Where did they go wrong?

>>2937183
Poor customer service.
That's about it
People complain about Sony menus a lot but I moved to Sony from Nikon, and it's a huge step up from Nikon menus imo

I have their Cybershot DSC-RX100 and it is by far the best compact camera I own. It is almost as good as my Nikon DSLR and a helluva lot easier to carry around on vacation.

I used to be a hardcore Nikon man (and tried Canon compacts) but if I ever got a new DSLR, I'd probably look to Sony.

>>2937196
>I have a hammer and it is by far the best tool I own. It is almost as good as my saw and a helluva lot easier to drive nails with.

>>2937183

They didn't?

They took the struggling Minolta camera brand and took it from last place to a close third.

Not to mention they pretty much own the entire sensor market.

No one else even really comes close.

>>2937183
They are more interested in gouging the fanbois than providing a decent product.

1. Their sensors are very good but not better by the wide margins they are hyped up to be.

2. The cameras they put them in are mediocre at best and they release a must-have upgrade every few months which amounts to nothing more than a different sensor in the same old body.

3. The lens selection is dismal unless you pay extra for an adapter and go Frankencamera.

4. Autofocus sucks donkey dick

5. So does battery life

6. Customer service is disgraceful

>>2937183
I picked up an A7r II at Best Buy once and noticed that it seems a bit heavy, and beefy. Not something I could comfortably fit in my pocket without a lens attached. The EVF was a pain to use, though that was probably worse after being so used to a D-SLR.

They are capable of taking great pictures but I like having a camera that's enjoyable to use. The a7's were not very enjoyable to use and that makes it a no for me.


Overall their products are fine for some users, but their cameras are going the way the R35 Nissan GT-R did. In the beginning it was revolutionary and class leading spec-wise, but the fanboys are souring it and making me not want to like them. And they were never everyone's cup of tea.

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I prefer an a6000 over any thing even close in price range from Canon or Nikon. You'd have to dip into the 11 or 12's to really start making me consider anything else

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>>2937183
sony has always, ALWAYS been a hit and miss electronics company
they invented CDs and DVDs, but also minidiscs and betamax for instance.
E mount mirrorless systems and high end cybershot cameras seem more hit than miss to me right now

>>2937189
>People complain about Sony menus a lot but I moved to Sony from Nikon, and it's a huge step up from Nikon menus imo

A lot of the menu complaints are from people who used older NEX series camera.

An A7 menu is vastly more usable.

Played around with my co-workers Sony ar7 II today. Holy fuck was it orgasmic.

I'd still probably go with Fujifilm but the video and image stabilization on the sony is amazing

>Gear over usability
>poor lens lineup for E mount in the early stage
>A mount abandoned
>left with no options but to release gearfagging dream A7RIII etc
>wait A mount is alive
>literally 50x 50/55mm E mount lenses
>ridiculously bad firmware
>archaic keymapping
>if you like shooting beginner DSLR's then these are the cameras for you
>Any positive memories of minolta cameras is now an after thought
>literally only relevant because Contax/Kyocera left the camera market and they got the zeiss partnership

If I had to guess, I'd say it was not retaining Minolta staff or management, because clearly something was lost after the acquisition.

I don't give a fuck about your little "muh e mount lenses" replies. Don't waste your time.

>>2937357
All sony cameras are getting a complete menu & button revamp with the next firmware.

Your complaints are "lens lineup used to be bad" and "their cameras are a gearfags dream", oh no the past and good specsheets, what a disaster.

>if you like shooting beginner dslr's these are for you.

You seem to be confusing sony with fuji, sonys have more un labeled buttons than an f14 tomcat. I've not met a canikon shooter thats known what the fuck to do when they first grab my sony.

>>2937369
>sonys have more un labeled buttons than an f14 tomcat

That is the one thing I love about a7 series.

Almost every button is programmable (menu, playback, and shutter are the only exceptions) and they can be set differently for every mode.

>>2937369
You seem to be incapable of reading and parsing information.

Those aren't the only components of that post at all. I won't address your comment about the lenses because clearly you have some brain problems.
You also seem to be confusing my post with your projected post. Don't worry though, I made these comments as the owner of a Sony camera. See past the gearfagging and get down to raw usability and there are many poor and archaic choices. Not everyone feels the need to jump up and defend a camera they purchased on the internet and is blinded by gear lust.

Some people find the cameras to be mediocre. Perhaps the full menu and button revamp will improve things slightly but it needs to come to every camera and it needs to include full remapping and not the one toe in the water approach to user customisation that Sony have adopted so far.

>>2937183
They didn't ride the Minolta brand.

>>2937378
Your right, you also mention
>gear over usability
Damn, i hate when things are TOO usable

>a mount abandoned
>wait no a mount alive
Do i need to mention the redundancy of these statements?

>I'm sad that sony mirrorless cameras aren't minolta film cameras
I'm sad that dust that accumulates in my home isn't pure cocaine, it might have something to do with them having nothing in common.

>they have zeiss lenses
This a negative? But haven't sony gm lenses outperformed everything else?

All the rest of your whining is over lenses, which you specifically stated you didn't want to talk about.

And can you quantify >bad firmware?
Bad firmware would imply it crashes or is lacking in features, which isn't the case.

>one toe in the water approach
>9 fully customisable buttons that can be set to almost any function
>3 customisable dials
>completely customisable fn menu
>2 custom modes with their own set of button and dial settings

Sorry, what more do you want, what do you think is missing?

I'm fairly certain, having shot nikon, pentax and now sony that you've either never owned a sony, or you don't have a clue what you're doing and you've got frustrated and are taking it out on your camera.

>>2937396
Keep projecting boyo.

More importantly, keep taking the 'tism medication. It'll help restrain you from making ridiculous posts defending your favourite camera brand on the internet.
Since you need it spelled out to you, this is the last reply. You can't win an "argument" or "debate" on the internet if I don't give a fuck what you have to say next.

>>2937398
>gets shown up as wrong/dumb

>NUH-UH DOESNT COUNT COS I DON'T CARE, LOOK AT HOW MUCH I DONT CARE, NOTICE ME SENPAI

>>2937398

>makes up a bunch of shit with zero basis in reality
>gets called out on it
>only response is "i don't give a fuck what you say"

Why are you here? You should be on reddit where you can just downvote whatever you don't like.

>>2937400
>>2937403
stop liking what I don't like guiz xD

>>2937406
If i say "i don't like man united because they don't play in red shirts" that would make me dumb, not opinionated.

>>2937398
I thought i had seen the worst of special snowflake cum soaked faggots, i was wrong.

>>2937436
>>2937423
>>2937406
>>2937403
>>2937400
>>2937398
Absolutely nothing to do with Sony. Nothing worthwhile to be said, not even any photos posted.
/p/ be ded yo

>>2937444
Except most of those comments were to disparage incorrect comments made around sony.

Stay mad that the anti sony crew are being made to look dumber by the day.

>>2937446
>incorrect comments made around sony
= comments that disagree with me and my masters at Sony Corp

>>2937183
They didn't hire Western people to design their menu's.

Japanese people cannot design user interfaces.

>>2937461
>>2937423

I notice you've not formed any response based around the conversation, instead you thought you would take the easy option of calling anyone who doesn't hate sony a shill.

Why is it only anti-sony shill threads on 4chan? Why do you care, don't like it, don't buy it.
Unless of course there's some people out there with a vested interest in sonys sales not continuing to dominate... Like other camera companies.

>>2937472
>thatcantberightface.jpg

Playstation, wii, my tv
All borderline unusable menus
Fuck.

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>>2937477
PS3/4 menus are totally usable; compared to the tile crap Mircrosoft shoves down.

Personally the ergonomics got me: it felt way too unbalanced in my hands while also feeling fragile at its price point. I think thats the main feeling when general people are trying it on the showroom, that and no ovf. If they made a model that you would find next to a Rebel that would help a lot with gaining new customers.

But Sony is a chartfags dream, but I doubt they can carry the company.

>>2937474
I rectified your totalitarian insistence that all disparaging comments about Sony are incorrect.

OP's original question
>Where did they go wrong?
has prompted quite a few suggestions, many of them very reasonable. You got your tampon in sideways because they are just that. VERY reasonable criticisms indeed. Grown ups would say to themselves "So this is what people are thinking, what can we do to improve." You just go shouting and pouting all over the internet

>>2937486
>VERY reasonable criticisms indeed

Yeh, this is like the 3rd time you've been asked to clarify what points these are...

You debate worse than trump

>>2937183
>make best hardware
>goofed the software
>other people buy said hardware
>1up them with better software

>>2937492
see:
>>2937335
>>2937297

Not a fanboy, I don't know why they aren't more popular.

the a mounts have good lenses available plus all the minolta legacy lenses. I recommend sony to every new photographer for this reason alone.

people act like ansel adams had a 5d mkiv

if you don't want to spend money get an a mount. If you do want to spend money get an a7.

ergo criticisms are valid but completely anecdotal and subjective. from a money/quality standpoint they do just as well as anyone else, and using minolta lenses which cost twenty bucks is enough to point any new shooter that way

>>2937492
>>2937474
>>2937446
>doesn't realise that the same person did not make the posts
>can't put up with precious criticism of his chosen camera platform
Yeah, nah.

Some people don't like the way that the cameras function. This assignable key bullshit doesn't work. Functions that can be assigned are limited, and are also limited depending on which button is being assigned.
Some people want to assign options that can't be assigned to a key, like switching between EVF on/off/LCD which is buried in the awful menu system. Competing cameras from other brands with EVF's can perform this function.

Just because you personally don't agree with why someone doesn't like a camera or a choice that Sony has made in the recent years doesn't make it wrong.
Different people have different needs and expectations from a camera, it's why there's more than one camera on the market.

>>2937446
>Except most of those comments were to disparage incorrect comments made around sony.
>Stay mad that the anti sony crew are being made to look dumber by the day.
This is the perfect example of why this behaviour is nothing more than simple shitposting. You've either used the word "disparage" incorrectly or you intended to use it and are beyond reprieve.

>>2937542
>if you don't want to spend money get an a mount. If you do want to spend money get an a7.
Are people also allowed to buy a different camera if it suits their needs and requirements?
>ergo criticisms are valid but completely anecdotal and subjective.
Yeye, they are. Good on you.

>>2937542
>Not a fanboy, I don't know why they aren't more popular.
Sony actively hates their customers. Their customer service is abysmal, which is one thing if you're a hobbyist, but an entirely different matter if you're making a living using a piece of equipment.

>>2937183
They didn't *<:-~)

>>2937319
And yet you couldn't even manage a clean pan with your D7200/70D """""""""competitor"""""""""

>>2937705
You caught me, I'm a hobbyist.

That's a side of them I've never seen so I have no comment.

>>2937698

>different camera
Well you can certainly go professional with the a mount if you need to. They just released the a99ii which has everything its competitors have, it's a full frame a mount. Other than that you can start with for example an a300 for $100 used, move to an a55 for $300, to an a77ii (aps-c) or a850/a900 (full frame) for $750, then up to an a99 or a99ii which are both professional grade.

if you're starting at the top though I think I'd rather have the A7 series, but you won't be able to use minolta lenses, which is fine when you're dropping $3,000+ on the camera.

Which is another hilarious part of the a99ii. It's a $3,200, 42MP camera that you can use $40 minolta lenses on. Too funny.

>>2937335
This. They tend to do high end well, but a lot of other stuff is garbage that tarnishes their name. In turn it makes it harder to justify

>>2937808
>You caught me, I'm a hobbyist.
>That's a side of them I've never seen so I have no comment.
Know how shitty their support for the PlayStation and related services is? Same thing with their other consumer electronics, cameras included. Canikon in makes damn sure that their pro shooters have or can easily get what they need to do their job. Sony hasn't learned to do that, and frankly likely won't because they don't need the professional market in large enough numbers to sink the kind of money into support that's needed to hit a reliable level.

>>2937832

this makes perfect sense, that's sad to see.

so I guess THAT'S why people believed me when I said I wasn't a Sony fanboy

>>2937834
I'm not a fan because I can't stand their ergonomics, but I do wish they'd straighten their shit out when it comes to the details like menus, like weather sealing, like support, so everyone else has to up their game. Pentax entering the full frame market was great, but we need more competition.

One aspect of that is sadly only Canon is really keeping sensor development honest. Everyone using Sony sensors is bad.

>>2937844

Their menus are leagues ahead of what they used to be.

The NEX menus were painful to use. There was no aperture mode, just a "background defocus" setting.

The new a99ii menu is perfecrly usable, rumor has it that it will come to a7 series, but knowing Sony they will probably not release it until there are new bodies to go alog with it.

It also seems their handleing is made with small Japanese people/manlets in mind. Perfectly usable there, but give it to a 6'6" person and they are an exercise in frustration.

Their insistance on releasing pro lenses for FE mount is annoying too. I'd love some affordable pancake priiew, but instead we get G Master monstrosities. They have some amazing image quality, but aren't the most compact/affordable lenses.

>>2937203
My best tool is a ratchet action wire crimper. Used it once. Never going to crimp another wire as long as I live. But that one crimp was perfection.

>>2937183
What are you talking about?

Sony continues to make some of the best cameras out there. It's one of the more competent divisions of their company.

4chan Pass user since September 2016.

>>2937891
>Sony continues to make some of the best cameras out there.

This is your opinion it is not a fact. Their sensors may be popular but there are an awful lot of people who think the small advantage their sensors might have is far outweighed by the significant disadvantages of the rest of the camera and the arrogance and disdain with which Sony Corp treats their customers

>>2937832
Their cs in asia is fantastic, I'm from the uk where your warranty is with the store that sold it, if it's not repaired/replaced/refunded within 30 days I can do a chargeback through my bank, and i get a 6 year warranty. You say Playstation has bad support, when ps3's were giving yellow lights of death they did doorstop exchanges, which is pretty much as good as cs can get.

Get rekt amerilards.

>>2937844
>honest sensor development
Not like sony and their lying sensor development. Tf, you on crack son?

>>2937696
You can assign a button to evf/liveview dumbdumb.

>>2937891

>4chan Pass user since September 2016.

he... hehe... heheha... HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAA

>>2937899
> the significant disadvantages of the rest of the camera
There are disadvantages to any system, and they're just about the least significant to me on a Sony. What you get in bodies and on lenses is very good.

>>2937832

A lot of the complaints with Sony support are professionals too bad to enroll in Sony Professional support complaining that normal consumer support doesn't measure up.

>>2938036
When they say "significant disadvantages" what they mean is that they have fat sausage fingers, an inability to read a manual and not enough money.

Sony is for beautiful, literate, wealthy people.

The facts are, technically they have the best bodies and oem lenses, and it's the smallest ff body on the market. Of course people are going to be bitter, imagine training your whole life to be a swimmer, finally make it to the olympics and 2012 phelps is in the lane next to you, the inability to be truly competitive is infuriating.

Check this faggot out
>>2937297
1.
Their sensors are the best in the world
2.
Completely untrue, i went from a7 to a7ii, which had the same sensor, because i wanted ibis, better af and the matte body. Other companies release the same bodys year after year with 3 year old sony sensor tech in, still no canikon with ibis, what a joke.
3.
What's wrong with the 85 f1.4, 70-200 f4 or f2.8, 55 f1. 8, 90 f2. 8, 50 f1.4, 16-35 f4, any of the batis or loxia range, tokina have their new firin range, sigma have said there's fe lenses coming. Apart from a tilt-shift and pro sports options what's missing? And more importantly why are sonys fe lenses consistently outperforming their canikon equivalents?
4.
Af used to be bad, the ii range has fixed this though.
5.
oh no, i have to pop a tiny spare battery in my pocket.
6.
Don't live in america, fucking moron.

>>2938043
>Of course people are going to be bitter, imagine training your whole life to be a swimmer, finally make it to the olympics and 2012 phelps is in the lane next to you, the inability to be truly competitive is infuriating.
I don't know if the smallest FF camera is required for that, and in 2012 I might have still been been bothered by the lenses and adapters available for that purpose...?

But it's a very good choice for most photography now in 2016. Events and journalism, portraits, products, landscapes and art ... the usual stuff most paid photographers mainly do.

>>2938051
You miss my point, imagine how disheartening it would be to enter a running race and seeing usain bolt next to you, the best you could ever dream of is 2nd.

Because sony has a monopoly on the sensor industry, and the largest r&d sector and the biggest/best production facilities, no one else can be competitive.

>>2938041
No, they really aren't. Sony's "professional"service is fucking terrible.
> aren't good enough
Know how I know you have no clue what you're talking about?

So long as you own the required gear and pay the fee, you're in. Your tear sheet could be mirror selfies and hairy scrotums, and they'd not bat an eye as they approved you.

>>2938002
>Not like sony and their lying sensor development. Tf, you on crack son?
If you're going to post on an English speaking board, try to at least bother to look up idioms you don't know.

>>2938070
Please expand on what you meant by honest then. Because it currently makes no fucking sense.

You also fucked up the idiom earlier in that post, it's "sort your shit" not "straighten your shit" unless you're describing what happens after daddy fucks your arsehole.

>>2938066
my nex 5 went faulty, reported it to sony, got a brand new replacement and new battery within 2 weeks and they sorted return shipping of the broken unit.

I'm gonna take a wild stab in the dark that you have no experience with sony support, and you're actually just a whiney cat penis.

Why are people so desperate to slag off sony on here? If a product isn't good, you wouldn't see it in peoples hands. Its not down to marketing trickery thats for sure.

>>2938075
There are websites where you can look these things up! Lots of resources for ESL people/Retards.

>>2938111
whats not honest about sony sensors though bud.

>>2938082
So what you're saying is that you have no clue what professional services are. Gotcha.

>>2938112
Can't be assed to do a simple search, eh?

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/keep-someone-honest

>>2938119
So, what kind of service do you expect? I've shot canon for near 30 years and their service has never been noticeably better.

>>2938120
>http://www.dictionary.com/browse/keep-someone-honest

So, are you saying that Canon are afraid of Sony, as you say that canon are being kept honest?

>To pitch close to a batter; throw at a batter : Keep him honest, which means, make the batter afraid of you (Baseball) (1960s+)

Or are you saying that Canon are the only people keeping Sony competitive?

because that's bullshit, laods of companies make small imaging sensors, none of them are as high quality as Sony. There's precisely zero point in a sub-par sensor brand to expand into larger, still worse than Sony sensors.

Because that's where the sensor war is really fought, smartphones and compact cameras. If you saw some other sensor maker put something that was objectively better in a phone, you would see that tech expanded to other imaging devices.

Sony don't just have the best specs for their cameras, they also have the best fab plants in the world. What would be a real tragedy is if Sony didn't sell sensors to other companies and made the camera market non competitive too. Sony put in just shy of a billion dollars into sensor fab alone last year, that's the same as 1/5 of Nikons total worth.

>>2938127
Damn you're bad at language. I'm saying that Canon is the only company that's really even attempting to compete against Sony.

And all the fabs in the world don't mean shit if there is no reason for them to innovate. If there's not a business reason to do something, a business won't do that thing.

>>2938133
>And all the fabs in the world don't mean shit if there is no reason for them to innovate.

They were the best 3 years ago, then they invested a further billion, to suggest they're sitting on their laurels is farcical at best.

>>2937189
Pretty much this, I could forgive them for the menus but jesus fucking christ their customer service is the worst.

I don't think their earning a large profit from their camera sales.

>>2938121
Do you not even know what CPS is? I can't imagine someone shooting Canon for 30 years not having some idea of what they do.

A personal story, I was shooting some BMX stuff a few years back and was under a ramp the guys were jumping. One guy screwed the approach and had to bail. His bike nailed me and my camera. My 24-70 was busted. I called CPS and had a loaner two hours later, you know, quickly enough that I could complete the shoot and still shoot the next two days...not reschedule everyone, arrange another rental of lights, etc. In however long it would take to get another lens.

>>2938134
Damn but you're an idiot.

>>2938144
So Sony's new sensors in the last year haven't continued to be the best in the world and better than their predecessors?

Oh no, that's right, they are. Or have you got this new idea where betterment != innovation

>>2938108
>Why are people so desperate to slag off sony
Because their shills mince around here every couple of days bleating on about how great Sony products are. People who actually take a lot of photographs get pissed off because they know full well what Sony's limitations are but if they say so they get insulted by an army of fanboi

>>2938170
Show me a sony shill post.

I reckon you're chatting shit.

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>>2938147
>great sensor ≠ great camera

>>2937183
Spiderman reboot.

>>2938823

I liked Andrew Garfield as Spiderman though.

But I gotta admit, the new Civil War spiderman is great.

>>2938838
What makes the new Civil War Spider-Man great? Also please don't forget Spider-Man's hyphen, he needs it to swing across :3

>>2938839

I always viewed Spider-Man as kinda dorky. Garfield was a little too cool.

Civil War one feels nice and dorky.

>>2938822
So whats wrong with their bodies.

The lens selection is great
The ergonomics are great
Popping a 2nd battery in a pocket is no hassle
The menus, imo, are fine, but still they're getting an overhaul.

>>2938854
>compressed raws
>no pro zooms
>no customization

>>2938898

Are you taking about Sony? Because...

>compressed raws

Options for compressed or uncompressed.

>no pro zooms

Flat out not true. Certainly more than any other mirrorless.

>no customization

Almost every button (shutter and menu being the exceptions) and every dial are customizable.

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Sony is doing things right, technology is moving forward and that's all I need from them.

Supposedly they are releasing a new beast camera soon with unlimited RAW buffer, with 0 pausing to refill buffer.

>>2938818

>>2938854 and all the other you wrote

>>2938926
250 shots of the cat in 15 seconds and then the battery dies. I think I'll wee myself with anticipation

>>2938931
That's quite pessimistic. Either way I'm not in the market for it, bu it's the technology improvement I like about that development.

You just need to realise eventually this technology will come to your camera brand as well, so take it easy.

>>2938931
>>2938926

>empyting you battery in a single burst

That would be hilarious. But in what situation would 400 shots in a row be necessary?

Plus I imagine most battery drain is from LCD and not shutter actuations so it would be an even higher count.

But seriously, the a9 as the first seriously professional body instead of the pro-sumer a7 series sounds pretty neat.

>>2938934
>it's the technology improvement I like about that development.
Wake me up when they have unlimited battery life, decent AF and are doing something useful with all that technology instead of just shitting out new toys for fanboys.

>>2938943
>decent AF

But Sony already has the best mirrorless AF on the market?

>>2938935
>400 shots in a row
On current A6300 / A7 it's more like 800 if you burst all the way.

The 400 shots CIPA rating is with a decent amount of screen-on time between shots.

>>2938947

Last time I went shooting I took 300 shots that day on my a7ii and still had over 60% battery left.

>>2938943
> unlimited battery life
Nonsense requirement. You don't carry infinite film canisters either, and digital will require power.

> decent AF
The E-mount already has great AF from the A6000 onwards, and a A6300 can easily be used to shoot flying birds.

> are doing something useful with all that technology
They are, but a good fraction /p/ can't get over being too poor to afford it, so there is a lot of desperate bitching about how all the useful stuff you get is just useless.
Of course colour reproduction, AF, burst rates, sharpness and resolution are all pointless and everyone should shoot old lenses on $(the camera system I am on) to produce ART with muh photographer skills, yup.

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>>2938946
>mirrorless AF

>>2938949
Probably because you probably don't wait *30 seconds* between each shot while fumbling with your zoom.

On a MILC, you're actually almost certainly gonna get a lot more shots than the CIPA rating suggests.

>>2938953
Yup, Mirrorless AF.

With the recent PDAF Sony, it's usually better than DSLR of the same price.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G98HfUIY9D8

>>2938953
>AF

>>2938957
Ahhhh hahahahahahahah Anyone can do that with a fucking telephone.

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>>2937507
It's not software that's the problem, in my opinion they mix up extremely good hardware with less optimal hardware.

You know they release the 42MP sensor with BSI, everybody is wow'ed because it's a milestone with the BSI technology at Full frame.
But everybody thinks the sensor is limited to 5 FPS at 42MP.

Then the A99ii comes along, it turns out this sensor had been handicapped by other older hardware all along.
They upgrade the traffic between sensor and storage, and it turns out this 42MP beast was capable of delivering 12 FPS all this time.

This is a 60% handicap because they didn't have a good enough infrastructure ready for the sensor.

>>2938960

Or it's because the a7 series is their gimped consumer line.

>>2938975
Doubtful, they have confirmed in interviews the high bandwidth infrastructure is coming to future A7 cameras as well.
They simply didn't have the technology available when the 42 MP sensor launched.

But the point is, they should have had it ready. But they didn't.

>>2938960
>>2938977

Are you actually mad at sony for improving their fabrication?

You guys used to have an argument when there were no lenses and the af was average at best, now it's just pathetic clutching at non existent straws, who's paying you to be this hate filled?

>>2938996
I see where you're coming from. Sony did do the right decision to develop the 42MP sensor with such a potential.

It's better to have such a sensor than to not have it.
>Everybody looks at Nikon

>>2938854
>being this retarded
>asking a question to this
Jesus christ, the influx of normies to /p/ really is getting bad.

>>2938914
>compressed raws
Sony still have items in their line which do not offer uncompressed raws.
>no customization
Yeah, already been covered. Not everything is truly customisable. There are functions which can't be mapped which should be available to be mapped and some mappings are button or function specific.

Now, because most of the Sony defenders literally used to ride the shortbus to school, I'll give you a heads up and say I'm not the person you replied to.

>>2939069
still doesn't offer rebuttal.
gg wp

>>2939072

>items which do not offer uncompressed raws

Yea, the discontinued stuff/about to be discontinued stuff.

>customization

Like? The examples given earlier in the thread were wrong.

Not saying their cameras are perfect. But these are not two of Sony's flaws.

lens lineup for e mount is shit
example:
show me a workhorse for crop aka 17-50 with constant 2.8.
Protip: you cant. it does not exist.

Every other manufacturer fucking has this.

They started from behind but they're playing a long game.
Today's enthusiasts are tomorrow's pros and a lot of them are on the a6000. Lens line up is shit but that will get better with time.
Customer service isn't as much of a factor to the enthusiast but they're going to have to take it all in-house if they're going to compete with Canon/Nikon. This "Sony Approved" maintenance shit just won't cut it.

(imo)

>>2939079
Aight marketer/brand loyalist gearfag/DPReview poster.
Here you go.

>great sensor ≠ great camera

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>>2939082
>discontinued stuff/about to be discontinued stuff
Except they still sell those cameras direct even today. It's not like it's a new complaint, these issues were raised at launch and Sony chose to screw over the end user instead. That's not great customer service. Especially not on cameras that Sony are marketing as professional grade.
The only counter to this is to say that compressed raws are a professional feature.
>customisation
Not every function or sensible function can be remapped. It's button specific. Though if you want a singular example that people would use, I'll ask you to remap LCD/EVF swapping to a button. Why not make the button, say C2.

Now that that's done I want to ask you some questions, and I think it's a reasonable request.
For someone so intent on defending a series of modern cameras, there must be a reason for it. After all, it's not like I scour the internet or wait for a Contax thread to pop up before calling people out who dislike a feature on one of their cameras. I don't feel the need to correct the record.

Why are you so involved with defending Sony's cameras online? Why is this so important to you? What do you hope to achieve by defending these cameras? What is your connection to Sony? What Sony cameras are you currently using? What is your job? What type of photography are you achieving with your Sony camera? What is your investment to the Sony camera brand.
These are reasonable questions as there's only a few possible reasons that anyone would go to these lengths to do this online. People have posted their criticisms of cameras they have owned or still own. They've posted where they think Sony have failed and a lot of these are opinions. So I need to ask you why you feel the need to constantly question and correct these considering a great deal are subjective and preferences.

I really am interested in your involvement with Sony. After all, you're not just some weirdo on the internet who has buyers remorse, right?

>>2939088
>great sensor ≠ great camera

So your reason behind it not being a great camera is that it's got the best sensor?

Nice logic bro

>>2939121
So your reason behind not understanding the post is that cameras have sensors?

Nice logic bro

>>2939109
With the endless list of shortcomings of other cameras you decide to be hung up over end of line products producing marginally worse image quality in extreme settings and not being able to set a custom button to switch between evf and rear screen.

It's not valid criticism.

Valid criticism is hey canikon, why no ibis? Hey canon, why such bad sensor? Hey fuji why no professional flashes or lenses?
Makes sony's "shortcomings" seem rather irrelevant eh?

Also, could other brand owners be jealous and buttmad? I certainly don't feel the need to put up threads slagging off other companies.

I end up defending Sony, because it's so damn easy to make those criticising them look like even more foolish than irrationally hating on a brand did so in the first place.

>>2939131
Why is the a7rii not a great camera.

>>2939137
I don't care about the A7Rii. Why do you care about the A7Rii?

>>2939135
At the end of the day, I'm an end user of their cameras and as a user of their products I'm allowed to address any shortcomings with whoever I want. At the end of the day these are real problems and no amount of correcting the record and being the "unpaid Sony internet defense force" will reverse these.

You didn't answer all the questions and the sole answer you gave was a 95% dodge. So for that reason I'm now decreeing everything you say as not valid. It's just that easy to be you.
You're on the internet defending a camera because it's easy? Well I'm sorry that this is what your life has become.

>I certainly don't feel the need to put up threads slagging off other companies.
I don't feel the need either, certainly not in the way that you have. While we're at it though, isn't Amazon just a bit shit?

You're going to feel the need to reply to this. Again, I'm sad about this because I feel like you're certainly one of those children who was left behind.

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Sony never went wrong

gonna dump some of my favs cant shoot these with other cameras lol

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>>2939210

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>>2939211
This would've been better without the boke

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>>2939219
dude bokeh is good lol
it shows you have an expensive pro camera

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>>2939229
dafuk up with that bokeh

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>>2939234
>>2939215
You can get bokeh like this with the right lens. My 85/1.4 does this when shot wide open, same for some MF tele's.

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Image-Specific Properties:
Horizontal Resolution	240 dpi
Vertical Resolution	240 dpi
Color Space Information	sRGB

File: A7img_-75.jpg (558KB, 1000x563px) Image search: [Google]

558KB, 1000x563px

[EXIF data available. Click here to show/hide.]

Camera-Specific Properties:
Image-Specific Properties:
Horizontal Resolution	240 dpi
Vertical Resolution	240 dpi
Color Space Information	sRGB

File: A7img_-76.jpg (608KB, 1000x563px) Image search: [Google]

608KB, 1000x563px

[EXIF data available. Click here to show/hide.]

Camera-Specific Properties:
Image-Specific Properties:
Horizontal Resolution	240 dpi
Vertical Resolution	240 dpi
Color Space Information	sRGB

File: A7img_-77.jpg (592KB, 1000x563px) Image search: [Google]

592KB, 1000x563px

[EXIF data available. Click here to show/hide.]

Camera-Specific Properties:
Image-Specific Properties:
Horizontal Resolution	240 dpi
Vertical Resolution	240 dpi
Color Space Information	sRGB

File: A7img_-78.jpg (588KB, 1000x563px) Image search: [Google]

588KB, 1000x563px

[EXIF data available. Click here to show/hide.]

Camera-Specific Properties:
Image-Specific Properties:
Horizontal Resolution	240 dpi
Vertical Resolution	240 dpi
Color Space Information	sRGB

File: A7img_-79.jpg (668KB, 1000x563px) Image search: [Google]

668KB, 1000x563px

[EXIF data available. Click here to show/hide.]

Camera-Specific Properties:
Image-Specific Properties:
Horizontal Resolution	240 dpi
Vertical Resolution	240 dpi
Color Space Information	sRGB

File: A7img_-80.jpg (741KB, 1000x563px) Image search: [Google]

741KB, 1000x563px

[EXIF data available. Click here to show/hide.]

Camera-Specific Properties:
Image-Specific Properties:
Horizontal Resolution	240 dpi
Vertical Resolution	240 dpi
Color Space Information	sRGB

File: A7img_-81.jpg (661KB, 1000x563px) Image search: [Google]

661KB, 1000x563px

[EXIF data available. Click here to show/hide.]

Camera-Specific Properties:
Image-Specific Properties:
Horizontal Resolution	240 dpi
Vertical Resolution	240 dpi
Color Space Information	sRGB