end of the ride?

>>127834536

for him, everything that makes sense is a logical fallacy. this comment of mine is also a logical fallacy to him, no doubt.

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>>127834520
Cont. part 8

We have only one task, to stand firm and carry on the racial struggle without mercy. I will now say again something which I have already today said to the men elsewhere: we will never let that excellent weapon, the dread and terrible reputation which preceded us in the battles for Kharkow fade, but will constantly add new meaning to it. They can call us what they like in the world, the main thing is that we are the eternally loyal, obedient, steadfast and unconquerable fighting men of the Germanic people and of theFuehrer, the SS of the Germanic Reich. (Heinrich Himmler from Kharkow speech in April of 1943)

These clashes are the only evolutionary possibility which will enable us one day, now that Fate has given us the Fuehrer Adolf Hitler, to create the Germanic Reich. Heinrich Himmler

General Erich Hoepner of the Panzer Group 4 stated:

The war against Russia is an important chapter in the German nation's struggle for existence. It is the old battle of the Germanic against the Slavic people, of the defense of European culture against Muscovite-Asiatic inundation and of the repulse of Jewish Bolshevism. The objective of this battle must be the demolition of present-day Russia and must therefore be conducted with unprecedented severity. Every military action must be guided in planning and execution by an iron resolution to exterminate the enemy remorselessly and totally. In particular, no adherents of the contemporary Russian Bolshevik system are to be spared.

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>>127833983
So people were caught lying about nearly every camp being a death camp, but you expect people to believe that the only ones that really were death camps were the ones captured by the soviet regime? Pure coincidence.

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>>127834388

>>127834625

I haven't read those novels that speak of the masturbation machine and the anus air pump, please tell me which historian recommends those novels.

The only question in this debate is how did the people in the internment camps die. The whole 'final solution' argument is so flimsy it could be a hoax at this point.

Through murder in the gas chambers or through starvation and disease due to the allied air campaign to destroy the ability of Germany to provide resistance.

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>>127834625
Here's more to trigger you.

Cont. part 9

Heinrich Himmler in a speech to the Eastern Front Battle Group "Nord" declared:
It is a war of ideologies and struggle races. On one side stands National Socialism: ideology, founded on the values of our Germanic, Nordic blood. It is worth the world as we want to see: beautiful, orderly, fair, socially, a world that may be, still suffers some flaws, but overall a happy, beautiful world filled with culture, which is precisely Germany. On the other side stands the 180 millionth people, a mixture of races and peoples, whose names are unpronounceable, and whose physical nature is such that the only thing that they can do - is to shoot without pity or mercy. These animals, which are subjected to torture and ill-treatment of each prisoner from our side, which do not have medical care they captured our wounded, as do the decent men, you will see them for yourself. These people have joined a Jewish religion, one ideology, called Bolshevism, with the task of: having now Russian, half [located] in Asia, parts of Europe, crush Germany and the world. When you, my friends, are fighting in the East, you keep that same fight against the same subhumans, against the same inferior races that once appeared under the name of Huns, and later - 1,000 years ago during the time of King Henry and Otto I, - the name of the Hungarians, and later under the name of Tatars, and then they came again under the name of Genghis Khan and the Mongols. Today they are called Russian under the political banner of Bolshevism.

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>>127834489

>>127834536
>isn't that what you're doing?
Presupposing the conclusion before providing evidence: how intellectually honest. An argument from silence would be "well, the Jews aren't here anymore, so that means they were all killed". I'm pointing out your argument from silence. Not making one myself.
>If you acknowledge the population decline (A) during the years (B) when nazis (C) occupied poland (D) and have testimony that they were exterminating everyone (E)... sensible thing is to believe that's most likely what happened.
Okay, then let's exhume the mass graves all over Europe containing the millions you allege. Oh wait, all we rely on are genetic fallacies pertaining to self-substantiating documents and testimony with no physical evidence to corroborate it.
>>127834571
My point is not to say what they did with it afterwards, but to point out the volume ash takes up. 900,000 pounds of it isn't "small".

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>>127834722

>>127834571
>excavations at Treblinka recently
Source?

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>>127834787
Cont. part 10

From a German soldier who fought in Russia :
“Do you know how we behaved to the civilians? We behaved like devils out of Hell. We left those poor villagers to starve to death, thousands and thousands of them. How can you win a war in this way?
We shoot villagers on the slightest excuse. Just stick them up against a wall. We order the whole village out to watch. It’s a vicious circle. We hate them and they hate us, and on and on it goes, everyone getting more inhuman.
The civilians were all ready to look on us as saviours. They had had years of oppression from the communists. What did we do? Turn into slaves under Hitler.
If the Russians should ever pay back one half of what we have done, you won’t smile or sing again.
We were quartered (living) in a house outside the town. Our dwelling for the night was a wooden house occupied by a Russian family of five children and an old grandmother. We were bitten by fleas all night. We opened our tins and made coffee, sharing what we had with the children and the old woman.
The man of the house was a soldier and the mother had been taken away to dig trenches. The children all had protubing bellies of long-term malnutrition. The reality is that after 22 years of Communist rule, a salted fish is the height of luxury. How this country depresses me.”

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>>127834625
Oy vey, it's all true. It's like anoddah shoah.

>>127832618
I already replied, but your selective process filters out points that refute you, opting to take low hanging fruit instead of proving your claims.

>>127834638

Camp Mauthausen, a Western camp which was liberated by the Western Allies (US Army) had and still has a homicidal gas chamber that claimed the lives of thousands of people.

One sentence of mine debunks an entire info-graphic from your side that clearly took much longer to make, considering the colours, fonts etc. Isnt that funny?

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>>127828790
Why are Jews obsessed with the number 6 million? Is there a branch of sacred geometry that deals with numbers?

>>127834896
>had and still has a homicidal gas chamber that claimed the lives of thousands of people.
On what basis do you determine this to be true? More "super reliable testimony that can't trace itself back to graves of the bodies claimed"? Or maybe it's documents that prove mass graves existed because the document said so and we know this because mass graves existed, so says the document which knows this is true because...

holocaust doesnt mean genocide
holocaust comes from greek and it means self sacrifice thats why they named it like that and bash it all the time the zionist jews sacrificed their own people for the greater good of their selves. jews are the only race/ethnicity in the world that wants people to feel sorry for them. think about it about your own nation and its histroy do you brag about your people getting killed? no you brag about its great conquerors and its serving to humanity. jews have served nothing for humanity they are a race of dirty nomads that wherever they settled they destroyed the nation and got sent away. a little historical fact . after the conquest of the great alexander about 2 generations after him. jerusalem the so called holy land of the jews was part of the seleukian empire witch was part of the hellenic empire. the greeks didnt hate the jews instead they tried to make them human teaching them about gyms , art , math , how to was them selves ( yes ) , and how to be human. in return the jews got together and overthrew them killing them destroying their temples and this kids is what the jews celebrate every year in hanoukah. they are scum on earth no achievments just repeated tries to control the people and live off them ( see communism , see todays world )

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>>127828790
Red Cross estimates are nazi propaganda goy

>>127834855
http://www.livescience.com/44443-treblinka-archaeological-excavation.html

>>127835170
That entire "excavation" is debunked in the comments of the very article that you linked lmao

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>>127834631
>and must therefore be conducted with unprecedented severity

german autism always lead them to wrong political decisions

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>>127828790
SHUT IT DOWN

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>>127835069

step up your game, son.

>>127835035
also there is a greek man named kostas plevris who brokethrough all the history of jews in a 1400 page book explaining every little detail about how they manipulate the world and how the holocaust was orchistrated . he got charges on him by the israely commision in greece witch has great influence in the goverment and the jews lost all 3 times they sued him really smart guy

>>127835163
Someone explained to me earlier, rather a long time ago, that the numbers were released in the 70's as they were called to do so thanks to the ever-increasing interest in the Holocaust. But, ultimately, why are these numbers from the 70's?

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>>127835163

>Red Cross estimates are nazi propaganda goy

Ernst Zundel forgeries are nazi propaganda indeed, goy.

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>>127835357
EBIL NAZIS. ALL WHITE ISNT RIGHT

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>>127835419

>what are underground flues

>>127835519
Shit you just made up for the sake of your flimsy argument?

I chose not to believe in the holocaust because I won't let Jews hold their deserved genocide over my head as a tool to destroy white ethnic identity.

I don't care if the Jews died or not but I hope they did. Fuck the holocaust and the survivors. I'm not a Jew so I don't have to care about the holohoax

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dont forger the '6million' meme that originated from WW1 war papers

https://youtu.be/Dda-0Q_XUhk

>>127835255
Hardly debunked by deniers.

http://blogs.staffs.ac.uk/archaeology/projects/holocaust-landscapes/genius-and-genocide/finding-treblinka/project-results/preliminary-results-of-the-survey-at-treblinka-ii-the-extermination-camp/

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/unearthing-the-atrocities-of-nazi-death-camps/

I could list the entirety of a google search here for you, but that's a bit tedious

>>127835567

>I make up a blueprint

try again.

>>127834801
>before providing evidence
A-E is evidence. Not having F doesn't mean you don't have A-E, or that you can't make a reasonable conclusion from A-E.
>let's exhume the mass graves all over Europe containing the millions you allege
That applies to everyone, jew or not, right? Where/whether people were buried is often unknown for WW2 dead.
So to get back to my original question, do holocaust-mythicists only question the jewish numbers for WW2 or all the numbers?

>>127835635
The outfit you work for.

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>>127835437
>letter from a Jew saying that 6 million really did die

Oh jee wiz, guess you're right schlomo

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>>127835610

Did it? Or was it cherry-picked by the youtube video author?

>>127835648
Actually, only E is. But when you simultaneously assert that this event is so well-documented, yet you cannot shit out a single exhumation citation proving millions died, E is not corroborated w/ physical evidence.
>Where/whether people were buried is often unknown for WW2 dead.
Hence the estimations. Separate from objective fact. You claim what you know. So the thousands of corpses you've found does not equate to millions just because people claim to have seen them (but cannot find them).
>do holocaust-mythicists only question the jewish numbers for WW2 or all the numbers?
Previous thread, I cited, for example, Canadian WW2 stats.http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/second-world-war/second-world-war-dead-1939-1947/Pages/files-second-war-dead.aspx
"There are burial records and, you know, substantive evidence for the assertion. The reason why the death toll is pinned at "around 60 million" or whatever you claim is because that is the closest estimate. It is more than 'x' but less than 'y'. We know this because of the records (present the evidence here), but not every dead man could be taken into account, so that is why it is estimated.
Unlike the Lollercaust, it does not rely on an argument from silence fallacy which just states "Jews were here, now they weren't, so this obviously substantiates my baseless assertions and this specific method of execution"."

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Hitler was a jewish agent recruited by the american jews.
The plan was executed perfectly.

>Murder as many whites as possible in the alloted time (60 million whites dead in 5 years)
>The jews were put into the safety of the camps, while they waited for the creation if Israel.
>They even had barbers, theaters, dentists. Who provides that to people you're exterminating?
>steal as much art, gold as possible.
>obliterate 1,000 year old cities across the entire continent
>ensure the jewish immunity to criticism or any kind of disagreement for the next 100 years
>create the modern liberalism, the hate for white race, and blocking the ability for any future ethnic cleansing-- because (((muh 666 gorrilion)))).
>hitler was a retarded austrian painter that worshipped Mussolini like a god, and never came up with a single original idea in his entire life

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>>127828790
Efficient Germans revive dying girl only to kill her again hmmmm

>>127835695
This is a good point, something the Deniers need to take in consideration. I'm still a Denier, but we all need to make sure we check the facts before we make a decision to let a paradigm guide our perceptions. Good job, man.

>>127835695
as meaningless as the claims of the number of the victims

meanwhile no one cares to cry on every corner than far over 20 (+/-10) millions Russians died in WW2

>>127835163
>>127835409
Can both sides answer this in their own way? I'm interested so I can make up my own mind.

>>127834445
> believing the Waldniggers propaganda
Oh ((((you))))

>>127828790
no one cares

>>127836035
Only Jews mattered in ww2

>>127836035
That isn't really the issue though.

Russia entered the war on their own, their knack for using criminals as cannon fodder, Stalin's terrible management of his forces, and several dozen other things Russia did wrong don't help the case.

>>127835985
Hahahahahaha

>>127836304
>Russia entered the war on their own
why do you post if you have no clue about basic historical facts

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>>127834896
So where is the proof?

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>>127836193
Here's your (((you))) x infinity.

>>127836424
As long as you're aware that Russia was preparing an extremely large offensive invasion force to invade Eastern Europe and what the Nazis took over, and the fact that Hitler had to act or be annihilated.

>>127836424
Er

Russia invaded Poland 16 days after Germany did.

>>127836424
Oh

And also invaded Finland (and lost).

>>127828790
>wants a debate for unproveable hoax
>but muh Russia is real

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>>127828790
>>127828876
>>127828900
>>127828950
Goyim you are all over the place.
Check out OP Rheinhard and stop talking shit about muh german efficiency.
Germans are masters of efficiency and I wish my countrymen were half as efficient as they are muslim.
>t. beedy

>>127835874
>estimations. Separate from objective fact
So if I said our best estimate is that 6M jews were holocausted but don't claim it's objective fact is that okay?
>Jews were here, now they weren't, so this obviously substantiates my baseless assertions and this specific method of execution
I said before >>127834536 I was only talking population decline. Method is another question. But pretty sure lots of jews were gassed and burned because of all the evidence for that. :p

Based on available evidence and testimony we estimate that a significant number of the 6M estimated jewish dead in WW2 were gassed in a network of Nazi-operated work/extermination camps in eastern europe, but do not claim this is objective fact since we didn't personally witness it and the germans didn't hand us a silver platter with rigorously documented verifiable evidence sufficient to meet arbitrarily high standards of proof imposed on us by people who won't believe in history no matter what.
Also about the same number of slavs got killed too, we estimate but do not claim.

>>127837527
(((we)))
You let that slip there

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>>127836424

>what is Ribbentrop-Molotov
>Russia and Germany were allies until Hitler decided to stab Russia in the back.

Sasha, you were loving allies, but then hitler decided to barbarossa your ass.

>no clue about basic historical facts

yeah, no shit you dont have a clue.

pic related.

>>127837527
>So if I said our best estimate is that 6M jews were holocausted but don't claim it's objective fact is that okay?
For the death toll, sure. But that is what you want to be the case, not what actually is. And you must first actually prove that it occurred to begin with. For starters, we can exhume those who you claim died to analyze the claim. Similar to what happened after the Cambodian exterminations.
>I was only talking population decline. Method is another question. But pretty sure lots of jews were gassed and burned because of all the evidence for that.
Population is a non-argument. The reverse is used by Communists to show that forced famines never occurred because the population was increasing. But that is over a 50 or so timeframe.
All of the evidence for that? Just stating that there is evidence does not actually substantiate your claims. Documents speaking of mass graves aren't evidence if you never actually find the mass graves. Same applies for testimony. You only have evidence outside of the physical world, taking it at face value.

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>>127837666
u wot m8

>>127837527
>Based on available evidence and testimony we estimate that a significant number of the 6M estimated jewish dead in WW2 were gassed in a network of Nazi-operated work/extermination camps in eastern europe, but do not claim this is objective fact since we didn't personally witness it and the germans didn't hand us a silver platter with rigorously documented verifiable evidence sufficient to meet arbitrarily high standards of proof imposed on us by people who won't believe in history no matter what.
Not true. My point isn't that I wasn't there to witness it. That is also not an argument. I never saw many things that are truthful. G constant is true, whether or not I experience Cavendish's experiments.
They were gassed? How do you know this? Where are the mountains of evidence you claim. You are making a post hoc argument when you claim "extermination camps" (they were camps, people died, so they were extermination camps).
When the point of contention is if extermination occurred, you stifle debate when you presuppose the conclusion before presenting your evidence. Not really intellectually honest, but conspiracy theorists often operate on fallacious logic, anyways.
Germans didn't hand evidence to us, even though Nuremberg is upheld as absolute justice? Which is it? Nice strawman, though. Burden of proof is on you, still. Not a single citation outlining an investigation into your golden testimony, though.

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>>127837527
>only talking population decline
Its around 2m in Europe if I recall correctly but the census making no sense is never adressed.
> lots of jews were gassed and burned because of all the evidence for that. :p
What evidence is there of the gassing of anyone and why would you not burn bodies?
If you crunch the numbers on muh Ausschwitz with modern (!) incinerators you would still at best be able to burn 100k a year if you were burning bodies 24/7 without any form of pause.
> the germans didn't hand us a silver platter with rigorously documented verifiable evidence sufficient to meet arbitrarily high standards of proof
Do those "arbitrarily high standards" involve being spoonfed because the Germans documented every "special treatment" down to single cases.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Reinhard
>Based on available evidence and testimony we estimate
>we estimate
Nope the 6m figure predates even Nürnberg and is based to this day on the claim of 4m deaths in Ausschwitz. You have no clue what you are talking about do you?

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>>127835985
This is pure gold

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>>127836604
Off to summer camp you go.

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I'd like to switch from proofstreing aka "hurr durr archives that prove my point are real and ones proving yours are fake" as this is a waste of time at this point. The thing that matters hovever is why exactly you WANT to think this way?
Few people are honest about it with themselves, but in the end of it all our beliefs are really affected by our material interests.

Jew has a serious resaon to believe in holocaust, as his nation including himself benefits extremely from the idea of Jews being the main prey of WW2 (while in fact the amount of power they got from it covers all the casualtes greatly). More then that - HONESTLY believing that his nation were an innosent prey all along really helps him to turn off normal human empathy when acting like a fag with goyum "They are faggots constantly trying to wipe us out for no reason anyway, why should i feel empathy to them?".

Profits for "normal" Deutch citizen trying to debunk the holocaust is as obvious and understandable. It's simply not right to feel yourself a part of race that comitted an ultimate dick move of modern history, especially considering the fact that YOU have to pay for this from your pocket. Mind starts to seek the proofs that the crime was faked by (((victims))) to get profits from ya.

On the other hands guys who deny holocaust while worshiping Hitler and the whole racewar shit are living proof for me that killing the jews will fix nothing. Because what makes jew what we hate is that their culture is based on idea of sinning while avoinding consequences.
I unironically think that the postitve side of Hitler Germany that continues to attract people was the brutal honesty in their ambitions and methods. And therefore any so called stormfag who denies holocaust is the true unremench, as he wants honesty to himself but tries to lie to escape the resistance.
Remember - nothing stays hidden forever. World built on jewish lies will collapse very soon. Your job is not to follow it.

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>>127838765
Actually the proof is in the pudding and German efficiency is bureaucratic autism at levels you goys cant even.
They literally documented the deaths in the actual killing program but is rejected by both sides because it leaves Hitler off the hook for directly ordering the end of the exterminations.
So the allies lose their boodyman and the nazis lose their hero because the jew didnt want to holocaust the other jews - big surprise.
It is generally understood that the death camp deaths are a direct consequence of the bombings but for political reasons this can never be publicly aknowledged and doing so would break ties with the US and Israel likely for ever which is known as burning bridges.
In war scorched earh may be viable but in politics it only causes isolation and honestly the last thing germans want is to be stuck with Italy and Austria again.
Id like to say its not personal but we all know Germans would rather die amongst a sea of inbred pedophiles than carry you guys through another war.
Let that sink in. Its suicide before fighting with you again.

>>127838765
>Profits for "normal" Deutch citizen trying to debunk the holocaust is as obvious and understandable. It's simply not right to feel yourself a part of race that comitted an ultimate dick move of modern history, especially considering the fact that YOU have to pay for this from your pocket.
The only reason the average Germ is sad about it is because they got caught. They are trying the same now with the EU, they will never stop until they have eliminated the last non German on the planet. These people are utter filth and should have been gassed en masse back in 1918. Anyone defending them is a cuck and a traitor to his own nation and race.

>>127839881
Dude what the fuck is your problem?

>Imagine how unfucked the world would be if germany won.

>>127839881
But they're clearly exterminating themselves now.

>>127840044
(((you))) and [[[their]]] operatives occupying my country and destroying it from within, trying to incite violence and assasinations of politicians and journalists.
This is funded by the German state with the approval of the average German. They are the enemy and they will burn for what they are doing.

https://www.politicalbeauty.de/koeppel.html

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>>127840364
>falling for the germshit propaganda
> again
You don't know them, you don't know Europe and you don't understand what they are doing. Far from killing themselves, they are preparing for another total war in which the brown hordes will serve as cannon fodder while their own kind will mop up after them. This is about establishing the continental superpower they have been dreaming about for 200 years, nothing else.

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>>127839881
Way to go off the rails there no pun intended but seriously thats garbage.
As far as Germans are concearned every "germanic" is of them.
Germans arent actually paying anything. The debt may be growing but we are printing the money to pay it out of nothing anyhow. It is purely symbolic and designed to be unpayable so that it remains.
Apart from all that most Germans are anti EU and dont think that economic warfare on our neighbours is a viable long term strategy. Germany grew from European competition and killing the competition would only serve stagnation.
>These people are utter filth and should have been gassed en masse back in 1918. Anyone defending them is a cuck and a traitor to his own nation and race.
I dont get it. This is exactly like what you are accusing the germans of. Does the irony not strike you as odd or are you at peace with your double standards?

>250+ posts in and all anybody can do is simultaneously take the high ground that the Lollercaust is so well-documented yet strike down any inquiries into the existence of mass graves because "fuck your anti-Semitic denial we have all the evidence we need they said it happened so it did"

>>127839719

>German efficiency

why are you still parading this meme, Hans? You invaded russia in summer clothing, you autistically replaced broad gauge with narrow gauge and spent the final year of the war blowing your entire budget on V2s and king tigers while trying to use your first jet fighter as a bomber instead of a fighter.

>german efficiency

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>>127840695
Okay so are you retarded or have you forgotten that the muds arent working in any way shape or form?
We cant consript them and it would probably be easier to deport them while being bombed than getting them to join the army and not be fucking useless.
http://www.meforum.org/441/why-arabs-lose-wars
You may be right with the anschluss tho. I too am getting the feeling we are letting them all in only to radicalize the populous and weasel out of the legal framework holding the military in particular at bay and we all know how the germans like to hide their military as a civillian operation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strength_Through_Joy

>>127839719
>It is generally understood that the death camp deaths are a direct consequence of the bombings

generally understood by whom? most death camps were located in poland and none of them were bombed by the allies except the IG farben industrial complex near auschwitz.

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>>127837858
>actually prove that it occurred to begin with. For starters, we can exhume
Like before, >>127835648. A-E is enough, F would be nice but you don't need it to have a reasonable belief that the holocaust happened.
>Population is a non-argument
Because people could lie about it? True of anything, so go with the best supported figures.
>>127838232
>They were gassed? How do you know this?
Same way I know most of history, historians say so. And the hoax accusations are pretty flimsy.
>Germans didn't hand evidence to us, even though Nuremberg is upheld as absolute justice? Which is it?
Nuremberg is justice because A-E is sufficient to know the holocaust happened. Germans didn't give us F because why would they?

>>127838403
>census making no sense
Which census? What I usually see is the World Almanac which shows 1933-1948 jewish pop almost unchanged at 15M, but
>Historians immediately point out that the 1949 World Almanac does not list that figure for the world Jewish population. Instead, the increased number was taken from an erroneous Senate Judiciary Committee report in 1950. Anybody looking in the 1949 World Almanac would instead see the figure of 11,266,600, along with a revision of the 1939 population upwards to more than 16-and-a-half million.
Which source to believe?
>100k a year
If you crunch the numbers and get an answer that you don't expect maybe you crunched wrong. Doubt the nazis bothered sticking to an ovens x bodies / time equation while they were exterminating everyone.
>4m deaths in Ausschwitz
4M was an early figure, got revised down, now the total (for jews) is 6M.

>>127828790
there is no debate, it's a pack of Jewish lies.

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>>127841812
>parading this meme
>You invaded
>blowing your entire budget on V2s and king tigers
>trying to use your first jet fighter as a bomber instead of a fighter
What? Are you pretending Hitlers orders were proof that germans are inefficient instead of austrians being fucking idiots?

>>127841915
Not directly bombed, no. But a nation at the brink of defeat will not prioritize POWs.
>>127842151
>A-E is enough
Only E if you can provide evidence for its existence outside of the testimony.
F is shifting the burden of proof (well, you can't not say it didn't happen!). Not an argument.
>Because people could lie about it?
No, because population dip is not sufficient evidence. Not mutually exclusive with your presupposed method.
>Same way I know most of history, historians say so. And the hoax accusations are pretty flimsy.
I agree, there are lots of weird claims being passed around as evidence. The only real issue is on your shoulders, which is presenting investigations corroborating the death tolls. Which you have not produced. Most likely because they don't exist and the standard of evidence was drastically lowered for the conspiracy theory.
>Nuremberg is justice because A-E is sufficient to know the holocaust happened.
A is just a timeframe. Not proof in and of itself. B is just the statement that people died under Nazi regime. There was a war, that is obvious. C is just the place. So far, nothing exclusive to your conclusion along the lines of actual evidence.
D is the real point that has nothing to corroborate it. E is just your own opinion (well, I think this is my worldview that occurred, so it must be a valid point to include).

>>127840695
>people supposed to be running from war are going to fight in some war
That doesn't make any sense at all.

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>>127841915
Its not about the camps but the supply lines. In general everyone touting the holocaust will conceed that bombing the supply lines was a bad idea but was the cost of supporting the eastern front.

>>127842151
>what census
The jewish census. They keep track of their population since they heavily advocate intermarriage and must document relations.
I think there was one in 14-18 done by the german government but the jews have their own which is actually a collection of various communities census.
>crunch numbers
Well as I pointed out with incinerators of modern make that would be the best one could do. Sure its far from accurate but I did round up at every possibility for the benefit of the doubt.
Also there is an equation but increasing the mass per burning slows down the process the more you shove in so we can safely say thats not viable.
>6m
The number of 6m was based off of Ausschwitz having killed 4m and while they got revised the overall number did not. I mean it is pretty well documented that at Nürnberg the figure was 6m so Im not sure where you are trying to go with this.

>>127841862
Btw heard from afghanistan war veteran that people pissing their pants during the battle is a really common thing, especially when artillery or planes are invloved and is considered okay as long as person does not stops fighting.

For example, here is a better example at attempting to go forward with an investigation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Commission_on_the_Ukraine_Famine
Bear in mind, mass starvation is much more feasible out of negligence (in this case, deliberate) than mass gassings. But since that's an argument from incredulity, it doesn't matter. Literally the only thing at this time that matters at all is providing evidence for the death toll. If you cannot substantiate the death toll, then you have no standing to make any claims.

>>127843904
Never been myself its just really weird PR to have to deal with no?
I take it because of the nature of it there are sadly no statistics on pissing your pants in combat.

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Why did OP call it a discussion?
Does he believe any power will make concessions after an unconditional surrender by their adversaries or is it summer once more?

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>>127846049
Friendly reminder that this is what the shills are sliding.
https://www.pscp.tv/w/1rmxPPnkQdQxN

>>127842582
>Only E if you can provide evidence for its existence outside of the testimony.
E was 'testimony that they were exterminating everyone' so evidence of that other than testimony is A-D (and G (camps), H (graves), etc...)
So what evidence do you want, what is your standard of proof? You say F (find 6 million graves) but
>F is shifting the burden of proof
F is 'moving the goalposts' - demanding more evidence when what's provided already is sufficient:
>only 250,000 jews in germany, holocaust of 6M never happened
>ok ok poland lost 3 million jews, russia 2m, but we don't know where they-
>oh they turned up in camps with millions of their rings and shoes but that doesn't mean-
>oh there were mass graves everywhere but that could've been typhus it doesn't mean they were gas-
>so there was gas at the camps but the chamb-
>ok gas chambers were airtight but they couldn't have bur-
>not all bodies were burned? ok but did the nazis even exi-
>ok so the nazis existed. but HITLER DID NOTHING WRONG
At some point it becomes unreasonable.

>dip is not sufficient evidence
Not of extermination but it's evidence of a dip. And with the evidence of german presence in poland at the time, evidence of german persecution against poles and jews etc etc... you get the holocaust without having to find and count every single body.
>A is just a timeframe
Obviously my simple A-E isn't the complete case for the holocaust.
I just wanna know what deniers think of the non-jew numbers.
>>127843863
>incinerators of modern make
Do you think they burned everyone? Did they only use their crematoria to burn bodies? Did they use their crematoria as you assume?
If you were german SS and bodies were stacking up faster than the crematoria could burn them, do you really think you wouldn't be able to solve that problem?
>overall number
Modern number is 6M and adds up right from the different camps and east europe deaths. Wouldn't be surprising if early on they didn't know how many died where.

>>127848074
>E was 'testimony that they were exterminating everyone' so evidence of that other than testimony is A-D (and G (camps), H (graves), etc...)
Reread your own post. A is the timeframe, B is just an empty and obvious assertion, C is location, D is the real point (that you still dismiss without evidence), and E is a non-argument extending substance-less statements as definitive proof.
G is just a location, too. Camps that people were killed at? You're getting closer with H. Prove that this occurred by citing the graves in-question. Then you will have made an argument. You still don't do this, though.
>F is 'moving the goalposts' - demanding more evidence when what's provided already is sufficient:
But it isn't sufficient. You haven't cited anything.
I'm not claiming your first strawman. Population dip=/=execution dip.
Missing shoes and rings do not equate to your specific method of extermination without exhumation of the bodies you claim.
What mass graves? Again, where is your evidence?
What gas chambers? You'll have to find the deceased to prove that they were gas chambers. On what basis do you determine their homicidal usage?

>>127828790
I have the same exact hat

>>127848074
Your first point still relates to a population dip. Argument from silence fallacy with no real proof.
All of your talking points rely on presuppositions. In rational debate, no topic is outside the necessity for evidence. Not even a flat Earth. You are supposing Russel's teapot exists and asking me to disprove it. Burden of proof is on you to find the graves you speak of to corroborate the testimony and your alleged gas chambers.
>Not of extermination but it's evidence of a dip.
Population dip means population dip. Yes.
>And with the evidence of german presence in poland at the time, evidence of german persecution against poles and jews etc etc
Yeah, that's called a leap of logic without evidence.
>Obviously my simple A-E isn't the complete case for the holocaust.
At least you admit to not bringing forth an actual argument.
>I just wanna know what deniers think of the non-jew numbers.
I'm sure non-Jews died, too. It's war, people die. From starvation, sure. But the bogus claim that millions were gassed to death, then cremated (oops no evidence but people claim they saw it don't question it just believe) is a large claim that requires substantiation. Testimony and documents that talk of mass graves, but the absence of mass graves, is not a good start.

>>127848613
>A is the timeframe
I write like an idiot (A, first point) so may have caused some misunderstanding (B, second point).
>You haven't cited anything.
Don't really need to because
(1) I'm not trying to prove anything, and
(2) historians have proved it for me.
I'm only in this thread to hear about the denialist position on number of slavs killed (we don't have x-million slav graves exhumed with signed murder confessions from the germans, so the slavs either weren't killed or didn't exist in the first place, or the soviets must have done it) but I'm getting sucked into convo on the jewocaust.

>do not equate to your specific method of extermination
nothing does apart from the specific method of extermination itself, so short of being there you're going to have to be satisfied with population records, testimonies, camps, graves, analysis by historians, the nazis coincidentally being in power at the time, etc.

>>127848973
>millions were gassed to death, then cremated
we know people were gassed and cremated, isn't it just a question of how many?
that's where population figures come in

>>127850217
>I write like an idiot (A, first point) so may have caused some misunderstanding (B, second point).
Okay. Not conducive to the discussion if you cannot get your point across.
> I'm not trying to prove anything, and
So why respond if you aren't interested in honest discussion?
>historians have proved it for me.
I don't need to provide proof for the earth not being flat, we just need to assume I am automatically truthful because this is how rational discourse transpires.
Even something as obvious as a round earth requires standards.
>we don't have x-million slav graves exhumed with signed murder confessions from the germans, so the slavs either weren't killed or didn't exist in the first place, or the soviets must have done it
I'm sure Soviet POWs died. Those that were partisan, sure. Outside of that, war has no rules. I am sure many innocents were shot, but war is brutal. I don't think they were rounded up and gassed, unless you can prove it.
I also wasn't asking for signed confessions, though. Just an investigation into the graves you claim. Nice strawman, though. Not only can you not get your point across, you can't grasp mine without reducing it to a strawman.
>nothing does apart from the specific method of extermination itself, so short of being there you're going to have to be satisfied with population records, testimonies, camps, graves, analysis by historians, the nazis coincidentally being in power at the time, etc.
Admitting to lowering the standard of evidence for your specific worldview is not an argument. It is also equally fallacious to state that just because I didn't see 'x' that it doesn't exist. I'm not claiming that. I'm asking for a source for your claims.
>we know people were gassed and cremated
What do you think this entire thing has been about.

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>>127848074
>do you really think you wouldn't be able to solve that problem?
Well that leaves more than 3 and a half million bodies so it does sound like a problem not even kraut magic can tackle.
Seismic measurments would show the massgraves and my point was that many bodies can not be burnt in that time in those camps unless you shift the goalpost to every camp not inspected having been worse than ausschwitz which still leaves the question of where these mass graves are and where the coke for the ovens came from because even the numbers supposebly burnt are tapping into coke reserves that are not accounted for which may I remind you is the last thing germans would ever do.
>6 million
The 6 million were said to have died long before the nürnberg trials.
There is no modern number of reision short for Ausschwitz which you just sidestepped by claiming that every camp not inspected would account for the difference despite no such case ever having occured and to the contrary caused reclassification to work camps with every inspection done.
So your claim is based on pure faith.
>Wouldn't be surprising if early on they didn't know how many died where.
Well surprise if you had read the documents you would know that not only did the germans keep track of exactly how many jews they gave "special treatment" to but so did the british who claimed to have intercepted pic related and "not understood its significance".

https://oup.silverchair-cdn.com/oup/backfile/Content_public/Journal/hgs/15/3/10.1093_hgs_15.3.468/1/468.pdf?Expires=1496332219&Signature=cheT7O-~4pgLyb1epu8tRtdA-l58V1dOGSRU6AKzV0Z~kEPRBDcO~IfEuUfvu08Xf1FtvuVRQhuIcqmyc15VJP2OdxRCapRrMcZNmwcUE0tLI8mRx7XVtH6L4sfHDyxpakktSG7ZfzJGnZB9Ry1m3~I9dUWVfN1cJVwX7F3igBt0POG2Sy5cof-43z1gkvweP4tHDauIE3dqqCXb9L1hfLxrMnpse3gTeS0RHJTXmmEVvBMUiLifNsVIQDgH2tlTIT2b1odae8qwYw~Mj3TK2oFU3MPayKbvTGvMkEtk1AvKPJYb2CLyIuIDCCHzgIx3H71AS9xQAAhQJIyC5zruMA__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAIUCZBIA4LVPAVW3Q

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>>127828790
Britain reporting in. We have a Holocaust brainwashing Museum, Holocaust compulsory in schools, including schools trips to Auschwitz, laws that forbid Anti-Semitism, politicians that are funded to visit Israel and become Friends of Israel and a PM with open Jewish leanings, charity support including Anne Frank FFS, pictured, etc. Decent historians veer away and those brave enough are ridiculed, beaten, bombed, jailed, and ruined.

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>>127828790
i see the JIDF is desperately trying to blue-pill everyone itt

>>127851019
>wasn't asking for signed confessions, though. Just an investigation into the graves
If you don't want to believe something you'll always be able to find a gap somewhere. Ask for graves, if there are graves ask for signed confessions, if there are confessions keep going until some piece of evidence can't be provided, then reject everything.
I can grasp your point but since it's reasonable to believe in the holocaust based on the available evidence, it's unreasonable to want more.
>don't think they were rounded up and gassed, unless you can prove it.
Implication being that all the evidence ever collected and analysed by professional investigators/historians since it 'happened' doesn't prove it even though they all say it does. Doesn't that seem just a bit unreasonable?
>source
https://www.ushmm.org/collections/bibliography/primary-sources
looks like a good place to start
>What do you think this entire thing has been about.
you don't think they used their crematoria at least?

>>127851528
>3 and a half million bodies
Not at Auschwitz.
WW2 was huge, millions of tons of stuff was produced, moved and consumed for single battles. Getting a bit of extra fuel for a fire wouldn't have been a problem.
>that every camp not inspected would account for the difference
no one thinks everyone died in camps.
>germans keep track
they also destroyed evidence when they started losing.

This thread largely proofs holo didn't happen.

You do not want to argue with idiots that are willingly trying to deny proofs and discredit them. Ethier you force yourself in believing this crap or either you face reality.

These same people believe the theory that the World Trade Center's falling was caused by a "falling plate" theory.

It's crazy to argue with libtards. You degrade yourself and go down to their level. Never go down

>>127853224
>If you don't want to believe something you'll always be able to find a gap somewhere
Excellent fortune-cookie nonsense, but nothing substantiating your claims.
>if there are graves
But there aren't. That is what I'm asking for. Plain and simple. Not for signed confessions. Improve your reading comprehension. After this, you'll just be guilty of a strawman. So much for honest debate.
>Implication being that all the evidence ever collected and analysed by professional investigators/historians since it 'happened' doesn't prove it even though they all say it does.
Well, that's an appeal to authority. You're just stating their credentials as if that makes it "more truthful". What matters is the matter of the point, not the man who makes it.
>https://www.ushmm.org/collections/bibliography/primary-sources
Specifically speaking, which of the sources outline and support your position? This is how I can tell you haven't read your sources: you cannot provide an actual argument pertaining the specifics. You linked something containing everything from Hungarian Jews, Romanian Jews, "rescue efforts", and so on.
>you don't think they used their crematoria at least?
To dispose of bodies, sure.

>David Cole exploring Auschwitz, Poland, 1992
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFrJF-noN7A

>>127831779

Hmm, interesting... anyone that knows more about this?

Bump

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>>127853919
>Getting a bit of extra fuel for a fire wouldn't have been a problem.
Thats a huge logistical issue if you are fighting a war you know.
>they also destroyed evidence when they started losing
Thats a convinient excuse. Why didnt they destroy the proof of Reinhard then? It seems very unlikely they would destroy all the evidence of their doings before that of the actual killings no? I mean even bureaucrats have priorities.
>no one thinks everyone died in camps
Well without the systematic extermination in the death camps the numbers dont add up to put it lightly and not incriminate myself here.

>>127854139
My position is basically that the holocaust happened as described, because that's what all the investigators/historians (whose careers and reputations depend on them being right about stuff, and know more about it than I do) say based on all the evidence (some of which is listed in the link).
Again, didn't come here to argue for the holocaust, wondering about deniers and slav stats.
>That is what I'm asking for
but why are you asking for it?
Nazis invaded and occupied poland, put jews in ghettos, were generally brutal, used population for slave labour, population of poles and jews decreases by millions during occupation period (without increasing by millions elsewhere), testimony that nazis were massacring them, evidence for camps, evidence of extermination at camps, evidence of orders and attempts to destroy evidence...
...but the nazis did a good job of disposing of bodies so it must never have happened.

>>127856213
>My position is basically that the holocaust happened as described, because that's what all the investigators/historians (whose careers and reputations depend on them being right about stuff, and know more about it than I do) say based on all the evidence
An appeal to authority. History is not an objective science, so they can afford to be off. Tell that to a civil engineer, that he can be off a few degrees.
Some of which is listed? Like I said, you didn't read your own link. Almost as bad as shitting out Wikipedia links. Read your own posts so you can be specific with your replies.
>but why are you asking for it?
Irrelevant. I'm asking for the basis from which you determine the truth. I already asked it. You just have to fulfil the burden of proof, now.
>Nazis invaded and occupied poland, put jews in ghettos, were generally brutal, used population for slave labour,
All of this is true because there is evidence for it.
>population of poles and jews decreases by millions during occupation period (without increasing by millions elsewhere)
This is an argument from silence fallacy.
>testimony that nazis were massacring them,
Let's find the physical evidence to corroborate their testimony. Oh wait, that's hate speech.
>evidence for camps
Camps=/=extermination camps. Post hoc argument.
>evidence of extermination at camps
This is the burden of proof I was talking about earlier.
>evidence of orders and attempts to destroy evidence...
Admitting to the absence of evidence, yet persisting with the conspiracy that there is a mountain of evidence.

>>127855890
>>127855890
>logistical issue
Can fill train carriages with jews, get 1000 tons of bread and high explosive from a factory to Stalingrad but can't manage to ship coal where it's needed in your own territory?
>didnt they destroy the proof of Reinhard
Incompetence. Too busy running from the Reds to worry about burning documents.
>numbers dont add up
Of 6M jews, some died in the camps (about 3M), others died in ghettos or just being shot in the countryside.
It does add up if you take the number of jews who died in different places and add to a total. When you do that you get about 6M.

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>>127856213
>whose careers and reputations depend on them being right about stuff, and know more about it than I do
Okay so you completely reject the possibility of a conflict of interest?
>evidence
There is also evidence to the contrary so who are we to believe?
The people that say its all the nazis fault and you will go to jail if you question it or the people claiming there were more to the story?

Also a friendly reminder that the Nürnberg Tribunal was not bound evidence and had key operatives executed without giving the possibility of a plea deal and those testimonies allowed were done after and under threat of further interrogation.
>The Tribunal shall not be bound by technical rules of evidence.
>The Tribunal shall not require proof of facts of common knowledge, but shall take judicial notice thereof.
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/imtconst.asp

>>127835567
holy shit you're not serious are you
use google nigger, people have that shit set up on their houses for heating furnaces

>>127832166
It still takes like, three hours to fully cremate a body. And that's with the state of the art ovens of today.

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>>127856994
>can't manage to ship coal
You cant ship something that doesnt exist you know.
There was simply not that much coke available and coal was a valuable good since the germans thanks to standard oil could make kerosin out of it.
>germans are somehow competent enough to produce goods out of thin air and destroy all the evidence you claim but not the direct orders of a genocide they are trying to cover up
>add up
Because only 1.3 million deaths are accounted for by the germans and even creativity wont manifest millions of jews who for some reason I guess werent included in any census.
Also why would the nazis order a census of the ghettos in 42 if they had planned on killing them and destroying all evidence of their existance in the first place?

>>127856753
>You just have to fulfil the burden of proof
Everyone (including professional investigators) accepts the burden of proof fulfilled for the holocaust. Some of the evidence that convinced everyone is listed in that link. You can read the little summaries they've helpfully made for you. Find one that relates to your particular hang ups such as disposal of bodies.
>absence of evidence
orders and attempts =/= complete success
>argument from silence fallacy
You have to take it as a whole.

Say suddenly your hat is lifted off your head. You turn around and there's a guy there. Your hat is nowhere to be seen. He has his hands behind his back. A witness says "that guy just took your hat."
Did he take your hat?
Obviously the guy stole it and he's hiding it behind his back.
But hold on...
>there's a guy there
true because you can see him
>Your hat is nowhere to be seen
argument from silence
>hands behind his back
can't assume this, we have to physically find his hands, he might be a handless amputee
also hands behind back =/= hat behind back
>the guy stole it
guy=/=thief, post hoc
>Obviously
but burden of proof! For some reason the obvious conclusion that the guy stole your hat must be avoided at all costs, because you don't know for sure that your hat is behind his back instead of under his shirt or in his mouth.