AnCap Natsoc Alliance General /ANAG/

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>>126309784
me on the left

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>>126309784
me on the reich

>>126310034
Libertarians like immigration though. Free movement of people is open boarders.

>>126309784
The next step is allying muslims to exterminate feminism, Amirite?

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>>126309784

Fine by me.

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>le gay snake maymay
you are all an embarassment, who only care about posting memes but get served hard in public, kek

bumpf

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>>126310034
Me on the middle.

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This is the world you want to make reality, lads.

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r8 this map

Why would AnCaps be against free movement of people?

>>126311997
They wouldn't, /pol/ just wants to be nazi without the social stigma, so they redefine ideologies.

>>126311924
Yes please

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>>126311997
>>126312105

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Congratulations for the most retarded post on 4chan today.

>>126312225
>ancap
>anarcho-capitalism
>anarchy
>move government doing more

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>>126309784
seems like a natural alliance to me

>>126310175
nah mate that's kiked subversion

>>126311924
>Sweden
>France
>Fascist

...

>Canada
>Liberatrian

and

>Latin America
>Not Socialist hellhole

It's a pipedream....

>>126309784
Anarchist and authoritarian alliance, huh?

>>126312446
But they'd be free to buy property and move into the country that way.

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>>126311997
>Arabs, blacks and communists = people
kek

>>126311924
why werent the poos rightfully marched to their deaths?

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>>126312607

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>>126310175
>>126311997
nah m8, by freedom we mean the freedom to close our [private] borders. Discrimination will be the norm in our property, and degenerates will not be given entry. Trespassers will be physically removed

>>126312742
So no actual retort to what I said then?

>>126312769
And what are you going to do with those who become degenerates over time?
Because the only way to stop it from happening is to live under authoritarian rule.

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>>126312794
A covenant society bars unwanted people from entering your society. There is no national state borders in the sense that the state cannot own that land, but private property rights encourage the removal of human trash from your property and community.

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I have said this many times before, ancaps take the left, natsocs take the right,

>>126312769
>>126313066
Yeah, so you'd have the ability to remove them from where you live, in a tiny locality, but they'd gain access to the country by people who's views on letting them in differ from yours. Is this some weird meta plot to allow mass immigration?

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>>126312105
THIS

>>126311924
India should be private property desu.
I don't think the indian vermin should have human rights, there's way too fucking many of them

>>126313174
I'm in

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In.

>>126312794
who says we would even sell them property?

you cannot buy what isn't for sale. Only non-degenerates will be given offers and economics opportunity

>>126313016
There is great incentive not to be a degenerate, employment being a great example as discriminatory policies make degenerate hiring difficult. but if they choose to continue acting against their interest then we continue making it harder and harder for them to sustain themselves. Restrictions, ostracization, and penalties leads them to self-filter from suicide or self-imposed starvation.

Why waste a bullet when they will purchase it themselves with their own money? in extreme cases, physical removal via helicopter ride is always an option.

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Drop ypur best yelow pepe memes.

>>126313700
I'm not saying you would, even though I doubt you own any property anyone would care to buy. I'm saying others within your country would. So your political philosophy would allow for a mass flood of immigrants because you'd be handing the degenerates in your own society that power.

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>>126313305
ancapistan is not a nation in the traditional sense but a collection of thousands of independent and competing communities each with their own legal and ethical codes. Due to the nature of this, beneficial structures such as the church and family are encouraged, as after all, how could any leftist culture compete in a free market with such a structure? They could not.

Authoritarianism is a false solution, where the very nature of the state and it's removal of property rights encourages degeneration - for when the law is immoral, people are faced with the choice to either disobey it or comply to false morals - an impossible choice for any moral citizen. Furthermore, the rise of the welfare state and any form of wealth redistribution has been the cause of the decay or the traditional family: with it, no longer are people dependant on their family or community for a 'safety net'.

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>>126312446
Seems really convincing, schlomo.

>>126314010
>ayn rand
>friedman
>not shit

>>126313700
You don't get it do you?
A society with ANY freedom combined with employment, and the means to aquire goods will lead to degeneration over time.

And (((an)))cap is completely incomatible with any sort of authoritarianism, and that includes NatSoc.

>>126313305
the beauty of it is that localities will merge and share policies, meaning conservative and anti-immigration covenants stick together. Initially a few liberal covenants may exist, but with no greater tax base to sustain welfare and leftist policies, those would quickly turn into detroits as the successful people leave once it turns shitty -- lowering the value of the land to be purchased and reintegrated with proper policies.

The endgame is very similar to what you would have in fascism, only the means is different. No, the means does not involve violence (unless in self-defense and physical removal) but to outjew the jew themselves with a slow dagger down their throat instead of a sword to their skull. One method is harsh, historically tainted with a bad reputation. The other, yet unknown and ripe for fruition

>>126314003
There's nothing there that's a response to what I said, but it's not really a surprise that you lot haven't got any independent thoughts.

>>126314279
>Wouldn't they just take up everywhere else in the country?
>Explain why not
>'you didn't respond to my post'

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>>126314243
So you nat soctards don't trust your own people and think that you need big goverment to control them like sheep?

>>126314508
Yes, people like you is a fine example of that.

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>>126314587
I think that someone needs a helicopter ride eh?

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>>126313590
If people want at least one country where ancaps and natsocs can live together then that can be accepted.

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>>126314738
>helicopter ride
"GOMMIES EVERYWHERE"
(You) >>126313397

Reminder that natsocs are not friends of any (((capitalists))) and that ancaps will get helicopter rides

>>126313907
you must understand that it is no longer a singular "country" in the traditional sense, and that no, we would not be handing a singular "society" a mass flood of immigrants

There will be a few detroits, I am not denying that, but you are also not responsible for them anymore. As a long-term system, these detroits will fail by sheer economic recklessness, and the free covenants will expand using their corpses

as far as ethnic identities go, they have the freedom to stick together and be as restrictive and discriminatory as they want. They will form large covenants, and overpower the culturally self-destructive and weaker people reliant on welfare

>>126314243
as I've said, these degenerates prune themselves out over time as a product of their own degeneracy unsupported by a state or welfare system

Purity is still achieved in the long run

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>>126309784
only if we agree everyone has to be white

>>126309784
>Anarcho anything
Yeah no

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>>126315095
Of course dude.

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>Not a single yelow pepe in this thread
What a shame

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>>126309784
Hail victory, NAPies. How are my Hoppean brothers today?

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Anarcho capitalism means: "I want everyone to leave me alone until the fourth Reich comes"


National Socialism is the ultimate redpill

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>>126314118
How could you support ethno-nationalism as an ancap? The nation-state is a coercive, collectivist institution and goes entirely against what an ancap would support.

We need a new uprising...

>>126313174
>>126316398
All we have to do is get along until we both dominate the world.

>>126316621
It's hard, I like the idea but Anarchy really gets to me because it reminds me of Antifa..

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Bump

>>126315095
That's the only way any of this would work anyway.

>>126316759
They hate commies though.We need a strong alliance if we are both going to survive.

>>126317010
Just one thing, the black, it just gets to me.
Otherwise I'm in

>>126311924
The middle east becomes a fallout game. Love it.

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>>126309784
Physically remove communists when?

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Fuck off with this NatSoc alliance shit. Ancapism is diametrically opposed to fascism. Just call yourself a Nazi so we can label you as the LARPers you all are.

>>126314118
>I will retailate if you don't support this
>a contract based on threat of force
>ancap

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>>126312634
Fuck off moron. We were ally of Nazi germany.

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>>126314010
>Finland /leftypol/ anon shitposter today on /lrg/
>Finn create Communist general thread today
>Finn came and shitposter here now.

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>>126317215
Why can't you a voluntary fascist society within the an ancap world?

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>>126317110
>>126314830
That's why I proposed this, we would have to give them at least a big country to take to be fair.Any suggestions?

>>126310175
No, we don't.

>>126317580
20th-century European fascism is extremely authoritarian, built on dictatorships, control of the economy, forceful distribution of wealth and supression of opposition. Make an effort to understand what you are a promoting at least, instead of saving edgy flags to your hard-drive.

>>126312634
Because you indirectly saved them from eternal Anglo terrorists during WWII.

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>>126316386
Ancap Andy thread!

>>126317807
North American all ancap

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Let's fuse

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>>126317920
Not an argument.

>>126318052
Are you serious? I just told you.

>>126311997
>>126312105
THIS.

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why should NatSoc ally with facile ideologies like AnCap?
inferior meme-ideologies and their followers should be ridiculed not supported...

>>126309784
An authoritarian socialist helping an anarchist

OH THE IRONY

>>126314010
>Hitler was for private property, he only pretended to be a socialist to trick left wingers
>Hitler didn't hate all Jews, just the (((international bankers))) that were ruining Germany
>anarcho-capitalism is inherently wrong because Jews believed in it
fucking christ, stop

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>>126312634
>>126317450
All nations are welcome to be natsoc, so long as they embrace the doctrine of keeping races separate.

>>126311904
god I wish they were me

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This is some Anarchocommunist-tier cringe.

Please show me how, even just ideologically, are NatSoc supposed to agree with Ancaps on anything that isn't the removal of Kebab?

>>126318049
National transhumanism. First I've heard of this, what an idea.

>>126318256
Why couldn't you voluntarily live in a statist society? It doesn't violate the NAP if everyone who lives in said society is consenting to do so.

>>126318782
You could. As for fascism, make your definition clear and I'll tell you what voluntary fascism is an oxymoron.

>>126313543
And one day with our huge numbers we will march into Stockholm. Your decendants will be part Indians.

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>>126311924
Nice.

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Is Neo-Reaction/Dark Enlightenment the final redpill?

It's traditional Monarchism/national CEO mixed with libertarian economics and racial realism.

>>126317215
First time I've agreed with a roach.

>Feelsgoodman.jpeg

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>>126309784

>>126314010
>Rothbard
Supported David Duke and was the most based fucker ever alive.
>Mises
Thought fascism saved Europe, was for liberal nationalism.
>Ayn Rand
Opposed sexual liberation and leftist social agendas.
>Friedman
Literally helped Pinochet.

I think they get a pass.

>>126317215
We may be opposed to nazism, doesn't mean we can't pragmatically ally to achieve our goals.

>>126319503
see
>>126318544
nazis are paranoid lunatics that make up random shit on the spot to dismiss or support opposition at will. It's impossible to convince them of anything because they don't have any convictions except whatever they think will disprove the ideology they're currently arguing against

>>126319622
The goals of Nazism and AnCap are as far apart as the goals of AnCap and communism.

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>>126309784

>>126318782
I don't understand why you can't consent to having a closed economy, one central leader and consensual distribution of wealth if you wish to and still abide by the NAP. I'm not saying it should be forced on anyone, but why can't you opt into a fascist system if that's who you'd like to live your life.

>>126319233
>It's traditional Monarchism/national CEO mixed with libertarian economics and racial realism.

Meme overload. All it needs is for the founder to be jewish, the community to be from reddit, and for it to be mostly 30-40 year old men who write 5 page blogposts.

OH WAIT.

>>126320034
HEE HEE

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What do libertarians think of Mosley

>>126320115
beady

>>126319980
I'm starting to think this is some leftypol attempt to lop us in with nazis.

>>126319864
>spontaneous, natural society
>a system based on merit
>the physical removal of communists
>the ability for whites to survive
>the ability to have a traditional society

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Pic Rel: Never trust the Happy Hapa. They may be hiding something.

Caps and AnCaps alike need to identify the spectrum of "BadCap" as in what the US is under today, which is all 10 planks of Communism fail accompli

Somewhere in the middle is balance, and very likely a point of agreement

>>126317967
Working on a map now.

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>>126320406
I'm actually serious about it.

>>126320429
None of those are inherent AnCap objectives.

>A stateless system where the prices of goods are determined by supply and demand and voluntary exhanges of goods acquired by original appropiaton or voluntary trade free from government control or any other authority.

If people wanna spend your money on promoting "degenerate lifestyles" or form strictly voluntary communist societies that would be their prerogative.

>>126320707

Yeah, great. Let's trade an Islamofascist for an actual fascist that'll make us more free and totally not cause further conflict.

>>126320406
Yeah but Leftypol can't meme, or be successful at any psyops. Strasserfag thread was derailed after 3 days.

>>126320034
>...30-40 year old men who write 5 page blogposts

"...and it was then that Trump realized how to save Billion$ on a wall. He simply used a comment which spanned several states found on a random post, and THE GREAT WALL OF TEXT was bR0n

>>126320406
A hundred percent brother.

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>>126320857
Or you could quit being a baby about it and destroy communism together.If you want to discuss how many countries both sides get be my guest.

>>126309784
>AnCap Natsoc Alliance

So the ancaps have finally lost it. The Libertarian movement will miss you, but it's your choice to be literal Nazis.

If you turn violent, we will not let you drag libertarianism down with you. Perhaps we have embraced the ancaps for too long.

>>126310175
if there's no welfare state - there's no hordes of shitty people trying to immigrate.

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spooks everywhere.

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>>126321258
Lol, don't be such a bitch. Help us remove communists.

>>126320707
Why do the nazis get eastern US? That seems arbitrary.

>>126312551
we're literally about to elect a libertarian to be the leader of our conservative party. election ends in 1 week.

>>126321117
Any existing coercive contracts are the number one impediment, communistic or not.

>>126321569
They don't, American traditionalism is Libertarian, Nazis get Eastern hemisphere we get the West.

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Do you ancaps believe that gold, debt, usury, and private banks should be banned?

If not, you aren't our ally.

>>126318997
>voluntary fascism is an oxymoron
Pretty sure that he just says that living in he prefers living in fascist state

>>126311924

I came desu

>>126321697
>gold should be banned
>big golden eagle in the room

>debt and usury should be banned
>economy was powered by loans

Is this thread a race between fascists and ancaps to see who is more retarded?

>>126321697
Usury yes.
You want to ban gold? Or just not using it as the backing of our currency? In fine with fiat as long as we don't have (((central banking))).

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>>126321569
I didn't say they get it, it was merely a mixed society.But i'm letting you all decide how much land gets taken by both.It's just a rough draft map

>>126320000
Fascism is authoritarian. It's the polar opposite of libertarianism. Libertarians do not worship the state.
>>126310175
This. Self-determination is not a malfunction, it's the second most important right after the right to refuse. Without those two rights, a society is anti-libertarian.

Immigration is a natural conclusion of libertarianism. That doesn't necessarily mean no states and no regulation of immigration, but the spectrum of beliefs stretches from that to something like the current US system.

>>126321850
Yeah I slipped there, it should be legal but not legal tender

>>126321838
Gold-backed currency, sorry

>>126321258
>literal Nazis

NatSoc ≠ Nazi

Ashkenazi = Nazi see

The Ashkenazim were and are on the opposite end of the ideological/political spectrum of Orthodox Jevvz. A columnist for Harretz, established in 1918, one year after the writing of the Balfour Declaration, was discussing NOT NatSoc but those who held opposing ideological bias for the establishment of Israel, as it as against their teachings.

>>126321781
Historically fascist states have been the anti-thesis of freedom. Ultra-nationalist collective ideas are built on state structures and thus are predicated on coercion.

>>126321697
>If not, you aren't our ally
yikes

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>>126315450
hot, post moar

>>126321697
the entire national socialist system was based on debt

>>126321566
Playground politics. Your rhetoric is as vapid and disingenuous as the communists, antifas, and Progressives.
>>126321988
Nazi is literally the German shortening of National Socialist (Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei).

In case you don't know who the Nazis were:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Party

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>>126321934
Yeah I'm cool with that. Also who the fuck wants to promote usury?

Anyway we can be pals, just ignore the "muh statism" cucks.

>>126322121
wow gay

>>126322274
Yeah Brazil is our resident degenerate. He brings us much shame.

>>126322211
Legendary digits!

*looks suspicious*

>>126322211
>Nazi is literally the German shortening of National Socialist

Yes, because no one would ever lie to you or distort history to lean in their favor. Got it!

Care for a Twinkie Pork chop?

Thanks for the sauce to the most trusted source of information EVAR in the galaxy that has zero bias in favor of our BFF's

>>126322229
Replace every instance of libertarian(ism) with any ideology not mentioned in the infographic and the logical coherence of the arguments is unchanged.

In fact, I think that infographic was originally not about libertarianism at all now that I think about it. I recall seeing a straight Nazi/Antifa version a few months.

>>126322491
Hi, ShariaBlue. Please tell the cold-callers to stop calling my workplace. They always say they won't call again, but they always call again.

>>126322491
Gotta say this, Nazi is a Jewish slur and was never used by the national socialist party.

>>126309784
Hail Capitalism, hail our people, hail VICTORY!

>>126311924
AWB! AWB! AWB! THE BOER WILL TAKE BACK THEIR LAND!

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>>126322566
Lol, you're trolling. I made that image. I know there was only one version before it without ((())) parts in it.

You're the shill.

>>126316398
ethno-nationalism is inevitable when you don't have government forcing diversity quotas and outlawing true freedom of association

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>>126322274
>>126322375
I love make this memes.

>>126312225
Hoppean Libertarianism. Otherwise known as sane libertarianism.

>>126322648
And that changes the fact that the NSDAP was literally the National Socialtist Worker's Party of Germany, how?

This guy >>126321988
thinks National Socialists are not Nazis. Who cares if the shortening was coined by anti-Nazis?

>>126320857
>surface tier ancap rhetoric
>ignoring all economic and political theory over the last century aside from some reddit tier memes
>ignoring Hoppe

>>126321881
>Libertarians do not worship the state
Nation state. Fascists like nation states, big difference
>>126322060
Whatever I don't even care about Libertarian principles so I can't even make arguments for this shit

((())) = Amy Schumers vagina.

Everything fits!

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>>126313066
The 3rd Reich was a Hoppean covenant society if one accepts that one's liberty is a commodity like any other, and can be exchanged under contractual obligation with other individuals, for other intangibles like security, etc. This contractual obligation can be extended to the formation of any collective, even an "Authoritarian state", so long as that state permits individuals to divest from that contract. Unlike the Soviet Union, there was no "Iron Curtain" keeping citizens of the 3rd Reich locked in as slaves. People had rights as well as responsibilities, but were free to divest themselves -- hence the massive flood of voluntary "refugee" Jews and Communists once Hitler came to power. Had war not broken out, Hitler would have continued to expel "undesirables" via such means as the Haavara Agreement (sending Jews to colonize Palestine and build their own ethnostate).

>>126322803
I don't have a great memory, hence why I hedged the assertion. A human being makes for a terrible witness. It's why there are flat earthers. We can convince ourselves of anything, including the fabrication of memories.

>>126322991
>no arguments
>freedom to make bad economic choices
>appeal to authority

>>126320707
I WANT US TO RESURRECT HITLER!

>>126322648
>Gotta say this, Nazi is a Jewish slur and was never used by the national socialist party

Yes. And it rhymes with Yahtzee. Who knew?

It's always customary for any group who half-assed together an entire political party, and never gave any thought to the future, to randomly select letters out of the phrase Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei until it sounds like legit Nazi.

Of course, the Ashkenazim wasn't the intended point of the discussion. And the Talmud is just misunderstood.

Group hug!

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>>126323070
What the fuck are you going on about? Stop replying to me please.

>>126323020
A nation state is just a state based on national identity. Libertarians don't give a crap about different flavors of statism, we care about liberty and the protection of individual rights.

Nazi party members were required to do the Heil Hitler salute. Libertarians do not compel each other to do meaningless gestures to reinforce an authoritarian hierarchy. We're uncomfortable, at best, with coercion and generally demand a pretty damn good reason for why any person should ever have any right or choice forcibly removed from them.

>>126314003
I like your ideas in theory, but you have to understand that we don't live in a world where you would be allowed to implement your ideas.

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>>126322375
>Brazil is our resident degenerate
Kind of like Froghurt in the natsoc generals?

>>126323068
It could definitely have functioned as a hoppean society, but it was not - no contract was signed between the majority of people and the owner of the nation. Furthermore, from a libertarian point of view, the state did not own a majority of the land it claimed to (not having homesteaded or exchanged for the land), and as such could not give it away as part as a contract.

>>126323313
Yes I know, you are bunch of fags that like to LARP like retards.

>>126322934
>National Socialists are not Nazis

Yes. Remember children. Never equate Nazi with Ashkenazim, Talmudic Jevvz on the opposite end of liberal orthodox Jevvz.

Just regurgitate what you have been indoctrinated to believe and everything will be terrific.

Let's be different. Let's all communicate in euphemism. Fuck the dictionary. amirite?

>>126323388
We don't live in a world where you would be allowed to implement NatSoc either. That's why we must - by force, if necessary - make a better world, where we can implement our views.

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Incoming forbidden meme!

>>126323068
this

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>>126309784
> Unity on /pol/ get out marxist

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>>126323454
>no contract was signed between the majority of people and the owner of the nation
Citizenship is not a contract? Also:
>all contracts are literally on paper, with literal signatures
???

>>126323188
I'm saying that I vaguely recall an alternate version of the image, but that my recollection may not be correct.

I'll reply to who I please. The "shut up because I disagree with you" tactic is why I hate communists, Progressives, and Nazis.

You are welcome to talk as long as you please. I am not going to shame you for your beliefs. I am not going to dismiss your beliefs. I am not going to say that you are wrong.

We are all made poorly. Our brains are limited. No one is born knowing anything but instinct.

That is what I am going on about.

>>126323426
Sorta, he just promotes gay shit and trans-mental illness in /lrg/ from time to time.

>>126323826
Ok.

>>126323764
>muh social contract
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2002/04/butler-shaffer/the-social-contract-and-other-myths/

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>>126324034
>not honoring a handshake
Have you no honor? Are you even Aryan?
;^)

>>126323764
The fuck are you talking about? Citizenship is not a contract. It's enforced.

>>126318637
hitler made a mistake by not being an ancap
angela merkel now controls everything he left and hitlers people are okay with that because "well, statism knows best"

>>126324131
>It's enforced
So are expulsions of "undesireables" from a Hoppean state, your point?

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>Nazis violating the NAP by infiltrating us

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R E M I N D E R

BOOMP

>>126324238
I've never claimed to be a Hoppean Ancap.

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>>126311924

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>>126314269
>no greater tax base to sustain welfare and leftist policies, those would quickly turn into detroits as the successful people leave once it turns shitty
>lowering the value of the land to be purchased and reintegrated with proper policies.
F-fuck this is smart
>the beauty of it
Never thought of this

>>126324265
>infiltrating
its a NSG/LRG alliance thread?
>>126324324
>I've never claimed to be a Hoppean Ancap.
Then your input in my discussion chain is not required.

>>126311924
>United White Colonies of Africa
Dream big

>>126314269
>has an ideology that requires there to be no state
>does not realize that governments will never willingly dismantle themselves
Anarcho-capitalists need to realize that they are while being less stupid that left-anarchists, they are still anarchists and thus will at some point need to dismantle the state in order to implement their ideas.

To phrase it in another way, you would need to throw the entire government out of helicopters in order to implement your ideas.

I would love to live in ancapistan, but how do you plan on making ancapistan a reality?

>>126324580
>governments will never willingly dismantle themselves
You're implying stateless societies are impossible once a state emerges.

I dont think NatSoc and AnCaps can go together, maybe fascists are more compatible with them.

>>126310175
Libertarians want to end the subsidy of immigration, which they say is the real problem.

Ancaps don't believe in free movement at all. In ancapism, there are no public roads or public spaces. Everyone is free to discriminate against anyone they want. You'll have to pay a fee in order to use a road. This fee will include insurance against you committing a crime in a certain area, and of course blacks will probably be charged more.

Additionally, most communities will want to be ethnically homogenous and have the right to protect their homogeneity.

Both ancap and natsoc believe in prosperity through extreme discrimination. Ancaps don't care if you want to set up a Nazi state somewhere as long as you don't violate our property rights.

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>>126324714
>implying there's a critical difference between Fascism and Natsoc
Do you even read Feder?

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>>126321651
Still a work in progress.

>>126309784
>implying an ancap won't back stab you when he sees fit
>natsocs
>cooperate with anybody
This won't work

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>>126324674

>>126312446
>seems like a natural alliance to me
Nothing could be further from the Truth.
Arguably from Mises point of view Nazism was even more abhorrent than even Communism. His argument for that being even the Marxist type socialistonly went as far as property is to be collectively owned but Nazism went as far a socializing the people themselves into ownership by the State.
This book is to Nazism what Mises book "socialism" is to socialism

https://mises.org/library/omnipotent-government-rise-total-state-and-total-war-0

>>126324818
And what about the vast majority of land that is uninhabited or sparsely inhabited?

Do you think an Ancap society would hire guards to patrol the wilderness, looking for random people traversing then demanding that they pay a fee to continue walking?

States don't have the resources for that. There would be Ancap highwaymen, of course. But they aren't going to stem immigration, much less significantly affect travel, since people will do what they have always done with highwaymen, pay them when it's easier, kill them when it's easier.

>>126324962
top kek, Turkbro

>>126312446
>no one has a right to make you allow immigrants onto your property
Well yah that is how it is today. Without permission no one is allowed to come onto your property immigrant or not. This image sets up a vague misdirecting strawman of some kind of comedic personal housing of migrants mandated by the state. It fails to address the issue of migrants occupying all the property around yours.

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>>126311924
Hey WTF Fascism deserves the Mediterranean Sea (Spain, Mediterranean coast of France, Italy, Greece, Balcans) and Africa
Change this

>>126325112
Read hoppe, we libertarians consider hitler top shit on social issues like racial separation, ethnostate, hating commies and jews, and the list goes on. Also hitler prizatized the economy on all but infastructure

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>>126316398
>thinking nation and state are the same thing

>>126324580
>how do you plan on making ancapistan a reality?

in my interpretation, there will be two primary means of achieving ancapistan. These are both external, that is, not based in democracy or by election or any other internal means within a state -- for why would it seek to destroy itself?

these methods go as follows, the first of which is: (a) mass revolt a la national militia movements to establish an accepted state of anarchy, and thus, anarcho-capitalism; and (b) from the collapse of a state wherein the populace may either turn to the first method or just adopt anarcho-capitalism from ashes and ruins

clearly, one method is more productive than the other but the end result is the same. These governments can choose a soft or hard landing upon collapse, to either embrace the arms of freedom or to reject it in bloody conflict. I will be mocked for saying this, but I really do believe that at the very least principles of ancap is an inevitability. The state (and globalism) continues to grow, and the people will continue to feel threatened and turn to other platforms of thought, economical collapse or not. Fascism has a bad name and has passed, but ancap has yet to truly to bloom.

from destruction there is creation, and whether violent or not, necessary chaos must be in place for a higher order of stability to be established. Once ancap is established, man can only look to conquering the stars after conquering all of his home planet in one unified ideology based in freedom and liberty. Time and truth can only tell

>>126312446
Immigrants merely coming into the country isn't the problem. Unless you believe that public land is "owned" by the state, in which case you're not an ancap and immigration is a red herring to begin with.

>>126324962

This is the future we chose!

>>126325505
We Libertarians think Hitler was a far-left authoritarian dictator who didn't give a crap about liberty and said so quite explicitly in his very famous manifesto.

Nazi Germany WAS, surprisingly, the least nationalized in terms of industry out of the major powers in WWII, but that changed by the end of the war (Hitler saw no problem with it) and all the other major powers were also very authoritarian at the time, including the US.

Sort of like trying to defend communism by picking out the communist who was the least bad of the awful lot.

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>>126325887
>We Libertarians think Hitler was a far-left authoritarian dictator
Nice meme Chaim.

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>>126309784
No

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>>126326094
And now it's time for the JIDF to slide the thread.

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>>126309784
No lolbertarians are just as bad or commies. National Socialism was a reaction to both communism and liberalism (aka classical liberalism aka lolbertarianism)

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>>126326094

>>126325812
Not terrible plans, but there is a fundamental problem for each.

(a) If a democracy will never vote to become Ancap, then Ancap is not a Libertarian philosophy in practice, even if it is Libertarian in the abstract.

(b) Every time a society has collapsed, people have reverted to ad hoc economic and social systems out of necessity. How would Ancaps, who are already quite close to this already, become the dominant economic-social system? Historically, it has never happened. Warlordism or statism has always won.

>>126326086
Eh. There are decent arguments for why Hitler really was right-wing, including choice quotes like that (assuming it's not misattributed or fake).

But if Hitler's ideology was based entirely on claiming to be one thing, while actually being something else entirely then....why would you ever believe any of his words? His actions speak well enough. And his actions were very authoritarian, very pro-welfare, very Progressive, we can go on and on.

>>126326086
>It was in order to provoke the political left wing, to drive them into fury
Holy shit, Hitler was the original alt-right troll. If he were alive today he would be protesting with kek signs and making anti-SJW videos on youtube.

>>126325165
What's your point? Unowned land ought to be free for the taking. Owners of uninhabited landowners will take whatever defensive measures they find appropriate. If they're not doing enough damage to warrant this, then the landowner is free to ignore them.

Who cares if there are some spics out in the desert? The ancap covenant community will have a network of contracts that make it so you can't sell to a Mexican without compensating every other landowner for their property value losses.

You see, if you and your neighbor both signed a contract that prevented you both from selling your house to a felon, it would actually increase both of your property values a lot for just the cost of paper and ink. Of course, the next owner would either have to agree to these terms or pay a predetermined performance bond. Home insurance companies will have teams of lawyers CONSTANTLY coming up with contracts like this in order to save money.

The free market solves way more than you think.

>>126324962
A Turkish ancap. You're like a unicorn.

>>126325165
>Do you think an Ancap society would hire guards to patrol the wilderness, looking for random people traversing then demanding that they pay a fee to continue walking?
Ask yourself this retard
What do large private landowners do right now?>>126325505
I have read hoppe that doesn't make Nazism any more diametrically opposed to libertarianism.
> shit on social issues like racial separation, ethnostate, hating commies and jews, and the list goes on
Anon you're projecting your own bias on what hoppe writes and teaches.

The reality of free association and the discrimination that comes with it that discrimination tends to be extremely costly. Segregation of the type your suggesting has only occurred in societies where a large over reaching government has enforced it. The easiest to comprehend example of how market forces help end the specific kind of discrimination you're referring to is sports especially basketball back when segregation was being phased out because forced all white teams simply weren't as competitive and rather than eat the cost of discrimination team owners hired the most competent players.
> Also hitler prizatized the economy on all but infastructure
Anon stop. The sheer control and central planning over every aspect of the economy in Nazi Germany makes the EPA look like a small town post office.

You're completely missing the critical point made by Mises in that link and I touched on. "Ownership" of property in Nazi Germany was utterly superficial because the Nazi state essentially owned you the individual and everything you could do with said "property".

If you own a store but you cannot buy or sell anything unless it's completely pre approved by the government and they can determine just how much of you can purchase and where from(god forbid you need something imported into the country) and how to sell it and if the government find any infraction or even make one up can take the store from you do you really own that store?

capitalism is cool


no such thing as ancap, just democrat word to link free trade to bad stuff, ignore its stupidity

>>126326590>>126326738


My point is an Ancap society would never devote the resources necessary to prevent immigration (excepting on the local scale, between neighborhoods), so an Ancap society would have completely uncontrolled immigration.

If you don't care about the foreigners in the desert, then they'll take over the rural areas and trap you in the city some day. Mass migrations are just a part of human behavior. Ancap societies can not be equipped to change that and still be an Ancap society.

>>126311924
8/8

>>126326738
no no
capitalism and iscrimination made usa no1 in 1800s while ending slavery
w should go back to 1800s style capitalism or even more extreme asap

>>126323601
Okay. Lets say we take over a country. What happens when all the other countries invade us? The iraq war was justified with completely fabricated reasons, so playing nice will not save us if they decide to eliminate us. If the powers that be saw us as a threat to the world order they would end us immediately. You can talk all day about different communities and contracts, but at the end of the day we will need a united army to be able to fend off the rest of the world, and to have a strong army you need to have a state.

>>126326086
Hitler opposed Marxism like Shiite oppose Shia.
Both are different parts of the same abhorrent collectivist cloth they just disagree on how the State should lord over the individual.

>>126312769
>>126313305
I believe AnCap could only work if there's lots of land for every individual (America), nobody treading on each other.
It couldn't in Europe.

The Irish is right, and the American can't see where he's coming from (not a fault) because he's used to the concept of being plenty of room for everybody.

Ancap end goal:

1 habitable planet for every human being.

>>126327215

Yes the individual should be subservient to the collective and work within his means to serve and accomplish communal goals. That doesn't erase individuality but actually elevates and enables it helping people reach their potential and take pride helping their race. You fake cliche (((individuality))) is a jewish concept that never existed outside academia/

National libertarianism??

>>126327406
>habitable
why?

>>126321697
No, you're just a retarded cuck. Nat Soc is about survival of the fittest, if you fall for usury you are untermensch; also gold being banned is fucking retarded.

>>126324662
The us government has plans in place to continue collecting taxes in the case of nuclear war. You live in a fantasy world if you think you can just ask a government nicely to dismantle itself.

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>>126326620
I mostly meme though, senpai.

But of course if I acquire a lot of money somehow, I'd definitely try to support ancap some way or other.

>>126327751
Because it costs money. Duh!

>>126326543
>If a democracy will never vote to become Ancap, then Ancap is not a Libertarian philosophy in practice,

democracy is simply not needed, which is antithetical to ancap. That is why ancap is part anarchy, and not just capitalism. Libertarianism on its own is less government -- ancap is the absolute removal of it altogether. Anarchy is what permits this, but anarchy alone is just chaos. There must be organization after chaos, and that is where capitalism can truly shine.

>How would Ancaps, who are already quite close to this already, become the dominant economic-social system?

like any other body of thought, from sharing information. I would not be an ancap today were it not for the internet and the free books available at mises.org. Awareness is important, and that is why activism remains key despite having little influence in elections. It is very difficult to remove public knowledge once it proliferates enough, and it is here that after collapse people will remember: what lead us to collapse so it can be avoided next time, and what lead us to prosperity in the first place for us to improve on?

Warlordism and statism may have won historically speaking, but when people realize that it is that same warlordism and statism that got them into collapse they might just reconsider. There is a trend in history: more and more freedom is given to people from aristocracy, to monarchy, to democracy (hoppefags will get this). The next step in more freedom is absolute freedom

>>126326951
>w should go back to 1800s style capitalism or even more extreme asap
We should
Your ignorance and thinking the cartoonish"robber baron" propaganda isn't just that you're a fool.
Article relevant not the website as a whole but if you won't read that article based on the name of the site there's no point I. Talking to you.
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/in-praise-of-robber-barons/

>>126327798
We need more ancaps here

>>126327606
please Anon I can only get so erect

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>>126327406
>not having private planets

think big, friend

>>126327406
You can't homestead things that big

>>126323761
AWAKEN MY MASTERS

>>126326890
My point is that you don't NEED to devote resources to it. People don't even naturally immigrate unless there are enough gibs to make it worthwhile. It would be too expensive for large numbers of people to immigrate a long distance unless they have an extremely outstanding record. Also, travel will be more expensive for minorities.
>>126326738
As Ancaps, it's not our concern what happens inside a state unless it affects us. As long as the natsoc state doesn't violate our property rights, they will die out automatically. It will probably start out as a voluntary thing, but there will be so many refugees that they'll implement exit visas. If they start trespassing on our property going after the refugees, then and only then will we have reason to step in.
Even though you cannot alienate your will and even though use of force wouldn't be tolerated under ancapism, we weren't party to the founding of the state, especially if it starts out as a voluntary state.

>>126328072
ok ok, 1 mandatory planet minimum per 1 individual human being.

>>126328078
we can do w/e the fuck we want. we ancap bitch!

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>>126327798

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>>126328143
>People don't even naturally immigrate unless there are enough gibs to make it worthwhile
utter and complete historically illiterate faggotry right there. Human history is defined by dozens if not thousands of mass migrations, regardless of whether there was a state or not. Fucking Christ ancaps...

>>126327859
no such thing as anarcho capitalism
or crony capitalism
just capitalism
made usa no1 in 1800s while ending slavery
gov spending total 1% gdp
no welfare
no unions
everyone happy
compare to shitty result now with all the government help
the cure is less government help

How many layers of irony are you fucking refugees on right now?
Go home to Somalia you degenerate wandering Jew faggots.
Does this look like Sweden cunt? Go plead for assylum at Tumblr.

>>126327859
If the only way an Ancap society can survive in the face of Warlordism an Statism is by having everyone gain perfect information and make the optimal decision, then an Ancap society will never survive.

This is also why Fascism and Anarcho-Capitalism are incompatible on a fundamental level. Ancap societies are evolutionarily unfit.

>>126327891
>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/in-praise-of-robber-barons/
your thinking is faulty
there never were robber barons
I am not againmst something that enver existed
unregulated capitalism is what we need asap

>>126328143
>My point is that you don't NEED to devote resources to it. People don't even naturally immigrate unless there are enough gibs to make it worthwhile. It would be too expensive for large numbers of people to immigrate a long distance unless they have an extremely outstanding record. Also, travel will be more expensive for minorities.

I would remind you of a saying my high school SS teacher was found of.

>It's better to keep your mouth shut and appear a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.

How would an ancap country even wage war? Would it even be a country?

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>>126311924
Makes me rero desu

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>>126327603
>Yes the individual should be subservient to the collective and work within his means to serve and accomplish communal goals
That's exactly what capitalism does when free association isn't tampered with.
Pic related is the fallacy collectivist have always fallen into. That these things must be forced through the edge of a blade or the barrel of a gun. But it is exactly when you force individuals cooperating in a society freely into some "collective good" (read for the government's benefit) is exactly when you're ending societal cooperation in favor of the interest of those in government. Nothing has killed needlessly more men than the phrase"we're the government and this is for your own good".

Link related is an example of social cooperation on a global scale for nothing more than to make a simple pencil and this organized chaos that is entirelyworking for the consumers(read everyone) and works extraordinarily well drives central planners and tyrants absolutely insane.

http://www.econlib.org/library/Essays/rdPncl1.html

There's a reason why in nearly all cultures the most evil of figures is always the arrogant controlling know it all.

>>126328072
private planets are the ideal future

capitalist space

awesome

regulations are of course whats holding back progress

make gov spending 1% of gdp and end all gov payouts except defense and courts

I invented a time machine that only allows you to go back in time as many years as you are old and the only function is to stop yourself from being born.

It costs you everything you own and if you fail to return to your home timeline you are forced to wait until the machine resets.

>>126328143
>People don't even naturally immigrate unless there are enough gibs
AnCap farmer imports the entirety of mexico to harvest his fruits on the cheap. (You) as the neighbor have no power to stop it. The majority of business owners see this practice and start copying it. While not your relatively small swath of personal property, the entire nation is now overrun with shitskins. Now what?

>>126324850

Fascist society is capitalism driven to a certain extent (to not damage the national interest). NatSoc is all about welfare, public projects and military.

>>126328739
Ironic shitpost are still shitpost

>>126311924
t shirt worthy

>>126328762
It would not be a country, no. It would just be local semi-formal groups.

It's unclear how global trade would work in an Ancap society. De facto tariffs would be everywhere and nothing would stop banditry except guards hired by traders, which would promote corporations or companies that effectively fill the void left by government by becoming publicly unaccountable pseudo-governments.

>>126311924
10/10 or higher

the fucking strawpoll from last night proving natsoc out number ancap faggots has made them try to form a fucking alliance HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>126328491
crony capitalism is different from regular capitalism but i agree with you, yes

less government is key

>>126328629
>is by having everyone gain perfect information and make the optimal decision

not necessarily. All that is needed is not perfect information, but snippets of liberty -- the principles -- that are easily understood. Everyone understands what murder, rape, and theft are: involuntary actions imposed on people, violent in their core. Extending this to government, to make them synonymous as they actually are in practice, that is all that is needed. That and of course, guns. Lots and lots of guns and weaponry. Freedom-based militias fulfill this role.

Ancap is not evolutionarily unfit, it is the next step in the evolution of freedom and prosperity. The most free and most economically prosperous nations confirm it in the modern world; they've just to take the next step in liberty

>>126328391
>>126328609
>>126328742
Most historical immigration was violent and so these instances don't even fucking count. In the case of colonialism, the natives didn't even think of themselves as owning the land. My point is that most of today's immigration is mainly gibs-based.
>>126328967
>While not your relatively small swath of personal property, the entire nation is now overrun with shitskins. Now what?
Move to a white part of the world that has stronger contracts such as I mentioned earlier.

>>126312225
100% true
why are government fool would deem it the will of anyone to move unproductive poor people in usin money taken from existign ciizens is fucking insane

democracy is communism

free trade is what is needed
unregulated capitalism

File: JotaroYes.gif (2MB, 500x281px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 500x281px

>>126311924

You see this spec of dirt?

It's worth more than your life savings.

>>126312446
:)

sink the boat people
kill all politicians who send boats to pickup poor idiots

>>126328830

The state is an institution and organisation that represents the will of society and has a duty and role to guide individual effort and initiative towards goals that benefit the racial community. Cooperation to acquire profit has no regard for communal goals outside strict economic calculation. The economic endeavours of individuals should serve the common good. Economic actors operate under license from society and are subservient to it.

>>126329522
>Most historical immigration was violent and so these instances don't even fucking count
yes it was. the athabascan tribes who came in after the siberians into American fought and fought and still hate eachother til today. The Germanic tribes were pushed into Rome by the migrating Huns. Europe itself was founded on Neanderthal genocide. The fuck are you smoking

>>126314003
hoppe is a living legend

how is it that only on 4chan have i heard of him?
wow!!!

UCLA economics degree worthless

Our drinking water doesn't have enough chemicals in it.

>>126329912
G A Y F R O G S
A
Y
F
R
O
G
S

>>126328143
>People don't even naturally immigrate unless there are enough gibs to make it worthwhile

What happens when the immigrate with tanks? Let's say one large collective decides they want to steal the stuff of all the other collectives, so they invade a small collective. Even though the small collective is armed they still lose due to sheer numbers. The large collective steam rolls all the small collectives while they are fiddling with contracts on what to do about the large collective steam rolling people.

Eventually you realize that the large collective has created this weird thing called a "state" and took over everyone else.

Soon a bunch of collective band together and form there own "state" to be able to fight the other one.

>inb4 NAP
the NAP does not work on people who don't believe in it. You can't give helicopter rides to those who are more powerful than you.

Some collectivism is necessary to allow individualism to exist. Because if one group decides to be collectivist, they will destroy all groups who chose to remain individuals everytime.

>>126329728
Violent migration is not comparable to nonviolent immigration. Ancapism prevents violent immigration very straightforwardly by using invasion insurance. But we weren't talking about violent immigration in the first place so it's stupid to bring it up.

My point still stands. You need a strong economic incentive to immigrate to a foreign land with foreign peoples.

>>126329504
People inherently understand morality. That means they understand that sometimes murdering, stealing, even raping is what makes them a good person. That means people understand that doing something terrible to someone else, is sometimes what the victim "deserves." This really is fundamental to our brains.

But we are not born knowing what murder, rape, and theft are. We have to experience it in some way first. Many rapists are people who have never thought much about rape, but understand that they want something and there is a way for them to get it. Thanks to our brains, these people almost always justify, even retroactively, that their decision was moral and that they are good people, even better people perhaps, for having raped someone.

This is why I say Anarcho-Capitalism is unfit. People are rational. We prefer safe choices more often than risky ones. Ancaps need a society of optimal decision makers, who ignore their personal rationality for the sake of the entire Ancap society, which they don't even see themselves as a part of.

>>126330143
Home and invasion insurance. It's like you don't even know what you're debating against. Go lurk moar in /lrg/.

>>126330143
>Some collectivism is necessary to allow individualism to exist. Because if one group decides to be collectivist, they will destroy all groups who chose to remain individuals everytime.

Sad, but true. You have to give up to get.

In an ancap society you could be anyone you want as long as you paid for the premium cloning package.

>>126329723
>The state is an institution and organisation that represents the will of society
Think more about what you just said and the implications of it.
This suggestion is the same as saying every genocide was simply suicide of the victims.
> The economic endeavours of individuals should serve the common good.
What is the common good?
>Economic actors operate under license from society and are subservient to it
That's what you aren't getting anon.
People freely associating and trading with each other are doing exactly that. When you want to government to force people to do things that they aren't doing voluntarily you're by definition stopping cooperation of society in an institutional manner.

You yourself are suggesting doing exactly what you're saying should be opposed because you cannot accept the fact and reality that capitalism is the most cohesive system man has ever devised for Cooperating with each other for mutual benefit but because you have the heart and soul of a tyrant an arrogant controlling know it all you cannot stand for this and want to force society into how you "think it should be". Something if you study the most evil figures in nearly every human culture is exactly what they all depict.

>>126311924
>Jewish containment island
What happens to the Palestinians?

>>126329522
>Move to a white part of the world that has stronger contracts such as I mentioned earlier
>stronger contracts
In order to live in this part of the world would you need to sign all the contracts, or just some of them? At some point all your contracts just end up resembling a state. The only difference is that membership in this state is completely voluntary.

Truth of the matter is...

... there's a little ancap in all of us.

Now pay up.

>>126330373
How much money does the insurance company have to charge each customer, just to safeguard the insurance company's reserve fund?

Why is an organization like an insurance company in an Ancap society fundamentally different from a government, in terms of actions? The former is just unaccountable and has a profit-motive independent of the customers, but with sufficient concentrated power to leverage unfair deals with the individual customers.

>>126314118
>tfw jewish ancap

>>126330551
>They don't matter goy
>Now invade another neighbor of ours that poses a threat to our long term hegemony for us
>Thanks for the billions of free money as well

You know when your butthole itches and you scratch it and you smell your fingers?

That's ancap.

>>126330373
Not home invasion insurance. You will need TANK INVASION insurance.

If the invading army buys a mountain nearby they can rain hellfire down on you at a moments notice.

The problem I have with ancap is that is assumes people will not try to violently and relentlessly try to destroy you.

>>126330494
>What is the common good?

Stop trying to argue with me like I am a liberal. I am a National Socialist the tricks you learned from Tom Woods don't work on me. Common good is everything that benefits the race of people that make up the state. It encompasses a lot of things all the way from material prosperity to non economic goods like pride happiness sense of accomplishement moral standards etc.

>People freely associating and trading with each other are doing exactly that

Free association is not an absolute universal right that extends to everyone without boudnaries. I guess we have a fundamentally different outlook of society. Lolbertarians and National Socialists have polar opposite ideological and philosophical convictions which is why all this talk about an alliance is retarded.

>>126330561
The people selling their land will have a collection of contracts designed to keep everyone's property values high.

The big stipulation is that the contracts must either be transferred to the next owner, or someone has to pay an amount of money to release themselves from the contract. This is called a performance bond.

So yes, it will be completely voluntary. If you don't want to sign something, just pay the performance bond and tear up the previous owner's contract.

>>126330721
Counter-insurance. Also, the insurance company is interested in seeing the property get more expensive so they can charge more. And every customer will be able to select their policy. There will be systems of contracts between landowners that penalize freeloading.
All of these questions have straightforward answers, but I've been up all night and this thread is going to timeout in a few minutes.
Read more here.
>https://mises.org/library/private-production-defense

>>126331393
But there won't be people to give gimmies to the gimmiedats, anon. So the gimmiedats won't come for the gimmies. It's just illogical to think gimmiedats would take the gimmies by force, much less that they'd turn our possessions into their gimmies.

>>126331507
>There will be systems of contracts between landowners that penalize freeloading.

Like with the Bundy Ranch thing? That was the one where they had a contract to pay, refused, ignored legal actions attempting to make them pay, then it turned violent. Sure the BLM turned it violent, but the fact is the insurance company or "system of contracts" would have the same kind of enforcement mechanisms as a normal government.

>>126331393
Yes. Insurance companies will have their own tanks.

It's like you don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about.

>>126330289
>People are rational. We prefer safe choices more often than risky ones. Ancaps need a society of optimal decision makers, who ignore their personal rationality for the sake of the entire Ancap society, which they don't even see themselves as a part of.

i disagree. A state is irrational, no safer than if groups of people as a 70% majority vote against a 30% minority, forcing them to comply because "it's democracy". The safety and non-risky atmosphere that people seem to think their current system follows is precisely what will lead them to collapse, likewise to the people who had thought communism is the "safe" and "rational" choice for their country.

Ancap does not seek to ignore personal rationality, or to do things "as a collective". That would be more socialistic in nature, or as I've hinted, communism. In actuality, ancap wishes for you to maximize on your personal rationality in the free market to prosper. All one needs to know is that with ancap, government is out of your back. You are free, and everything else is voluntary. There is no need to be a collective anything other than the base, simple-to-understand principles instead of something as intentionally obscure as dialectical materialism or whatever nonsense.

simply put, ancap values optimal decision makers that specifically looks after their own interest instead of a supposed pseudo-"ancap" collective. Ancap is freedom, and that is all anyone needs to understand as a group