Hate Speech Not Covered Under 1st Amendment

We need to do something.

>>127747868
This is exactly what the 2nd is for.

>>127747437
I knew as soon as "hate speech" became a thing it was going to be extremely dangerous to free speech.

>>127748110
Nah, just raz them and make the public see how retarded they are. They want you to attack them so they can say "See! Hate speech kills!".

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>>127747437
This girl from the story who is supposed to be 16 has 2 kids, from at least 2014. That's her new baby. How much they pay her to lie?

>>127747437
making words illegal is a direct violation.
just petition to bring it to court and it will be revoked

It's exactly the same angle German politicians use to attack freedom of speech, especially on the internet. The globalists really are coordinating their attacks on our freedom.

Luckily, the USA has Trump and his appointed supreme court judge. You will be ok, we won't.

>>127747437
Good to know you're on the side of psychopathic murderers. Keep pushing your agenda, show the world what kind of subhuman scum you really are.

>>127748110
He has a Twitter, we habe to do something
https://twitter.com/tedwheeler

What was the actual story with the Portland stabber?

I keep looking for info on exactly what went down, but no one will give the play by play. I suspect the guys that got stabbed took virtue signaling too far and got in the dude's face and possibly physical with him.

>>127747437

congress shall make no law infringing on our speech...supreme court will undo this...

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>>127748487

>KKK rallies are ok
>free speech rallies not ok
Very peculiar.

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>>127748584
There is no play by play. They keep it as vague as possible with these fake attacks. Somehow a bad man stabs THREE people in the neck on a crowded train. Then they build the victims up into saintly Martyrs who were paladins of justice and lawful goodness.

they did the exact same thing with the Richard Collins stabbing a couple weeks ago

>>127749049
Mate you gotta admit one of us will go off the deep end and pull some shit like that

>>127748638
I like that this is all you can ever come back with. You are an empty vessel of hate and stupidity.

>>127749049
Yeah because there's nothing wrong with stabbing people if they were the wrong colour. You are literally sub human.

>>127747437
Didn't supreme court stated otherwise repeatedly.

Goddamn it I hate living in this city. It's near collapse. The free speech rally is the same weekend as fleet week and the Rose parade and this place is a powderkeg. That stabbing is just a small part of skyrocketing crime and violence, mainly from the increasingly "urban" and "culturally diverse" population. Meth and heroin are huge. Massive hobo camps just outside the city. People sleeping/camping on every street downtown. Antifa runs amok regularly with little opposition. Please help us pol!

>>127748850
>>KKK rallies are ok
So at least those libtards and us have one common goal.

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>>127749601
I don't care what color they are. The attack is fake and did not happen.

>>127747437
Yes only speech that everyone agrees with is protected. Duh

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>>127747437
Reminder: The guy who killed the two faggots was pretending to be a Trump supporter, but was actually a leftist and the media is helping him in his crime by lying about this.

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>>127747437
The portland mayor needs some angry phone calls

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>>127750811
One of the antifa's got slashed
His name is micah fletcher

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>>127747437

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>>127751045
Stupid leftist cut another leftist

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>>127751526
Why do all these men look like they would turn around and say with a lisp "I like guys too, big boy"

>>127751860
Nice

>>127749601
How do you know he wasn't attacked by 3 people who didn't like him?
>you don't
Are you sure he wasn't defending himself from 3 attackers?
>you aren't

The only thing we know is 3 men attacked someone who was saying mean things. The girls interviewed said they ran from the situation, so her want harassing them. He expressed his displeasure ady the unwashed horde of Muslim invaders, and was attacked by a group. If he wasn't a felon, it would of turned into a shooting spree.

Meanwhile in Canada, their prime minister is advised of being brined by Soros and they don't even complain. It's more interesting to worry about things that don't effect them and they can't affect.

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Return of the stickman june 4th portland,oregon

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I must have missed when an amendment to the Constitution was passed that put the Mayor of Portland in a position above that of the Supreme Court.

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>>127747437
>scenario: deranged psychotic anti-religious bernie supporter that hates jews, christians and muslims equally goes on a stabbing spree killing two white christians
>response: WE MUST STOP THE XENOPHIBIC FAR RIGHT!
why was i born on this planet at this time? every single day a thinking mind must recoil in pain from the stupidity on display.

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Antifa claims they have been traing to fight the patriot groups.

>>127750235
What the fuck is wrong with liberal run hellholes? I was raised to respect public spaces, in my state it's illegal and actually enforced that you can't squat in public places (like set up a tent like I see in Paris and shit), littering laws are enforced for shit like even cigarette butts. A cop will pull you over for throwing a butt out if they are feeling bored and write you a ticket for littering. I know, I shouldn't brag about living in an authoritarian place like that, but this is the type of shit I thought cops did. Make homeless rapers and drug addicts get off the fucking street. Go be poor somewhere else. Like what the fuck? When did it become okay to fuck up public places with large homelessness and shit?

Fuck I just hate cities in general, but I see shit like Paris streets and stuff and I just can't understand it.

>>127751860
This is still going on regardless of cuck mayor, correct?

>>127747437
>Hate Speech Not Covered Under 1st Amendment

>court opinion not found

>>127752046
This hasn't been canceled has it?

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>>127750235
You gotta help yourself bud

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>>127747437
how does the routine go? set up some fake event like hanging bananas by nooses or whatever. Begin making demands.

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>>127747437
>To date, more than $1 million has been raised online for the victims of the deadly stabbing.

The incident remains under investigation.

>>127748110
>muh guns!

lmao you faggot conservatives say the same thing literally EVERY TIME and you have not yet once used them. the Dems know you're all full of hot air.

The only speech not protected by the First Amendment is slander/libel, sedition, and screaming fire in a crowded theater when there is no fire (I forget the technical legal name for that).

>>127753545
we don't use them because we aren't animals like the left is

>>127747437
>Portland
The left coast needs to be liberated.

>>127753562
incitement of violence or panic?

>>127748584
A Bernie supporting psychotic Jew who talked about killing Hillary and Trump supporters and assassinating Sessions because he's racist.

>>127753179
>whose son, Taliesin Myrddin
fucking elves

I just called the mayors office let them know their mayor is a coward and a piece of shit.

>>127753562
You forgot obscenity.

>>127749601
Defenders of Muslims are not human and deserve death.

>>127752681
Its still on bit the mayor is trying to cancel itm

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Alright Pacific Northwestern /pol/ocks, sound off! Who's here and who's going to this rally?

I'm in Portland and I might if I can get the day off but I have a real job so I might not be able to make it.

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>>127753808
that lady is a full blown auroville cult kook. Hangs out with people like

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June 4th

>>127753672
YES!

It begins June 4

>>127753873
>You forgot obscenity.
Obscenity is a weird one, because there are quite a number of situations where obscenity isn't punished by law, there are only restrictions against it in certain venues.

>>127747437
>>127747868
There is no hate speech. Only speech.

>>127753955
Im gonna try making it to the june 10th anti islam rally
I wont be able to make it to the june 4th patriot rally.

>>127748110
God Bless USA

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June 4th portland,oregon.

>>127747437
there is a 2nd one for a reason

>>127748850
>KKK rallies are ok
well they can't go around arresting every undercover agent that would be silly

>>127754140
you can say fuck and nigger faggot all you want except on TV/radio and if you want adbux on youtube

Kim pls nuke portland

>>127754497
>wasting precious ammo on mouth breathing retards

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To all attending Portland Antifa is actually pretty large and they're some of the worst outside of Berkley. They plan attempting to doxx who they can so can so be prepared. If you can stomach it read posts about the rally on /r/portland to get an idea of the opposition but that place is terrible beyond description.

so islam is banned then?

>>127747437
This shit cannot infect America. We are the last bastion of freedom of speech.

>>127755041
Unmask antifa

>>127754963
full magazine of cartridges doesn't cost more than $10 unless you've got a meme caliber

>>127747437
He is factually incorrect, and I look forward to the SCOTUS case.

>>127748638
in all seriousness this stuff is bretty good iced tea i like the sweetened lemon flavour

>>127747437
when the guy who stabbed those people wasnt a racist but actually an anti-trump progressive who wanted to destroy all non-christians.
"WHITE SUPREMACIST TRUMP GUY IS NUTS!"
the media should be held accountable for reactionary behavior like this.

>>127749745
Yes. I can remember 5 such cases off the top of my head, in fact

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>>127755117
Precisely. I urge you all to obey the law and show respect for law enforcement and the city. We should be planning on conducting organized surveillance of when Antifa fails to do these things. We can learn from how we got Clanton and hopefully put some of these assholes behind bars if they step out of line. We need dedicated photographers and cameramen on the sidelines.

>>127752558
You should visit Seattle in summertime.

>>127755601
Nah I'm ok thanks

>>127750235
Please don't send them to California.

>>127754785
Thats because TV/Radio transmits over public channels and is governed by the Fed Govt. (((Youtube))) is just rules of the site but you wont get arrested

>>127693911 (OP)
>>127698525
>mayor of said city is revoking said license because herp-a-derp two people were stabbed by an (((alt-righter))) who even other alt-righters have tried to distance themselves from

Actually, he was a Bernie-supporting, rabid Anti-Trump faggot.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/05/update-portland-killer-voted-bernie-reported-trump-supporters-police-nothing-video/

His posts

https://imgur.com/a/QsVkC
https://imgur.com/a/bBuyf

Trump supporters telling him to leave a rally where he tried to join us and act like a Nazi Sympathizer among us

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Can4b5XRkxI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZL5-_y9jIY

Archive Links to his facebook posts

http://archive.is/zhLUH
http://archive.is/gc8DR
http://archive.is/2lOqu
http://archive.is/tkwUT
http://archive.is/biyEK
http://archive.is/Ixfdj
http://archive.is/rxVXR
http://archive.is/lhXTH
http://archive.is/Y5lAM
http://archive.is/HC30f
http://archive.is/hHHCf
http://archive.is/j1wF5

>>127755988
You sent more than enough of yours over here califag. I mean its not you personally but Calicarpet baggers are a big fucking problem in Oregon. You fucking ruined Bend.

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>>127755597
We need camera men and unmaskers
Dont let tiny transgendered antifa scream in your face without grabbing their mask.

>>127748584
a mental patient got scared when whiteknights started whiteknighting, ended up stabbing them

>>127756962
Thats how it will play out in court most likely

>>127747437
>left-wing mayor blames right-wing for left-wing violence
>leftist mayor wants to shut down free speech because allowing speech to be free is to allow hatred to exist
>h-hate speech is not f-free speech
These faggots all operate as drones, taking advantage of "tragedies" to always push and spin their agenda. Fucking sjws. Ted deserves to be removed from office, at minimum.

>>127753652
good luck with that misplaced sense of moral superiority

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>>127755041
Jesus christ. I knew portland was bad but for fucks sake these people are retarded.

faggit.com/r/Portland/comments/6e29e3/mayor_ted_wheeler_asks_feds_to_help_him_block/

>>127750235
Having recently visited Portland I can confirm this.

>>127748584
A Bernie supporter/anti-Trumper who also ranted about evil zionist kikes tried to infiltrate a Trump thing and got kicked out. Seems like he was more a mentally unstable drug addict than anything but that hasn't stopped everyone from labelling him a pro-Trump nazi.

>>127753545
You should toooooooooootally keep poking the sleeping lion.

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>>127753545
the fact we have them is why we havent needed them
pic related

>>127756121
>Alt-Right
>Trump supporter

pick one. Alt-Right supports Tulsi and Assad faggot, we've always hated KIKES like trump

>>127758139
>>127758370
Literally none of you will do anything once they ban free speech and ban guns (except for single shot rifles). Obama almost did it and Hillary was going to continue. They already neutered guns in California and guess what happened? Nothing.

In case you hadn't noticed, they've already been charging people with "civil rights intimidation" among other bullshit charges for "hate speech". One person for wearing a gorilla suit, the other for posting a flashing gif.

Where were you faggots when that happened? Nowhere to be seen. But now here you are on the internet crying about "muh guns" lmao.

Stereotypical loud mouth Americans. All bark and no bite.

>>127747868
We could spam his twitter if he has one

>>127758938
>actually identifying as alt right
You need to gas yourself.

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>>127747437
Anyone else notice this about the Columbia logo on his jacket? The Portland mayor is literally wearing a fucking swastika

>>127749601
The stabbing was wrong. The verbal harassment of invaders was not.

Yes it is you commie fuck

>>127750235
Oh god yes. Fucking tents on the sidewalk. Downtown is a shithole. This city went to hell when the California queers moved up here and shitty reality TV shows like Port Landia attracted yuppie cunts. Not to mention the recent influx of negros and illegals.

>>127747437


even WaPo has discredited this anti-liberty Leftnazi meme


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/04/21/no-gov-dean-there-is-no-hate-speech-exception-to-the-first-amendment/

>>127747437
>Portland mayor calls on the feds.....

What a useless bureaucrat, he doesn't have a spine to lead a city ordinance so he delegates that responsibility to higher authorities.

Liberals gonna liberal I guess

>>127760333
Witnessed. Always archive blogs renowned for bad journalism and clickbait.

https://archive.is/9ATTa <- washingtonpost.com article

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>>127760099
Checked and it always good to know I'm not alone here. It feels like I'm drowning in a sea of crazy most of the time. Do you hangout anywhere in particular to drink?

>>127747437

so does that mean we can get the Quran banned for hate speech against non-muslims?

>>127759784
>The verbal harassment of invaders was not.
I think there's a difference between free speech & verbally intimidating people on public transport.

>>127749601
Canada has some of worst free speech laws in north america. Keep your. counties shit laws away from my freedoms.

>>127759203
I called his offive plus tom wheeler has a twatter.

based aclu

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-30/theyre-coming-here-peddle-hate-speech-portland-mayor-asks-feds-pull-permit-pro-trump


no such thing as 'hate speech' exception to 1st amendment, libtards.

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>>127747437
>he's even wearing a Carl the Cuck Columbia jacket
wewlad

>>127747437
You laughed at us, now you will share our pain ameriburgers

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>>127753955
yeah I'll be there, leave a 4 of club card sticking out half way out of your pocket and I'll keep an eye out for you

>>127759005
not in my state and half the country is pissed about how cucked CA is which is one of the mane reasons to keep voting republican to stack up the supreme court with constitutionalists and fix that bull shit legally so it doesnt come to gun play

>>127751526
look at the dude with the beard's legs. jesus christ

>>127751941
Its illegal to say any thing against islam in Canada also.

>>127760359
It's on federal property

The Feds issued the permit

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>>127748487
Good to know you're on the side of fascists and Nazis... you know the only people who try to limit free speech and consider speech they don't like illegal

>>127747437

NEW SHOCKING VIDEO OF CHRIS CHRISTAIN ON A BUS THE DAY BEFORE!!11

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6VzqiukV2A

what a crazy coincidence

>>127764915
>direct link to CNN youtube
Use hooktube, it's like archive.is for youtube

https://hooktube.com/watch?v=P6VzqiukV2A

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>>127754184
>There is no hate speech. Only speech.

(((hate speech)))

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>>127748487
>psychopathic murderers
That'd be you, Shitskin. You've been brainwashed by the evil people killing brown people for their shit, and programmed to defend them. That happened because you are an idiot, a sub-human, low-IQ leech trying to live off the backs of the great white MEN who build The West.

The Supreme Court has ruled on the subject of "hate speech" numerous times. Each time, it has held that unequivocally, barring calls to immediate action (e.g. inciting a riot), all speech is free speech.

https://www.thoughtco.com/hate-speech-cases-721215

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>>127762583
Stay safe!

>>127747437
lol no you fucking idiots. Free speech does not mean you can say whatever you want to whoever you want. Walking up to a stranger and saying racist shit to them for no reason is obviously harassment.

>>127747437
>Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
What did James Madison mean by this?

>>127753545
>which is why dems keep passing around stories about how many more people right wing activists kill than terrorists

>Portland

Further defilement of cascadia. Go back to cuckifornia RRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>127748412

It's a nigger. I wouldn't be surprised if it had 4 kids by 12.

>>127748584

Curious how it plays exactly in line with the agenda they push, and how all the normies came to know about it immediately. Very curious. Curious that the witnesses are dead.

>>127750235

My own city is going this way as it gets more liberalized by commiefornian refugees. The mexico wall was a mistake. It should be built around cuckifornia to keep the shitlibs contained. There isn't a stoop downtown that doesn't have a hobo sleeping on it. Housing is unaffordable, the jobs are all McJobs, the food is more expensive, new boutique and artisan branded places opening, no one has money. Soros ads for "paid activism jobs" on every lightpost. Antifa vandalizing things with cuck messages. Trump pls purge! Help!

>>127752558

We have entire streets, not alleys--streets, that smell like BO and urine. I never knew what hobo smelled like until I moved to a city. It's rancid. They love to go in coffee shops and libraries, stink the place up, and be disgusting until they get rousted. Litter all over, needles all over. Needles in the water, on the sidewalks, in the grass. Soda cups from mcshits. Loudly vomiting hobos running around alleys at night screaming. Hobos going down the sidewalk of busy streets and even tourist areas, cursing and shouting like madmen. Trading drugs on corners. Once in a while they pass out or just fucking die. I've seen dead hobos. Walk past hobos pissing on the monuments. Niggers trying to rap on the bus. Every corner has a beggar. Hobos fighting each other, catcalling the women, cursing at people, throwing up or shitting themselves, falling on people. I had a hobo fall on me on the bus, I was sitting and he was walking by and just fell on me. Needle collection boxes were set up, but they throw it on the ground anyway. Emergency workers getting aids from it.

>>127767069
Criminal harassment is when words or conduct presents a creditable threat to a person or there family and has to target a specific person to be criminal. For example if I say all niggers need to die/go back to Africa it is not targeting a specific person so it is not considered illegal. Even if I was in a crowd of blacks when I said it.

>>127751045
>jeremy
anyone got those facebook posts of his?

im trying to redpill my normie brother

>>127747437

Welp time to show em why we have the second amendment.

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>>127759005
You assume we all register all of our guns... A true American has a few weapons not "on the books" so to speak.

>>127747437
but you see, in basic set theory, if x is an element of X, and Y is a subset of X, then all elements in Y are elements of X.

hate speed, regardless of what you think about it, is an element of the set of all free speech, and legislating it reduces liberty.

>>127769300
>true american
>can't even get his guns registered legally
>is a criminal
literally the opposite of a true American famalam
more like spic-tier antics

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>>127747437

YASSSS!!!!

Suck it up, goyim!

>>127755155
7.62x54r master race reporting in.

And it isn't a nugget, either...

>>127768348
I dream of getting a tranquilizer gun, loading the darts with 10mg of Narcan each, and going bum hunting at night.

Who's in?

>>127747437
Hate speech is a vague term with no clear definition and it means whatever it needs to at the time.

>>127748110
Indeed, the 2nd Amendment is the perfect thing for shooting alt-right fucks who want to turn America into a statist shithole. I'll even pop the pins from my mags and come down to help kill all you fuckers.

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>>127768392
here ya go

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>>127771409

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>>127768392

>>127747437

Is that guy a literal faggot? He looks it

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>>127768392
and this.... omg such a trump supporter : I

>>127747437
Probably a pedophile and on the payroll.

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>>127768392
and again.

>>127772006
he talks like a brainwashed leftist, is this yet another MKULTRA victim?

>>127748382
>muh PR
>if you kill your enemies, they win

>>127771409
Alt-right is a blanket term, it includes lolbertarians.

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>>127768392
More evidence the media is blatantly distorting the truth and using this tragedy to further their own politically motivated narrative you say? GET 'EM WHILE THEY'RE STILL SMOKING FOLKS.

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>>127771409

>>127747437
This is in response to the knife attacks that took place recently.

All I've heard is that three people "stood up" to a guy yelling insults at a Muslim woman, and he killed two of them and injured one.

Is that how it really went down? Or did they attack him and he defended himself? I can't seem to get a straight answer on what exactly fucking happened.

>>127759507
I have been wondering for years why no one else seems to notice this.

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>>127768392

>>127772609
don't forget the disaffected liberals, plenty of those in the alt-fag union

>>127749305
You need to go back to China, chink.

>>127755155
> $10 for 30 5.56 or .223
Where?

>>127747437
>our own Canadian cuck legislature

Fuck off burger faggot. Don't drag us into your gay shit. Just stop whining like a little girl and act like a man and deal with it.

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>>127747437
This thread is now aware that the entire first part of the novel Freedom's Sons is a military attack on Portland by White Nationalists/Separatists:

.
>At 7:30 sharp on the morning of November the first, an artillery shell from an eight-inch howitzer ripped through the air with a sound like tearing cardboard from the Washington side of the Columbia River. The shell crashed into the Union positions along the Oregon side, and vaporized a mobile home business office standing on a side street behind the scorched and crumpled ruins of the Portland Expo Center. The shell blasted dirt and shrapnel through the air, and drove a flying four-inch nail into the buttocks of United States Marine Corps lieutenant Abdul Malik Johnson.

>“Muthafukka!” screamed Johnson in pain and rage. He turned to his fellow African-American lying in a prone position beside him, Sergeant Alvin Pettibone, who was wearing the blue-black uniform of the Federal Anti-Terrorist Police Organization. “Racist muthafukkas done shot me in de ass!” he howled. Then he saw that Pettibone’s head was gone. “Fuck! I tole you not to look up when you gots incoming, fool!”

>The Washington side of the river began to flash and smoke, and thunder rolled across the water like a gigantic hollow drumroll as the rest of the Nationalist guns and rocket launchers opened up. Great geysers of concrete, asphalt, brick and wood leaped into the air all along Marine Drive, and projectiles plowed craters into the golf courses and parks where the Union artillery was dug in. The battle for Portland had begun.

.
>Freedom's Sons, by Harold Covington
http://www.thechristianidentityforum.net/downloads/Freedoms-Sons.pdf

.
It's the 5th and last in a series of novels dealing with the fight for a white ethno-state in the American Northwest.

http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Harold_Covington#Northwest_Quintet

.
>First book in the series:
https://theendofzion.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/HillofRavens.pdf

>>127747437
So don't go to portland lol

>>127759005
You assume that people in callifornia follow those cucked laws.

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>>127773318
>mfw it's like /pol/ collectively wrote a novel

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>>127750235
>The free speech rally is the same weekend as fleet week and the Rose parade and this place is a powderkeg.

Also gonna be the same day as the new Ariana Grande et al. concert for the victims in Manchester. Sunday (June 4) is going to be very interesting.

>>127747437
Somebody should tell him that hate forms in the listeners head not in the speakers mouth.

I have no crystal ball and can not predict the future my words will bring. Sometimes telling that you are as smart as sheep is compliment and sometimes it is hate speech. Depends on the receiver.
Words can not be banned if we wish to keep language and capability of abstract thought as species.

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>>127774035

>>127753545
I've used mine faggot

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>>127754408

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>>127756121
bump

>>127747437
Is it time to file a law suit against the city of Portland yet?

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>>127747437
>>127747437
How could anyone vote for such a person?

Even in Portland is beyond me

I can't believe this guy holds office with such a low opinion of the first amendment.

At first I was done supporting these free speech rallies but it is duty to not only support them but to attend them if possible in the face of tyrants like this who wish to stop them

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>>127772250
Im not suggesting anything, but these two look like they do a little adult horse play. Maybe under a geodesic dome

>>127747437
what a faggot

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>>127771409
>implying it isn't already a statist shithole
>being Canadian and having guns

>>127772006
>>127772153
>>127772378
>>127772704
>>127772845
thanks guys.
redpill sucessfully administered

Leaf Crusade NOW

>>127767069
And they have the right to sue you for damages.

>>127771409
Dohoho, go back to sucking Wang Chuns cock and being forced to use someones "proper pronouns" in your socialist hell hole.

>>127772781
>Guy yells stuff at muslim
>White knight cucks intervene, get physical with guy
>Get stabbed

That's how it went down.

>>127747437


He's just a cuckhold of a city mayor. Fuck him.

He has no say on what is and isn't constitutional.

>>127778555
Checked

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Same city.

>>127747437
Fuck this faggot nigger loving pansy ass right in his homosexual stretched out asshole with a severed horse cock. Fuck em.

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Anyone else see the same?

>>127747437
>"Hey guys, I found a way around the protections afforded b6y the first ammendment! Just call everything we don't like 'Hate Speech'... BOOM!!! no more freedom of speech!"

These "anti-Hate-Speech" people are fucking retarded.

>>127781035
I suppose that NEXT, they will say the right to trial by jury is somehow killing babies, and puppies.