It's all a lie

>>959997
>Salon
Ain't opening that shit.

>>959997 Dumb frogposter

>>960000 It's no more fake than Fox so fuck off back to >>>/pol/. I'm not even checking your quads.

>>960018
Found the kike.

>>959997

>Run farm
>Also get paid work
>Ideally, and almost necessarily, acquire earthy woman that likes this sort of thing
>She also works on and off the farm
>Need for little in the first place

There ya go OP

>>959997
there's a reason everyone in the world used to farm and now nobody does.

it actually sucks ass.

>>959997
Homesteading isn't about keeping your modern-bell-and-whistle existence, it's about subsistence. The simple life. Not the easy life, by any stretch of the imagination. If you want all your modern amenities, you'll need to work and farm (and find a partner who's willing to do the same, as so succinctly stated by >>960039). You grow most of what you eat, and trade excess things you've grown for things you haven't (e.g. money, soap, rum, sugar). It isn't a millionaire lifestyle, but it can be it's own reward.

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>>960042
Fucking autocorrect put that last apostrophe in, and my simple ass couldn't be fucked to proofread. Apologies.

>>959997

>Salon
Oh my god, farming involves actual work and not just making up bullshit! It's haaaaaard. Everyone who writes for Salon is a fag. If they do not start off possessing a vagina they grow one.

The biggest piece of idiocy in the article at a quick glance, "we gained no equity because we didn’t own the land."

>we did not own the land.
Own the goddamn land. Land is the cheapest thing you can buy for what it is worth. Jesus fuck what was he doing.

Here is another gem
>the thousand dollars we spent annually on cover crop seed
>I’d told the truth: I grew 10 acres of organic vegetables
What the fuck are you doing? How are you fucking up this bad, Salonwriter? Does your faggotry know no bounds?

The question you have to ask is: What is your goal? Be brutally honest. Farming is work. Some people enjoy that, some people hate it. I have no dreams of growing insanely wealthy, I do live comfortably.

1/2

>>960073
I'm done bashing Salon. You asked for stories, here.

I grow things. My experience: 1/4 acre intensively worked provides 50% of the produce my family consumes in Spring, 75% in Summer, 75% in Fall, and 30% in Winter. I live in zone 4, icy mountains of death. My family is 5 adults, I am the only one who tends the garden. I use raised beds, frost cloth, crop rotation, companion planting. When I have absolutely no time I can always manage at least the 1/4 acre.

Some plants and animals are high value, others are low. An example of high value livestock are well bred AKCed dogs. A litter of puppies can be 10-20,000 dollars for 9 weeks of work (depending on the breed).

The easiest livestock you can raise to provide you with food are chickens and rabbits. They eat what you should be growing anyways. They are technically a low value livestock at 20 dollars a head.

Consider this. Are you trying to sell things to make money that you spend to buy food or are you trying to make food so you don't need to spend money in the first place? Dogs make money, that you can then use for other things. Chickens and rabbits make food. It's just there. You could sell rabbits to make money, but it would be a poor use of the rabbit.

Again, what is your goal?
There is nothing preventing you from doing both (unless you have shitty codes).

I do not grow things in huge acre allotments. That is a foolish waste of my land and my time. In the space it takes to grow enough wheat to make one bag of flour, I can have 4 apricot trees that provide me with all the apricots my family can eat all year round (canning).

2/3

>>960073
>>960074
3/3

Pickles are expensive. Cucumber seeds are cheap. Herbs are expensive in the store. Herbs are damn near unstoppable weeds in the garden. On and on it goes. Cows are a poor use of my land, boxes of bullets are a good use of my land (deer, duck, etc). Minicows are still under consideration.

That's another thing, you don't have to do everything all at once. Take cranberry sauce. Cranberry sauce is all high fructose corn syrup these days. Fuck that shit. Do I have to grow cranberries to make sauce? No. I can go to the store, pay 1-2 dollars a bag and spend 30 minutes making sauce at home. $30 and we are set for the year with nonfucked sauce. Turns out there is a bush version of a cranberry that grows in the mountains. I will probably plant some. Did I have to plant them first, wait for them to produce, then make sauce? No, of course not. I chose to hand over some dollars to jump that step.

Farming, homesteading, fucking living can be overwhelming if you let it. Take a deep breath and look at things critically. There is always room for improvement. You will always be learning things. Where you are now is not where you will be next year.

Good luck.

hey op, the first thing you need to understand is that most people that are sustainable farmers own the land because it was passed down to them.
they went to school and achieved a higher education degree the way people with money do. then they went on to work high paying careers where they made more money that they could spends for enough years to grow weary of it. and so now they decide to have a farm. but first they had financial success, support, and security. and these are the people you see on TV.
on the other hand you have folks that scrunch up as much money as they can and pour it all into 5 acres if they are lucky. more if they have good support or they have been planing for it for a while.
there is a huge difference between the life style of the two.
I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm just saying if you are the former you are just one shitty day from dying in the snow or from starvation. the way homesteaders of old were, unless they were very well funded.

>>959997
>tfw running a small farm, on land I own outright, and have 0 debt

The article reads like anti-farming propaganda to me.

>>960073
>>960074
>>960075
I agree with most of what you say, but most of the work is negated through the methods you use. Like I have cover crops, but they reseed themselves and are edible. I rotate crops so there's no need to till since planting/harvesting tuber crops takes care of that. The weeds that come up...are my salad greens and pot herb...and they reseed themselves. I also use hugelkultur and raised beds to prevent soil compaction. That's a few examples, but the list goes on. Most of it is common sense, but as we read in that article, many people simply don't have common sense to think logically enough. Instead they do what they are told they must do without question.

Well, fuck this frogposter thread, we can continue in the correct thread: >>958315

>>959997
>http://www.salon.com/2015/02/10/what_nobody_told_me_about_small_farming_i_cant_make_a_living/

>requires a Facebook or Google account to comment

Pitty, I had this one all revved up,

"I'm a small farmer. I'm glad you are no longer farming and making the rest of us look bad with your terrible ignorance. This really was the cringiest article on farming I've read. You are like the Charlie Chaplin of slapstick farming."

>>959997
>organic farmer
>devolves into a rant about GMOs and made-up stuff about Monsanto
I hope the author and his partner starve

I live in northern Montana and there's a lot of people that make a living off the land, but they don't do it all on their own. At no point in history did humans successfully become self sustainable. Nobody ever gathered all of their resources by themselves. People have always traded and interacted with one another. One family may have had hunters. Another grew corn. Another grew cotton. Another collected lumber. People who think they can buy land in this day of age and do it completely by themselves are borderline retarded.

If you think you can be completely self sustainable alone by yourself while earning enough money to pay taxes every time you fart and cough, you did very little research into homesteading and deserve your failure and financial ruin.

>>960039

>Long drives between urban and rural.
>Elbow deep in earth one hour, elbow deep in papers/flipping burgers another hour.

How about pick one.

>>959997
>It's another "I'm too stupid to use hydroponics grow food" episode
Why do these people even bother? All the farms I know grow their food hydroponically because it's more profitable in every way. It's the current year for Christ's sake, stop living in the Neolithic age.

>>959997
Farming is only sensible if you're retardedly rich already and can afford serf workers. Otherwise it's crap. Plantation living is comfy af

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>>959997
>salon

LMFAO I have no idea about homesteading but I know that you don't get any viable information from fucking salon, my sides XD

>>959997
>Farming is arduous, full-time work and you break even at best and are usually in debt unless you get on welfare for moncropping for Monsanto or actually do your fucking homework instead of leaping before you look
>Pls feel sorry for me

MILLENNIAL FUCKING SHITS

>>960213

What, you think you buy a farm and then you walk off into a montage set to Eddie Vedder from the Into the Wild soundtrack?

Rural property occurs in rural communities. Rural communities have businesses, public institutions like schools, police departments, clinics, etc. If the only paid work you can conceive of having is flipping burgers, that's your problem.

I live in a small city of 70,000 people. It's surrounded by small farms, a lot of them are 20 minutes away. So even if you do have a job that you need to be in the city for, you can still run a hobby farm.

>>959997
>salon
yeah they don't want you to be independent in any way, shape or form,
because you make them and their readers (weak-minded females, physically weak males, a lot of obese losers) look bad.

This is a very far-left media thing, where they take a fake testimony that reads like loser's diary,
then use it as to describe their readers how bad things strong people crave, are.

Far-left media mainly works with anecdotal evidence, because stats are inherently anti-left.

>>960653
>small city of 70,000 people
That's not small, anon.

>>960662

I'm using it as an example. It really doesn't matter.

What I'm trying to underline is that if having a mixed lifestyle sounds totally unappealing to you, it's probably because you're not really that into farming. If you were, you'd cultivate whatever land you could realistically use, be that your urban garden or your 40 acres in Eden.

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>farming is hard *snif*

It isn't if you are not a fucking retard. It is literally the laziest job you can have in the modern age.

>must plow field
>sit on ass while watching tv shows in tractor
>must spray field
>sit on ass while shitposting on 4chan in tractor
>must plant field
>sit on ass while watching movies in tractor
>must harvest field
>sit on ass while watching porn in tractor

t. farmer

>>960040
>there's a reason everyone in the world used to farm and now nobody does.

Because industrialisation and land ownership reforms drove people off farms and into factories?

>>960040
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/03/how-the-tractor-yes-the-tractor-explains-the-middle-class-crisis/254270/

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>>960721
>>960040
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7Os5Okf3OQ

The need for farm hands is pretty much at an end.

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>>960734
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFy6ZAjbeew

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>>959997
Grow weed and make moonshine. But yeah its not exactly easy

>>960721

>small farm vs. multi million dollar ones

Yeah, i'm sure a Walmart can get by better than a mom and pop store. Not the point.

>>960653

My entire township is 6,000 people... 70k in one city is a goddamn metropolis.

>>959997
peasants have shit lives

/thread

>north california
I xed out then and there.

This is the state that put delta smelt over farmers lively hoods. Fuck california they abuse their farmers if anything and tax the shit out of them.

>>960075
Whats your opinion of pig farming?

Sows produce big litters, and the mud pits they create is easily converted into rotatably and super fertile crop land. I was thinking they'd be a great investment because they eat any wast, and create a relationship between them and your crops.

>>960018
>bringing up Fox and /pol/ for no reason
OBSESSED
B
S
E
S
S
E
D

>>962279
I would rather have smelt.

>>960778
Lol my town is also around 6,000 and I don't find 70,000 to be overwhelming and metro-like. But I suppose it depends on culture/mindset and the geographical size of the city.

>>962280
Not that guy, but lemme tell you. When the wind blows wrong, your life will be engulfed in a literal world of shit. Cowshit's not too bad at all. Horseshit can almost smell good. Pigshit smells way worse than chicken, dog and humanshit combined. My dad raised pigs on our land for a year. The porkchops were good, but we made him stop after the first slaughter.

>>960731
Good article.
>>960145
Pretty funny comment desu

>>959997
The idea is to be financially stable and work a small farm on the side to supplement your income/food and because you love it. If you own the land you could become financially independent I suppose, but I don't much see the point.

I work my relatively small garden by myself and help a few of my friends with theirs during the growing season and it provides more than enough produce for all of us. I'd like to put in a green house at some point but I'm not quite there yet. But I also work a job and have no kids so I'm essentially made of disposable income.

The garden essentially just cuts my food costs down to nearly nothing as well.

>>962970

what was the problem with the slaughter?

>>963013
Nothing. We killed all 5 and forbid Dad to buy anymore piglets due to the previously mentioned stench.

>>959997

Can't say that these people haven't asked for it. Reality is that unless you're subsidized you aren't gonna make money.

Western society is fat on slave labor and it's why the left will go to such extremes to protect their populations of slave labor.

>>962280
Pigs are worthwhile with a couple considerations.

Are you willing to eat different cuts of meat? Pigs do not produce much bacon per pig, so if you just want bacon invest in a larger freezer. If you are comfortable eating different pig cuts, excellent. Remember anything you don't like can be made into sausage.

Are you able and willing to butcher your own? Pigs have a much higher value if you chose to butcher them yourself. If you outsource the rendering, you might as well just buy more pork at the store.

Do you have food you plan on growing for livestock or a friendly school or restaurant nearby? Being able to supplement their feed is one of the biggest perks of pigs.

Do you plan to sell any piglets, or are you planning on selling their meat? Be sure to consider the cost of raising and feeding any young.

Pigs are less inclined to escape than goats, take up less land than cows, are flexible with their feed, and taste delicious. They are definitely worth considering.

If you plan on raising them first see if any farms in your area raise them or check with your local 4H members. Go to one and see if the smell bothers you, ask for advice on breeds that take your climate, etc. Most farmers are happy to give advice.

>>960778

Again, missing the point.

You can lead a mixed lifestyle or slowly transition over to being an independent farmer, even around an urban area. That's what I'm trying to get across. This seems to trigger people who use the dream of "getting away from it all" as a crutch to get through their shitty day.

It's the same mentality that leads people that have never been outside to come on /k/ and ask for advice on how they can walk off into the Alaskan wilderness barefoot and then live forever. But a relaxed fun camping trip with buddies? No, no, that doesn't sound like a good idea at all.

>>960074
>My experience: 1/4 acre intensively worked provides 50% of the produce my family consumes in Spring, 75% in Summer, 75% in Fall, and 30% in Winter.

Out of curiosity, what do you do to manage soil fertility?

>>963331
If you're a small operation, is it worth going for a niche market heritage breed, or should you just get whatever the equivalent of a Toyota Camry is?

>>963434
Anon asked about raising pigs, I answered. At no point did anything I write state that you have to everything, in fact I specifically said the opposite up above in the cranberry sauce section. I'm not sure where you're coming from.

>>963480
Crop rotation, compost, peat moss. I have clay on top of bedrock. If I am planting trees, I break up a patch and work in peat moss and compost. Every year the raised beds get cycled what is planted in them. I check in fall to make sure there are a fair amount of earthworms. If they need more I mark them down and add worms from the compost pile in spring.

Because we have cabbage moth in the region, any bed that had root crops gets turned a couple of times in the winter. The larvae can't take the freezing temperatures, gets exposed, and dies. We generally don't get hit by it because I cover with frost clothes when it is cold and that is when they are spawning. I keep swatches of wild clover and St. John Wort next to the beds undisturbed. They attract bees like there's no tomorrow.

Compost, crop rotation, and companion planting manage most everything. I always plant oregano and basil next to the tomatoes, I never have any kind of pest eating them. Corn goes with squash and beans, peppers never go near the tomatoes, etc. There's books on companion planting just be sure to keep a log of what actually worked each year.

>>963745
Thanks for the response. I always like to see what works for other people. Right now, I have access to what is basically unlimited horse manure, which makes things easy. I combine it with winter covers to help stop nutrients from leaching out of the soil.

On the companion planting, I get more and more elaborate with it every year. This year, I'm adding sunflowers to the corn beans and squash. I'm hoping to attract more beneficials that will eat the corn sap beetles that plague my property. Three sisters is also the only way that I have ever not had a problem with squash bugs.

I have also found that leaving the paper wasps be, except for when they are somewhere where I'm likely to accidentally disturb the nest helps keep a lot of pests away. I quit getting tomato worms when I started leaving them alone. I have come to the conclusion that a lot of problems can be solved by adding something new.

>>960778
lol no, you've obviously never seen a proper city.

>>963577
It depends. Are you raising the animal to sell live, processing for meat, or selling their products? How good of a salesman are you?

Heritage breeds tend to have a certain disposition. Noisy, docile, aggressive, curious, it often runs in the bloodlines. They may take to your climate better. They may not put on as much meat as their commercial compatriots or take longer to do so.

The question is, can you get a higher per pound price for them? Does the meat taste better? Does the breed have a history in your region or is it just rare?

If you are selling live, yes. Generally you can find buyers who will pay more for a specific breed.

If you are selling their product, like eggs from chickens, ducks, geese, turkey, quails, etc, it depends. A mix is sometimes best. If the rarer bird does not produce as frequently as a more generic breed, than the generic can be the very reliable layer, while the rarer might have different colored eggs or something else to support the higher price. You already have a mark up for raising your flock in more humane conditions than a factory. Remember to consider: is there justification to charging more for a unique egg? (Taste, color, appeal to uniqueness, etc.)

If you are selling pheasant live to hunters, they will pay higher for a rarer breed.

If you are raising to process for meat it again depends. Can you get that higher price per pound? Go to farmer's markets, local meat auctions, etc, and see if they are selling. A cow has one calf. A sow has a whole litter of piglets. Are you buying feed, grazing on your own land, or supplementing with what you grow? If you are buying feed, a steer takes a certain time to get to butcher weight. A rarer breed may take longer, and thus cost more in feed. If you are grazing on your own land this is less of a problem. Are you butchering yourself? If you are outsourcing the butchering I would say no.

tl;dr it depends. Do your homework and look at things critically. Then decide.

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>>963019

>he acquired a hunger. a hunger to slaughter. nothing can now satiate his bloodlust. save for the slaughter of the innocent.

>>963745

how do you tilt the soil in raised bed?

Also what oregano do you mean? Origanum vulgare? Or some of the other plants you burgers call "oregano"?

>>965047
Not him, but tilling happens as you rotate crops. Planting and digging up the root vegetables does all that is needed. Since no one is walking on the soil, it doesn't compact. In my raised bed you can thrust your arm, into the soil, up to your elbow without problem.

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>>960040
You best delet this

>>960073
>>960074
>>960075
Quality Post. Thank you.

>>960725
>Industrialization

Yeah, where people left subsistence agriculture to live in tenements and work dangerous, backbreaking jobs for tiny wages in sweatshops.... Because it was STILL a better life than farming. Exactly.

Professional farming is another story. Homesteading when you already have assets or an income is another story. Gardening as a hobby to selectively save money on stuff like herbs is another story. Those are very fun and or good ideas.

But attempting to be self-sufficient as a hobbyist because you want to organically fair trade away your imperialist capitalist patriarchy is stupid, for exactly the same reasons that it went out of style in the first place.

>>963745
>There's books on companion planting

Great post. Can you recommend a few?

>>966193

not that anon, but wikipedia has a pretty big list there

>>959997
What a shit article. Here's the tl;dr

>small farm
>don't own the land
>grows niche foods
>uses less than optimal pest control
>complains about being broke

Its like some people never fully grasped what industrialization did for agriculture.

>>967624

please stop being mean to urban idealists romanticizing the bucolic

>>967625
Make me.

>>967624
The current version of industrial ag is going to go away though, anon. Many of the pests, weeds, nematodes and fungi that we s that we spray for are adapting to our *acides and farmers are using more and more. Round-Up resistant weeds started appearing nearly 2 decades ago. NPK fertilizers are polluting our watersheds and causing dead zones in our oceans. Something will change, whether we like it or not.

The reason people have so much stuff in today's society is because everything has been specialized. You do your specific role, then trade money to others so they will do theirs. If you try to do everything yourself, it will be inefficient and you will end up with far less stuff than someone who participates in the global economy; you will be poor. Small-scale farming is literal peasant tier. Agriculture has become industrialized. Homesteads are an uneconomical relic of the past.

>>960040
>now nobody does.
I see people in farms everyday I drive past the fields though

>>967624
Didn't they also get a business loan?

>what industrialization did for agriculture

That isn't even their problem either.

>>967625
It is being realistic.

>>967875
Specialized jobs is the very crux of civilization. Without it, there's no civilization.

However, most of the peasant tier farms and terrible homesteads are that way because the people who run them are terrible at literally everything in their lives. There are plenty of successes in those areas. More so than failures. It all comes down to knowledge, methods, and management.

Shit like the article in the OP is just balls out wrong and retarded.