For those of you who pursue photography as an art form: does

>>2994300
>>>/ic/2801965
Why are you so mad lmao, did a photographer fuck your girl??

>>2994308
Hey, they told me to come here and I did. I didn't even know this place was a thing; I guess it's good that photographers have their own containment board.

>>2994300
No, why would it?
Photography is the least explored medium in art, while painting is the most overdone

>>2994313
>Eating shit is something not done often, so that means it's good!

>>2994311
>I didn't even know this place was a thing; I guess it's good that photographers have their own containment board.
Again, see >>2994308

>>2994317
Just curious why you'd waste your life doing this of all things, instead of actually learning how light works to actually have the artistic freedom to create something or depict it correctly. I guess not everyone has the patience to gitgud, oh well. And my waifu is loyal, just so you know.

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>>2994315
Ah, my mistake, I thought you were looking for an actual conversation, not shitposting

>>2994321
But you were the one shittalking my waifu, and I was the one talking about the actual freedom that drawing gives you. Photographer fags be delusional yo.

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>>2994327
>But you were the one shittalking my waifu
/p/ is one person, yes

>actually learning how light works to actually have the artistic freedom to create something or depict it correctly

Photography and painting equally need those things to have an artistic merit, otherwise it's doodling vs. phone snapshots

Also, photography is a great instrument for conceptual art and I do think that fine art photography is an abortion

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>plebs out there hate every art fags
>art fags argue between each other which art is better
I do both. I also write. I wish I could write poetry or sing, but I can't. I also wish to play an instrument, but I don't have enough time or motivation for it.
Expand your horizons, you faggots.

>>2994329
Well, yes, photography is a useful tool, I'm not arguing that; it's fast, and it gets the job done. What I mean is that I can't understand how someone with an affinity for visual arts could feel accomplished by just tanking pictures of things.

And no, you cannot compare the understanding of light in a drawing to the understanding of light in a photography context; saying they are the same thing or that they require the same amount of effort to get down is being delusional.

>>2994332
I do write as well. Painting/drawing and writting are the keys to heaven.

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For those of you who pursue painting as an art form: does it eat you up inside knowing that you don't have the will power to actually learn how to write poetry?

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>>2994337
Who the fuck would want to write poetry? For what purpose? How is a linguistic art form related to the discussion? Come on man, we're discussing light and form, quit being a fag.

>>2994300
Do you think art is only drawing and meaningless aesthetics? This ain't the 19 century anymore boy.
t. arts grad student

>>2994340
You can use filters with your drawings as well, duh!

>>2994339
>How is a linguistic art form related to the discussion?

It's related by the delicious irony of the fact that the man you have to thank for the "light and form" on which this hierarchical discussion is premised (Kant) himself ranked poetry as the most rarified and perfect art form (notwithstanding his appraisal of sight as the most "noble" of the senses, Kant thought orality was the most free).

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>>2994333
I don't believe in an idea of "lesser" or "higher" mediums, I can do both and more, but each one has it's own boundaries and strengths that any artist should be aware of and learn to use them accordingly.

It's stupid to use photography as a pure visual form, there is, indeed, painting for those things.

But I think that greatest value of photography for an artist is that in most cases it is percieved as a document, delieverd message, something that is real and exists or happened and good artist can build anything on that perception.

>>2994300

Nope, I can draw, paint, sculpt and photograph very competently and with proper respect to those mediums and materials.

Just as any aspiring artist should do.

>>2994344
>of the fact that the man you have to thank for the "light and form" on which this hierarchical discussion is premised (Kant) himself ranked poetry as the most rarified and perfect art form (notwithstanding his appraisal of sight as the most "noble" of the senses, Kant thought orality was the most free).
And how is that relevant, you fallacious little bitch?

>>2994351
because the OP begs the question by conflating two distinct aesthetic claims (a hierarchical conception of artforms, on the one hand; and a strictly *visual* conception of aesthetic purity or desirability as its determining condition, on the other)

>>2994348
Painting, sculpting and drawing all complement each other, photography is just a quick way of roughly capturing something you saw. It's useful as a pencil is useful, but it shouldn't be an endgoal for someone who takes this seriously.

>>2994352
It's not about aesthetics, it's about light and form. I never argued one was prettier than the other, I argued one could do what the other did and more, with an added time constraint, of course, rendering the other not quite obsolete.

>>2994353
photography doesn't capture what you see, it captures what the camera sees

>it's a "college freshmen try to talk about art" episode.

wew lads

>>2994355
you're right, you didn't advance any sort of argument to that effect. you made a whole host of implications and assumptions, though, regardless of whether you were aware of them. These are just the consequences of blasé and tendentious ignorant statements such as yours. Kinda too late to go back and try to define what your premises "really were."

>>2994362
I said a thing and so far nobody as made any points against it. Stop being dumb.

>>2994320
good photographers understand light
not that you'd know it from browsing this shithole

>>2994333
>understanding of light in a photography context; saying they are the same thing or that they require the same amount of effort to get down is being delusional.
saying that all painters "understand" light is delusional. plenty of painters just copy what they see

>>2994372
I didn't say that, but people who render anything imaginary do have a greater understanding of light than someone who only photographs shit.

>>2994300
Who the fuck would want to create art? For what purpose? The value of what you do is trivially derived: the ratio of the amount of money you make to the amount of effort you put in. Who the fuck do you think you are, Gerhard Richter? You think you're going to bring painting back from the dustbin of history?

>>2994374
so willem de kooning had a greater understanding of light than ed weston? cool story bro

>>2994377
Alright, keep moving the goalposts, that'll make you right.

>>2994378
>people who render anything imaginary do have a greater understanding of light than someone who only photographs shit.
keep projecting though

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No, I can and do draw. Back before I really got going into photography I actually sold a few paintings. A lot of my studio work starts as sketches now. I enjoy print making and painting quite bit.

to all the people saying they draw/paint as well as fake photos, post some of your drawings or paintings. Not the op btw, just curious what the general skill level on here is. Didn't know so many of you did other stuff.

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>>2994404
Uh sure I guess. Don't expect anything amazing and most of my stuff is in storage at my studio.

Layered glass and paint, an experiment with problems but I like it. If I were going to do them with any seriousness I would need a better way to bind the glass.

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I'll see if I can photographbetter stuff when at the studio later.

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I can only assume that you do not know how to draw anything other than shitty cartoons and that you are incredibly juvenile and possibly underage or a manchild with such a simplistic viewpoint of art.

>>2994353

I'd agree it's almost too easy to use photography. But my peers all suck ass at it. So I use it to my advantage as research like you said but also occasionally in more experimental abstract manners as more refined pieces. Alvin Booth is a good example of somebody who uses photography in a true fine art sense.

>>2994376

>why create things people enjoy in life

Might as well work in a mine then.

>>2994416
You "can only assume" that, because you know I'm right yet you'll still try to hide yourself behind some shitty fallacy because you can't handle the truth.

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>>2994404

Here's some random shite I've previously done. Stuff on right is recent.

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>>2994425
"the truth" is that photography as an art form is in its baby steps and still has amazing things compared to thousands of years of painting, and that for things such as capturing events and journalism, it is obviously much better than painting. You might talk about the freedom that painting gives you, but that's not a plus, you're just saying that you don't have any obstacles which makes you look like a little pussy bitch. Sure, to create completely fantastical imagery it is better, especially since you can do it in isolation and don't need anyone else for it.
Of course, just the fact that you want to have an "who's into the better art form" contest shows me how much of a manchild you are.

>>2994300
Ummm! I got into photography because I drew, and painted. I would use my camera so I could have an image of what I wanted to draw later. So it is not a matter of using as an art form, but using it as a form of art.

Realistically not everyone has the innate ability necessary? If we're being honest here, I really doubt that any more than 1% of people are capable on a cognitive level and dexterity level of producing photorealistic drawings or paintings.

Photography is a tool for the rest of us who might have visual-processing related skills, though not ultimately the right combination to allow us to draw or paint photorealistically.

I have a friend who is very masculine (no spatial skill deficit), with an above average IQ (135), and all he can produce is scribbles. He has tried before to draw and paint. Meanwhile, I know effeminate (and also female) borderline retards who are incredibly gifted with reproducing life on paper. Should the former be artistically silenced and the latter subhumans become our culture's artistic voice because your head is buried in your rectum?

Would you call someone a faggot for driving instead of walking, because, "driving isn't proper travel"? What you're protesting is the use of tools.

Personally I like photography because I can use it as a scope for reality and regular drawing/painting I like for the more abstract thoughts and feelings

It sounds to me like you align more with modern art over postmodern art

ITT: Painters mad that their medium can only represent space (and not also time like photography)

Haha painting is so staged. Photography is spontaneous. It really captures fleeting moments. As they are. No mistakes. But this is a click bait argument anyway. Respect to those guys.

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>>2994428
Agreed. So many factors that you can manipulate.

I'm only do photography to pass time and improve my cinematography. I much prefer film as an artform I find most photographers insufferable. Honestly I'm not sure why I'm here.

>>2994635
>Honestly I'm not sure why I'm here.

because youre a faggot.

>>2994420
people enjoy minerals tho

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>>2994564
>pic

>>2994564
>It sounds to me like you align more with modern art over postmodern art
Nah. And as discussed before, drawing and painting are best to depict reality.

>>2994497
It's a tool, negro boy.

>>2994524
>Realistically not everyone has the innate ability necessary?
Yeah, you're right, not everyone has the innate ability to deal with the time it takes to GitGud.

>>2994848
>drawing and painting are best to depict reality
In what way is a painting better for an unbiased representation of reality than photography? Name literally just a single thing.

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>>2994404
I sketch a bit to generate and work out architecture ideas.

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>>2994956
Sketching by hand is infinity better for generating ideas. Eventually I hop into 3d modeling though.

>>2994953
Reality is inherently biased.

>>2994977
>taking a picture of an event showing it as it happened vs some artist's rendition based on what he saw or even possibly what others saw
Which one is going to be more accurate?

>>2994848
>>Yeah, you're right, not everyone has the innate ability to deal with the time it takes to GitGud.

No, I fundamentally reject this. Having seen people who can draw photorealistically work, and having known some who are quite good, I can say that nearly all of the population is either neurologically or physiologically incapable.

As I've seen demonstrated before me, the people who inhabit the arbitrary combination of necessary traits are often completely fucking retarded anyways, and not always worth conserving. If the natural ability doesn't save one from retardation, I see hardly any point in valuing that skill.

>>2995025
And photography can't be biased? did you see those pics of trump and Obama staring at each other with anger and then the video showed that it was just a small neutral pause and they were laughing and getting son fine the whole time. Or the picture where a small group of protesters is being attacked but if you zoom out you can see a whole mob of protesters fucking shit up? It's super easy to present people with biased photos.

>>2995476
Completely false. Go to an atelier for 1 year and you'll see that a very very tiny amount of the population can not learn art, like less than 1 percent. Anyone can learn art, it's just that most people do not have the knowledge that needs to be applied or they aren't willing to put in the hours of daily work that is needed to git gud. Actually, if we're talking "photorealistic" stuff, even a brain dead retard could do that within a couple months. Look up the grid method. 99% of people who you see posting photorealistic drawings just find a photo they like, then put it on a grid and copy it on over to paper, something anyone can do. Or some don't even do that and just trace, that's why the line drawing is always already complete in those timelapse videos. After that all they have to do is learn how to render/fill in the details. They cheat at ye hard part of getting down the correct proportions and angles and just jump into coloring in the drawing. Anyone can do that. On /ic/ they're called photocopiers because all they can do is reproduce whatever is on a photo, they can't crrate anything from imagination or even from life. If 99% of normies who draw once every couple weeks can achieve that, I'm 100% sure anyone with even a little dedication can learn to do art better than them.

>for those of you practicing one medium as an artform, how does it feel knowing that you aren't practicing another medium as an artform.

I've logged over a thousand hours of drawing, but I just wanted to point out the core of this ridiculous argument.

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I'M TRYING

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I think the problem is that photography takes next to no effort, you just take a picture and print it out. Meanwhile, painting can take a few hours and a decent amount of skill. But art isn't about how hard it was to make, its about how it makes you feel.

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>>2994300
>tfw i was a special kid in our kindergarten who could draw anything and all the kids were jelous
>tfw in school I was always praised by teachers for my drawing skills
>tfw always failed at maths, chemistry and anything that involves numbers
>tfw any work or involvement in project or work that requires concentration and does not involve drawing literally hurts my head
>tfw studied fine arts in uni
>tfw I now realized I am autistic
h-hey but at least i can draw

>>2994347
That place looks depressing as fuck

>>2996287

thats modern """"""""""""""""art"""""""""""""""""""" """"""""galleries""""""""""""2 for you.

>>2994300
I normally don't give a fuck about this shitty argument but I'll just say this:

If what you draw are just things that could be captured on the camera you're not really doing anything a photographer doesn't do except draw a bunch of lines. This is like people who brag about shooting manual mode, when all you're doing is lining up the needle in the middle of the viewfinder so it exposes right. You're not actually "creating" anything, you're also just "capturing" something, only a lot slower.

Now, I don't think drawing or photography are bad even if you choose to just capture what you see. But arguing about how you re-create something you've seen in real life is like filmfags acting superior because they had to develop their shots first. It's fucking stupid. At least learn to draw original pieces that don't exist or can't be so easily created in real life, if you wanna talk any shit at all.

>>2994320
photography clearly has a different purpose to painting and drawing. part of its beauty is that it uses what already exists. in a way, it's the most life-affirming art.

>>2994426
great stuff

>>2995476
>implying great art is photorealistic

>>2996315
Are you actually implying auto mode is the same as manual mode?

>>2996684
only an autist would care about the mode. what matters is the picture.

>>2996705
Manual allows you to control everything about the picture, retardo.

>>2996743
no, your brain and body control much more than shutter speed and aperture you dipshit.

>>2996756
?

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making a picture of a flower in your garden or fahion photography for example is very different

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>>2996756

Still is no excuse for auto mode. You'll end up ruining great shots.

>>2996684
I'm saying manual mode is not benefiting you compared to semi auto modes like aperture or shutter priority. I am also saying that bragging about shooting manual when you're just doing what the meter told you to do is like bragging that you spent 20 hours drawing what a camera could capture in 1/100 a second. And while you were making a photo realistic drawing of the same frame over a span of 20 hours, in was able to shoot 100 more shots from all sorts of different angles and times of day.

>>2994333
>painters understand light better than photographers
Hahahahahahaahahahahaha
Light is how photographs are made if there's anything that photographers know it's how light works.

>>2997920
>Light is how photographs are made if there's anything that photographers know it's how light works.
trololololololololol

>Not drawing and doing photography
You double pleb

>>2994300
studied traditional art and illustration 4 years
got into games in marketing, 3 years
went into GUI 1 year
having a senior gui role for the last year

pick up art photohraphy as a hobby

no not really. and I paint and draw on top of my photos as much as I want because I dont give a shit about your process.

>>2995754
>photography takes next to no effort, you just take a picture and print it out
The same could be said for drawing. You just get a piece of paper and doodle for a while.
If you don't put in any effort your pictures are gonna be boring.

>>2994300
Why are people so fucking bitter? We're all just people trying to enjoy what little time we have on this earth. How can you shit on someone for actually finding happiness? fucking loser

>photography takes no effort
hah!

scout for locations
be allowed to access them
find people
compose with the idea in mind
look for angles
set up lights
direct the models
optional; direct the assistants
optional; direct the MU artists
optional; negotiate with clients
optional; make DIY props
repeat for several pics during the shoot, better be efficient
then spend hours processing everything
with consistency

sure, if you think photography is only pressing a shutter.
or, let's say, you do street photography instead?
walk the streets for hours, days
find an interesting point of view
go back again at a different time with different light
wait for people to spontaneously align right where you need
or get straight in their face and communicate

meanwhile you're drawing in the comfort of your room.

>>3002648

wow its literally like poetry. only it doesnt rhyme and its total shit, cool.

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>>3002648
>meanwhile you're drawing in the comfort of your room
I will stab you in the eye.

>>2994300
But I do, anon, I already am a classical painter.

Does it eat OP up inside when hes on a ship - knowing that he could have built one himself?

Nope, because its fucking easier and it does the same thing but better.

So, in short, no.

>tfw you can draw and take pretty pictures
Feels pretty neat OP.

>>3002699
you talk like a fucking tumblr primadonna