CIA, Churchill and modern neocons fucked up the natural flow

I don't know enough about the history to say, but interesting theory.

>>127640941
The reason I mentioned Churchill by the way was because he worked with the CIA to overthrow the king of Iran in favour of an Islamic movement because of British oil interests.
Although it was mostly British intelligence that was involved.

I would have to say I do agree Islam has not had anytime to progress on its own due to the fact of the british empire (rothschild n co) wining and dining certain tribes and introducing the absurdity of monarchies in the middle east

>>127640709
>Do you agree?
Yes.
But we've probably reached a point of no return at this point.

>>127640709
>the natural flow of Islamic culture towards secularism.
Like Turkey?
>Islamic societies were going through a secular intellectual revolution before globalists intervened
No lol

>>127640709
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxGYLk92edY

The real redpill is realizing that sharia, and #whitesharia are the plan of (((them))). Read up on dominionist christianty. Fucking batshit hebrew laws will be shoved down all our throats.

>>127641911
I find it incredible they can even reach levels of secularism with a holy book that talks about killing, terrorizing and taxing the shit out of non-muslims.

thankfully most muslims either don't read that shit or do mental gymnastics to avoid it. Not like it's gonna make Islam a religion of peace or something.

>>127642347
>a holy book that talks about killing, terrorizing
So does the Bible to be honest. It's just degrees of violence.
>taxing
Only to make up for the charity tax Muslims have to pay

>>127641490
>introducing
their only historical form of governance was monarchies apart from a minor detour in the dissolution of the ottoman empire

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>>127640709

Yeah, they're exactly like us culturally, politically and socially. If America hadn't interfered in the wider region politically and militarily over the years the whole region would be a secular and democratic utopia of progressive liberalism and equality for all.

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I've never seen anyone on POL who knows this particular redpill, but it's true. Liberal Islam wasn't conducive to the oil market that the west wanted to establish. The seat responded by installing a series of right wing dictators, who just happened to be severely theocratic.

If you don't know this, you don't know anything about the middle east. Part of what makes /pol such a joke

The Islamic world never had a meaningful trend toward secularism. Even in places like Turkey it was only enforced at the business end of a shotgun. The idea that MENA would have all been Voltaire reading secularists developing their own social contract if only it weren't for the meddling americans and Saudis and Israelis is pure historical revisionism.

>>127643776
corroborate your claims
chicken.jpg

>>127640709
We hate muslims because Jews radicalized them into what they are today, in order to get western support for Israel and vilifying all muslims in the process. I will gladly side with a Muslim against the kikes, any day

>>127643606
>Yeah, they're exactly like us culturally, politically and socially
Nobody is saying that.
>the whole region would be a secular and democratic utopia of progressive liberalism and equality for all.
Reductio ad absurdum.
Im not saying they would be a progressive utopia but if you look in the modern history of the region you could see they were many secualr societies that refused to comply to foreign corporate interests and were swiftly overthrown by a fiercely Islamic regime.
You also have to acoount for the fact that Islam is a younger religion than Christianity and was only starting to go through a social reformation. People there actually liked Western culture before.

>>127640709
Not really the only way you can make Muslims secular is through heaven handed a thei in and nationalism. Look at Albania before 1939 and after 1992. Literally went from 80% Muslims to less the 5% practisming muslims.

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>>127643776

>liberal Islam
>mfw

I read a entire chapter of the Koran recently, to see for myself what the hype was about. Entirely full of verses stating that disbelievers will burn in the hell fire, warning Muslims not to take disbelievers as friends, outright saying to kill disbelievers and that those who fight in the cause of the religion get greatly rewarded in paradise.

It's a lovely book, perfectly suitable for modern secular society. Truly liberal.

>>127644348
Atheicism*

>>127640709
Drawing borders without regards to ethnicities and cultures was indeed a mistake. Multiculturalism always results in disaster.

The strange thing is, liberals will agree with the first sentence, but completely blank out on the second. The ME is a shithouse because of the multucultural borders that were drawn. But somehow multiculturalism is supposed to be a good thing because muh tacos 'n sushi.

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but then they'd end up decadent and weak and that alone would cause a massive right wing revival just like we see in the West today. Let's not say that homo marriage, degeneracy and the breakdown of the fucking family is some great achievement that all other cultures to strive towards. There is a middle ground.

>>127641333
How was an islamic movement in favour of British oil interests?

>>127644349
Not all that different from the bible

>>127643776

This is straight up complete fucking horseshit. It's a leftist conspiracy theory basically to say muslims dindu nuffin and all the problems were because of the CIA

The CIA just used opinions already present in the region to their advantage

The US wanted the Sha of Iran to stay in power. They didn't want the Islamic revolution.

Look at the partition of India. The muslims chimped out and created Pakistan without any prodding from the CIA

The arab Israeli wars weren't conductive to the ZOGs intentions. The Lebanese civil war hurt their narrative.

Face it, muslims always have been shit. It's caused by massive inbreeding


It's the equivalent to the lie

>if those evil whites hadn't come to Africa and built cities and roads and infrastructure then Africa would be a utopia right now and alll of Africa's problems are do to colonialism and not because the people there are shit at running countries

>>127644597
Irans PM was killed by CIA/Britfags and replaced by a puppet king whose suppression of communist and islamists lead to his eventual overthrown and obviously the commies/liberals got curbstomped and Islamist hijacked the revolution. Fast forward 37 years and you have current day Iran.

>>127644597
It promised to pay the insane oil fees the king refused to in exchange for help overthrowing the monarchy.
Eventually that backfired too.

>>127644674

*Old Testament

Modern Christianity is built upon the New Testament and the teachings of a hippy pacifist.

Islam is built on the example of a warlord who beheaded people, took slaves, and led armies against non Muslims.

Also, the Koran is supposed to be the direct word of God himself. Which makes the violent passages all the more disturbing.

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>>127644674

Bullshit. In the Bible Jesus orders you not to kill sinners "he who is without sin cast the first stone"

The new covenant undoes much of the shit in the Torah

You're speaking out of your ass and clearly haven't read the Torah New Testament Quran or hadiths

They're not the same

Also the NT doesn't have a built in way to deal with contradictions. It's up for interpretation

Meanwhile the Quran does. It has the process of abrogation. Meaning the latest command is the one you follow. This is why "liberal" muslims constantly lose theological debates to conservative ones. There is no doubt what the commands are. The early parts of the Quran aren't as violent but the later parts (meaning the commands to follow) are where the bloody shit comes in


Also pic related. Where does Jesus order the rape of non Christians

>>127644674
>Not all that different from the bible

Come on mate, you know that's not true. Even taking the old testament you are not going to find shit like that.

Anyway, Christ gave the ner law, to love everyone. I don't think it's similar to the Koran.

>>127641333

>Be British
>Overthrow a good, secular country that has nothing to do with you into wahabbism for 'british interests'
>Withdraw from british colonies for 'british interests'
>Fight the one man who has respected your culture alongside his and wanted to ally with your reject colony who despises your monarchy
>bring inbred subhuman goatfuckers from the middle east and pakistan to 'diversify' the British gene pool for 'british interests'
>cue terror attack every week or so from your peace loving new brits
>now bound to become a 3rd world islamic shithole

you eternal Anglo cunts deserved it

>>127640709
Yes I agree, only Baath can save the Middle-East now

>>127640709
No, we were going to have a backlash anyway, all those western things were only done by about 2% of the country which were the elite. Everyone else was getting angry at it. Shah was seen as a puppet of western imperialism, and Mossagdeh was far too liberal for most of the population. That is why it was so easy to cause unrest, the Clerics called for him to be removed because of his liberalisation and many people responded to it.

>>127641911
Fucking this. This is why we need to destroy the CIA NOW.

>>127645361

B-b-b-b-ut my liberal arts professor told me that Iran was a Westernised liberal utopia until America fucked it up?

>>127645103
>Old Testament
There's a reason it's part of the Bible.
It's considered Gods law too.

>>127645361
>t. Young Iranian brainwashed by modern regime
Also
>puppet of western imperialism
>resisted Western theft
Pick one proxynigger

>>127645816

Loosely.

Were you at all raised on Christianity or are you just another trying to drawn false equivalences between Christiantity and Islam in order to stifle the discussion about the violence in the Koran and its widespread, and very troubling, literal interpretation and practice around the world?

I no longer believe in God, but these false equivalences that people try and make when this topic comes up is so transparent.

>>127640941
does anybody on pol know about anything?

>>127643776
BRERRAAAPPshlpt

>>127645977

You're literally arrogant enough to lecture an Iranian on the history of his own country and dismiss his perspective - as an outsider from another country.

Wew.

>>127640709
>Progressivism
>Good

Die marxist scum.

>>127646383
You must be new here. Of course they don't know jack shit.

Interesting....i always feel bad seeing the old pictures of Iran and Afghanistan back in the day, seriously seeing how afghanistan is today, finding out that 50 years ago the place was a modern, progressive emerging naition with qt 3.14s walking the streets in skirts and tight fitting sweaters, going to college

>>127640709
>CIA, Churchill and modern neocons fucked up the natural flow of Islamic culture towards secularism.
>Islam was becoming and was, for quite some time, a more progressive religion that was not enforced by the state in the Middle East. Islamic societies were going through a secular intellectual revolution before globalists intervened and eventually helped enforce wahabism for their own ends.
>Do you agree?
Yes, agree and add:
its the israhell, that is ruling US, who is not interested in no peace or secularism in greater israhell

>>127640709
Fuck it, it will happen eventually

>>127640709
Islam no longer being all colonized by civilization is what turned them back into savages

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I fell asleep. Anyone know happened with that YouTube livestream of the woman tied up and gagged with the timer on her?

>>127643145
Hmmm would you not agree that pre 20th century the middle east was predominantly tribal hence having individual leaders I am aware Islam has had Kings/sultans in the past but no doubt it could be debated maybe the definition of a King in western world could be different from rest back then

>>127646579
>an iranian
Thats where you're wrong

>>127644099
This is why America is the last good stronghold, it's because you guys are a christian nation

>>127648119

Because you said so?

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>>127640709
>Islam was becoming and was, for quite some time, a more progressive religion
Wrong all the way

" it is important to consider the nature of the Arab Socialist Baath Party and its rule in Iraq, which lasted from 1968 until 2003."
" First of all, the Baath Party was a Pan-Arab socialist party that sought to unite the entire Arab world under Baathist rule."
" When Saddam came to power in 1979, he led a Stalinesque purge to consolidate his control over the Iraqi Baath Party and Iraq."
" In the run-up to the Gulf War, Saddam attempted to play the Pan-Arab card to rally the Arab world behind him, and he failed miserably. In fact, many Arab countries joined the U.S.-led coalition against Iraq."
https://www.stratfor.com/weekly/how-baath-party-influences-islamic-state

" Captured documents published by Der Spiegel last year give some idea of the role of ex-Baathist regime men in setting up and running IS in a highly structured and organised way, with much emphasis on intelligence and security."
" The Baathist legacy at the core of IS"
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-35695648