Where should I Move?

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Washington is nice. stay away from eastern wa though, its nothing but high desert and rocks

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>>903835
>not AZ

Dude, wtf?

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>>903841
yoll be fucked when Ranier's had it with your shit

>red states can fuck off
>majority are good states

Probably wyoming.

>>903835
Fuck off, we're full.

>>903852
>I still can't share because I had shitty parents

Deep down, they still hate you.

You better have a job or a skill that is in demand if you want to move to Idaho, Montana, or Wyoming.

>>903865
having sex with cattle and hogs doesn't exactly require a diploma friend

>>903865
I guess I'll cross those out.
>>903844
Too hot and desserty for my taste.
>>903852
Good thing you don't speak for an entire state faggot.

>>903873
>desserty

Good. Because you are an idiot.

>>903878
Forgive me oh wise one.

What's wrong with Virginia?

Eastern Virginia is tons of fishing.
Western Virginia is tons of hiking.
Southwest Virginia is tons of hunting.
Northern Virginia full of Muslims though but they're all sluts and wanna be niggers.
Jobs are good and housing is okay.

I moved here 3 years ago and have moved around. I really enjoy Williamsburg.

>>903868

Not a job...that's a labor of love.

>>903904
maybe not a job but it's in demand

> Idaho
> blue

Pick one.

Montana's full, sorry

>>903931
It isn't though. And most of our economy is from outsiders.

>>903881
VA is like living in hell. Its always humid and doesn't stop raining for months on ends sometimes...

As for OPee
Ive always wanted to give Idaho a go.

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>>903835
Check out Pennsylvania. Pittsburgh is a nice smaller city with jobs and not too far away from some very nice State and National Forests. Whole place is basically mountainous. Laurel Mountains are nearby too. Plus we have the Appalachian Trail going through here.
I'd describe PA as mountainous. I wouldn't compare it to The Rockies or anything, but it's damn beautiful here.

Depends on what you like to do, but Bellingham in Washington is nice. The San Juans, North Cascades, Mt Baker, Vancouver, Squamish, Seattle, etc etc etc are all within 2 hours or so. 80k people or so, but the smaller towns around it are decent as well.

>>903942
The fuck are you talking about. Maybe rains once or twice a month here.

>>903835
>move to blue state
>for /out/
Enjoy not being able to go /out/ because of the laws.
>is that an alcohol stove in your pack
>you're going to jail buddy

>>903945
PA fag here, all the hiking on the east half of the state is rock garden after rock garden. Go read some of the AT through hikers books, when they get to PA all they do is bitch about rocks. Western part of the state is better but just about everything is posted no trespassing.sure you got the big state and federal parks but everything else is a super limited.

>>903952
Shh bro, we like to keep this place on the down low. Enough foreigners already.

>>903959
What sort of delusional shit are you talking about?

>>903933
Outsider tourism, not people moving here.

>>903873
Every state you designated blue is at least 50% desert. Northern AZ is beautiful, forested country.

>>903835
Fuck off

You eliminate Kentucky and Texas but leave Ohio?

Just because you live in the midwests dusty asscrack doesn't mean everywhere else sucks just cause its close by.

>>905054
triggered

>>903835
Look into Vermont, I just moved here with my GF, Burlington proper isn't cheap but it has a decent amount of stores, we live just outside it with a bunch of land and taxes aren't too bad once you get away from downtown, jobs aren't super great but they pay well enough.

>Where should I Move?
Somewhere that's not Montana

>>903853
>Gibsmedat

>>903865
Fuck off we're full

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>>903835
>no Arkansas

Eat shit and die.

>>903835
Flagstaff and Sedona Az.

not to far from the major Navajo rez and you're surrounded by mountains and forest

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Up until last year I'd say come on up to Alaska. Depending on what your experience and career are there's still plenty of jobs to be had.

Pic related was my day. Cross country skiing at the Mendenhall Glacier.

>>903835
Yeah Kansas sucks, I live here too. However you sound like a faggot with your red state talk so get fucked m8.

>>903942
Don't be ignorant. VA isn't a god tier /out/ state but its very good nonetheless

>>903844

Unless his whole family votes red and pro gun he can fuck off.

Colorado is pretty great. We've got mountains, high desert, regular desert, plains, and everything in between.

Generally if you can leave your house, drive/bike for an hour and end up in a place where if you die your remains will never, ever be found...that's when you've found yourself a pretty decent /out/ place to live.

Colorado or Maine

I'd go Pennsylvania just cause I'm in new Jersey

>>903848
Eh we already had st Helens give it a go and we're all still here. At least we're not fucking portland with a god damn active volcano in the middle of the city

>>906964
Alaska is cool but has the same problem with Canada. There's realistically two cities you can move to of you want a halfway decent job market. Juneau is the only place in AK I could imagine living because anchorage is urban as fuck but unless you want to comercial fish or work for the fish/wildlife dept you're shit out of luck

>>903835
move to colowashintoregon

Living in Maine currently. There's some beautiful shit for sure: Acadia, Katahdin and western especially. Problem is all that shit is 5+ hours away from population centers and once you get out of the southern parts holy shit the people fucking suck.

>>903873
Prescott and flagsstaff you fucking goon

>>906216
Arkansas is shit

This post is bad and you should feel bad....


Tennessee is better

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>WA

>>903878
How's living around flagstaff? Really considering it after college

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I live on the New Hampshire seacoast. I live in a small "city" I'm an hour from the mountains and twenty minutes from the ocean. There is no sales tax in New Hampshire. Next door to Maine a plus, down side is you close to Massachusetts which is the equivalent to Mordor. People from Mass. can suck a big fat throbbing dick. Fuck Massachusetts.
The picture is related, I took this in an ancient volcano in New Hampshire.

OP confirmed for soft ass hipster.

Move to seattle, faggot.

>>908410

>300 other obnoxious hikers not pictured

If you're gonna post WA, post the real thing.

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>>908569
okay

>>903835
Where are you at, OP? I live in KS and would love to go walk the corn field with you. Perfect time of year for being /out/ right now.

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>anything but AZ

>>908567
Fuck you liberals get out

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>>903835
Stay away from Florida. We already have enough faggots here and don't need any more.

>>909292
who the hell is that beauty

>>909296
His name is Dozer.

>>903945
Yeah, I'm from PA and I would say its pretty good here if you like the outdoors. Tons of mountains and forests around the state, it was called Penn's Woods for a reason

>>903835
I admit I quit reading halfway through, but only because the majority of these responses are as uneducated and tiresome as most the people in KS. Former Kansan here. Always hated the lack of good /out/ locations. Lived in Eastern Washington for a while, loved it. Prefer Western Washington in 3/4 of the year and the SW for the winter. Appalachia is gorgeous and I was going to say, though the people weren't the greatest, but people pretty much leave something to be desired everywhere.

>>903835
South Dakota's pretty nice if you stay around the hills. The Native Americans aren't bad, as they can't live to far from liquor and the native whites are nice when you leave the hills.

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>>903835
Humboldt county in California will blow your mind with the out activities and affordability. They are isolated from the rest of California, is relatively poor/under serviced, and might as well be another state along with the rest of those northern counties.

Oregon, we've got beaches, mountains, valleys, desert, forest. Everything but sun, but yhe otheres you show are just as shitty weatherwise. Just don't support the left. Most cities on or by i5 are dem, everywhere else is repo except bend.

From salem I can drive an hour, hour n a half at most to those things above

>>904125
What tourism?
>look another tree. Oh wow a pile of rocks/coal

Maybe you mean west coast tourists driving though to Yellowstone?

South Carolina is pretty good if you wanna pig hunt on public land. Seen more pigs this year than deer. plus cost of living is pretty cheap.

>>908453
Fucking awesome, if you have a good paying job.

Housing is high.

>>903835
Arizona is honestly fucking awesome to live in if you can afford something like Flagstaff or Sedona. The mountains are amazing. I live in Tucson area (don't recommend) and we basically have our own Mt Fuji.

Otherwise, I suggest Oregon. I used to live in Grants Pass, beautiful area. We were about 2 hours from the coast, surrounded in red woods. There's a lot of awesome hiking areas.

Oregon>Washington

>>908453
Fucking worth it. Even driving through gets me wet

>>910008
My family used to visit this area when I was a child specifically for the coast and hiking.

>>903942
I moved to norfolk from texas. The only good thing is it's actually cold right now. Fucking high rises apparently don't have normal AC and the state actually mandates a day that they switch the radiator systems water from cold to hot so no AC after mid october, even if it's still like 90 and humid. The rain hasn't bothered me too much but that's only because I haven't found any places to go /out/ yet.

Where can I go that isn't a 3+ hour drive from Norfolk? Apparently, a patch of grass about half the size of a football field actually can get called a park here.

>>903881

What's near Norfolk for hiking and potentially camping? What's less than a 3 hour drive away, I don't get enough time off to drive half way across the state to go outside.

Ohio should be red. Just sayin'

>>905124
Yes. We're full.

>>908460
New Ipswitch here

>>903835
Montana dude. It might be cold but it's not as bad as Kansas. I moved here for the same reason (I hated Kansas), 3 months in, it's not bad.

>>903835

Ohio is ok, just go to Columbus or the surrounding countries. Stay away from Cleveland, Dayton. Both are poverty ghettos. Cincinnati is ok but live in Northern Kentucky.

Columbus and Cincy are the only two regions that are growing with jobs. Everyone is going to both places. Everywhere Else, Ohio is shit, unless you like living on land.

>>903835
You do know, all the rural areas of the country are red, right? Even if your state is blue, everything outside of the major cities are red 90℅ of the time.

>>912867
The colors aren't political.

>>907960
I live just outside Portland and I have no clue what you're talking about. Hood is dead, r-right?

>>903835
You need to consider Pennsylvania. You can live in/around Pittsburgh, Philly, or Harrisburg and only be 45 minutes away from some serious /out/. You can also go more central PA where /out/ is right around the corner and rent an apartment in rural towns for $400 a month.

>>903841
>eastern wa though, its nothing but high desert and rocks
This sounds like fucking paradise to me.

>>908460

Wife and I are looking to escape CT. We want to go to VT and head up near the Canadian boarder, but sea access is cool.

Fuck mass

>>915297
Some of it is neat, but most of it is steppe/desertish flatland or farms, not nearly as interesting as western

>>907167
If they don't vote red, they can fuck off anyway.

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I relocated from Northern VA to Albuquerque about a year ago. I enjoy advantages of living in a large city and within an hour I can be hiking the Sandias or out shooting in the desert. If this state had more water, it'd be very hard to beat.

Pros:
>Dry air
>Sunshine
>Generally mild temperatures, go up on the mountain for colder temps and snow
>Very few mosquitos, haven't seen any ticks
>No poison ivy, can walk around shitty thorny plants instead of through them
>Popular trails aren't very crowded and it's easy to find places where you won't see anybody
>Lots of public land where you're free to camp, shoot, hunt, use offroad vehicles
>Very little traffic, high speed limits, very very few traffic cops
>Low cost of living
>Cool bars, good food, laid back people, college girls
>Jemez mountains and the Sandia Crest highway offer excellent twisties if you like motorcycles

Cons:
>High crime rate
>High drug usage
>High DUI rate
>High winds/dust during part of the year
>Monsoon season, gets humid late July-mid September
>Very few options for watersports, though I've heard there's decent fishing in the Jemez
>Feels like living on an island, most flights require connections, Denver and Phoenix are 6-7 hours away driving

That said, I have not been a victim of a crime or felt like I was in imminent danger of becoming one. I've experienced far more harassment in DC, Philly, and Richmond. The city is very divided economically so it's easy to steer clear of dangerous areas.

Also spent a couple years living about 50 minutes west of Philadelphia. Very pretty area, loved the hills, dense forest, streams and rivers. That was also very enjoyable compared to the DC area, but nothing like the freedom of New Mexico.

Pic related, took this yesterday. A cold front moved in. It was mid 40s and partly cloudy in the city, but low 20s, windy, and
about 6 inches of snow on the mountain. That cliff usually provides a view of the city but I couldn't see 20 feet.

>>915735
any fuckhueg spiders?

>>903835
You know as much as I make fun of Wisconsin and Michigan as a Minnesotan, you're really limiting you're options by ruling them out, especially if you like forests. You also shouldn't rule out all of Apallachia, especially west Virginia.

>>915743
Haven't seen many spiders while out, no walking through webs even. I've only really seen bugs underneath rocks.

I've found a few black widows inside my house. Kinda sketchy, but it beats 6 months of mosquito plague each year. There are also tons of cockroaches in this city and some giant crickets during summer.

>>915748
Michigander here. I love Minnesota, even though the vikings can suck a cock. But we can still bond over mutual hate of the packers?

>>903835
>Not wanting to live with blacks
Smart man

Utah here, I'd say go for Idaho. There's no deserts, but it's very outdoor friendly and it's not particularly expensive unless you're next to Spokane. It doesn't have the cool culture of Oregon or Washington, but you also can afford a house without being a tech monkey.

Utah is cool too, but liquor laws are gay here. Colorado is like lefty Utah, but it's pricy as shit.

Wyoming and Montana are full

>>903835
I live in Salem, Oregon. It is the Capitol. An hour out east or west will yield many hiking opportunities

>>915280

This idiot's talking about Mt. Tabor, but he got too high watching Volcano or something and thinks it's active.

After living in Texas for a few months I wonder how anyone could not love it. I've been to 37 states and fall in love with it here more every day

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>>908460
Does anyone even like Massachushits? I'm planning on leaving this shithole but I have yet to see anyone actually LIKE this place. Everyone here is a liberal who can't see having pride of their own state. It's like Massachusetts is their parents house, they don't quite care about it, let it rot, and then move off to commiefornia. OP don't step foot on this god forsaken soil.

>>918182
The three handguns in the middle aren't even legal tho because of muh over 10 rounds.

>>903904
Lel

>>907960
mt tabor - active volcano
are you fucking retarded or troll

>>903848
Seattle will be fine. Tacoma's fucked by lahars though. Which is better than it deserves.

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Why the fuck are you ruling out California, you ignoramus. The Sierra Nevada? Go live in Mammoth on the Sierra's eastern slopes. You can get vert real quick. The 395 gives you access to the entirety of the range, there's hot springs, there's climbing, there's world-class snowsport.

>>903835
>red states can fuck off
Colorado, you liberal faggot

Dude, definitely don't move to MN.

The winters here suck and it is flat. Everybody is horrible. You'd be WAY better off in Montana or Wyoming.

>Hates Kansas
>Wants to live in a great /out/ location
>Wants it to be in Yankeecuck territory though
Could you be more of a faggot?
Anyway, Wyoming, Montana, Orgeon(fuck Washington state)

>>919452
California would be amazing, if it weren't for the Californians.

>>903835
political bullshit like this should result in a ban. I'm not from the states, but this just pisses me off. You are going to have a tough time in life OP if you really think like that.

>>919705
>>919587
>>919455
He clearly meant the states marked red and blue on his map. :)

>>919712
hahahahahahaha. you guys got problems

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>>919720
they were baited and they weren't even being baited. what a bunch of summerchildren.

>>912770
Cincy is not a bad choice. My gf is from Northern KY and whenever we visit her family we go visit the red river gorge for some rock climbing.

>>909237
Other KSfag here, in the 913

Not OP but I r a geologist what state is cool. I am of think move north more cold cause fuk 75 christmas weather ya dig. I want snow and shit tree explode for 2 freeze ice and whatnot. what state best? think am i of sum good 1 like montana been there done that got t-shirt but would go back. also wyoming and Idaho, both seem much cheaper than here in God's country Texas 4 land and wilder sparser peoples and shit but like 2 roam u know. But job wise? I am of geology and geophysics 4 years but procrastinate ou cause fuck computer labs and shit I want 2 wilderness.


wat do

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>>919886
How many fucking beers did you drink before posting?

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STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM COLORADO!

>>909296
That's Punky Brewster.

>>903835
Northern arizona is absolutely beautiful. Just don't go south of prescott. You will only find meth.

>>903835
What do you do for a living?

By your criteria, Montana and Wyoming are probably out. Idaho is also probably not what you're looking for. All of them have relatively high cost-of-living : income ratios. They look cheap on paper, but once you get there and are making half of what you would somewhere else reality sets in.

Outside of a few select fields, those are hard places to work for a living.

Eastern Oregon and Washington also aren't what you're looking for. The western sides of those states are better.

Colorado, probably

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>>903835
OP, I Gotta agree. the south sucks. Head out to Colorado and the area around Denver is great. Outdoorsman's paradise a couple hours west into the mountians. Pic related, took it on a hike from my backyard.

>>921787
Hey, stfu k?

Move to alaska faggot

Scratch PA for now. Don't bring your SWPL shit here

>>921835
There are so many faggots moving into Colorado. It's starting to be like a more outdoorsy California.

>>915286
Stay the eff out of Pittsburgh! All we need is for Pittsburgh to become the next fucking Portland where all the hipsters get tired of the consequences of their actions and move somewhere better to ruin like locusts. REEEEE!

>>922001
The mountains are fuckin cash though

>>903835
here i'll help you with New Jersey.
Cons:
>garbage every
>i mean garbage fucking everywhere
>in the middle of the woods
>near schools
>in parks
>yeah dude that's a good place to dump your roofing materials
>right on the rinky dink hiking trail connected to the ghetto park
Pros:
>don't come to new jersey

>>922008
you have absolutely nothing to worry about
pittsburg should burn to the ground
what a shithole

>>922095
When I was in nj I did a little bit of outdoors stuff and honestly it wasn't that bad. Once you leave the vicinity of newark and other nasty areas. There are some nice areas but I can see where your coming from because there was literally shit floating the streams. Pollution finds its way from the city to middle of the woods.

>>922103
near my house there's this river. the water that puddles in the mud banks on the river gets this metallic silver coating on it. it looks kinda like mercury.
some parts of camden give me cancer just from breathing. i haven't breathed right since i was a kid. i need to leave soon.

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>>903835
Northern Arizona is GOAT

>>908410
weren't you in a homeless thread too?

>>919449
lol

>>903852
found the Idaho poster

>>917403
>no deserts
anon all of southern Idaho is a desert and I live in the shit. Only a thirty minute drive from the good stuff though so its not all bad

>>903853
t. liberal refugee cumguzzler

Please stay away from nevada and arizona

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>Preferably not in the south. Blue states are ones i'm considering and red states are ones that can fuck off.

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> Preferably not in the south. Blue states are ones i'm considering and red states are ones that can fuck off.

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>>922770
>>922771

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This focus on US state boundaries is truly the mark of a sperglord. If the OP actually had the where-with-all to relocate anywhere other than Mom's basement he'd know that.

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>>922784
that's the blue state version
pic related for red states

>>903917
I see you didn't read the post.

>>912867
So many people that didn't read.

Maine resident here. If you live near Portland, you have access to a great city and a lot of wilderness. If you go up north, it gets wild quick. Beautiful coast, expansive northern wilderness, and plenty of civilization in the south. Lots of small town butchers will pay you for your hunting catch, so you can supply up at local stores and live innawoods full time if you'd like. Winters are a bitch though.

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>>922784

>>917702
Oh shut the fuck up you faggot. More than likely youre a fat fucking nerd so anyone moving there to go /out/ wont be stealing any of your precious basement air.

>>919597
Too right. There has to be a haven in Cali for people who arent complete fucks though right?

>>922954
Where in ME? I lived in Minot for a few years and loved it. That was before all the yuppy road-bikers moved in.

>>903835
Michigan, Wisconsin, Oregon, Very North Cali, Washington

>>903974
This. Fuck the canucks who make it impossible to find parking at walmart.

>>903952
I worked on my grandma's farm in Everson every summer from when I was 13 until I was 20. Great mountain biking, snowboarding, and weather in general. Lake Bellingham is great for water skiing or just swimming, and the San Juan islands are, in my opinion, the most beautiful place to sail in the world.

>>903835
>Looking for a place that has /out/ things like forests and mountains. Preferably not in the south
Not Maine or Minnesota. They're importing somalis, who are niggers that breed like cockroaches.

Montana and Idaho are great. North Dakota is nice if you stay away from injun infested areas.

Washington is ass, not nearly as pretty landscape wise as Montana/Idaho in my opinion.

>>915310
>CT
>Wants to move to Vermont
FUCK OFF

Alaska, its practically dindu free because how cold it is. White paradise.

>>903835
I lived in Hays for three years on a 1300 acre farm that I leased from an old man. I fucking loved it and it was so isolated.

>>903881
Tim Kaine. That is what is wrong with Virginia.

>>905054
KY is awesome if you bring your own money. There is none to be made here.

>>917403
fuck Kootenai County. Nice area, but they didn't like Trump. Go for Boundary County if you choose north Idaho.

>>918182
Fuck Mitt Romney and Assachushits.

>>908460
>NH
>equivalent to Mordor
>Fuck Massachusetts.
NH is a great state physically but I've found the people are kind of off-putting. Irony is the worst ones are the transplants and flat landers. Once you're in the mtns the attitudes seem much better.
>>915310
>CT
>Fuck mass
I'm guessing you don't like it when people honk at you and your blue plate because you're on vacation and think it's perfectly acceptable to stop in the middle of a busy road to point out something.
>>918182
>anyone even like Massachushits?
yep. Other than the fact that it's Dem as all hell here. Coast, kettle ponds, deep woods, rivers, hills. People have no clue how /out/ MA is. If I want/need more seclusion NH, VT, or ME are a few hours away. I grew up outside Worcestor, have lived in Southbridge (shithole), Belchertown, Chesterfield, Northampton, and Cape so I've pretty much seen the best and worst it has to offer.

>>922001
90% of them are moving there from CA. Enjoy

>>918182
I like the land. Besides that, it's run by retards, corrupt, full of commies, and full of retards.
-t. Massivejewshit

>>903835
Oregon, Washington and California are nice. Standard of living is expensive though.

>>910045
ayy salembro

I moved here maybe 6 months ago and don't know how to find anywhere to go hammock camping for a weekend. Am I spergtastic? Any tips on where to find good, less traveled trails?

>>922101
glad you think that ;)

>>903835

I strongly urge you to consider Texas. It's a fucking huge state with fucking huge variety. If you want something, you can find it in Texas.

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>>924708
>It's a fucking huge state

Why, oh why, does it matter how big it is?
I live in a smaller state but an hour's drive is
the same no matter which state you live in.
There are no border control check points.
In the US we don't even have to slow down
when crossing into another state. Your
community won't shun you for traveling a
few miles on the weekend. So why do these
autistic threads keep popping up?

>>908394
>what are the Ozarks and surrounding forests

Michigan is excellent for outdoor opportunity, but we don't take likely to faggots like OP, so you're right please don't come here

>>903835
Minnesota is pretty nice. It's flat like Iowa in the south and west but up north but Duluth has some really nice hiking and fishing. I was thinking of living there and there were some nice houses in proctor (a suburb more or less of Duluth) for 70k

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>>924868

While Texas is huge geographically, it's also got the widest variety of biomes and biodiversity in the US within relatively close driving distance because of its position on the continent.

And the cost of living is moderate.

Sure, one could travel between multiple states for all their hunting/fishing, but that'd require multiple licenses too.

And in Texas, the terrain and speed limit often allows you to get much further in an hour than you could in another state.

>>926608
This doesn't make any sense. By logic of rating a state out of 10, there would have to be a 10, which is the best. "0 being the worst, 10 being _____"

Truly disappointed.

>>926608
>NY a 3.5 despite having the most national park in the united states by itself

Apparently /out/ is retarded

>>903873
Fuck off OP northern AZ doesn't want you.

>>926885
Oh wow you can pay $30 to hike on some groomed trails, camp on pavement for another $50, all with hundreds of people around you?! That sounds like paradise!

>>923605
my nigga

>>903881
>housing
Except in northern VA. Stay out of NOVA/DC, super expensive and really crowded.
otherwise though, yeah VA is a pretty underrated /out/ state. Isn't like 1/4 of the Appalachian trail in VA too?

>>910008
woah woah woah
I don't need any more faggots hugging my hugeass trees. It is really rural though anon and everyone you meet will smoke weed if your into that.
There is a lot of out but also a lot of hippies, and I wouldn't consider living affordable.
Biggest city, Eureka, has an insane crime rate per capita <25k pop. and you cannot find a decent place to rent under $800

>>926665
>there is no perfect

Montana.
also Maine.

>>926608
>California
>8
eggsplain

>>903835
Idaho

>>923264
No, it's not. Plenty of them by the military bases and Fairbanks. Not to mention black and brown gang activity and I'm sure the redskins are putting their fair share in too.

why not missouri? wouldn't have to go far and you also have easy access to arkansas as well. ozarks are the tits

>>928889
Alaska is overrated to be honest plus everyone is a fucking alcoholic with suicide thoughts.

>>915735
My nigga I've been to Santa Fe comfy as fuck if you ask me.

>>903835
Oregon

>>903835
Whats the best place to buy land with waterfront/big reservoirs of underground water, decent forestry for hunting, but can be cleared easily for development for animals, farms and people?