Can we all agree that ultralight backpacking was a dumb fad,

you really showed that picture what's what!

>>941117
>he doesn't know how the concept of a pillow works

>>941121
I know how the concept of ultralight backpacking works. You design your system so there is overlap between your clothes and sleeping bag. With all your clothes on your body and your puffy jacket on your body, there is NOTHING left over to put in your stuffsack. Best you'll usually be able to do is your shoes and rain gear, but that isn't enough if you sleep on your side, which most people do.

>just carry a gun
While I agree, prepare for libshit/europoor shitposting.

>>941161
Shoot them too.

>>941125
I sleep on my front with my arms under my pillow and my head sideways.

>>941117
So, you're under the impression that everyone who packs light is buying exactly the same gear with no variations to suit their particular needs or interests?

>>941117
4U.

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>>941117
>using modern camping gear

>>941273
Pretending.

>>941273
>being wet, tired and pissed off 24/7
but I too use vintage, that's the way

>>941117
Studies have shown firearms against bears have the same effective rate of deterring an aggressive bear as doing nothing at all. Bear spray is much more effective.

I understand why people still believe guns are better, trust me I sometimes feel the same, and have a gun safe loaded with them.

Still, you can't deny the facts, and guns just don't work as well, even in trained hands, against an aggressive bear.

>>941117
>sleeping on your back
>Enjoy the sensation of choking in your sleep.

How fat are you?

I dunno, I think packing light is a good rule of thumb. Sure people with autism will take it to far but I think a lot of people who actively shit on ultralight back packing don't ever fucking backpack or if they do they "hike" half a mile down a gravel road and a few 100 feet into the woods to camp.

When solo camping Bivi's are awesome though I still prefer a light hammock and take most of my weight on a down sleeping bag depending on the season that is

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I fell for ultralight meme but then found /fit and decided that backing light is shit.
Lot more usefull to do some squats, deadlifts and OHP:s and get strong enough to carry what I want into the woods. Now I'm some sort of pack mule when I go out with dad or wife. Pic related. My backbag and gun. about 30 - 35 kg equipment in total. Blue backbag and fishing pole is dads. Went to 9 day fishing/hunting hike to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muotkatunturi_Wilderness_Area

>>941283
nah i get what he's on about and I'm lanky

It's not a fad, it's the future. We found a better way to backpack. We as humans constantly replace old things with better ways to do it.

>>941249
This
op is an idiot

>>941354
If it were replaceable in that aspect I would agree. I would absolutely LOVE taking 12lbs of stuff in to the woods for a week long set up. But that same set costs thousands and has no warranty on damage during use. So that's a full price replacement. That's not about being poor either, that's just common sense regardless of your income. But there's no way I'm going to spend that kind of money on that kind of stuff to run the chance of having to buy again after a year. Especially when I can do that for cheaper gear 2-3 times for half of the price.

>>941117
>>sleeping on your back
>Enjoy the sensation of choking in your sleep.
You should see a doctor; you might have sleep apnea.

>>941117
>needing this diagram to set up a camp
how fucking lazy and spoonfed are people right now?

also
>shoes on both sides, right by elbows
>not on one side by knees
who wants a haggard, stinking shoe right by their face no matter how they roll over?

>>941419
This. I thought this as soon as I read that. OP explain yourself I sleep on my back all the time no prob

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>>941273
Does anyone on /out/ do historical backpacking or trekking? Not to derail this thread or anything but don't think the interest warrants a thread of it's own. Anyone have any good reading material for traditional/historical bushcraft/trekking?

>>941249
>So, you're under the impression that everyone who packs light is buying exactly the same gear with no variations to suit their particular needs or interests?
Actually, if you read the gear lists posted on places like whiteblaze and BPL forums, yes.

>>941281
>Studies have shown...
>Bear spray is effective at all
>these are THE FACTS
>you can't deny them

lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvnx4M293oU

>>941436
You probably snore too, fucking animal.

So if it rains the shoes are soaked?

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>>941273
>being a sellout and going home to your air conditioned apartment with running water
Pussies

All gear today is ultralight compared to the stuff in the 70s. And all of it will be considered crude, heavy shit when we have spidersilk tents, aerogel jackets and heated sleeping bags powered by LENR batteries that last a month.

>>941466
re-enactors tend to be some of the most passionate lifestylists, snowalker13 on youtube is one of my favorite channels from memory. bushcraft and 18th century reenacting

>>941403
>>941354
It's nice to know that I can throw together a pack with a 5 pound base weight and still be relatively dry and warm in fall- or spring-like conditions on the trail, but these systems are really easy to cause to break down and not at all forgiving to mistakes.

For example, you can pitch a tent just about anywhere and tents are forgiving of bad site choice. However, you had better make sure that you've chosen a tarp site with perfect drainage, and perfect cover from blowing rain, because even though you may manage just fine during 99% of rain storms - you may actually THINK you're doing it right - when that freak storm-of-the-year hits you while you're out camping, the area under your tarp could easily get flooded and your down sleeping bag could easily wet out - ending your trip early.

Another example. Let's say you're treating your water with Aqua Mira and because you're going ultralight, you have a silnylon backpack. However, you were careless and got a drip of Aqua Mira on the outside of your water bottle, which transfers to your backpack. When you arrive at camp, you realize that the chemical has eaten an apple-sized hole in the side of your backpack. You patch the hole with duct tape, but basically, you just ruined your $200 pack permanently and it has no warranty.

>>941320
Packing light is still the rule of thumb. The fad I'm talking about is having a bunch of incomplete systems (shelter, sleep, clothes, cooking) that depend on each other in order to save weight overall. For example, only bringing a 1/2 length sleeping pad and using your backpack under your legs. These gear systems are neat to look at under a microscope and it's even neater to test them out in the wild and prove that they work. However, they're not so neat to use repeatedly. They're uncomfortable, the gear is prone to damage more easily, necessitating repair or full replacement at your expense.

>>941125
it says right in the picture to use ziplock bags. gently inflated, they are far more comfortable than a single bladder air pillow.

>>941520
Great way to break your valuable ziploc bags.

>>941403
what are you talking about as far as warrany? maybe of the top end manufacturers offer unconditional lifetime warranties. sure, they cost more than military surplus, but they perform very well in every metric a backpacker would care about.

I have a nice 3 season, 9lb setup for the american pacific northwest, and it cost me about 1200 USD, including clothes.

>>941476
>>whiteblaze
so a community centered around doing one thing, has largely come to a consensus about how to do it? what a shocker.

>>BPL
you've not read it. there are entire articles on how ultralighting needs to be adapted to the situation and individual

>>941476
Yes, I certainly have read those lists; I did a ton of research on loadouts specific to weight reduction when I was preparing for the PCT. I also made changes based on what I thought would work best for me, and as I found out when I was actually on the trail, so did everyone else. In fact, I didn't meet any two people (except possibly one couple traveling together) that had the same gear.

There isn't a single UL loadout, there's a few general guidelines and some common methodologies, but the only true commonality between what any two ultralightists will choose to carry is that they're both trying to reduce their total weight by reducing the amount of gear that they carry.

>>941503
>>941515
>>941525
The best, most reliable and lightest gear that I own has also turned out to be the cheapest. Just one example being my $10 CCF pad; I've cut it, poked holes in it, slept on it and consequently rolled and unrolled it hundreds of times and it works just as good as the day I bought it. High tech and super expensive doesn't always mean better. Sometimes, just not always.

>>941283
I came here to say this. OP should get checked for sleep apnea, maybe he'll stop being such a cranky ass bitch

>>941608
I posted >>941525 and I'm in full agreement with you. I use a long wooden spoon to cook and eat with that cost $1 at ikea.

it takes knowledge and forethought to pick the right gear for the job.

>>941523
those are dedicated pillow ziplocks, or ones that I've emptied of food and washed clean. you'd be surprised by how much weight a bag of slightly inflated ziplocks can bear.

>>941638
My wood pack stove is just a pumpkin pie tin with holes punched in it. It's nice to have a quick fire without having to build a stone ring every time I stop someplace.

My mountain bike is outfitted with custom bags made from a duffel bag I picked up at a thrift store. This saved me over $300, and fits better than ordered bike bags.

My pack pole is a section of PVC pipe. Funnily enough, I can cast with it almost as far as I can with my high-end non-pack pole, but it only cost $1 and weighs almost nothing.

And I still think that the supercat is an amazing stove.

>>941283
Kek

>>941348
Slenderman/10

>>941348
>>941283
>>941609
>>941663
Not OP but I can't sleep on back because I get sleep paralysis like five times a night if I do.

>>941786
You also should go sleep a sleep doctor. Sleep paralysis is a sign for narcolepsy. Or you could just be a fat fuck at having mid-REM arousals due to severe OSA which can have a similar feeling. Either way healthy human beings shouldn't have severe medical complications associated with sleeping on their backs.

>>941525
There is no warranty as far I know. Which is my point to that. The price point for the poor durability in exchange for the weight is not economic in the slightest. As I said, I love the idea of a 12lbs set up but there's no possible way that that gear is going to forgive any mistake that you make and getting a replacement is all but cheap. Can I get a feather light tent and bivy set up? Sure, but it's $600 at a median price range and rips incredibly easy. But a tent from say Eureka! is 100-200 and some other more durable brands are $250+ and that's still cheaper and more durable than the former. If you're going to charge that kind of price for such flimsy material, offer a warranty.

but I just saw this on /k/ op

>>941466
>Does anyone on /out/ do historical backpacking or trekking?

Damn straight, as well as hunting. 15thC and 18thC.

I was actually debating on making a thread for historic /out/ if there is enough people to make it happen.

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>>941975
I'm in.

When you get on my level.

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>>941117
>shoes near elbows
>bringing a tarp to just use it as a pillow, not as shelter / wind shield
>"slight dip" for your fat ass
Have a metric ton of WHAT?!s.

Sleeping in all your clothes. How retarded is this? Am I the only one who noticed that? Onion principle?

>>941975
I'm down for a thread, make it happen man

>>941975
Had no idea you were an /out/ist as well as a fa/tg/uy, Gropey.

>>941281
Deterring? You fucking kill it.

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>>942008
I used to do neolithic and bronze age modern primitive camping, in my younger, leaner days.

Then I grew out of it.

Evolve to my level.

>>942064
As soon as I get home, I will.

>>942070
Damn straight. I spear hunt boar, bow hunt deer and pheasant, and do a little trapping. One of these days I wanna get into ferreting. Also blackpowder hunting from time to time.

>>942027
Ideally, you have all your socks on and no pant.

>>941161
>>941192
Time for you to fuck off back to /k/

>>942164
Sweet, looking forward to it. Britfag Re-enactor here so my historical camping is limited to the Uniform and Equipment issued to a british soldier in 1808, there are about 8 of us that do it in my group of about 30 reenactors. Will contribute to the thread as much as I can when It's up

>>942164
>evolve to my level

What? A plastic bottle of honey?

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>>942273
Bruh. Get you some State Fair corn dogs and some honey that comes in the little plastic bear and you straight.

>>942273
I assume he refers to the bronze(?) knife, which is pretty cool desu.

>>942274
>blinding my honey bear

thatsjustsocruel.png

>>942277
>assuming

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>>942027
>>942173
The idea is to have a full set of dry sleeping clothes. Generally, people will just wear a clean, dry base layer to keep body oils out of their sleeping bag and to further insulate them against drafts that come into the bag from the face hole.

Thinking you need to be naked in sleeping bags is a wives' tale propagated by non-enthusiast campers who bring incorrectly-rated sleeping bags and end up sweating in them regardless of what they wear due to too much insulation in the bag. That said, you shouldn't need to bring such a lightweight bag that you absolutely need to wear your clothes just to be warm (some super ultralight hikers do, but it's easy to go wrong with such systems).

>b-but I was in my country's conscripted military/brigade and we all learned the hard way to sleep naked
Being a grunt does not make you an expert on sleeping bags. You were doing it wrong, simple as that.

>b-but granpappy always tole me to do it this way so that's why. period.
I find that most people who believe that you should be naked in a sleeping bag really don't have a clue why because they've never thought about it.

Here is a short list of negatives:
-If you sweat at night, your sweat is going straight into your insulation if you're naked. Goose down doesn't loft as much when it's covered in body oils, so direct skin contact with the bag should be avoided
-You won't sweat, either way, if your bag is correctly rated to the expected temperatures or you properly use the zipper as a vent (easier to do if you are clothed)
-If you shift around at night, a little air will come into the bag from the face hole or zipper, chilling you and interrupting your sleep. Wearing a base layer keeps you comfortable when this inevitably occurs.
-When you get up to pee, or to tighten a guy line on your tent, you will be reasonably well insulated for the short trip outside. If you're totally naked, you could start shivering, costing you energy and making it harder to get back to sleep.

>>942164
That's one fat hand.

>Leaner days.
Well there we go. Maybe camp a little less comfortably and you'll get there again.

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>>942467
>well thought out and well explained answer from someone who obviously has experience

>>942018
I feel the same way when I see something like OP's infographic in an outdoors camping or backpacking magazine. Like, at least they could give some context and background, but usually the information is presented with no context, as the next new craze and we all need to get on board.

I think it's funny how you act like this photo is the only example of "ultra light backpacking".

For me, it's my tarp, my hammock, and my sleeping bag.

Built a system that works for _you_. I like cutting out the bulk of the weight because it lets me go longer, further, with less crap to haul around.

>>942612
>I think it's funny how you act like this photo is the only example of "ultra light backpacking".
Give me a break. That is not what I'm saying. It's an example for people not so familiar with ultralight backpacking to be able to wrap their heads around how the different systems interact with each other and how multipurpose gear fits into the sleep system.

If you want to give me another clear example, I'll gladly critique it.

>>941117

>>941117

I dont know what the fuck you're on about.

I've always tried to lighten up weight regardless of internet fashion and trends. I think its very reasonable to do.

The test to be a mountain guide where I live is done with a 15kg load. Normally I pack around 5 to 7 kg.

Do you even go outdoors? Why would you base your oppinion on packing less weight on an internet image?

>>942668
(You)

>>941354
The current state of the ultralight culture is most definitely not the future of backpacking. Many ultra light packs have poor support. Some may be fine, however ultralight limits an individual to carried weight (which is the whole point, yes) but this limits food and water carried, making for more resuply, which is annoying. If you are carrying an UL pack with food and water that weighs 30 pounds, it going to feel a lot more like 40 pounds. If you use a pack that carries 40 pounds but feels more like 30 pounds, which would you choose? I believe firmly in going with lighter gear for example, sleeping bag, tent, clothes, and so on. However, the current state of UL is too absorbed in empty pack weight, which quite frankly is cancer. Instead of buying a pack that weighs 1.4 pounds and carries a 30 pound load and strains your back and hips, why not opt for a 2.8+ pound pack with better support/suspension/durability that will carry loads more efficiently?

>>941281
so you're telling me that if i shoot a bear in the head with my 12 gauge shotgun, it won't do anything? yeah bullshit

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>>942824
This. Ultralight started with good intentions, but it's become a pissing match.

>>941346
30-35kg
66-77lbs?
What the fuck you got in there? Gallon ziploc bags full of shot?
1+1/2 bags of concrete mix?
what the fuck?

>>943616
>Gallon ziploc bags full of shot?
Are you one of those liberals who thinks that every hunting rifle is a "musket"?

>>943696
Hey bro, leave muskets out of this. What did they ever do to you?

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>>943696

Not >>943616
But I think he means shot as in shot shells

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>>943616
Things just add up pretty quick.
>Backbag 4kg
>Sleeping bag 3kg
>Tent 5kg
>Baikal shotgun 4kg
>Shells 0,5kg
>Canned foods 2 kg
Then there are pots and pans, shitloads of chocolate and raisins, clothes, shoes, first aid kit, whiskey, coffee, salt, sugar, spices, rye bread, huge meme knife, soap, and so on and so on. But honestly its not that bad to carry stuff when backbag is adjusted just right. And
Lots of gear = lots of comfy in the wild.

>>941346
I bring my bicycle and bring a backpack with a hoodie and a wool blanket, a knife, 2 pounds of nuts, a fishing pole and a bottle to hold water. I usually ride about 50 miles out into a national forest and go as deep as possible. If the fishing is good I stay for up for a month, if no fish in the streams I find I will stay til my nut sack is empty. Yes forever alone, nobody is willing to camp the way I camp, I build my own shelters and fires etc and bring almost nothing. People don't think it's fun but I do.

>>943816
If you like to camp that way then great.

Also what a coincidence. I too have empty nut sack when I camp with wife.