National Forests and Parks Targeted.

File: 4L_RQko1HTJ.jpg (15KB, 215x234px) Image search: [Google]

15KB, 215x234px

>reason no. 74323 to never vote republican

>>815999
its sad people would let that happen just because they hate minorities and gays

this shit is so absolutely fucking assbackward retarded i don't even understand how it could be tolerated, much less embraces, by anything but a vast minoroty of fringe lunatics.

the 2016 GeeOhPee is the worst political party america has ever produced

>>816019
sometimes I am a one issue voter
and that issue is the preservation of our parklands

I hate faggots and love the outdoors

wat do

File: shepard.jpg (507KB, 2048x1550px) Image search: [Google]

507KB, 2048x1550px

>>816114

>>815999
Thinkprogress is generally an unreliable source, given to lots of over the top claims.

The republican party isn't going to do shit, but the fact is the Federal government really should turn most of its land holdings over to the states because they could administer them far better. The Feds are also given to bullying...see the Bundy thing and the AK hovercraft case.

It isn't like the Feds don't allow commercial use of their properties anyway. I've worked loads of logging crews on Federal land.

>>816146
>the Bundy thing
oh, you mean that thing where a rancher refused to pay millions of dollars in taxes so the government tried to seize his property in lieu of payment?

it's a-fucking-mazing they didn't bring in the national guard and mow some motherfuckers down. They showed great restraint. If anyone got bullied it was the feds trying to do their jerb.

File: 1463900980303.jpg (30KB, 600x800px) Image search: [Google]

30KB, 600x800px

>>816133
obscure/10
kek'd

>>816133
Thanks I'll look into it

File: snacks.jpg (40KB, 433x550px) Image search: [Google]

40KB, 433x550px

>>816154
>it's a-fucking-mazing they didn't bring in the national guard and mow some motherfuckers down.

They learned from Ruby Ridge and Waco to try and diffuse the situations before they go in guns a-blazing. Really, unless there's a hostage situation, feds can bide their time for the right moment to arrest people with little-to-no bloodshed.

>>816146
States would most likely sell the land handed back to them by the feds.

>>815999
It's not really surprising, not in the slightest. There are probably fewer conservatives that aren't aspiring worldeaters than there are with liberals, although I can appreciate the honesty in the positions of the former. The conservatives that don't simply see the remaining wildlands as nothing more than lumber factories & meat corrals should try to support land defense groups if they can, even if their ideologies differ.

>>815999
I'm guessing you didn't actually read the platform but just the "Thinkprogress" article. It's not what they want at all you dumb fucking libtard.

>>816233
this
fucking hippies and "muh wilderness"

National forests are already logged.

>>815999
>ThinkProgress
You really want to post those slanderous lies from George Soros here? Your not from /pol/

https://themarshallreport.wordpress.com/2016/01/31/trump-state-park-and-political-land-games-it-all-boils-down-to-responsible-stewardship/

You're a pants-on-head retard, officially.

>>815999
>Greetings from /pol/.
Disregarded, hidden. Go back to your containment board and stay go.

>>816207
An organization made a mistake and learned from it. If only more agencies did that.

>>816240

>Trump cares about stewardship

let's just forget everything he's done so far

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Dangerous_Game_(2014_film)

>>815999
And this is news to who exactly?

>>815999
This has been a thing since the first year parks were created. There's always been politicians wanting to mine everything out and pave it over in the name of progress, money, and growth. Alss, they've already allowed logging into many state and national parks. Even my favorite local state park was COMPLETELY CLEAR CUT about 5 years ago and replanted with some shitty non-native pine species. The shallow river that ran through it had all the wildlife cooked out because it was once shaded and is still out in the blazing sun where water temps are too hot to allow anything to live in them. There were old growth trees that took 5 people to circle around holding hands. Now those trees are part of some shitty wood and drywall house as OSB and plywood.

The sad fact is, it will happen eventually, unless the human race suffers some apocalypse. If that doesn't happen the only parks left in the world will be bracketed with cement like Central Park in NYC is.

>>816409

Sucks, bro. Sorry about the river.

If you're looking to help make a change, please support easy access to family planning, especially in developing countries. This way we can stabalize the population numbers to better match our resources.

File: Canada surpasses Brazil as global leader in deforestation.jpg (99KB, 735x430px) Image search: [Google]

99KB, 735x430px

>>816432
That will never happen. If resources exist and are known to exist, someone somewhere will come and take them. No exceptions. Population growth isn't even needed for this to occur.

>>816448
>A FUCKING LEA...
Wait
>NO MORE FUCKING LEAVES

we have forests? news to me.

>>816467
Although forest is a term of common parlance, there is no universally recognised precise definition, with more than 800 definitions of forest used around the world.[4] Although a forest is usually defined by the presence of trees, under many definitions an area completely lacking trees may still be considered a forest if it grew trees in the past, will grow trees in the future,[9] or was legally designated as a forest regardless of vegetation type.[10][11]

>thinkprogress

I hope you don't actually consider this a real source of news on any partisan issue.

>>816776
Me >>816409 here. I've no clue what you are talking about. What does Hillary have to do with any of this?

>>816211
This. So much this. I wouldn't trust even the most blue states with the preservation of federal lands. I mean the democratic stronghold that is Chicago sold its damn parking meters for crying out loud.

>>816409
What park was this? Cutting old growth in a park in 2011, damn...

>>816146
The states literally can't afford to manage all that land so it will get sold off to private parties. Utah is selling off its public land left and right to private interests.

The Federal Government does plenty of things wrong but it's actually pretty good at managing land.

>>816146
They wouldn't manage them better, they would sell them...aka New Mexico

Trump wants to make more national parks tho...

File: image.jpg (4MB, 3264x2448px) Image search: [Google]

4MB, 3264x2448px

I live in Alaska and right now our forests are being mined and logged. You know what else the forest service does? They sell access to tourist companies and you can't even go on a home without hearing helicopters. It used to be that they would stick to the touristy trails but now they are everywhere because "our tour is off the beaten path". One of our senators had put in for some money to rebuild a local trail, it was hundreds of thousands of dollars, and the forest service blew through the money and got about 1/64 of it done.

File: image.jpg (4MB, 3264x2448px) Image search: [Google]

4MB, 3264x2448px

>>816926
*go on a hike

The locals finished the trail the best they could. I'd like to know where all the money went.

File: image.jpg (3MB, 3264x2448px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 3264x2448px

>>816928
What's funny is the concrete bridge doesn't even have a functioning steam under it, water does flow after a heavy rain. Stop blaming political parties, they all do it.

>>815999

>ITT
>Asspained demofags making a mountain out of a molehill.

It's not like they're wanting to strip mine Yosemite.

Get a grip.

>>816956
>

>>816207
Yeah if they did Waco or RR again they could get something like the OKCB again

>>816267
>>816207
>the ATF or FBI
>learning
Ahahahaha
It's entirely due to >>817020
Since the OKCB and similar bombings by similar people are all but impossible to prevent it spooked them but good. They would still be burning 12 year old cult members alive and posing in front of the crispy corpses today if it weren't for the OKCB. Nobody but fringe white people care about RR or Waco.

I lived in Arizona for about 17 years. Every year or so there was a renewed public effort to mine the Grand Canyon for uranium. I remember one incident in particular, where the entrepreneurs trying to push this through were arguing on a radio talk show about why they desperately needed to do this. Their only real reason: because it would be so profitable.

Screwing over the planet isn't a matter of being Republican or Democrat or any particular party. It's all about greed and short-term thinking. Everyone is vulnerable to that kind of self-destructive stupidity.

>>816928
>>816929
>pics

Looks like something I made when I was 14yo. It lasted all of like 4-5 years before you couldn't dare to walk across it due to rot.

>>817158
>Screwing over the planet isn't a matter of being Republican or Democrat or any particular party. It's all about greed and short-term thinking. Everyone is vulnerable to that kind of self-destructive stupidity.

10,000% this.

There are no political sides when it comes to greed and exploitation.

>>817260
Go back to bed, Doyle Simons.

File: image.jpg (4MB, 3264x2448px) Image search: [Google]

4MB, 3264x2448px

>>817257
It was made by retired people. Unlike the forest service who hired a helicopter they had to walk all the stuff in and they used downed trees. Old people are like that. Once they get something in there head they generally finish it. I heard that the lumber part was scraps from a deck one of them built. Probably carried them one at a time and for 10 miles that must have taken some time.

>>815999
>thinkprogress.org
lmao

>>817454
That's exactly what I did when I was 14yo.

Also, they probably used an ATV. "Old people", are like that.

File: IMG_4074.jpg (5MB, 3264x2448px) Image search: [Google]

5MB, 3264x2448px

>>817471
>they probably used an ATV.
nope

>>816244
lol he posts a thinkprogress article and this guy still has an asthma attack

I mean the reality is both parties are spineless and principleless. They would sell the lands as long as it satisfy their sponsors and constituents. Democrats might be more keen to restrict weapon ownership and enact pants on head retarded wildlife regulation. Republicans might be more keen to privatization and exploitation of natural resources. Neither party is a friend to the /out/doorsman.

>>816476
Forest - A barren wasteland of cities and fields where trees once grew.

save the forets

>>816064
Those "minorities" are quickly becoming the majority and when they do they wont show us the same kindness we gave them.

>>818246
>kindness

Hoo boy

There needs to be some logging on public lands. Right now there is so much fuel in the average forest that when a fire starts, there's no way to control it before it burns hundreds or many thousands of acres. The density of trees and undergrowth is far above what is natural because of over protection.

I'm not saying to clearcut everything, but some modest thinning would result in healthier forests, as well as the recovery of wildlife populations. Wildlife is another issue. Deer and elk are threatened because overzealous fire prevention has resulted in meadow-lands being overgrown by trees. This makes it difficult for them to find forage.

>>820265
Forest service doesn't have the manpower to manage the land properly. They're not filling positions as people retire or leave. A forest I worked at, one of the offices used to have 20 people, now they only have 3. Their budget gets slashed, so there's no money to do anything and no one to hire to do the work, they see no money getting used, so the budget gets slashed again.

It's depressing.

>>820298
Oh and the money that gets left over goes to firefighting. Sure the red cards are making a shit ton of money fighting fires, but they wouldn't be so bad if we had the forresters to prevent the fires in the first place.

>>820319
You do know you have to be 18 to post on 4chan, right?

File: GPinchot.jpg (1023KB, 2189x2860px) Image search: [Google]

1023KB, 2189x2860px

>Its 2016 and you fuckers still haven't realized he was right

>Love guns
>Love outdoors

Fuck this shit

>>816114
Faggots can be avoided by going to the great outdoors. Preserve the land.

>>815999
Trees, timber, wood,... its a renewable resource.
I don't see a problem with some harvesting and of course continual replanting on a limited scale in some places as long as its reasonably regulated by the Forest service and not those retards at the EPA.
A good managed forestry program is good for the environment.

>>816133
dude that's not funny

it called conservation yall libcucks, if one plot of land is preserved pristinely then another plot will have to be eploited simple geomoerty.

>>820674
>I don't see a problem with some harvesting and of course continual replanting on a limited scale

the trees don't grow back fast enough to sustain an eco system. when they replant after a mining operation there's nothing that can live there.

>>820881
Holys smokes bud you need to lay off the environmental propaganda. When it comes to strip mining yeah its hard for trees to reestablish in the area where it was mined however that area isn't 10 square miles unless you're an Aussie. Typical subsurface mining affects the landscape largely through acid mine drainage which poisons the soil by way of the water washing through and picking up free ions. That is far more harmful than the more localized effect of the strip mine. Also both do displace wildlife etc.

>>816154
Yes, that is the one.

The one where the Federal government shouldn't even have the power to own any of that land in the first place, nor levy a use fee and call it a tax. Show me where in the constitution the power to do either of those is conferred in the Federal government.

>>816211
>>816871
>>816899
>>816901
The states would have the money to admin the land if the Feds didn't take it in the first place. Any program that divests the Federal government of its non-essential land holdings would also have to include eliminating the tax revenue associated with maintaining them, leaving it in the hands of the taxpayers. The state could then levy tax to cover it. States are ALWAYS more cost effective at conducting business then the Feds.

This is always the problem with reigning in government spending. People refuse to take the risk they'll have to give up their favorite toy even if it means someone else has to get fucked over for it. What one man receives without working for, another must work for without receiving. This is the case with federally owned land the same as it is with everything else and is true even if you cloak your self absorption in anti-corporatism.

>>820967
so i'm still right

>>820980
No. The ecosystem is slightly stressed not obliterated like you're describing. Once mining ceases primary colonizers return and the forestation cycle begins again. A forests life cycle is measured in decades and centuries not 5-10 years.

File: images.duckduckgo.com.jpg (22KB, 500x375px) Image search: [Google]

22KB, 500x375px

>they finally made me vote for crooked hillary clinton

File: images.duckduckgo.com.jpg (1MB, 2122x1415px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 2122x1415px

>>821093

File: images.duckduckgo.com.jpg (19KB, 320x214px) Image search: [Google]

19KB, 320x214px

>>821094

>>820969
>Show me where in the constitution the power to do either of those is conferred in the Federal government.

Property clause, which the Supreme Court has ruled gives Congress the authority over federal property and has described the power to legislate under this clause as "without limitation."

You Bundy cocksuckers are hilarious and continuously wrong.

File: images.duckduckgo.com.jpg (4KB, 300x150px) Image search: [Google]

4KB, 300x150px

>>821095

>>820969
Gonna need some sources on those claims.

>>821096
I'm not that guy but it was meant for things like military bases and post offices. Not something like the entire fucking state of Nevada.

>>821110
That is not how it's been interpreted by the Supreme Court which has the last say unless Congress creates an amendment.

Ranchers would actually be worse off if the land were under state or private ownership because the grazing fees would go up anywhere from 5 to 20 times what the BLM charges, and if it was sold or given to the ranchers directly they'd go bankrupt trying to maintain the land themselves because cattle ranching in places in like Nevada and Utah is stupidly expensive and the government basically keeps the ranchers in business by giving them cheap access to large tracks of grazing land.

The reality of the situation is that most cattle ranchers in the western states have an amicable if not great relationship with the BLM, the Bundys are in the minority.

Either way, Cliven got to graze his cattle on land he doesn't own for free for twenty years, he got a hell of a deal and the Feds probably would have let it go but he started stirring up shit and threatened to murder people.

>>816067
>the 2016 GeeOhPee is the worst political party america has ever produced

Certainly in recent history as I don't know what chicanery was done a century ago.

Hopefully the systems in place will protect us from ourselves if we have a trump presidency.

> these filenames
Don't do this to me op

>>820874
Welcome to 4chan, enjoy your stay.

>>817262
>There are no political sides when it comes to greed and exploitation.

Except that it's easier to do under republitard control.
The Koch brothers are a good example.

>>817142
>OKCB
I get Oklahoma council for the blind. Pretty sure that's not what you're referring to so help an anon out pls.

>>822281
All he had to do is pass it through Congress bundled into something else

>>821119
I hate that butthurt faggot. He was just being a greedy cheat and nothing else. Fuck him and fuck the feds for getting cucked for decades. It sets a dangerous precedent and should have been taken care of within a few years.

>>816956
>It's not like they're wanting to strip mine Yosemite.
Don't give them any ideas

>>822321
That's nothing new unfortunately.

Oh look, the cock brothers have a hand in some of this. My hunch earlier was right.

File: image.jpg (720KB, 1000x767px) Image search: [Google]

720KB, 1000x767px

>>816233
>>818246
>>816234
>>820877
>>816956

File: 1469246724106.jpg (54KB, 800x555px) Image search: [Google]

54KB, 800x555px

>>816019
> implying massive national debt, race b8ing, corruption unseen in American history, The removal and restriction of constitutional rights are a better alternative
Both parties suck, our founding fathers knew that power begets corruption which is why we need to keep our politicians responsible for their actions and their power and range of influence limited.

File: 1459018916229.jpg (542KB, 1280x1912px) Image search: [Google]

542KB, 1280x1912px

>>816064
Please read a few books and check your statistics before repeating your political ignorance.

>>816114
Left leaning faggots like to pretend they are /out/ but when it comes down to brass tax libertarians and conservatives are the ones who fight hardest for wildlife preservation. The annual revenue donated by conservatives to protect national forests dwarf anything the dems can muster

File: 1458506662323.jpg (43KB, 618x635px) Image search: [Google]

43KB, 618x635px

>>816244
>"triggered" the post
Dismissing someone because they believe differently than you without even discussing or debating makes you literally just as bad as a tumblarite - so if anyone needs to leave its you.

>>816154
>Bundy thing
>be rancher
>have cows
>cows eat grass
>live near a bunch of grass literally no one uses
>let cows eat grass
>grass grows back
>let cows eat more grass
>Big Government pitches a fit cuz "muh grass"
>tell feds "kick rocks" and "not paying for grass"
>standoff over unused grass cuz "tax"

Yeah? Maybe the feds should have nuked fields and then stripmined it all. Nuke all farmers nao! I wish they would have sent in UN troops to "keep the peace" for sure.

>it's
>fucking
>grass

>>823177
Which is why our budgets keep getting cut and nothing is getting done. Hiring for those National Parks and Forest jobs are at all time low. PhD's are going after masters level jobs and masters students are robbing bachelors of their jobs in turn.

It's pretty dire

>>823191
>Ranching
>In a Fucking desert

That's the problem. Those grasslands have to be carefully managed or you get shit like the dust bowl. It's not like out east where they actually get rain.

>>816244

'containment board' is such a stupid term

>left
>right

All political parties are shit and want to fuck everything they can over.

If you believe any party isn't out for themselves then you are a moron.

File: 1467830143953.jpg (51KB, 600x574px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 600x574px

>>823254
>teh grass his cows et causeded dem dustbowels
>this grass is "managed"

Bought and sold. Where to sign up?

>>823191
>its just grass
lol, the ignorance is so satisfying

>>815999
That makes me pretty pissed off

Didn't read the thread or the link as I already know it's full of clueless retards and bad sources.

Meanwhile in real life, the current administration has been selling lots of public land to oil companies. They switched the live auctions over to unannounced online auctions to avoid protesting.

http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/news/press_releases/2016/keep-it-in-the-ground-07-25-2016.html

If you think either party cares about public land you're a complete idiot.

>>820985
well i must not be the same guy you were talking to all along because i never said obliterated you spaz. just that it doesn't allow much regrouth. planting tiny ass trees is a half ass attempt and displaces animals.

>>822287
>Welcome to 4chan, enjoy your stay.

dude i know this is 4chan and i should man up but it hits home

>>823274
/pol/ spotted

File: 1322531108494.png (265KB, 334x393px) Image search: [Google]

265KB, 334x393px

>>823191
> he doesn't know tragedy of the commons
> he doesn't understand basic ecology

>>823274
Found the angry /pol/tard
>>823411
I've had some hit close to home too but I accept this place for what it is: the trashcan of the internet.

>>823412
>>823421

With that logic /out/ is containment for wannabe outdoorsy manchildren who are afraid to actually experience the wilderness.

You can say stupid shit like that about literally any board.

Go back to your 'containment board' for retards, /b/, and leave everyone else to daydream about going outside in peace.

>>815999
>Grand ol' party wants to log your forests and mine out your mountains.
>How does this make you feel?
i prefer that to the elitist shit in place now with the current administration.

Conservatism and extreme liberalism are mental diseases
Left of center masterrace

Stay outta muh whitetanks and superstitions big guvment

>>815999
>Greetings from /pol/.

Did the Trumpeteers drive you off the board for questioning the GOP platform? I swear, those guys are more annoying then even the Swarmfags.

>>816133
>>816186
>>820874
So what's the joke?

>>828060
I think it has more to do with just being sick of the election

Do you guys research? The Bundy thing the Fed turned his grazing rights land and many others into a protected wildlife endangered species land. No more grazing allowed the Fed forced out the ranchers and his neighbor's took the government buy outs of their grazing rights. I suppose he could have kept paying on those grazing fees for land he was no longer allowed to use for cattle. Think you want to acess your public land around Vegas think again the desert is fenced off wildlife refuge.

File: bundymapwithranchkeyed[1].jpg (846KB, 838x1312px) Image search: [Google]

846KB, 838x1312px

>>828110
>Do you guys research?

Do you?

The grazing rules were altered to better manage for the desert tortoise, which tends to lose in competition to cattle. Cattle were not banned on the allotment, but the number of cattle was reduced to 150 head, which Bundy failed to comply with. This in turn caused the government to cancel his permit completely in 1994 and close the allotment to grazing. Not only that, but he went outside the original allotment boundaries into new territory. A wildlife refuge was never designated in the area surrounding the Bundy Ranch, the management practices were simply altered to better serve the tortoise and use was still allowed, but under certain guidelines. Access and the permit would still be there IF Bundy actually paid his grazing fees.

On this map, the green square is the parcel of land that is owned by Bundy, the red is the original allotment, and the black is new land that was trespassed on.

In addition, a refuge designation does not mean that use completely stops either. It is just a special designation that guides management practices which are outlined in the National Wildlife Refuge System Improvement Act. There is a lot of legalese, but the important part is that refuges should be managed for ‘‘compatible wildlife-dependent recreational uses involving hunting, fishing, wildlife observation and photography, and environmental education and interpretation.’’

>>821096
You sound like a bitch.

File: 1440617017652.gif (3MB, 480x270px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 480x270px

I'm just going to remind everyone that changing the regulatory power of the federal government or transferring federal land to state entities has been a part of the GOP platform for decades.

Normally the platform will call for inefficiencies or abuses of federal land to be stamped out either by institutional reorganization or by transfer to a state government. There is nothing new under the sun, and it would be politically impossible to "sell off" national parkland.

The Tongass Nat'l Forest, for example, the largest in the Nat'l Forest system in both total acreage and old growth acreage, is routinely logged by private companies UNDER CONTRACT from the federal government, and yet nobody gives a flying fuck, and every year more old growth stands are logged. Ironically, private logging in many locations in the Tongass would actually be less viable under private or state ownership, as the US Forest Service has lost over one billion dollars in the business of timber sales in the Tongass since 1980, and it seems likely that without this inadvertent "subsidy", commercial logging in the forest would be restricted to only the most welcoming terrain. States don't have the budget to throw money into this pit, and private entities by their existence will only try to make money, which is impractical in this area of the state.

The main focus of this agenda is to reduce funding deficits in public services like the NFS/NPS, usually by offering more logging/mineral contracts, or by eliminating public subsidies for resource extraction to "maintain" regional industry, as has been done in the Tongass.

I feel like it's just shill bait when people scream "THE REPUBLICANS ARE GOING TO BUILD CONDOS IN YOSEMITE!!!!111"

>>828678
You sound butt hurt.

>>816154
>>816146
>Bundy thing

"God told me to take up arms against my government but he forgot to tell me I would need snacks and foot warmers"

>>828671
The government needed to protect a tortoise they seemed fine moving all the tortoise off the blm land they used to build solar farms on around Vegas then designating huge parcels to wildlife refuge. Do you have private land or a mining claim or grazing rights inside one of these areas. Oh too bad the government took it through eminant domain. Wait but first they need to make it look like they didn't. Lets see well just put restrictions on the lessee aka ranchers limiting the number of cows until they can no longer make money. Then they will be forced to sell or abandon the rights. Then we have a place to put all those endangered species we move off other more profitable public land. Ask the ranchers and miners and cabin owners in the Sierras how it is working with the Fed. I am not advocating Bundy but he was screwed over by the process of the government wanting the rights to their land back. Where does it stop how much land will be restricted from public use and for what purpose. I like to go out but have seen many areas closed by the same process. Sure wilderness areas are great but it was better when I could drive down that dirt road or snowmobile into the back country or ride a Mt bike. Now I fight for parking at the one designated trail head preparing for a 3 day hike. Or I loose acess cometely because the trailhead to the wilderness was on private land and the government didn't have an easement to their own land they made wilderness.

>>828842
>cabin owners in the Sierras how it is working with the Fed

??

>>828941Lets start with cabin and land owmers, lets say your great grand pappy staked some free land in the Sierras for a summer cabin then patented the land so he is the owner. The only acess to the cabin was a 4x4 trail through the wilderness. Then one day the land around the cabin becomes wilderness area along with the 4x4 road your grand pappy built and maintained. Well guess what if he didn't go to every forest meeting and have money for lawyers to get a cherry picked easement he can no longer acess his cabin. How is he supposed to hike 20 miles from the edge of the new wilderness area where nothing with wheels is allowed. Also now that cabin is stuck in the 1800's no chainsaws no wheel barrows no bicycles. If he was smart rich and lucky enough to get the easement for a vehicle good luck getting permition to maintain it. Endless environmental impact reports new rules and regulations. Now suppose he had a cabin on his mining claim which he didn't patent but paid the mineral assessment fee maybe he lived in that cabin till the 70-90's when he was kicked out forced off the claim by blm or forest service because the rules changed and now you cannot live on your working mining claim. Prolly because your not allowed to mine any more.

http://www.desertusa.com/desert-people/walter-bickel.html

>>828941
Oh ya don't get me started on Surprise canyon got a cabin at Panamint hope you like hiking on a old 4x4 road you cannot drive on anymore. There are endless stories of closure. Now let's talk about your cabin on forest service leasse if it wasn't taken and bulldozed in the Angeles national forest because cannot have people living on land other people want to recreate on. Oh what's that you want to live full time in the woods in your cabin on forest service lease too bad you cannot and you need proof of another residence to keep that lease. Now that the reassessment of your leasse payment has been raised to reflect current property values of land you don't own enjoy your new $600 dollars a month payment. How did you like that 99 year transferable lease oh that's gone down to 20 year. Ya I know it wasn't a guaranteed 99 years but there was no limit like now. They make new rules to inact change with the primary goal of getting everyone out of their forest, Blm land public. I hope no one has that Out dream of living in the woods it's getting harder to do every year unless your rich enough to move way away from the population and buy lots and lots of land with all the water mineral deeded acess no restrictions.

>>828941
It's possible I misunderstood your question by "working with the Fed" I didn't mean in conjunction, collision with. I meant working with their requirements new laws and rules. If you own land within or ajacent to public land be prepared to fight for your personal property rights you assumed were protected by law.
see also Groom lake mine.

>>815999
Relieved the W was the last Republican president the USA will ever have

Government cabins,


http://www.cabinlivingmag.com/diy-advice/property-finance/cabins-on-national-forest-land/

>>816237
This

And I'm fine with it. They log it somewhat responsibly what I've seen. Its the reason there are roads throughout national forest. It also helps pay for fire prevention and firefighting. National parks on the other hand aren't logged, for the most part, to my knowledge. National forest are designed to be used responsibly by man, whereas national parks are to be left as is and preserved. It's a compromise really.

There's a documentary by Ken Burns on the national parks on Amazon Prime I would recommend all of you watch. It goes into detail how they started as well as how they have evolved over the years.

>>829076
>>829008
>Cabin on federal land

Sorry you literally didn't own the land.

If a couple thousand people lose their land in the sake of preservation of National parks and forests fine by me

>>820527
I don't understand why there doesn't seem to be a strong contingency of right-wing environmentalists. Conservatism and conservation seem like compatible principles until the goddamn Koch brothers get involved

>>820985
I don't think anyone is acting like a single mine would be a problem if we still had copious amounts of high quality forest reserves around the world. The problem is that development has left more forest edge than interior, so the natural process of succession is stunted by erosion, seedbank depletion, water pollution, invasives, etc.

>>828678
Solid argument

>>828842
You seem to be conflating "leasing" and "permitting" with "owning," which is not the same. Eminent domain only applies to land not already owned by the government. How do you take back something that's already yours? Huge swaths of Nevada are owned by the US government, dating back to the formation of the state. It's even in the state's constitution. What you're talking about is the changing of the management of the land which the BLM has every right to do. US v Gardner established the right of the government to manage its lands like any other landowner. Furthermore, what we understand about land use changes and therefore management of said land also changes. "My daddy grazed his cattle on these lands" is not a good excuse.

Like I said before, no wildlife refuge was established. The last one established in Nevada is Stillwater in 1949. Wildlife refuges also do not restrict public access, that is against their mission and directive. Just because you can't tear it up in an off-road vehicle doesn't mean that you don't have access to it. ORV use isn't compatible with habitat protection and restoration because it tears the ground up and many ORV users won't stick to the trails like they're supposed to. A wilderness designation is separate from a refuge designation and also doesn't restrict public use, it simply restricts you to using your own two feet (or a horse) to get around.

>>829076
>So when the Forest Service tells us that the red paint that’s been on our cabin since we bought it is no longer an approved color, or that our neighbor has to shelve plans to enlarge his cabin beyond the allowed 1,200-square-foot footprint, or that at least two families must share a dock, we remind ourselves to look at the larger picture.

What a horrible life they live. They have to share a dock and can't build a McMansion on federal property? What a fucking outrage and injustice.

File: 1467338701107.jpg (133KB, 1710x840px) Image search: [Google]

133KB, 1710x840px

The federal government is the single largest source of pollution in the United States

Attacking the environment violates the NAP

Write in Ron Paul this November :^)

>>815999
Your source is likely left-wing.

>>815999
As long as they do it in a safe and sustainable fashion, I don't care. What bothers me is that the mined minerals will be exported, when they're needed most here in the States...

The Feds are Globalist puppets, and must be kept in check by We The People.

>>823173
Thank you.

>>816108
Your forefathers didn't have parklands. It might be time to think progressive again

>>829112
Hello communist

>>829162
They do. They're called hunters

>>829581
To an extent, all of my hunting buddies are certainly conscientious guys who care about the well-being of our ecosystems and are there for the nature just as much as the thrill. But I would be deluding myself if I acted like that a significant contingency of hunters aren't Bubba-tier rednecks who only care about getting drunk and putting a good rack on their wall. I would have to agree though that conservative sportsman are probably the closest to what I am talking about

>>829362
I am enjoying our conversation I do know the difference between owning and leasing land having owned and leased land within federal, state, county, city, and costal zoning. my examples are not entirely specific but a overall view of how new rules regulations, mission statements affect people who actually live and recreate out. Besides the new national mounments by bush 1 and Clinton and now Obama that affect my access and enjoyment directly. The problem I have is how the decisions are made sometimes there are public comment periods that no one seems to know about other times land is just closed in limbo due to threat of environmental law suit. currently dispered camping is becoming prohibited in my national forest because the new concessionaire feels it will take away profits from his parking permits and camping fees. Yep someone a cooperation already owns the rights to your national forests and Parks. So now that I cannot drive off into the desert because it's protected lands where do I park if I want to peak bag that mountain I see in the distance. They put up a new fence to protect the tortoise, guess I'll just leave my car on the side of the road and hop the fence. I'll hike down that dirt road I used to drive on.
I am obviously on the side of the coin where I feel people should be responsible for themselves and respectful of the land. Perhaps you are finishing a degree in political science with the hopes of a government job. Prolly a good idea sense that will become the only way to access that public land one day. You will get to drive down that Beach around all those snowy plover eggs only you can see. you will get to helicopter into the back country. you will get to drive those dirt roads patrolling for public missuse. Like I said gotta get all those people off public land it's cheaper and easier to manage then.

>>815999
>law doesnt mention parks or forests, says federal land
>think progress
Did you even bother trying?

>>823173
Where did that debt come from you twat?
Corruption unseen in American history? Turn off Fox news it's turning your brain into mush.

>>823177
>The annual revenue donated by conservatives to protect national forests dwarf anything the dems can muster
Interesting opinion. Complete bullshit - but interesting.

>>829801
Ummm this is objectively true if you consider that most hunters lean to the right.

>>829812
And that part of the revenue from oil/natural gas production taxes and railroad commission fees (in Texas) is earmarked for conservation/environmental efforts and almost 100% of the people in those industries vote Republican

>>829835
And hunters in some states actually request higher taxes on hunting items in order for the money to go to conservation. Hunters are single-handedly responsible for the current numbers of game animals in this country over the last hundred years. Half those species would've been extinct by now.

Oh, and need we mention the culling of 200 lions that was required after everyone cried on tv about cecil and trophy hunting took a hit? That's at very minimum a million bucks in the garbage for a poor african country.

>>829008
The new rules are exactly what I was asking about. Thank you for the comprehensive answer and the links; I'll try to read them tonight.

File: cormorant.jpg (776KB, 898x1163px) Image search: [Google]

776KB, 898x1163px

>>829655
(1/3)
>The problem I have is how the decisions are made sometimes there are public comment periods that no one seems to know about other times land is just closed in limbo due to threat of environmental law suit.

The management process is a huge pain for everyone involved. I've worked on a few management plans and the documents can reach into the hundreds of pages, can require tons of references, and take months or years to craft just the initial document. You describe the problem, the goals, options to solve it (one is always "do nothing"), a rubric on how each option should be evaluated, thresholds for action, predict the outcomes of each option, predict any impacts from those actions, describe how you would mitigate those impacts, then you have to choose one and talk about why. This whole thing gets sent off and comes back with a bunch of notes. You send it off again with changes till it gets the OK. Then it goes to public comment and you have to sift through pages and pages of letters and emails, which, depending on the issue can get very contentious. Distill all that down, refine the plan further, and send it off again. Then you can actually get to work and implement it, if nobody complains loud enough.

You also hope and pray for no lawsuits to come up, because that's a whole other monster and requires finding pages of documentation and having everything you've ever done questioned.

To give you an idea of the work put into these things, I once added information on tularemia to a park's integrated pest management plan (we had a sudden outbreak in the park) and ended up making the entire document about 10 pages longer. In the meantime, we were trying to keep visitors safe (despite their best efforts to contract the disease), three staffers were exposed and got sick, and the CDC showed up and started testing everyone's blood.

File: spadefoot toad.jpg (1MB, 1280x800px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1280x800px

>>829979
(2/4)

As for the public comment, any management plan changes are always announced on the organization's website, but they can be kind of hidden if you don't know where to look. The NPS has a centralized site for it: https://parkplanning.nps.gov/publicHome.cfm. If I remember correctly, the BLM does it by region and the Forest Service does it on a per forest basis and the announcement is typically located in their news section. I agree it isn't always easy to find or to figure out what is going on, but calling or emailing the park/forest offices is always an option. You might have a hard time getting a hold of someone during the field season (everyone wants to get outside as much as you do), but many people working in these places are passionate and very nice. They are actually there to help and don't mind fielding questions and chatting about it.

File: DSC_0427.jpg (1MB, 1280x848px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1280x848px

>>829981
(3/4)

> currently dispered camping is becoming prohibited in my national forest because the new concessionaire feels it will take away profits from his parking permits and camping fees. Yep someone a cooperation already owns the rights to your national forests and Parks.

What forest? The forest will sometimes close areas to dispersed sites due to overuse. In addition, there are dispersed camping rules, one is that you can't camp within a mile of an established campground or other improved site, which would include concessionaire sites. The reasons those are there, by the way, is because your forests and your parks are being drastically underfunded and understaffed. A lot of basic functions of the forest service and the NPS, for instance research or maintenance, is being done now through contract with universities (who can basically get their students to do it for free as an internship) or by the Job Corps and the Americorps (you pay for their food and gas basically). Sometimes, you don't even have the budget to hire anyone, so stuff doesn't get done. Everyone is being told to do the same amount of work with less financial support and man power. It's also currently a hassle to get people hired, especially qualified people, due to some issues with how veteran's preference works. Crafting the job opening takes 6 months alone (if you aren't using a general hiring description) and hiring can take another 3. You also can't directly convert seasonals to permanents, which means that any experience they gain working for you is lost. There are other issues, like how the Forest Service budget gets gobbled up by firefighting every year (60% last fiscal year) because wildfires aren't considered a natural catastrophe and therefore don't qualify for FEMA money or support.

File: northern long eared bat.jpg (973KB, 1725x1142px) Image search: [Google]

973KB, 1725x1142px

>>829983
(4/4)

>I am obviously on the side of the coin where I feel people should be responsible for themselves and respectful of the land. Perhaps you are finishing a degree in political science with the hopes of a government job. Prolly a good idea sense that will become the only way to access that public land one day. You will get to drive down that Beach around all those snowy plover eggs only you can see. you will get to helicopter into the back country. you will get to drive those dirt roads patrolling for public missuse. Like I said gotta get all those people off public land it's cheaper and easier to manage then.

I actually got a degree in wildlife management and have been working as a biologist for the feds the past few years doing various projects from sea level to the tops of mountains and everything in between. No poli-sci major is doing what I do. Having seen how the public interacts with land, I can tell you that many people aren't responsible for themselves and nor are they respectful. All the stories that come out of Yellowstone every year are a testament to that fact. You don't really hear about the more minor indiscretions of the public in other parks, but I've seen plenty of asinine and entitled behavior that people think is perfectly fine.

>>829812
>>829835
>>829854
Got any numbers versus what democratic voters contribute?

>>829835
>>829854
>Considering taxes on goods and money coming from resource extraction, which are not negotiable and must be paid, as a donation

Are you retarded?

>>823173
George Washington tried to kill parties but nobody listened, parties have always been for the lazy

>>822287
Oklahoma City Bombing

>>816108
Im torn because I'm a huge gun rights supporter but i also want to protect the environment.

File: hillary_trayvon_benghazi.jpg (60KB, 568x559px) Image search: [Google]

60KB, 568x559px

>>829800
Shillary voter

>>829997
It's easily googleable but it's in the billions yearly.

It's not unheard of for state land management to get 60-70% of it's funding from hunters and hunting related fees/taxes. Then you have them getting money from the feds which can't technically be called "democratic voter" contributions, so really after that you have left leaning conservation groups like the sierra club etc and they don't come close to what is made from hunters.

Also, groups like RMEF are directly responsible for game animals not being endangered at this point.

File: really.jpg (78KB, 496x315px) Image search: [Google]

78KB, 496x315px

>>830548
>Taxes are donations

>>830548
How many billions? How much more is it than democratic voters?

File: scruton.jpg (80KB, 600x450px) Image search: [Google]

80KB, 600x450px

>>829162

File: linkola.jpg (32KB, 194x300px) Image search: [Google]

32KB, 194x300px

>>829162

>Doesn't know about Pittman Robertson Act
>Doesn't know about Duck Stamp Tax

"Each year, nearly $200 million in hunters' federal excise taxes are distributed to State agencies to support wildlife management programs, the purchase of lands open to hunters, and hunter education and safety classes. Proceeds from the Federal Duck Stamp, a required purchase for migratory waterfowl hunters, have purchased more than five million acres of habitat for the refuge system (2005 statistics only); lands that support waterfowl and many other wildlife species, and are usually open to hunting. "

https://www.fws.gov/hunting/whatdo.html

If you buy guns and ammo, you're also buying habitat.

>>830560
Taxes that wouldn't otherwise be there if the hunters themselves lobbied for them absolutely are.

File: pound.jpg (27KB, 228x341px) Image search: [Google]

27KB, 228x341px

>>829162

"I have tried to write Paradise
Do not move
Let the wind speak.
that is paradise."

-Ezra Pound

>>816019
That is a democrat agenda anon. Do your reading.

>>815999
National Forests are meant for logging, that's what the forestry service does.They are not parks.

>>815999
>“Congress shall immediately pass universal legislation providing a timely and orderly mechanism requiring the federal government to convey certain federally controlled public lands to the states,” reads the adopted language. “We call upon all national and state leaders and representatives to exert their utmost power and influence to urge the transfer of those lands identified.”

I am in favor of this. The federal government should not own land.

File: 1459027781396.jpg (80KB, 500x483px) Image search: [Google]

80KB, 500x483px

>>830127
Yes and most people now are either lazy, complacent, and stupid, and/or greedy, materialistic, and sociopathic. This is what the last stage of empire looks like. I hope all you Anons have stockpiled enough food and weapons to survive what is coming.

Personally, I can't wait for the shooting to start. The gene pool could use some chlorine, and there are far too many useless cunts consuming air and other valuable resources.

After all of that, the fittest will emerge and repopulate.

> t. ubermensch who is ready

>>816067
> thinking that 2016 Dem party is any better
> not realizing that the two party system itself is a complete sham designed solely to allow a very small number of people to control the entire government

> not reading and then following hedgeless horseman's revolutionary call to arms

>>817519
This is very true on so many other issues as well. IMO, we all need to stop reinforcing these false left/right, Repub/Dem, even black/white and Christian/Islam, as they are all false paradigms. Where it's really at are the very small numbers of people ruling over all of us and controlling everything, and usually to the detriment of we the people and the environment. Start thinking in those terms, and you will start understanding what is really going on.

>it's a "le left wing democrats and le right wing republicans are the same" meme thread

The democrats are a sometimes semi competent centrist party with a mild lean to the right. The republicans are a moderate right party that is dumb. If you don't understand this everything you don't understand murrica politics.

File: 1467675949458.jpg (200KB, 800x533px) Image search: [Google]

200KB, 800x533px

>>830524
>Support gun rights
>go to national park
>Shoot loggers and any federal agents that inevitably try to hunt you down in the woods
>become a legend