What does /pol/ think of a Flat Tax?

Taxation is enforced charity participation

>>127815409
Income tax is ridiculous.
Property tax makes sense, since the government courts and military protect your property for you.
But income tax just plain needs to end.

>>127815409
Flat tax is a tax cut for the rich
>>127815547
Its not going to end, you're ridiculous

>>127815409
Shouldn't the rich pay more taxes in general since they own more property and wealth, which means they utilize more of the governmental protection?

Why not a metered flat tax?

Below poverty 5% on purchases
Poor 8%
Lower Middle Class 10%
Upper Middle Class 15%
Wealthy 20%
Super Wealthy 22%

I'm just throwing numbers out here. I don't see how this has to hurt the middle class at all.

>>127815409
just plain don't give a fuck about policy.

lower my taxes and don't bother with the details.

>>127815718
Not an argument

and Not an argument.

>>127815526
>>127815547
first posts best posts

@127815718
shitty leaf post not even worth a (you)

>oh shit we have debt crisis because egalitarianism isn't cheap!
>quick take even more money from people, maybe they won't notice if it's a flat tax
Income tax is better, at least the people are used to paying it and you can moderate how much you take from each bracket. 10% increments from 20% to 70% is sufficient for some very complex wealth redistribution, that is what this is...

Or, you could try capital gains tax? Say half of what you received in interest, share appreciation, housing appreciation (or depreciation for claims;) ) goes to the government if you actually received cash at the end of these transactions, so mostly just interest. This almost exclusively taxes the investor class, the people not supplying the jobs when we give them tax breaks.

Because it hurts investment, you then have to incentivise business somehow, which is fine because if you strictly promote small business then on average mostly large businesses would be effected. Small business is good for employment and they provide more opportunities for investment.

>>127815871
That's regular income tax with retarded brackets.

Pick values around the 50% margin. Anything over that will drag those people down because more than half of what they earn is going to the government. The idea here is then to either have lower brackets not pay or have enough welfare programs designed at increasing a poorer bracket's wealth like food stamps, housing and free healthcare.

The thing is their numbers never add up and they end up in debt, especially when they try to fake it through the debt crisis by importing entire electorates of voters who simply don't care about money.

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>>127815409
I don't like it because whatever rate they start it at is just the beggining. They can always raise the rate. If it starts at 15% who is to say a couple of years later it goes to 20% and so on.
I see the real problem is Welfare, nobody gets off it. They get rewarded for bad behavior! Wages as in proportion to productivaty declines at a proportional rate. If you don't do something about Welfare Flat tax could be 50% or more.
The last part is if sales tax what do you do about buying property ( house ), will bank back 20% over value loan then be on hook for if forclosure ?

>>127815526
>>127815547
>>127816106
>>127816327
oh boy the dumb bootlicker capitalists have arrived.
>inb4 not an argument x-^DD

you autists have no concept of what a government provides to the people.

The rich should be taxed higher than the poor, debate me fags

>>127815409
>1 post by this ID
REEEEEEEEEEEEE

sage

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Tax for Welfare is Theft!
Charity for welfare is caring .

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>>127815409
I think the idea comes from a desire for simplicity and at first seems like an inarguably rational solution to an old problem, but in reality it is a gross oversimplification of a complex covfefe

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>>127816106
You think rich peoples taxes will go up with a flat tax? You think income tax is just going to go away magically?

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72 % of the budget is spent on welfare!
Another 13% are spent on social programs.
That leaves 16% for everything else!
We borrow more than we spend on everything else!
Pic: Everything else

>>127816881
>to
Dumb nigger, the Romans bought off literally EVERYONE. The Germans, the Slavs, the Persians, the Muslims, etc. This was because their population was too chicken shit to actually join the legions by late antiquity, so they had to fill their ranks up to the brim with conscripted barbarians. Of course, barbarians don't make for too loyal of a fighting force, so it's better to pay off your enemy than to rely on the army. But by that point, Rome was fucked anyway.

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Why not tax poor people more, since they need more government, rich people dont use the governments assets that much, so they're less of a burden on the system

>>127817893
Not a nigger / Thats the point buying off nigger!
Did you read about welfare?
I posted three more to prove my point.
I don't think a flat tax is a good idea , why niggers!

>>127818248
I was just responding to your image, I didn't read your post.

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>>127815409
Everyone pays 10%
If you make 10 you pay 1 lets say this is most people
If you make 100 you pay 10 this would be the upper class (doctors, engineers, small entreprenours)
I'm ok wih it
Maybe have little increment
say 12-15% if you make 10000 (the 1%) so that is 1200-1500 still fine (you don't want to overburden them because they can take their money, capital, etc and leave)

Now what I'm not ok is regressive taxes like the VAT. Since the if everyone is taxed 0.5 for a product that costs x:
most people - 5% tax
upper class - 0.5% tax
the 1% - 0.005% tax

Maybe don't tax people if they make under 5, progresive 1-10% from 5-10, flat tax for most and a small progressive tax if you make over 10000.
Kind of like this. in the picture.

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>>127815409
Tax rates are beside the point with Rothschild banks issuing loans from nothing and printing away our purchasing power.

Although I respect the prospect of simplifying the tax code, I don't agree with flat tax. At the end of the day you will have people paying 2x,3x,4x,5x, etc. in taxes as someone else and they will be getting the same if not less benefits/services from the government.

>>127818123
1) How about they get a job.
2) or they can stop having babies they can't pay for.
3) No one that works should live in poverty, then stop giving their money to people who don't work.

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>>127815409
0 PER CENT 0 PER CENT 0 PER CENT

>>127816892
Please enlighten us as to all of the wonders that you think central governments should provide. If your list is over 5 things you're fucking retarded.

>>127818643
>central governments
not what i said. but even in that case i can name a few. Lets see here
>military protection
>diplomacy
>coordination between sub-states
>some regulations and laws
>international trade
>currency
thats more than 5
oh no im suddenly fucking retarded!

try harder, corporate bootlicker

All this arguing over flat tax or fair tax or whatever just exists to distract you from the fact there should be no income tax.

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HAHAHAHA


poor people getting rolled over makes my cock hard

>>127819787
i agree, there SHOULDN'T be an income tax for those who's taxes will be a negligible contribution
otherwise income tax is completely justified, in so far that its the government who creates the right environment to earn that kind of money, and THAT environment can be maintained only through economic contributions from the people.

>>127820049
haha, totally agree, fellow pinochetian capitalist!
lets throw all people off planes am i right? haha

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poor person detected

>>127820391
did you mean that for me?
if so, false

bumping the thread because i want to debate some dumb capitalists, whats that? scared of a bit of socialism?

>>127815409
Oversimplified? Probably. Benefit peoples with higher incomes? Certainly. A bad idea? I do not think so. At the end of the day you will always pay what ever percent the flat tax is set to, but if you have more money after taxes, you can invest and spend more. Say we set a 10% flat tax and you make 30 grand at the end of the year, you lose 3 grand as personal income tax, now you decide "shit, I need/want more money after income taxes!" Now you can go get another job or go on some other venture to make more money and next you you end up paying 5 grand in income tax (you got a 2nd job and made 50 grand for the year). At the end you lost 10% again, but you still have more disposable income than before. Under the Progressive income tax if you make significantly more you get bumped into the next tax bracket and then get dicked by the IRS because you made more money this year so they get to take even more and now you are no better off than had you not made more cash in the first place.

TL:DR I believe that the flat tax will allow for more economic mobility for individuals based on the fact the IRS can not take all your cash for earning yourself into the next bracket by 5 bucks on accident.

>>127816339
>highest tax is 22%
>more than half of what they earn is going to the government
Isn't the point of a flat tax to get rid of all the other taxes, so you're only taxed on purchases?

>>127815409
Those who oppose flat taxes are low IQ niggers. People who get damaged the most by it are middle class. Learn your brackets.

>>127815409
I like it, a flat tax possibly with an exemption for people earning less than $X would be ideal imo. Otherwise it makes perfect sense, earn $100,000? Pay $10,000 federal tax. Earn $1,000,000? Pay $100,000 federal tax.

>>127819391
>military protection
my gun does that
>diplomacy
you mean like when I trade tomatoes for my neighbor's strawberries?
>coordination between sub-states
you mean like when I trade tomatoes for my neighbor's strawberries?
>some regulations and laws
you mean like when I trade tomatoes for my neighbor's strawberries?
>international trade
you mean like when my country trades tomatoes for my neighboring country's strawberries?
>currency
you mean like when I'm forbidden from trading tomatoes for my neighbor's strawberries?

>>127822549
Yes you have almost double the income for double or more the work what a great deal.

>>127819391
>I can't imagine these things existing without my big brother government
kill yourself.

>>127816892
So you should be punished for being succesfull?

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>>127815409
I don't support a flat tax. I support a two tier income tax.
0-$50,000 : 0%
$50,000+: 20%

Same two tier system for capital gains
0-$50,000: 0%
$50,000+: 20%

>muh rich people should pay more
A progressive income tax works only if there are no loopholes. Most rich people are rich for a reason, they aren´t dumb. People with lots of money can afford to hire others that look for loopholes to avoid taxes, leagaly and illigaly.

If the only tax was a flat income tax there would be no loopholes assuming you wouldn´t get anything back from the government in one way or another.
This means there also would be no corporate tax so creating a non profit to avoid taxes would be pointless.

And from a moral perspective, why should be punish people who produce and subsidise ones that don´t?

>>127822906
What I should have said is that you will have more income left over the more you earn and so you will be motivated to earn more as you will not be placed in a high tax bracket. The only thing that could screw people over in this instance is what already screws us all over, inflation.

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>>127822876
Your gun isn't capable of force projection on the scale of 10 carrier strike groups.

Maintaining a strong position in the international system benefits the citizens of a nation.

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>>127815409
It's idiotic. The richer you are, the more benefits you get from the society and the more you have to lose if it falls apart.

Inequality is also really bad for society.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-asltUUvcGU

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/lower-levels-of-inequality-are-linked-with-greater-innovation-in-economies/

http://www.oecd.org/newsroom/inequality-hurts-economic-growth.htm

The thing is, americans are racist and inequality is related to the privatization of segregation. Fair enough, but their lies about it hurt us in homogenous societies.

>>127823350
The main driver of income inequality is progressives taxing the shit out of poor people and forcing them to participate in social insurance ponzi schemes. If the poor were forced to put their social insurance taxes into the stock market they would be magnitudes better off.

If flat tax law passed many accountants and tax lawyers will lose their jobs.

They want tax system to remain complicated.

>>127823076
Ah, was what I was talking about here actually known as a two tier tax? >>127822852

I think 20% is a bit high though, I'd rather reduce your $50,000 to $20,000-30,000 and try and move the 20% as close to 10% as possible.

>>127823345
In the short run yes, we wont be able to defend ourselves from air strikes but in the long run we win since cleetus and tyrone has a gun on his hip.

>>127823345
>implying a carrier isn't destroyed by one decent missile
>particularly any of the nuclear variety

wew lad try not to shout "I'm neither a veteran nor do I know nothing about the actual military" so loudly next time

>>127822557
A flat tax is a tax that's exactly the same for everyone, usually a percentage value. Taxes on purchases are sales tax and ultimately drive up the cost of living significantly harming the poor earnings.

It can't be used in a society that just wants to end the whole "equality" discussion. If living simply can cost a teenagers wage then there's really no discussion and any harmful attempts at equality, which are always attempts because it's not egalitarian.

Regardless, the progressive income tax should be all the egalitarian measures necessary. I've never liked sales tax or tax on purchases, it's only a good idea if you had some naive idea to teach poor people to spend money wisely. Unfortunately you can't, it just makes everything expensive.

>>127815409
It's better than supporting UBI or welfare.

>>127823345
>those carrier groups really helped us defeat shitskins in afghanistan, iraq, vietnam, [insert any country even remotely well armed]

kek

Restrict franchise and citizenship to the superior caste of Aryan warrior poets. Resources are distributed equally among the Spartiates, and all have duty to the common good.

>>127823433
Income inequality always happens in capitalist system.

Because those who are better will get ahead of given chance.

But average income of people in capitalist nation will be higher than low inequality socialist nation.

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Wouldn't instituting a flat tax completely eliminate loopholes for the wealthy due to it making the tax system extremely simple? wouldn't it also lesson the stranglehold and corruption of lobbying due to businesses also being unable to use loopholes anymore?

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>>127823345
A 6 million dollar LAPV can be rendered worthless by a soda bottle with some fifty cent Kuffar-Aid in it

My idea of tax code.

Tax exemption to first $15000
17% tax on any income above that.

Remove ALL other exemptions or deductions.

And this tax will apply to everyone including Non profit and religious institutions

>>127815409
some people want to tax the (((1%))) out of spite, shame on them

>>127815409
kill yourself shill rat

>>127822876
>my gun does that
okay thats fine, you can go fight whatever nation decides to war you yourself then.
>you mean like when my country trades tomatoes for my neighboring country's strawberries?
kind of
>you mean like when I trade tomatoes for my neighbor's strawberries?
no
>you mean like when I trade tomatoes for my neighbor's strawberries?
no
>you mean like when I trade tomatoes for my neighbor's strawberries?
no
>you mean like when I'm forbidden from trading tomatoes for my neighbor's strawberries?
no
nice autism you've got there.

>>127823006
>>I can't imagine these things existing without my big brother government
>implying
sure they CAN potentially exist without a government, but it will not be as efficient.
Also, you call that big brother government? what i said was literally next to minarchism. i hope you are being retarded on purpose
Have fun living in your ancap paradise, though, i wish you well.

>>127823040
when did i say that?
of course you shouldnt be punished for being successful, but if you are successful in the country that has helped you achieve that success, then they deserve a bit of reimbursement to help others also achieve that goal.

>>127815547

Property tax is worse than income tax you faggot. It is literally impossible to own land in America, you are just renting from the government. Property tax makes the entire population slaves.

>>127815409
>that cartoon
Even if we assume that giving tax cuts to the rich doesn't benefit the middle class at all (which isn't true), how does it harm the middle class for the rich to have less of their shit stolen? This is the worst political cartoon I've seen all year, at the very least.

>>127823938
>okay thats fine, you can go fight whatever nation decides to war you yourself then.
You mean like how Afghans beat our military with guns, spare parts, and no military?
>no
Translation: I don't understand my own argument.
>no
Translation: I don't understand my own argument.
>no
Translation: I don't understand my own argument.
>no
Translation: I don't understand my own argument.
>nice autism you've got there.
Translation: I'm autistic and I often project.

>>127823658
Yeah, they did. The US is in a more powerful position than we ever have been.

>>127823578
Not an argument

>>127823495
A flat tax by definition has to be a tax that takes an equal % from everyone. So, yeah what we both want is a simpler progressive tax with just two brackets.
>try and move the 20% as close to 10% as possible.
I think that's doable with vice taxes, I do think productivity should be taxed as little as possible, but stuff like alcohol, beer, soda should all be significantly taxed.

>>127823830
Anybody? Honest question.

>>127823938
>of course you shouldnt be punished for being successful, but if you are successful in the country that has helped you achieve that success, then they deserve a bit of reimbursement to help others also achieve that goal.

Nope. Do you give share of your income to teachers because they taught you everything?

No. Because you have already paid for his service so he can't demand more money.

For example if I sell microphone to Katy Perry and she uses it in concert to earn money do I have claim on her concert earning?

No.

>>127824096
>Yeah, they did. The US is in a more powerful position than we ever have been.
Except we lost those wars. Better luck next argument.
>Not an argument
Except that demonstrating the obvious weakness of a massively expensive defense line item is an argument.

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>>127823852
>>127823495

I made this a long time ago, the 40% rate is just to balance the budget. I'd prefer it be much lower.

https://www.splitwise.com/taxes/#/brackets/0|196|353|432|479|543/10.1|14.9|25.0|28.1|33.0|35.1/params/1|1|1|0|1|15/name/Current%20tax%20code%20%282012%29

>>127824093
>You mean like how Afghans beat our military with guns, spare parts, and no military?
holy fuck you are dense, you implied that alone, you could beat another nations miliatry. NOT a coordinated effort between afghans with guns. You dumb cunt.
>Translation: I don't understand my own argument.
haha and you say IM the one projecting, you literally had no argument.
But because im so fucking retarded, please explain to me how government control over a currency is "you mean like when I'm forbidden from trading tomatoes for my neighbor's strawberries?"
>Translation: I'm autistic and I often project.
Translation: I'm autistic and i often project about other people projecting.

I dont expect much from a dumb capitalist, but you are really below the standards here. Try harder.

>>127824173
It will never get passed for same reason.

Politicians get money through lobbyists.

Business have to lobby because of high taxation so politician can create loophole for specific business.

This is like teacher giving extra marks to a kid who gives him $10 bribe and you are expecting teacher to stop doing it.

>>127815747
This

Ancap's are faggots, an inherent part of nationalism is ensuring you give back to your nation, there's nothing wrong with charging the most rich and powerful in a nation higher taxes. Of course that doesn't mean I want to take a third of their income, just that wealthy people who can very easily afford to contribute more to their nation should do so.

>>127824455
>holy fuck you are dense, you implied that alone, you could beat another nations miliatry. NOT a coordinated effort between afghans with guns. You dumb cunt.
Translation: My reading comprehension is shit, so I'll interpret your arguments in whatever manner suits my strawman best and refuse to attempt to understand what you're actually saying.
>explain to me how government control over a currency is "you mean like when I'm forbidden from trading tomatoes for my neighbor's strawberries?"
It's illegal to barter because it isn't taxed. Maybe you should get an education, or just try lurking a few more years. You're way out of your depth right now.
>Translation: I'm autistic
The first thing you've said that I actually believe.
>I dont expect much from a dumb capitalist
Never said I was a capitalist. You're either new here or a very slow learner.

>>127824448
Think about The money saved by not consulting tax lawyers or accountants.

There are people whose jobs depend on complicated tax code. And they will lobby hard to keep it that way.

>>127815409
I would support it. It's better than redistribution for the sake of redistribution. That being said, I think that we should abolish welfare and cut military spending.

>>127824639
They will do so voluntarily if you don't force them to though. You think they're just going to throw all their money in a cave somewhere and hoard it? They invest it in jobs, research and development, charity.

>>127824639
Why do you think when government spends money it contributes to nation but ordinary citizen spends same money it doesn't?

Then why justify taxation anyway.

Taxation is basically Jim's money spent by Kim working in government on Tim.

>>127824757
Yeah it's fucked up. Accountants basically have the IRS fuck people up for not filing correctly, so out of fear we have to pay for their services. Fortunately, all I need is Turbotax, I'd hate dealing with this shit before before the advent of tax software.

>>127824736
>It's illegal to barter because it isn't taxed.
ahahahahahahhaahhhahahahahahahha you have got to be clinically retarded. this is a strawman of the highest order, not ONCE did i say bartering would be illegal you doublenigger.
>It's illegal to barter because it isn't taxed. Maybe you should get an education
holy fuck i hope i dont break my face cringing so much, this is so fucking wrong i dont know where to start. Who says its illegal to barter because it isnt taxed? nigger. also
>implying sales tax

>Never said I was a capitalist.
i was making an assumption, feel free to correct me my dude, oh wait...
>You're either new here or a very slow learner.
whoa! so your an oldfag huh? pretty cool!!! teach me the ways of the oldfag how do i become down syndrome like u?
also
>even pretending to know what you are talking about

Thief : Give me your money I will spend that money on things and it will create jobs.

People : Ohh how nice of you to create jobs. Here take our watches too.

Now change thief with government

>It's illegal to barter because it isn't taxed.

What kind of authoritarian hell hole you are living in?

>>127823830
yes. that's why it will not be instituted.

>>127815409
It doesn't matter. Expenses matter, you can have any tax rate you want, it can be 80% flat tax and if you spend money on bullshit you're still going to suffer from budget deficit. It can be up to 50% progressive and the same will happen. It can be 5% flat and the same happens.

Also it doesn't wreck the middle class, it only elevates upper class(but at the same time makes it less financially viable to avoid them) and wrecks the welfare-dependant underclass because there won't be any money for dem programs. Unless you think that people on welfare are middle class lol.

>>127824366
>the only good weapons are perfect superweapons that can stand up to everything on their own
teenager detected

>>127825226
>ahahahahahahhaahhhahahahahahahha you have got to be clinically retarded. this is a strawman of the highest order, not ONCE did i say bartering would be illegal you doublenigger.
It's illegal to barter in every system with an enforced currency. I'd ask you to name one case where that isn't true, but unlike you I'm actually educated, so I won't bother.
>holy fuck i hope i dont break my face cringing so much, this is so fucking wrong i dont know where to start. Who says its illegal to barter because it isnt taxed? nigger. also
That's a lot of typing to say nothing a second time. A sure sign that you're way out of your depth with nothing to say.
>whoa! so your an oldfag huh? pretty cool!!! teach me the ways of the oldfag how do i become down syndrome like u?
At least you didn't deny it.

>>127825553
>teenager detected

>projection detected

>>127815547
>Income tax is ridiculous.
It makes exactly the same sense as property tax.
You can't make an income with a regular wage-earning job or whatever unless the government guards the borders to stop the Chinese just guilloutining you / your employer.
And likewise you (probably) need ROADS to get to your job.
The government is the steward of the infrastructural environment which is necessary to sustain wage-earning employment.

>>127825284
>doesnt understand the origin of civilization/why governments exist in the first place
>implying the people were already prosperous before the "government" came out from the shadows demanding money

>>127825436
this, and to be honest most things that draw on taxes to fund can be funded just as easily by the government printing money, such as the state jobs (incoming austrian economics idiots)

>>127825568
>name one case where that isn't true
we are talking ideals faggot, not real life occurrences.
>nothing to say.
why are you implying that you have said more than me?
>At least you didn't deny it.
deny what? that u are the oh so great oldfag, i mean a whole 4 months on /pol/ how can i top that?? i bet you even learn from reddit too, in the ways of posting and everyone thinking ur cool.

Heres a conversation starter, does government diplomacy have SOME benefits?

>>127815997
The only way you could have a worse position is if you said "raise my taxes and don't bother with the details"

>>127825831
>most things that draw on taxes to fund can be funded just as easily by the government printing money
Did you just spouted economically illiterate bullshit or did I get it wrong?

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Anyone who advocates for progressive tax should be lined up and shot

>You can't make an income with a regular wage-earning job or whatever unless the government guards the borders to stop the Chinese just guilloutining you / your employer.

Better buy guns then.

Politicians in Government will most probably give your money to Chinese instead of saving your ass.

>>127825831
Your ignorance disgusts me.

After much deliberation in attempting to decide whether you were worth any more of my time, I've concluded that the answer is no.

Given about ten years of intense study you might reach my level. Even then, I doubt it. That in itself is no sin. It's your arrogance coupled with your incredible ignorance that's so galling.

The sooner you understand that this board hosts people far, far beyond you in knowledge, the sooner you'll begin learning from them. At that point you may actually improve as a human being.

By my estimate it will take a lot more shaming and humbling before you get there, and you aren't even close to capitulating at this time.

It's a waste of my time to nudge you there. Mid-tier anon's will do it, and their time is far less valuable.

You should consider yourself lucky. Rarely do I give anyone as much attention as this. If you knew who I was, you would agree.

>>127825947
hangon, you may be right, i meant that most government programs that have taxes go into, but also pay out again to government employees, can be funded just as easily by the government printing money.

>>127826119
woah calm down there, slatko, explain your reasoning please :--^)

>>127826461
>that spacing
so you DO learn from reddit! im on to you, im going to learn the secrets :----^)
but to be honest u sound like a really SMART and WELL ROUNDED guy
funny to think i used to be JUST like you
>Mid-tier anon's will do it, their time is far less valuable.
Yes, you could be spending your time making millions! unleashing the knowledge of the ages, helping your people escape their plight, so much more then debating with a dumb gommie i mean whos got time for differing opinions.
>You should consider yourself lucky. Rarely do I give anyone as much attention as this.
please teach me oh great one, i look up to you in every way and so does everyone else on this board. I am blessed for this time you have spent on me! my life goals have been accomplished.
>If you knew who I was, you would agree.
oh shit, you'r hitler!

anyway, i bid you farewell as you go back to watching your prager university videos

>>127815409

Flat tax of 18% above 20k,

If you make 20k or less you don't pay taxes,
if you make above 20k you are taxes 18% of everything above 20k, eg if you made 21k last year you will only pay $180 in taxes, if you made 100k you only pay, 14,400.

>>127826835
hangon, you may be right, i meant that most government programs that have taxes go into, but also pay out again to government employees, can be funded just as easily by the government printing money.

You understand that the only thing that gives fiat currencies any kind of value is the fact that you need them to pay taxes? And that without the need to pay taxes, people would trade with anything else that doesn't constantly lose value?

>>127827130
>the only thing that gives fiat currencies any kind of value is the fact that you need them to pay taxes?
any currency is only given value by what people place on it, in reality gold is just a shiny metal with the odd quality of not decaying.
and besides, im not suggesting that taxes will be abolished, taxes will still be used to fund things such as infrastructure, but it will just be reduced.
>And that without the need to pay taxes, people would trade with anything else that doesn't constantly lose value?
is this a bad thing? i believe in the free market when it comes to different currencies, trade within a nation should be free.

>>127827130
ay btw your flag turned sideways >>127825947

>>127827095
>of everything above 20k, eg if you made 21k last year you will only pay $180 in taxes, if you made 100k you only pay, 14,400
Progressive brackets have always functioned in this way. You didn't think people earning $20,001 were paying ~$2,000 in taxes while people earning $20,000 were paying $0 did you?

>>127826119
Have a better idea of taxation? Where do you get the money to buy the guns to shoot people?

>>127825831
>this, and to be honest most things that draw on taxes to fund can be funded just as easily by the government printing money, such as the state jobs (incoming austrian economics idiots)
If you tried the the costs would increase due to inflation.

>>127825751
Property tax is against the original republican revolutions and generally only high in commonwealth or non western countries. Democracy for the land owners was borrowed from the Greeks.

It should literally be just income tax and sumptuous taxes, including capital gains, carbon tax and drug/alcohol taxes, since these things people either ultimately don't need to do or shouldn't do.

The challenge is fitting all the expensive egalitarian measures western governments use in a debt ridden economy and ultimately low tax system. No property or sales tax cuts a lot.

>>127827324
This is post modern economics. Monetary value is more than just arbitrary agreements, shoo shoo.

We're trying to end poverty and fix the economy at the same time.

>>127827324
>any currency is only given value by what people place on it

Unless you force its usage (like I said, by forcing people to pay taxes in it). Then it doesn't matter how much people value it, they will have to use it either way.

>is this a bad thing?
Not if you're a libertarian.

If you advocate for government it is a terrible thing indeed. Look at the black market for currencies in south america, their currencies are so devalued that people would rather trade in anything else.

I refuse to let a single dollar of what I make at my job go to anyone that isn't me.

>>127827615
>If you tried the the costs would increase due to inflation.
hello austrian economics idiot
look it up, inflation isnt really a problem when society is being so fucking chained up in debt. Inflation frees the people from debt. and it isnt even bad for the economy as long as it expands at the same time. And when money is only printed for state employment, it somewhat evens out, so that inflation is minimized while also putting currency into the economy. Additionally, most inflation we have currently is caused by the big banks, fractional reserve banking does more inflation than simple money printing.
Also, ever wondered why we need to take out international loans when we could just print the money ourselves?
>This is post modern economics. Monetary value is more than just arbitrary agreements, shoo shoo.
elaborate. What is bitcoin if not an arbitrary agreement on value? is bitcoin bad in this aspect? these are questions i do not fully know the answer to, but the way i see it bitcoin is just as fiat, if not more, and it still gets used.
>We're trying to end poverty and fix the economy at the same time.
"we"? who is that. Also, think about what causes poverty when you are looking for a solution.

>>127827656
>Unless you force its usage
this is true, but it is still value being placed on the currency by people, if you count tax collectors as people.
>Not if you're a libertarian.
im a national socialist, but i support free market currency, does that make me, or you wrong?
>Look at the black market for currencies in south america
proper regulation of a currency must be maintained for it to be an appealing currency, if government currency turns to shit then that government is objectively bad in that aspect.

>>127828145
nice primitive egoism, you would do great living in the Congo.

>>127828343
>primitive
I can shout adjectives at you too and it won't make you any less of a commie

>>127828343
>look it up, inflation isnt really a problem when society is being so fucking chained up in debt. Inflation frees the people from debt.
Tax the fucking interest banks make then, let's see what that does to perceptions of debt.

Inflation is a problem for poor earnings.

Bitcoin isn't an authorised, money basket currency. The Yuan is and it's gold standard, USD is and it's petrodollar, pretty sure the Euro has some standards, whatever.

This means you can trade these things for something material.

>>127828577
He's a very strange commie considering what he's advocating. It's like talking to Mugabe who doesn't know he's Mugabe or what happened to Mugabe.

>>127828577
>not understanding that the only reason civilization exists as we know it today is due to people working together and sharing their resources within their group/tribe
that kind of severe egotistic philosophy on wealth is a philosophy fit for africans, i bet you read ayn rand faggot.
you are animalistic in your concepts of sharing, working together and cooperation.

>>127828782
>Inflation is a problem for poor earnings.
this couldnt be more wrong
people with poor earnings often spend their money as soon as they get it, leaving no value in the money to be lost before its spent again
For the very rich it makes it VERY uncomfortable for them to store their wealth in currency, and forces them to spend it into the economy

>USD is and it's petrodollar
are you implying that you can exchange 1 USD at a fixed rate for a fixed amount of crude oil?
>pretty sure the Euro has some standards, whatever.
i dont think these currencies are as backed up by physical things as you like to believe.
not sure about the Yuan. In comparison to bitcoin, most currencies, though, are similar in terms of fiat-ness.

>He's a very strange commie
national socialist.
although i find the comparison to mugabe amusing

regardless, last bump im going to go eat dinner.
i hope you fags bring up some real arguments while im gone, keep the thread bumped

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>>127815409
all taxes (except for sin taxes) should be replaced by a single sales tax
(or VAT). completely eliminate the income tax, corporate tax, social
security tax, etc. the sales tax rate should be automatically raised/lowered
to cover the amount spent in the previous year, with an allowance for
surplus/deficit depending on the state of the economy.

>>127815409
Taxation is theft, but a flat tax isn't a bad thing

>>127817777
A FUCKING LEAF!!!

>>127829091
>people with poor earnings often spend their money as soon as they get it, leaving no value in the money to be lost before its spent again
On things that have prices set by inflation and supply/demand including sales tax. The more inflation or sales tax, the more poor people spend on what poor people spend.

And no I don't believe the prices for price fixed currencies are that set. "Fiat" currencies are rarely truly fiat, there's variables involved.

>national socialist.
>although i find the comparison to mugabe amusing
Good, both you and him kick people out not because they're dangerous or because they're unproductive, but because of their ethnicity. It's an adequate comparison and equally inefficient.

>>127829279
In frugal societies the government would collapse. Then again, if you convince the people to somehow depend on bonds anything is possible, including 200%+ debt/GDP ratio.

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Is there any problem in eliminating the ability to reduce your taxable income and keeping the income tax system?
As in fuck your charity or work expenses pay your share

>>127827594

As I do people's taxes every year, I tend to give easy to follow examples.

>>127816892
>called a georgist a boot licker
just die

>>127831141
Are those people retarded?

>>127815409
I like it. The way the tax system is set up now, the middle class seem to pay more as a percentage than the wealthy anyway. Seems silly that they cry against a flat tax with that in mind.

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>>127815409
/pol/ still hasn't figured out the pragmatic answer to the JQ.

Might as well tax (((them))) at 6 gorillion percent, rather than gassing them.

Give it time.

/pol/ will figure it out.

>>127815526
Not necessarily. You probably need some tax to at least run the basic functions of government. Why not have an opt in system for welfare and other "charity" taxes?

>>127815409
I think we should end welfare, food stamps, housing, heating, Obama phone, transportation, and all other assistance programs.

No one should be taxed for the benefit of subhumans.

>>127816892
>The rich should be taxed higher than the poor, debate me fags

but they already are with a flat tax

>>127831257

When I have to ask them the following question "Did you have health insurance all 12 months last year?" and the response is "I don't understand the question." you tell me.

>>127815409

I agree with it. All women with tiny breasts should be taxed.

>>127831812
Lmfao, what.

>>127829448
>both you and him kick people out not because they're dangerous or because they're unproductive, but because of their ethnicity.
"wrong"
true national socialist ideology promotes success within their own people, and acknowledges that ethnic homogeneity is beneficial to social conditions.
dangerous collectives can exist too, and you can't deny it. there are exceptions for every rule, however, thats why even in nazi germany small minority groups existed.
mugabe was a fucking idiot because he was supporting homogeneity of the shit kind, he wanted 100% shit instead of 100% greatness. and he was REALLY indiscriminate in his discrimination of whites.

>On things that have prices set by inflation and supply/demand including sales tax.
isnt that EXACTLY what i just said, they spend it on things before the value is lost, ie prices raise EVEN MORE. Also sales tax is an abomination.
Regardless, high inflation is not an ideal, but sometimes a necessity. as long as inflation is controlled it poses no more threat to the economy than deflation.

>>127829279
oh boy you really put all your brain into this one didnt you.
sales tax is the ultimate creation of the jew, just makes everything expensive for everyone except the very wealthy.

>>127829351
>taxation is theft
when will this meme end
think of it like rent, you pay rent to live in good living conditions, you pay tax to live in a stable environment, if you REALLY dont like tax, migrate to the ocean or somalia.

>>127831230
whats a georgist? serious question dont bully, its not my fault ive never heard of your irrelevant ideas.

>>127831525
>Why not have an opt in system for welfare and other "charity" taxes?
because then only the people receiving welfare would pay their welfare taxes. it would not be in the economic interests for people to pay welfare tax, so much so that the welfare payouts will be negligible

>>127831803
no they are taxed at the same rate. do you not know what a flat tax rate is?

>>127823994
>Property tax is worse than income tax you faggot.
How?

>It is literally impossible to own land in America, you are just renting from the government.
and? they are the ones protecting the territorial integrity of the country

>Property tax makes the entire population slaves.
that's the price you pay for using the land from the state

>>127831940
>no they are taxed at the same rate. do you not know what a flat tax rate is?

yeah, but they pay more money don't they

>>127815409
fuck off kike
/pol/ is fond of executing the entirety of the judicial branch and making a webm of it

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>>127831940
>because then only the people receiving welfare would pay their welfare taxes

Really makes one think......

>>127815409
Coercive Taxation is theft. A coerced flat tax is just flat theft, marginally better than "we're basically just going to steal from you on every level whenever you buy anything" but still not morally optimal.

>>127831565
>obama phone

>>127831940
>welfare payouts will be negligible
That would put the responsibility on those that advocate for it to put up or shut up while also not forcing morality or charity.

>>127832180
Want to live in society, you opt into the responsibilities.

>>127832012
yes they pay more money, but as a percentage its not more money.
you arent seriously suggesting a fixed fee are you?

>>127831967
>that's the price you pay for using the land from the state

>implying the state has the authority to own all land.
land should be organized into local communities, if anything, property tax should go to the local level government

>>127832122
>still doesnt address the issue of who will pay welfare if welfare tax is optional
keep in mind im not promoting welfare, your suggestion just doesnt make any sense.

>>127832180
>taxation is theft
get the fuck out why are there so many retarded ancaps and libertarians in here. is this what they mean when they say nu/pol/?
to explain again, think of it like rent, you pay rent to live in good living conditions, you pay tax to live in a stable environment, if you REALLY dont like tax, migrate to the ocean or somalia.

>>127832063
>implying /pol/ is one person
>promoting terrorism
>not a CIA shill

>>127832278
so you are essentially saying to abolish welfare by just not funding it.

>>127823076
>Make 49000, take home 49000
>Make 50000, take home 40000

No fuck you.

>>127832422
you dont know how tax works do you?
it obviously means 20% of earnings ABOVE 50,000 is taxed

has the average intelligence of /pol/ dropped in the recent months? i have been away

>>127832390
>>implying the state has the authority to own all land.
yeah, they do

it's called territorial integrity

>>127832345
that arguement stopped working when all habitable land was conquered by governments leaving no way to opt out
there is no outside society anymore so that hypothetical free choice is gone

>>127832422
it's more like this

>Make 50K or less, take home 100%
>Make 60K, take home 58K
>Make 100K, take home 90K

>>127832584
that's the world we live in

>>127832505
key word: OWN
the federal government has NO authority to OWN ALL THE LAND, maybe they can set up nature reserves, but the state should NOT own all the land
its different to having control of the border

land should be organized at the local government level

>>127832584
>implying the ocean is uninhabitable
>implying you can't just go live in a national forest until you die
>defeatism
many things wrong with this post, get your head sorted out and stop blaming other people for your problems

>>127832390
>by not funding it
No that would be a strawman. I for one would opt into many welfare systems up to the point that I'd be paying about 15% of my meager income. I think the government could function as a good organization for the nation's shared interest in charity and welfare though it is currently inefficient...however I understand the notion other people have regarding being forced to being charitable or moral and it seems to be arguably a violation of their liberty to give them no choice in the matter. What I'm saying is an opt in system for non essential government functions would put the responsibility on those who advocate for welfare to put their money where their mouth is instead of forcing others to. I'm curious how many people that advocate for welfare would themselves part with some of the money THEY earned when tax season rolled around.

>>127815409
im in favour but provided we tax teh big business on much higher rates than small business

>Property tax makes sense
no it doesnt
its a way to bring down the middle class

>>127831940
So you're a white supremacist that even expects non white authoritarians to act within white supremacy. You post too much.

Using inflation to pay off debts has extreme effects of what sales tax causes. It's a dumb idea and I won't tell you again. Income tax contributes the majority of a governments income and flat income taxes don't have any arguable positive benefit to society.

Taxation is theft which is why it needs to be done sparingly.

>>127831967
Disincentivising land ownership increases homelessness, as fewer houses are rented driving the price of rent, and stifles the growth of the middle-class, who pay the majority of the taxes.

>>127832180
Tax must be coercive, no one chooses to pay.

>>127832422
There's got to be a minimum bracket that doesn't pay tax and it's got to be relatively high to promote wage growth and increase poor earnings.

That 9.9999k jump is just an unpleasant imperfection in tax brackets, a pure mathematical system would be nice including negative income tax, but it'd be complicated enough that the only solution is to take control over everyone's bank accounts. Not very libre.

>>127832589
He's talking about the minimum tax bracket jump in which you pay more by earning one dollar more after 49,999k annually.

This is really done because taxing poor people is very counter intuitive.

>>127832584
Property rights mein nigger. You rent this land here. I'm sorry there is none other available but while you do have your lease on life here, you are expected to join the home owner's association and be a good neighbor.

>>127832722
>the federal government has NO authority to OWN ALL THE LAND, maybe they can set up nature reserves, but the state should NOT own all the land

in the case of the USA, the federal government is the government that fought for independence from the British Monarchy, then annexed the rest of the territory through various means

the land belongs to the US federal government and that's the same for every other national government

>>127815526
Odd way of spelling theft you got there.

>>127832843
>Disincentivising land ownership increases homelessness, as fewer houses are rented driving the price of rent, and stifles the growth of the middle-class, who pay the majority of the taxes.

if you remove all taxes except for property tax, the upper class would be paying the vast majority of the taxes and the poor would be paying none (at least directly, of course)

>>127832904
Not to mention that if anon was really serious, he could easily get lost in the woods where no one would give a fuck about chasing him down for his community dues...but something tells me he enjoys the comfort provided by cohabitation, roads, bridges, economy, etc.

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>>127832390
>implying /pol/ is one person
yes
>promoting terrorism
yes
>not a CIA shill
no
...yes?
no I'm not a shill
yes I'm not a shill
I don't fucking know

corporations need to knock it off with the outsourcing and start hiring locally in order to swing capitalism into where it should be

>>127833111
extreme libertarianism is founded on nothing but selfishness and a complete disregard for society

>>127832789
not saying this is a bad idea, its just that welfare will never be paid if not enough people want to help fund it
Maybe it would be different if you could choose where your money goes.

>>127832843
>So you're a white supremacist that even expects non white authoritarians to act within white supremacy.
"wrong"
i never said i expected mugabe to be a white supremacist, i just pointed out how black nationalism isnt really a GOOD thing. do you disagree?
>Using inflation to pay off debts
instead of debts, my dude. however paying off debts with money printing wouldnt be THAT bad, sure it would be shit for a while but thats what you get for trusting the private central banking jew, and international money lenders.

>flat income taxes don't have any arguable positive benefit to society.
are you confusing me for someone else? i support progressive income tax.

>Taxation is theft which is why it needs to be done sparingly.
i agree, i think federal tax should be kept to a minimum, state tax would make up more of the costs for utilities/ infrastructure and shit that should be dealt on a state level, and again on the local level
relative autonomy should be provided to local governments

>>127832904
>belongs
sure it may be territory under the nation of the US, but it is not owned by the federal government, the government does not have full jurisdiction on what happens in this land
you are essnetially arguing semantics, because i agree that land can be considered territory under a nation, but i dont agree with the government having OWNERSHIP over all land.

>>127833128
>corporations need to knock it off with the outsourcing and start hiring locally in order to swing capitalism into where it should be
yeah well, its more profitable to outsource so what can you do.

>>127833309
I share some libertarian views and the party over all is probably closest to my views than any of the others but I think some people do get to caught up in defining their beliefs according to an ideology and start thinking in narrow black and white terms.

>>127833478
>sure it may be territory under the nation of the US, but it is not owned by the federal government, the government does not have full jurisdiction on what happens in this land
>you are essnetially arguing semantics, because i agree that land can be considered territory under a nation, but i dont agree with the government having OWNERSHIP over all land.

no I'm arguing about who directly owns the property
what you're talking about is how the constitution is set up, but the only reason the constitution is even legitimate is because the federal government operates under it. notice how many times the constitution is ignored by the federal without any consequence, because who will stop them?

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>>127815409

VAT and LVTs are strictly better.
They encourage savings and investment when compared to other taxes.

Flat taxes themselves serve to lower bureaucracy.

>>127832390
Why are you so vehemently defending your masters? Do you not realize you are a slave? Taxation is the means to keep you a slave for the rest of your live.

>>127832880
all true but don't act like it's a choice when it's clearly not

>>127833618
same, I'm a monarchist personally, but that's mostly because I started off as a libertarian and started extrapolating from the principles of property rights

>>127833478
>would never be paid if not enough people want to fund it
It would be interesting if it could be tested. Seems likely that it wouldn't be funded nearly in the capacity it is now for sure. I guess the allotments would have to be scaled each year depending on how much the IRS collects from each previous year.

>>127817799
I'm a military fag and all that but doesn't $625 billion seem a bit much? Even cutting that a few hundred billion and we'd still be spending more than most countries.

>>127833666
Like I said, you can go deep into the woods if you wanted to avoid all that. Realistically speaking I don't think the government is going to come collect anything from you. But we all realize the opportunity cost in doing so.

>>127833818
>monarchist
Being in the service, what is your take on the military industrial complex. Lots of people complain that they are milking the system? What do you think?

>>127833650
taxation in the modern world i agree is too high to be desirable, but tax when used properly is 100% necessary to the existence of civilization. I am not "defending my masters" as you say, but defending the existence of civilization.

>>127833620
oh i think i know what went wrong, i am talking about ideals im not commenting on the current situation in the US.

>>127817799
wow if thats true thats a fucking SHIT TON of money going to welfare, what a waste.

>>127833715
monarchism is good, but only as good as your leader is. some kind of mix would be nice

>>127833976
Ignore the quote. I'm not even sure how that happened desu.

>>127815409
Sure, if it's low, 5-10%

>>127834037
>i am talking about ideals im not commenting on the current situation in the US.

exactly, i'm taking more of a practical approach. in the end politics really matters in the practical and in practice land is owned by the national government, not the individual. if it were owned entirely by the individual, then the law would not apply there and it would basically be a sovereign nation (in which case the individual himself would count as a national government and the land would still be owned by a national government of sorts, haha)


>monarchism is good, but only as good as your leader is. some kind of mix would be nice

yeah i'm not one for absolute monarchism. more a constitutional system where the executive branch is entirely aristocratic but the legislature could still be democratically elected

>>127833478
>its more profitable to outsource
oh no the fuck you didn't

if I choose to outsource I lose domestic credibility and quality, the very foundation my product is built upon!
not to mention all the import export bullshit that will make up for the cheap outsourced labor... in the end, pound for pound, outsourced or local I'm still bleeding $$$, what I need is less government regulation so I have more $ to hire more people from mine, from yours, from everyone's community, so everyfuckingbody has a job and something to be proud of.

>>127834405
>all this virtue signalling
What you really meant to say is that you need less regulation so you can pocket more of the profit and hire just as many workers are you need at just as much pay as they will take. There's nothing wrong with that, but you should be honest about it. It's not like I know your identity here anyway.

>>127816892
>The rich should be taxed higher than the poor, debate me fags
The rich can use their money to produce more, create more jobs, provide more goods and services, and contribute more to society in general.
The more money you take away from them, the more you are reducing their potential to do so.
So unless you can do what they do but better (which is doubtful because to be where they are they got to be pretty damn good at it, plus they have more knowledge and experience), it doesn't necessarily pay off for society

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>>127834673
>The rich can use their money to produce more, create more jobs, provide more goods and services, and contribute more to society in general.
keyword: CAN
they CAN also use their money to promote consumerism, control the people to buy their product, jew your nation up, and generally destroy good society in place of a high consumerist, complacent population so that they gain even more money and control

which do you think sounds better in the ears of a jew?
theres a quote somewhere, something like "to truly test a mans character, give him power"
and you know what? letting shitty people gain that much power, in the form of wealth, with no regulation, will lead to bad bad things. The very rare 1% of wealthy people that have good in their mind and wish to help their people, may well do what you suggest, but its still a VERY small amount compared to the wrong-doers.

profit maximization, the principle that modern capitalism relies on, also causes the worst of society to be brought out.

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>>127834624
?

>>127817799
>stupid liberals believe they'd have the quality of life they're enjoying right now if it wasn't for the military keeping their privileged economical status in the world

oh you poor poor sheltered anon, you're fighting against your own interests and you're too naive to even realize it

>>127835724
>profit maximization, the principle that modern capitalism relies on, also causes the worst of society to be brought out.
i mean
"profit maximization, the principle that modern capitalism relies on, causes the worst of society to be brought out."
i dont know why i put an "also" in there.

regardless, bump

>>127838787
>"profit maximization, the principle that modern capitalism relies on, causes the worst of society to be brought out."

but that's a simplistic analysis to boot. Society degradation as we're witnessing it is caused by the erosion of the family unit. Capitalism is the main promoter of the family unit, so it can't be both at the same time.
Blame the governments who are working hard to replace the family unit. They take money from the family's wages and makes everyone rely on the state for the safety net/leeching. This ensures statists that the state will always be needed. Capitalism has nothing to do with it.

I think, until we have a white ethnostate, I'm against taxation in all of its forms.

>>127824254
conveniently left unanswered

>>127839994
>Capitalism is the main promoter of the family unit
explain?
i can see how some types of socialism and welfare can degrade the family unit, but not how capitalism reinforces the family unit.
there are ways we can promote the family unit without capitalism, and the side effects are much less "adverse". (soft fascism and ethnic nationalism)

>>127840523
whoops, honestly didnt see that.
ps that was fucking retarded why would anyone think that question was too complex that i couldnt answer it so i just ignored it?
dumb.

>>127824254
>Nope. Do you give share of your income to teachers because they taught you everything?
yes, you pay them to teach you, government is an ongoing thing, its not like a 1 off thing where you pay it and you get civilization for yourself.
costs are ongoing.

>For example if I sell microphone to Katy Perry and she uses it in concert to earn money do I have claim on her concert earning?
yes but this is again, its a different situation, if you seriously cant see the difference i think you need a cognitive checkup.
The one-off cost is there, and there are no other ongoing costs. What you are suggesting is that the microphone should be free.

>>127840952
They are not your costs that are ongoing, dummy. You think a population with an average IQ of 100 won't strive for sophistication without your efforts to earmark some other people's money for them to use? Why not pay for my toothbrush; could be that I wouldn't care much for tidiness if I didn't live among other people. The point of all this being, societies are formed by the people inhabiting those societies.

>>127842960
what is going on in your post, you make no coherent statements or arguments. parts of your post are literally just word salad. ill try to respond to your more lucid arguments but i cant promise anything
>They are not your costs that are ongoing
what is not costs that are ongoing, you mean taxes?
so you are seriously arguing that infrastructure costs, military costs, costs of maintaining stability, are ONE OFF COSTS that are somehow paid at birth? if so thats just fucking retarded
>You think a population with an average IQ of 100 won't strive for sophistication without your efforts to earmark some other people's money for them to use?
thats not what im saying, you imply that i am PRO WELFARE which is WRONG. i am ANTI WELFARE. also, i dont really think your average 100 IQ joe WILL strive for "sophistication" (by which i assume u mean something like "wealth")
>Why not pay for my toothbrush; could be that I wouldn't care much for tidiness if I didn't live among other people.
what the fuck makes no sense.
>The point of all this being, societies are formed by the people inhabiting those societies.
what the fuck is that supposed to mean

low quality post, my finnish friend, i expected more of you

>>127842960
While you're at it, pay for my clothes too. One should pay for education because it serves a larger goal of a civilized populace; presumably people not walking around in barrels and suspenders does too. Clothes are an "ongoing thing" by your logic.

>>127844488
okay this is just moving into insanity-tier strawmans. Yes, education serves a larger goal, so does clothing, the difference is that the costs of clothing is negligible for most people, as well as most people already having clothing. Its fucking retarded to think that clothing is such an issue in society that the government will need to step in. The absurdity of your post leads me to believe you may be experiencing a cognitive disorder.

also, define "ongoing thing" by my logic, as you understand it, because i have no clue. It seems to me that you are GRAVELY mistaken by the meaning of what i am saying, maybe you did this intentionally as a strawman.

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>>127815409
A person is a person no matter how rich.

>>127815718
>Flat tax is a tax cut for the rich
That's not true. America's corporate tax rates, for example, are some of the highest in the developed world, but it doesn't matter because they just sidestep them.

As my family always told me, "tax evasion is illegal, tax avoidance is tradition". A flat tax makes that harder

>>127840952
>i can see how some types of socialism and welfare can degrade the family unit, but not how capitalism reinforces the family unit.

In capitalism fostering a good, united family is the most efficient way of dealing with life problems. It fosters togetherness and family bonding because the money the state would be taking from you is being distributed among your family and peers.
The family is essentially the only genuine commune you will ever find in a human society, and that's only because there is a shared interest in helping each other. Ironic how capitalism is the only ideology where that happens.

>>127845336
t. rich person

>>127835724
Why do you think the government officials are any better, or that they don't squander that money as well? That's like their national sport here

>>127815409
>implying I wouldn't love a 10% flat tax as someone making 50k a year

Kill yourslef commie

>>127822876
Oh wow look a retard.

>>127845097
>the difference is that the costs of clothing is negligible for most people, as well as most people already having clothing

Earlier, you seemed to think that
>costs are ongoing.
is why paying for education once isn't enough. So I guess
>you pay them to teach you, government is an ongoing thing
isn't a sufficient argument for government-funded education.

Now, you changed your argument from that mentioned above to
> the difference is that the costs of clothing is negligible for most people

That's a totally different dispute. I was criticising the first argument, not the latter you just brought up.

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>>127835724
Now that you talk about power, IIRC the most problematics individuals always happen to be in the government.
> letting shitty people gain that much power, in the form of wealth, with no regulation, will lead to bad bad things.
I am still more worried about giving the government the power to regulate as they please.
In fact, that perspective scares me shitless compared to rich people manupulating mass media

>>127833638
>>127834673
>>127846456
>>127847003

At what point did Spain become a western extension of the Butthurt Belt?

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>>127815409
Flat tax (rate) is literally the most fair system of taxation there is and is the most effective way to close all loopholes.

FRIENDLY REMINDER THAT THE SHILLS ARE SLIDING THE SETH RICH INVESTIGATION BY WEBB AND GOODMAN

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rbr3pmfhEgU

https://www.pscp.tv/w/1rmxPPnkQdQxN

>>127815409
never gonna happen, politicians lose too much power with it

modern tax system is designed to be a wealth transfer device..

>>127823578
>one decent missile
Most ships nowadays have antimissile systems.

>>127848017
being ruled by unironical socialists for decades turn you into that

>>127849568
The PSOE have been ironic socialists since the eighties though, and they have recently completed their transition into becoming an Andalusian party recently.

>>127815747
The rich would still pay more with a flat tax, it means everyone pay the same percentage of their income, not the same amount.

>>127815409
Why would anyone even think about something as retarded as a flat tax when there's progressive taxing
serious question lads

>>127846838
no, originally education was discussed from an individual's perspective, not from the perspective of the government providing it.
i did not just bring up a new argument that is something you made, and i responded to it.

>>127846197
okay fair enough, surely there must be some way to translate this benefit away from the corruption and collusion that comes with capitalism.

>>127846456
at least the government has some accountability to the people, corporations are only accountable to the money they make. Sure government will need a lot of fixup so that money isnt wasted but these are ideals we are talking.

>>127847003
thats fair enough, there are a lot of things that can go wrong. It all needs to start with 1 great leader to make sure everything is set straight and it stays in order, getting a proper government functioning is the largest issue here. Political structure systems (such as parliaments) arent my strong point.

>>127848210
loopholes is an interesting point, but i think a lot of the loopholes we have currently were lobbied for by the rich, naturally a progressive tax rate shouldn't have that many loopholes.

>>127848631
transfering from whom, to whom?

>>127850286
yeah still, 30% tax when you are poor is a really big deal for the individual, but that 30% tax is nothing to the government, the bulk of the governments money comes from the rich's taxes. Cutting tax on the poor helps them reach greater wealth, and doesnt majorly affect the budget so why not?

okay this is my final bump
good chat, my friends :---^)
i am off for the night

Flat tax doesn't make any sense

Either you bury the poor with a tax burden ($10k per year!) or you collect hardly any taxes from everyone ($100 per year!)

>>127848017
1898 or so

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All forms of taxation are theft.

>>127816106
Yes it is you fucking stefbot autist.

>>127815871
Rich people would just give poor people money to buy them shit.

>>127815409
I make just over 100k a year. I pay my local and state taxes joyfully, as I can see it's effects directly and it supports the local community and the state.
I reluctantly have to pay federal taxes only to see them spent on the niggers, the spics, and the white trash who are leeches on the rest of us.
Flat tax is a cut for the most wealthy, but I can see why that would be a good thing.

>>127815409
Flat tax is for people who have never taken a tax class.

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>>127815409

>>127815409
FLAT TAX BUT HIGHER WAGES.

>>127815409
>Fair taxation hurts the most taxed class