Fake environmentalists general

>>950321
Dismantle the EPA. No more EPA, fewer jobs for enviro majors. Fewer jobs for enviro majors, fewer enviros running around implementing their "genius" ideas.

>>950338
Exactly. We need less regulations for companies. Let them figure out the most environmentally friendly way to dispose of waste. Booming economy = more people pulling themselves up by the bootstraps.

>>950346
Regulation is fine. But we need regulation of regulation. Unregulated regulation is killing our country.

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>>950321

>>950321


sage goes in all fields.

>>950374
>t. composter

The compost program here has been a huge fail. They have three different grades, and the two worst have so much visible plastic and glass that people won't buy it or use it for fill. Fucking rediculous. They should just burn it.

>>950321
>the production of 100,000 more garbage cans each using 1 barrel of oil, which I remind you is bad

Making plastic out of oil isn't bad. Burning it and releasing the emissions directly into the atmosphere is bad.

>>950338
>>950346
I love how you're mocking enviro majors for having "genius ideas", and then posting your own "genius idea" about what needs to be done.

I can just tell by the way you write that you're a NEET or someone who just generally doesnt have a fucking clue.

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>>950424
He sounds like a typical redneck trumptard with Dunning-Kruger syndrome, who thinks the more education you have the less you know about your field and believes in "alternative facts". I'm pretty sure it's that climate change denial faggot from a week or so ago.

>>950424
wtf I love composting now

>>950424
Yeah just like it's a "genius" idea to put regulations on where my waste water goes. It's just water. Literally falls from the sky. Regulations are for commies

>>950458
Dunning-Kruger effect.

>>950458

> who thinks the more education you have the less you know

How do you explain people believing in global warming? That level of retardation has to be indoctrinated in people. How do you explain kids going into kindergarten knowing that boys and girls are different and by graduation they think that they are exactly the same ( but girls must be protected because they are special and better) etc, etc ,etc

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>>950321
>our bushcraft areas

>>950670
Kek

Take your pills

>>950670

Nobody needs to "believe in" global warming. They just need to examine the facts. It takes a serious level of retardation to believe that every single environmental scientist and major scientific body (including the fucking Institute of Petroleum Geologists by the way) on the planet is involved in some sort of conspiracy.

Denialists. Such fucktards.

I believe in climate change but I don't think its nearly as drastic as people make it out to be. We have to remember the data we have in terms of the earths climate vs how long the earth has been here is extremely limited.

The best evidence I can think of is found in a book "Rupert's Land" which is primarily about fur trade etc with Hudson Bay from 1670-1870ish. Although its primarily about fur trade and indians, it also speaks quite abit about how HBC has some of the oldest temperature/climate data around, and even that only goes back 400 years. Before petrol, mass cattle farms, pesticides and other things there has been vast climate changes that have happened. One incident being a frost in the middle of July which killed off a lot of crops, animals and people. These varying changes have been happening for a while. The earth has survived asteroids, ice ages, and all sorts of other nasty stuff, but still adapts and continues to exist. I'm sure we're not helping it by any means but this whole the world is gonna implode because of humans is BS imo.

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Imagine the billions that will be spent when they realize these balls are killing snails, blinding osprey, sunburning trees or clogging the wetlands as they breakdown

http://time.com/66459/portland-reservoir-pee/

>Environmentalists waste 38 million gallons of treated water

>the urine poses no risk but the city still decided to ditch most of the water. “There is at least a perceived difference"

>>950701
This.

>>950726
Plastic getting baked in the southern sun all day long and leeching chemicals into the water. Hopefully it'll sterilize the entire population of LA.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-13/oroville-dam-disaster-latest-series-ca-government-corruption-environmental-failures

>California spends billions fighting imaginary climate change, can't afford to maintain dams causes environmental disaster with a $2 trillion bill

Thanks envirotards

>>950726
Imagine if the billions that will be spent in 50 years to stem the effects of climate change was spent today on decreasing our dependency on fossil fuels?

>>950772
>citing zero hedge

Dude, I know you really wanna rage against the machine and cuck all of us libtards, but you really need to step you game up.

This is 8th grade tier shit youre posting, which probably reflects your education.

>>950780

>Current year
>Not fearing the impending ice age

Even if you were right about climate change (you're not) it would be a good thing as it would stave off global cooling a tad

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>>950321
OP. Are you smoking something or just totally ignorant?

First off, it actually doesn't cost that much more. They are just laundering money and skimming off the top for personal use. That's always the case for ANY government program regardless of what it is. You should know that by now.

Second, gaining new soil for farming is a massive plus. Let's face it, industrialized farms are not going to be switching to methods that reduce soil erosion and will always need to be replacing the top soil that is lost. This will marginally slow that down at least.

What they should be doing isn't composting for soil. Instead they should be using all that organic matter for producing biogas methane using biogas digestors. These create an abundance of methane for electric and heating uses as well as very high nitrogen fertilizer for use in farming. The reason it is so efficient is because the microbes are doing almost all the work. You can toss in pretty much anything organic from yard/farm wastes to city sewer. It is one of the things many countries are getting into heavily as part of their waste treatment, electric generation, and fertilizer production.

Still, municipal composting isn't a new idea. Many communities, in the USA, have been doing it for decades. It isn't the most effective use of materials, but it is better than completely wasting and burying a viable community resource.

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>>950726
>shade balls
>they are black
>black absorbs light most effectively, turning it into thermal radiation
>not using white balls which reflects light
>just ignore the other 100 problems this will cause

Not only is this a retarded idea, but this is a doubly retarded idea. Sometimes I think that things like this are false flags made by some seedy corporate conspiracy. Then I realize that in fact people are really this fucking stupid.

>>950786
>>950780
pic for you

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>>950801
I forgot to mention that it would be much better if everyone composted at home instead of having it trucked out. Even if they didn't use the resulting compost themselves, it'd still be cheaper and more environmentally friendly to truck out finished compost instead of uncomposted biomass; simply because of the reduction of the biomass.

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>>950726
http://www.plasticsnews.com/article/20160115/NEWS/160119829/los-angeles-removing-shade-balls-from-some-reservoirs

Holy shit i hate /out/

This board is literally against anything /out/ related

>envirotards are fucking shit up, heres a picture of a river in Colorado that had 900k lbs of toxic shit released into by the epa on accident
>OH YEAH YOU THINK YOU KNOW BETTER FUCKING MILLENIALS THINK COLLEGE MAKES YOU STUPID

>>950833
Go /out/ and plant a tree then.

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>>950833

>>950833
Another person who doesn't understand the irony of their own post.

>>950808

>Next up: recycling shade balls

>At the other three reservoirs, LA will be removing and recycling about 9.4 million shade balls.

>Make shade balls, deploy shade balls, remove shade balls, recycle shade balls

I'm not an envirotard but perhaps those if you who are can explain how we are better off after all the pollution and wasted manpower

>>950839

Trees are another environmental hazard

>Yes, just as president Ronald Reagan said in 1981. "Trees cause more pollution than automobiles do," he opined. A little later, environmental scientists ruefully confirmed he was partially right. In hot weather, trees release volatile organic hydrocarbons including terpenes and isoprenes - two molecules linked to photochemical smog. In very hot weather, the production of these begins to accelerate.

>America's Great Smoky Mountains are supposed to take their name from the photochemical smog released by millions of hectares of hardwoods.


https://www.theguardian.com/science/2004/may/13/thisweekssciencequestions3

>>950808
>shadeballs should keep sunlight (UV) out
>the reservoir has a UV desinfection plant

>>950918
>very hot weather

So when the ambient temperature of a forest is 1,500 degrees? Which happens all over the country every year.

>>950338
>>950346
>>950670
I can't tell whether this shit is real or a parody anymore.

>>950918
>>950953
I live in an area where that "smog" is produced by the vegetation. It can get so bad that everything looks hazy as fuck. It gets to be about 110F and 100% humidity here most summers as the the max.

>>951036
I was making a forest fire joke.

If you read the article anon posted it goes on to say

>Isoprene serves as a catalyst, driving the rate at which sunlight breaks down oxides of nitrogen - mostly from agriculture and cars - to produce atmospheric ozone.

Which means trees dont MAKE pollution, they can increase the rate at which human/artificial pollution can be absorbed into the atmosphere.

Case and point, the conclusion of the article.

>But the experts say the trees alone are not the problem. The real villain is the motor car. Trees soak up carbon dioxide, and respire oxygen, doing far more good than harm.


Im banking like 95% that OP, and everyone in the thread posting to support his case are trolling trying to trigger sc/out/s, which they did.

>>950458

Don't know about that moron, but you clearly don't know shit about economics or business. Environmental science can tell us what the implications of a given concentration of a given pollutant are, but it's entirely out of its depth when it comes to calculating the relative costs and benefits, or the optimal balance between them. As much as they rightly bitch about uneducated neophytes pontificating about their own field, they should at least have an ounce of humility when they start blathering on about other fields from a perspective of almost total ignorance.

>>951174
You know anon, youre actually really onto something here, and its why Im majoring in Business and Sustainability.

The primary reason people are "anti-green" is because EPA has been shutting down factories, mines, refineries, and heavily regulating industry, which means hundreds of thousands have lost jobs and the economy in certain parts of the country has completely collapsed. Instead of long term progress, you create communities diametrically opposed to the "pro-green" left who caused all that shit to happen. Then the right (Trump) rides that wave of dissent into the presidency, promising to gut regulation and build as many factories, mines and refineries as we can to bring back the economy and jobs, which basically presses the reset button on everything the EPA has accomplished in the last 10 years and arse-fucking the environment.

Humans as a species cant calculate risk on a large time scale. When a scientist says "if we keep doing X in 50 years Y will happen" its irrelevant to 99% of people simply because it is too far off to care. We have to provide immediate short-term economic incentive, and cannot expect joe the plumber to make sacrifices to his quality of life to protect the environment. The inability to do that, in my opinion, has been the largest failure on the part of the EPA. As you said, the people in charge of implementing these regulations often times don't have a good enough understanding of economics or business to grasp the effects of what their doing outside of a ecological standpoint.


Perfect example right here
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqceHviNBC4

>>951174
>WAAAHHHH our bottom line doesn't look as good, fuck the environment!!!!

t. economics majors

No amount of lead in the water is optimal. Fucking deal with it, or better yet, go drink lead for a decade and see how you handle.

>>950424
Dismantling the EPA is fine and the only people that really like it are big corporations that do business across multiple states. They like the uniformity.
Nothing stops California from doing CARB or Nevada etc from copying some or all of it.

>>951246
Yeah, I love back alley and cross-state abortions!

Letting the states handle issues that impact more than the states is a mistake and it always will be a mistake. Deal with it, minarchist.

>>951246
>the only people that really like it are big corporations that do business across multiple states

Exactly, thats why you NEED the EPA.

If it was on a state level then the state with the slackest laws would attract a disproportionate amount of business and suck it away from places with better environmental standards.

>>950321
>>950338
>>950346
What fucking load of horse shit.

Clowns.

>>950348
Underrated post.

>>950720
Actually, examining the fossil record and chemical composition of various strata of dirt and rock that have accumulated over time (the layers you can sometimes see in the side of a recently-broken cliff-face) can reveal lots of information about what kinds of plants were growing, what insects were thriving, and how much carbon was in the atmosphere, which, in turn, can be used to extrapolate how hot the Earth was in that time period.

And it's getting fucking hot.

>>951363
You haven't been alive long enough to notice the climate changing. you just parrot your 10th grade science teacher, who was trained as a gym teacher

>>951259
>If it was on a state level then the state with the slackest laws would attract a disproportionate amount of business and suck it away from places with stricter environmental standards
How is that a bad thing?

>>951425
>I enjoy people and money concentrating in certain battleground regions of the country so as to result in swing states determining national elections because lmao :)

>>950786

not this anon - >>950780

but regardless of whether climate change is anthropogenic (it IS happening, fact, just whether we are the deciding influence or not is under debate), the issue is fossil fuels are FINITE and they will either run out or become so expensive to the consumer (exploratory and extractive costs) that it makes sense to start implementing alternatives now.

Currently we use fossil fuels for more than we should. If we switched over electricity generation to renewables and kept fossil fuels for niche uses such as the transport and aerospace sector we'd not only seriously reduce our emissions but also multiply the length we can use the resources.

>>950321
It does increase the fleet of trash trucks, diesel burned

Apart from it doesn't. In most simplistic terms: If you have 10 units of trash, if you don't recycle, 10 units have to be taken away by the truck.

Now if you have 10units of trash, and you recycle half, you have two trucks, each collecting 5 units but with half the frequency.

See how it's the same at this point?

Now factor in the benefit from separating waste, biogas extraction, composting, and biofuels, etc,

>highly paid carbon footprints
do you even know what you're talking about. such a troll...

>>951403 I'm under 30 can can already see it.

>>951425
Ok now I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are in fact, retarded. I am so sorry.

Here is a hotline in case you have any questions about living with your affliction
(215)-686-4420

If you need anything else, please don't hesitate to post in /pol/

>>951461
You are confusing weather with climate

>>951446
They had one truck visit each house now they have three, do you think they use garbage trucks for composting?

>>951527
>do you think they use garbage trucks for composting?
Yes, garbage trucks that have separate compartments for trash, recyclables, and compost are very common.

>>951516
Why would you respond like that unless you can't elucidate your argument?

Here's what I'm saying: people are allowed to decide what sorts of regulations are placed upon themselves and each other, but NYC and Tennessee shouldn't necessarily have the same blanket thrown over them in terms of environmental regulations, since they're in very different situations. Places that are more developed should have strict environmental regulations, and places with little development should have fewer than the EPA currently holds over everyone.

Jobs that involve oversight by environmental regulatory authorities SHOULD move to areas where there is more acreage and more public support for those industries, and people should be able to encourage that move by lessening the expensive environmental restrictions that are currently helping to drive jobs to other countries.

I'd rather see jobs move from a strictly-regulated part of the US to a less-strictly-regulated part of the US than see jobs move to other countries with looser regulations.

>>951363
Yeah gaming rocks and shit we can see lots of stuff. Like that the climate varies wildly. The Earth has had periods where it's frozen over damn near in its entirety (thank god for algae and microorganisms making CO2 and warming it back up or we wouldn't exist right now and the Earth would be a dead, frozen world). Other times like during the cretaceous the Earth had no surface ice whatsoever, not even at the poles. Shit happens.


t. B.Sci Geology Summa Cum Laude, M.Sci Geophysics

>>951529
I guess they will replace all their trucks then, that seems government smart

>>951554
Touche.

>>951542
>and places with little development should have fewer than the EPA currently holds over everyone.

That's fucking retarded, it's development that creates pollution in the first place.

>>951542
Ok see now you're making some valid points.

I agree with you sentiment on jobs. Look at my previous post
>>951229

I dont agree with your ideas about regulation. Industries #1 job should be to make profits and bring in money for its stakeholders. You need to set the boundaries in which they can operate within for them, they cannot be expected to do it themselves.

The one thing Trump is getting right is putting an emphasis on bringing industry back to the US because youre right, it does no good having jobs leave to China. He has to do that without gutting environmental regulations however. We are a country which can afford to subsidize sustainable resources, so there is no reason not to be doing that. Every solar plant, wind farm, geothermal mine, hydroelectric built and every dollar spent on developing more efficient and eco-friendly batteries and electric engines will is a dollar spent on America, and decreasing our dependency on foreign oil.

We can never achieve that without regulation, it simply cannot be done. If it could, it would have happened by now.

>>951612

>Every solar plant, wind farm, geothermal mine, hydroelectric built and every dollar spent on developing more efficient and eco-friendly batteries and electric engines will is a dollar spent on America,

And paid for by American taxpayers whose only benefit is more pollution from the new factories

>>951623
Only benefit? Dude, what are you talking about. Do you know how much shit fracking has caused? What about oil spills? What about all of the health problems caused by smog? These are just SOME of things which wont be a problem if we stop using coal, gas and oil and move to solar or other sustainable resources.

Yes, it will be paid for by the American tax payers who will pay less for power, energy and transportation in the long run and wont have to rely on oil from countries in the most unstable region in the entire world. Ever heard of the Iranian oil embargo's? The war in Syria also effected gas prices, so did both of the wars in Iraq. Its only a matter of time before another war breaks out in the middle east, and when gas prices jump $1.50 the American tax payers are gonna be paying a fuck ton of money for no cause or long term benefit.

Nothing worth doing happens fast or without an investment of time and money. People like you are so afraid of change, and its just sad.

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>>951612
>The one thing Trump is getting right is putting an emphasis on bringing industry back to the US

>>951640
Fracking reduces greenhouse gasses, which although not a real problem, is one of your bogeymen. Grow up puppet boy

Smog is caused by trees

How many $1,000 do poor people have to pay to the environmental lobby every year to assuage your conscience?

The real environmental damage in this country is caused by immigration and refugees. Taking people with a tiny carbon footprint and expanding it 10 fold and then Big Green fraudsters like All Gore skim off millions to buy more mines, planes and mansions. You are not fooling anyone kiddo.

How many more decades before renewables can compete? 5? 10?

Nope, never

The ironic thing is that this will make for cleaner air and water, two of President Trump's campaign promises


https://qz.com/911647/the-text-of-a-new-republican-bill-has-just-one-line-to-terminate-the-u-s-environmental-protection-agency/

WE WON!!!!

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/energy-environment/-what-epa-gets-right

Took out part of the link because fake news, but they are panicing.

>Bb-but we do some things right

>>951697
>>951692
>>951678
Quit samefag bumping your thread moron. You use the same reddit spacing each time so it's painfully obvious.

Thread hidden.

>>951542
there are fundamental issues that need to be addressed, consider it a baseline, that should be universal.

As a Brit, we (well, not for much longer) have to work under EU directives, which are then implemented by member states according to their own ability.

The fact is regulation is needed, companies, just like people, can't be trusted to do the right thing.

It is not about wasting money, it is about considering natural resources as valuable - in a capital monetary sense included - and the implicit obligation to maintain the quality of whatever environment you're operating within.

Environmental ethics and corporate responsibility are good things, by avoiding environmental disasters from the beginning you avoid long term EXPENSIVE mitigation of the problems down the line.

>>951777
you just have to look at the oil decommissioning going on right now in the north sea. its expected to cost 30 billion pounds (of which the taxpayer is expected to pay 50-75%). Because the oil industry had no long term strategy there are a whole hosts of environmental issues associated with the decom process.

However, if they had filled the oil platform support structures with pure dirt rather than the oil tainted cuttings from drilling, they could leave the structures (as concrete and steel are relatively inert and safe materials to abandon at sea).

Instead the extreme left want them all dismantled, and hence, the massive fucking bill.

When it comes down to it a country has a finite budget, and only a percentage of that can be allocated to environmental issues. Instead of spending 30 billion on a cleanup that'll have no societal or economic benefit, which is a total fucking waste, that capital could have been diverted to environmental or societal sustainability development.

>>951678
This is now officially /out/ copypasta

I feel ashamed for taking your bait up until this point.

>>950726
>>950771
>>950780
>>950803
>>950808
>>950917

>expecting anything intelligent out of California

California is so worked up about the shit they've fucked up that they'll try anything to make it look like they're fixing the problem. like installing a second catalytic converter farther down stream on a car when it's highly unlikely that the platinum inside of it will ever reach a high enough temperature to actually catalyze the exhaust. or requiring vehicles to have a muffler because somehow in their tiny little brains they think it helps with emissions.

>>951796
What do you expect from people who voluntarily moved to a desert and actually stay there on purpose as a course of lifestyle? Of course they'd be the same type to think up retarded schemes to fix shit that stems from the fact they live in a desert in the first place.

>>951777
Sure regulations are needed but every government authority and structure is inept and corrupted.

Better to start from scratch and adopt something sensible. Something not done ever before. Don't sweat it Trump has our back