If Colonialism never happened

>>127338322
that's such a stupid question, but I know you're aware of that. If "Colonialism" never happened than it's irrelevant to consider whether Europe would be wealthier or poorer as it would be so totally different it wouldn't be comparable

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>>127338543
shut up its serious question. they talk about reparations and shit in the trillions of dollars. try to tell me what trillions of dollars with interest compounding over 500 years would do to our society, and tell me we wouldn't be affected

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>wealth of other nations
>wealth

they can't even exploit their own now.

>>127338322
ONLy if youre retarded woth no idea about economics, there is no colonial wealth in any euro country.

>>127338322
Almost the entirely of western wealth / growth is attributable to the individual revolution and market capitalism. Slavery was actually getting in the way of economic developer as it prevented a proper labor market from forming. The net beneficiaries of colonialism were the colonies. Without colonialism, Africa still would not have the limited infrastructure that exists now, medical care, etc.

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>>127338322
The middle east and Northern Africa were white people's until Islam,
So probably should include if the dark ages could have been avoided if shit skin sand niggers never left their shit hole near India

>If Colonialism and slavery never happened,
Are you talking only about the the 5 western nations that got to it or any kingdom that ever did that?
Cause if it's the first then Russians, Mongols, Indians, Chinese or Muslims would've done it.

>>127338322
outside of the industrial use of gold and gems, they have no worth. if the euros never got that stuff out of Africa/Americans they'd have just moved to a backless currency like we use today.

Also why do you americans believe some europeans got together and said let's colonize the rest or what?
What did the aztecs do with the rest of the tribes or the Romans with all the mediterranean if not slavery and colonization?
SURVIVAL
Get it on your head
Colonize or get colonized.

>>127338322
How much wealth did Singapore steal from Africa, retard?

>>127338322
Eastern and Nordist Europe didn't colonize any part of africa or america or asia other than some ports and you can see their cities and civilization, they weren't as rich but they weren't poor either.

>>127340996
There is no such thing as stolen wealth, nothing anyone uses comes taken from
Africa mor are there any african resources or anything, African resources USED to be used by euro powers when it ended then all resources were lost and only redources used were traded from
Local sources.

it's not like africans were using rubber before the europeans you know
also no such thing as africa as one nation, they were several kindoms fighting between them just as europeans but with spears instead and slaves

>>127341345
Wealth from
Africa is as syolen
By europeans as the current iwners of that respurce, but retarded social marxism takes precidence over facts and economics.

>>127338929
>try to tell me what trillions of dollars with interest compounding over 500 years would do to our society, and tell me we wouldn't be affected

that still doesn't make any sense. Are you writing some sort of shitty essay on this for a summer class? My point is that colonialism was the beginning of joint-venture capitalism, and ran on speculation. It was inevitable owing to the wealth, manpower, and technology of Europe in the early modern era. One can't clearly separate ILL GOTTEN COLONIAL WEALTH and DOMESTICALLY PRODUCED EUROPEAN wealth as a Europe where colonialism and speculation weren't occurring would be a Europe that was poor and technologically inferior in the first place

>>127341716
Are you retarded?
Afrivan resources are just fuel you lose fuel then you have what you didnt have as extra.

>>127342075
dead people in ww1?

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>>127341716
which is my point; it is all stolen wealth. That's why when people bash refugees, or say we should stop foreign aid, I can at best laugh at them, and at worst, want them fucking silenced. We literally caused basically every problem on this planet, and then we go "who, who did that, I don't know!"

>>127342230
stupid fuck
you don't even know what the ottoman empire was now do you?

>>127342075
>Afrivan resources are just fuel you lose fuel then you have what you didnt have as extra.

what?

>>127342230
Only way Africa would've been better without colonialism is that africa would have now maybe 5% of the population

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>>127339804
Give back our gold.

>>127338322
If colonialism didnt happen the middle east would have eventually been either genocided or turkey would have began colonizing instead

We would have no potatos, tomatos, modern corn, no USA, no french revolution, spain would have been part of Austria de facto, lots would have changed
Literally everything would have changed, nothing would be the same

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>>127342536
so you u admit that native americans would not have been the victims of genocide, and that Africans would be fully modern now without us purposefully making them fight amongst each other, and stealing their resources?

>>127342531
"Our" when are you giving back the copper to its rightful owner?

>>127338322

Colonialism was a net drain and plantations were pretty much removed from the rest of the economy.

>>127338322
If America needed slaves to build the nation, why was the South so poor compared to the North?

Africa has had blacks for along time. what happened there?

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>>127338322
No, the people who think Africa would be some kind of Wakanda like superpower are fucking deluded.

Besides a lower IQ, the continent is handicapped by the cultural malaise known as "African Time", which was on full display in Empire of Dust.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_time

This explains why non-black civilizations are usually shitshows.

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>>127342737
You mean to the Pachamama?

Cause the cooper it's ours.

>>127342849
Slavery does not do anything other than enrich an individual paying workers produces exact same production but dustributes it more to worker..

>>127338322
Niggers were brought here to pick cotton, to make clothing and bedsheets. You're giving their contribution far too much credit.

>>127342230
that doesn't make any sense, we're talking about economics not some liberal dogmatic twaddle. What is "stolen" wealth? What do you think Europe was pursuing? Commodities, primarily spices and exotic goods. The early to mid colonial period saw production of foodstuffs and raw resources overseas that couldn't be produced in most European climates; tea, coffee, sugar, cotton, etc. This isn't "stolen" wealth, as the Caribbean islands, for example, were non-productive by any definition of production of surplus. The labor acquired through the slave trade was through trade, it was arguably mutually beneficial to West African and Arab traders, the ship owners, and the slave traders.

Late colonialism sees an explosion in overseas exploitation of resources such as metal, wood, fuels, almost all of which is capable only through Western investment, speculation, and involvement. It wouldn't have happened otherwise, so how is it "stolen"?

>>127338929
Yes salt and other spices made us very rich and permanently fucked brown races

>>127342954
Who is rightful owner of vopper?

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>>127338322
serious question are you so fucking stupid as to not realize all the other nations in the world besides the western world still practice slavery ?

>>127342733
a lot of meme pretenses here, I was fairly certain you were just trolling and now I'm positive. Why are you doing this? We could have an actual discussion but you're just being a dumb twat

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>>127342733
both the africans and indians would have died of dysentry look whats happening now that "the white man" left africa.

Massive starvation and plagues.

You have not replied a single one of my posts
You are just a troll

>>127342531
>our
no such thing as chile befor spain
it's not yours

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>>127343218
Legally?

Rockefeller.

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>>127343449
If you stole it from our cold death hands it ain't yours.

>>127343492
So you are the rightful owner of the copper?
Or rockefeller if so go talk to rockefeller

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>>127343255
>t. someone who has never had a college history class

>>127344087
Look, if you actually believe that stuff I'm willing to engage in a debate. Why are you ignoring Spainbro?

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>>127344012
I just want the artifacts back.

This pendant took more than a year to make, Nahuel got a prophetic dream that told him where to mine the silver, he dig till his hands bleed, in order to make it for Rayen the daughter of the Lonco.

Spanish hairy manbeast killed her for it and murdered his son that tried to protect her, while Nahuel was fishing.

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Meanwhile in africa

>>127344087
Some genocide if they are still alive.

Get a dictionary fucko.

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>>127344446
then lets kill rockerfella.

>>127340158
>market capitalism magically led to every scientific advancement
Fuck off idiot. The only reason capitalism became prevalent was because the resource surplus from colonies shifted the balance of power to the bourgeoise.

>>127342230
Sure let's just let ourselves get overrun by third world uneducated browns who believe Islam and want to murder all of us, or we'll just become the new race of browns. Great fucking plan, retard, this is where your historical white guilt leads us. Why is it that only white countries need diversity? Japan and China are racist as fuck and keep people out, and no one bats an eye. But crybaby leftist loons want to open the gates to let in the hungry barbarians, insisting nothing bad will come of it.

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>>127344783
You mean Antifa ?

Search Results
bourgeois
ˈbʊəʒwɑː/
adjective
adjective: bourgeois

1.
belonging to or characteristic of the middle class, typically with reference to its perceived materialistic values or conventional attitudes.
"a rich, bored, bourgeois family"
synonyms: middle-class, property-owning, propertied, shopkeeping; More
conventional, traditional, conservative, conformist;
ordinary, commonplace, provincial, parochial, suburban, small-town, parish-pump
"she came from a bourgeois family"
antonyms: proletarian, unconventional
(in Marxist contexts) upholding the interests of capitalism; not communist.
"bourgeois society took for granted the sanctity of property"
synonyms: capitalistic, materialistic, money-oriented, commercial; informalyuppie
"foreign ideas were denounced as bourgeois decadence"
antonyms: communist

noun
noun: bourgeois; plural noun: bourgeois

1.
a bourgeois person.
"a self-confessed and proud bourgeois"
synonyms: member of the middle class, property owner
"Liebermann was a self-professed and proud bourgeois"
antonyms: communist

Fuck I knew Antifa where bad but I didn't know they stole the wealth of Africa.

Makes sense though how many liberals went over to fight the african child soldiers though.

Liberals liberally killing african kids in the jungles of africa.

>>127344783
because the landed nobility is well known for innovation?

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>>127345001
so why do communists proffess their love for the party but are known for killing their allies.

Shit they are anonymical to themselves.

Rich white kids dressing up as freedom fighters and calling blacks white supremacists.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoxP5vfN3bE

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>>127344575
Let's kill him and stole his silver, colonialist style.

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>>127345559
Take his possessions first then he will die because thats all that attaches him to this world.

>>127338322
colonized lands were literally hundreds if not thousands years behind in progress, they would be much worse with only their own "creations"

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>>127338322
>If Colonialism never happened
Brown countries would still be poor as they were before colonialism.
Thread/

>>127338322
Oh it's Europe's fault that Africa is a mess isn't it? Without Europe's intervention Africa would now be a flourishing peaceful continent, right?

Europe is only wealthy because they exploited other countries and took their resources, right?

Not 500 year long intra-continental economic specialisation, not the rise of nation states, not social contracts, not the creation of economic and legal infrastructure, no bananas, cocoa and palm oil is what gives nations wealth...

The wealth of Europe is not material wealth, it's the a stable and safe societies they live in. From that context wealth is create

>>127338322
No. Slavery in fact retards progress. Niggers fucked us over again.

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>>127345668
Apparently the only thing that he has that he actually made and collected himself it's his bettle collection.

He can keep that.

>>127338322
No real economic growth happened before industrial revolution.

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>>127345775
Return our jewelry, euro niggers.

>>127345373
I can't answer that question but he meant the urban middle class, by bourgeois. Burgher, Burger, citizen, Burg dweller, etc. "Colonialism" happened because of them for the most part, it was a continuation of late Medieval, Renaissance economic and speculator trends. Colonialism is really not that different than the spread of the Hanseatic League in the North and Baltic seas, basically just with better shipping technology

My critique is if it weren't for the speculation and pursuit of future earnings that is inherent to capitalism that most innovations wouldn't spread. They MAY be discovered and utilized but the widespread adoption for competitive reasons is a hallmark of capitalism. If that poster is postulating a different wealthy class, a non-"capitalist" one I can only imagine it would be the Medieval landed nobility that takes its profits through rent and sharecropping; only engaging in little trade, and that trade being possible only through the existence of cities, both natural and ecclesiastical

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>>127346277

prattling on as you do .

The answer is because they are full of shit and so are you.

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>>127346277
They see something pretty they want it, the cheaper the better, all the rest it's rethoric and justifications.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yE-C6tD-yYA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7ua4VIVbNY

>>127346413
what? I wasn't even unsympathetic to whatever you were trying to say; it was just irrelevant

is the sun addling your brain down there?

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>>127346577
pretty much this.

Everyone is just talking bullshit hardly anyone is being real.

>>127346653
you missed the point entirely.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eMvryXDHWQ

>>127344998
Its an actual term used to describe the emerging middle class. Are you fucking retarded?
>>127345001
Not the point. Capitalism arised from resource surplus

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>>127346900
Classists are kill on sight fyi

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welcome to the real world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzKgXcjn6H0

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESLEW-WYLOY

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wg00xoWptw

>>127346900
>Not the point. Capitalism arised from resource surplus

I'm not disputing that; that much is quite obvious. But if not for the capitalists who do you see investing into new technologies and production methods? The state? individual nobles? That too would require resource surpluses that would imply similar economic conditions to that of the late Medieval to early modern period. Cities, advanced manufacturing, credit, etc.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bofwya97-CA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOpx5xzXDk4

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Robber Baron in the tower,
Counting all his gold.
You know while he goes unchecked
And stays in power,
He's never gonna let,
He's never gonna let,
He's never gonna let us go!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpDAIG5lBhk

It's a mixed bag for India in my opinion; We had muzzie rulers in the Moughals and the subcontinent was perpetually divided along communal lines; Although there is reason to believe that Moughal were a declining empire anyway and the Hindu's were taking control; The Birtish did act as a catalyst. Also, The transfer of western technology obviously had it's upsides although this process could have easily been peaceful and mutually beneficial instead of hyper expolitataive. It is not an exgaeration to say that the medieval era Indian industry was systematically destroyed because of colonial policies. In the end, I still not sure if India was better or worse off; primarily because history is not over yet; The west did harm itself in the process by loosing it's sense of Christian morality and forcing glottalization upon itself.

>>127347437
I agree with you. OP's post was just about how advancement resulted from resource surplus, which it essentially did. Capitalism was the system that would have naturally arised after feudalism and mercantilism due to the large market of goods that was now available.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH8B5E0tIWo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwFJ-7L1IZc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3ss30ym2Vs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_6msJiMSMo

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Xa7govSKM4

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>>127347873
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaHbuaED5Tw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJuaz5hzI0M

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Once, long ago there was a time
in what now seems a distant land
Each small boutique was precious and unique
'Cause every little thing was made by hand
Then there came a revolution
The progress of production was its aim
Now instead of one, there were many
And each costs just a penny
But every single one looks just the same

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRce8HzHuoM

We paid for colonialism with two world wars. Please btfo yourself.

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>>127350328
What?

You fight among yourselfs and destroy your own monuments and now it's our fault or something?

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>>127350791

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_America_during_World_War_II

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If you really want to act like that give the land back to the natives Chile.

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Chile/Founded

12 February 1818

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Jewish Passports-El Salvador

While Jews were trying to escape exile in The Axis powers,Colonel Jose Castellanos Contreras saved up to 40,000 Jews by providing them with Salvadoran passports which could be used as a form of Political Asylum.This was however very quiet and unrecognized part of El Salvador for World War 2.

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>>127351287
Before being Chile we were the Collasuyo, still a determined nation.

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>>127351479
>Collasuyo
When talking Geopolitics you must make your points clear.

>"Give back the stolen goods to Collasuyo"

Not Chile.

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>>127351620
I'm actually posting Mapuche jewelry and the Mapuche nation still exists.

You can leave them in Temuco, with a written apology.

If you don't want to dismantle Chile and become the seperate nations again or whatever then you don't get back the treasure.

>Not that I don't want you to have it back Im just saying what they will say as an excuse.

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>>127351856
I would rather take more of your shit to be honest just because of your attitude I would rain death from the skies upon you for your sleight and don't think I can't I am trying to help you fucko by explaining very carefully why they will not relinquish control of it without semantics

So if you want to go ahead and try and trick me you can expect I will return the favour.


My statement was a general one I don't give a shit about your history and for all your relevance you guys could have a famine and I wouldn't hear about it unless I waded in.

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I am far beyond such concepts as economics.

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>>127352239
In what part did I tried to trick you?

They stole people's belongings and now they display them in their museums making money out of things they stole.

The usual argument it's boo hoo spoilers of war we won suck on it, but that's not true we won they lose, they just were niggers about it, stole them when we weren't looking and display them like they do all the rest of the jewelry for the continent.

>>127340158
>Almost the entirely of western wealth / growth is attributable to the individual revolution and market capitalism
not true at all most of the wealth from the British came from taking resources from India via East Indian Company or from other colonies in America

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>>127352657
semantics when I am speaking in general don't be a fool I was initially agreeing it should be given back then you kept going you do realize I am not responsible for private individuals and all you are doing is make me sympathize with them because we where on the same page untill you started saying I should leave you an apology.

Very foolish of you if you ever want to be taken seriously by anyone.

our influence would be reduced, we lost all our power when we gave up the colonies

if anything we'd be more self sufficient therefore richer

>>127343195
Ya, this is what they believe. This what justifies their hatred.

>>127338322
That's really not how "wealth" works. The progressive argument basically assumes that "wealth" is some fixed natural resource that sits buried in the Earth until it gets dug up and put in a bank. In other words, they think wealth means gold bars, diamonds, oil, etc.

A nation's wealth is much more a function of its population and that population's ability to provide itself with necessities. The "wealth" of Europe was in its factories, its farms, its infrastructure, etc. These things were not stolen from Africa - actually the opposite: Europeans built factories, farms, and infrastructure everywhere they went.

>>127338929
You sound like a nigger who's trying to justify more free gimmidats. Fuck off.

>>127353050
It's the we won part the one that really gets to you doesn't it?

It's easier if you are doing out of your own mercy like a virtue signaling fag.

>>127353357
This.

>>127338322
Western nations didn't gain wealth from colonising those shithole countries. They did it to bring civilisation to the rest of the world (white man burden). They did actually take money from the mainland to pay for their colonies.

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>>127353962
Ok you didn't gain any wealth, can you please now return the jewels, we like them and we want to show people that we made them.

>>127353357
bullshit. mainly europeans caused chaos in the colonized countries. they interrupted politcal and cultural processes. colonization often caused war and cultural adaption. after the exploitation the technological advance was often forfeited.

>>127354530
You'll have to return civilisation then and go back to your mud hut and dying at 35 from drinking tainted water.

I didn't say western nations took nothing but they gave much more than what they took.

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>>127355277
Considering how much 500 years of mined gold and silver amount for, you should start taking the calculator and revisit your beliefs, cause we had plenty of civilization to last us to this day.

>>127338322
>>127338929
It's pointless to consider, because the tribes that lived prior to European colonialism didn't make use of their raw materials/resources.

The Congo Jungle, with its trillions of dollars of resources, even nowadays, never saw any value until it was colonized. It's the fault of the tribes for missing the opportunity.

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To those intellectually-stunted faggots who state that colonialism is the cause for Africa's problems and that Africa is a shithole because of it: why isn't Ireland a shithole? It was exploited for centuries longer than most African nations were. Think of Haiti (not African, but nigger): it became independent from Europe during the Napoleonic Era, yet is still a shithole after becoming extremely poor following the revolt. Now think of Ireland, which only became independent almost a hundred years ago following a brutal famine during which it lost more than half of its population as well as constant raping of its resources. Why is it leagues ahead of Haiti when it had much more time than Haiti to recover and probably received much worse treatment than Haiti did. Is it because of the average IQ of Ireland compared to that of Haiti? Nah!
What about Ethiopia? It experienced the least colonialism out of any African country, I would say, yet is a shithole too. Why is that? Because it got INVADED by Italy? Why isn't Poland as shit as Haiti as that was invaded by Germany? Or the Netherlands? Or France? Is it because the latter nations have a higher average IQ than Ethiopia and have, therefore, historically been more successful? Nah! It's because whitey ain't paying up his debts. Fucking cumskins building roads 'n hospitals 'n shieet.

>>127356414
Much less* time
>what is proof-reading

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>>127355958
That's not what we did, we developed and built a nice looking civilization.

>>127356414
Finland as well, it was colonized by Swedes and Russians, practically enslaved by both, for that matter, for over 6 centuries, almost back to back, far longer than the colonization of Africa.
Yet, Finland is definitely seen as a more successful country compared to any African nation in contemporary times.

>>127355633

Lol, yeah, Chile was so advanced and civilised... that's why the Spaniard conquered it so easy and managed to take their gold.

>>127356635
>'we'
Whatever accomplishments past tribes have done in Chile have unfortunately been wiped out, not just through colonialism, but through intermingling of the Europeans and the tribes of the past. The majority of people living in South America are mostly Mestizo and have little in common with said tribes of the past. You wouldn't call a Mexican an Aztec, or an Olmec, or the western end of South America an Incan. They are but relics of the past now.

>>127338322
"Stolen wealth"
"Exploit other counties wealth"

I can't understand people's thoughts that countries fighting in the past and a victor emerging is "bad".
Europe smacked others shit and won. They enjoyed the spoils. Nothing wrong with that at all.

To answer your question, Africa wouldn't be more wealthy hell they would probably be even poorer, due to Euros not spreading their tech to them.

Western nations might be a little poorer than today, but not down to 1/50th.

Colonialism, however, is going to happen one way or another. The Romans did it, Greeks did it, Euros did it, China's doing it to Africa right now, and when the Lizard aliens finally show themselves yo bet we are going to be colonized.

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>>127358668
The natives are still here, the culture, the lands, the traditions, the medicine the language, etc...

>>127338322
Italy never really colonized and it's fine

>>127343660
if your dead it ain't stealing, just looting.

>>127358927
I said majority. There are still natives, of course, just as there are still Native American tribes in the Americas, but they will never return to their 'glory days' of the past. My point still stands, that they are just relics of a time before colonialism. The most that can be done is preserve the culture.

>>127338322
>If Colonialism and slavery never happened
Who do you think brought vaccines and medicine to Africa? The muslim slave trade of european people was two times larger than the Atlantic.

>>127359510
Mapuche history ain't that glorious, besides the "strongest native military" they are pretty much what they have always been.

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>>127338322
Slavery was never really that profitable. Look at the inflation-adjusted incomes of the US and Europe. Even 100 years ago the west was relatively poor.

>>127352657
>we won they lost
>but they still stole from us

if you win your enemies get richer?

>>127338322
The European powers were already wealthy as fuck before the scramble for Africa.

>>127361760
You enslaved the blacks but they still steal from you, you defeated mexico but they still make 40% of your demographics.

Shit happens when you deal with dishonest people.

>>127338322
WE WUZ USEFULL SLAVES!

>>127362261
NO WE WEREN'T, WE THROW SPEARS AT THEIR BACK WHILE THEY RUNNED AWAY WITH THE STATUE OF THE MONKEY GOD.

>>127354941
sorry we took away your manuer made houses and replaced them with bricks you fucking monkey.

>>127343134
This.

Darwin stated the African has had the entirety of its existence to conquer Africa, to exploit its immense treasures. They never truly knew what they had until the Europeans showed up and made actual use of the other dormant resources of Africa. It was not wealth when the Africans had it, just mundane Earth and mineral and uselessness. It was only wealth in the hands of the Europeans, who could refine those materials and use them.

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>>127363591
You made shitty structures.

>>127340187

The conquest of India bankrupted the British Idoit

>>127342230
Also, we caused every problem on the planet? We fought and killed each other in Europe for centuries, and then we expanded to America where we slaughtered the natives in immense century long wars, but to think that we're the cause of every problem in today's society is ridiculous. Yes, we have some responsibility to the ME because of our actions there to subvert governments. Is that action to flood Europe with millions of refugees, many of which are simply economic migrants from North Africa? Fucking no. We have a responsibility to stop bombing the fuck out of their populations, and if necessary, help them in their own countries. Flooding the West with a fuck ton of people who don't assimilate while continuing the issues plaguing the region won't fix shit. It will only make the ME and Europe uninhabitable for the long term. We get it, you feel bad and want to help. Mass migration isn't the way to do it.

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>>127338543
Shut up is not an answer, admit you don't have one or shut up.