Saws (Crosscut)

Watch some videos about crosscut saws here
https://www.youtube.com/user/wranglerstar

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>>921995

I prefer an M tooth pattern, alot easier to sharpen.

I have the smaller model of pic related and even a blunt vintage saw cut better as they are hammered to a taper from the tooth area to reduce binding. Pic related is not and the teeth arent set very well.

Does anyone have any recommendations for getting a hold of a one person crosscut saw?

>>923259

Too many middle class clowns watching wranglerstar snapping them up. Price is way up there.

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Dunno about those big ol timey hand saws but my 10" Corona Razorsaw is ridiculously effective at crosscutting. With its thin kerf I bet it would be a small fraction of the effort per inch sawn vs an old fashioned design.

>>923273

Not quite, a properly set and sharpened crosscut will be throwing noodles of wood rather than the dust your saw creates.

I carry a bahco laplander myself in my smock but thats purely for conveniece rather than carry a 6ft saw.

>>921995
Vintage saws are absolutely not better quality. Today's metallurgy is absolutely better, production methods are better especially for tools like this. If you buy cheap you will be disappointed but there are plenty of companies producing top tier gear.

>>923268
Buy one new.
>>923273
Must be why they

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>>923273

curved saws like that are muffcabbage unless you're trimming 1" branches. In which case, get a ratcheting clipper which is significantly smaller.

>>923273
fuck yea, those saws (we call em silky/samurais) are amazing. If you follow the rule of saw blade length is 2.5 times max diameter of what you're cutting, you can still do good work with those.

>>923594

Who? Tuatahi is the only company making saws I am aware of.

>>923288
Crosscutting creates sawdust. That's why a crosscut saw blade has many more teeth than a rip blade. It has to make many more cuts per revolution to cut through all the end grain.

You're thinking of rip cuts which often result in wood spaghetti flying everywhere. There are much fewer teeth and much deeper gullets to clear away the spaghetti without clogging up the blade.

Also, a sawblade with a thinner kerf can make a low-powered saw cut as fast as a high-powered saw with a normal kerf blade. This is why the thin-kerf Japanese pull saws cut so fast and easily compared to fat Western saws. They don't need thick spines to keep the blade straight for a push cut, while a Japanese saw can be as thin as paper and not worry, because it is pulled straight during the cut.

Push cut saws are a stupid design and they need to get out of the fucking way for the Japanese master race. There, I've said it.

>>923699
Lynx ,Caliper, Grennor, Vraille

>>923720
You poor weabooo

>>921995
For this amount of money you can buy a used chainsaw from craiglist. And have some to spare to buy a new chain and a chain sharper. i always replace chains on used chainsaws because 99% of the time someones burnt it out already or sharpened it with like a field stone.

>>923853
I'm not weebing out at all I'm afraid. If you had two brain cells to put together you could have figured it out yourself.

A push cut saw cannot have a thin kerf, because the blade needs thickness to not fold in on itself during the push stroke. A Japanese saw can. The thinner the kerf, the less sawdust you have to create the cut. Creating more sawdust with your muscles takes extra work. Jesus. JUST

>>923869
You could literally make two fucking saws the same width steel, one being western and one being weaboo and there would be the same amount of sawdust because you are removing the same fucking amount of material.

>>923869
Can you even into misery whip boy? You think a fucking pull cut saw could take down the redwoods? Get the fuck out of here

>>923869
The difference is between a titanium stilletto hammer and a heavy 26 oz steel hammer.

A pull cut saw requires twice the amount of strokes, where a push cut saw requires half.

A pull cut saw excels at one very small part of wood working, where a push cut saw, the ones you are referencing at least can pretty much do it all. The funny thing is there ARE lots of western saws made with a pull cut, and they are used for cabinetry.

What ever saw you pick, go to Canada and cut down some trees. free parks pass for 2017 at
http://www.commandesparcs-parksorders.ca/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/en/parksb2c

>>923944
The parks are regulated, you can not just go cutting trees wherever you feel like.
Normally I would say, "are Amerifats really this stupid?" However you are just an underachieving American troll it seems.

>>923937
Sure that's all well and good, but no. The saws wouldn't be the same because the Japanese saw doesn't have or need a retarded thick blade.

>>923852

None of these companies seem to exist except for Lynx.

>>924041
Two of them are Canadian, and there is another one called Wilhelm pusch or something in the EU I believe. Just because you are incapable of googling with your fat cheese encrusted american spirit fingers does not mean that they do not exist.

>>924007
Japanese saws can't take large diameter stock.

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>>923720
>>923273

hesrightyouknow.png

>fucking weeb tho ^_^

>>921995

I have a few large timber cutting Japanese saws and never would I go back to a western crosscut saw, even one throwing noodles because of a champion sharpening job. The thin kerf, pull saw design simply makes better use of the the human body, properties of matter, laws of physics and whatnot.

Oh they are also lighter, less tiring to use, handy in a ladder or other more acrobatic positions... I could go on.

You can either use disposable, electrically hardened blades (impossible to sharpen but last a crazy long time unless you cut dirty logs or hit hidden metal), or you can buy traditional saws with blades that can be sharpened. Yo do need special files, good technique and experience to accomplish a proper sharpening on a Japanese saw, but there is far less metal removal needed so it is goes fast once you master it.

Pic related is my favorite one, but I prefer to use this one http://www.leevalley.com/en/garden/page.aspx?cat=2,42706,40721&p=75157 when logging or trail clearing, and this one http://www.silkysaws.com/Silky_Saws/Folding-Straight_2/Silkys-BIGBOY-360mm-LG-Teeth-Hand-Saw around the yard. I have tried others that were okay too.

OF COURSE it's an exaggeration to say "it's like a manual chain saw mane" but it's really surprising how powerful these saws are. Especially when used by 4chan users one would suppose, as the motion of using a Japanese saw is almost the same as jerking off.

Most modern Japanese saws can take different blades and it's easy to switch. In the case of pic related I have two so I can always have a sharp blade when I need it, and for the silky ones I have blades of different shape and TPI (tooth per inch) for different applications.

Please OP just give it a try and you'll probably be a sawblade weeaboo too in no time

I'll try to come back to this tread later if someone has questions about Japanese saws, I have much to say about them!

>>924096
Holy fucking keklmao this is what Amerifattoes are really like.

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>>924096
never seen anything like this, looks like the blade would be sort of flimsy, judging by your pic it looks a little bent already. Also the tooth pattern doesn't look to aggressive. Not trying to hate just want to know why you think this is superior?

I live in Canada and when cutting spruce, poplar or birch I find pic related to be the best, woould have a hard time seeing why you'd want that if you're going for something bigger then a hand saw.

>>924096
Bring your weaboo sword fighter saw to a competition faggot, a cross cut is gonna make you cry

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>>924125

Well I could humorously reply that it wouldn't be fair because glorious nippon steel cuts like katana but actually, that's not the idea at all. I do enjoy watching these lumberjack competitions from time to time, but I would never think of participating! These guys are professionals and really dedicated. Also, the competition can only be fair if everyone is tested by the same standards. Skiers and snowboarders shouldn't be thrown together in the same events at the olympics! I suppose there are japanese, or korean, or iraqi, or turkish lumberjack (or whatever the fuck they are called) competitions where pull-saws are used, but a quick search did not yield much info on such events.

I think what someone has been exposed to during childhood and local craftsman culture are really influential as to which tool you reach for to do a certain job. There are many ways of achieving the same result.

Also, loggers or carpenters who have pushed various saws all their lives probably have tremendous skill related to pushing saws, and their body and musculature must be used to it. Using pull-saws since birth must likewise affect the mind and body to be efficient in different ways. Myself I've only discovered japanese saws 5 or 6 years ago, and immediately I was going "ohgodyes.jpg why aren't all saws like this, why didn't I discover this sooner, how could I live without this, etc." but you know, personal preferences do fucking vary and that's alright.

I'm a woodworker and I manage a small forest that is mostly accessible only by foot. I like to get my lumber from the tree as much as I can and for that I know local lumber guys who wield the chainsaw and drive the tractor and operate the sawmill for me. I really have to be working wood in the shop after all. But when I am walking in the forest, I really enjoy the light weight and small form of a broken down or folded japanese saw, requiring neither tools nor fluids, cutting quietly and efficiently in any condition. JUST

>>923943
You have it backwards, shit for brains. A pull saw cuts twice as much as a push saw for the same effort, or cuts the same amount with half the effort. Take your pick.

The reason being that the pull saw is half as thick. Really. Why is this such a difficult concept?

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>>923720

Thanks for explaining it to me, I guess I have been doing it wrong. Ill put away my saws and purchase a folder.

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>>924124
>>924125

Sawblade weeaboo swordfighter here. This post about bringing my faggot nippon saw to a lumberjack competition got me thinking. It's a tool I use to work, I never thought about it in a competition frame of mind. It's the best tool I know of to do what I need to do. Is it really?

I just did a quick test with the biggest piece of lumber I had lying around at the house, a 6X6 piece of hemlock, quite dry (leftover from a remodeling project). Unfortunately I cannot compare with a proper western crosscut saw, since I do not have access to one here. I used pic related with a brand new blade.

>dat korean lumberjack pose

A casual first cut took 50 strokes and about 30 seconds, and next I went at it with everything I had and it took 47 strokes in about 20 seconds. The timing is approximative since I had to start the timer, make the cut, stop the timer, so maybe one or two seconds off either way.

Feels pretty superior compared to my experience with western crosscut saws. This saw weighs just 1kg (easy to move back and forth for quick strokes) and fun fact, I was doing the test in the basement beneath the room of a sleeping 3yo without disturbance.

Set of pics to follow

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>>924502

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>>924502
>>924504

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>>924502
>>924504
>>924505

leaves a pretty smooth surface

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>>924502
>>924504
>>924505
>>924508

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>>924124
>>924502
>>924504
>>924505
>>924508
>>924510

The saw I used next to the saw I posed earlier. It is a little bent around one tooth as the picture shows I think, but this happened after the cut as I hit something, not while cutting.

If you are careful, it's almost impossible for a pull-saw to bend or buckle while cutting, as the cutting action pulls the blade taut (only when going back into the kerf to make the next stroke can the saw buckle, and that shouldn't happen) That's why a much thinner metal can be used for the blades. Good japanese blades are tapered from the handle to the end AND from the teeth to the back, resulting in a very light and thin blades that resists the tendency to bind in the cut.

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>>924502
>>924504
>>924505
>>924508
>>924510
>>924516

Sawblade closeup. Quarter for scale along with other coins sporting a fucking polar bear and the alleged queen of canada, hue hue I guess I should have posted about my favOUrite saw earlier =)

>inb4 a fucking leaf

>>924472
Pull saws are only used in special snowflake conditions faggot. Admit it. Oh you just did...

>>924502
Lol so you have no way to make an accurate comparison, have little personal experience first hand much less the skill to wield a western crosscut saw yet you're arguing your weaboo shit is better?
Oh my sweet fuck 4chan is amazing place.

>>924516
>>924502
>>924472
>>924096
>>924007
>>923943
>>923869
>>923720

The fucking tooth design is the difference, not the fucking overall shape of the blade or thickness of the metal. Jesus fucking Christ.

>>924530
Well I wish I could make a side by side comparison just now but the western crosscut saws I inherited from my father are at my shop, an hour and a half drive from here! I don't need to go very often, but I would really like to compare the results. Next time I'll go there I'll certainly bring along the 6x6 hemlock I used just now, and give it a go with the vintage crosscut saw, various bucksaws, chainsaw etc. For science! I just can't now. This thread will likely expire till then but if there is interest I'll make a new one. Suggest the title so you can look it up later, faggots.

>I was thinking "gay ass weeaboo pullsaw vs traditional all-american crosscut saw"

Seriously it's not a matter of which is superior to which! Personal preferences and past experience are important. I just wanted to tell OP my answer to the question of what crosscut saw is a nice choice. Another option to consider while making a decision about which saw to get cannot be that bad?!

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Here's the saw you need

>>921995
If you can see up close the teeth then go for it, but ordering random saws online from stock images....not too sure about that. I really suggest you peruse antique stores if you local hardware doesn't have proper saws for your needs. The saws will be old and rusty, but they are easy to fix up. You can also examine the distances between the rakes & cutters as well as their height relation.

Remember that the teeth style are for different woods and types of cuts. You should normally have more than one saw. Don't use a soft wood toothed saw on a hardwood tree for instance.

>>924522
>>924516
>>924504
>>924505
>>924508
>>924510
>>924096
These are for wood working not tree felling/bucking. >>924124 & >>921995 are saws is for bucking and/or felling respectively.

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>>924482
No problem, man! I wish you the best of luck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_UFHuqM9ac

>this kills the bucksaw

>>925103
Keep trying bud.

>>924788
>stihl
>not husqvarna
absolutely disgusting

>>925316
This.

>>925316
you fuckers will argue over anything

>>925355
Did we forget we are on a Canadian cat stamp collecting website?

>>924788
Please tell me you tighten the chain before using it?
>>925316
>Stihl
>less vibrations
>less RPM which will help with the longevity of the saw
>less electronics = more reliable
That being said, Stihls are fuck ugly and the old Husqy saws are a billion times superior, most the XP's are inferior to Stihls, if you can, get a Husqy 357, go for it.

>>925362
yes
sorry
i won't error again

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>>925316
Stihl and Dolmar are the only worthy saws. I would never buy a Husqvarna

>>925377
yes that's a bit loose. That's a 064 I'm currently using but I'd like to get a ms461 or a Dolmar 7900 as the main saw.

>>925401
Dolmar is fucking junk.

>>923602
What the fuck are you trying to say?

>>925566
He said you smell like onions and your mother is a slag

>>925552
No Dolmar is top quality saws.

>>925552
No Dolmar is top quality saws. What's your experience with them?

>>925749
Having to fix the pieces of shit when they break down prematurely.

>>925749
That fucking grammar though.

Do you people actually do something with your tools or you just buy them and argue on the internet over which is hypothetically better?

>>927795
Arguing on the internet is still doing something.

>>925952
I know people who think either Stihl Husqvarna or Dolmar are junk because they've lost their nerves with a couple of "unrepairable" saws and they are pretty irrational. They are all good saw makers and you happened to have bad luck. Defective saws happen

>>927795
I work with chainsaws and my argument is based on my experience with them. I didn't argue that Husqvarna are necessarily bad, I just don't like how they handle.

>>927863
I work for a dealer my experience with dollar products is based on my first hand observations of hundreds if not thousands of saws. We sell primarily huskies, stihls and dolmar, we have a large shop and huskies have top sales of about 60 percent, 35 percent Stihls and 5% dolmar.

>>924096
another anon here but yeah if money was no issue whatsoever I'd get the first one here
https://www.fine-tools.com/kobiki.html

my dad's a cabinet maker so we have no shortage of fine german woodworking tools at home but I have a japanese dovetail saw and it utterly destroys its western counterparts. I mean they're just so utterly superior in the smoothness and ease of the cut it's stupid.

>>924538
Everything makes a difference, of course.

And the thickness of the blade certainly does make a difference in how quick and easily a blade can make a cut. The steel stock on a standard Japanese 'ryoba' saw is 0.5mm, with a 0.7mm kerf due to teeth set. It's paper thin because it doesn't have to be any thicker.

A standard Western carpentry saw is 1mm or more, and makes a kerf somewhat more than that. And because you have to convert a considerably larger amount of wood into sawdust, it takes more energy to use.

Again, they make these thicker because the saw blade has to provide its own rigidity because it's not being put under tension by the user while it's cutting. It's ass backwards. It's like trying to tow a 50000 lbs trailer by having the semi truck push it and wondering why the it jackknifes on you. Or trying to push rope through a hole and wondering why it bunches up. Why not just pull the rope through the hole instead?

The only drawback is that users unaccustomed to using Japanese saws instinctively put weight into the blade on the push stroke, causing the paper-thin blade to jam up and take damage. It's operator error.

Feel free to argue the merits of Western saws but please acknowledge that physics aren't on your side. Just deal with it.

>>928353
If pull cut is superior, why don't they use it in competition? Because even if you scaled it up it's not as fast, accurate or sturdy enough to take the abuse. For fine carpentry, a pull cut saw pattern is desirable. But here is a dirty little secret you faggot. Western coping saws are all pull stroke, and they did not simply copy it from the japs. Also nap saws are designed primarily for softwood. Where Europeans and North Americans have much more desirous hardwoods and softwoods, this requiring a pattern that engages the body to move the saw more fully.

>>928353
Push cuts are twice as fast because you can throw your weight in it. Please cry harder katanaboifag

>>928353
Pull cut has to be moved twice as many times and will bind much easier. Remember that first post? A crosscut saw, for cutting trees. A pull cut that size can not be used as efficiently, for limbing? sure. Gtfo you fucking faggot.

>>928360
My Dozuki saws have no trouble whatsoever cutting through seasoned walnut, rock maple, ash and even osage orange. I guess it's all a matter of not being a ham-fisted jackass when it comes to using tools.

And I care about your ooga booga V8 handsaw competitions about as much as Japanese planing competitions. Not much.

>>928362
that's because you aren't using it right. You're pressing down when you shouldn't and you aren't when you should. It's like riding a bike you see? When you develop some fine muscle control you'll get to join us at the adult's table someday. Just keep working at it, bro.

>>928367
PLEASE APPLY YOUR FAGGOT PULLCUT TOOTH PATTERN TO A FULL SIZE CROSSCUT SAW, GOOD LUCK CUTTING DOWN A HARDWOOD TREE BUD.

>>928367
Have you even seen someone use a crosscut saw bud? are you a faggot? yes

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Timber crosscut saws cut on both the push and pull stroke, look at OP's picture, you will see that it is a champion tooth pattern. The 2 teeth are set in different directions and are slightly higher than the rakers, the teeth score either side of the kerf and then the raker chisels up the noodle into the gullet. You will also notice the hole for the auxillary handle to be moved to the end of the saw.

I dont know why this clown is referencing jap saws in this thread, its like talking about tack hammers in a sledge hammer thread.

>>924482
Is that Hemlock
>>928402
I ain't backpacking THAT.

Silky Saw or Sven Saw for backpacking.

>>924096
Like the look of the Lee Valley, can you say how it compares to the Silky Katanaboy?

Looks similar, I am deciding for an ATV saw.

>>928443
ATV saw?

>>924096
Enjoy your pruning saws, topkek

>>928678
> not turning a quad into two dirt bikes for half the price

Come on man, a saw to carry on my quad to clear downed trail trees.

>>928722
Dude just get a decent axe don't be a weirdo. Why would you use a giant pruning saw to clear trail?
It takes forever to make the cuts, compared to an axe, and it gets dull and you have to sharpen them or change the blade. A flat file will restore an axe edge in seconds.

>>928731
6-8" trees fall over due to snowload on remote Forest Service roads and I don't want to carry a chainsaw.

I'm not chopping through them tree after tree.

Is that ok with you?

>>928781
you're making a big mistake m8

>>928781
You could chop through a tree that size faster than you could cut with a Japanese pruning paw, not to mention the fact it's going to get easily pinched being a retarded thin pruning saw for ninja fags

>>928781

A 5lb axe will piss through that stuff and your on an ATV so no weight worries. You will need an axe to chop the saw out if it pinches anyway

just buy a good quality axe for fucks sake

>>928803
>>928801
>>928731
>>928787

Are any of you familiar with Silky Saws, like at all?

There is a link itt.

>>928829
Quite.

>>928847
>provides no context
Oh, well in that case you sound legit. You should be a writer.

>>928731
These days the weirdos are all the fatass neckbeards carrying axes for no discernible reason when a Silky would serve them much better for actual wood cutting.

>>928877
how would a silky serve better, seriously?

>>928883
Because it cuts wood into neat pieces rather than turn nice hardwoods into splinters and firewood.

>>928883
>silent and covert
>highly efficient

Get one. FAR better than Bahco. Would not consider Bahco over Silky in ANY class.

>chop
>echo
>chop
>echo

Might as well run through the forest screaming, "kill me now!".

>>928890
>>928892
you people are really weird

>crosscut saw thread
>axe fags say axe

Now I know why the axe vanity contaiment threads max out right after the fish fag and knife fag containment threads.

>fucking axe fags
>every problem is an axe problem

>>928895
Lol.

Worse than hammock fags!

>b..buht muh hammock, muh axe n muh tarp/cloak/katana/plague mask/chips/bear laser

Fucking axe fags.

>b..bhur muh $200 wettingme/darhling axe

It's about the right tool for the job. Giant pruning saws are autistic as are people who go clearing trails with them instead of using an axe,

>>928781
Go under, go over or go around you fucking faggot

>>928890
"Nice pieces" for your decorative table ornaments on your pay per play camp site in an upscale rv park where only tear drop trailers and air streams frolic?

>>928960
>4U
My forest has digfert reqs.

Oh wait, you forest ride or ride keyboard?

>>928979
What fucking English is this?

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>>928979
wtf did he just say

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>>928678
>>928722
>>928731

just mount this fucker on your atv

>>928443
this is only about 10" cutting blade length but I have one of these and it'd probably work well for your purposes as long as its long enough. The handle length is a bit more manageable as well and actually pretty comfortable if you're going at it for a while. If you get it you will see how you can actually make a pretty easy sheath for it out of some harder plastic sheets

http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=45742&cat=1,42884,42924