A9 overheating

other than including tiny ass micro fans, sony could simply have better air flow by either opening up gaps or making the body larger, OR make more efficient firmware for processors and/or sensors, whichever is heating up as their on-time is ridiculous.

idk why and how they can't fix a simple design flaw being a huge company.

>>3084657
i think they should buy panasonic processors instead of qualcomm housefire.

>>3084657
buy a white or silver camera, goy.

>>3084657

Too early to tell if it is really an issue or if he was doing something stupid.

There are no other review or comments about this than that one video.

>>3084680
It took 2 seconds, posted before the the video https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/59619176

>user error
Christ man people aren't sticking Sony cameras in skillets

>>3084683
>https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/59619176
>spend the $350 and get the grip, it will eliminate the issue.

Spend even more money if you want a camera that won't fry in your hands

>>3084657
>A9 overheating
>https://youtu.be/xxGl9Tl6Sao

>Why doesn't any other brand have this issue?

My Nikon D750 also overheats after long use of liveview/video recording. Also gets really hot to the touch behind the screen.

>>3084689
Pushes the price up to nearly 5000. Not much of a saving anymore then compared to other flagships.

>>3084742
Yep, you are better off with a D5 or a 1DX MkII. With the canon you also save the cost of an adapter and use the lenses natively on the first party body. No more third party body AF issues.

>>3084755
We'll I meant more from a jump system perspective. But you are correct in all those points.

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>>3084657
>Couldn't a simple change to the body composition fix this? Or even a small surface area increase. I don't get it.

The bottleneck is transferring heat to the surrounding air.

A BIG surface area increase will likely do it.
Think heat fins on the exterior.
Something similar to pic related.

Alternatively they could use a fan and a small heat block.

I think both designs are just too undesirable to even consider.
Maybe someone will make a cooling case as a 3rd party accessory.

>>3084724
>My Nikon D750 also overheats after long use of liveview/video recording.

Yes, it has nothing to do with Sony.

It's just one of the inherit disadvantages of a mirrorless camera.
Just like a Sony your Nikon will also eat through batteries when in live view, and all that energy is converted to heat which the body then has to get rid of.

Funny, Fujifilm had trouble with the Xpro2 overheating and they simply redesigned it to fix the issue.

Really makes you think.

t. former sonycuck

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>>3084801
Thermoelectric coolers need a massive amount of electricity to function properly, as in reducing 5°C, up to 20°C. Be prepared to bring an extra MASSIVE battery block just to power the cooler block, pic related, Sony A9 with coolGripX (tm). Someone please do the shop job.

Overheating ain't the only problem with sony's. Temperatures below freezing also create issues. The A7RII is no stranger to shutting down in the cold. The already quick draining battery discharges ridiculously fast as well.

It may have been too early for Sony to start taking direct jabs at the Nikon/Canon flagships. We will see how it plays out.

>>3084846
How cold are we talking about? I know I did an ass freezing session of astro one night at -5°C to -10°C with my Pentax and it didn't shut off or even slowed down. I gave up much sooner and waited for a warmer clear night in the positive scale.

>>3084849
Pentax can do it for sure. It's built for it. Nikons and Canons also no issue.

The temperatures in question are from -3 to -10C for the most part. It varies from person to person depending on how they store the camera during their session. If you do a google search, you may be able to find some accounts of people with cold-temperature performance issues.

The Sony body is so compact and despite having almost no moving parts, things contract in size in such cold temperatures. So it may have an impact on something already as compact as the sony. I'm no expert so it's just speculation for me to say that. But Sony is most certainly not exempt from the laws of nature/science.

>a99 ii has the autofocus performance and fps necessary for sports AND an absurdly high res sensor
>Sony's got a legendary line of dedicated video cameras with professional tier cooling
>neither of them overheat

So what the fuck is the point of mirrorless again?

>>3084862
Consumers, soccermoms and goons. This is what drives capitalism.

>>3084657
It's stupidly simple: resistive heating+ inadequate cooling= overheating. When you put current through something, it will heat up. The more current and the more the resistive load, the greater the heating (camera circuits have a lot of both).

Cram that shot in a tiny space with zero air flow and an insulating skin that's colored to get maximum heating from light, and you're just compounding your problems.

>>3084867
White color while gets less radiated heat also radiates less heat out. Black body design radiates the most heat away. But body color only affects considerably at high temperatures, starts becoming measurable at 80°C.
Body color has no real effect here, inadequte heat dissipation, crammed internals and inefficient code gives most of the heat issues.

>>3084867
>>3084872
Also
>insulating skin
citation needed. What insulation are you talking about? I thought it was a metal body design.

>>3084872
> only important at high temperatures
Nope. Depends more on insolation and airflow. Still air on a 30°, but sunny day, especially at higher altitudes and in drier air can see heating spike. A middle value color would actually be the best.

>>3084873
Metal and plastic. And unless you're positing that the materials used allow completely unrestrained flow of heat through them, then they're insulating. And yes, in many cases, it wouldn't be enough to matter, but in the case of Sony cameras, since the other heat dissipation tactics employed are ass, the bit of slowdown in heat transfer created by the case is a big deal.

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>>3084889
Dude, Stefan-Boltzmann equation. Radiation of heat is much lower efficiency and needs a lot of temperature difference, but it increases by the power of 4.
Metal and plastic in a pro design? Damn.

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Damn!

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Dayum!
I'm beginning to think Sony suffers from accute upper management retardation.
You can't honestly have a design with plastic frames on pro levels.

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>>3084893
>>3084894
>>3084895
One more to rub it in.

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>>3084893
>>3084894
>>3084895
>>3084897
but me toooooo

>>3084902
Lol, inner frame is cast magnesium, not steel

>>3084904
Wait so what's the difference between this and the other DSLR bodies in the pictures above?

>>3084905
The inner steel frame is not cast alloy but made from steel plate that has much better heat conductivity (due to anisotropy) than cast alloy. Actually cast metals have generally much poorer heat conductivity than rolled plates because impurities and casting defects. Also cast alloys are isotropic and are not as rigid structurally as rolled plate based structures, not to mention ALL cast alloys have inner stress from casting that causes warps on even a simple ding on the body.

>>3084912
>>3084905
Additionally, the steel frame makes sure that no matter how the outer chassis warps, the precision optics mounted on the steel frame will stay in tolerance.

>>3084912
>>3084915
So in other words, it's not so sturdy and at the same time it's really bad at letting heat out? well that sucks.

>>3084809
> Just like a Sony your Nikon will also eat through batteries when in live view, and all that energy is converted to heat which the body then has to get rid of.
It's not the display that creates THAT much heat though. It creates some heat, but that could easily be dissipated (works for a lot of devices we all know, eh).

But the high resolution data processing, that creates heat. Shitload of data from sensor at rapid intervals goes through various processing stages and eventually to storage.

And I guess the Japanese don't design the camera for every climate possible and are unwilling to stick on giant unwieldy heat sinks or lower the specs (you can choose lower specs, but marketing and users want the higher specs). So basically, it works in many situations, but not all, 'cause this seems to be working at the limits of what's feasible on a small device like this.

>>3084917
Yep, and any rough treatment can turn it against you, warping inside and tilting the sensor out of alignment.

>>3084919
Canon and Nikon and Pentax and Olympus and Fuji are all Japanese though. Who else's camera's are we using that aren't Japanese? Contax?

>>3084920
Has there been any documentation of this? Or is the A9 going to be the one that puts all of it to the test since it will be in the hands of photographers who often go out and about in adverse weather conditions?

>>3084929
>Sony photographers
>going out and taking pictures

>>3084929
Basic material science, it is documented from every angle possible.
I deal daily with warped castings. We keep the products in storage for at least 2 weeks and inspect every piece after that to pick out the worst. The problem is the grains are so big not even annealing can make it better.
You have the same forces active in that cast inner frame as well.

>>3084934
So I guess its safe to say that Sony has decided to run a massively overclocked super sensor inside their tiny body, but the downside is that it's exactly that. A powerhouse inside the wrong body type. No wonder the battery goes goodbye so fast.

>>3084940
Yes, it is badly designed. The small form factor makes things very limited so I'm not sure they can do much better than this if they stay with these retarded body rules.
I think if Nikon would make a pro mirrorless, it would be the size of the D5 or the D500 with the same flange distance but without the mirror.
It would be an instant hit, it can mount the old SLR glass or the new mirrorless ones that can go deeper into the body.

>>3084941
Maybe that's what's next on the to-do list for nikon and canon. Well this has been most helpful. Maybe the first Sony thread that was educational and not rampant insults everywhere.

>>3084919
I never said it was the display.

It's the sensor and the electronics needed for the live view (or electronic viewfinder).

>>3084955
> It's the sensor and the electronics needed for the live view (or electronic viewfinder).
Nah. You can watch live view all day long and nothing happens unless you expose the camera to extreme ambient temperatures.

It's not an intrinsic problem of MILC as you'd probably want it to be.


It's just the Sony sensor's immense data streams and the high degree of processing that is applied that creates heat on processors before the data is ready to store *when you actually record on the highest available settings*. [Basically that "100% load" situation that will make any modern CPU pretty warm because really, the thermal limits were why it was limited to that load anyhow.]

Usually the second-most taxing task(s) on the Sonys are already unlikely to ever overheat the camera unless it's a really hot environment they're exposed to.

>>3084964
I guess all that eventually snowballs and becomes the issues we'll slowly see popping up as more people run out with it into all the conditions possible.

Why does Sony want such small bodies anyway? Especially on a camera targeted at professionals. How hard is it to match the body size to the performance level?

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>>3085051
Because compactness was the primary marketing point of Mirrorless under Sony. They wanted to show that all that power and more could be packed into a super micro package, making it seem much more advanced and also to target the audience that did not want to lug around giant cameras. Ironically, you would need to lug around mega size lenses anyways to be on par with pro shooters.

>>3085051
Yea, why don't Sony add more space like is required for a mirror box they don't need to have?

>>3085083

Ergonomic, cooling, battery life, performance, you know. Basic trivial shit like that.

Sony is pushing the whole market to a place where they forgot what 'physic' is.

>>3085086
> Ergonomic
No complaints since they made the grip on most models bigger.

> cooling
People will not buy a camera with a noisy active fan or a lamellar radiator.

> battery life
Is quite well chosen. Small battery in the camera without constantly having to swap.

> performance
Is really good because Sony is (ab-)using its sensor near monopoly and also pushing ahead on upgrading camera internals way more than old Canon and Nikon did for a long while.

The market seems to have a lot of trouble keeping up with Sony on that end in particular.

>>3085094
> Ergo
We get it you have bird hands, stop bragging about it.

> cooling
We're talking about size for heat dissipation, not active cooling. Keep up.

> battery life
How are those square wheels working out for you in bizzaro land?

> performance
Sony is doing exactly what those who say Sony isn't really a camera company expect them to do, focusing on frequent tech updates at the expense of all other consideration. Canon and Nikon, even Fuji are building cameras for photographers. Sony is building playstations that take photos. Their philosphy is tech before work. Look at canikon by comparison they're building workhorses and professionals are sticking with them for a reason. You simply cannot trust a Sony camera for mission critical work. It's not that Sony is holding back all the good tech from these companies, it's that the tech isn't ready for prime time by Canon and Nikon standards.

My first decent digital camera was a sony f717, and it died shortly after the warranty expired. many years later after I already upgraded to canon, i found out there was a class action lawsuit against sony to repair them. I sent it off, and it came back a week later fixed, free of charge. I didn't even pay shipping.

Still won't ever buy a Sony camera ever again.

this is actually the fault of every retard that kept begging the manufacturers for smaller and smaller bodies. if the casing was large enough it wouldn't have this problem

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>>3085119
Umm yeah okay that's nice and all but how would I fit my camera body in my pocket??? I'm fine with carrying the lens since it's just like carrying a more expensive and fragile water bottle.

>>3085127
>how would I fit my camera body in my pocket?
Pocketable cameras is, and has always been, a stupid meme.

>>3085107
> bird hands
No.

> square wheels
That would be the Canon / Nikon choice of "far more than most people shoot in one session, but still less than a professional photographer can feel safe with for a day"

I guess having a bit more weight makes a $xx battery more marketable, and still they are not interfering with that nice ~$350 battery grip market they created.

> size for heat dissipation
I guess you should try nailing that DSLR of yours to a house prior to using a better sensor or otherwise doing more processing. Or just prior to using it as-is, quite many actually also can overheat on video.

> frequent tech updates
That's what competitive tech companies usually do as long as there are still many improvements to be had.

> at the expense of all other consideration
Seems like no matter how technologically good they continue to make their cameras, they'll be just not making it emotionally good enough for you, huh.

> It's not that Sony is holding back all the good tech from these companies
Not only, no. Not like they had a monopoly on all the "computer" type of parts CaNikon also neglected.

> it's that the tech isn't ready for prime time by Canon and Nikon standards
You're looking at two fossils that got so complacent in their duopoly situation that they're now having trouble finding some person to write a decent smartphone app.

Never mind making a team enable that newfangled WLAN thing in a functional way without an extra card a decade after just about every device plus playstation :^) had it internally.

>>3084657
Topkek Sony is such a shit company

>>3085162
Why is it always like this? Take note people. Look at how scatter brained this guy is, how the further in you go the more nonsensical and emotional his statements get. Why do Sony fans always reveal themselves to be faux intellectuals? They react so poorly to the realization that just maybe they didn't make a genius move in choosing the Sony platform. Look at how confident this buffoon is in his terrible opinions. You can't fix these people.

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>>3084902
>that inner cast magnesium alloy

should have used copper heat pipes built into an aluminum frame that's welded/soldered to the main steel frame

>>3085170
>Not having a water cooling block with a fan and radiator mounted on the hotshoe

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>>3085176
>noctua fans

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>>3085173
>Tfw doing Astro photography with an a9

>>3084659
maybe, just maybe, it's a difficult problem
not that you'd be able to comprehend

>>3085218
>A difficult problem

No, it's a design flaw related to the magnesium inner frame, they should have used something more thermally conductive like every other company

>>3085213
at least it comes with the star eating noise reduction firmware

>>3085218
it really isn't. it's as if their business plan is to keep the meme alive.

i repair cameras for a living tyvm

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Every goddamn thread always gets derailed by some Sony maniac.

I get that you are offended by the criticism, but this thread was not there to insult Sony or it's cameras. It was to have a serious intelligent discussion of factors which cause issues in performance and may influence a decision to buy something.

Sony people need to accept the fact more than ever now that the A9 will be put under a microscope of criticism. It was marketed to be BETTER than all the flagship competition. That doesn't mean just in the sensor and image quality area. That means literally EVERYTHING. From the point you remove it from the packaging to the moment you click the shutter on the money making shot in the middle of the jungle.

Sony came out in everyone's faces and so they are going to be held to all the same criticisms and harsh realities that the current front runner's face with their flagship models. If you want to compete on the big boy stage, you will be judged by big boys. Plain and simple.

>>3085354
Here we see a sonygger pretending to be rational in an attempt to backpedal over his previous statements.

>>3085354
> It was to have a serious intelligent discussion
On 4chen? Kys

>>3084657
BUT THE BODY IS SO TINY AND COMPACT

>>3085756
The whole "SO SMALL, SO MUCH POWER" argument is quite literally the same one that RX7 fanboys use. Hell, rotards and sony fanboys probably have some overlap.

>>3085768
It's also incredibly retarded with the Sony Alpha series because:
IT'S THE LENS THAT MAKES THE SYSTEM BIG AND HEAVY, NOT THE BODY.
Yeah, the GH5 looks bulky and big in comparison.
But at least it doesn't overheat while writing at 400mbps and it actually has proper sealing that works.

>>3085774
photography is dead. it's now the era of tech penis measurement.

>>3086120
My dick has an unlimited buffer

>>3086136
My dick zooms from 8mm to 1000mm. Compatible with various sperm filters.

>>3086172
Too bad it shoots at 50mm calls it a day and goes back to 8mm,

>>3086183
Can't blame a sonydick for premature exposure.

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>>3086774
sheeyit! Is that moopco?

>>3086120
>tfw micro 4/3 penis>>3086136

>>3084849
I've used my Fuji x-t1 in around -25 C many times with no issue, except the lens zoom action got a little sticky.

>>3085219
>they should have used something more thermally conductive

Doesn't make much difference.
The total heat build-up would be the same, just a little more evenly.

>>3084657
>Why is this still happening?

* Moore's Law is dead.
* Taking high resolution images requires a certain level of processing power.
* Processing power = heat.
* You can't exactly have vents and a fan in a camera.
* MILC cameras, in particular, have a minimal heat sink available (i.e. the body and metal frame is small by comparison to a DSLR).

>>3086975
>* Taking high resolution images requires a certain level of processing power.
>* Processing power = heat.
>* You can't exactly have vents and a fan in a camera.
>* MILC cameras, in particular, have a minimal heat sink available (i.e. the body and metal frame is small by comparison to a DSLR).

therefore mirrorless cameras will remain inefficient toys until these problems are solved

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From what I have been reading, only a handful of people are having issues with overheating.

Seems to be more of a Quality Control issue that an overheating one, which is MUCH worse imo.

>>3087034
>only a handful of people are having issues with overheating.

only handful of people people have been stupid enough to try using it like the high end DSLR s it's supposed to be killing

>>3087034
Yeah, no. Sony's overheating is never a quality control issue. It's a design issue. The handful of people are the ones using it as Sony advertised it to be used, as a pro sports camera. The people not having an issue are just dicking around with it like your typical gear fags.

>>3087032
apparently the Panasonic G85 and GH5 can shoot video for hours without overheating

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>>3087179
>>3087040

People have been running theirs through torture rests and have been unable to reproduce the overheat error.

If it was just overheating you could buy the battery grip to solve it.

Instead, you have to hope you didn't get a dud. And if you did, good luck getting Sony's warrany service to do anything about it.

>>3087179
So, the dude that non stop live streamed his a9 recording in 4k, in 95 degree weather, in the sunshine, using a black sony lens, and still couldn't get it to overheat was a magician?

Ok.

>>3086853
Taken from the xt1 specs page

>Operating Temperature -10°C - +40°C
>Operating Humidity 10 - 80% (no condensation)

That's a warranty void if you shoot in fog or the desert, kek.

>>3087327
That seems pretty standard. Especially the desert part.

>>3087322
>If it was just overheating you could buy the battery grip to solve it.

"Excuse me this camera I just bought from you is overheating"
>That's because you didn't buy the optional battery grip
"But couldn't you just change it for one that works normally?"
>If you want it to work normally you will have to pay for the grip
"But I don't want the grip, I bought a Sony because it was smaller and lighter. I might just as well have bought a DSLR"

>>3087323
>So, the dude that non stop live streamed his a9 recording in 4k, in 95 degree weather
source?

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>>3087327
>Live in Florida
>Warranty is instantly void

>>3084904
>magnesium has a higher thermal conductivity than steel
>magnesium is lighter and in most cases stronger than steel
Are you retarded?

>>3089733
Magnesium is, first and foremost, so reactive it rips oxygen out of water molecules, so it couldnt stand the average moisture of breath
What you are talking about is a magnesium ALLOY

>>3088221
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eo61t5fH6Qw