There's something very aesthetic about 30s-40s colour photography (the original colour photos, not coloured in b/w), especially from nazi Germany, that seemed to be quite ahead in colour photography, although Russia also knew pioneering work, especially from Sergey Prokudin-Gorsky. However, the Russian photos were made from 3 separate colour-filtered monochromatic photos, whilst (I think) the German ones were made with real colour film.
Would anyone happen to know more about what processes were used? I'd like to know how they were made and what caused the specific aesthetics.
https://www.shockblast.net/hugo-jaeger-photography/
http://rarehistoricalphotos.com/color-photos-from-nazi-germany/
http://www.gridenko.com/pg
http://mashable.com/2014/09/30/russian-revolution-in-color/#_Co1PDkLSkqk
[EXIF data available. Click here to show/hide.]
Camera-Specific Properties: Camera Software Image-Specific Properties: Image Width 1400 Image Height 945
>>2924545
Medium
e
d
i
u
m
format
>>2924550
Well of course, but what film would have been used? And what development process?
C41 was only developed in 1972 and its predecessor, C22 in the 50s, although there apparently wasn't a difference with a proprietary Kodak process already in use in 1942. Many of the nazi photos were made in the late 30s, and probably not with Kodak materials.
>>2924545
>>2924555
Agfa.
>In late 1936 Agfa introduced Agfacolor Neu (New Agfacolor), a pioneering color film of the general type still in use today.[2] The new Agfacolor was originally a reversal film used for making "slides", home movies and short documentaries. By 1939 it had also been adapted into a negative film and a print film for use by the German motion picture industry.
your first pic looks like a slide to me, so most probably was that neu afgacolor. which, according to the wiki, was germanys response to kodachrome.
>After the war, Agfa's former production plant at Wolfen was located in the Soviet occupation zone which was to become East Germany. For several years after the war, the Wolfen plant continued producing Agfacolor films, until in 1964 East Germany lost the licence to the Agfa brand name. From 1964 onwards, the plant was renamed into ORWO (short for Original Wolfen), producing color films under the name of ORWOcolor.
there you go. see if you can get some ORWO color, might still have some of that wwii magic.
>>2924557
>>2924568
Thanks a lot for the information!
>>2924576
dump more photos. its a good thread.
>>2924578
This one is somewhat more well known, I really love the splashing red of the banners contrasting with the blue sky
[EXIF data available. Click here to show/hide.]
Camera-Specific Properties: Camera Software Image-Specific Properties: Image Width 1400 Image Height 935
Opening of a new Volkswagen plant
[EXIF data available. Click here to show/hide.]
Camera-Specific Properties: Camera Software Image-Specific Properties: Image Width 1400 Image Height 931
Again, the colour red really makes the photo pop out. Although I like b/w photography too, the coloured ww2 era photos really make it more 'real' instead of just a history lesson
[EXIF data available. Click here to show/hide.]
Camera-Specific Properties: Camera Software Image-Specific Properties: Image Width 1400 Image Height 933
By the way, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agfacolor mentions that Rollei and a German company named Wittner Film still manufactures 35mm Agfacolor (or, rather, cuts/slits film from larger, existing, stock), although a source is not given.
http://www.wittner-kinotechnik.de/katalog/04_filmm/kleinbild.php This one seems to be cut by the company itself, as it's in a somewhat 'home made'-looking canister without DX code. It's E6 though, so it couldn't really be Agfacolor, could it?
From the website:
>Gutmütiger Farbdiafilm mit hoher Farbsättigung, ausgezeichneter Schärfe und exakter Graubalance. Diese Emulsion wird auf einem kristallklaren Polyesterträger gegossen und ähnelt im Bildeindruck stark dem früheren Agfachrome RSX-II 200 Material. Sehr hohe Form- und Langzeitstabilität, gutmütiges Verhalten bei Verarbeitung und Entwicklung. Entwicklung (E6) im Filmpreis nicht eingeschlossen. Keine DX Codierung.
"Good-natured/benevolent (''gutmütig'' is quite a strange word I think) colour slide film with high colour saturation, excellent sharpness and exact gray balance. This emulsion was poured on a crystal clear polyester carrier and looks a lot like the Agfachrome RSX-II 200 material from the past. Very high form and duration stability, good-natured behaviour during processing and developing. Developing (E6) not included in film price."
This could very well be a lead to achieve the aesthetics of the photos I posted, altough sadly it's only in 35mm.
http://www.freestylephoto.biz/812305-Rollei-Digibase-CR200-Pro-(E-6-Process)-120-Size
Apparently this should be the same emulsion as Agfa RSX II
>>2924545
Kodachrome was introduced in 1935 and had dye transfer processes that made colors pop out more
It's a possibility
Pls don't be a neonazi btw
>>2924580
>dat European ashen blue mist on the horizon
HNNNNNGGGGGG
>>2924598
But like earlier in the thread it was probably agfacolor neu which had the same subtractive process as Kodachrome
It could've been lumiere film as well
>>2924594
Digibase is super cheap on ebay, 3 120 rolls for $20.
btw, OP, i think new agfa film wont give you that look. itll look clean and colorful. id use very expired agfa film, or kodak vision, which has that soft pastely look (includes the blue/cyan cast if its T version). its all very desaturated ,but with high vibrancy, yellows shifted to orange, reds shifted a bit to orange too, almost no greens, unify gradations of hues so it has that technicolor quality. i think a ps/lightroom emulation of that look is pretty achievable.
>>2924606
however, even though i mantain what i said, just look at this shot taken with digibase. looks almost xpro, but it isnt. id say it gets those tones when underexposed.
>>2924606
Thanks, I'll try achieving it on a random photo in PS for fun. Would expired Agfa film be available you think? I found some on ebay, but I very rarely use expired film. Something that expired in 1970 couldn't be still useable, could it?
This picture is dated 1911, is that true?
Damn it looks awesome
>tfw you'll never be a photographer travelling across imperial russia
>>2924618
Yes and no.
the exposures were taken in 1911, but they weren't combined into a full color composite until like 10-15 years ago.
Also note: there is severe color-fringing on the ones from that series of running water, or a crowd of people where one person has scratched their nose.
>>2924618
Yes, they were made with a special 3-lens camera, where every lens would be colour-filtered and exposed a monochromatic image (so the ''blue lens'' would be blue and white instead of black and white etc. The three images were then laid on top of each other, creating the colour photo. >>2924619
Is right though, many early photos were never combined until much later, although the first colour photo was made all the way back in the early 1860s if I'm not mistaken
>>2924545
>aesthetic
Can we stop with this meme?
>>2924619
>but they weren't combined into a full color composite until like 10-15 years ago.
That's simply not true.
They were taken with the three filtered lenses and then projected with their corresponding wave lengths for a projected color photo. It's true that they weren't printed in color at the time (because there was no ability to do that, but they were seen in color as projections, which was the whole point.
>>2924618
looks like present day Action Bronson
>>2924794
Splitting hairs mate.
>>2924545
There is pretty much nothing about the technical side of the photos that is interesting now.
Maybe you like that ugly as fuck bokeh, but you can even have that - just shoot FF / MF and wreck the colors like they had to back then.
The events themselves were of course designed to impress and obvious succeeded. Nazis certainly knew how to parade in pomp and drama and all of it with uniforms that looked good rather than ridiculous (like so many uniforms of the time and past did)... but that has nothing much to do with the camera.
Would still look impressive enough with a modern P&S.
>>2924797
>they weren't combined into a full color composite until like 10-15 years ago.
>Splitting hairs mate.
That statement was objectively false. There's no splitting hairs. It was combined into a full color composite when it was developed. That was the entire point of it.
>>2924797
>they werent made into a web sized jpeg and posted on my favorite click bait site, therefore they didnt exist before that!
dont be such a millennial retard next time, okay.
>>2924853
No they were digitally combined, which leads me to suspect that there was some degree of restoration, be it readjustment of color levels in the digital realm to compensate for pigment losses or even just aesthetic choices.
>potentially not as the original photographer envisioned them!!!!
>possibly not an accurate representation of the technology at the time.
Anon was asking if it really was taken in 1911, I tried to make him aware that there is a chance that they have been modified.
Show me the evidence that the photos are exact reproductions of the color projections you described as would be in 1911 -- that there is no changes that may have been made to make it look more "modern.
>>2924855
>millennial retard next time,
Almost certainly the pot calling the kettle black.
>>2924790
For lack of a better word. It's not really my native language. I meant the general way it looks, the saturation, contrast, colour, sharpness/softness etc. together. If you know a better word for it in English, I'd be glad to hear it.
>>2924813
I disagree. Of course the subject(s) play a very large role, but there are many different films, many of them liked for specific 'looks', even if that look stems from a technical imperfection. From what I've learned from this thread, many of these old photos were shot on Agfa slide film, apparently praised back in the day for their vivid colours. Some colours are slightly shifted, like the nazi flags seeming somewhat more dark orange than deep red, which you could see as a technical flaw, but I think it makes the photos look more fresh.
>>2924861
> but there are many different films, many of them liked for specific 'looks', even if that look stems from a technical imperfection
You can easily get something with the same color aesthetics in digital post.
A lot of people like to do that for a while (as do the people who use smartphones with instagram and what not). And you can do it, too.
But it honestly seems to me like most hobbyists get over the novelty of compressed / strongly fudged colors eventually.
I'm almost certain I'd prefer a more neutral to slight HDR aesthetic if shooting these events again was an option..
> Some colours are slightly shifted, like the nazi flags seeming somewhat more dark orange than deep red, which you could see as a technical flaw, but I think it makes the photos look more fresh.
Honestly, if you are bored, play around a bunch with processing whole series of your photos with all those various "film profiles" that give you retro looks. Or your own color curves.
You can have this, and basically completely.
>>2924863
Yes, I'm actually doing that right now, but I like film better than digital. I don't even have a digital camera desu, though I've decided I want to buy one soon. I do PP on some of the negatives I scan, but I only scan because I can't print everything. Thanks for the advice btw, it's much appreciated.
>>2924864
> but I like film better than digital
That feeling has a pretty high chance to pass if you get a good digital camera.
Even if you theoretically like the look in the OP, it's not even like you can easily get your hand on the film and lenses used - but you can get really close rapidly on a digital camera with a comparable enough lens and color profile.
> Thanks for the advice btw, it's much appreciated.
No problem.
>>2924618
i kinda love this one:
>>2924884
That feel when you realise they have probably all been dead since the mid 1980s
>>2924861
>If you know a better word for it in English, I'd be glad to hear it.
Fair enough.
Here's the deal: The word "aesthetic" is relatively vague and subjective. It doesn't really mean anything other than "I find this picture pleasing/artsy/beautiful/etc." Also, around 4chan, the word has been used so often that it's really lost all meaning and started to move into meme territory. A lot of people use is sarcastically now. It's just not a very useful term on a casual image board. If you're having a serious discussion about art or beauty or something like that, it's it's a fine term, but it just doesn't really mean anything here.
If you find something about a photo pleasing, such as the color or texture or saturation or sharpness, then simply say that.
>>2924859
>which leads me to suspect
>Almost certainly
So you're arguing with people based solely on speculation and conjecture?
>be it readjustment of color levels in the digital realm to compensate for pigment losses
Again, you clearly have no idea how this was done. There was never any pigment to these. These were black and white images which were projected with colored light.
>>2924619
>>2924794
>>2924797
>>2924853
>>2924859
>>2924937
nice catfight and all, but can you deliver a masterful restoration yourselves?
lets see what you pansies are made of. here is the tiff:
http://cdn.loc.gov/master/pnp/prok/01800/01886u.tif
>>2924993
could have aligned the layers better
pretty easy though
[EXIF data available. Click here to show/hide.]
Camera-Specific Properties: Camera Software Adobe Photoshop CC (Windows) Image-Specific Properties: Image Orientation Top, Left-Hand Horizontal Resolution 1000 dpi Vertical Resolution 1000 dpi Image Created 2016:09:14 18:26:19 Color Space Information sRGB Image Width 1145 Image Height 1000
not 30-40s, 1986 actually, but i still think it has a classic look and i love it
>>2924993
I'm on a work computer, and I can't download shit, so I didn't have the tif files, but I found a larger jpg version of the three layers and just copied those into gimp. Not the most eloquent way to go about it, but it got the job done.
It's fucking annoying that they are taken in succession, so that the layers don't line up properly.
>>2925012
That's nice. I couldn't get it that close. Care to give a word on what you did? I think I went full pants on head retarded to get here. I know there had to be an easier way.
spicing it up with some good ol' large format kodachrome .
[EXIF data available. Click here to show/hide.]
Camera-Specific Properties: Camera Software Adobe Photoshop CS4 Windows Photographer Shorpy.com Image-Specific Properties: Image Width 6427 Image Height 8181 Number of Bits Per Component 8, 8, 8 Compression Scheme Uncompressed Pixel Composition RGB Image Orientation Top, Left-Hand Horizontal Resolution 1800 dpi Vertical Resolution 1800 dpi Image Data Arrangement Chunky Format Image Created 2009:06:22 13:49:47 Color Space Information Uncalibrated Image Width 1600 Image Height 2037
>>2925030
>>2925012
I guess I'll have to admit defeat here, mine looks like shit
[EXIF data available. Click here to show/hide.]
Camera-Specific Properties: Camera Software Adobe Photoshop CS6 (Windows) Image-Specific Properties: Image Orientation Top, Left-Hand Horizontal Resolution 72 dpi Vertical Resolution 72 dpi Image Created 2016:09:14 20:31:24 Color Space Information sRGB Image Width 3544 Image Height 3081
>>2925030
Copied each image to a new layer. Align the layers.
Create a blank image with the same dimensions.
Copy/paste the layers to the rgb channels of the new image.
>>2925044
Yeah, that makes sense.
I just created three layers with the RGB colors. Then I used those three images to create a mask for the layers. It got pretty close, but I adjusted H/S a bit because it felt a little red, and then I did a little cure adjustment because the whole thing lacked contrast and was especially dull in the highlights.
I retouched it a bit, cropped off the edges and changed the colour balance and contrast to make it look somewhat more 'modern', photgraphy-wise, I thought it increased the contrast between his old fashioned clothes and the medium
[EXIF data available. Click here to show/hide.]
Camera-Specific Properties: Camera Software Adobe Photoshop CS6 (Windows) Image-Specific Properties: Image Orientation Top, Left-Hand Horizontal Resolution 999 dpi Vertical Resolution 999 dpi Image Created 2016:09:14 21:55:54 Color Space Information sRGB Image Width 3201 Image Height 2833
>>2924580
>blue sky
You colour blind senpai?
>>2925161
lol i thought the same thing. that anon is blind 4u
>>2924581
Reminder that VW was invented by Hitler
>>2925538
Kek, what gave it away, the swastika?
The Beatle was designed by no one less than Ferdinand Porsche btw. He also designed pic related
>>2924588
>shoot koda color old film (1980s)
>develop color film in black & white process
>scan film
>vintage look
I shot this on Koda Color Gold 400 in an Agfa Karat IV, developed in B&W
1/2
>>2925892
2/2
>>2924580
>99% of those people are dead
>>2925893
Were you scanning with a vintage potato as well?
>>2925952
No that's just hooked from my instagram, hence why it's shit sized/compressed.
Not to mention 30 year old Kodacolor isn't the best film.
I found this on the German Wikipedia (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agfa_Agfacolor)
>Der Farbumkehrfilm RSX-II. Wird heute noch von der belgischen Agfa-Gaevert als professioneller Luftbildfilm Aviphot produziert, der unter der Marke Rollei mit dem Namen Digibase verkauft wird.
It confirms Rollei Digibase is in fact rebranded Agfacolor, cut from larger professional aereal photo stock
>>2928095
>It confirms Rollei Digibase is in fact rebranded Agfacolor, cut from larger professional aereal photo stock
i thought that was made clear early in the thread. anyways, found in some photo forums old posts reporting digibase being yellow as fuck, because its expired, and most probably mismanaged slide film, so people be careful when buying.
>>2928127
I thought aerial film was deliberately yellow, to offset blue haze.
>>2928131
it changes a lot depending on the batches, which seems to point its not a property these films had in stock form. they were warm, but not piss warm
>>2928141
Wise words.
>>2928127
It was, but I thought an extra source would be nice. Thanks for your warning though, I'll try a limited amount first, before buying more.
>>2928207
cool. please report back your experience with it.
i want to get some, but itll get queued a few months in my list of dank ass film rolls to try.
>>2924588
You mean this?
this shit is at the store by my house.
I had no idea it was nazi germany engineered film.
>>2924598
>pls dont be a neonazi
What's the matter, afraid you might learn something?
>>2928238
it isnt. the nazi thing is old slide film from agfa. current agfa slide film is rebranded fuji.
>>2928241
It has superia's green tint but it looks more saturated. Also there are more ISOs available.
How do you know its rebranded? I see "Made in Japan" on the box but still
>>2928247
>How do you know its rebranded?
its well known.
>>2924594
Not OP but from what I see in google images it looks shitty
Got any more uncommon 120 films I can look into though?
>>2928251
i think the old ektachrome EPP 100 looks amazing. its uncontrasty and neutral, goes pretty good on portraits.
>>2928255
I want to believe this is good but I cant find any good examples
Got any to share?
>>2928212
Kek, I hope the thread stays alive till I get them. I bought some expired rolls from Ebay yesterday, because I needed the Rapid canisters with the ISO200 thing, but coincidentally it still had some real Agfacolor in it, expired 1996. I fear it'll be absolutely worthless, but well, nothing to lose. Will report results, I'll make a new thread if this one dies. I'd expect the Rollei/Agfa to arrive this week, but before I shoot a roll full and have it developed (E6 tends to take a week here) it'll be most likely 2-3 weeks.
>>2925538
There's a bunch of cool shit that came out of Nazi Germany. Adidas, the Autobahn, Hugo Boss clothing, to name a few.
[EXIF data available. Click here to show/hide.]
Camera-Specific Properties: Image-Specific Properties: Horizontal Resolution 72 dpi Vertical Resolution 72 dpi Color Space Information sRGB Image Width 800 Image Height 423 Scene Capture Type Standard
>>2928593
Rocketry, audio tape, jet fighters and even guided missiles (to some degree). All in barely 12 years. Holocaust aside, it's astonishing what they achieved in such a short time. They were achieving breakthroughs in very relevant fields at the end of ww2, which is even more exceptional seeing that most of their factories and research centers were bombed to shit
>>2928593
Well damn. I thought this was just some silly internet thing, then I read all about the actual Hugo Boss and his origins as a Nazi fashion designer. Damn. I had no idea.
>>2928676
>it's astonishing what they achieved in such a short time.
>Holocaust aside
implying.
well yes its really impressive. thats what you get when you commit into being the best and put all your nations resources for the nation itself to develop. countries normally have their resources leeched off by a greater power so they are stagnant for decades or forever.
>>2928688
Yeah I know, but I assumed those things were to be kept within /pol/. It truly is astonishing to see what a country can do when everyone strives towards being the best and doesn't accept leeches. If only.
>>2928676
>holocaust aside
good goy
>>2932170
now this is autism.
>>2932194
>every corporate link can be followed to their parent companies
>jews own all of these companies in addition to global banks
Yeah so autistic to interpret readily available information goy
>>2932194
>>2932217
I know that this is off topic for photography in this thread, but your two posts remind me about this story I heard from my friend where he took an A.I. program and had it chat with people on IRC:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9rR1kOFSbM
and people talking to the A.I. program said it had "autism", LOL.
>>2932651
Its almost like if they never removed the jew and their banks that never could have happened in the first place because there was uncontrollable debt, jewish controlled sanctions on German exports and starvation and suicide through Germany post WWI
Of course, as a child of television, you don't have a clue what the fuck you're talking about, and you think all of Hitler's actions were motivated by exterminating other races.
>>2932651
Many of those inventions were fueled by war and wouldn't have gotten those massive investments in peace time. Not to say advances in rocketry justify ww2, though.
Btw, the thread is heavily derailing, something I should have known when I posted ww2 photos, but still. Anyways, thanks for keeping my thread alive until I can post the results of the films I ordered, I guess
Have another ww2 colour photo
>>2928593
I know they did that whole holocost thing but god damn they were productive
>>2933434
>did the holocaust
By the way, I'll probably receive my Agfacolor today, I'll start shooting immediately since I have the afternoon off.
>>2934551
keep us updated m8, I'm thinking of buying some based on what I've seen on flickr.
>>2933501
remember the 6 trillion.
>>2934551
Fuck, the mailman came and I got 2 packages, but none of them contained the film rolls. They should be here any day now. I did receive a mint condition EL-Nikkor 50mm enlarger lens, so this day is not entirely ruined.
>>2934735
I will, I'm hoping it arrives today, I have morning shift until 14.00h, so I can intercept the mailman just in time when he comes. He's easily startled though
Still nothing. I'm afraid it will be after the weekend, so developed photos will be next friday at its earliest, as I'm rather cautious with doing C41 at home. I'm thinking about bringing it to a specialised photo shop, as I'm not sure about how my normal lab will handle expired film. Do any of you have experience with having experienced film developed?
>>2925892
>implying
>>2925892
You're retarded
>>2936184
I meant expired film
>>2936383
they toss it into the machine, they dont need experience for that. maybe you should shoot a bit overexposed (if not a whole stop) to counter the aging of the film.
>>2936415
Yeah idk, I thought maybe some professional shops do hand development or something, but on second thought, that's unlikely. I'll shoot it overexposed like you recommended. The Agfachrome rolls I ordered are expired 10-20 years, so that's quite some time.
https://sa-kuva.fi/
For anyone interested in war photography, this is Finnish Defence Forces' WW2 photo archive. The photos are mostly SFW, which is a bit sad actually, because it doesn't show some of the horrific crimes Russians committed.
I just wish Russians would cease to exist.
>>2937382
In that picture are the victims of a partisan attack. Notice that the coffins aren't very long...
>>2937384
Pre-industrial Finns were usually quite short.
>>2928593
Historian guy here.
Not /p/ related but i need to correct this statement nevertheless. Hugo Boss wasnt existing as a fashion brand back in the day. Hugo Boss was a clothing manufacturing company for cheap mass produced uniforms. They produced uniforms for the hitler youth, the army and of course the SS... mass produced cheap uniforms for lower rank personal. And it was one company among hundreds, who could have guessed. Every higher ranking person (like in this mockup) was not issued a uniform but got it tailored specifically to his posture according to the uniform code.
Lets end this uncorrect myth of Hugo Boss designing every uniform in the third reich. He wasnt a desinger - the desing was made by the department of each specific branch.
>>2938109
but its a cool myth, u nerd.
>>2938254
they didnt color shit. they just merged the images.
thats ancient russian imaging technology for you :^)
>>2938260
dude come on...so far i split every single pic in different channels but now iam stuck lol
>>2938262
>>2938260
>>2938254
ok got it
>>2924993
[EXIF data available. Click here to show/hide.]
Camera-Specific Properties: Camera Software Adobe Photoshop CS6 (Windows) Image-Specific Properties: Image Orientation Top, Left-Hand Horizontal Resolution 300 dpi Vertical Resolution 300 dpi Image Created 2016:10:02 19:41:56 Color Space Information Uncalibrated Image Width 1203 Image Height 1200
>>2938297
Oh, the Emir of Bukhara. That's 1911!
>>2938297
[EXIF data available. Click here to show/hide.]
Camera-Specific Properties: Camera Software paint.net 4.0.12 Image-Specific Properties: Horizontal Resolution 96 dpi Vertical Resolution 96 dpi