Long Exposure.

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>>2960812
Sony a7sii if you would like shorter shutter times, a7rii if you want better resolution, a7ii if you're a bit too poor for the above 2.

Why the Sony a7 series?
They're Full frame, gathers more light, gives greater apparent sharpness, has better noise performance, ultra wide angles are much better and more available.

It's mirrorless, the shorter flange distance allows faster, high quality wide angle lenses than dslrs that need to use a retrofocal design.

It's Sony, sony take coma into consideration when making lenses a LOT more than other brands, good coma performance is important for night photography.

They also do automatic dark frames for long exposures, have a tiltable screen that's great for focusing in low/no light and have ibis if you want to do anything handheld.

The pentax k1 is the only other body that comes close for your application.

Hi Max :)

I'm betting you can get a bit more out of that .cr2 if you really wanted to play around in LR a bit. Also, if you're not into buying a new cam right now you might look into exposure stacking.

>>2960816
I don't know anon, the shadows in the first image look really rough. They're purple and stringy, the only way to cure that is to make the shadows really blurry with denoising which looks really bad, however if that was done then OP could get a smooth result from lifted / crushed blacks. Could also try shadow tint slider in the calibration panel of LR / ACR.

Taking the first photo for the sky and then taking several to average out for the sake of reducing noise on everything that isn't the sky through a mask in post might help, but I think the stringy shapes seen in the shadows are static, that is they don't randomly change like usual noise.

At least I think see vertical stringy shapes, I know my own camera does that and turns purple on long exposures.

>>2960815
>5 shekels has been added to account

>>2960815
K-3 II also has astro tracer function and is good for long exposures.

>>2960818

kek

>>2960821
It's crop though, so noise will be twice as bad and your images will come out much softer unless you're using VERY expensive lenses.

>>2960818
Fine, use any full frame mirrorless. Oh, wait...

>>2960841
>Fine, use any full frame mirrorless. Oh, wait...
>implying only full frame mirrorless can deliver excellent low light performance
>implying OP even wants a fucking mirrorless
Fuck off, you shill cunt.

>>2960849
>learn2flangedistance nooblet
A short flange distance has massive benefits for fast, wide angle lenses (i.e, what most people want to use at night)

Also, go ahead and focus using a canikon full frame at night, they don't even have tilting screens senpai, I don't want to lie on the floor in pitch black to compose my shots.

>>2960853
> 5 shekels has been added to account

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>>2960853

>mfw I did that and didn't use tilting screen because I'm not a faggot

literally how hard is it to compose and set the focus ring to infinity.

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>>2960853
>Also, go ahead and focus using a canikon full frame at night, they don't even have tilting screens senpai
Memescreens aren't a necessity for focusing you fucking autist, they are nothing but a small convenience.

At this point I'm not sure whether you're a shill, an incredibly dense cunt, or both.

>>2960861
If Sugars fatass can do it, anyone can.

I just don't get why exposure stacking or averaging isn't an option. A viable drawback would be shooting time. A great plus is its price and further editing possibilities because of multiple layers.

>focusing with the screen at night
keep that sensor cold, use the eyepiece

>>2960862

I would have said "it's not fucking rocket science" but well you know.....

>>2960861
Sugar, serious question:

Why don't you stick to standard aspect ratios? It's really frustrating to look at your stuff and have all these weird crops.

>>2960887
Why do you need standard aspect ratios online?
If a non standard ratio fits the composition better, why not use it?

>>2960887

I believe that was a 4x5 crop but I could be wrong.

That particular shot was done a lot wider and I expected the rocket to go way higher but it was a heavy-life Delta 4 and those don't go very high they get out to sea so I cropped for the rocket. The FL was 25mm on FF in truth I probably could have got away with 35mm

>>2960861
>set focus ring to infinity
That's fine if you have a decent hard stop, but they're far from common, most lenses are designed to go slightly past infinity to allow for tolerances.

>>2960862
>Memescreens aren't a necessity for focusing you fucking autist, they are nothing but a small convenience.
Ok, go out on a wet night, take a shot from ground level and roll around in the mud.

I mean if rolling round in mud isn't your ideal way of spending an evening you could always guess at the focus and composition.
Or, here's the bit that will blow your mind, tilt your screen slightly up and compose in comfort.

>If Sugars fatass can do it, anyone can.
Not taken at ground level, and yes, I don't deny anyone can roll around on the floor...

Dude asked for low light recommendations, I've given reasons to go full frame, mirrorless and with a tilting screen. You've all sperged out because you have a fanboipussy vendetta against a technology company, even if it's the best product for the job.

inb4 shekel anon memes on you again

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>>2960815
I want less sensor noise and you suggest to me a crop sensor, mirrorless, sony.
Are you fucking high?
>>2960816
If you look at the exif on the first image you'll see it came from ACR, its pretty heavily messed with.
>>2960817
The purple shadows just come from my shitty idea of a post process in ACR, I don't use ACR much.
>>2960841
Why mirrorless?
>>2960853
Buy laser pointer, put in live view, magic zoom on green dot, make green dot as small as possible, WOW manual focusing in the pitch black!
>>2960877
this kind of insight is why I made the thread, thank you.
>>2960878
yesss, more useful tips.
>>2960914
But why mirrorless tho?

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>>2960914
That's why I'm shooting with wifi goggles, thanks android

>>2960942
>crop sensor
the post you quoted says full frame

>>2960942
>>>2960815
>I want less sensor noise and you suggest to me a crop sensor, mirrorless, sony.
>Are you fucking high?
He's not high. You went full plebian by not reading or not understanding his post. A7 series is fool-frame.

All in all you seem like you already know THAT YOU SHOULD USE THE GEAR THREAD even if you already made up your mind and just like to hear that you did well.

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>>2960942
If you aren't auto focusing why do you need a mirror? Mirrorless makes more sense for manual focusing due to EVF, peaking, zoom, etc.

Also since you think the A7 series are crop you might want to do more research, especially into the fact that Sony sensors have less noise than Canon sensors

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>>2960947
>>2960951
Well beg my friggin pard. And to be honest, no, I don't know things and I am not here to stroke my ego.
I am pretty biased against sony though. From what I understand they have had a bad habit of over-driving their ccd's and pushing the thermal limits further than most.

I'm looking for the diesel engine of a DSLR. A big cold ccd that don't have to work very hard. Signal-to-noise.
Resolution is nice but not really something that excites me.

>>2960951
Source pls. Some anon said this comparison shows raws that were highly pushed in post.

>>2960877
This. Lightroom's contrast noise reduction and color noise reduction to zero and exposure averaging. Most likely one still needs different exposures for background and foreground or layer masks on different edits.

>>2960956
I've never experimented with this so I'm pretty excited to try it.

>>2960956
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-5ds-sr/11
I think it's this.

>Some anon said this comparison shows raws that were highly pushed in post.
So? It's still comparing their dynamic range and signal to noise.

>>2960955
Y not just get Pentax K1 then, if you're supper opposed to Sony for some reason?

Full frame, beefy weather sealing, ISO/noise performance a step up from D810, and you get the nifty astrotracer function that allows for slightly longer exposures without star trails entering the equation, if that is your thing.

>>2960966
Definitely gonna look into it, If I shouldn't be biased against Sony for those reasons tell me why.

>>2960965
Thanks. I thought the 5Ds(r) is utter shit despite its resolution, that's why I'm curious. And I just don't know stuff for dynamic range or signal to noise. For night shots I ETTR to pull exposure in post and with that soften noise. For that I'd gladly see comparisons.

>>2960971
Sony user here. You should be biased against Sony for thermal reasons. I only have an A6300 so I can't speak to full frames, but my camera has definately overheated during video, but thats 4k video. I have heard of them overheating just being on and not recording, but I honestly think those were defective units, because mine has never ever done that.

If you want a stills camera that you don't need to worry about those things whatsoever, look elsewhere, but maybe you could borrow or rent an A7 and see if it works for what you are doing.

>>2960966
Pentax K1 still uses Sony's 36MP sensor so unless he's worried about the size/mirrorless/menus it's either Sony or Canon.

>>2960955
>>2960956
Sorry, didn't mean to imply that you were. Since you're upgrading from an entry level camera of course it's okay to not know the ins and outs of higher end gear.

What that image comparison shows is pushed shadows/underexposed areas and demonstrates the Sony sensor's ISO invariance. Ontop of the Canon sensor having less dynamic range, you will not be able to push shadows after the fact if you did not shoot at the proper ISO to begin with, i.e. you can shoot the Sony/Nikon/Pentax at ISO100 with settings meant for ISO6400 and still get the same image as if you had used ISO6400 by using a +6 push. If you're focused on working at night this means you can capture an ISO invariant scene with the necessary speed and aperture for minimizing star movement and DOF without introducing unnecessary noise/limiting your ability to push certain areas of the image in post

>>2960951

>10 shekels paid into your account

>>2960988
That's pretty much exactly in line with my experience and what I've heard from others. Thermal issues, hot sensors, hot pixles. Goes along witih sony's mentality for most things,
>>2960989
Honestly, sounds like the best of both worlds, even though it may seem contrary, I trust sony to make a good sensor, its everything else that kinda urks me, if pentax can take sony's chip and use it well, awesome!
How do sony's offerings stack up to pentax and the nikon d810 previously mentioned?

Honestly, I expected to hear nikon nikon nikon not sony or pentax so I'm a little surprised which accounts for my skepticism.

>>2961032
The D810 has notably better AF speed than the Pentacks (especially in subject tracking), but that's really a non-issue in the usage scenarios you've laid out so far.

Nikon:
+AF speed
+Nikon glass selection

Pentacks:
+Price
+Astrotracer
+Pixel shift (do you care?)
+A tiny smidgen better squeeze out of the sensor performance (I wouldn't care if some other camera fits your needs better otherwise)
-Lenses? Double check the selection of the lenses you expect to need before committing.

Sony:
+video capabilities
+lens adaption if you're into that
-no real weather sealing
-battery life (seeing as you do long exposures, you might actually care about this one)

>>2961050
Thanks for that, that's a good toss up.

>lurk mode off

Couple more things to add to the toss up, and it's second hand info (but I figure as you seem poised to spend a shit load of money I'll throw it in) so you'll need to do your own due diligence...

Sonys can be weird in bulb mode with average lenses (look up Sony star eater effect), and some dslrs suffer from light leaks from the vf on very long exposures, so vf needs to be covered once you're done focussing / framing.

>lurk mode on

>>2961073
Idunno, after having $500~ cameras for the last 5 years, (t2i then t3i) I feel I've outgrown my tools at this point. Camera has become the bottleneck for me. I sure am glad I never invested in glass...

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>>2961032

Well I try to hide my brandfagging as of late but I will put one in the hat for Nikon. My D7000 does low light like no tomorrow, much better than my old 5d and with slower glass too. And my 11-16 2.8 is a solid performer.

From what I've seen the Df does it even better. Some of the 6400 ASA samples I've seen look like my old 5D at 200 ASA.

There's nothing wrong with dSLRs for long exposure, and with older lenses that have hard infinity stops it's almost preferred. I did this with technology that was pioneered in the 80s and methods that can trace their roots to the first wet plate cameras from over 100 years ago. The lens that took this was made in the early 90s and this particular method was first done in the 1950s with walls of flashbulbs the size of the locomotives they were shooting.

Newer isn't always better, the A7 series is the first camera to stand up to Canon in the video department since the 60d (which I also shot years ago) and it has its place in certain areas. Anymore these days any dSLR made in the last 3 years save the lowest and highest echelon cameras will be almost impossible to tell apart in the image quality department. What matters is what camera works best for you, I don't care for the A7 it's too small for my big hands that have been used to dealing with RB67s, large format and Canon pro-bodies. It's a very capable camera, just not my cup of tea.

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>>2960942
>why mirrorless
As i said mate, flange distance, there's a reason there's a ton of very good wide angle and ultra wide angle fast lenses coming to fe mount.

>>2960955
>CCD
Anon, it's 2016.

>>2961110
Yeah I'm not so much trying to brand fag as I am trying to learn about what sort of requirements are needed to get decent images from a DSLR pushing 10+ even 20+ minute exposure times.
I would probably shoot medium format film if I was confident enough with exposure.
>>2961126
Noted, kinda realizing I could care less about an optical viewfinder.

I think I know the answer to this, but it's a long exposure question. Which will give a better result:

>10 second exposure at f2.8
>20+ second exposure at f5

Obviously those exposure lengths won't give exactly the same result, but is a long exposure (with a tripod ofc) going to give better quality than a shorter long exposure?

>>2961291
depends on your lens sharpness, but at f/5 you can normally get a sharper picture than at f/2.8

That said, at a certain exposure time, you have to calculate in the earth's rotation otherwise the stars might not be sharp

>>2960955
Not only are you a rude cunt, you're dumb as rocks.

Ccd sensors haven't been made for years.
Sony make all the sensors you would want to use.
Older sony models sometimes overheated when shooting video in hot weather, nothing to do with the sensor, sony just have a faster processor than most cameras as processing speed is linked to af speed with on sensor pdaf.

The a7sii is the body you want, nothing comes close when it comes to low light noise performance.

>>2961302
>50 shekels has been added to your account. Thank you for your persistence and loyalty.

>>2961323
Name a body that equals the a7sii in low light performance

>>2961328
Nikon D5

>>2961328
D750

>>2961328
nikon d4s

>>2961330
>>2961331
>>2961334

>thinking static versions of sonys "everyday" sensor does better in low light than sonys dedicated low light sensor with ibis.

No.

>>2961330
>>2961331
>>2961334
Are you dumb or just naive?

>>2961328
Once you downsample the 36mp images to the same resolution as the A7s the difference between them really as huge as you'd initially expect.

>>2961341
So you concede those other bodies aren't as good in low light. Op asked for the best low light body as he pretty much only does night photography, the a7s and a7sii are exactly that.

Feel free to have a vendetta against a company, but facts are facts and in this situation sony IS the best. Only a moron would disagree.

>>2961343
>Op asked for the best low light body as he pretty much only does night photography
No he didn't, you fucking autist. He asked for a camera that takes clean images in low light, and instead of suggesting a sensible body you chose to shill what you're told to say is "the best". There are multiple high end bodies with excellent low light performance (much better than what OP would even need) for a much lower price and better features.

Nice job shilling a series with a pathetic battery life, I'm sure that's exactly what OP wants when spending long hours out in the dark.

>but facts are facts and in this situation sony IS the best
You're a broken record, just fuck off already you obnoxious cunt.

>>2961294
So all things equal, there's no difference on quality between a 5 second exposure and a 30?

Ignore star trails and lens sharpness

>>2961363
30 seconds is going to have more noise obviously

>>2961363
I mean if we're talking sharpness or anything, I can't really see a reason why it wouldn't be, though again at slower shutter speeds, you're more likely to get the movement of the stars in there which can make it seem unsharp
>>2961365
why would a longer exposure increase noise? If we're talking about 5 sec vs. 30 sec, there won't be any difference in noise

>>2960849
except sonys have best low light performance in mirorless. atleast they don't apply noise reduction to RAWs like other firms do...fuji...

>>2961352
>better than op would need
So you're deciding not what's best for op, but what you think is good enough for him, but also twice the price, and for bodies that specialises in fast autofocus and burst rate. So useful for 10 minute exposures.

Are you sure you're not just a raging butthurt autist condescending dick nugget?

>>2961363
If they're at the same iso, they should be pretty similar for noise.
You may come across some noise from the sensor getting hot, but sonys cameras counter this by automatically shooting and zeroing a dark frame on long exposures.

>>2961379
>why would a longer exposure increase noise? If we're talking about 5 sec vs. 30 sec, there won't be any difference in noise
The longer the shutter is open, the hotter the sensor gets, and a hotter sensor means increased noise. There will be a difference, but not a huge one.

>>2961388
>So you're deciding not what's best for op, but what you think is good enough for him
Well you seemed to make the decision that he needed the very best and nothing else was good enough, so I figured we would all makes decisions for him. You wouldn't be acting like a hypocritical fuckwit, now would you?

>but also twice the price
>implying the D5, D750 and D4s were recommendations for OP.
You asked for a body that equals the a7sii in low light, not my recommendations for OP.

>Are you sure you're not just a raging butthurt autist condescending dick nugget?
>says the autist that can't comprehend a couple sentences
Nice projection cunt.

You did a great job avoiding the battery life topic, so let me try again. Why would you recommend a series known for having a pathetic battery life, to a style of photography that can require hours of continuous shooting at night?

>>2961396
>batteries

I got 700 shots out of my last battery and it was still kicking. They're also tiny & cheap.

Recording 4k video you get 90 minutes per battery, and that has to do all the processing associated with video. You would never need more than 4 batteries, which still keeps you under the weight of a dslr. And for comparisons sake nikon quote 30 minutes per battery for video, so you would need more batteries with nikon than you do sony.

>not my recs for op
K, so what do you suggest, apart from "not sony because i hates them"

>you seemed to make the decision he needed the best
Op asked for suggestions and didn't give a budget, why would i not recommend the best tool for the job? the a7s is hardly high roller money if he can't get the a7sii.

What's your big issue with sony? I own a sony, pentax, fuji and nikon, i feel in a fairly comfortable place making suggestions.

>>2961110
This is lovely

>>2961388
Good thing I'm not a complete faggot using Sony like some edgy autist

>>2961379
Thanks amigo

>>2961110
Nice shot

>>2961110
Great shot, busy but not cluttered