Daily Climate Change Debate Thread

>asking Putin's Puppets about climate change

by the way

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction

The problem is not serious at all. In fact, there is no problem. If your time-lapse gif covered the last 20,000 years it would be much more entertaining.

If it did cover the last 20,000 years we could watch the glaciers retreat from as far south as Kentucky, watch the Bering Land Bridge disappear, see the British Isles for as the English Channel is created, and watch the gulf shoreline of Florida retreat 140 miles as global sea levels rise nearly 400 feet.

All that shit already happened, and no one caused it. Global temperatures have been constantly rising (except for a few pauses here and there) for the last 20,000 years. And they will eventually fall again.

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Not a problem at all.

>>127571420
Round up all the owners and heads of the Fossil Fuel industry and nuke them. The bullshit anti-science denialist campaign would come to a sudden and glowing end and also the resulting nuclear winter should offset the temperature increase for a couple of decades.

>>127571913
Looks like its bad for brown people, so what's the problem? Oh browns aren't people.

>>127571913
post the map that shows crop yields without a beneficial carbon fertilisation process

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>>127571420
Find another planet, we are going to be 9.6 billion people until 2050, almost 12 billion in 2100, if we don't leave until 2100, we are going to die here, alone, surrounded by blacks and chinks. So yea, better leave fast or we're fucked.

If they are so concerned why do they use icebreakes?

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>>127571913
>not a problem
>not realizing that our cucked govt.s will take in all the "starving refugees from the third world"

>>127571825
no one in the world is disputing that glaciers/ice sheets have melted, that there have been warming and cooling trends and major changes in climate in the past, long before human beings existed.

But what argument are you trying to make in pointing this out? That humans can't be responsible for the current climate change?

>>127571965
I don understand why people always blow off any and all data contradictory to climate change as a product of "muh big oil and fossil fuels"
>>127572233
We need a Plague or major war to hit the third world FAST, or better yet, have the chinks go all in on colonizing Africa, take out the nogs

>>127571420
If its a problem, shut down coal plants and start nuclear.

If its a hoax, dont do what I just said.

Until the gov. takes real action I'll assume its bullshit

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>>127572233
but you don't expect anyone to take a graph that doesn't even have a scaled y-axis seriously, do you?

Here is an ensemble of quantitative 2000 year reconstructions

>>127571913

>massive third world migration caused by whitey
>christians will uber cuck because poor children of gawd cant die of starvstion
>Definitely not a problem!

>>127571420
we are past the point of unavoidable annihilation

options now are:
-use only renewable energy which would cause global market crash and total destruction
-continue on, pretending things are okay, and hope we're wrong about the repercussions

no point in worrying about it anymore

>>127572783
Nignogs refusing to farm is caused by whitey. Got it.

>>127572429
Because that's literally what happened. Exxon was one of the first groups to start throwing serious fucking money at climate change research way back in the 1970s purely so they knew what the arguments were going to be and could come up with convincing lies against them. They admitted to doing this last year.

>>127573292
>>127572271
You know our (((govt.s))) will blame climate change and then blame "privileged whites" for said climate change

>>127573525
But that doesn't make EVERY claim that contradicts climate change false or in valid
>>127571825
This for example is dismissed entirely by someone saying "that was PROBABLY researched by big oil"
I'm not a flat out denier of climate change, however I would like to be ABLE to question it without being called a denier or fossil fuel shill

Tbh, I wish we'd all get into nuclear power, its relatively cleaner and more efficient

The steps should be to reveal to the public the multinational magnetosphere manipulation projects so that they understand what's going on.

And then also preemptively gas the lying kikes.

>>127573854
can you tell us an example of a claim that contradicts climate change that you feel is valid?

>>127572290
We're freaking out over accelerating the end of this process by a small amount. We should be putting out energy into finding ways to capitalize on the inevitable future instead of spending vast resources trying to fight a phenomenon we don't really understand.

>>127572290
Probably that humans aren't the sole contributor to the phenomenon and/or it would happen regardless of human presence.

Calling AGW "Climate Change" is disingenuous at the very best because all but the dimmest of light bulbs would agree that the climate of Earth is dynamic in nature. Of course it's changing, it's always changing.

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>>127571420
>Collapsing foodchains, causing even more famines in shitskin countries, triggering hundreds of millions of niggers to flee to westerrn countries is not a problem.

>>127571420
Big poluting countries like China and some Arab countries need to be punished so hard that poluting becomes less profitable then not poluting

It doesnt help to keep pushing climate change policies because the west is not a polutor anymore

Basically, telling the US to be less poluting while not giving China or opec countries shit is like telling one kid not to pee in the pool while ignoring the 5 fully grown adults blasting diahrea in the poolwater

>>127573525
Most climate deniers these days actually just look at all the failed predictions of alarmists and dismiss it as a fever dream of some fuckin hippie communist. The truth is closer to that than big oil spinning lies. This isn't the 70's anymore.

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>>127571420
It will benefit white people. Everyone else can get fucked.

>>127571420

The elite are deathly afraid that the antarctic perimeter of flat earth oceans will melt, thus revealing a passage through antarctica to other continents, thus smashing for the last time the ball model (if it's not destroyed enough already).

This is the only cause of the elite angst about so called "warming".

>>127574003
economics
1st world stop burning -> oil price drops -> 3rd world burns more or worse,
1st world buys oil from 3rd world instead of drilling -> 3rd world invests more in oil production

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>>127574003
Well, I think one thing that's overlooked is the midevial warming period and the little ice age that soon followed. There's evidence from the 11th century I believe that grapes were grown in England, meaning that temperature at least as far north as England were temperate enough to grow grapes.
Then you factor in the little ice age which lasted between 1400s- late 1800s, whichepuld mean through out the 19-20th centuries the earth has been "warming up"

I guess my point is that I think the Earth's natural climate changes are ignored, I don't deny that humans have an impact on their environment, but I believe the Earth's natural climate changes are more significant

>>127571420
Drill baby drill

>>127574003
We've already passed every 'point of no return' atmospheric carbon concentration that's been jammed into the positive feedback loop models. If there is a positive feedback loop we're literally in a doomsday scenario and we should prepare for the end of the world. If that model is bullshit we should continue as normal.

How are climate scientists behaving?

>>127574146
just build a wall and turn sardinia into a prison island.

>>127574139
>humans aren't the sole contributor
but you don't have to go back 20,000 i n the past to demonstrate that. Climatologists have been saying this for many decades now

>it would happen regardless of human presence
there is nothing in that argument that would lead you to that conclusion. And that's also contradicted by the fact that there is currently no other forcing besides direct anthropogenic GHG emissions that could explain the rise in temperature

>Of course it's changing, it's always changing
Yes, everyone is already agreed to this, why do you keep pointing out things that aren't in dispute?

>Calling it "Climate Change" is disingenuous
Why is calling a change in climate "climate change" disingenuous? And please note that "global warming" and "climate change" are not interchangeable terms

>>127574279
What am I looking at here?

>>127571420
what are you talking about? the gif clearly shows it just grows back

>>127574219
>>127574589
This
I remember in first grade they told us Virginia Beach would be under water in a decade or so, now 15 years later, my uncle is still living a mile from the beach just as he was 15 years ago

>>127574646
trade routes when the northern icecap melts. It will also make it possible to unify america Russia and Europe.

why dont we just freeze some water?

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>>127574884
That is fucking sick
If we can uncuck our govts. By that time, I'll be diamonds

>>127574621
>Why is calling a change in climate "climate change" disingenuous?
Stop playing stupid.

Climate change is a natural phenomenon, and there's nothing you can do to stop it. No, some bullshit carbon taxes on the USA won't do jack shit.

In fact, I hope it keeps happening. The earth right now is actually much colder than it's traditionally been throughout the eons. For most of earth's history, there aren't even any ice caps at a poles, for example. We're in a "cold period" right now. I hope it keeps warming up, and then the white man can colonize siberia and antarctica

>>127574797
The modeling in my opinion as a professional scientist is absolute bullshit. However, there are some reasonable takeaways, like how we could potentially see unusually large sea level rises along the east coast given the stoppage of the gulf stream.

>>127575106
>no ice caps at poles for most of history
Can I have a source on that? I'm very intrigued

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>>127574512
have you ever tried to figure out what climatologists say about the MWP and the little ice age?

Far from ignoring it, they have been studying this and publishing research for several decades now. The case is far from closed but that they have found is that these times are associated with high- and low-points in sulfur-rich explosive volcanic activity, and this explanation breaks down completely when you try to apply it to the current warming trends.

As for grapes in Northern England - sure parts of Northern Europe and Greenland were quite mild, but we both know that the world consists of more than those places. When paleoclimatologists looked at other geographic areas during this time, they found severe drought conditions (sometimes called a "mega-drought) in large parts of North America and East Asia.

>>127575061
He's got to justify slurping government grants to study ice cores even though 'the science is settled'. This whole thing is a racket that's only going to get more obvious as the decades go by.

So I don't see us going back in our demand for technology, and attempting to curb population for the end of less output of byproducts has left us open for replacement.

There's no stopping this.
Just prepare.

>>127574589
>If there is a positive feedback loop we're literally in a doomsday scenario
hate to break it to you, but positive feedbacks definitely exist and there are more than one (ice-albedo, ocean outgassing, pedogenic carbon release, talik formation, Anti-CLAW hypothesis,...)

But you still have to make the connection of how this dooms us all to total disaster

>>127575061
>climate is changing
>let's call it "climate change"

at what point does the stupidity come in?

>>127572233
Like this map shows humans has experinced climate change before. And yes of course it's serious. But the leeches only want to tax people more. They don't give a shit anyway whether it's real or fake. Also remember it Won't happen over night like the alarmist will tell you.

>>127575273
And what the fuck does precipitation in america and east Asia have to do with temperatures in England? If your point is that time period wasn't heaven on earth, then well done bud. But temperatures and precipitation aren't the same goddamn thing.

>muh ice is melting
>send money pls

1 degree over 2000 years

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>>127575234
I don't have a source off the top of my head, but it's easy to find info on this. I know that dinosaurs used to live in lush temperate forests in antarctica, even though it was still in roughly the same position as today.

FEMA and the NFIP (National Flood insurance program) put out flood maps which show potential flood hazard areas, usually shown as 100 year (high risk) and 500 year (low risk) zones.
So basically, NFIP shows areas of expected flooding based on 100-500 year intervals.
I have always thought it funny that FEMA is basically saying "Expect massive flooding in these areas, in many cases a mile away from main waterway channels." and NASA has recently been saying "OMG look at this ice melting we are all gonna flood, this has never happened before!!"
So which federal agency should we defund? They obviously can't both be right.
https://msc.fema.gov/portal

>>127575106
If you think it's a good idea to catapult atmospheric chemistry and the planetary climate back by millions and millions of years, then you're going down a path of absolute folly.

There are examples in the geologic record of things of this magnitude and speed happening and the outcomes were not pretty.

>>127575608
You weren't alive when it was global cooling and we had to pump sulfur particles into the atmosphere RIGHT NOW or else we'd all die?

>>127575273
I'm aware the ice age was brought on by volcanic activity, but that being the case if we are now LEAVING this ice age we should be experiencing gradual warming in our temperatures
>pic
That's another problem I have with these scientists, their models. Just how accurate are these models? As I said earlier, they predicted VA beach would be under water according to their models, of course that never happened.
And I'm very skeptical of models they make that are supposed to portray the weather patterns from hundreds of years ago, especially in America where the data on weather has only been recorded for roughly 200 years

>>127571655
overbobulation is a mythz

>>127571420

The climate change denying countries will be brought to their knees.
Trump voters will stay poor and addicted to prescription meds.

The rise of the ecological Reich will be kinder to the loyal as world markets ensure the rise of renewable energy

>>127575498
Positive feedback loops are very rare in nature but you've invented a whole batch of them. Didn't know the cognitive dissonance had reached this level.

>>127575608
The climate changes every day, yesterday it was 66 degrees today it's 63 degrees, that is climate change

>>127575868
temperature and precipitation are parts of the climate, which is the subject under discussion. So after telling me why we can't describe a changing climate as "climate change", you can explain to me why major aspects of the climate shouldn't be part of a discussion about the climate.

>>127575907
how is this a response to what I said?

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>>127574057
greenhouse gas mechanism is easy to understand. The greenhouse gas is like a ceiling that lets in sun and traps heat.

>>127572565

Why trust the government with ecology? Governments have messed up ecosystems and caused disasters plenty of times before.

>>127575883
Ehh Russian permafrost is melting, and its a pretty big issue thanks to all the methane it has trapped in it.
Also a whole bunch of old as fuck diseases thawing and starting to spread from the permafrost.

If a decent percentage of the permafrost melts, we are kinda super fucked.

>>127574139
>Of course it's changing, it's always changing.

That's not what climate change means.

>>127576176
Why aren't you concerned about any other greenhouse gas then?

>>127576071
Nope, that's weather.

>>127576158
Because you have to take a proper historical perspective in order to understand how the weather, changing as it might be, is being used as a front for a massive scam.

Check out the Club of Rome, and watch the funny documentary, "Smartest Guys in the Room" to understand the nature of the criminal mind and of financial derivatives that are behind the climate change hoax.

>>127575904
1) the current projection if we keep the status quo isn't pretty. I'd rather have a world catastrophe than let the white race die out and the world get taken over by shitskins
2) I don't believe there's anything we can do about global warming. Even if you do think mankind's industrialization is having a significant impact, none of the solutions are doing or would do jack fucking shit.

>>127575992
Overpopulation is a myth, but mis-allocating resources to non-essential things can make us unable to support increasingly large populations.

The world can handle more people, but our resources need to be used for that purpose

>>127573292

The idea is climate change causes famine or brings plagues and then they have to move around saying they're moving because they don't like getting bombed by super powers whilst local death cults cut their heads off.

>>127576299
People are concerned about other greenhouse gasses, its just that CO2 is by far the worst at the moment.
If anything other greenhouse gasses like methane are far worse than CO2 as instead of having a linear concentration-energy absorption it becomes more of a geometric one.

>>127576429
Add to that. If we really thought, say, carbon dioxide were the the biggest problem in the world, would we seek to profit off the control of energy, or would we seek to profit off the development of technologies to simply react it away?

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>>127576280
>diseases thawing out
I have an Idea, why not ship a fuck ton of this permafrost over to Africa? Take a plane and drop it from the sky or something? I think I may have just solved over population...

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>>127575915
but we know that the current rise in temperature has nothing to do with the little ice age ending because we can calculate radiative effects of both the natural and anthropogenic forcings and what impact they have on the Earth's energy budget - there just is no way around the fact that you can't explain modern temperature trends without taking direct anthropogenic GHG emissions into account

Humans don't cause it but they have accelerated it. This is only a problem if you are interested in long term social strategies. Warming trends are accelerated by greenhouse gasses but the numbers are so small as to seem significant to most people. A metaphor for it would be if a jets speed were increased by a minute amount thus creating the potential for collision with another jet. The human element introduces chaotic uncertainty into climate prediction models. This really only concerns the elite as it makes speculation a lot harder to do.

>>127576299
probably because criticizing methane is racis or whatever, I didn't make the choice

>>127576596
*seem insignificant

>>127571420
Who gives a fuck and nothing

>>127571913
>Africa
>-25%
>0 - 0*25% = 0
I don't see the problem

>>127576596
>makes speculation a lot harder to do.
OY VEY IF YOU WANT TO KEEP YOUR PENSION WE NEED TO ASSUME A CONSTANT 7% GROWTH RATE

BUT ALSO BET ON VOLATILITY FUCKING GOYS ALWAYS MESSING THINGS UP

>>127576519
Funny because I've never seen anyone suggest trying to control water concentrations.

>>127576252
Because corporations don't give a flying fuck about anything other than the next quarter's results. Governments can (NB: can, not necessarily do) take longer-term views.

>>127576472
We're already killing tons of species as is. With more people on earth and higher standard of living it's only going to get worse.

>>127576051
I didn't invent those, if you would bother to take a look at the referee journal literature you would have come across all of those I mentioned. They've been known about for decades now and they're based on very simple physics.

If you think there are major scientific problems with them, feel free to point them out instead of trying to psychoanalyze me over the internet

>>127576472
>>127576472
>mis-allocating resources to non-essential things can make us unable to support increasingly large populations.

ie. live in mudhuts so more shitskins can feed on worms

>>127575608
Your post. Temperature changes induced by human industrial and agricultural activities is an extremely limited subset of temperature changes which itself is a very restricted subset of any climate change. Your pretending not to see this (calling the subset of a subset of a thing only by the name of the entire thing) being very odd is playing stupid, and expecting it to work in your favor is being as well.
The naming is imprecise, unpractical and politically motivated. It's as sensible as campaigning to refer to red delicious apples only as fruits. Complete nonsense.
>>127575498
They sure aren't dominant, or we'd have gone the way of Venus during the first of many warm periods in our planet's history.

>>127576683
Precisely they want to convince us that their map is in fact the territory. Sad

>>127576071
look up the definition of climate. Climate is usually defined as the 30-year mean of all meteorological phenomena.

So no, climate does not change everyday.

>>127574219

Not an argument.

Picking the worst examples of scare mongering as an 'argument' against climate change just makes everyone go 'WTF? I've never even heard of the people who said that.'

>>127575165
I agree with this. The world is too complex to model things like that. It's pretty cool they can at least predict the next 14 days with somewhat of an accuracy. There are too many variables for the world.

>>127571420
If we set off strategically placed nuclear explosions around the world it will push the warm molicules out into space and colder ones will replace the vacuum.

>>127576890
Sounds like a final solution to me

Will global warming make Russia great again?

>>127576706
We kind of need water to a much greater extent than co2 in the atmosphere.
And im pretty sure water (in the form of clouds) is beneficial as it's a white surface to reflect off, similar to how it is theorized that part of the reason ice ages last for so long is in part due to the ice reflecting a large portion of the solar energy that would otherwise be absorbed by the ground.

>>127576390
to put climate change into the context of the Club of Rome and all this paranoid garbage would simply be an error, since the science of it pre-dates all of that by a century. Or do you think John Tyndall, Svante Arrhenius and Guy Stewart Callendar were all retroactively payed by the Club of Rome?

>>127576713

Corporations' bosses can be sued by share holders if they don't go for as much profit as they legally can.

If corporations care, their hands are tied unless goverments make laws to limit what they can do ecologically, so you do have a good point there.

>>127576112
He said England used to be warm. You retorted with NA and east Asia seeing little rain. I asked you, what does that have to do with England having been warm? How is that in any way relevant to his post?

>how serious is the problem
Doesn't matter, the sun isn't exactly within humanities control. Anthropogenic climate change is bullshit

>>127576429
what can I say to that expect that I care about human civilization and I don't want it destroyed.

>>127577106
And John Malthus. Look up Henry Kissinger's NSSM 2000. All of these are sensible propositions, but abused by the power establishment as means to control the serf class.

>>127577043
Not really, it's currently crippling the industry sections of your country as the melting permafrost causing buildings to collapse due to losing foundations.
When the permafrost melts like 80% of your country will turn into barely-inhabitable swampland and you will need to re-build basically every community outside of the Moscow/"nearby" cities area.

If you re-built on the swamps, maybe. You guys seem to have some pretty insane bug swarms in your current swamps, and i'm not exactly up to date on the economic value of swampland and it's profitable uses.

On the bright side it wont be as cold, but it will be muddy and damp all the time.

>>127577388
Their pete bogs are a potentially yuge energy source. I'm not sure what the environmental impacts would be, but they're so big that you could probably just start basically mining it and using the profit to fund studies about where to set sensible limits.

>>127576804
so your quarrel is mostly based on the argument that human influence is "extremely limited". In reality however, anthropogenic emissions of non-condensing GHGs is actually the prime driver of climate on earth since the 1980s, when temperature trends started to diverge from total solar irradiance.

I'm "not seeing it" because it's quite simply incorrect.

Lastly, if you think "climate change" is imprecise, what term do you propose to accurately reflect what is going on?

>>127577043

If you mean the frozen North melting and becoming good for farming, that's a possibility.

Problems with that include;

Changing clime in other parts of Russia bringing plagues like locusts,

Climate change doesn't happen evenly, it stirrs everything up and makes weather more unpredictable,

Scientists and ecologists think there's a lot of methane stored in the frozen ground which would be released and accelerate climate change more

>>127575392
>and attempting to curb population for the end of less output of byproducts has left us open for replacement.
we did this totally wrong

>>127577206
because it's a very common argument that the MWP was a mild and prosperous time for England/Northern Europe/Greenland. So to preemptively counter that notion I brought up mega-droughts in North America and East Asia.

>>127577537
My quarrel, as you call it, is you referring to a red delicious apple only as a fruit and insisting everyone else do so as well.

>>127577367
I'm always baffled how people talk about measures to combat climate change as if we're all living in a totalitarian dictatorship, run by climate scientists.

The contrast to what is going on in the real world could not be greater - because in reality, governments have only started to take notice in the 1990s (even though this was known as far back as 1896) and they have yet to come up with more than verbal commitments.

>>127577532
>Their pete bogs are a potentially yuge energy source

Isn't Russia's economy already mostly based around energy exportation, despite the fact their largest buyers have stated that they are actively looking for alternatives to Russian energy due to their political stances on the EU ?

Combined with the fact all the large countries are currently looking for alternatives to carbon-based energy sourcing, im not sure how well it would turn out.

There will always be a solid market for cheap energy, but its not one i can see bringing a country into a "golden age" by modern standards at least.

>>127576835
Nah this post used to be a thing until Al Gore made his movie and got all of his lies into the zeitgeist. There have been several rounds of extreme weather movies made at the same time to bolster those fears. Back in the early days script writers had to make up some kind of implausible or improbable event that was just a thin veil for the 'science' which is settled. Shills like Bill Nye are just the latest chapter in a decades long propaganda campaign. These days everyone 'knows' these things just like they 'know' the US won WW2.

Maybe things are different over in bong land but I'm reasonably sure you'll get jailed for denying the holy science.

>>127577876
I rest my case. Unless you want to say "anthropogenically induced change in the energy balance of the planet, causing non-linear responses over widely different timescales on continents and oceans" every time, then "climate change" is a perfectly fine term to use

>>127577762
You would make a lot more sense if you'd responded to the arguments he made instead of those he did not.

>>127577050
Yeah but reducing global water concentrations by 200 ppm or whatever it would take isn't likely to affect localized events like clouds. I just find it amusing that the whole debate centers around a trace gas that we've based our civilization on.

>>127571420
1) ground all non-essential aircraft
2) stop all non-essential (leisure) shipping
3) impose steep transport tariffs on commercial shipping
4) impose steeper tariffs on rail transport
5) impose even steeper tariffs on freight transport by truck

There. Now you guys figure out how to run all the isolated economies without these things and we'll be fine. ...for certain values of 'fine.'

>>127578061
Yeah, you're definitely right. I was just saying that if we want to consider alternative energy sources, there are many alternatives.

We used to have vehicles that ran on wood gas. This might be as interesting a potential area of investigation, whether it's vehicles or just household or community generators, for the valuable decentralization of the power grid. Little wood gas stoves are already profitable among the prepper crowd. If Canada has a tariff on its cheap lumber, maybe this sort of thing could ease the economic reconfiguration?

I really think there are so many better possible ideas out there than (((financial innovation))).

>>127571420
>ctrl-f "scientific method"
>0 matches

>>127578357
go back to my post. I did respond (saying that MWP and little ice age are associated with changes in the magnitude of explosive volcanism). The mega drought-point was an addendum to that.

>>127575992

Population increase would be great if it came with an increase of responsibility, creativity and IQ.

Sadly a rising standard of living is breeding overeating 'snowflakes' who say eew gross at the idea of wearing the same clothes as last year or shovelling a compost toilet, and status hungry morons who want bigger cars and wasteful things to show off with.

>>127572290
>what is your argument even though I have no argument myself?
Global warming should be proven before people need to disprove it.

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>>127573854
take heart in the FACT that no legitimate scientist will call you 'denier.' The correct word is 'skeptic,' or perhaps 'n00b', but never 'denier.'
I've never met a denier, and I've been looking for one for 15 years. Skeptics by the millions, zero 'deniers.' Everyone seems to know the climate changes. Checkmate, theologians.

pic related. do you guys want to see the other 10 pages to this argument?

>>127578719
what the hell are you talking about? Is asking someone what point he's trying to make a fallacy now?

>>127571420

We should push for climate change as a solution to white genocide. Monkeys drown, whites swim. Climate means fuck all compared to white genocide, shit thread OP.

sage

>>127578291
Manmade warming works fine. Or if you want to be so wordy you can always go with "doomsayer drivel completely reliant on the presupposition of a positive feedback loop caused by an increase of atmospheric water vapor being correct, which is thoroughly proven false with just a cursory glance at geology since actual climate change is cyclical and never spiraled out of control turning us into Venus during any prior, much hotter, warm period".

>>127579007
you misunderstood climatology if you think the existence of positive feedbacks would mean a Venus-like runaway greenhouse effect

>>127578086

Ahh, that kind of thing, distopia and disaster movies have always been popular, I didn't like the bad science in some of those films.

I thought Al Gore was only 'debunked' on one thing which was the correlation of CO2 levels and global temperature in prehistory.
The calculations that would have gone into a graph like that are tenuous I guess.

>>127578361

>Yeah but reducing global water concentrations by 200 ppm or whatever it would take isn't likely to affect localized events like clouds.

Not gonna lie, i have no idea what you mean by that, it's like you have the context of the sentence in you head but did not type it out. I'm not saying that to try an insult you, im just saying that i don't know what you are on about here because i am either missing your reasoning or some key bit of context here.


>I just find it amusing that the whole debate centers around a trace gas that we've based our civilization on.

Probably because it's one of the few things we can actively control/have control over.
We cant really do much about water vapor because the world has a shit-ton of water that evaporates completely uncontrolled and we rely on that evaporation for you know, eating and drinking.
We can cut CO2/methane by many methods that have moderate negative impact on the economy, whereas we cannot reasonably reduce the amount of water vapor in the atmosphere.

>>127578433
Yeah that's fair enough i suppose, i was just taking a fairly reductionist viewpoint because it's a really large and complex issue that cant really be answered with any reasonable level of certainty.

>>127578610
>Sadly a rising standard of living is breeding overeating 'snowflakes' who say eew gross at the idea of wearing the same clothes as last year or shovelling a compost toilet, and status hungry morons who want bigger cars and wasteful things to show off with.
You'd wish. In reality it's all African vermin, SEAmonkeys and arabs.

>>127571420
royal society lecture
global greening

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5M1qtN62yk

since the 1970s the earth has had an increase in surface greenery twice the size of continental USA

It’s important to establish some basic principals of the relationship between the biosphere and the climate. Ambient levels of atmospheric CO2 throughout the history of Earth have fluctuated greatly irrespective of human activity and exhibited cyclical patters far before the industrial revolution and the advent of widespread petroleum combustion. The climate is a dynamic system influenced by a myriad of factors including volcanic and oceanic venting, solar cycles, cosmic events, general planetary cycles, methane releasing from the ongoing thaw of the previous ice age, and the biosphere itself, including human and industrial activity. Such complex and dynamic systems are quite robust and exhibit qualities of homeostasis; for example, as CO2 rises, the biomass of plants consequently increases – plants thrive in warm, wet, CO2-rich environments. The effect that CO2 has on temperature is largely logarithmic, with each doubling of CO2 the corresponding temperature increase becomes evermore diminished, and at our current amounts, the effects of increasing CO2 has approached levels of saturation, changing temperature very little – the modest increase in temperature due to CO2 effectively represents a burst of life and organic productivity. The extra warmth allows more water vapor to be liberated into the atmosphere, thereby allowing more plants to thrive in areas where they otherwise wouldn’t be able to – with more plants, more CO2 is drawn out from the atmosphere and incorporated into the surface flora; since the 1970s it has been observed through satellite analysis and surveying that the Earth has gained a continental-sized increase in greenery across the planet, all the while CO2 has been increasing.

>>127578719
>>127578740
I'll believe in AGW when there is ONE!!!!! experiment using the scientific method that proves/tends toward/hints at/marginally alludes to humans being primarily causative to global warming.
And then I'll do the sensible thing for an intelligent, adaptable creature. Buy soon-to-be-arable land in northern Saskatchewan for pennies.

>>127578719
>Global warming should be proven before people need to disprove it.

Nah, only a risk has to be proven for a direction of development (which affects everyone) to be condemned as unsafe.

>>127579349
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2016/carbon-dioxide-fertilization-greening-earth
https://phys.org/news/2017-05-atmospheric-carbon-dioxide-global-greening.html

>>127571420
The USA has made a large decrease in its CO2 emissions over the past decade. We're actually outpacing all regions including Europe and China in CO2 reductions.

Granted a majority of this is due to our switch from coal to natural gas due to the sheer cheapness and ease of using gas compared to coal.

There's also the fact that the "evil" oil companies here in the USA are some of the biggest investors in sustainable energy sources despite popular belief. People need to remember that these companies want to corner the energy market regardless of the source. They killed the electric car years ago because they didn't have a response at the time to corner the market. However, they believe their investments now will allow them to corner energy again even from say fusion, wind, and solar.

Our pulling from the Paris Accords is mostly just grandstanding for Trump and his coal voters which I find to be rather dumb. Especially since we'll meet the terms of the accords anyways due to our own market forces. So we're just giving up brownie points for little to no gain.

>>127579322
I'm not sure that we can substantively change CO2 levels if we don't have a good grasp of how much of it is coming from all the undocumented undersea volcanoes and suchlike.

I'm all for energy efficiency and trying to have a low environmental footprint, but I'm not convinced that we can do much more than that at present.

Meanwhile, you have systems, such as Obamacare, which is really just a footstep toward the global electronic medical records system using IBM's WATSON computers to run complex algorithms to determine your ROI to society based on your age and your water footprint and your carbon footprint and other things in order to determine when it's your turn to die to save money. Any climate person who does not understand the vast financial and economic side of it all is simply too myopic to have an argument.

>>127571420
1 not at all

2 nothing

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>>127579349
>Plants thrive in a CO2 rich atmosphere
That explains why liberals are currently thriving

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>>127579697
it's actually quite easy to tell if the increased CO2 is coming from anthropogenic sources or volcanoes, because they have substantially different isotopic signatures. Looking at how the isotopic ratio of carbon in the atmosphere changes over time, you can tell quite easily that the added carbon has a very light ratio, which is consistent with biogenic carbon from fossil fuels and inconsistent with volcanic exhalation.

>>127579846
Kek

>>127579322
My thinking was to trade higher CO2 concentrations for lowering other gasses. People always just discuss methods of removing CO2 when the reality is they should just be concerned about the overall effect of all gasses and just focus on the most palatable reductions.

>>127579343

What's a SEAmonkey?

Africans and Arabs tend to be very religious so they're less inventive, but they'll buy things like fast food and snazzier mobile phones if they can afford them.

In Indonesia the traditional versions of fast food would be served in folded leaves and people just threw the wrapper into the bushes at the side of the road which was fine. Now it comes in plastic, polystyrene and cardboard packaging, just an example.

>>127579966
By that logic, it's also very easy to find out how much of the background radiation is coming from Fukushima, but nobody wants to do that, and instead the government saw fit to change the acceptable levels of radiation and then cut off public access to the sensors.

You have to think a little bit more out side of the box than trusting the official story. There's not even all that much deep sea exploration that is public, especially not about the Fukushima dead zones or Putin's cute (CUTE) little thing he took down to the Arctic sea floor to see the fresh water supplies there while the rest of the world thinks it's all just about oil supplies.

Did the government fund studies about whether the illegal use of corexit in the gulf and making it illegal to report on the situation had any impact on the gulf stream? Or just a retarded black lady from the EPA with big hoop earings who was too dumb to be able to answer any questions properly before congress?

I mean, hell, when I was in 6th grade, my government-controlled school showed me a video about how it would be a good thing to pump more CO2 into the atmosphere because they had run a scientific experiment demonstrating you got better corn yields as a result.

>>127580386
Remember all those times they tried those biodome projects and so far it hasn't worked?

Good learning experiences, I guess, but an important lesson on how much we don't know.

>>127579697
>I'm not sure that we can substantively change CO2 levels if we don't have a good grasp of how much of it is coming from all the undocumented undersea volcanoes and suchlike.

I get your reasoning here but i do not agree with it.
Just because you cannot perfectly measure your impact does not mean that harm minimization is not a prudent measure.
For example this wildly hyperbolic and somewhat questionable example;
Say for example you are in a room with a heater on full blast while wearing snow gear.
You dont know exactly what the joules the heater is putting into the room vs the heat loss.
And sure, taking off some of the snow gear might not stop you from getting heat-stroke but it will help you last a little bit longer.


>Meanwhile, you have systems...
I fully understand the economic implications, but i feel as though the anti-warming crowd vastly over-estimates the impact of co2 reduction/energy saving programs. Saving energy is simply good practice and reducing emissions can be done at minimal economic losses or even gains, depending on the technologies that appear. especially when a decent portion of it can simply come from corpate laziness, though that might be my personal bias due to working in management.

>>127580369
it's never a good idea rely on reconstructions from a single location, because different places can have very different responses (both in speed and magnitude) to a given forcing. That's why the people who are serious about this use several proxies from dispersed geographic locations, either on a specific hemisphere or the entire globe.

>>127580626
Quite reasonable. Wherever exactly your opinions lie, sensible people can agree on the basics.

I would say that the obvious takeaway is that this entire issue is not a legitimate basis for installing global communism. Politicians don't know anything about any of this and are only going to fuck it up.

>>127580386
>My thinking was to trade higher CO2 concentrations for lowering other gasses
I cant really agree or disagree with that as i lack an in-depth understanding of the relations of multiple gas reduction vs single gas reductions.

>>127580504
you have to explain again what's wrong or illogical about the isotopic signature, because - no offence but- your post reads like a random word salad with random tangents about unrelated issues (Fukushima, Putin, Corexit) to me

>>127580916
The isotopic signature is relevant, which is why I used those assorted tangents. It goes back to my earlier post when I called out the current state of climate modeling for being bullshit because it doesn't cover the feature space adequately, in my opinion.

And when I sometimes bother to read recent publications, most of the effort seems to be on how to add more corrections to fit the data than to figure out what's missing from the models. It's silly.

>>127579262
what Al Gore got wrong was that he simplified the relationship between CO2 and temperature during the last 800,000 years in a very incorrect way. He basically suggested that CO2 was the prime driver of the Glacial-Interglacial cycle and that the timing of both correlate perfectly.

In reality, climatologists have found that the pacemaker of the 100kyr cycle is cleary an orbital forcing and that CO2 provides a necessary positive radiative feedback. The timing of when temperature and CO2 peak is different across Hemispheres due to the distribution of carbon sinks and sources.

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>>127576176
that is an utterly ridiculous characterization, germanon. co2 releases heat at the same rate it absorbs it. it is nothing like a ceiling, unless the ceiling you are speaking of is full of holes.

>>127576519
Except that water vapor is responsible for 97% of the greenhouse effect, retard. Don't you have a somali dick to go suck somewhere, comrade?

>>127576596
Weather and the climate are inherently chaotic, retard, that is why neither can be reliably predicted.

>>127581177
(am I correct in assuming that you meant "the isotopic signature is IRrelevant?)

just rejecting a very straightforward argument that is easy to assimilate by saying it's silly and irrelevant might be enough for you but I hope you'll understand why I don't feel that I'm particularly "wrung" by that point.

>>127581656
you might want to take that up with the people in this thread you think the water vapor feedback (as well as positive feedbacks in general) is a hoax and doesn't exist

>>127581508
What algore got wrong was going to the 1992 UN conference in Rio and devising the global warming scam after consulting with Maurice Strong and Ken Ley.

Seriously, watch, "The Smartest Guys in the Room" like I said. You have to understand the Enron energy derivative financial scam to understand how this is the model for funding world government. After that, look up who Maurice Strong is.

>>127581656
How would you plan on reducing global water vapor levels without obscene amounts of "free money", ridiculous solutions or massive unknown negative consequences ?
water is generally ignored as we have very little control over it, and rely on it very heavily.

>Don't you have a somali dick to go suck somewhere, comrade?
I doubt it, my schedule is not booked for such events any time in the near future. I am however available for hire if the price is right.

>>127581508

Is it still illegal to say Germans are clever?
I had to wikipedia some of that to understand what you said.

>>127581796
No, you're exactly right on that point. If we had more legitimate science on this topic, we would have more legitimate answers.

I would entreat you to read, "Foundations: Their Power and Influence" by Rene M. Wormser, who served as general council to the Reece Commission. It covers in enjoyably deft detail how the control of money controls science.

It even covers the subversive basis of having 53 genders from Kinsey -- the origin of the term "junk science."

>>127581945
your problem is you don't want to admit that the much predicted 2-3 time water vapor feedback isn't happening, which is why the climate models that use that for predictions all predict way more warming than actually occurs. why can't you fucking germans get it through your thick scatalogical skulls that not everyone is a faggot communist who believes in the almighty power of the state to beneficially control every aspect of our lives?

>>127571420
Read Chicken Little. It explains it perfectly.
"Global Warming" is one of the biggest con jobs in human history second only to organized religion.

>>127581956
you can criticize Al Gore all you like, I don't have problem with that

but I can't in good conscious let that claim about devising the global warming scam in 1992. I already posted this earlier in this thread:
The science of this dates back long before Al Gore was even born
The most important early dates and names of this are
John Tyndall (1859)
Svante Arrhenius (1896)
G.S. Callendar (1932)

anyone who thinks this starts with Al Gore or the Club of Rome or the UN or any of that is quite simply ill informed about the history

>>127582191
You seem very full of anger, and given the rather placid nature of the topic it seems unlikely that it comes from the topic of global warming.
If you are not in your teenage years or younger i would seriously recommend visiting a doctor about behavioral/social issues as such "dramatic" responses are usually indicative of unusual cognitive function.

>>127574202

>the west isn't a big polluter anymore

What?? The Chinese government is actually discussing and making plans to prepare for climate change and reduce its effects because it is going to definitely hurt china, and the Chinese government is still powerful enough that they can look past business special interests to question what is best for the country.

America is a shit hole that actively fights the notion that anything can and should be done. We aren't even preparing, we are just ignoring it.

>>127582412
Mathus is from the 1600s. He's even mentioned in Charles Dickinson's, "The Christmas Story" when referring to getting rid of the poor in order to reduce the surplus population.

There's no question that this is a legitimate field of study. The obvious fault lies in using it as an excuse to force people into believing in unnecessary and ineffective solutions as a way, basically, to keep us all as niggers working on the plantation.

>>127582412
Now, let's have another lesson about the Gore family. Since when is Al Gore a scientist? Since never. He has no legitimate basis for lecturing us on a pile of lies for political gain and profit.

Who is his father? Oh, right, remember Arm and Hammer baking soda? Kind of looks like a Communist logo with that arm and that hammer, eh? Bark up that tree. There's actually a guy named "Armand Hammer." It doesn't mean Al Gore's dad was a communist (maybe he was?) but it demonstrates that the family lineage is that of opportunistic profit-making.

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>>127582191
it's so insane to me that anyone would think the water vapor feedback isn't real.
Not only is it based on very simple and easy to ascertain physics it can also be directly observed right now

this isn't a vague assumption, okay?

>>127583052
>>127582141
>>127582768
you can make fun of Al Gore's mistakes, point out how people have been bribed in the past and how wrong you think the proposed solutions are - not of that bothers me in any way. But it doesn't get you any farther in the actual scientific debate unless you can point out concrete flaws with the methodology (of the isotopic signature for instance).

P.S. what does Thomas Malthus have to do with this anymore than Fukushima?

>>127583793
Mathus was one of the originators of the artificial scarcity meme, and particularly to do with crop growth vs. population, which is really at the center of the entire climate change thing. It's all about excuses for depopulation, which is why I referenced Dickinson at the same time.

The Fukushima reference should be obvious since I agree about the isotopic analysis, while also referring to environmental impacts that are way more dangerous than anything climate scientists seem to care about, and how they're not operating off of legitimate measurements for their models anyway.

How do you fucking get by in life?

>>127571420

I'm impressed by the intellectual level of this thread so I'll ask a question and see what people think.

There's 'global dimming' as well as global warming.

Global dimming happens when water vapour condenses around particles such as dust or soot and makes the atmosphere more reflective.

Wind pollinating trees contribute to the dust in the air so . . .

Is deforestation relevant to global dimming?

>>127582606

I'm not impressed either, but, heh, welcome to 4 chan, a lot of anons talk like that here.

>>127584190
Deforestation is more relevant to the water situation, since desertification is a positive feedback loop that causes the air rivers to run back off into the oceans instead of promoting the underground rivers and agriculture. China's Gobi desert is a great example of this with it's combined expansion and tossing of pollution into the air and across the air rivers into especially the US. They have some neat tree projects they've been trying to try to combat this. California recently got #fucked because they didn't have the tree situation necessary to get all that rain into the aquafers instead of into the ocean while at the same time the Oroville dam got #fucked because idiots run the economical decisions. And they probably don't even know about UN Agenda 21 / 2030.

As for the atmosphere, be more concerned about the increased amount of UV spectra A, B, C, and D coming in on through from the sun. D is literally X-rays. That's why crops are burning and it feels like the sun is burning you because it is, and that's not global warming but a frequency filter problem.

>>127584160
On the depopulation point it seems to me obvious that you're raging at the wrong side on this, since it's climate scientists warning that a stable food supply might be in danger, while many in this very thread get off on the idea of people dying due to falling yields.

also is it really a surprise to you that climate scientists are mostly interested in the climate, not unrelated incidents?

Lastly, in what sense are the measurements "not legitimate"?

>>127582077
I can try to explain it in more detail if you're interested

>>127584996
Because the scientists, while well-intentioned, are operating off of incomplete information and are stereotypically too myopic to grasp any bigger picture.

It's the same with the ones I work with. It's a rare treat to meet somebody who can see beyond their particular tiny degree or job opportunity.

>>127585346
then please name some of the information that climate scientists are missing

>>127585099

Yes please, some of it's new to me and I'm interested in understanding it better.

>>127571557

oh so its not just called 'global warming' anymore faggot?

>>127585523
Dude, I already did. Where's the accounting for the multinational manipulation of the magnetosphere for weather war?

>>127571420
The problem is not serious at all. The world has constantly had a changing climate, even within the last 12 thousand years we have seen natural climate change that doesn't even come close to the amount of man made climate change going on.

By any measurable indicator, our industrial activity may actually make our planet more stable by creating more habitable land and increasing world wide precipitation. Industrial activity certainly has some effect on our climate, but it's ultimately a positive net effect.

98% of CO2 is produced from natural sources. If you wiped out all man kind it would make no significant difference in the levels of CO2. Plus, there is greater evidence that higher temperatures cause higher CO2, not the other way around if you look at historical data. Global Warming is a farce!

>>127584633

Nods, desertification happens when ecosystems just collapse and turn to dried mud leaving ecologists guessing what went wrong.

I think the best way to reverse it is to try to make everything in the new dustbowl as close to how it was before as possible, including the diversity of species and behaviour patterns of animals (the manure and urine from a tight herd watching out for predators has a different effect from a scattered herd wandering around, for instance)

Temperate and jungle areas probably won't desertify with the amount of species that still live in them, but drier areas do.

If reforestation misunderstands the causes and plants specific types of trees to fix the perceived problem (instead of the local natural range of trees) it might still go wrong.

>>127586329
Don't forget that it is not global warming or cooling any more but rather climate change. Compare and contrast to people betting on VIX and such because they can't forecast the chaos they created.

One of the keys for this in the Northern Hemisphere, as I referenced earlier is the admitted decay of the Gulf Stream, which allows for the Jet Stream to fluctuate wildly, unusual sea level changes, bad weather in Britain (remember this next time you hear them complaining about the weather in a place where the weather sucks anyway) and new made-up words like "polar vortex" when all of a sudden if you live under the Jet Stream maybe you get a bunch of fucking -40C leaf air up your ass for a couple of days out of nowhere.

That's how badly they're failing at explaining away their lies.

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>>127585593
the Geologists in the late 19th and early 20th century first recognized that large parts of the Northern Hemisphere had been covered by ice sheets not once but several times in the past.

For a long time, it was completely unclear what could cause these massive swings in temperature, until Milutin Milankovic proposed his explanation regarding modulations in the earth's orbit: I'm sure you know that there are several elements in Earth's orbit that change with different frequency (obliquity, eccentricity and precession) and those combined effects change the solar energy that is received by earth's surface. This is called an "orbital forcing" or "insolation forcing" (a forcing is anything that changes the energy balance of the Earth). So the Milankovitch theory says that the cycle between glacial periods and warm interglacial periods is caused by differences in the insolation forcing in summer at the Northern Hemisphere.

Confirmation for this theory comes when you plot the calculated insolation (yellow) against the temperature (red) - and you see that peaks in temperature are consistent with peaks in insolation.

Do you think you got it so far?

>>127586043
ok I think I know were I'm at now
nevermind then

>>127586755

Yes, I think I got my head round that, thanks

>>127586842
They also don't account for the effect of solar activity on the magnetosphere, nor the tectonic reaction, nor the potential effects of the dwarf star that's going to swing around sooner or later.

And that's not even noticing how public science is obviously not going to include black budget factors. You'd really have to have nothing at all to do with science to buy in to this research being anything other than some interesting observations and theories.

>>127584996
The measurements used by Climate Psudoscientists are filled with errors and problems, first of all. I'll list a few, the are complex, so you'll have to look them up:
1. Uban heat sink influences the temp record
2. overweighted northern hemisphere data
3. mixing data from actual measurements and tree ring data, gives a false picture.
4. it's too short a timeframe, look at ice core data over the last 100,000 years you'll see the "blip" we are currently experiencing is insignificant.
5. Nasa satellite data (average temp of earth from space) shows little to no warming over the last 30 years.
6. All of the climate science is based on predictive alogarithims. This is not science. Look up the scientific method. Predictive alogarithms a psuedo-science. Plus, none of them predict anything very accurately. There are hundreds of competing models. It' so bad the IOC just uses an average of all of them to claim the earth is getting warmer.
7. All models fail to predict future temperatures in any statstically significant way based on past data.

ITS ALL BULLSHIT!

>>127574621

>there is currently no other forcing besides direct anthropogenic GHG emissions that could explain the rise in temperature


Apart from one extremely large flaming ball in the sky which is impossible to model

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When are we going to wake up and realize the only way we can stave off disaster is to start paying way more taxes to climate scientists?

>>127587339
Dude, the SUN! Have you considered variations in the sun's output?

>>127582606
no, i'm not full of anger at all. I just use ad hominem to weed out the weak in case I decide I give a fuck enough to put out the effort to win an argument. The debate concerning AGW is over, we all know it's a fraud, that's undeniable.

(reason is wasted on the internet, and it's a lot of work to support rational arguments)

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>>127587065
unfortunately there are several problems and unanswered questions with this theory. The two most important ones are:

- it was recognized very early on in the theory that the orbital forcing that results from these changes in orbit are way too small to cause a significant warming or cooling on Earth, let alone melt gigantic ice sheets. But insolation still correlates with temperature, so there had to be at least one other factor that would amplify any warming or cooling.
According to paleoclimatologists, the necessary additional feedback comes in the form of a CO2-feedback and the ice-albedo feedback. What happens is this: Changes in the Earth's orbit impart a small initial warming. This warming might not melt any ice, but it is large enough to release CO2 (and methane) from the global ocean and the continental soils. Since CO2 is a powerful greenhouse gas, it amplifies the warming, which in turn releases more CO2 an so on. The resulting warming is then strong enough to melt a significant amount of ice. Melting of ice means that a highly reflective surface is replaced by darker ocean and soils, which absorb more solar energy and thus increase the warming even more.

That's what happens at the beginning of a warm period. At the inception of a glaciation, the opposite happens: Orbital forcing causes a small cooling, oceans and soils then absorb more CO2 and ice sheets spread and reflect more sunlight.

That's why CO2-concentrations broadly follow temperature trends during that time.

>>127583404
that's what your so called "scientists" claim, but they are well known to skew data to support global socialism so we can all pay obeisance to the wise socialist overlords in Brussels.

>>127587339
take a look at that graph I posted: the solar forcing is included in the natural ensemble

>>127574279
That's not true at all. Europe has tons of low lying areas and the South will be horribly affected by climate change due to how low lying they are. Florida will be under water before California.

You live in hilly new zealand so you're lucky, but if you are dutch get prepared to speak atlantean.

>>127587365
You know how NPR likes to brag about having "driveway moments" when it's time to collect more shekels from the goyim?

Well, I wasn't in the driveway at the time, but one of my favorite moments was when they excitedly announced that algore had just used his infathomable charitable weatlth to donate another $300M to "help prove global warming" (direct quote.)

This was years after the "science was settled," "there is no debate" and you were a holocaust denier if you disagreed, even before you were a climate denier.

This is why I keep listening to NPR. These people are out of their god damned minds.

>>127584996
>it's climate scientists warning that a stable food supply might be in danger,

use of weasel words like "might", "perhaps", "is speculated to" are glaring red flags contained in EVERY single AGW supportive climate study I've seen. yet another reason to distrust these charlatans, along with use of the word "scientist" to imply the authority of god-like, infallible beings.

>>127571420
There isn't anything I debate climate change real or not doesn't matter

If the earth starts cooling we have something to worry about a warm earth is fine

>>127579349

Best red pill I've seen in ages this one. Just be glad you don't have to take it anally

>>127588411
that's completely indistinguishable from the stuff creationists say in their embarrassing attempts to discredit life sciences
honestly, so many believing stuff like this (including what you said about scientists faking data do bring about global socialism) is the reason the U.S. is left as the mockery of the world

>>127576283
Then explain what it means. Also what are your thoughts on john christy and his work?

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>>127588411
>along with use of the word "scientist" to imply the authority of god-like, infallible beings.

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>>127589003

It's complete bullshit but if you want to turn off your AC and sweat be my guest.

>>127588770
Don't forget other things I already told you about earlier in this thread, such as faking the radiation data from Fukushima. In order to mitigate the magnitude of the obvious lies, they even pulled a PR stunt to make Obama's drones cool by saying they finally flew one over the reactors to take a picture and NOW the science is settled so stop asking questions.

And then it went back to a media blackout and you're crazy for trying to use the scientific method.

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>>127588067
Or you are dealing with a spurious relation.

>>127588770
Fortunately I believe creationists are just as idiotic and dogmatic as climate alarmists. The is yet more proof of my rational nature toward all things. Except German Socialists. I can't stand a fucking jewed up German. And here is more news for you, comrade, the mockery of fools is an insignificant factor to Americans.

>>127576176
So the solution would be to predetonate Yellowstone and cause volcanic cooling right?

>>127588067
- the second big problem in contrast remains unanswered to this day. It's called the "100kyr problem". If you take a look again at the graph comparing insolation with temperature, you might notice something. The peaks in temperature might coincide with peaks in insolation, but there are other insolation peaks with similar magnitude that DON'T result in any major warm periods.

So the big question is what causes the interglacials to be spaced so evenly every 100,000 years? You might think it's because of Eccentricity (also shown in the graph in blue) but there are climatologists who point out that eccentricity is actually the weakest out of all the orbital modulations.

There are papers who implicate other things such as dust concentrations, but the problem essentially remains unresolved.

>>127589495
Yellowstone would make Tsar Bomba look like a firecracker. Superheating the nearby lake with magma would cause an explosion of untold proportion.

>>127576890
Why not just nuke china and india to create an ash cloud?

>>127589695
China's desert is already sending over enough of an ash cloud m8. That's a part of the reason why people in like Aridzona and Texas are having all these respiratory problems.

Fuck that noise.

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>>127589374
it's not a spurious relationship, if you combine the evolution of solar and CO2 forcings over time, you get a very good correlation with temperature.

Over the time period you showed, the generally falling concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere has balanced out the generally growing luminosity of the sun. That's why paleoclimatologists refer to CO2 as "Earth's thermostat" and "the principal control knob of Earth's climate"

>>127588067

Very interesting, thanks.

It's quite a mechanical model for complex systems which could have other interactive variables.

>>127571420
Disregard climate change. Get tech and terraform.

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>>127571420

>>127590082
it's definitely very complex and there are many unanswered questions, for example: the amplitude of the eccentricity changes with a period of ~400,000 years - yet this signal is completely absent in the temperature record of the last 800,000 years. Or another mystery is the Middle Pleistocene transition: for unknown reasons, the glacial cycle goes over from a low-amplitude, high-frequency (with a period of 41,000 years) into a high-amplitude, low frequency cylce (with a period of 100,000 years) in the middle of the Pleistocene. The ultimate cause of this is completely unknown and most climatologists seem to think it has something to with glacial erosion of continental regolith, but we don't know.

With a complex and interesting evolution like that, it makes it all the more depressing to see it get raped by Al Gore ("it's all CO2!") and climate skeptics ("this proves CO2 isn't important!")

>>127590397
That's one of the most dangerous ideas around. We need to declassify the extent of the space exploration projects ASAP so we can conduct the terraforming and genetic engineering experiments somewhere sufficiently isolated from the only Earth we have.

Random thought. Earth is effectively a closed system. While some atmosphere had been lost to solar wind and a few billion Tom's of rock from space have fallen to earth in its several billion years of existing, for all intents and purposes, the elements here now are the same elements that have been here since earth formed from interstellar gasses and debris. So the amount of carbon in the system is the same as it always has been. Now I understand that fossil fuels are basically hydrocarbons left from plant life that died in massive enough quantities to basically be buried, compressed and fossilized into coal and petroleum. So at one time on a much warmer earth with a vibrant and thriving eco system, all that carbon was free in the environment and fueled early plants to spread across the planet.

>>127591897
you're largely correct except for the fact that the most carbon is stored in the form of carbonate rocks (ostensibly limestones), not fossil fuels

>>127589835
lol blaming a country so far away for your problems, annual carbon dioxide emissions per capita of USA is more than 2 times of China, you don't get called fat fucks for no reason
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_per_capita

>>127590719
>With a complex and interesting evolution like that, it makes it all the more depressing to see it get raped by Al Gore ("it's all CO2!") and climate skeptics ("this proves CO2 isn't important!")

I can understand how that's depressing, more people will listen to a simplified explanation (as politicians like Al Gore probably know) and then skeptics can attack the oversimplifications and steer the conversation away from risk assessments and into ad hominem attacks.

>>127592457
Eat shit, chink. Or maybe more melamine.

Go ride an escalator.

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>>127592690
>a typical amerishits no argument reply
color me surprised

>>127591897
There's an interesting story behind the term "fossil fuel" itself. And I'm not sure I'd even give much credence to L. Fletcher Prouty's claims about what the second most abundant liquid on the Earth is.

But when you get in to the topic of energy (which is what the carbon cycle is all about) then you're talking about something so powerful (literally) that it would be literally a matter of state secrets and global warfare, which it is. That's what makes Rex Tillerson such an interesting pick for SecState.

>>127592690
Do you actually have arguments or you just memeing?

>>127592565
people just don't bother to sit down and listen for a few minutes
best example for this is what sometimes happens at senate hearings in the US on this

in 2010, representative Dana Rohrabacher asked Richard Alley (one of the leading glaciologists in the world) exactly what I explained to you, namely what caused the glaciation in the past when humans weren't around. And he gave him 15 seconds(!). In the end, Alley desperately tried to explain the milankovitch theory to Rohrabacher using his own head as a representation of Earth

here's the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2m9SNzxJJA&t

>>127592995
Nobody cares about your small penis. Much more important is Obama's America Invents Act which allowed you to build an industry of roughly 1M patent trolls, your decrepit financial system, and your horrible living conditions that will be used to undermine your government even without unleashing Best Korea, your lack of access to water, and your global reputation for fakery. Let's not even have to remind ourselves about your cyber vulnerability or military weakness. Don't you lecture me about some meaningless Jewish lie about per capita CO2.

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>>127592457
dumb subhuman chink. you only exist because you steal everything from us. per capita is nothing

chinese subhuman ruining our oceans? check!

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>>127592457
chinese subhuman poisoning our air? check

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>>127571420

Environmentalism is what's important.

"Climate Change" is an Agenda to De-Industrialize the West, justify mass Eugenics & its connected to UN Agenda 21/24.

Also, "Man Made" is incorrect. "Women Made" is the proper term since they are the biggest Consumers.

http://archive.4plebs.org/pol/search/subject/knowledge%20bomb/username/anonymous5/tripcode/%21%219O2tecpDHQ6/

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>>127592457
can you see chinese subhuman smog from space? check!

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>>127592457
chinese subuhman dying like irrelevant insect he his due to his own pollution? CHECK!

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>>127573854
> "that was PROBABLY researched by big oil"

Tell them "big oil" did not produce this chart. Look closely at it. See the pattern?

>>127592457
https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2016/03/how-sophisticated-test-scams-from-china-are-making-their-way-into-the-us/474474/

http://archive.is/xW2Db

chines subhuman is really just a cheating fucking rat? CHECK!

>>127594153
Please remember to archive sources renowned for shilling and clickbait. Thank you.

https://archive.is/SVxsy <- theatlantic.com article

>>127593810
>>127594172
I love how this thread has managed to attract some of our best.

top kek

>>127592457
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/07/25/fbi-china-most-predominant-economic-espionage-threat-to-us.html

http://archive.is/6t8Bz

chinese subhuman can only steal technology? check!

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>>127592457
chinese subhuman has absolutely no creativity and has to rip off video games from other countries? check!

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>>127592457
subhuman chinese torture and eat dog? CHECK!

>>127571420
nobody knows, because the consequences are unpredictable. don't believe anything you read, most shit published is fear mongering. when you get down to the gritty details the answer is we dont know

funny that the only measurable changes on the planet so far are presumably good, like greening.

>>127593484
kek the amount of shit you managed to spill is amazing, I have to give you that
>penis
hello nigger
>patent trolls
speak of the devil
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/BX.GSR.ROYL.CD?locations=US
>decrepit financial system
from a country who did QEs to support their stock market
>horrible living conditions
with life expectancy growing every year
>lack of access to water
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/03/24/americas-water-crisis-goes-beyond-flint-michigan.html
>cyber vulnerability
is this why your media is whining Russia hacked your election all the time?
>military weakness
from the country only dare to pick up fights with sandniggers over the past decade
>some meaningless Jewish lie about per capita CO
go back to stromfront honey

>>127595649
I'm white, you're wrong, go home.
>muh russia

The absolute state of Chinese intellectuals.

>>127571420
it is imperitive we stop it as it's mostly already too late (in other words new tech needs to develop to turn things around.) its one of the only things that globalism is actually useful for.

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>>127593659
>>127593758
>>127593882
>>127593952
>>127594153
>being this triggered
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>127573854
>I would like to be more educated on climate change
here you go fellow burger
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52KLGqDSAjo&list=PL82yk73N8eoX-Xobr_TfHsWPfAIyI7VAP&index=1

People still debate this thing....
If you won't read this, you probably flatearther and believe in unicorns.
https://brooks.house.gov/media-center/news-releases/climate-experts-testify-climate-change-projections-are-unreliable-and


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXQr5AzHgNk

We are fucked.

The end of the world as we know it, will come in our lifetime. Basically every scene from The Road will be our future.

>>127596006
there are C02 pumps but its not profitable. We have to face the fact that consumerism requires unlimeted resources and growth to work. At least until we get rid of central banking.

>>127571420
Even if climate change isn't a problem, whites should be in favor of making the earth colder, as it would produce a more favorable habitat.

>>127598844
checked, but it would be better to release whatever gases (fats, zyklon, CO1, whatever) it would take to eliminate the kikes once and for all.

Then we could go back to having science for the general benefit of mankind.

>>127571420
We be doing everything we can to accelerate climate change, until New York and Los Angeles are returned to the sea.

>>127571420
>How serious is the problem and what steps should be taken about it?
Very serious, because no one knows what is happening and what is going to happen.
We were so focused on CO2 emissions we completely ignored solar cycles/activity.
That has confirmed changed our climate within years in human history.