Let's effort post

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And once you have improved yourself? Then you are ready to team up with others. The foundation of society is social trust. Do you have other people you can trust? Whose competence and ability you can trust? It is not enough to agree with someone ideologically, you must be able to build something together.

If you can amass enough competent individuals that can trust each other and work together, then society can be restored.

When you have this, the details of ideology and philosophy become less important. Even the specific competences of the individuals become less relevant. Deeds far beyond what we do today have been accomplished by people far less educated, intelligent, and wealthy than us.

But how to improve to this point in a failing society? Simple in concept: Revert to the last known working version, same as when fixing software. Go back at l00 years, as far back as Ancient Greece if you like, and look at their traditions. They had answers we have lost, and you will find that they had a lot in common, even across cultures.

This version of the future has failed. Replace the empty hedonism in your life with the traditions of your ancestors, whoever they were. Then build forward again.

>>126394380
>>126394447
Agreed. More people on /pol/ need to understand that tradition is the final step of being redpilled.

More pics like this please

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>>126395649
Thank you, and agreed. Here's another, and a good source is here: https://twitter.com/wrathofgnon

This thread won't be click baity enough to compete with others, so I'm counting on you to help keep it bumped long enough for a few people to see it.

I've been thinking that so much of the issue is simply Hedonism. And I don't mean merely the pursuit of pleasure, but as a philosophy. It has taken over a place in our model of the world and how to live that used to be filled by greater concepts. And to boot, it is not biologically compatible.

For anyone bothering to read this, I really just want to get a few points across:

Short term fun and long term satisfaction are entirely different. I mean this on a biological, philosophical, and metaphysical level. The chemicals that your brain uses for short term happiness and pleasure are not the same as those it uses for long term happiness and contentedness.

Our current culture is entirely geared at seeking pleasure at the cost of responsibility. This literally turns us into burnout addicts. Pleasure seeking comes from substance abuse, sex, drugs, and all sorts of other methods that ultimately boil down to abusing our bodies reward systems, down to our very dopamine and serotonin systems, to the point that they stop working right. And it wrecks us emotionally too.

Long term satisfactions comes from safety, stability, and low stress. In other words, from order and structure. Order and structure come from taking up responsibility and succeeding at it, however small.

If you doubt my words that tradition is the key, take a new look at it through the lens of personal responsibility, order, structure, and hierarchy. Then look back at the modern world.

Traditions have not fallen away because these systems and structures were found lacking. They have been replaced with cheap hedonism because WE were lacking.

But /pol/, I do not believe we are lacking. I think we can all make it.

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Bump

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>>126394380
Very eloquent OP. Do you think perhaps what you and I are feeling is cyclical? And that when times get harder people will rely on each other once more for their own and each other's success?

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>>126398476
>>126398642

Thank you.

I think it is cyclical due to the mundane operation of the basic mechanism, but I don't see that it should be inevitable.

What I mean is that we certainly see a cycle of progress and reaction, civilizations rising in boots and descending in slippers, or whatever other meme we want to use, but I don't think it's much more complex than any other action that provokes a reaction.

Civilizations get to a decent level, then roll the dice trying new things. In the process they stop doing things that got them to that level. When their risk taking doesn't pay off, they revert to a previous version and try again (often through collapsing.) This process itself is not wrong or bad on the civilization level. This is what any good risk taker does, and risk taking is what leads to breakthroughs and real improvements.

But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to optimize the process, and minimize the loss and damage when recovering from each venture that does not pay off. Because while this isn't a bad system on the large scale, holy hell does it suck for individuals, especially when the whole cycle takes centuries.

So, I think the goal needs to be to continue the process of risk taking, as that ultimately gives us the payoff we need, but to do it without throwing out the working systems that got us in the position that we could afford to take risks in the first place. And while we're at it, we need to optimize for learning from our mistakes.

I have come to believe that tradition is the process that allows us to do this. Tradition entrenches age old wisdom. Often we do not understand its purpose or need, because we no longer have those problems. But this is often a case of a fish being unaware of the water.

The catch-22 is that we can't tell which parts of traditions are useful things to keep that we merely don't understand, and which are bad systems left over from prior failed risks that we need to unload.

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>>126398642
>>126400012

The modern progressive movement and culture shift could, under this model of thinking, be seen as a case of rejecting EVERYTHING due to being unable to judge what is important and isn't. Blank Slate thinking, and the idea that we can start anew from mere rational thought have driven this.

But we can already see that it's not working. And the Soviets basically did all this in the 1930's and it didn't work then either. We are conducting civilization scale human social experiments with no control group, no backup, no method of data collection, no theory or thesis, and no realization that we're even doing it.

The proper role of tradition is to preserve what worked. The solution to the problem of determining what's worth keeping and what isn't is a combination of science (real science, not I Fucking Love Science or social science) and the slow natural filter of human behavior.

We've tried to redesign things based on short sighted rationalism without a full view of how this all fits together. We have eliminated fundamental social institutions because we saw their downsides, without seeing their upsides.

For an example of this, consider the institution of Marriage. If you ask a normie, it was mean to women and kept them trapped in violent relationships, so it had to go. But on that metric alone, we can see that it has failed. The modern dating and hookup culture that has replaced it has lead to VASTLY more emotional and physical abuse than we had with marriage. Before, a certain % of women got unlucky and got stuck with a wife beater. Now, every woman cycles through a long stream of men and inevitably runs into abusive ones. And these abusive ones will go on to abuse many more. And many women still refuse to leave abusive men.

And that does not even begin to get into the others problems with modern sexual pairing, or all the other things we lost with marriage.

>>126400877
>>126400012
Bumping for those silently reading.

I am trying, but it's very hard. How can I make a family in modern society?

>>126397008

hedonists are too weak to stand on their own, so they appropriate whatever political philosophy that will make them have good stories to tell in hope girls will give them a couple pity fucks

We should make a Git repo for actual solid beliefs.

We know the power of Tradition, it is evident to us reading this thread. We need to codify this shit into something solid and meaningful we can spread IRL

>>126401762
Follow a good hard-working father's example. I could tell you my dad's story if you don't have one of your own

>>126402067
Yeah, I come from a very dysfunctional family. I would honestly prefer the example of your mother if you can.

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>>126400877
(Thinking out loud here) I think an example of this system working better may have been Europe during the middle ages. This was a time when there were multiple competing states that fought each other constantly, but they also had shared religion and culture.

This caused an environment where there could be competition that spurred progress, but nobody was going to go so far as to blow up the entire ecosystem because they all believed in the same fundamental ideals and goals. France sometimes wanted to conquer England, but it was not attempting to wipe it from the history books and salt the earth, nor was it trying to destroy the parts of it that they had in common.

This arrangement obviously ended by the 20th century, but it's difficult to say where exactly it did end. I think it was still there in some ways during even the Napoleonic Wars, but certainly weakened.

I believe it would be commonly blamed on the industrial revolution and the shift to Total Warfare, but reading NRX stuff has convinced me that the Protestant Reformation and ideal shifts of the French Revolution played a huge part as well as they lost the shared religion and drifted apart.

I do not know if we could have a modern system of competing nations that warred with each other, but never too much due to shared features. Technology has likely changed this too much. But there are many other ways for us to compete, experiment, and grow. But the current state of cultural civil war and ideological cold war in the US doesn't fit the bill.

Bump

Tradition with a cap T is the final redpill. Fascism and family is the tool to achieve it.

>>126394380
Fuck man maybe I'm too blackpilled all of this seems so hopeless.

I'm just a teenager but no one who surrounds me appears like they will eventually become a suitable wife.

All of my friends are hedonistic scum and I've just realized that.

Out of all my friends at school I can't identify with any group anymore. They are either beta with great values, beta with no values, or alpha with no values. Worst of all no one is curious, they just bite into the hooks all around them.

I'm still going to live the best I can but no one supports you it's difficult.

>>126402425
Historian David Bell (inb4 kike, I still think what he says is true) describes the French Revolutionary and Napoleonic wars as the first example of "total war" between European states, from which they never recovered. It was the first time when the distinction between civilian and combatant disappeared (though he notes that the religious wars could possibly be considered here in some ways). I think that this blurring between civilian and combatant has only become easier and easier given technological capabilities that can make even a little kid a suicide bomber, and that because of this it is difficult to image a not "total" war.

Fascism isn't needed

shared philosophy with a compulsory civic engagement is the true basis of Civilization. I think open-source documentation and blockchain tech could be important. All it needs is to be manifested by genuinely human and empathetic memes

>>126402770
Do you believe tradition can't be maintained in a libertarian society? Even with closed borders?

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>>126401762
Honestly, I don't know. I'm working on that one myself. I do not believe the problem is unsolvable, nor do I believe we should give up on it because it is hard.

I know many want a family because of the benefits of it, but I think we must also want one because we believe it is morally wrong to give up (but it is not to try and fail. You will know if you tried your hardest.)

The reason this distinction matters is because if we only look at the benefits of a family, then we will compare those benefits vs the costs of getting one, and the benefits will never outweigh the costs and risks. For example, the MGTOW argument is entirely persuasive from a cost:benefit perspective. But as soon as you start factoring in the interests of society overall, not merely ourselves as individuals, then the scales tip. And then further add the moral imperative of not giving up on important things just because of the risk, and the picture changes entirely.

So I don't know how to get a family, marriage, wife/husband yet. But I'm pretty damn sure that the first step is changing myself out of a soulless utility function mindset. That's machine thinking, not human thinking. And I'm not sure of the second step, but I have faith that there are clues in the teachings and examples of my ancestors, and in the success of those around me. After all, we are all part of an unbroken chain of life going back to the beginning of the world.

I hope this does not come off as condescending or phony because I can't give you a specific system and can't claim the answer myself. I'm basically telling you "I dunno, but read this and you'll figure it out" and then pointing you at a library of every book ever written, but I hope that somewhere in my rambling ideas and sentiment helps. Pic related.

>>126403137
Not in the current disposition not at all. Fascism is the weapon, nothing more. Its the recognition that you need to organize to defeat an enemy that is organized against you.

>>126403701
I've thought about that

Do you think that humanity could be ready for libertarian Ian after a few generations of fascism? Or is humanity doomed to fall down the hole it is going now.

It seems to me that if good values went through a society hardcore, the it was released from the chains of dragons that it could function like a young adult being released from their parents.

Even if eugenics has to be a part of it I don't know

>>126404048
Fuck me that's unreadable

I'm a mobile poster I apologize

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>>126403032
I was also blackpilled as a teenager Anon, and still am today. But I'm starting to be other things too, and that's what's more important.

I also have trouble finding people in my life that I identify with. But as I learned, I found that it wasn't at all hard to find people overall that I identified it. Unfortunately, most are dead. But thankfully, they were nice enough to write things down for us. And I've found I can identify a lot with other people interested in the things they wrote down.

I've also learned that it's not enough to want to find people I identify with. It's also important to learn to identify with others. It sounds hippy-ish, and its not easy, but difficulty is not an argument.

Right now, we're all pretty damn atomized except for vague groups of race, sex, and perhaps political ideology. We're more numerous than ever, but more alone than ever. If we wait to meet others who happen to already share our vague identity groups, we won't get anywhere. We need to go through the uncomfortable and difficult process of building them. Remember that Identity is not merely something we are, it is more importantly something that we do. A good example of this is a typical Church congregation, and especially the receptions many have after mass. They'll often have very little in common, but they still end up identifying together. They are all choosing to show up and share in a belief and legacy.

And yes, it is entirely unfair that we have to do all this. Society was a solved problem. It was unsolved for political reasons. But unfairness is also not an argument. It's just an attack to guilt another party into doing the work instead.

Again, I am sorry that I can't give a more practical answer. I'm long winded, not wise. But maybe if enough of us think out loud together, something will happen.

>>126404523
I appreciate you for creating this thread. I knew you existed and i'm sure many more do. I will keep fighting the good fight in my corner.

I'm in.

We need to order ourselves together under common ideals.

we must LARP to save humanity unironically.

That is our most important challenge as mankind.

>>126405057
Perhaps it is enough to create our boundaries and when they are transgressed upon fully enforce the related punishments. And hold people to their word.

>>126402314
She was raised in rural Indiana. She moved to California to pursue her career with her Horticultural Therapy Bachelor's Degree, where she got hired at a school district children's farm. She has spent her whole life irreligious yet has been devoted nonstop to the betterment of my community. She now works with urban children five days a week teaching them the importance of farmers and agriculture and does overtime writing grants for her school district. On Saturdays she volunteers for the community by cleaning up, planting, hosting petting farms, etc.

She seems driven by the positive reactions she gets out of young less fortunate urban elementaty schoolers when the see how their vegetables grew from seeds into something they can eat.

As a mother, she didn't always know when to discipline, and was to driven by compassion to a fault. If not for my father her compassion would have allowed me to be a NEET forever.

> Power can only come to those who are able to wield it. Become worthy.

Hestia Society?

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>>126402770
>>126403124

I agree with this:

>"shared philosophy with a compulsory civic engagement is the true basis of Civilization"

and it is another argument for tradition, and all that goes along with it.

I suspect that many systems would suffice. I have no idea which is optimal. But we've seen great civilizations rise with very unoptimal systems before. The greater issue is probably to not get too hung up on the specifics of which system to use, but to identify lots of possible systems and see which you even get the chance to implement.

I do suspect that the solution to our current issues will involve something similar to Fascism, but I do not know if it will stay like that or level out to something else. But maybe I only think that because I read /pol/.

>>126405359
by boundaries I meant values. If we can become fully respectable and hold ourselves and everyone else around us accountable, then maybe thats all we can do. We cant change the world but we can be the change we want to be.

>>126404523
Thanks anon I enjoyed that. Any literature you would sudgest?

Just a couple of problem I've run into is that I've had these hard, long, and deep conversations with friends about casual sex, family structure, and healthy living and they all seem to understand me and agree with me, only to turn around and destroy themselves further. It's brutal on me to see the same things happen over and over.

Also, identifying with others seems to be leaving my moral compass behind all the time now. Whether it's partying, smoking weed, or having casual sex I can't justify my actions any longer with the knowledge of the state of the society we live in within me. I'm disgusted by the actions of others now and cantt enjoy movies the same without seeing the evil influences of them filling those closest to me.

Anyone got a good list for Traditionalist/Reactionary literature?

>>126403407
I understand what you're writing. Trust me, I do not approach it from a utilitarian standpoint.

>>126405776
Have you read Evola's metaphysics of war?

>>126405896
I haven't, is it worth checking out?

>>126405363
How did she interact with you growing up? What did she do in the home, versus what your father did? What kind of values did she teach you and how?

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>>126405896
interesting, of all the usual evola recs I haven't seen this before. I have downloaded ride the tiger and man in the ruins. What is this one about?

>>126405776
chart from /lit/, I'll dump a few

>>126406006
Yes, if youve read "the Republic" even more so, but yes, I really beleive it is.

>>126405896
No I haven't, quick rundown?

>>126406103
It is about the traditional man and his "psychology". The actual inner world of him as he lives in the world and how he should perceive it. It was more influential to me then Ride the tiger (not to say that book wasnt influential) but yea. Also Evola lays out the claims of where he is getting his info etc.

>>126404523
>>126397008
Are these Chesterton? If so, which book?

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>>126406331
Thanks, I'll check it out

I need to sort myself out. It's the truth.

>>126406338
>tfw when its a metaphor

>>126406017
My bad I wasn't sure what direction to begin with. She stayed subservient to my father. His house his rules all of that. She taught me nice guy liberal stuff such as helping the community, being kind, and to appreciate life.

Whereas my father taught me not to turn my back on a nigger. He said that the main goal of life was to take money from other people's pockets and put it into my own, and that a wife, kids, and property would be soon to follow if I did.

>>126405521

It requires a reset of everything, which is easy all it takes is an individual getting red pilled. That's why the analogy works so well, because in an instant it is possible to a man to see a genuinely new idea.

I agree, it requires a complete cataloging and sorting of all worth while ideas thus far manifested.

we must Rediscover, Sort, Decide, and Propagate. This is the basis for new meaningful political engagement, whoever can meme it so will be the ones with authority. But it is also possible as never before to have decentralized authority with the blockchain.

We hear reading and writing in this thread are actually on to something.

Good thread OP

>>126406524
that's okay, thanks fampai,I appreciate it

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>>126394380
>>126394447
Doesn't work from a single individual to the society/nation. Here's why.

It could only work from above, and it will never happen from above ever again until the end of the world.

>>126397008
thanks anon bumping for posterity

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>>126405721
I'll do a separate reading list post, and I see others are making recommendations as well.

You sound a lot like me here. I have walked away from a large social scene and lost a multi-year relationship over this sort of thing, among many other reasons.

I don't know how to make people see who are still stuck in it. I'm not sure we can as individuals. But we know that humans are very susceptible to group pressure and memes. So we need to make those. And in the mean time, we need to meet others who aren't caught up in it all yet, or who are coming out the other side and trying to recover. And also meet older people who were never really in it. I'm not suggesting missionary work, but we do need to just meet more people in order to have a greater chance of finding the ones we like. It is hard.

As for leaving the moral compass behind, I think this issue is where we need to better ourselves. We each need to strive to be something that other people look up to. We want them to look at us and realize that something is working for us that isn't for them, then try to find out. But we can't have them be envious, or they'll react against it. So we must be humble.

If we achieve something and flaunt it, boast, or act with pride, then people will push back against it and go further into their vices. Same if we try to persuade. We must give up the short term advantages of pride in order to lead by example. Then others can let their defenses down enough to follow. And after time, we'll have a group worth being in.

And this improvement doesn't necessarily have to be huge. It just has to exist. And then changes in your behavior and manner that go with it will be a stronger argument than words.

>>126394380
All I need is a cool buzz and some tasty waves and I'm fine

>>126397008
Agreed

>>126400012
>>126400877
>>126402425
some anon screencap this poster. It is rare occasion on pol now to see quality posts like this. I want to screencap if I could

Has anyone hear heard of the Benedict Option? If so what do you think of it? Should reactionaries retreat from the modern world to rebuild society in the hinterlands?

Depending on the direction where things may go in the future, retreating to a insular monastic community to raise a family sounds very appealing to me.

>>126405521
Can you name a couple of systems? And what are your thoughts on the Bible?

>>126407432
the kind of thing that happens in this thread is the result of what is still living in a decaying world. It's the perfect metaphor...

Here, in the "darkest and meanest and horrible place, 4chan" grows a noble flower.

Spread its seed with me annon! We shall meme it to being!

>>126403124

>Fascism isn't needed

>shared philosophy with a compulsory civic engagement is the true basis of Civilization.

Clash of the Roman and Greek ideals. The west just keeps rehashing this old argument - the fundamental argument of western civ.

When the Romans rolled into Greece their shared philosophy didn't save them. Roman might and discipline triumphed, though in defeat Greece provided a profound treasure to Rome, that is, her culture. The west is at it's best when it incorporates both modes of thought, the Roman and Hellenic.

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>>126400012
On your last point, two books, "The Geography of Nowhere" and "Home from Nowhere" by James Kunstler tell how modernism destroyed out cities and he offers some pragmatic solutions for rebuilding the traditional town and city. Those two books honestly made me a traditionalist more than anything else yet. I figured I'd put it out there for those who are interested.

>>126407151
Its almost scary how similar our stories are. The pain we had to go through. But it is necessary. For the path of hedonism will only lead to destruction. We need to build a village somewhere lads.

>>126403114
And napoleonic wars helped to build (((Rothschild)) empire...

>>126408318
We must take BACK our own villages. We haven't even tried that yet.

I think we have all the tools and resources we need. We can write a message and it can reach anyone in the world if we are good enough. That is all the power anyone needs. An idea that is good enough to propagate itself independent of any one individual or identity.

That fact is all we truly all need to get started.

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>>126406368
I'm afraid I do not know. I got them off the twitter I linked earlier I think. https://twitter.com/wrathofgnon

>>126405721
It looks like others have given some literature, but here's some links that may be relevant.

As this >>126405379 anon has recognized, I'll start with http://www.socialmatter.net/ which is a good place to be exposed to these sorts of ideas, and others, without reading a whole book. Also great podcasts. Along with that goes http://thefutureprimaeval.net/
http://thermidormag.com/

For an easy entry to some fun history (although not right wing): http://www.dancarlin.com/hardcore-history-series/

The motherlode of complicated but eye opening reading: http://moldbuggery.blogspot.com/ (start with open letter or gentle introduction.)

And for books that aren't already listed, i believe everyone owes it to themselves to read The Black Swan and Antifragile by Nassim Nicholas Taleb. They include a lot of data and ideas that will change your worldview. They are not political, but the ramifications of them on politics is huge.

And lastly, I think we can all enjoy some good self sorting with Dr Jordan B Peterson.

>>126408570
Not possible. Do you think humanity was lead to hedonism by itself? We live in the time of the Antichrist or very close to it. Very troubled times. Best way is to save who we can and start over.

>>126407815
>The west is at it's best when it incorporates both modes of thought, the Roman and Hellenic.


I guess you could say that the US today has the Roman aspect covered pretty well. Maybe we should take it upon ourselves to re-introduce the Greeks. That way we have both?

>>126407151
Pride is likely the first thing I'll have to give up. Very easy to fall into that trap especially with the acedemic gap between my childhood friends and me.

When I was referencing the loss of the moral compass I was trying to reference the adapting to others you suggested and observe the clash between them.

It seems that to adapt to others means losing my morals and to keep my morals means shallow relationships or at the worst, the loss of the relationship entirely.

Furthermore I'm not satisfied reaching far out of my age group to satisfy my social needs. At least in the context of potential wives, finding women who haven't enetered the chaos is unfeasable because they are too young, getting people recovering from the chaos is extremely unattractive because of the devalument of people through sexuality in hedonism, and finding people who havent been in it in the first place is damn near impossible.

Past that I will take your advice on leading by example, it seems persuasion and pride will never lead to growth.

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>>126406834
I think we're seeing it happen in this thread, and i've seen it happen with plenty of people, and met some others due to it. The real issue is will it get off the ground, then will it get far enough to matter, and will it get crushed out? But at least in the west, we do still have enough freedom to organize and live as we want, provided we can pay the price.

I do not know if we'll break free of our shackles. But history is a long story of people overcoming things, and new or dormant groups and ideas rising in the wake of failed ones.

But what gives me some confidence is that historically, it often does not take a huge amount of people to change something, especially if they are offering a fix to a problem. Current progressivism is an excellent example of vocal minorities pushing through major change. Even Women's suffrage was only supported by ~20% of women at the time. And take a look at the South African Broderbund(sp?) in the early 20th century for an example of a traditional community taking back it's country from a hostile elite.

>>126409635
>But at least in the west, we do still have enough freedom to organize and live as we want
See: Waco, Ruby Ridge.

>historically
The world changed with mass media. Then it changed again with mass electronic media. There's no going back until those things stop working forever.

last bump

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>>126407432
>>126407740
Thank you. I read a lot of things, but I generally need to write them out again to properly process it all.

And thank you to everyone else who has kept this thread alive. It is getting busy enough that even an effortposting autiste like me can't keep up with responses.

>>126407815
I think this is an excellent way of looking at it. Thank you.

>>126408200
Saved for my reading list.

>>126407515
I don't have a huge opinion on the specifics of what political system would be good. Right now, some sort of Monarchy or Facism looks good, and the reason is mostly the traits they share. But I'm not trying to theorize or look to much into it because I believe that what looks good when we're at step 1 isn't necessarily what we'll believe in at step 2. A couple years ago I had faith in democracy even! So I'm trying to take step 2, then I'll look at it through new eyes, file away some thoughts, and keep doing this through each of the next steps. I don't know if this will lead me to the truth, but it's better than jumping the gun.

As for the Bible, I'm afraid not. I am familiar with Christian mythos from childhood and sunday school, but I'm only just starting to get into it now in adulthood. I've been intellectually convinced of the merits of religion, and myself and a few friends are starting to take the breadpill and go to some services, but I have not reached full bible study yet. Soon I hope! I am looking forward to the Jordan B Peterson series that he's starting on it.

>>126394380

Effort thread bump gratuity

>>126403032
People are at your present age still developing, as are you, just focus on getting good at yourself.

Outside of highschool people change and find themselves when they're not under constant social pressure to be a certain way and can finally hear themselves think. you get to choose the ones you like from a much larger pool. There are good people out there.

I just want a wife and some children and to save European people.

This world could be so much better than it is today, there is so much potential if it weren't being corrupted by greedy kikes and hedonistic traitors.

It's hard to wake up from my dreams knowing society and the world will never be that beautiful.

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>>126409056
I think we can relate to others without adapting our morels to them, but it is a tricky line to walk and only goes so far, as we won't be able to fully enjoy their community activities. But I've also found that several people I had given up on suddenly changed (or seemed to by opening up) and gave me enough to work with for us to find new common ground. Some have now gotten pretty red pilled. So it's hard to know. As the general advice goes, don't reveal your powerlevel quickly!

I believe the sort of people we want to find do exist, and I think the number of them is growing. And there's many more feeling the pain of modern hedonism who are just a nudge away from getting out. Meeting older people itself is not necessarily the end goal, but old people know younger people, and can introduce you to people that are not available in other social settings. For example, the only way to meet a nice traditional girl who isn't into hedonism will be through family or a wholesome community (and not necessarily a full church) as she won't be anywhere near normal dating or socializing places or online services.

We've got to cast a wide net. And the better we can make ourselves, the better our options. Remember, most modern people are so into hedonism because the only options our current model of the world gives us to solve problems is through money, petty social status, pop spirituality, or more hedonism. I believe that we are starting to see a HUGE demand for other options, and we are the ones rediscovering the real cures for their problems. In my experience, if people see you improving yourself and your life through other means, they are going to get very curious.

>>126410035
Those events were horrible, but i'm not talking that extreme. People can get a group of friends with shared ideas that support each other and practice their values together. Even if we were, the militia movement and amount of isolationist communities in the US has only gotten larger, afaik.

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Another thought relevant to a few who have posted here:

I know a lot of us are looking to create a family and are very cynical at the possibilities of finding a woman. I'm about to turn 30 and have lost the last ~5 years to failed relationships (mainly due to following blue pilled models of how dating and relationships should work.) And others are cynical about lots of other things. So since it's getting late and the thread may die soon, let me give another thought. I have found this to be both a black pill and anti-black pill, depending on how good I'm feeling.

We're not all going to get everything we want. I have serious doubts that I'll ever meet someone worth marrying. And even if I did, I don't know if I could see past my previous experiences and trust issues. I could miss her entirely.

But this is not an argument. It may not be in the cards for us all to fix everything up and have the lives we want. But that isn't a reason not to try for them. Once you see past the bullshit, you cannot go back anyway. Even if we cannot achieve everything we want for ourselves, we can still do everything we can for the next generation, even if they aren't our own children.

We are not mere individuals. We are each part of a bigger story and a longer lineage. Did the generations hit by the Black Death just give up because they couldn't have the lives they wanted? How cynical do you think those guys were? But they rebuilt so that things could continue.

If i may borrow a concept from Scott Adams (who I forgot to put on my reading list), if we think in terms of goals, we're screwed. If our goal is to save western civilization in time to get married and have a good life, you won't make it (cont)...

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>>126412872

But if we think and see in systems, then we can do something. We can each make things a little better by changing how we live. Then we can work together and improve things for larger and larger groups, and for the future. And even though I can't say I have faith in God yet, I do have faith that we can each achieve satisfaction within our lives, even if overall victory is a long way off. And I know that no amount of drugs and casual sex will fill the void of honest effort, regardless of what we may suffer.

Suffering is also not an argument.

And that brings us back to tradition, and back to satisfaction vs mere pleasure. Because tradition is full of systems. It is our starting guide for habit, ritual, and practice.

And when you look at it that way,/pol/, we're all going to make it.

Yo i love all of this can someone please screen cap

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>>126408893
A couple more for the reading list:

Excellent in depth articles that will introduce you to more authors and some brutal history:
https://radishmag.wordpress.com/

You should know this one /pol/
http://blog.dilbert.com/

I came to traditionalism and history through rationalism (and then anti-rationalism) and political thought overall, not through religion, etc. So most of my reading material has been reactionary political stuff attempting to explain and give historical context and why we have the issues we do. And now I'm moving into the wider realm of studying history and embracing tradition and past culture. So working backwards in time for the most part.

>>126414292
Are you a big peterson fan?

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>>126407151

I have lurked for a very long time. I believed in my heart that I would never post on /pol/, I have never posted anywhere bar a few outlets.

I told myself there was no reason to post, because I would never truly reach anyone. I would not ignite change here. I was engulfed in a form of nihilism, that the only way I would ever find those like me would be to mold them out of people I could physically interact with and change someone. Why would I waste my time whispering into an infinitely vast chamber of differing people and opinions, all doing the same?

You and I are the same. This is the rare threads I wait patiently for that occasionally resurface. You've proven to me that people don't have to change to bring value like this, that there are already those that possess it. And I should find them and seek to learn from the wisdom they offer. If that makes any sense.


I don't know. I feel I'm going to regret this post, as I am obsessively caught up in improving myself so that I may be as helpful as you are, and the other Anons here are, to others at some point - that I am frustrated to be compelled to get involved, as there's still that side of me that believes our efforts here are in vain.


I am documenting these posts as I read them. This discourse will be remembered, and can always be continued.

>>126412959
Just popping in to say that quote isnt actually from Heraclitus

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>>126414792
I have been greatly enjoying watching his lectures. I would not say that I agree with it all, but I don't disagree with much either. He's attempting to put forward a model or framework that people can work with. Sometimes there are holes. And it's really easy to poke more of course.

But I don't think that undermines the meaning or sentiment much. We're moving past mere ideas and transferable memes to full models of how the world works. No model is going to be fully accurate, and it doesn't need to be. It just needs to help us navigate.

The big error of rationalism that I eventually clued in to is that people are not rational creatures. Now, that's something we've all heard a million times, but it didn't mean much until I'd absorbed enough to understand the bigger idea:

> The world is more complicated than we can process
> We only need a interact with a tiny portion of it in order to succeed
> We navigate by making simpler models of the world, like a stylized overlay, that includes only what we need
> This prevents stress and distraction
> Sometimes this gets us in trouble because we miss important information.
> But mostly, it lets us focus on what's important and get on with our lives.

We live inside mental models and stories. This is a good thing because it's more efficient. Things seem to work out a lot better when we're living inside the same ones, just like an office does better when all the computers are the same operating system. Over time, we've evolved and refined different models, and enshrined them within our traditions and past institutions in order to pass them on and share them.

Our current model/story sucks and is destroying us. Together, we've all been trying to make new ones. This includes all the ideas about shared memes, worldviews, etc. Peterson is one of the few people who seems to get this and be talking about it, although I don't know if he'd use the terms I just did (Scott Adams does.)

Cont...

>>126414905
Evidence the tradition meme is an effective red pill

We need to form a decentralized political party, one with shared core beliefs and a respect for regimentation. Once a month we should assemble in our independent communities and promote something new and meaningful.

>>126414792
>>126415871

(Cont)

The value of any given model of reality is in how well it helps people function and interface with reality itself. So not everything works. You can take out unneeded data, but you can't deny real forces of nature (what NRX often refers to as GNON - Nature or Nature's God, because does it matter which it really is?)

So when I listen to Peterson, I'm not really trying to judge if he's right or wrong. I'm attempting to try on or test drive the different way of seeing the world that he's pushing, while also filtering for pot holes his model may not cover. (to some extent, i think we all try this with most things we view). And when I do, it has made me happy and optimistic, and feel like i'm connected to something bigger, and that there is a future ahead of me. So i've found it to be an antidote to nihilism if nothing else.

But your mileage may vary!

>>126415804
Good catch. That's what I get for saving images off 4chan!

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>>126414905
Thank you Anon.

Would you be willing to make a new thread tomorrow? I'll be at work and only able to phone post. Do it before you start to regret. And if you do start to, then that's all the more reason to.

It's okay if it's not good and if it dies fast. Just put a few sentences of something you feel is important, or grab an image or screen cap from any of the sources linked.

I don't think any of the ideas here are new, and have probably been better stated by greater men than any of us. I'm posting like this because it helps me think and cement ideas, so it's kind of selfish really. But I think the proof of so much of this stuff is that it does resonate with people. There's still enough Western Civ floating around, or left from when we were younger, that we can recognize deeper truths when we see them.

Progressivism has tried to make everyone into their own philosopher, and sells that as freedom. But it doesn't work because we're not really capable of that, and we weren't designed for it, and good god is it a waste of time. So while progressivism gives us all the freedom to have our own ideas, it also leaves us in the state that if we don't, we're really screwed. It's a freedom that most cannot utilize to any effect means, and that just makes it a burden. I can't count h ow much time and energy I've lost trying to figure out the world and what to think. But I was forced into it because the current models don't work. I would be very happy to take an older working model, flaws and all, just so that we can all get on with things! In other words, I think we'd all be better off if we could just all become oblivious normies from some point before the 20th Century. It'd at least be a better starting point.

And we can do it to some extent. We don't need t keep reinventing the wheel. The great old ideas are still out there. We can take them out, dust them off, and see if it helps. We each just need a few people do to it with, and that's a start.

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Great thread.

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>>126409635
>>126416132

> I think we're seeing it happen in this thread, and i've seen it happen with plenty of people, and met some others due to it. The real issue is will it get off the ground, then will it get far enough to matter, and will it get crushed out?
> We need to form a decentralized political party, one with shared core beliefs and a respect for regimentation. Once a month we should assemble in our independent communities and promote something new and meaningful.

This will likely die again as it has countless times here in the past. These threads have always been great for reflection, bouncing off ideas, and introspection.

They have never been cause for immediate change, beyond a few anons in a personal perspective.

Continuing . . .
>>126417794
> I don't think any of the ideas here are new, and have probably been better stated by greater men than any of us. I'm posting like this because it helps me think and cement ideas, so it's kind of selfish really. But I think the proof of so much of this stuff is that it does resonate with people. There's still enough Western Civ floating around, or left from when we were younger, that we can recognize deeper truths when we see them.

These ideas aren't new. They have been shared in different ways. However, what would be new would be a real means to contextual change. A movement that is tangible, something organized. Discords have been made for groups intent on making these changes in their lives, and organizing, and they have always died.

A decentralized approach that continues anonymity would probably be the best step - but without constantly attacking these ideas, opinions, and throwing value at one another as an established group - without doing these things, without fully investing into an organized effort to "create something", it will die. Because people become complacent, which isn't inherently wrong, it just means... things fall apart.

(Continued -->)

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Have a bump for this good thread.

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>>126418775

(Continuation of previous post)

What is needed is to truly light the fire and take the leap. A few steps is good, especially at first, but someone has to really jump here. This needs to become something substantial, a real movement.

What we need after a decentralized line of communication and an interior group formed and relationships built upon -- is to LARP together some property. If anons want to spark a movement, they need a base of operations and a way to truly commit and support the "cause" they are looking for. To model together a society of their own, a micro-state, at which they can build upon and expand into other communities.

LARPing together a Kekistan seems to be a realistic way of forming the model society that anons here want. Except no one's ever done it.

I think through fun, healthy, morally good activities done in a regimented, decentralized but unified way would create the critical mass. It would have to be a centrist approach in order for normies to get involved.

on JRE with Peterson they talked about how things like Yoga and Crossfit are new religions for people because it brings meaning and order. We should do something very similar. Combine these healthy activities with explicit civic (shared) doctrine.

I can imagine that happening sooner rather than later

I appreciate what kekistan represents, but I think a firm respect of rule #1 is needed. No one will take anything seriously if they know it comes from this place.

All LARPing should be a new manifestation with all real roots pointing towards history and not this place.

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>>126418775
>>126419184

I think you are entirely correct. I am peripherally aware that there are some groups trying to organize and so such things. And of course there are more mainstream ones, such as Identity Europa. They aren't doing what we're talking about here, but they are a step towards it. They are creating infrastructure and a movement that is several steps down a path that could lead to what we want to see ultimately.

There's going to be a lot of false starts and initial failures. People will try and fail. If you look at the history of Socialism, you can find examples of people attempting to implement it's ideas going back at least 500 years. They all failed. And then WW1 and the Russian Revolution came and BAM! Socialism all over the place, and still going strong.

I don't think we have to deal with that long of a timescale. We do have the advantage that we're trying to bring back something natural that has been well established in the past, not trying to force a new system that runs counter to natural law.

Sharing the ideas is a good way to prepare and prime people though. And they can convince people. It may be the simplest and lowest form of groundwork, but it is still groundwork, and it's the best I could do on a saturday night while working!

If I was a leftist, I'd call it raising awareness. But I'm not, so I'll call it regurgitating the ideas of greater men.

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>>126419723
I actually meant to say Generation Identity in France, not Identity Europa. But both are examples of groups attempting things along these lines. Although Identity Europa is certainly not mainstream.

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>>126419723
> fixed that image for you

I'm not particularly aware of these groups. Identity Evropa seems very active and their whole... poster aesthetic... is nice.

I understand the importance of promoting awareness of an idea(s), discussing them, and simulating them through discussion in a metaphysical sense - as it allows for further development of the idea as well as bringing new people in - but. I guess I'm just hung up on the technical side of it all, the details in action.


For some personal context, I was in a bad place before. I was a normal kid. I was fairly popular, good-looking, played sports, had decent grades, loved JROTC, etc. All the stuff cool kids enjoy. And then I got really sick and spent nearly two years testing for various conditions and cancers, and ended up being diagnosed with postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome at the end of it all. I couldn't drive, I couldn't go out, I slept all the time.

I got pulled out of high school and then eventually decided on my own terms that I was done with it all. And then some time ago my symptoms continued to improve, and eventually I reached remission/prognosis after it had run most of its course. My last visit to the cardiologist was last summer, haven't needed to go since, and have been working out regularly to control lingering tachycardia symptoms.

I ended up playing a lot of video games, losing my friends, and getting exposed to /pol/ and all corners of the internet. It was probably the worst and best thing that ever happened to me.

And things are different now. I'm a whole new person. I'm not a helpless sick kid anymore. I don't work a normal job, I make good money trading cryptocurrencies. I'm extremely young and will be able to buy my own home with minimal debt within the year.

I'm more impatient than ever to become a part of something greater than myself. Is this the answer? I'm not sure.

Maybe I'm too idealistic, naive, and impatient.

Maybe it's because I lack any sense of family or community, or purpose, that I feel this way, that I feel I need this. All I know is that JROTC had some of the greatest moments of my life, and I want to apply that camaraderie to the real world again without it meaning going out to get my head blown off for someone who doesn't give a shit about me.

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>>126421860
>>126422087

That sounds very rough. I am glad you are through the worst of the condition.

I don't have much of a backstory to share beyond the usual teenage angst and isolation followed by years of failing to "find myself", but at least I have no debt.

I think that we, and likely many of the people in similar situations reading this, are in a prime situation to start new things and experiment. It's like playing dice: call a number and if you roll it, you win. If you don't, you die. But if you don't roll at all, you also die, just slower. We aren't facing actual death, but the prospect of continuing to live as we have so far doesn't feel much better.

I can't say much other than keep doing what you are and keep alert for opportunities. And I suppose the obvious of not to be too impatient. I know those are both platitudes, not advice.

For myself, I've always figured that I just need to keep learning until I know what to do. So I'm doing that. And I still don't know exactly, but I'm starting to know generally. And that feels a lot better than a couple years ago!

At this point I'm losing my focus and just rambling. Time to sleep. Thank you again everyone, and good luck out there.

>>126422650
Goodnight, anon. I appreciate the thread.

>>126394380
I am not satisfied with life at all.
I just don't see any future for myself or anything to strive for. Nothing. There is nothing happening here, there is no purpose.
Most of my time I spend online where I am completely bored, then I go out and walk around a bit, then go back online to try and distract myself until I fall asleep. That's my daily routine.

There is nothing going on in my life. All this talk about muh civilization, muh tradition. What civilization? What tradition? I am completely alone. Last time I had a friend was about 7 years ago. I felt like I had a purpose back then, I wanted to get my friends into politics, but it never went anywhere and I was left hanging. Since then all I've done is earned some money so I can survive. My life is completely pointless. I feel like my cat who just sits around all day like an asshole, sleeps the whole day and eats. I am starting to question whether or not it's even healthy or desirable to strive for more. Why don't we just act like every single other animal on the planet, and simply live our lives until we die? Why do we need to go trough all this shit and stress out over purpose and something larger than ourselves?

>>126422650
Yeah, good luck. Thank you for the thread.

We'll see what happens with time.

Good thread.

>>126397008
i'll bump because interesting

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>>126423227
>>126423227
Only you may answer most of those questions for yourself, from personal experience I've found that guidance from others rarely helps. It has to be you, and only you for it to matter.

If there is no muh civilization, or muh tradition, perhaps that's why it's worth creating it. Create something where there is nothing. Find purpose where there is none.

Or continue to do nothing.

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>>126423227
>Why don't we just act like every single other animal on the planet
Because man is a tribal animal and we today are nothing more than atomized individuals in an unnatural environment.

And I agree with you. In today's world it is almost impossible to do anything to change things. Half measures won't work and with today's laws you can't really live communally off grid. You still have to send your kids to high school, you still have to pay property taxes(ergo you still have to earn currency) etc. And even if you do manage to form an off-grid community somehow and persevere, most likely your children will not continue couldn't. They'd still be poisoned by modernity and they'd still need to find mates outside of your community and somehow manage to convince them to give up modern conveniences to live a simple, harsh life.

At the end of the day, for us as isolated individuals the most we can hope for is a life of sobriety and simplicity, living in the modern world without being a part of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drXaZ_kEYhI

>>126394380
Good thread, have a bump

I wish I could fix the thing in my heart that always drags me down. Then I end up sitting at home browsing here, avoiding duties I know I have.

>>126423879
There is nothing to create. All I can do is go work another soul crushing job and spend money on useless crap.
At my last work place I tried to engage with people, see if I can create or participate in some kind of a community, make change. No one had any interest. Best I could do was finding a few drunkards who like company when drinking.

I can't relate to anything you fags are saying. All this talk about civilization, how we should maintain traditions, reading philosophy books etc, none of it applies to my life.
It's just intellectual circlejerking over concepts.
None of you are speaking in real concrete terms. It's just these vague general talking points that don't lead anywhere.
It's all so vague and devoid of any real world application. I could read Atlas Shrugged, Democracy: the god that failed and Culture of Critique all day, but it leads me nowhere.

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>>126424054

Half measures won't work, yes, but there's still a great deal of opportunity today. You can homeschool children or enroll them in one of the dozens of online-based high schools growing across the country. And these online schools/classroom environments will only continue to improve in time, as well as grow into further options.

Does anyone ever consider how much of an impact they would have on the change they would like to enact if they had X amount of money? Not a ridiculous amount of money, but if someone was relatively wealthy.

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>>126424608
See the last line of my post above, m8. That's the only certain path we have left.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8B-b1N56-A

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>>126394380

>Our solution must be to improve ourselves. Start living better, even without permission, approval,or agreement. Power can only come to those who are able to wield it. Become worthy.

Solzhenitsyn's 1978 commencement address at Harvard is a gem. Fascinating perspective & worth reading. The Fate of Empires and Search for Survival by Sir John Glubb is also good.

Thanks for your links, anon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuVG8SnxxCM

http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/alexandersolzhenitsynharvard.htm

http://www.rexresearch.com/glubb/glubb-empire.pdf

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>>126424716
>homeschool
In your case. Here it is illegal(and likewise in Latvia's case, I presume).

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>>126400012

>>126424876
>decline of courage
I read something similar from some of the Syrian figthers I follow on twitter. There was also once a legit syrian fighter anon (timestamp and all) who said that people who go over there to fight are generally useless, because they lack courage. Only ex-military, or para military seem to function within what is expected of them there, but that even he himself saw some of the women just rush into battle with no hesitation because that was what they needed, whereas some people whined in the lines behind that they were scared.

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>>126425039

>>126424888

ah. right, the world isn't all burgers.

>>126424888
I don't think it's illegal here, it just wouldn't be very practical.
I live in the middle of nowhere. I would have to radically change my entire life to be able to afford homeschooling and to move to a city where I have access to home schooling.
It's a lot of effort, which would be fine if the effort was worth it. I don't think it's worth it.

To center my entire life on trying to secure a future for some woman and her children sounds insane. That's how my father lived. He would bust his ass 24/7 for nothing, just to get berated by his wife and raising children who want nothing to do with him. I consider his life a complete waste. To go down that same route when I know what it means, it doesn't sound appealing to me.

>>126424608
seems like you have a terminal case of nihilims.

Do you know your "big five" test, anon? Some of what Peterson says is junk but one thing I often apply is to look at people's scores and see where they score high. That's also where your value structure lies, and those traits influence the way you perceive the world.

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>>126425327
>How long until
Not within our lifetimes most likely.

>>126425451
You never know. I heard 2025 would be a pivotal year as far as resources are concerned and population overflow, especially here in Europe. Something something MIT calculations.

I sort of live with the impression and idea that at some point fighting will erupt on a much larger scale. The world feels like a boil of pus ready to burst.

>>126425376
I don't subscribe to nihilism. I simply dislike the structure of the world and I don't see myself fitting into it.
There is a lack of concrete goals and answers.
I don't see my life going anywhere. I've tried the same things everyone else is doing, but I am not feeling it.

The only times I ever felt like I belong and I've been content with life is in times of disaster or when something goes wrong and I have to fix it, like when I have to break up a fight or someone fucked up at work so we have to come together and brainstorm a way to fix it.
Outside of those scenarios I am just existing.

>>126394380
LOL THIS NIGGER THINKS THE WORLD HAS A CHANCE

lemme let you in on a secret.. once the elect are called into the clouds, there will be misery and death like the world has never seen, or will see again.

gonna laugh at your illusion of grandeur one last time... HAHAHAHAHA

but seriously, repent, seek the LORD with all your heart, mind and soul. Then we can upgrade to our PERMANENT place in the heavenlies, not this meme heaven we call earth

>>126425910
Try the LORD, who created the heavens and the earth, who called you by name before the foundation of time, and brought you forth to choose life, or to choose death. Either one is eternal, by the way.

>>126426536
I am not schizophrenic.

>>126426617
but you are dead, apparently. Ill remember you

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>>126403124
>civic engagement is the true basis of civilization
>>126419190
>subscribe to a civic doctrine
why do i think you arent white. you also seem to like that kekistan cancer. did you just get here from reddit a month ago?

>>126394380
Life is shit. I'm 18 and want to die. Humanity is dogshit and the quicker that plague called civilization falls, the better.

>>126426701
Hail Satan you faggot

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>>126423227

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>>126425311

>>126394380
Is the civilization just against the institution of marriage? And is there anything a person can do in individual level?

I have to be exceptionally rich to afford my childs tuition fee and shit,his schooling,and in this kind of status quo you can't expect him to be obedient dude who will listen to every word you say as a good goy,since this is ((current year)) and everybody is free to do whatever they like,what happens if he turns gay? What happens if you get a modern wymn as daughter,do you just see her fucking random dudes everyday? again the status quo comes in and you can't say her the otherwise because she will think its medieval period where christian girls were a thing.

And we haven't considered the Bitch we'll be marrying,what if she chimped out? What if she dumped us because we stopped her from being in current year? What if she didn't found me interesting anymore? The world is cascading into a affirmative action because of the victimization of rape complex,it became such a heinous crime that your life can end up with a scream or accusation.

cont

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>>126427689

>>126427870
Given the incentive of the girls to have a work and be independent wymn,I don't think many will opt for marriage,given they have to work their ass of to keep the child in place and shit,why would anyone want that? Easy way out.

And the last and the foremost,we the men of this generation have failed in particular to save this common culture and institution of marriage,I and you are here because our ancestor followed a specific set of blue print,and it worked,but somehow the same blueprint is mocked now.

We,literally the boys who are aware of this problem and are considered square peg in the round hole in this society are the savior of the human race,we are a bunch of privilege demography who get to know the intentions of the HITLER,his pursuit to save the world from the Jew conspiracy,now if all of us didn't turn into Hitler,only there won't be any more cultures left,but the permanent enslavement of Human race will set in motion,there will be no Berlin wall because there will be no more freedom anywhere left in the world.

Where will you escape when there will be a Soviet UNION around the world? Will our descendants implying any,would look at us? We merely exchanged the slavery of human race for being politically correct.

It's like a supernatural aligned us with this truth,and the decision lies on the bunch of NEETs and autists and they will be left to judge the progress of human civilization,this is such a big burden which literally kills me everyday,inch by inch the roadmap to the Jewish domination of world is taking place and we are doing nothing but screeching in this image board.

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>>126425311

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>>126427102
“I want you to look at the birth of a miracle: the United States of America. If it is ever proper for men to kneel, we should kneel when we read the Declaration of Independence. The concept of individual rights is so prodigious a feat of political thinking that few men grasp it fully – and 200 years have not been enough for other countries to understand it.

But this is the concept to which we owe our lives—the concept which made it possible for us to bring into reality everything of value that any of us did or will achieve or experience.."

"If a man dies fighting for his own freedom, it is not a sacrifice: he is not willing to live as a slave; but it is a sacrifice to the kind of man who’s willing. If a man refuses to sell his convictions, it is not a sacrifice, unless he is the sort of man who has no convictions.

“When I see the city from my window - no, I don't feel how small I am - but I feel that if a war came to threaten this, I would throw myself into space, over the city, and protect these buildings with my body.”

Even Ayn Rand would have saved "the city", and the Constitution, even with her own life.

____

"We don't know how lucky we are." And the Cuban stopped and said, "How lucky you are! I had someplace to escape to." In that sentence he told us the entire story. If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth. And this idea that government is beholden to the people, that it has no other source of power except to sovereign people, is still the newest and most unique idea in all the long history of man's relation to man.

This is the issue of this election. Whether we believe in our capacity for self-government or whether we abandon the American revolution and confess that a little intellectual elite in a far-distant capital can plan our lives for us better than we can plan them ourselves." Reagan 1964.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w86QhV7whjs

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>>126424716
>that pic
>"dont have dreams, goy"
to quote nietzche: "by my love and hope i beseech you! do not throw away the hero in your inner soul! hold holy your highest hopes!" that picture even claims that old people serve regret. why would that be? perhaps because they fuck around in the middle ages after giving up on their dreams?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmGqG3grTrg

>>126427870
>is civilization against the institution of marriage
well it is a good thing, so jews are pretty against it. pic related

>>126394380
"We" don't need to do anything.
No need to beat your brains over problems with no rational solution.
Failure to disengage from problems with no solution is futile and suicidal.
Relax it will take care of itself.

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>>126427901
>Given the incentive of the girls to have a work and be independent wymn
I like this thread. But I see this being brought up again and again. Listen. Women have always worked. Them working is not the problem. Giving them the right to vote is. Because they can't help but vote for a bigger welfare state, and then take the useless jobs in that welfare state. Even in Ancient Athens who warned the spartans that they were giving women to much power, women still worked. They had plenty of duties. Just as an example. In Denmark, women are now 70% of workers in the public sector. It's just a massive transfer of wealth from men to women. Now with modern technology(invented by men) housework is easier. No reason for a woman to not have a part time job if she wants to. But since men maintain civilization, there is no need to hire them in the public sector, since the public sectors main focus should be maintaining civilization and only men can do that.

>>126394380

If you're really interested to learn more about the rise and fall of civilizations throughout history, I'd recommend 2 series:

The decline and fall of the roman empire, by Gibbon
Universal history, by Tytler

Both of these book series taught me a great deal about history and gave me a different interpretation to contemporary problems for I've come to realisation that history truly repeats itself albeit in a different manner.

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>>126428262
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zyr9OqNFi-o

>>126397008
you hit the right nail with this one, nice post

>>126394447

Everyone is already repeating those traditions in new forms... baka

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>>126428262

>>126405200
Unironically LARPing. Brilliant.

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>>126394447
>Go back at l00 years, as far back as Ancient Greece if you like
There is a letter by Marcus Tullius Cicero, dated 18 December 50 B.C. This letter was written to his friend Atticus on the eve of the Roman Civil War. He wrote as follows: "The political situation alarms me deeply, and so far I have found scarcely anybody who is not for giving Caesar what he demands rather than fighting it out." To explain the situation in brief, G. Julius Caesar had demanded the right to circumvent the Roman constitution, to break laws with impunity, to extend his command over a large army by using that army to threaten the Senate of Rome. "And why should we start standing up to him now?" asked Cicero. The next day he wrote to Atticus: "We should have stood up to him [Caesar] when he was weak, and that would have been easy. Now we have to deal with eleven legions...." Though he hated the idea of civil war, the only course, said Cicero, was to follow "the honest men or whoever may be called such, even if they plunge."

And who were these "honest men"? "I don't know of any," wrote Cicero in the same letter. "There are honest individuals, but [there are no honest groups]." Then he asked rhetorically if the Senate was honest, or the tax farmers, or the capitalists. None were frightened of living under an autocracy, he lamented. The capitalists, especially, "never have objected to that, so long as they were left in peace." But civil war occurred nonetheless, because people are not free to be dishonest forever. They must admit to certain responsibilities, and oppose the advance of evil. The previous inclination to look away, to do nothing, to shrug off responsibility, proves in the end to be no more than a delaying tactic. They attempted to put off calamity, Cicero suggested, and made it all the more calamitous. That is all.

http://www.financialsense.com/contributors/jr-nyquist/standing-up-when-it-is-too-late

>>126425563
True, no one knows for sure. I am also inclined to think that it is near, but...
"Now about the times and seasons, brothers, we do not need to write to you. 2For you are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. "

This is a great great GREAT thread.

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>>126428262

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>>126429156

>At least I still have the Constitution

> I know, right? Just look at my flag.. :/

____


“And hence when by their foolish thirst for reputation they have created among the masses an appetite for gifts and the habit of receiving them, democracy in its turn is abolished and changes into a rule of force and violence. For the people, having grown accustomed to feed at the expense of others and to depend for their livelihood on the property of others, as soon as they find a leader who is enterprising but is excluded from the houses of office by his penury, institute the rule of violence; and now uniting their forces massacre, banish, and plunder, until they degenerate again into perfect savages and find once more a master and monarch.” - The Histories 6.9.7-9, Polybius (ca. 200–118 BC)

>>126414905
People hear you. Whether we truly listen is another thing, but don't regret your posts. Even if they only serve to help you and only you organize your thoughts and your philosophical outlook, that's a step in the right direction. We all need to sort ourselves out.

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>>126414905
I've been waiting for people like you to post and create threads like this forever. I thought this place would help, and it has, but most of the threads here are shit. Most of the replies are shit. Every now and then though, you get a thread like this, one worth responding to.

>>126414905
Those who wait for something good, never have to wait forever. Also documenting everything. This is why I come here.

>>126402048
Very much this

>>126415871
>>126416466
Hey, good on you, you managed to summarize in a very brief manner what Peterson is all about and what's difficult to explain about him to other people.

So far I do the same, I try to test-drive this mode of being. I think I need to tweak it a little, because responsibility is one thing but I am very very open so I need novelty of ideas, and probably beauty more than the next person to feel like my life makes sense. But it's good to stop you from sinking into that nihilistic feel.

>>126425910
>The only times I ever felt like I belong and I've been content with life is in times of disaster or when something goes wrong and I have to fix it, like when I have to break up a fight or someone fucked up at work so we have to come together and brainstorm a way to fix it.
My happiest time was when my back was most against the wall. I thrived physically and intellectually. Being pressured to hone my abilities or perish.
>>126402425
>Technology has likely changed this too much. But there are many other ways for us to compete, experiment, and grow.

I'm uncertain about this. Think about it. Hitler never used chemical weapons despite total war. He commited suicide and asked for every german, man, woman and child to fight to death. But he still did not use a weapon of mass destruction. I think it is possible we can return to conventional warfare with a global collective understanding that we do not use nbc.

>>126429464
>"Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed"

We were supposed to have been taught the philopshy of freedom so that we could recognize its usurpation.

Because we lacked diligence we will now struggle

>>126432884
Freedom is an ambiguous thing. When has anyone truly been free? Free from what? Our very nature constrains us.

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>>126403032

>they are either beta with great values, beta with no values, or alpha with no values. Worst of all no one is curious, they just bite into the hooks all around them.

You experience “totem pole syndrome”-- the higher you go, the lonelier it gets. That's why the air is so rarified. You should join an Exec Support Group. :)

All joke aside, you should learn to value people for their qualities, for what is good in them, not for their weaknesses.

Imagine you were born in 1900, living in a town like this one. Or worse. And the World Wars are coming along. So stop whining and enjoy.

>>126415804
from who?

>>126423227
Right in the feels

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>>126394447
How can i trust when everyone around me is a fucking incompetant idiot ?

Before anything can be done this world must be cleansed from weakness this can only be achieved through trickery as it is obvious that weakling won't vote themselves out of existence.

>>126437391
You lead by example;

There's no point in posting on an imageboard that your are going to remove faggots or something similar, because that's not how the world tends to work. If your mind is sharp and you aren't afraid to speak your truth, then it will get better.

I however don't believe the political system as it is in place now will help much.

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>>126432884
Look, i just wanna know when you dickheads are gonna shut the grid down, suck of fucking waiting for the other shoe to drop

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>>126423227
You could be in the same exact situation you are in now and then have you legs violently sawed off. It can always be worse anon.
>being a little bitch
Stop it. You are better than that and you know it

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>>126394380
>>126394447
>Let's effort post
>blackpill
>Fight Club thesis
>>>/t/rs

>>126440536
>being this much of a fag
Raus, this thread is great

>>126440536
Read b4 autistingly posting

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>>126440694
>>126440790
y u mad?

This is one of the rare threads that keeps my faith in our future.

God bless you all.

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Best thread iv ever read.

So here's my sum of it all

Need a Hellenic society with a united philosophy centered around christian morals. A roman defense and justice system that acknowledges race and gender as biological realities. A homogenous community of Noble ones.

Dare I say... Neo Rhodesians

its the old stoicism quote
be strong enough to know what can change
be wise enough to know what you cannot
focus on your family your friends I've never been happier than with my wife (we've been married for 2 years now)