Green berets get rescued but don't admit it

>The helicopter evacuation was not characterized as a rescue because the soldiers made it to the top of the mountain under their own power.

43 personal required to resolve this "incident" as it was called and it's not a rescue.

>>784741
Hooray for technicalities I guess?

>>784766
It's more hooray for hubris.

>>784741
Obvious mission complete and exfil you retard civvie.

>>784741
Please list all of the mountains you've summited and then walked back down.

>>784741
Well really, it's not incorrect to say the person 'scaled', 'climbed' or 'made it to the top of' the mountain.

>>784800
Not him dubster but what's your point? Mountaineering is exactly that, getting to the top and then making it back. If you can't do it, for whatever reason, you failed, period. No mountaineer should be embarrased for not making it. At least I don't know any. I've failed far many more times than I've made it to some peak, what's the problem with that?

>>784800
Doesn't matter.

How can you call yourself special ops and elite when you can't finish the climb? Their excuse of making it to the top doesn't count as a rescue bullshit is a cop out.

>>784815
>>784821
The point is that altitude sickness is pretty common for people who don't spend a lot of time up high, and is not at all correlated with physical fitness or ability to fight, which is what the green berets are about.

Sure, if you are part of a mountain unit you should get acclimated to high elevation. There is nothing that says these guys are or anything other than they were on a training mission. They had 2 guys out of X in the unit who caught altitude sickness, so they summited and called for an airlift. No idea why they wouldn't ask their own people but I am sure they had a good reason.

Anyway, people trying to call them out for some kind of shortfall, should probably be able to demonstrate the sort of creds that would qualify they understand the situation. AMWS grad here and grew up hunting in the Chugach, so I have spent some time up high.

>>784799
>All this damage control

>>784825
They set out intending to scale the mountain and climb back down, they didn't so they failed
Is failure in this case damning, no so why not admit it

>>784873
Its a pride thing obviously. Also my local tv station in Colorado reported on it and called it a rescue so I don't think anybody is buying it.

>>784873
I don't know what their objective was for this so I have no idea if they failed. Do you or are you guessing? It seems to have been a training mission after all.

Sure they could have acclimated all team members with an atmospheric chamber, but it isn't like success of failure of a training mission is critical. Again, I am an AMWS grad and plenty of guys fell out during our training, which was perfectly normal.

Nobody I ever dealt with seemed concerned with the 'internet credibility' of any given unit, so I suspect 'admitting it' is low on the priority list even if there is anything legitimate to admit.

>>784800
Over 14k feet? Shasta and Whitney, Shasta scaled in 3.5 hours and descent in 1.5 hours via Clear Creek route. Drove up from sea level that morning. My fingers swelled up from ascending too fast to the degree where I could barely open my backpack or retie my shoes so I figured I should get down extra quick. I compete in endurance racing (Ironman, ultra running, marathon MTB) and regularly see 50 year old women finishing ahead of the SEALs, Pararescue, etc. that get in through charity spots. It's clear that fitness is not a very high priority in the "elite" sections of the US Military, very unfortunate.

>>784942
Are you suggesting the goal was to scale the mountain then be airlifted by civilians?
Because if they were supposed to be rescued by military they would've been ready to get them
It's good that they don't care about their credibility because they haven't gained any from this exercise
Tell us again that you're an AMWS grad as if that makes what happened on the mountain not a failure

>>784825
I think it's about the hubris of pretending it wasn't a rescue. What's exactly bad about realizing that you need some help to not die?

>>785042
This

>>784994
Ultralong distance running isn't a priority for a good reason. You have to make a lot of tradeoffs with your training to be ready for that stuff, but combat personnel need to be able to move under loads and maintain a bunch of other skills. If you put 70lbs on one of those women and set her off on an obstacle course against a SEAL, the results would be very different.

It's cute that you're so proud of being able to beat them at something they do on the side for fun though.

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>>785059
But I do it on the side for fun, and my actual day job is barely physical, same goes for most of those 50 year old women, there is no such thing as a professional 50-59 age group triathlete. People that are barely active climb 14ers all the time and sure as fuck don't get helicoptered off the hill, especially in CO where the prominence is next to nothing, I did the Leadville 100 race and there were 70 year olds and people with one leg logging 14k feet of elevation gain at between 10k and 13k altitude, didn't see any helicopters anywhere. "Americas finest" more like Americas whinest.

>>785059
every word you wrote is a caveat you made up because the other guye has more knowledge and your pride cant accept that on an anonymous forum, Dunning-Kruger in action.

>>785069
>didn't see any helicopters anywhere
we had a guy die last year on the trail 100.

I think it was the bike race. He just keeled over dead. 50-something years old, seemed in good health.

>>785081
Exactly, did he give up when he started to have a bad time? Of course not, he was a true athlete, he rode it out. The "Special Forces" claim to have that attitude yet instead we see them calling for an uber ride halfway through a hike, while 50 year old dentists are out there giving it everything they have for a belt buckle and a T shirt.

>>785085
How do you know the two sick ones didn't have pulmonary or cerebral edema? If that were the case, it wouldn't make sense to put them in further danger.

I don't think anyone in the military considers "go until you die in training" to be a useful attitude. When people die in training, they ruin the careers of everyone involved.

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>>784741
It wasn't a "rescue"
It was a "training exercise"
They were "training" to be able to get the team from a low elevation to a high elevation with injured comrades
They need to reach an area that would be readily able to mount a "air-evac"
Now that successful mission is completed
America's finest can raise a brew in solidarity to a job well done
Another goal well earned
Ready for wherever the boss sends them
Mission Accomplished

>>785090
>pulmonary or cerebral edema?
>14k feet
I know 100% of your climbing experience is reading Into Thin Air, but 14k feet is a joke, you aren't going to die climbing from 10.5k to 14k in Colorado (known to many CO residents as an afternoon hike, not a training mission, except the civilian version includes the descent)

>>785085
he was, but as I'm sure you know hundreds of trail 100 entrants drop out.

most of them don't get flown out, but we keep choppers on hand when those races are run.

I have no particular comment on the athleticism of professional soldiers.

I was a marine, I did harder things in the corps than I've ever done on a mountainside in Leadville. I was much younger then, but some of the runs we used to do would kill most people. Not sure about ultramarathon runners though. Those guys and gals are a different sort.

>>785095
People from colorado are also acclimatized to living at higher elevations.

>>785095
We see HAPE cases in Leadville fairly regularly.

it's usually locals that have lived here for decades, but tourists get it too. We have a whole industry set up around treating HAPE and HACE from 14k and lower.

>>785100
to add to this, my cousin was born and raised in Leadville. At 18 she developed HAPE and had to move. She still won't stay here more than a couple hours.

>>785095
Christ, you really are dead-set on being smug about this, huh? Like another anon already said, there's actually not a lot of rhyme or reason to who gets edema where at those elevations.

>>785100
>>785103
Apparently somebody actually did a study on the thing and found locals and tourists are affected by different types of HAPE.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6644250

>>785079
>Dunning-Kruger

Donald Trump exhibits this. Which is scary. Add to that all his other flaws in temperament and mental health and it scares me he has a chance at the Whitehouse.

>>784741
Everyone knows the green berets are almost as big of jobbers as delta, so why does this article surprise you?

>>785244
>as big of jobbers as delta
Please, tell us how you would do SFOD-D's job better than it does.

>>785226
Haha you are a scared little bitch and probably too afraid to go /out/

>>784741
Obviously, they were expendable and they all knew it was a one-way trip.

>>784800
Only about 15 of the ones in my state (out of 40 or so). They range from only 3000 feet to just over 4800 feet. Prominence for the tallest one is just under 2,800 feet (Prominence for Longs Peak in Colorado is 2940 ft). Prominence distance and oxygen content are all that really matter. The biggest difference other than oxygen content where I live is that the summer temps are in the 100s and the humidity is 85-95% on the top of those mountains. Basically, hot as balls that can actually kill you if you are unprepared. Winter the mountains get something like 10+ feet of snow, but no one is allowed on those, in winter without special permit, because too many have died on them doing stupid things in winter.

>>784741
>Green berets
propaganda unit baby shit

>>784825

I live in NM in just outside of Red River at 8800 feet, bunch of relatives can't visit because of heart or blood pressure issues
Lot of friends who visit usually get pretty sink in a day or two, no body ever goes running or biking with me
My brother visited last year from Los Angeles and though he was having a stroke or heart attack just coming up the stairs to my house, he called his wife to say goodbye when he went to take a shit, it was sad
Cooking takes a while and I would love to have a soda that fizzed
Got a buddy in Leadville, Co and I huff and puff for a bit when I visit her, that's only another 2000'
The GB should have used supplemental oxygen or waited a few days to make the assent
Mission failure and risking the entire team because a couple of guys couldn't handle the load
Good they learned their limitations on a training exercise and not when it was supposed to count

>>785767
>Got a buddy in Leadville, Co and I huff and puff for a bit when I visit her,
I'm related to her or have dated her.
it's a small town.

>>784800

All of them you massive faggot.

No, really, it's what everyone does.

Literally and figuratively ALL OF THEM.

>>785445
Green Berets are responsible primarily for spook shit like living in the jungle and training guerillas or living in embassy compounds and training counter-insurgency forces. They've spent the past 40 years remodelling Latin America. I think you're mistaking them for the SEALs.

>>785428
>btfo in Somalia
> Jobbed to the Iranians
> Stuck on bodyguard duty for desert storm
> Didn't get selected to take out OBL

I honestly don't know how they are still around

>>785787

What is spook shit? English isn't my first language.

>>785858
You aren't supposed to hear about everything the do, for one. They're tasked largely with missions that have a high chance of failure (and catastrophic failure at that).

Eagle Claw failed because of logistical problems in the naval aviation field, not anything Delta was tasked with. That sort of fuckup is the reason we have JSOC now, so that the Navy can't just beg its way onto missions and then bring the wrong equipment because they don't know what a desert is.

>Stuck on bodyguard duty for desert storm
HVI security is one of Delta's specialties. They were active in places like Beirut for years and years doing that alongside assassinations, intelligence gathering and the like. We know they took part in things like the killing of Saddam Hussein's sons in the second Iraq War.

>Didn't get selected to take out OBL
DEVGRU probably go the nod because the JSOC commander was a SEAL admiral. The two units have a lot of overlap in roles, and a direct action raid like that is something they both train for a shitload and had been doing live all around the region for years at that point. If you were yourself a SEAL, wouldn't you pick SEALs, all other things being equal?

All other things might not have been equal, also. In Afghanistan, special operations groups often had areas of responsibility that didn't overlap. The base from which the raid was launched may have been in predominantly Navy territory to begin with.

I think the big thing you're forgetting is that SFOD-D has been extremely active throughout the occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan, doing stuff that falls under their specialties. They sometimes perform multiple raids per night for weeks at a stretch.

>>785862
"Spook" can mean a spy or secret agent, someone who works secretively with a secret agenda.

>>785428
>>785889
Can you answer another question, how much of a wannabe poser do you have to be to post every acronym of units you read about on /k/ and wikipedia as if you know a single thing about them?

>>785924
I'm from a place where a lot of people join the military. It's a gross southern hick town with a base nearby. A noticeable number of young men from there do join units referenced in this thread. Military lore and an interest in such is just part of growing up in a place like that.

Not that it really matters. Everything I said is a matter of record. I'm not claiming any secret insider knowledge or that I know how those groups do what they do. I just know what they do, not how. Not sure why it bugs you so much unless you're the wannabe poser who thinks he knows how their jobs are done and that he could do better because he heard they fucked up before.

>>785889
Mountaineering fail thread where we could all have learned from actual climber posters that tried to contribute, turns into a /k/ damage control thread.

>>785947
Is /k/ out's equivalent of calling everything that you aren't interested in personally /pol/? Literally any time someone mentions firearms or a military practice on this board in relation to another post there's someone acting like they've been violated.

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>>784741
They ought to be drummed out for this shame. ... SHAMMMEEEEE!!!!

>>785787
>remodelling Latin America

You mean ensuring Latin America is destabilized.

>>784741

If only the general public knew what goes on on SF.....

Just a hint:

It's all fucking marketing.

>>786075
Develop your hypothesis

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>I climbed up this tree myself so it's not actually a rescue.

>>786086
I snickered. This is a fantastic analogy.

>>786082

I'm not "in" but I've been "around"

SF is overhyped infantry.

I'm an experienced hiker and climber, avid outdoorsman, with a passion for knives, watches and other militaristic gear, that also reads some special squirrel military manuals on cool stuff. I know way more and more in detail than a GB I know, who isnt especially bright.

They do get special training and they are above the average soldier in resources and fitness, but they're still meatheads.

You know how military issue gear is? How issue knives are? Generally military equipment does the job but is medium-low in quality, fit and finish.

Well, infantry "does the job" but is generally mediocre at everything. SF covers just a wider range but it is also mid-tier.

Any civie specialist will beat a SF guy at one single given task, and that's why smart SF perosnell go to civie specialist courses on climbing, swimming, primitive survival etc....
What I mean is while they may be fitter than you and I, and be better with a gun, they still follow stiff military protocol and indoctrination, an lack that special "spark" any enthusiast has.

The GB I know has no special hobbies and is all around a bit boring person. He's a normie basically.

Thus, I'm not surprised those GBs thought "Dude let's go up that mountain bruh" "Let's do this bruh" and that they missed every fucking smart decission on gear and drugs to take with them.

>>786125
>lack that special "spark" any enthusiast has.
You could have just said you were an elitist.

>>786059
Didn't say it was a good thing.

>>786148

Well my point is Green Berets are ok at everything but not great at anythins specific, so it's understandable that they decided to climb that mountain unprepared and that they had to rescue them.

>>786189
They're great at what their job actually is, which is training native fighters in austere third world places. Everything else is just them trying to pick up some new tricks on the side.

I don't know where you got the idea that they're supposed to be supermen or door-kickers. That's just erroneous.

>>786204

SF were originally intended to be multi-taskers specialised in guerrilla warfare and unconventional tactics, not just door to dor hitmen or trainers like the GBs.

Less "specialized" SF units from around the world do get extensive mountaneering practice and are trained for all kinds of survival in all kinds of terrain.

>>786211
German bundeswhar are the premier mountaineering unit. Scary Germans.

>>786125
This fuckin guy right here

>>786355
i don't understand what are trying to say.

>>786355
>>bundeswhar

Never let your reach exceed your grasp. Mother nature can be a cruel bitch. Safety comes first.