A9 is technology of the gods

>>3061486

God's useless. You must suck at photography to be that impress by 20fps

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It must feel weird for Tony when he writes Sony.
It's rhyming with his own name, and is almost identical, except for 1 letter.

But the implication of this outcome means the future is promising for Medium Format, APS-C, 4/3. They all can gain the AF power of DLSR flagships "simply" because of sensor advancement.

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>>3061489
Gods serve well as explanation for things we mortals cannot comprehend. This technology is beyond our understanding, Sony&Tony somehow made mirrorless AF no longer suck.

>>3061497
yep, that right, some things we mortals cannot understand, like, Sony consumers. Mortals can't understand how stupid they are.

>>3061486
I suspect here is far more to this sensor than what we have seen. This sensor is a 3D stacked monstrosity.

It is likely capable of 60 FPS internally for analysis of Exposure / EVF / AF, and then 33% of the frames are exported at 20 FPS externally to outside buffer.

This is just hazardous guessing, but it explains well how the EVF manage to stay fluid and very low latency. Incredible image sensor.

The more we hear coming out of New York and London, the more impressive this Alpha 9 becomes.

Strong general AF also means the Eye-AF will be more accurate and solid than ever.

Tony just tweeted this
>Eye detection in Sony a9 is the first I consider "reliable enough" for serious portraits. Faster, more accurate than DSLRs. Game changing!

>>3061486
What's the big deal if for the same price of just the body of the a9, I can have the D500 along side with the Nikon 200-500mm and the 24-70 f2.8?

>>3061533
>for serious portraits.
Who in his right mind would buy an a9 to shoot portraits?

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>>3061535
Full Frame image quality.

And you will be reminded in the back of your mind every camera in the future will have 3D sensors that have several layers of processors and DRAM buffers. Even small micro 4/3s from Olympus will gain AF that will break your sports camera monopoly.

>>3061535
the only real place the D500 will lose out is in low light performance. that means not just being able to get off an exposure, but also freedom to use a higher shutter speed. this is assuming FX glass. Most of the DX glass is slower in actual light transmission.

>>3061548
Low light performance, and the A9's PDAF array covers 93% of the frame.
AF coverage is the main reason why many people prefer the D500 over the D5 to begin with. Besides pricing. And this AF coverage is in a whole other league.

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The nikonrumor admin was crying in public 2 days ago. Maybe he had some insight on this happening.

>>3061544
>Full Frame image quality.

In good lighting, I'd almost rather have the added reach of APS-C compared to full frame when shooting sports, as I don't have thousands of dollars to drop fast super-telephoto primes.

This is what 20 fps sounds like.

>https://youtu.be/y6iHmGp4nMo

Holy shit.

>>3061486
>af perfect even in dim light
>"dim" light
>perfectly shootable light even on slow film even at 400mm with image stabilisation/monopod
>if you switched to 400 film and a 200/2.8 any decent shooter wouldn't even need IS
Who the fuck is this clown?

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>>3061602
>pic related

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>>3061603

>the jpeg has a7 exif

Wait what?

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>mfw I just bought a d750 as my first full frame a few days ago

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>>3061584
Multiple sources have confirmed this now. This stuff has so much potential for future mirrorless cameras to come.

>>3061552
>AF coverage is the main reason why many people prefer the D500 over the D5 to begin with.
Nah, they just can't afford a D5 and the trinity.

>>3061584
There was actually a bunch of good questions and answers. He presumably had this camera in his hands.
>Q do you get the banding in electronic shutter under florescent lighting?
>A Not that I have seen. 2,000 photos at a crop lit hockey rink and no banding.
>Q DID YOU TEST THE DISTORTION FOR FAST MOVING SUBJECTS?
>A YES I DID and in normal shooting conditions of skaters, runners, sprinters I didn't see any distortion. When I tried hard I could make it happen - but those weren't normal conditions.
Glorious Silent Shutter
- No banding issues
- No mechanical vibration issues
- Minimal distortion issues

Not perfect yet, but getting there slowly.

>Q How does the low light performance compare the the a72 and a7s?
>A Better than the a7R2 - similar to the a7S II but I didn't do any direct side by side so hard to say more than that.
I know of a few people who had tried hard to convince other that Backside illumination is worthless for 24MP and lower resolution. It's time for them to eat some humble pie.

>>3061609
For over 2 grand less it's probably better for what you're doing, unless you absolutely need 20 FPS burst or insane AF coverage.

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>>3061609
>mfw you are stupid if you think you made a bad choice

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>>3061607
>print screen
>go to current image open in GIMP
>ctrl + V
>Anchor to New Layer
>Crop
>export as
I was editing an A7 film scan.

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>>3061621

Snipping took, my man.

>>3061581
When will you understand that there is no extra reach, it is just cropping your image. If the crop camera has the same pixel density as a full frame that is.

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>>3061615
>Buying a d5 to use with the trinity

>>3061609
Wtf should wait for the d760 or d820 or some shit to come out then either get the now cheap as fuck d750 or the newer model.

>>3061648
>Doesn't know what's gimp or what it runs on

You are actually a fucking cuck.

is it safe to say now that... DSLRs are dead?

>>3061490
Sony don't make m43 sensors, nor do they sell their cool technology. If you want the cool shit the a9 does you're stuck with Sony until Canon or another sensor fab catches up, canon is about a decade behind.

>>3061535
>why have the best camera on the market when I can buy this gimped piece of shit and 2 lenses
>why buy a steinway piano when a casio keyboard is nearly the same
>why buy sable hair brushes when these synthetic ones are cheaper

Pro tip, only poor hobbyists factor in lens costs to anything. They hold their retail value so well they are practically free as long as you can afford a few grand tied up in them. If you can't spare a few grand, the fuck did you choose photography for? A pencil is only 50c.

>>3061548
Low light performance and much less sharp Images due to the smaller sensor being more demanding. And worse dr and colour depth. And worse af petformance, and a hilariously small viewfinder, and no accurate focus on lenses faster than 2.8 without using liveview.

It's almost as if the d500 is worse in every single objective metric...

>>3061581
>added reach
You get no added reach from crop, it's just the centre of a full frame shot. Cropping a ff shot gives exactly the same image once resampled.

>>3061767
Yes

>>3061552
Due to physics, phase detection doesn't work close to the edge of the image circle.

That's why DSLR's only have AF points around the center, and why their center AF points work best.
Only way to get decent PDAF in the corners is by using full frame lenses on a crop body.

The A9's off-center AF points mostly rely on contrast detection.
They are "phase detection" in name only.

>>3061767
The a9 still shoots at just 5fps with the mechanical shutter active, so on the off-chance that for some crazy reason, you need to shoot faster than that while under flash, a DSLR can still do that for you.
Of course you'd also need an $8000 flash pack, but it's still a thing...

>>3061777
>The A9's off-center AF points mostly rely on contrast detection.
I don't think you're right about this. If you have a lens with sharp extreme far corners, even the PDAF can work well there.
One of the test samples we saw on the A9 showed it performed well even at the edge.

This 93% coverage will open up to a new way of shooting fast moving subjects, you can even play around with Rule of 3rds, and other composition tricks instead of being forced to center the fast moving subject, and then crop in post.

>>3061768
>It's almost as if the d500 is worse in every single objective metric...

and it's also what, 1/3 of the price?

>>3061581
Spoken as someone who never shoots sports.

In all but perfect lightning you're going to struggle with a crop sensor on a slow lens.
Note that to freeze motion you want to be around 1/1000s for most sports, so at f/5.6 and perfect sunlight you need to shoot at ISO 125.
Just some light clouds and you're at ISO 500.

Only big lenses can give you the combination of reach, fast shutter speeds, and low ISO's.
It doesn't really matter what your sensor size it - smaller sensor just means you pick a shorter but faster lens (say, 200 f/2 instead of 300 f/2.8)

The real advantage of full frame sensors for sports is the ability to crop in post without much quality loss.
And that's a huge benefit given the unpredictable nature, especially when you're using a prime lens.

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>>3061778
Check this post out Anon>>3061584

This new electronic shutter displays completely different characteristics than what we are understand from older generation.
There is minimal distortion.
And 0 issues with banding problems.
And it will have the benefits of absolute silence and 0 vibration. (we have to add artificial noise for cases where it might come in handy)

The only open question I have is with HSS compatibility of things like Flashpoint Xplor 600. I dearly hope that shit still works, or I will just stick to the A7Rii.

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>>3061784
>have to add artificial noise for cases where it might come in handy

Handy for what?

It's just there to stop perverts from taking creep shots.
Some Japanese law that all cameras must make sound to alert girls their picture is being taken by some mouth breather who will jerk off to them later.

>>3061782
So why are you comparing the 2?

Also
>caring about a little bit of money

Lol, you're poor.

>>3061788
Back and forth communication with your portrait model.
Your camera says click, the model knows when to alter the pose.
You camera clicks again, the model knows it's time to move to next pose after that.
Etc.

>>3061756

B-bu-but my 1.5x focal length!

>>3061790

You don't need 20 fps in that situation and will most likely be using mechanical shutter (and a whole different camera for that matter).

>>3061792
>B-bu-but my 1.5x focal length!
Get your a7r, crop the middle 1.5, hey presto it's a ~24mp crop camera.

APS-C is meme af.

Initial reports of low light capability are extremely positive.
Everybody sort of agrees the A7Rii is a bit below the A7Sii. But they hesitate to claim the A7Sii is above the A9 in low light.

With the combination of backside illumination and 24MP, people seem to be almost confident it it, before they are able to compare head to head with A7Sii footage.

>>3061796

They probaboy feel the a9 is as good if not better than the a7sii, but don't wanna look like an idiot when comparisons show up.

>>3061790
>shooting prostitutes without a flash.

OK, maybe in SOME cases it's handy.
But it better be possible to disable that shit.

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>>3061768
>Sony don't make m43 sensors
IMX269, and IMX159 are 4/3rd. The only problem is they haven't been updated for Exmor R, let alone Exmor RS.

But the thing is it actually just depend on how much money the camera makers funnel into Sony Semiconductors.

For example Phase One was satisfied with their niche they managed to make with that 100 MP MF sensor. So last year they ordered the design of a new 150 MP sensor with Backside illumination.
So this isn't exclusive technology, it's just about whether the camera makers want to put some money into the research and design, or whether they are mere window shoppers who just orders what is on the shelf.

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>>3061803
>But it better be possible to disable that shit.
It's all configurable.

>in before customized machine gun sound effects

From PhotoRec TV

>real world results that I and other photographers experienced was 4000 to 6000 shots per battery. The cipa statement must be mechanical only. Many of us shared our results on Twitter.
4000 - 6000 shots per battery if you use electronic shutter.

So the advantage seems to be mainly:
Battery life
Silent shooting
Vibration-less shooting

This shit keeps getting better and better.

>>3061768
>cropping a 24mp full frame shot is getter than using a 24mp crop camera
But that's wrong.

>>3061809
Not allowed in the EU.
You have to have an audible noise when shooting a photo. Any camera that can be muted completely is illegal.

>>3061818

Cause that wont be fixed with a quick firmware hack.

The video time limit is easily removed on a7 cameras already.

>>3061818
>Not allowed
There are ways to circumvent that. They can just let users upload custom sound effects, and by effect allow the use of silent audio effect files.

The regulations don't have a chance to enforce user customisation. And I even doubt it's true what your say, otherwise we would have heard complaints of other users by now if their cameras lackd silent shooting.

>>3061818
This may exist in Nippon but it sure as fuck don't in Europe

>>3061818
I think you're confusing EU and asia. In EU we have phones that take pictures completely silent (like, all of them, Samsungs at least) whereas in Asia it's illegal.

>>3061793
16 MP. it's 36MP* 1.5^2

All this technological talk and yet still the best and most iconic pictures where taken before digital.

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facebook com/TheCameraStore/videos/10154705281406359/
>22:15
>Tony shot 10.000 images on one battery
Wait...what?

What the fuck is going on with these battery performances?
They are all over the place.
Someone got 4000 images from 1 battery.
Someone got 6000 images from 1 battery.
Someone got 10 000 images...

>>3062038
>10.000 images on one battery
Most likely by writing Double Jpeg to both SD cards.

>Someone got 4000 images from 1 battery.
Maybe they wrote Double RAW to the cards.
>Someone got 6000 images from 1 battery.
Maybe RAW + Jpeg.

>>3061765
GIMP runs on windows you fucking retard

>>3061811

Is there any advantage to using a mechanical shutter?

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>>3062169
People say they are necessary for Strobes and other such light equipment.
But let's wait and see before we can conclude fully.

If nothing else, then at the very least Sony has managed to perfect the E-First-Curtain Shutter method.
Since the banding issues have been completely eliminated, you may now use electronic First-curtain shutter to the absolutely fastest shutter speed your mechanical shutter can handle.

>>3061783
Yeah...no. I know my way around sports photography, buddy. But thanks for the lesson.

>>3061789
Why the fuck not compare the two? They're both digital cameras. I shoot sports day in and day out, and while I would love a camera that can shoot 20 fps, I'm more than happy with 10. But then again, I'm not working for the AP or Reuters shooting professional sports, so I can make due with a slower framerate. It depends on your needs. I'm sorry if that's too much for you to comprehend.

>>3061768
>Pro tip, only poor hobbyists factor in lens costs to anything. They hold their retail value so well they are practically free as long as you can afford a few grand tied up in them. If you can't spare a few grand, the fuck did you choose photography for? A pencil is only 50c.

I understand what you're saying, but you're exaggerating way too much. You're obviously not a pro.

>>3061812
Please explain why you think that is wrong, I'm up for a laugh.

>>3062244
Nah, I'm not a pro, still have enough cash for the lenses I want though.

>>3061486
>A9 is technology of the gods
>flash sync speed (still only) up to 1/250th
God's probably don't use flashes.

>>3062353
HSS exist too you know.

>>3062353
>discussing sync speed when sony pretty much only has hss flashes.

Sorry you're a fuji user and these concepts are unheard of.

>>3062387
>has no leaf shutter option
I have a leaf shutter lens on my Pentax 6x7 right now. How does it feel to be blown out of the water in strobe works by a camera and lens produced in the 80s?

>>3062378
For wide aperture shots this is only an option when its cloudy. At a 1/1000th shutter the flash drops to a 1/4th. I'd like to work without a reflector as it is painful to adjust when alone. Nd filters suck balls too

>>3062388
A reason why pros switch to digital mf quickly

>>3062378
>>3062387
I was just dreaming as I read about this fast shutter

>>3061768
>Sony don't make m43 sensors

Sony has been making m43 sensors since E-M5.

https://chipworks1.force.com/DefaultStore/ccrz__ProductDetails?viewState=DetailView&cartID=&sku=DEF-1703-802&&store=DefaultStore

>>3061818
I have a GX80 that I bought in Germoney and it allows fully silent shooting with electronic shutter.

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These port covers look really flimsy and people report that there is no gasket in the battery compartment.

How does Sony intend to compete with pro sports cameras with the same subpar weather sealing as the A7 series?

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>>3062290
>please explain why you think I'm wrong
No, you go ahead. I want you to tell me why you think a 24mp FF image cropped down to like 10 no for a 1.5x crop factor is going to look better than a full 24mp image on a crop camera with the same lens.

>I'm not a pro
We could tell.

>>3062402
>No, you go ahead. I want you to tell me why you think a 24mp FF image cropped down to like 10 no for a 1.5x crop factor is going to look better than a full 24mp image on a crop camera with the same lens.

Because the largest anyone ever exports is at 2k, 10mp and 24mp reduced to 2mp look for all intents and purposes identical.

>>3062407
If they're identical then why spend $4500 on a body instead of 2k on a body and the rest on an extra lens? Now I know you're trolling because obviously "looks identical" is not "better" and even implied it could look worse at a higher res crop.

>>3062414
Jesus christ you're dumb.

They give identical resampled images at crop, but if you want full frame, you need the full frame camera... not to mention the fact EVERY objective measurement is better from the Sony.

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>>3062407
>Under the assumption that I am right, I am right
Let's find some other special cases

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Q-nzcf8Pkw

Will all future pro DSLRs use the new Sony stacked CMOS sensor?

>No mirror noise or vibration
>No shutter noise or vibration
>No viewfinder blackout
>20FPS shooting

THE FUTURE IS SO BRIGHT, I GOTTA WEAR SHADES

>>3062417
>every objective measure is better
It shoots faster and has more af points.

It also has less sealing, the grip is too small to hold larger telephoto lenses and on that note, there are barely any telephoto lenses for this system at all. We don't even know how good the AD really is but since there's not a single cross type point it's not promising. Not to mention point selection on this camera sounds like a fucking chore.

I'm not gonna argue about dynamic range or other bullshit because cameras these days are all pretty close to each other for DR at higher ISOs. Even Canon. For this price you could get a used flagship DSLR and probably feel better about it.

>>3062421
Maybe for their 6500 dollar cameras. I don't think they will for anything else.

This 3D chip business isn't cheap, so they would probably perfer the cheaper traditional 1 layer image sensors for their mass production models.

>>3062424
What is Moore's law? I don't have to think much about spending 1500 dollars for such a camera in used condition, I don't mind waiting a few years.

>>3062426
>Moore's law
Are you saying Full Frame sensors become half sized every two years?

Where is your evidence of that?

>>3061768
>Cropping a ff shot gives exactly the same image once resampled.

yes, resample 9MPs to 20MP and tell me how it went. stupid sonyggers.

I photographed my wife's boyfriend in low light at 400mm, and it locked AF right on. Even with his darker skin.

A9 confirmed awesome

Still waiting on Tony to tell me why should I keep my digital camera over a phone.

Still waiting for Tony to admit film is relevant

I don't like Tony too much.

>>3062778
Hmm, Tony himself is very fond of phones.

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>>3061768
>Sony don't make m43 sensors
Sony makes the m43 sensors for Olympus's flagship m43. GH5 likely uses a similar variant (because Panny always nukes PDAF for some dumb reason) as well, but is still currently unconfirmed.

>>3062779
>Hmm, Tony himself is a faggot.

I agree Anon.

>>3062776
i got that after reading it a second time lmfao

>>3062388
Leaf shutters have their own set of issues, how's that top shutter speed?
And the a9 sync speed is only one stop behind, but hss and a faster shutter means I get flash sync 6 stops higher than you in the real world.

>>3062421
No, sony have said they're keeping their best sensors for themselves.

>>3062423
>point selection is chore
A9 has joystick and touchscreen, a feat no other body manages.

>grip is too small to hold
Anti-beetus feature working as intended

>barely any telephoto
For all that nature and sports you do that the 100-400 doesn't cover, right?

>not a single cross type
No, it doesn't use outdated focus technology, it also doesn't have a flash sync port or film advance lever.

>>3062434
For all those 20mp screens you view it on? And if you must have that extra resolution, the a7rii won't only have the exact same resolution, it will also have bsi.

>>3062997
>A9 has joystick and touchscreen, a feat no other body manages.
D500
>Anti-beetus feature working as intended
t. Manlet
>For all that nature and sports you do that the 100-400 doesn't cover, right?
They've got zooms worked out, but now they need to get their asses moving on primes.
>No, it doesn't use outdated focus technology
Just because OSPDAF is newer doesn't mean it's superior in performance especially compared to a big cross-type.

>>3063023
>d500
Not even full frame, lol

>manlet
6'1, not the tallest, but manlet is new to me

>tele primes
Hands up who here has a 5 figure lens
Inb4 confirmation bias.

>ospdaf
Well, let's look at the facts
It's on sensor, instead of relying on a precision calibrated secondary sensor,
Phase detect is as accurate as af gets.
Because sony use the imaging sensor, they can use intelligent af, something no dslr can do.

So sony have the system with the most potential for accuracy and ai, and their lenses in the majority use floating elements that move faster than traditional focusing methods.

No camera comes close to the frame coverage either.

Time will tell if it's faster in the real world, but having used an a6500 and a 1dx ii quite extensively, I can make an educated guess ;)

>>3063028
>Not even full frame, lol
>A9 has joystick and touchscreen, a feat no other body manages.
>full frame mentioned no where

>6'1, not the tallest, but manlet is new to me
t. Bitch hands

>Hands up who here has a 5 figure lens
Photojournos and people shooting for agencies that purchase this equipment. You know, the majority of people who actually buy these lenses and cameras.

>It's on sensor, instead of relying on a precision calibrated secondary sensor,
It has shitty little sensors that have poor ability to discriminate detail
>Phase detect is as accurate as af gets.
No, CDAF is as accurate as it gets. And that's slow (relatively) and unsure (because it doesn't know where to focus, only when to stop focusing)
>Because sony use the imaging sensor, they can use intelligent af, something no dslr can do.
Nikons do the same thing with the metering sensor.

Let's look at the facts:
Sony's predictive tracking algorithms are garbage in AF-C. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOlrns6XAsc
Sony's AF requires the camera to do a CDAF confirm step before it fires, increasing lag.
The short detection lines with OSPDAF make it a poor choice for long lenses with thin depths of field.
Sony has not as of yet made a mirrorless camera with weather sealing worth a damn.

>>3062997
>hss and a faster shutter means I get flash sync 6 stops higher than you
>in theory
In the real world your flash power is limited by 1/2^n where n are the stops below your sync speed.

>>3063039
>implying crop is ever uttered in the same comparisons as full frame

>bitch hands
Actually my hands are most likely much larger than yours, I've not met anyone with a larger bone structure.

>the majority of people that buy tele primes, are those that buy tele primes.
Your insight is fascinating.
But.
>pj's buy $10k tele primes
Lol, no. Thanks for showing your naivety/ignorance.

>sony sensors are shitty, little and can't discriminate detail.
Lol, what, I see you don't actually own a camera at all. Or your fucking dumb.

>cdaf is more accurate than pdaf
Oh fucking hell, you're in a whole world of confusion, if you understood phase detection you'd not say such dumb things.
>nikon meter intelligently, which makes up for their dumb af
Lol, no, until that mirror flips up your nikon doesn't have a fucking clue what it's looking at, and I highly doubt they put ai in just for liveview.

>>3063040
No, in the real world flash power is determined by how powerful the flash is.
And if we're above 1/250, chances are we're in good light and we're just using a little fill flash.

>>3063039
>say garbage
>post jewtube
>it works decent

wew.

>>3063039
>hurrr sony can't into autofocus
>shows youtube video of a sony perfectly tracking the eye of a toddler wobbling about like michael j Fox on a bouncy castle.

Welp, that's infinitely better than my 5ds can do. (I also have a6500 though, so this video came as no surprise ;) )

>>3063041
Figure out what hss means for short exposure times! Spend only 5 minutes in daylight operating a flash gun at a distance of 3-8 meters manually. The scope is so tight that you do not even have to use lightformers. I guarantee you'll ask yourself whats happening!

>>3062776
Haha

>>3063132
I regularly use flashes in daylight with HSS, nails it every time desu. Godox v860ii is the best flash i've ever owned by a long shot, makes my old metz look shit.

this is all fine and dandy but when are they going to start focusing on increasing dynamic range

>>3061818
omd em-10 II is completely slient (Germany)

>>3063232
The 100MP medium format sensor is 15 stops of DR. (The 50MP is a bit crappy on that spec though)

>>3063232
Never. Go ask Canon for that.

>>3063259
>100 MP MFD has 15 stops of DR
>36 MP and 42 MP Sony sensors have 14.5 stops of DR

???

>>3063385
15 stops is very good.

>>3063386
no RED has 21 stops DR on S35

>>3063417
According to dxo that is also "only" 15 stops.

Not bad at all, maybe Sony should make a larger camera with more advanced active cooling directly on the sensor for this purpose.

Guy seriously now how do we stop the fascist Sonyggers?
Can we just sue them out of business?

File: 1346959372415.png (231KB, 436x512px) Image search: [Google]

231KB, 436x512px

>>3063442
Trying too hard Anon.

But only Canon would benefit from that. Removing Sony will just hurt the other makers.

>>3063386
I know, I just think it's weird that it's only half a stop better than 35mm full frame aka "small format".

I already knew that sensor tech has "shifted" the old hierarchy from the film days, i.e. a high res full frame can compete with medium format film, but even so I'd still think MFD would yield better at least a couple stops more of DR.

>>3063481
There are 1 inch sensors with better DR than Canon full frames.
1 inch aka, super micro small format?

DR is unrelated to the surface area of sensor.