Is capitalism basically feudalism?

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Hmmmmm....

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Not yet, but it's getting there.
I honestly don't know what to think about it.
Communism failed, what else can we try?

>>126168985
Should be updated with "he traded it to me for a handful of beads".

>>126168985
Replace "he fought for it" with "he bought it" and add in a scene where he calls his private guards on those commie parasites.

>>126169347
>>126169416
I get the gist of what you're saying.
It's not black and white. Private property should exist.
But for example, why does some inbred muslim "prince" own half of the worlds oil.
How is it fair that he gets to sit on his ass and earn more money in 15 minutes than we do in our entire lives?

>>126168985
Technocracy or Technocratic Communism/Fascism, the main problem of communism was the inability to efficiently centrally plan. However, efficient AI/Machine Learning and access to gargantuan datasets could possibly plan even better than humans and ensure relative equality, end most poverty and hunger, etc.

>>126170005
>fair
And stealing people property is your vision of fair? To me, it sounds like you are desperately trying to justify intense envy.

>>126168985
We could always go back to literal feudalism.

Without periodic overthrowing of the elite, in whatever form they take, every society or form of government eventually becomes oppressive and unfair. That's part of why social justice is so big today, everyone knows something is wrong, but the elite control the press now, so they force the blame on someone else.

>>126170087
That might be true, but the same problems would arise again.
The status quo would have to be disturbed, and the machines collectivized.
On one hand the rich wouldn't just give up on their hegemony, on the other hand some of the revolutionary vanguard would try to establish a hegemony of their own.
It just seems too unrealistic for now.

>>126170270
Honestly yes. If some goat fucker has enough money to buy a country, some Polish slave girls and a gold lamborgini, something is seriously wrong there in my book.

>>126170277
Too discredited, and also anarcho-capitalism is feudalism. You just don't have a president, you have a CEO.

feudalism is just ancient ancap

>>126171194
Because you want to have his wealth, not because you think wealth is bad.

>>126171442
Both my friend.
And talking hypothetically here, sure i would like to have his money.
But i don't think anyone really needs that kind of money to begin with.
Humans need food, drink, friends, lovers, hobbies, work.
You don't need a million dollars to be happy.
And people having too much money is bad for other people.
Even ancient Greek philosophers like Plato and Aristotle emphasized the importance of relative wealth equality.

>Happiness, whether consisting in pleasure or virtue, or both, is more often found with those who are highly cultivated in their minds and in their character, and have only a moderate share of external goods, than among those who possess external goods to a useless extent but are deficient in higher qualities. - Aristotle

There was another one i was looking for, but i can't find it right now, so i will type it from memory. The gist of it was.

>No one should have so little money, that they have to sell themselves into slavery to survive. And no one should have so money, that they can buy people. -Aristotle

>>126172628
>And people having too much money is bad for other people.
Why, are you starving right now? Can you eat saudi oil? Your hubris seems to be that you think you have some sort of authority to decide how much is too much for other people, or perhaps you're still lying to yourself and are still justifying why you should be able to steal. Seriously, the cognitive dissonance must be damaging you. Justifying stealing to live lavishly by saying that those people don't need to live lavishly.
>No one should have so little money, that they have to sell themselves into slavery to survive. And no one should have so money, that they can buy people
Why not? Some people deserve to starve by virtue of the fact that they can't feed themselves, welcome to reality. The reason you fear this so much is because you view yourself as the person starving.

>>126168569
No. Feudalism involves personal relationships and doesn't use money much. Closer to the Russian concept of "blat'"

http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/2014/11/dark-age-america-end-of-market-economy.html

>>126173179
people like you are going to die first in the new gulags after the revolution

>>126173523
Get a job, feed yourself. You'll find that when you have some confidence in yourself these feelings of jealousy will stop.

>>126173669
I'm not jealous, i just want everyone to live a well-off life.

>nazis will debate this

kys

>>126173959
>i just want everyone to live a well-off life
No, you want to live a well off life but view yourself as incapable of doing this on your own and instead want society to be able to take care of this for you.

>>126174455
I'd actualy like for the community to take care of each other.

also im pretty open to communism where we just kill off all the niggers since they wouldn't contribute anything and bring the system down.

>>126168569
No. It's private ownership of the means of production. You'll learn about this when you reach highschool.

>>126174706
>I'd actually like for the community to take care of each other.
You'd like the community to take care of you.

>>126174918
Poland wins again.

>>126173179
>Your hubris seems to be that you think you have some sort of authority to decide how much is too much for other people
And you seem to think law is some unbreakable binding oath.
It doesn't matter what i think. If poor people are too poor and too many, they cannibalize the entire society. They steal and murder.
You can be autistic about it and say: ,,Oh that mine, you are breaking the NAP."
Or you can have a prosperous and harmonious society where every bodies needs are met.
>Why not? Some people deserve to starve
Yea, the parasites that don't work or contribute to society deserve to starve.

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>>126168569
>IZ CAPITAUHLIZEM BAWSUCALLEE FOODALIZMMMM XDDDDDDD??????????? LOLOLOL XDDD DHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHASDHASP:LDHJ:LDJ:LAFJ:SDJSD"FSDF

fucking retarded nigger jew. look at a FUCKING CHART FOR ONCE IN YOUR LIFE YOU SUB HUMAN NIGGER AND READ. CAPITALISM WAS 1792 to 1913. holy FUCKING CHRIST YOU GOD DAMN NIGGER.

>HURR DURR WHAT IS MONETARY POLICY HURR FUCKING DURRRRRRRRRRR I WANT MY WHOLE LIFE TO BE DRAMA CUZ MOMMA DADDA NEVER GAVE ME ENOUGH ATTENTION SO I NEED TO TAL ABOUT BULL SHIT TO GET IT AND NEVER GET TO THE ACTUAL ANSWER BECAUSE OF DEEP SEATED EMOTIONAL ISSUES SO HURR DURRRRRRRRR CAPITALIZM IS EVIL N SHIEEEEEEEEEET.

kys. you're human fucking garbage. open a book. central banks are not capitalism. income taxes are not capitalism.

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jesus fucking christ this board is full of alphabet agency shills and retarded fucking spergs. fucking swine.

Why are you sperging out dude?

>>126168569
Every type of government has hierarchy and feudalism. Even you precious little gobbunists.

Go cry about it.

>>126175882
>Or you can have a prosperous and harmonious society where every bodies needs are met.
Once again, you mean you want a society where your needs are met, rather than meeting your needs yourself.

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>>126168569
>Is capitalism basically feudalism?
No, feudalism is actually humane.

Implying feudalism doesn't create a more equal distribution of wealth becasue the peasants themselves are wealth

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That would be the tremendous failure known as marxism.

>>126176283
Imagine for a second, that i care for people other than myself.
And not only people but the society i live in as a whole.

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Reminder that 1% of the world has yearly income of 38 000 dollars.

Bottom 50% is poor as fuck. So fucking poor its not even funny. Theyre multiplying like crazy too, just look at fucking africa and projections about population there. Of course the gap is becoming wider

Also 62 richest people have their wealth tied into their corporations, its not money in the bank.

>>126175982
I bet you are a virgin

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>>126176643
>not an argument

kys jidf. you literally have ZERO arguments for central banking. give me ONE. unless we are in a time of extremely harsh war, i mean what else could their possibly be. can you give me any? any at all? waiting.

>>126176569
Then go ahead and care for them, nothing is stopping you. Your proposed solution though for some reason involves killing people and forcing the ones you don't kill to "care for other people" under pain of death. It makes me think you have different motivations.

>>126176365
>>126176244
Why do you think people have to be communists to criticize capitalism?

>>126168569
No, because the feudal lord had a sacred obligation to care about his subjects and provide for them, and they could just up and murder him in his sleep if they didn't like him.

Also, culture, free time/recreation, spiritual enlightenment and such were independent of him.

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>>126176569
>>126168881
It also seems we're doing a pretty good job legitimately improving people's lives with privatization. Pic related, mid 70s Mao died and China began to privatize under Deng. Same shit in the USSR in the sixties.

>>126176845
I understand your position, but i think you misunderstood mine, because of the picture i posted.
I'm not for jailing and killing rich people. Maybe bigger taxes, that grow exponentially larger so that they prohibit 1000 super rich people from owning the fucking world, without working a day in their life, or being elected to a position of power.
How is that unreasonable?

socialism is feudalism, idiot.

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>>126176643
still waiting. can you give ANY reason for a central bank? hello? or are you just going to throw projectory ad homs all day because mama and papa neva gave u enuf attention? wahh wahh.

still waiting. one reason. go ahead. one. waiting brah.

No that's communism
in capitalism you still are able to gain wealth

>>126177302
Because your taxes go into the welfare state, which every time it exists destroys the country that creates it. Read The Fate of Empires.

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posting random red pills while the hopeless shitskin butt hurt mongrel virgin (ID: 8L06ZSLz) is replying to me.

>>126168569
So, what?

The poorest half the world is a bunch of starving niggers.

The average american has as much wealth as the poorest 10% of the world.

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>>126177302
You want to help the poor, then do it. Don't touch my money, though. You aren't Robin Hood, sorry.

>>126177313
>Collective ownership of everything is the same as private ownership of everything
Made me think

>>126177355
Do you have any book recommendations about central banking?

>>126176818
>>126177355
So... are you? I don't give a damn about the central banks I'm more interested in the mental leaps people will perform to project their inability to get laid and their unwillingness to admit that they are undesirable onto the rest of the world.

research these men, most of their publications on the fed are free.

charles lindberg sr
louis thomas mcfadden
wright patman
ron paul

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>>126177741
nod argumend XDDDDDD

>>126177825
meant for >>126177733

>>126168569

Capitalism is the universalization of monarchical principles. It is saying that we are all Kings and none can question this claim without engaging in some sort of forcible action towards a victim

>>126177497
That's debatable. The most prosperous societies in history are western, modern day, welfare states.

>>126177608
Go to a ghetto with money sticking out of your pocket, and when someone tries to take your money, you should show them that flow chart. I'm sure it will persuade them.

Half the world is niggers and shitskins

>>126178210
How about I shoot them instead. Also, the historic welfare states were very prosperous as well, the point is that it doesn't last. You really going to tell me that the western world seems stable right now? You really can't make the connections? The US is a welfare state too, in case you didn't know.

>>126177741
the OP was about feudalism and i went full retard mode trying to explain how centrally planned economies are feudalism in his indirect but unintentional mistaken manner that we currently live in a capitalist society, and that, feudalism would be better. i'm not interested in what you or i stick our wieners in, but in the moral health of my countrymen, so maybe yours and my children can actually wake up to a country worth living in.

alright back to the vane discussion of sex, back to /lgbt/ you go bucko.

>>126178540
>how about I shoot them
You do realize that people will just shoot you before you will even notice it if the situation is that bad?

>>126178661
Don't project your stupidity on me, please.

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bump

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>>126168569

Yes.

>>126168569
Feudalism is a state-owned society. So no, communism is more like feudalism.

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Keynesian's should be dropped out of helicopters.
Refute this.

Pro tip: You can't.

>>126168881
TRUMP BTFO!

>>126168569

I don't get what people want who call the current system "slavery"

do you want to just hang around getting paid millions for basically nothing like a small, small slice of the population?

sure I'd like that too

the best, most sustainable system is one where people have to put in some effort for a reward

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WE
WUZ
PRINTING
PRESSES
AND
SHIIIIIEEEEEEEEETTTTTTTT

>>126178540
Or instead of living in a wild west nightmare, get involved in politics and help create a:
-racially and ethnically homogeneous
-with a good education system
-welfare for orphans, pregnant women etc.
-strong workers rights
-low corruption
-with good publicly funded infrastructure

And voila you don't have to get involved in gun battles with the poor.
I realize what i suggest is kinda rare and unrealistic, but it is a better ideal than capitalism, whatever that is now days.

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WEEEEEE
WUUUUZZ
GOOOOLD
STAANARD
AANNNNDD
SHHIIIEEEETT

>>126179175
wtf whys this comic forget to mention all the countries where labor won so much that they literally collapsed into oblivion and death by starvation

People who support capitalism are cucks (unless they are rich)

>>126179374
Pretty sure Trumps Chinese manufacturies contributed to lowering global poverty, so no.

>>126168569
The problem is corporatism and free trade, not capitalism. We need to start busting the big firms like we did in the early part of the last century. Competition is what makes capitalism great, and that's what we're currently lacking

imagine being able to loan infinite money and get paid interest on it
you make infinite money unless theres a run
and when there is a run (2008) you actually just print more to pretend there wasnt one LOL
you start with nothing and end with everything by just taking the small yield every year
its a pretty cool trick
GAS THE FUCKING KIKES

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WEEEEEE
WUUUUUUZZZZ
SAAATAANISSTSSS
ANNNNNNDDDDDDDD
SHIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEET

>>126179452
>racially and ethnically homogeneous
yes
>with a good education system
So a private one.
>welfare for orphans, pregnant women etc
Why can't their husbands support them? We already went over why the welfare state is a bad idea.
>strong workers rights
So stop them from being forced into unions, gotcha.
>low corruption
Make a government without power to be corrupt (hint, this means low government spending and low taxes)
>with good publicly funded infrastructure
Japanese monorails are private, and are much better than anything we have in Europe, so that'd be privatized too.

>>126172628
>But i don't think anyone really needs that kind of money to begin with

But that is subjective and it implies you know more about where resources should be.

How do you now that exactly?

>Humans need food, drink, friends, lovers, hobbies, work.

Human want wtv will make them happy but resources are limited regardless if desires are infinit.

>You don't need a million dollars to be happy.

Not true at all. You are happy when a hospital has a million to provide you with the machinery to save your life.

Furthermore, a million depending on the value of the unit can be worth shit.

>And people having too much money is bad for other people.

No it is not, but it is a symptom of something going awfully wrong.

In a Capitalist economy, your money is never idle. it is lended, traded or bonded. Meaning that the more people have money the cheaper large investment get. And the poor need this.

>Even ancient Greek philosophers like Plato and Aristotle emphasized the importance of relative wealth equality.

Plato though that humans were chickens with plumage...
Aristotle though men should not look at there children too much because it encourages degeneracy.

And Aristotle literally wrote that wealth accumulation is a necessity in the pursuit of happiness as it generates self-sufficiency.

Your argument is like the "Real Adam Smith" argument from Noam Chomski. aka cherry picking

>There was another one i was looking for, but i can't find it right now, so i will type it from memory. The gist of it was.

yes temperance is a virtue. but here Aristotle makes an observation. He is not prescribing and saying therefor wealth is bad and having less wealth is good. It goes with the model he proposes too(defficiency, mean, blahblah)

Furthermore, Aristotles critique is an observation on the deficiency of man(human) and not a claim that wealth accumulation is intrinsically bad

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Hello. My name is John. Mom and dad never gave me enough attention when I was a child. So I need to seek it from other places. I care about the world. I care about it so much I decided to join the military. Surrendering my conscience to an elite group of dark occult, child raping, blood drinking, murderous, gematria ritualistic, demon worshiping kikes was the best choice I ever made. Thanks mom and dad! Wow I love following orders! Wow I love Satanism! Wow I love Moral Relativism! Thank GOD I have no personal responsibility anymore. Yee ha!

>>126168881
Would be interested in how they defined "poverty" in the 1800s. Most people lived off the land on family farms back then. So they had little income but it's not like they were miserable either. Personally I'd rather be a yeoman farmer than a wage slave.

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>>126168569

No. It is the system which defeated and replaced feudalism.

You see a lot of things under capitalism that look like feudalism. This is because both societies are ordered into social classes.

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>>126177313
>>126177396
>>126179284

Why are only Americans this retarded?

>"States" were basically private property owned by royalty
Why is that so hard to understand?

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>>126179947
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSqBNGxLiAs

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Well, no shills are biting. It was fun. Cya lads.

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>>126168985

We tried socialism.

We can try left-libertarianism -- they're doing that in Rojava right now, in Syria.

Anarchism has also legitimately worked for short periods of time until it was destroyed by predatory authoritarian states.

>>126179284
>State
>Hereditary power weilded by private individuals and not institutions
Pick one

>>126180035
this is a nice picture thanks

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>>126170005

You're awakening.

Here's something to ruminate on: personal vs. private property.

Of course everyone should have a home, transportation to get to work, clothes, little things for enjoyment and entertainment. Few disagree with this. This is what's called "personal property."

Owning a factory thousands of miles away that you rarely, if ever, even visit, and which makes you money whether or not you do any work for it -- that's "private property."

I believe in personal property rights. Private property is just another way of saying "stealing natural resources and killing anyone who challenges you on it."

>>126180153
>Anarchism has also legitimately worked for short periods of time until it was destroyed by predatory authoritarian states.

so basically it doesnt work because it is unable to respond properly to outside bodies

meaning that it fails to generate enough resources to do this and that in effect the invader will get more value from the resources on the land if the anarchist people are not there to labor for him.

that is like a major fail in functions

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>>126173179

People are starving to death in the wealthiest country on earth.

>>126179666
I agree with Satan. Kill all the bankers.
Gas kikes race war now.

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>>126180481
>should
Succ me, fag. Come back when ya got some arguments ahahahaha

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Why is this such a big deal to people? Can they really not stand the fact that rich people exist?

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>>126180515

The solution is to annihilate the bourgeoisie and therefore never have to fear again the capitalist state which goes to war to enrich its masters.

>>126180515
"In my perfect world, nobody would bully me"
t. anarchist

>>126181017
Good look, I hope you kill all the Chads and bullies once and for all, so you never get bullied again.

>>126180481
>Attempting to distinguish between personal property (not capital) and private property (capital) by defining which generate wealth when in fact all property generates wealth or some other benefit regardless of its status as personal/private

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>>126168985
We should go back to this

>>126179916
Those are good arguments honestly.
And i agree with some of them.
like:
>Why can't their husbands support them? We already went over why the welfare state is a bad idea.

But i disagree on some of them.
For example there are some public school systems much better than private ones.
Finland vs USA.
The least corrupt states in the world are states like Germany and the UK. I honestly don't know any government in the world that has no power to be corrupt. Provide an example if you can.
Japanese monorails are great, but so are German highways.

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>>126180778

It will be funny when your family is mounted on pikes for defending the holocaust perpetuated every day by the bourgeoisie.

>>126180926

The rich do no work for their money, and yet billions work themselves to death and starve for it. The only way for capitalists to make money is to steal.

>>126168985
gibs me more of dat welfare

>>126181309
Resorting to violence means you know you've lost the argument.

>>126179957
You can join the Amish. That's essentially how they live. These days I sometimes wonder if they don't have it right and we all have it wrong.

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>>126179957
Have you ever farmed or lived off the land. Not as a modern commercial farmer but as a man who works 25 hours a day to keep his familiy fed? If you have children you will need more land and they will have to work it aswell. It gets to the point where you have to decide which child lives and which dies if you have a bad year or can't get any more land. Fuck that. I've heard enough stories about the great dust bowl from people who lived it to know where that leads. There is a reason only huge corparations are left in the agriculture industry. They are the only ones that can survive bad years.

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>>126181260

Wealth is irrelevant. What wealth is greater than a fulfilling and enjoyable life full of important work?

What you call "wealth" here is actually value, which you would know if you read books. You can produce all you want with capital and generate no wealth, even by your definitions. Only by robbing the worker of the value of their work can you "generate wealth."

All value is made by applying work to raw materials. Raw materials come from nature, which is shared unless stolen. Work is done by workers.

Ergo, capitalists are leeches and worker rule is inevitable because they are the only vital component of any organization of people.

>>126181290

How about we just not have governments?

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>>126168569
In a feudal system, lords had a responsibility to protect and provide for their serfs. Feudalism produced beautiful castles and cathedrals, as well as charming towns (pic related). Capitalism had produced nothing aesthetically pleasing. Instead it has led to the global proliferation of parking lots, glass boxes, and fast food chains. The capitalists have managed to accrue more wealth than any feudal lord could have dreamed of. Yet unlike the lord, the capitalist has zero responsibilities toward his people. But hey, at least gays can marry now!

>>126181017
>Killing the wealthy and taking their wealth to give it to yourself will stop people from seeking wealth
Fucking materialists

>>126168569
no.

under a feudal system, the plebs can't just quit their job and go work for another employer. they're bound to the manor by generational oaths of fealty.

this is why you see capitalism arise after the black death. that was the first time since feudalism was established that you had a "sellers market" in labor. Lords needed workers, but there was a labor shortage, and so peasants had a bargaining chip for the first time.

the more industrious of these peasants end up becoming the predecessors to the bourgeoisie, who eventually supplanted the nobility as chief property owners.

we're definitely not under feudalism again. it's just that the bourgeoisie/proletariat dichotomy has replaced the Lord/peasant dichotomy.

>>126171194
but In capitalism Intelligent people always have the chance of becoming rich through inventing new machines or starting their own business only if they have enough good credit though in communism everyone ends up being poor except for the party leadership

>>126180481
>Here's something to ruminate on: personal vs. private property.

heres how this makes no sense.

If I take my "personal property" and make it something productive. when does it stop being mine?

If it is MY "personal property" what prevents me from lending it at a a price or a cost?

>Of course everyone should have a home, transportation to get to work, clothes, little things for enjoyment and entertainment. Few disagree with this. This is what's called "personal property."

maybe in your circle of dementia. Truth is, a person can not want any of these and have it assumed that he is poor. It's called freedom.

>wning a factory thousands of miles away that you rarely, if ever, even visit, and which makes you money whether or not you do any work for it -- that's "private property."

No, what your talking about it your own lack of knowledge and you prejudice.

Owners are there everyday and they work. If they do not, they are the one taking in the risk associated with large investments.

Private property is wtv you have exclusive right of usage. The only reason why you have labourers is because you want to do more with it then you can personally.

Arab emir's own humans. They have wealth but they are not Capitalist and do not live or support a system of universal property ownership.

>I believe in personal property rights.

So basically you support something without proper reasons else then maybe it makes you feel virtuous or vain in some fashion.

>Private property is just another way of saying "stealing natural resources and killing anyone who challenges you on it."

Theft implies original ownership by someone or contractually owned by more then a person.

unowned stuff, basically anything that is not originally appropriated or claimed with proper justification(original appropriation, exchange or gifting) cannot be stolen.

hey that bill gates guy has money in the order of 10^12 i don't think there's anything wrong, he just worked 1000000000 times harder than most people

>>126181290
>Germany and the UK aren't corrupt
These are both Police states. Child rape gets covered up, you speak out against it and you go to jail, fucking disgusting, terrible examples for lack of corruption.
Public schooling in all western countries is Marxist brainwashing camp, believe me, I wen't to Canadian public school. It's why I want to home school my kids.

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>>126181504

Agree. You depend on state violence for your ideology to work. That's why you're going to lose.

>>126181751

You're forgetting about the fascist welfare queens who voted for Trump in the countryside. Private farmers are everywhere. Try leaving the suburbs, bougie.

>>126181017

So kill those who manage the maintenance of Capital value?

interesting!

>>126181793
>Labor-centric valuation
Dropped

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Found this the other day. Relevant

>>126182097
>>126177608
Try refuting this, please.

>>126173959
they never do everyone ends up destitute communism is a horrible system of government and millions of people die every time a retard like you attempts it

>>126181290
The US's school system is mostly public and private schools here outperform public ones insanely, although IMO not because they are private but mostly because of demographics. Still, the US doesn't have a private school system, it's mostly public so the argument doesn't really apply.

>>126181949
assuming your not just working for a different company controlled by the same overlords.

>>126181793
LTV is trash dude, already refuted in this image.>>126180778

>>126168569
Thats highly deceptive because it goes by net worth and somebody just getting out of college has a net worth of -$50,000. Also here is the pareto principle explained. Also known as the 80:20 rule, Pareto is the law of the vital few, and the principle of factor sparsity that states, for many events, roughly 80% of the effects come from 20% of the causes. Coined by Italian economist Pareto who found that 80% of the land in Italy was owned by 20% of the population. There seems to be no field this law does not apply and can be applied to many aspects of life, 80% of sales come from 20% of customers, 80% of health care in the U.S is consumed by 20% of the population, 20% of people control 80% of the worlds money, 80% of tweets are tweeted by about 20% of users. If you have 10,000 employees, 100 of them will produce half of the goods and services. Also if you look at the numbers since capitalism has been introduced, poverty has dropped worldwide about 70%.

>>126177302
but nobody handed those 1000 their wealth for free
their ancestors had to work to acquire it and they passed it on to their offspring

>>126176882
the system isn't perfect but it's the best one there is

>>126168569
But it le doesn't le matter because le niggers!!! xDDD!!!

>>126181594
It's very difficult, if not impossible, to go "back to the land" once entered into modernity. That's why Evola says the only viable option is to "ride the tiger" and why Marx embraced dialectical materialism

>>126182811
Amish live better than you.

>>126182560
if the data in the OP was accurate it would be much worse because there are a fuckton of eich people with undeclared wealth and royal families and alikes are not counted.

for example it os estimated that putin has 10billion$ minimum

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>>126181594
The Amish are a brand name. They are Trademarked Super Capitalists who just happen to live like it's still the 1800s. Most of their income comes from selling shit to non Amish or building things for non Amish. If they ever have a bad year farming they just buy what they need from others and roll around in their fat stacks of cash since they have 21st century corparation levels of income and 18th century individual levels of expense In short they are minmaxing the shit out of economics.

>>126168881
Slave societies saw rising standards of living for basically everyone. Slaves were much better off in 1850 than in 1750. Is that a justification for slavery?

>>126182996
Slavery violates the NAP

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>>126170270

>>126175982
>not REAL capitalism (TM)!!!

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>>126181839

All nonsense sentimentalism to prop up the parasitic feudalist ruling classes.

>>126181917

You don't understand how this works because you don't read or make any serious effort to learn about politics. You should apply yourself, anon.

Anyway, "their wealth" will not be taken, it will be destroyed.

>>126181949

This.

>>126181986

We all went through 8th grade too, anon. You don't need to expend so much energy on this.

>>126181987

Legitimate use of something makes it personal property. Houses are for living in, not leveraging to exploit other people and enrich yourself. Therefore if you have more than one house, the one you don't live in is private property, which is enforced through the violence of the state. This is actually very simple.

People are free to be poor in any system. To paraphrase Lenin's quoting of Christ, If a man does not work, neither shall he eat.

Capitalists work because they want to. Warren Buffett doesn't have to work, he just wants to. Taking just what he will earn this hour, from 12 to 1 EST, he can live the rest of his life in luxury. For capitalists, work is pleasure.

That is the point of owning things for a living.

Original appropriation was just people putting fences around things and killing people who crossed the fence. That was theft because those things belonged to everyone. Now such property rules are enforced by state violence.

>>126182098

Anyone can do this. We don't need a class of parasites to do it nominally while mostly enriching themselves.

>>126182203
If they actually counted every richest person, their wealth combined would be stratospherically high

>>126180481
>should
Fuck off retard. Nobody should have anything, everyone should have right to work for it.

>>126181839
Art Deco was nice, old Gothic skyscrapers in Chicago are beautiful, it isn't capitalism that is causing our souls to rot, it's our rotten souls that destroy anything they touch.

>>126183161
I pay property taxes no problem. Income tax is what perturbs me.

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>>126180778
>>126183255
>being so autistic you have to be an ancap or a commie
>not looking at history and realising that kenysianism is the ultimate economic redpill

>>126178540
we have welfare food stamps here and the governments even giving out free cellphones to people on welfare so they can receive get phone
calls from potential employeers

>>126177355
I think that's a quote of Alexis de Tocqueville.

>>126183446
Fine, I support less tax on salaries and more tax on (((rent))) income and capital gains

>>126181839
good point but unfortunately we can't trade in pretty buildings at asda for food

>>126179175
nobody's arguing against unions were arguing against communism

>>126168569

Just because someone is turbo rich doesn't mean you're poor.

You instinctively think that's the case because for the vast amount of human history if someone in the tribe had loads of resources that meant they really were an asshole withholding them from you and there was so little to go around you'd be fucking starve to death because of them.

But in the modern day some rich cunt can have literally a million times the resources you do and you would still have an easy as fuck life where you'd never have to worry about starvation and you yourself would still have a million times the resources of someone who is actually so poor they're worried about starvation.

And those people are almost non-existent in the most capitalist countries because capitalism is such an efficient system at generating wealth that people literally give away food to those in need in the west to such an extent that we're sending money to foreign countries to help their starving we've run out of our own starving to help.

>>126183579
I think most libertarians are quasi-georgists, don't know what your problem with capital gains are, though.

>>126183452
>Keynesianism is responsible for the bubble
>it isn't responsible for the bubble popping
Hmmmm...

>>126183798
>You instinctively think that's the case because for the vast amount of human history if someone in the tribe had loads of resources that meant they really were an asshole withholding them from you and there was so little to go around you'd be fucking starve to death because of them.
It's literally the other way around - if someone in the tribe had loads of resources, you were perfectly free to go into nature either alone or organize with other people, to gather your own resources, because they were abundant and not stolen by anyone who had any power of enforcement over them.

Meanwhile, if you're poor now, you can't even go outside and pick and apple because it's already been stolen by someone and is protected by the state, and you can't even go plant your own apple tree, because the land has been too.

>>126180621
Now they aren't. Even the poorest Americans are obese as fuck. In capitalism you are so well fed you become fat, while in socialism you just starve until your ribs print when you wear a shirt.

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>>126182097
Yeah and they don't live or farm like it is the 1800s. Finish highshool and learn reading comprehension before associating literally everything with Trump. Bourgeoisie is an oppressive term used by privileged white individuals such as Stalin and Lenin who refuse to provide for themselves to falsely shame the uneducated working class into giving them money... I pray to god that someone bullies (you) so bad that (you) kill yourself before school starts up again. Here have an honorary rake.

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>>126182152

>not having an argument

This is your brain on not reading.

I bet you're actually super smart, you just do badly in school because you're lazy, right?

And you make pennies right now, but that's just because you haven't applied yourself and any day now you're going to be a titan of industry, right?

>>126182243

Sure. This little graphic makes a pretty common mistake you see in every right-authoritarian circle, which is the assumption that private property is somehow innate.

Their holding onto property and land and removing it from the community is itself an act of violence and theft. No one really owns land, and only some property is arguably owned.

Now if they just say "fuck all you guys" and stop participating and stay in their house, whatever.

If they have somehow been allowed to "own" (more likely, "manage") all the food-producing land in the community, their removing it is violence.

Also, the people rising up and taking or demanding something isn't what "authority" is. If there was an "authority" of the masses, we would already be at their mercy because they are greater than us.

A state or a company, both small groups of people, or a single person, exercise "authority" -- a claim to power and right to divvy out justice.

Google "authority definition."

Basically the root problem of this graphic is that it's written by a person who thinks that capitalism exists without a state, and that somehow you can be non-authoritarian capitalist. Thus the bitter anger at leftist who probably make fun of them a lot for not understanding how anything works.

Here's a tl;dr: it's fundamentally flawed because "property" is a legal fiction, a product of people getting together, agreeing on certain things, and putting in place an architecture of "legitimate" force in order to enforce the agreement.

>>126174455
>No, you want to live a well off life but view yourself as incapable of doing this on your own and instead want society to be able to take care of this for you.
If society doesn't create decent living conditions for its members, can you please explain to the audience what the point of a society even is?

>>126176311
>no modern informational technology to interfere with your religious beliefs
this is the type of stuff that puts me off being religious
it literally seems like you're putting wool over your own eyes and blindly believing something which is very likely false

>>126183798
the thing is that someone with a billion dollars can give half of his money to people who would starve otherwise and still have so much they can simply stop working for their entire life

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>>126181309
Most billionaires are self-made you dumb marxist fuck.

https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/269593

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>>126183289

There is no right to work under capitalism.

Only under anarchism do you have the right to work.

Also, chew on this: the welfare state is a capitalist invention to stave off revolutionary feelings in the exploited masses.

>>126183976
2008 happened because of supply side economics (over-investment in capital that wasn't matched by demand), that's babby-tier economic knowledge.

Just look at the incidence of financial crises since (((Reagan))) and (((Thatcher))) introduced monetarism and neoliberalism to the west.

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>>126181309
whaaa I don't have any arguments to support communism whaaa

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>>126168569
/Thread

>>126183452
>shitting on hong kong

Top cuck. HK is one of the richest places on earth with one of the highest HDIs. Don't compare it to communisy third world shitholes.

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>>126184733
>creates strawman
>/threads itself

Hello r/libertarian

>>126184386
I build a machine, can I pay someone a wage to use it?

>>126184386
Also, what is "dictatorship of the proletariat"

>>126184386
I didn't present an argument because LTV is on flat Earth levels of idiocy; I don't argue with the insane.

>>126168569
I wish there was a way to implement communism WITHOUT the government becoming over powered and oppressive

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>>126185238

>>126184387
Society doesn't create living conditions for its members, the members do. Sine the members of modern western society are so corrupt, there's no point for one. Luckily, I don't live in the west.

>>126168569
That's because these fucking morons include Africa and the poor regions of the world. If they just put the billionaires of Europe/US, that number would be substantially smaller.

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>>126184167

America is facing extremely high levels of food insecurity right now. As in millions are skipping one or more meals, don't know where they're going to get food for the next day, etc. Look up hunger in America on wikipedia if you want a quick look.

Many poor people are fat because they're poorly nourished. They're still not getting the nutrients they need, but are suffering severe health problems due to obesity anyway.

This is because capitalism is an inefficient distributor of resources.

>>126184303

Man you're mad. You must have some relatives collecting welfare checks in Indiana or Iowa or something.

Bourgeoisie predates those two by hundreds of years and its meaning hasn't changed much.

>>126184387

Keep pushing, comrade. Beat the fascists out.

>>126184507

>www.entrepreneur.com

>wealthx.com

these are good sources

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Communism is the greatest failure throughout history. Just look at what happened after China switched to a capitalist economy during the late 70s by Deng Xiaoping.

>China's economic growth since the reform has been very rapid, exceeding the East Asian Tigers. Economists estimate China's GDP growth from 1978 to 2013 at between 9.5% to around 11.5% a year. Since the beginning of Deng Xiaoping's reforms, China's GDP has risen tenfold.[29] The increase in total factor productivity (TFP) was the most important factor, with productivity accounting for 40.1% of the GDP increase, compared with a decline of 13.2% for the period 1957 to 1978—the height of Maoist policies. For the period 1978–2005, Chinese GDP per capita increased from 2.7% to 15.7% of U.S. GDP per capita, and from 53.7% to 188.5% of Indian GDP per capita. Per capita incomes grew at 6.6% a year.[30] Average wages rose sixfold between 1978 and 2005,[31] while absolute poverty declined from 41% of the population to 5% from 1978 to 2001.[32]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_economic_reform#Economic_performance_since_reform

Poverty rates declined from a whopping 41% under Mao's communism to 5% under capitalism.
Marx was a fucking fraud and a charlatan. His theories have caused nothing but devastation and collapse. They have not worked despite many attempts.

>>126185402
That didn't answer the question at all. What is the point of a society? So far you just said that capitalist society (modern western) has no point. Which society does then? You live in a globalized modern western capitalist society too. How does your society differ in what it provides to its members?

>>126184974
I hope this is intentionally ironic.

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>>126184733

>bring the lower classes into the middle class

lol @ proving you don't know what you're talking about in your first sentence

>>126185025

What's "a wage?" Are you going to pay them the value of their labor, with a small portion going to pay you for the value of yours? Or are you going to pay him a tiny fraction of what his work is worth and reap the benefits of his work for yourself?

>>126185238

Join the anarchist revolution, comrade.

>>126185119

Why wouldn't the people who do and make everything direct society? And if everyone is a worker, and contributing, everyone is part of the "dictatorship."

>>126180716
heres the root problem to everything
there are no rules or systems that can solve this
what we need are white genetics where people naturally arent maximally exploitative assholes that they are everywhere else in the world
the rules of the game dont fucking matter when everyones cheating

>>126183137
Poland's existence violates the NAP.

>>126182443
monopolies are illegal and unions and minimum wage laws are there to prevent unfair wages and unsafe working conditions it's not perfect and the system can always be improved but it's hell of a lot better than communism where your forced to work and you can't earn more than a set amount of money and all companies are government owned so you are always working for the same employer

>>126185710
The point was that you are relying on society to provide for you like every other Balkan in this thread.

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>>126185439
>America is facing extremely high levels of food insecurity now

Bullshit. Provide a link right now to substianate this.

Nobody is starving to death in America or dying of malnutriton. The problem we have is people being obese because they eat too much and die of heart disease.

Contrast this with countries like socialist shitholes like Venezuela and other Latin American as well as failed socialist states in Africa like Somalia where people are literally starving to death.

Pro-tip: "Hunger" in America or the rest of the first-world is not defined the same or even remotely comparable to hunger in the rest of the world.

>these are good sources
>"i-it's just c-capitalist propaganda!"

>Most Americans with $1 million or more in assets made their money on their own, according to a study by BMO Private Bank released today.
http://www.fa-mag.com/news/most-millionaires-self-made--study-says-14565.html

Neck yourself stupid Marxian fuck.

>>126186312
>than communism where your forced to work and you can't earn more than a set amount of money and all companies are government owned
facepalm.jpg

Is this really how communism is defined by the American school system?

>>126186374
I'll ask for the third time: what's the point of a society?

>>126186097
I'm going to pay them what we decide they will receive. It's called investment, by the way, since I built the machine I want a return on my investment.

>>126186097
Also, once again, you aren't an anarchist, since you control what people can do with their property,

>>126186433
>socialist shitholes like Venezuela
Funny how those "socialist shitholes" somehow only become socialist shitholes after CIA/IMF coups.

>>126186097
>>126185557
Nice pic of China, by the way.

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>most ex-ussr countries are better off now than they ever were under communism

https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/shleifer/files/normal_countries_draft_sept_12_annotated.pdf

Leftypol is a joke.

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>>126186217
>there are no rules or systems that can solve this

Social Nationalism would solve everything /pol/ complains about

>>126168569
It can be. Depends how much innovation and competition is permitted. Seem to be going that route tho.

>>126186669
Venezuela failed on its own dumbfuck. The CIA boogeyman wasn't there.

>>126177302
the only way to achieve communism is through killing people it may not be how it starts but it's always how it ends rich people will leave your country if the taxes are too high since they can run their businesses just as easily elsewhere

>>126186466
There is no "point" to society, it's not an entity with a goal. I thin the answer you were looking for was "to tuck me in at night and feed me".

>>126186301
Do something about it then tough guy.

>>126168569
My pussy is really wet please teach more history cunt

>>126179916
nobody should be forced into a union but people should pay union dues in order to enjoy the benefits of a union other that that I agree

>>126186555
Finishing qads

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>>126187083
I will be the first to volunteer for your liberation.

>>126186994
>>There is no "point" to society, it's not an entity with a goal.
Jesus Christ.

>>126168569
Don't know why you guys are always blaming capitalism when it's the government intervention in the market that's causing this. Government forces me to pay this amount of money $$$ for a particular service that isn't worth that much and I can't negotiate for less. I'm a small business owner, don't thousands of paid lawyers who are going to find a loophole in the law to help my business.

>>126187712
Tell me what it is then, since you seemingly have the answers.

>>126179957
the amish are starting to have problems with inbreeding so I'm sure they'd love new blood

>>126179916
>>126179916
>>with a good education system
>So a private one.

wow, you really have been brainwashed by neo-lib propaganda aka our schools, universities

just like the food industry in a non regulated market, where you eat and drink chemicals. move to the us and live ur dream. cheese, orange juice, joghurts everything is artifical and tastes like shit. or lets take the energy corporations that solve the storage of depleted urianium by making weapons out of it damagin the genome of everyone who comes close to the spot the weapon hit.

our western countries hit its prime when we had huge redistribution (after ww2 US and germoney had maximum income tax of 90% even on capital income) and our workers werent competing with chinese workers. free market maximizes the prosperity of the company owner but without redistribution that system doenst maximize the overall prosperity.

>>126187712
Actually, I think I get your question now, the answer would be to facilitate exchange of goods.

>>126171194
>Too discredited
What was discredited about it? Its not a luxurious system for sure, but when it was around in Europe it was what stabilized the continent from complete anarchy, while keeping the Church and traditions at the center of everybody's life.

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Capitalism is worse than feudalism.

Fascism is the answer.

>>126187943
When you think capitalist do you imagine a fat man in a top hat sitting on a bile of bags with dollar signs on them? Unfortunately, if you hoard all your money in you bank account, you tend to not be rich for very long. Bill Gates' net worth is so high not because he literally has billions of dollars in his account, but because he has billions of dollars invested. Also, you seriously going to tell me public schools and public universities are better than private ones? Fuck off, there's a reason more than half of the best Universities in the world are in the US.

>>126187943
Also, enjoy drinking birth control piss, thanks government!

>>126188488
This image makes no sense. Nazi Germany was a capitalist economy. Hitler privatized many industries. Wealthy people remained wealthy as long as they weren't jews and taxes wete quite modest.

>>126168985
Real communism was never tried before

this discussion doenst matter as long as the creation of money stays in the power of private banks. money doesnt have to be scarce in a welfare state or in socialism but it always have been because the power of the creators of money has only been taken once last century (nazi germany).

why do we empower private banks to create money out of thin air but the ppl and its state - those who give credibility to the currency - arent empowered to create money?
as long as money isnt created by a socialized organisition, we dont live in a democrazy

>>126188550
see above, money doenst have to be scarce

>>126188674
i drink water out of a well nearby brought to me by my small town. are u familiar with the williamsburg (usa) water disaster? i guess not

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>>126185439
citation needed also the famines in Russia north korea and in China under Mao were nothing compared to a couple of fat kids the dust bowl was devastating but it would have been a million times worse in a country with state controlled media who would cover it up

>>126188877
which industries did hitler privatize?

like the german central bank that was owned by anglo bankers as a result of the treaty of versailles?

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>>126168569
none of it works
rethink it and make a new ideology
>communism does not work because ego of leadership
>capitalism does not work because there is too many leaders
TRASH IT ALL AND REMAKE A NEW IDEOLOGY FROM WHAT WE KNOW!

>>126189192
>>126189507
http://www.ub.edu/graap/nazi.pdf
Also, are you literally saying "just print more money, then everyone will be rich" or am I misunderstanding you?

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>>126189071

not necessarily but globalism definitely is feudalism

>>126189507
https://www.jstor.org/stable/27771569

>>126190143
>ANCAPS thinking they can talk shit about any political ideology
wew

>>126168569
Capitalism is basically feudalism with a couple extra steps. That's why we have "landlords." The system of rents was literally a feudal concept that was updated by capitalists.

>>126190095
no, i have a econmics degree and know what inflation is.

u keep saying that we need rich ppl for investments. either the rich invest directly or have their money deposited and the bank lend their money, right?
but thats not how banks operate. deposited money is never touched while giving out loans. lending money is just an accounting record. receivables go up, while also liabilities increase on the banks balacne sheet. so the money was created out of thin air. the deposited money and the equity just limits the banks ability to create money out of thin air.
in a system in which banks are always rescued by the taxpayer, the power of money creation should not be privatized but instead be a fourth power, the monetative.

since ww2 western economies grew 8 times while the money supply grew 40 times (inflation already considered).

empowering a fourth power to create money for the ppl, for the government as long as it doenst create inflation makes a lot of sence. why should money be scarce for those whos credibility keeps a currency alive?

-
hitler also nationalzized private banks. you are cherry picking. the nat soc economy isnt black or white, it is capitalism as long as it serves the ppl, if its not its socialism

>>126188877
You know, not only NS Germany was fascist back then.

>>126187790

Goddamn you're so brainwashed by neoliberalism you actually think society has no point and no goal.

If you think society has no point and no goal, then try living all by yourself innawoods for a couple of months.

The point of society is to rule nature for the benefit of that society.

Whatever strenghtens the society is good. Whatever weakens it is bad.

>>126181034
Underrated

Feudalism where you can purchase and sell land? I hope you're fucking trolling.

>>126168569
Yes, with the added step that lordship is open to everyone so to maintain an underclass, they import unintelligent brown people.