>hunting an animal is murder >deforestation is real

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>>879364
>deforestation isn't real
you're right about the other two being preposterous but holy shit apart from the ones in north america every major forest is decreasing in size and density because of human activity

>>879370
That has been debunked by many researchers. The actual rate of deforestation globally is less than a tenth of percent, when you factor in that most timber is being cleared for it's uses and then replanted, not cleared for human development. Deforestation, in the true sense, means the conversion of forest to some other permanent or semi-permanent land use.

>>879377
[citation needed]

>>879387
[not from a liberal agenda blog site but a scientific study by Americans David Skole of University of New Hampshire and Compton Tucker of NASA so you will argue against it]

>>879389
Link the article.

>>879389
>>879397
I found an article by DJ Skole where he showed the deforestation rate in 1994 to be 1.7%. (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0034425796001502) If deforestation rates haven't been increasing since 1994 (which they have), using the function u=u(n-1)*0.983 gives us a remaining forest coverage of 69% in 2016, relative to 1994. At this rate. by 2100 there will be only 16% left!

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>>879364
>just keeping their numbers in check

>>879377
Thats an absurdly simplistic view of ecology.

>>879415
Kill snek.

Not bowfin.

>>879364
fish can feel pain but not in any way that's meaningful to me or anyone sensible

>>879467
They don't "feel pain"
They are aware that things are awry, but nothing like what we call pain. They are evolutionarily very far from us.

>>879467
fish engage in nociception.

they don't have pain, most animals don't.
>>879495
fish aren't aware.

>>879364
>Hunting is murder
Yes, it is, it is also a requirement for survival. Eating plants is also murder but people dont feel bad about it because plants aren't cute.

>Deforestation is real
Indeed it is.

>Fish can feel pain
Pain is relative, I had an ex that I didn't get along with too well and I was abusive towards her and she loved it. One time I we were having a fight and I broke her finger, so she tackled me, straddled my stomach, and I realized she was wetter than a river, which freaked me out, so I grabbed the finger I had just broke and yanked it, she yelped, and it felt like she peed on me a bit. I don't think she can comprehend the idea of pain, but she is an example of pain being relative.

I do miss her sometimes, though. i'm a naturally violent person, and being with her was almost perfect, we'd fight, sometimes bones would break, then we'd fuck like wild animals. Sure it was an unhealthy relationship, but goddamn if it was some of the best fun i've ever had while with a woman I hated.

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>>879501

>>879501
Matt?

>>879501

>Deforestation is real

Not according to kikepedia

>The forest resources of the United States have remained relatively constant through the 20th century.[3]

>>879559
Very real outside the states.

>>879608
It's not in Canada or Russia either, so that covers the three largest countries in the world. It's just another made up issue to scam fools

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>>879501

>>879634
>what are rainforests

>>879666
If they are rainforests they haven't been cut down my Mongoloid friend

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>>879501
>so I grabbed the finger I had just broke and yanked it, she yelped, and it felt like she peed on me a bit.

>>879377
> What is old growth
> What are ecosystems

>>879688
>>If they are rainforests they haven't been cut down my Mongoloid friend
What?
You do know that there's extensive deforestation in the Amazon and rainforests in India?

>>879828
For agriculture. So what? Vegans gotta eat

>>879831
>Deforestation
>"so what"
>on out
Why are you even here.

>>879831
Actually most of the Amazon deforestation is being done to create grazing land for cattle

>>879752
>ecosystems
>deforestation
>pick one
deforestation is not the same as ecosystem change. while some some deforestation is in old growth, needing a mix of forest age is paramount to maintaining a good mix of species and habitat types.

>>879878
>>879831
>Implying deforestation for agriculture isn't a bad thing

>>879869
We have established there is no deforestation. Why are you spreading fear?

>>879364
> I can smell the CO2 build up
> with physical gold you will survive
> black lives matter

>>879752
> what is monoculture

>>879960
>we have established there is no deforestation
Sure, in developed countries. Rainforsts are still threatened.

>>880050
None of us live in India and Brazil so it's irrelevant

>>880173
>state of some of the largest and most biodiverse forests in the world is irrelevant

>>879364
All three are true yes. What of it?

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>>879501

>>879465
Bowfins have a native range within the US, not throughout the US. In places they have been introduced they are an ecological disaster.

>>879960
Read
>>879408
Enjoy your massive carbon release due to deforestation I guess. Also, rainforests produce 20% of our oxygen.

>>879986
>>>/pol/

>>880206
If there is a carbon release that will just stimulate more plant growth which when combined with the population die off will solve your imaginary problem.

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>>880243
>carbon bring released from the 2nd most productive ecosystem on the planet, while the area of this system decreases surely will be buffered 100% by other systems

Climate change, including extreme weather events, will cause billions of damage. Diseases will extend their range. But deforestation is a myth and even if it isn't it's no big deal. Fucking imbecile.

>>880340
europe has been gaining forests rather than losing them, but they're green-deserts, forests that lack any biodiversity.

it's just birch, beech and english ivy with some dryopteris species, that is all.

europe has lost 60% of it's biodiversity, densely populated countries like the netherlands lost up to 85%.

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>>880346
average forest here.

it's just commercially planted pines and a single species of dryopteris.

forests that lack biodiversity are useless, you might as well grow lawns instead.

>>880340
Climate change is a proven hoax my naïve friend

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>>880348
another one.

>wow would you just look at all of that nothing.

only 3% if what you'll find in the forests is native here.

don't be like the netherlands.

>>880348

>forests that lack biodiversity

Yes the vibrant diversity makes us stronger. Like your cities

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>>880353
we don't have any immigrants outside of the city.

>>880348
Fern city. What state are you in? I thought New Hampshire was bad but at least we have SOME diversity.

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>>880360
it's the netherlands.

if it weren't for our obsession with gardens and horticulture all of our wildlife would be extinct already.

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also wondering why no one has posted this yet.

>>880364
So what can we do about the fern menace? Obviously the dutch forests have been harvested for centuries before you got here. Where did it all go so wrong? Globalism trade? Lack of culling invasive species?

I want our woods up here in NH to be better but it seems that people are more concerned with letting muslims into our state than preserving our nature. For fuck's sake, our moose population is at a record low and the bears aren't doing much better.

>>880369
>Where did it all go so wrong?
ignorance, people don't know how bad our biodiversity has gotten because nature still looks 'green' due to invasive species filling up the holes.

we've got two political parties that care about the environment, the problem is that the only thing they appear to do is whine about rhinos being shot in africa and feral cats being shot here, they don't actually give a shit about our biodiversity they just want fluffy kittens and muh unique africon memefauna.

that and wheelchair tourism.

>>880350
Source, fucktard.

>>880354

>we don't have any immigrants outside of the city.

But 90% of y'all do live in the city and the rest within a short train ride

https://youtu.be/JY_4Ffp0pPQ?t=85

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>>879364
>>879377
>>879495
>>879518
>>879634
>>879831
>>879895
>>879960
>>880173
>>880243
>>880350
>>880353
>>880353
>>880360
>>880369

>>880425
>He believes in global warming

Sad bro, do you even science?

>>880431
who cares, living in the city is shit anyway.

>>880435
Yes, I do believe in science, which is why I'm asking for sources.

>>879501
If killing an animal is murder then abortion is murder.
>living cells
>not self aware
>rendered dead

>>880467
>He gets his science from /out/ists

No wonder you are retarded

>>879364
Deforestation is fucking real, just not in the sense they are reporting it.
Personally speaking from Slovakia, after recent catastrophies in High Tatras where lot of trees were destroyed (pines) were massively replaced by spruces because they grow fast. But they dont fucking last shit, fucknup soil and are prone to be eaten by bugs. So not only tje forests got fucked, now we have soil so acidic that nothing want. to grow there. Ant this only happened because of some fuknuts who needed to look good on tv news so they would be reelected again. It is estimated that it will take more than 100 years till we will have some recovery.

>>880574
????
I don't get my science from them, I'm asking them to back up their claims.
>>880350 said climate change is a hoax, I asked for him to provide his source to back up his bullshit. >>880435 sys pretty much the same thing, again asked for them to back up their bullshit with a source.

>>880587
You believe in global warming because that was your indoctrination. Science has nothing to do with it.

Kek

http://www.climatedepot.com/2016/10/21/caught-on-tape-un-bans-skeptical-journalists-from-climate-summit-for-holding-views-not-particulary-helpful/

>>880747
They should be banned. They're contributing to stupidity.

>>880719
No, I believe in global warming because that's what numerous studies and data support. If you can provide multiple respectable sources that show similar results I'll disagree.

>>881001
>numerous studies and data support
Apparently the quantity of research is more valuable than quality

>respectable sources
You do not even understand what that means

>>881026
Okay, show me what you define as a respectable source and the all the data you have that disproves global warming.

>>880881
But then what is your excuse?

>>881059
Global warming is the claim, being skeptical requires no evidence. You're basically saying the equivalent of "prove god doesnt exist"

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>>881074
>You're basically saying the equivalent of "prove god doesnt exist"
... except there is literally 0 evidence for god's existence, in very stark contrast to global warming, or evolution. and god's existence isn't viewed as a scientific fact by the overwhelming majority of the scientific community

of course I know you're just a troll. or maybe you are genuinely retarded. *sigh*

>>879459
>>879752
Except that's literally the definition of deforestation.

>>881059
Why do you expect us to cure your delusions?

This explains why there has been no warming for 20 years and also why we need to massively increase fossil fuels consumption

http://www.express.co.uk/news/science/723481/Earth-ICE-AGE-big-freeze-solar-activity

>>879634
What the shit are they teaching you? Every year more and more previously forested lands are converted to monoculture, urbanized or lost to fire, disease and invasive species.

Granted much of this is only temporary, but recovery of pristine forests will take longer than the lifetimes of us or our children. In the mean time, species dependent on certain ecological niches will become extinct (so far irreversible), greenhouse gasses will accumulate, erosion will accelerate, forest resources will dwindle and our quality of life as /out/doorsmen will lesson.

How in the wild west do you think this is some kind of scam? What would anyone have to gain from claiming the world's forests are diminishing both in biodiversity and general size? That's a pretty retarded conspiracy. Why don't you go read up on native trees in your area? Then study succession and determine what a healthy forest in your zone should look like. After that, get the fuck out and tell me it's all hunky dory. That is, if you can find a wooded area amongst all the roads, fields and urban sprawl.

>>881174
>Not knowing that global warming causes ice ages

>>880747
The time for debate is over. If someone cuts your arm off you don't wait around and discuss if it has in fact been severed, you tie off that fucker. We're not going to let the peanut gallery of surplus chromosomes get in the way of saving our way of life.

>>881188
How does mass immigration into Europe and the Usa stop this?

>>881196
Wait, are we talking about deforestation or are you being another little shit from pol?

>>881201
How will mass immigration stop deforestation? You can't pretend to care about the environment when your other policies will surely destroy it

>>881228
Ok let me get this straight, you believe that I cannot care about deforestation because of immigration? What the actual fuck is wrong with you?

"Gee wiz I wish that those darn Syrians would stop interfering with my forest ecosystem management projects Bill"

"Yeah Doug, it's awful hard to focus on my work when I know some apolitical refugees are moving in somewhere.'

Do you realize it's local politics, unsavory contractors and dysfunctional natural resource practices which are actively causing deforestation?

Like really? Does your hatred for immigrants spill over into every part of your life? Is it possible for you to steal paint to huff anymore or has it become an all consuming thought?

>>881300
But there is no deforestation

>>881338
See >>881188
Explain yourself, or stfu

>>879364

all are real

none of them matter

>>881502
>none of them matter
>deforestation doesn't matter

I want everyone who doesn't have a degree that is at least tangential to environmental sciences to shut the fuck up and accept the facts laid down by those that actually know what the fuck they're talking about. And stop misinterpreting old data on a supposed 15 year global warming hiatus within a longer trend of warming. It does not mean what you think it means.

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>>881575
> deforestation
> everybody just shut up!

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>>879364
>fish can feel pain
no

>>881626
What does that even mean? Fuck off back to >>>/b/ if you can't hold a normal discussion.

>>880204
Absolutely.

They are treated like trash around here, even though they have been doing their thing here for millions of years.
Most of the sportfisherman hate them... god they are cool though.

>>879370
>South Americans, Africans, Asians
>Human

>>881892
>Australians
>Humans

>Fish can't feel pain
But studies have already been done senpai

http://www.hsi.org/assets/pdfs/hsi-fa-white-papers/fish_and_pain_perception.pdf

>>880346
yeah well this happens however many millions of years, regularly. Mass Extinction Events are nothing new to Earth, even if we are causing it that's pretty cool, but really species bottlenecks are, geologically speaking, routine.

>>882954
Yes you dumb fuck, and we could be one of those species.

>animals that don't convey pain don't feel it
What do you think pain is? It's just nociception. They may not be intelligent enough to guard wounds or communicate it but they still feel the need to escape when they're jabbed or shocked. Why the fuck wouldn't you give any being the benefit of the doubt when considering whether or not you're going to minimize pain inflicted? I'm not saying not to fish but god damnit accept that you're hurting something.

>>879501
>Eating plants is also murder but people dont feel bad about it because plants aren't cute.

Speak for yourself. I got a murderous deer eating up my stuff that's about to get put on trial very soon.

>>879377
All forests are not equal. Converting an ecosystem to a pine plantation that might as well be a cornfield

>>879559
Says nothing about the quality of the forests however. Much of that is timber plantations and second growth forest on marginal soils. It might not be "Deforesting" in the states but definitely degrading. Real as fuck in the tropics though

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>Earths median temperature has rose one degree since the industrial revolution

OH NO IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD. QUICK LET'S PASS A BUNCH OF REGULATIONS THAT THREATEN OUR ECONOMIC STABILITY AND INVEST A BUNCH OF TAX DOLLARS INTO "GREEN" TECHNOLOGY THAT OBVIOUSLY ISN'T ADVANCED ENOUGH TO BE ECONOMICALLY EFFICIENT.

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>>879370
Not in Finland.

>>884582
>THREATEN OUR ECONOMIC STABILITY

OH NO IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD

Look. I've always been 'into' nature and the outdoors and animals and birdwatching and all that jazz. I'm sympathetic to the idea that urban man, in his alienation from the natural environment, is less healthy than his forebears. I get sad at the thought of all that habitat loss and species extinction.
But what really is at the core of these greenie talking points other than blind sentiment and futile escapism? What is the core moral arguments behind these imperitives?
Human beings have exploited the earth for their own collective benefit for aeons. in the past several centuries, we whites have developed technology that allows us to accelerate this exploitation exponentially. Now even the teeming millions of non-whites have this technology, and the aspiration for the kind of lifestyle it enables.
In the face of human greed/desire, what chance have noble sentiments of a vanished era?

>>880512
Most animals are self aware though. Just because they are not sapient doesn't mean they are not sentient.

>>879501
>Eating plants is also murder but people dont feel bad about it because plants aren't cute.
Or maybe because plants do not have a central nervous system or self-awareness.

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>>879501

>>880369
>Where did it all go so wrong
building ships requires a lot of wood, also for some reason the dutchman has an obsession with changing his environment like a god, sadly this leads to most land out of cities being flat grasslands full of cows or sheep. also population density is way too high, we were one of the first proggressive nations with our religious freedom in the 16th century, which caused a lot of kikes to move here from spain and france and they did good business in amsterdam and rotterdam and as some of you might know, jews have no regard for the environment.

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>>879377
The problem is that you're replacing diverse and centuries-old forests with either young trees with are tiny and will need decades to grow, or fast growing shit which decreases species diversity and makes the forest more susceptible to diseases and shit.
The area which forests occupy might not change much, but it's quality drops. It's a real problem here in Poland.

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>>885485
>The livelihood of a nation is less important than a negligible shift in temperature

Tree huggers are either the most retarded or self-destructive demographic on the planet

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>>887463
>Change the temperature """""slightly""""""
>Mother nature goes batshit crazy with weather and slaps our shit, which costs millions or more to fix.
What do, Anon?

>>887477
Wake up because I am obviously having some unrealistic nightmare with no basis in reality???

>>879377
Yeah, burning down rainforest Systems that needed millenia to Form and replacing them with palmoil plantations isn't actually deforesting. It's just trees being replaced with trees.

>>887478
https://www.epa.gov/climate-change-science/understanding-link-between-climate-change-and-extreme-weather

>>887495
>epa

Yeah like I am going to trust the organization that barred fracking companies from disposing of their "waste" water and essentially forcing them to pump it back into the earth causing the rise in earth quakes we see today. They don't even have to common decency to claim responsibility and instead blame the companies they made do it in the first place.

>>887498
I choose an American source, since the site explains it so that even the average American simpleton like you could understand it.

>>887478
How so?
Hurricans require warm water to form. if you raise temperature, you will raise temperature of oceans, too.
Bam, now hurricanes can form more easily AND in more places. They might also be stronger, but I'm not sure about that one.

>>887498
How were they forcing them? At gunpoint? Or do those companies just don't give a fuck about anything but profit and chose the next cheapest form of disposal?

they say a squirrel use to be able to travel from new York to Georgia without touching the ground

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>>879501
Found the nigger

>>879370
It’s increasing in Vietnam.

>>879501
If you're not a nigger/beaner, then I can say it's kind of hot.

>>879467
>>879495
They're just a more primitive organism. Everything is basically just a machine, some of them are so simplistic as to be recognised as such but things like humans are complicated enough machines that we have things like consciousness and a whole of constructs surrounding our societies and cultures. They still do get distressed if you consider it from that level of complexity, it's just too far removed from human stress to really count to anyone.

>>887825
Cause they had no forest after the Vietnam war

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>>879364
>fish don't feel pain
This is something your parents tell you when you're six years old so you don't feel bad when they decapitate Nemo. Obviously fish feel pain or they'd all be dead from other fish eating them from the ass upwards and they wouldn't know it until half their midsection was gone.

>>889137
Those are two very different things. The frontal lobe is what puts human a step above everything else that crawls, flys, or swims but the portion of your brain that processes pain, the brain stem, has been largely untouched for millions of years.

>>889222
came here to say the sames, fish need pain sensors just for basic survival reasons

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>>887477
Try trillions. No really that's what it will cost pick up every US coastal city and move to wherever the new coast will be. That's also what it will cost to fight the mass desertification that will slowly eat away at the south upwards, and tha money it will take to wage the wars necessary to procure drinkable water for the entire population of the US.
>>887478
Pretending inconvientient (see what I did there) realities are false doesn't make them go away

>>885485
This. Our world is more important to some digits that we applied a small range of values to.