Is trophy hunting /out/ approved?

>>750836
Hunting just for trophies is kind of gay.

Very poor posing. Looks like the hunters are bumming the bears.

Yea boi

>>750836
unless you are hunting something that can shoot back, no

I think hunting is bad. The universe is perfectly balanced; however we as humans believe we are "divine" because of our egos; so in turn we think we have the right to go about destroying the planet out of greed.

It shows how insecure and desperate these guys are; that they have to kill animals for bragging rights just so they can try and get some approval from their fellow man; as without approval it is a pointless exercise. It is truly sad that we're disrespecting life just so we can try to prove how masculine we are; especially when masculinity has done nothing but cause problems for our entire civilized lifespan.

Case in point pride and materialism; pride and greed are responsible for so many crimes against our fellow man. Do we really need so much? Do we really need so many material items or to sport hunt animals? No we don't; it's just what we've been taught thanks to this misplaced belief that our value is dictated by the approval of others.

Truly tragic.

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Imma black bear
My buttocks are so tasty
I wish my head was uppa guy's wall
I go on a torpor
Half the year to avoid the cold
It really sucks to be alive
Trichinella live inside me
They eat me alive
Ticks are all over my fur
It's truly sucks to be alive
Please shoot me

>>750846
Hemmingway pls, go back to your grave

>>750836
Only if you don't hunt more than one of a species that is not threatened then it's alright. For me I keep the head as a trophy since i won't do anything with it. If the animal is edible to me then i will eat what I've hunted.

Hunting bears is acceptable if you are taking their skin to wear for their power in battle.

>>750836
I don't know about the rest of /out/, but I think trophy hunting is pretty scummy.
I'm not a "nature" is in perfect harmony until man intervenes fag, but a big season of trophy hunting can utterly fuck an ecosystem for years. Wolf hunting has repeatedly been shown to twat up Yellowstone and other parks (They are competition for Coyotes and their absence allows elk etc. to overbrowse). Bear hunting is utterly cuntworthy considering the diminishing number of bears. Lions, tigers, leopards etc are also dangerously close to extinct. The only way your kids and grandkids will see these animals are on your fucking wall if you do this shit.
The types of animals historically trophy hunted are particularly important to ecosystems because they are apex predators. Removing them from the chain is damaging because it can unbalance a lot of other species at once, google the term "trophic cascade" for examples.
Perhaps most importantly, predators are some of the most compeling creatures to see in the wild, they are one of the reasons I go /out/ at all. Fewer predators leads to less interest in the wild which leads to less of it being conserved. You think any of china would be forest if giant pandas were all gone?
What's the fucking trade off? Bragging rights that you killed a cool creature half a mile away with a high powered weapon that utterly removed any risk from the equation? An ugly ass trophy that will decay in your house until you can only use the bones for a paperweight?
Nah, trophy hunting is for shortsighted pricks with self esteem issues.

>>750836
It's pretty lame. I only support hunting for food or population control, preferably both combined.

If there are too many lions and you plan to eat it, go ahead, have fun.

>>750836
People who feel the need to:

1: take a trophy of an animal they've killed
2: take a photo of them posing with the animal they killed

Are really fucking weird. Even taking a photo of you when catching a fish is fucking weird. It is probably a mental disease and actual sickness.

Killing something for food or because it is trying to kill you/someone else is perfectly fine though. It is also perfectly fine to make utility items and utility clothing out of animals you've killed (just not jewelry).

This isn't really a moral issue, this is a "what the fuck are you thinking?" issue.

I dont really mind any type of hunting providing that the animal isnt endangerd and the meat is harvested/eaten.
My main focus if the hunt is meat and pest control (wild boar here, so a bit of both).

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>trophy hunting

>Look ma, I pointed a gun and pulled the trigger! I'm a real tough boy now, aren't I?

>>750848
Careful not to fall for it boys

>>750836
Personally, I wouldn't kill something unless I plan to eat it or my life is threatened. But that's just me.

>>750868
I'll take a picture with a big deer or pig that I've shot or a nice fish that I've caught. I'll even get the head mounted if it's a really nice buck. I always eat everything I hunt or fish for though, the "trophy" is just a secondary benefit.

I'm from a very rural area where a high percentage of people hunt and fish and it's normal for people to take pictures with the animals they've killed and then hang their heads on the wall. My parent's house has a couple of deer heads on the wall and several pictures hanging up showing my dad and grandfather with a deer that they shot on hunting trips 30+ years ago (my grandfather has been dead for ~30 years now).

Hunting for sport is for faggots. Hunting for food and/or population control (collecting tags for money) is /out/ approved.

Just popping in to point out that across most countries hunting is part of conservation efforts (removing invasive or overpopulated species) and a main source of income for the parks (tags, trophy hunting old males who can't reproduce but still outcompete younger fertile males).

Unless we were to suddenly see a drastic reduction in human population then hunting, trophy or otherwise, is needed for a healthy ecosystem.

>>750896
>Unless we were to suddenly see a drastic reduction in human population

fingers crossed

>>750836
How do you know they aren't going to eat them? In Canada it is illegal to kill and not eat or otherwise utilize the animal.

>>750941
A lot of the conservation done in Canada is because of the money generated by hunting and fishing tags. I love when yuppie fucks give me shit for fishing, despite that fishing tag money fucking protected the lake and the land around it from being developed.

>>750877
Except for canned or penned hunts takes a lot more work than going to the grocery store you dumb cunt.

>>750896
I've been hunting and fishing for over 30 years and I've not once felt the need to take a photo of it or take a trophy. Antlers for instance end up as tool handles, buttons, inlays, and a variety of other stuff.

>>750953
The same is done for those big game hunts for endangered animals on African reserves. The bid on the hunts and that helps support the reserve and it culls the herd or gets rid of problem animals. Then the public gets outraged. lol

>>750954
As a long time hunter, I can safely say that hunting is fucking easy. The "hard" part is waiting around or actively learning the game trails and that....is just sitting on your ass or walking around on a hike.

Which is the same thing as doing anything else outdoors.

>>750854

kek

>>750864

Yeah, I agree with this. Plus if you're hunting only for trophy status, by definition you're removing the healthiest and most successful genes from the gene pool which is a bit stupid, especially if you're hunting something that can be used as food.

>>750848
That's a good one.

>>750977

You're removing the older, less fertile males who are still outcompeting the younger, more virile males for mates. There's a reason seasons are usually for older males regardless of whether you're hunting for trophy or meat.

How does bear meat taste like?

>inb4 like bear

>>751017
I imagine black bears would taste a lot better than brown bears.

Somewhat related: but don't you guys think its pathetic what passes as masculine these days? It's almost like a complete corruption of the concept. For example: we celebrate steroid pumping faggots who are so mentally weak that they risk their own health and even death just to look better for the opposite sex. Then there are the guys who go around picking fights with people who are so obviously weaker than them that any victory they achieve is pathetic.

It just seems to me that everything we do is designed only to look like a challenge to impress other people rather than as something we use to challenge our limits. Masculinity in that regard has lost all meaning.

>>750860
It's the primary job of wildlife departments and game wardens etc to monitor the numbers of the wildlife so hunting can take place responsibly, I.e. not fuck up the numbers forever

>>750836
It's only a trophy if you beat it in hand-to-claw combat. Otherwise it's just proof you have enough free time to sit on your ass until something enters your sights.

I forgot how salty this board gets when someone brings up trophy hunting.

I find it even more funny because most game preserves where people go hunting for trophy game also put an incredible amount of money towards conservation of animals.

But hey, who cares because trophy hunting is bad and we should let the poor natives of the countries where rich whites go to trophy hunt kill all the game off to eat instead of preserving it for future generations

What a board of faggots.

>>750860
>Bragging rights that you killed a cool creature half a mile away with a high powered weapon that utterly removed any risk from the equation?
>shooting a target from half a mile away is easy, I saw it on TV so I have to be right
Good post noguns.

>>751070
That's just a business model they created specifically to make that argument. It's pure PR. No matter what money is raised or how its used or if any money is raised at all, the person who goes out troefy huttin is basically just masturbating. It's just simply pointless.

>>751077
>That's just a business model they created specifically to make that argument. It's pure PR. No matter what money is raised or how its used or if any money is raised at all, the person who goes out troefy huttin is basically just masturbating. It's just simply pointless.
That explains why SA has so many wild animals compared to other African nations where the natives hunt those same animals for food...Yessir, just a puerile and false argument entirely.

Idiot.

>>750836
Completely depends on whether it's sustainable or not. I don't love killing things without eating them or getting some practical use from the carcass, BUT I'm not going to cry about it if it's done under a management system where the harvest can be sustained perpetually. I care way more about the total ecosystem than about whether I like what individual humans do to individual animals.

Trophy hunting provides powerful financial incentive for poor areas with wilderness to preserve wildlife instead of slaughtering them for market or to clear land for agriculture. There are large areas of Southern Africa that would be nothing but cow pasture if the ranchers couldn't make bank keeping that land available for game. 80% of the world's Cheetahs live on cattle ranches for this reason. Also worth noting that in Africa, unlike the US, it's legal to sell game meat on the open market so it's very rarely wasted.

Trophy hunters are basically willing to bankroll much larger amounts of wilderness for less total use than any other group. Over-hunting is generally a management problem, not a problem caused by the hunters.

>>751077
>that thing they actually do is just marketing
hmmmm

>>751077
>the person who goes out troefy huttin is basically just masturbating

Of course, that part is true. The rest isn't.

>>750848
5/10 you could probably get a few nibbles with this

>>751052
As an outdoorsman you should work on monitoring the wildlife as well. Conservation isn't the job of the state, its the job of the people.

>>751230
I pay attention, but I can't do anything close to what the feds do to measure waterfowl. My feelings about how many ducks I see in a week are pretty much irrelevant to an agency that spent that week scouring the same area with aerial photography.

Best I can do is follow that agency's guidelines and contribute to groups that work with them.

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All these thinly veiled trolls

>>751078
Your argument is false too. SA has those animals because the white niggers there are too lazy to work their land, and it's easier for them to create game farms for profit than raising any kind of crops.

Whether you like it or not, it is a business model, and it wouldn't exist if it wasn't profitable. The conservation of the species or whatever else is just sub effect.

>>751260
Who cares that conservation isn't the primary goal? If a bunch of African hicks would rather leave land fallow and host some hunters than ruin it with farms, why do you want them to stop?

>>750856
If you wear bear skin you can shapeshift

>>750856
I just want to sleep and fuck on a huge, thick bear hide in front of a fire. They're so damned comfy.

Their is a plague of wild hogs and deer across the US. Why not hunt those instead of flying to Africa to shoot lions and giraffes?

I personally don't think it is necessary, from a utilitarian approach. Culling populations, hunting for food, eliminating invasive species, and self defense are all perfectly good reasons to kill an animal. Doing it "just because" really isn't.

>>750860
This guy also knows what's up. This is like ecology 101. Apex predators are usually keystone species, and so removing them wreaks all kinds of havoc on the surrounding ecosystem.

>>751268
For fun. Let's not get into the whole "stop liking what I don't like" thing.

>why go hiking in the Himalayas if you haven't hiked every inch of trail in the USA?


Rifle hunting can barely put a dent in the hog problem. They can easily become pretty much fully nocturnal, and reproduce like mad. Trapping is the only thing that's highly effective. Ideally someone would bring out the money to run a capture-sterilize-release program but that hasn't happened yet.

>>751271
Trophy hunting =/= extermination

That guy doesn't have the first beginning of a clue what's up. We could have EASILY brought all those species to complete extinction if hunting weren't regulated.

The wolf situation out west is complicated because ranchers want them killed for reasons that have nothing to do with trophy hunting or conservation and kill every wolf they can shoot, poison or catch whether it's legal or not.

>>751017
Bear meat tastes like what bear has been eating.
If bear has been mostly dining on berries then bear will taste somewhat sweet.
If bear has been mostly dining upon carrion then bear will taste like carrion.
Or garbage or fish or ... you get the idea.

>>750836
As many others have already posted, Personally I don't have any problems with a hunter that takes a trophy if they kill an animal for meat/pelts/culling etc, as long as the reason is valid for shooting it in the first place and "nothing" really goes to waste I don't think it's that bad.

I've never actually hunted myself but while my grandpa was alive I went out with him a couple of times while he did the hunting just to hang out and I learn to skin/prepare game etc.

We both thought it was pretty weird to take pictures of whatever animal you shot tho, hunting is not a walk in the park but it's not that challenging either (With a gun at least), and posing like "Hey, I just killed this!" seems a bit disrepectful.

I do take pictures of fish I catch before I release them so I guess it's a bit hypocritical of me to judge others.

Trophy hunting is for fags. You eat/use what you kill or don't fucking kill it. Simple

>>751334
>trophy hunters kill a few animals, pay tens of thousands of dollars
You don't like this.

>Africans kill all the wild animals, eat them, then graze cattle shoulder-to-shoulder on the land
You think this is a-okay.

>>751340
you don't get it. you need to be white to damage the environment. Non-white people aren't oppressors so anything they do is what nature intended.

it's also impossible to eat an animal that you hunt for trophy purposes. the only possible way to have the antlers or skull mounted is to destroy all the meat. this is a fact, don't even try to question my expertise.

>>751274
>release
Why

>>751387
Because sterilized animals go out, prevent any remaining fertile animals from mating with other fertile animals, and if you sterilize enough of the population it will decrease faster than if you had just killed all the trapped animals.

If you just field-castrate captured males, it's more cost-effective than any other method.

>>751388
I'll have to look into it. I've read it hasn't been effective in stopping the feral cat problem

>>751392
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cochliomyia#Elimination_programs
Blowfly eradication is the most lauded use of the technique, but the class where I studied sterilize and release actually used feral cats as their main example of it being cost-effective. You just have to keep at it for a couple of generations.

>>751334
I think this is the consensus here on /out/ There's just a couple of guys trying to justify trophy hunting per se.

We all want our enviroment as healthy as possible, because we enjoy it. We enjoy hunting or/and fishing, and we respect nature because we also actually use it.

In fact, I wouldn't have a problem if you are trophy hunting and pulling your weight while at it. Selecting the animal, tracking it, killing it humanely as possible and actually taking your knife out of your belt to process it, but reality is that most of trophy hunters are just fat fucks with money that are told where to shoot and when, and that are carried to the spot. It's literally spoon feeding.. Just look at op's pic. Look at the guy at the far right. Do you think he can carry a couple days load on a backpack looking for a bear? Even if he was an ul fag there's no way a hammock can stand that lardwhale.

Also this >>751365

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>>751399
So your feelings about trophy hunting are just class resentment and trying to feel superior by claiming you put in the real work and they don't?

I know a guy who hunts goats and sheep in high mountains all around the world. Yeah, he's rich, but he puts in crazy work to bag those critters and I guarantee you he's spent more time above 12,000 feet than you.

Even in Africa, Elephant hunting is regarded as across-the-board physically demanding because it involves days and days of following promising trails that often end with only seconds to decide if the animal at the end is a shooter.

The most demanding thing I've done outdoors wasn't surfing, or free-diving, or backpacking. It was a zebra hunt in ridge-and-valley terrain where the stalking technique was to spring up one side of a hill, creep over the top and hope the herd was in shooting distance. If they weren't, you let them wander out of sight again and sprint down and back up another ridge where you hope to get in range.

Sure, there are lazy fucks who pop farm-raised elk on ranches from a recliner. There are still a lot of places they can't go though.

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>>750836
out is full of millenials who love to kill animals, sometimes pretending that they have to, otherwise they die (and they are scared of their death)

so yes, weak men will do anything to be pleased and their trophy is to live another day.

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>>751399
I definitely support trophy hunting. Trophy hunters have done more for conservation than any of you fucks. I don't care who is killing the animal or if they are fucking fat or not. The funds produced protect and manage wildlife all over the world.

>>751407
>So your feelings about trophy hunting are just class resentment
lol no

>I know a guy who hunts goats and sheep in high mountains all around the world.
Noice
> Yeah, he's rich, but he puts in crazy work to bag those critters
Noicer

>and I guarantee you he's spent more time above 12,000 feet than you.
Nope, I hike at 4k every weekend. I'm in Southamerica.

>Even in Africa, Elephant hunting is regarded as across-the-board physically demanding because it involves days and days of following promising trails that often end with only seconds to decide if the animal at the end is a shooter.

The most demanding thing I've done outdoors wasn't surfing, or free-diving, or backpacking. It was a zebra hunt in ridge-and-valley terrain where the stalking technique was to spring up one side of a hill, creep over the top and hope the herd was in shooting distance. If they weren't, you let them wander out of sight again and sprint down and back up another ridge where you hope to get in range.

Sounds like proper hunting

>Sure, there are lazy fucks who pop farm-raised elk on ranches from a recliner. There are still a lot of places they can't go though.

So you agree with me. You just described the average trophy hunter.

>>751413
So you dislike an archetype and entered this thread to dismiss a whole activity because these people you find so distasteful partake in something that resembles it.

>>751419
How being a fat fuck who can't even tie his shoes without sitting or being someone that can't hike 10 kms a day can be related to someone that will track an animal for a couple of days can be comparable? How those acts fit the same archetype? We are not talking about "hunting" as a genus, we are talking about different kinds of hunting, and different purposes in particular.

>>751421
Of course those people aren't the same, but they're both trophy hunting. Doesn't matter to the animals or the ecosystem if the hunter is in shape or not.

It seems like you're fixated on the fitness required to do something as a gauge of whether it's worth doing. You may find life getting disappointing when you get a little older.

I'm a fairly serious athlete and have done some intense hunting, but I still park my ass in a tree to hunt deer every winter. I hunt turkey with a deaf man with two fake knees. Some hunting just doesn't require physical fitness to be effective, but it's still fair-chase hunting.

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everytime i look at the OP thumbnail i think it's pic related

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>>751427
Now that's a real hunt, whoo boy.

Get you some flatlander tourists and give 'em a taste of that Alabama black snake. Takes a real man to fuck a man like a bitch.

>>751399
Without trophy hunters, there would be no wild game left in Africa.

Africans have no concept of conservation, so if it weren't for fat fucks that want to kill lions, there would be no lions. You might not like it, but this is the reality.

I have family and friends that work and worked in conservation in a number of African countries. If the animal is kept on a small property it's pretty easy, but most guys pay more for a better hunt deeper into the bush. People usually process the meat in field kitchens back at the hunt camp. What's your problem with a PH? There's a lot that can go wrong in a hunt, and the PH is there to make sure you find and shoot the right animal (shooting a cow buffalo instead of a bull, etc). This is important because in many African countries you can get a death sentence for poaching. Hunting isn't as cushy as you think it is, I would advise tagging along on a safari hunt if you ever get the chance.

>>751413
>>751421
How do you know so much about trophy hunters and trophy hunting when you've never done it and don't live in any of the trophy hunting places we were discussing?

>>751433
see >>751260

>>751440
>profit and conservation can't go hand-in-hand
Why not? Would you rather they just raze the wilderness for agriculture?

shake that bear

>>751440
So you'd rather have intensive agriculture than a wildlife ranch? I'm not really understanding what point you're trying to make.

>>751444
>>751447
>raze the wilderness for agriculture
> intensive agriculture

Trophy hunting is a business who targets fat fucks with money, most of the times new money. That's all. It's as pleb as it gets. Nobody is talking about replacing wild life with corn or soy. It's just retards that can't even into hunting killing apex predators or top tier hervivores because they can pay for it. No effort required (not always, but most of the times to be fair). It's literally the monster truck of hunting.

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>>751452
You're not getting the cause and effect here.

Lots of that trophy hunting in Africa is done on potentially profitable grazing or farmland, and the only thing keeping the people who own or manage it from using it for something that is not wilderness is the money from those trophy hunters. Take that money out, and they're either going to allow the locals to slash and burn it while hunting the wildlife to extermination, or start grazing cattle on it, crowding out the herbivores and shooting the carnivores to protect the livestock.

The areas allowed to sit open as wilderness for the benefit of non-hunting tourists are absolutely miniscule compared to that kept wild by hunting money. Doesn't matter if that money is new, or if the people spreading it around are fat. That's the one single thing preserving things you presumably care about.

I bet you don't know a single person who's hunted in Africa.

>>750836

The people who do it are generally obnoxious.

>>751456
>and the only thing keeping the people who own or manage it from using it for something that is not wilderness is the money from those trophy hunters
Nope. A big nope.

Hicks there will just loose their farms because they have no access to credit and are not willing to farm their lands. I know what I'm talking about and I'm not trying to convince you about it btw.

>>751462
So what happens when they lose their farms then? The government takes them over and leaves them wild forever, guaranteed no matter which way the wind blows politically? Seems more like a bank would get it and sell it to someone who can turn a profit on it one way or another, which if trophy hunting were out of the picture would mean farming, like I said.

The Namibian hunt operators I know personally keep some cattle, but that's like 20% of all the land they hold, while they keep the rest wild for hunting, so this thing about them being too lazy to farm (as if it matters to the issue at hand) holds no water.

>I know what I'm talking about and I'm not trying to convince you about it btw.
Good for you? I don't think you know everything there is to know though, since my interactions with the industry we're talking about sound nothing like what you're describing.

>>751463
>So what happens when they lose their farms then?
Most of the times the land is lost not to the goverment, but to privates (banks), and the normal procedure is to put the land to auction as you said.

> so this thing about them being too lazy to farm (as if it matters to the issue at hand) holds no water.
I mean that they are just looking to the easier path for the money. They could invest in collecting solar power and avoid load sheddings. Don't know. Lot's of things to do with land. You seem an educated feller and you probably can think about a lot of means to get more money for square feet than putting down rhinos.

> I don't think you know everything there is to know though
Of course not. Jesus. I only know what I've experienced and my opinions are derived from that.

>my interactions with the industry we're talking about sound nothing like what you're describing

Nice to hear that. Mine don't. But you seem to have an emotional connection to them, which is fair. I'm a third impartial party. And I think their business model is not efficient. It's just the easy way to earn a buck.

>>751470
You're just not putting down a reason why they shouldn't allow hunting or why it's evil other than that you have some sort of disdain for the people involved. You've come at them with accusations of sloth, inefficiency and crassness, but that's just not very interesting. That could all be true, and I don't see why that makes the hunting a bad thing.

>looking to the easier path for the money
So they should take up some risky struggle when there's an easier, sustainable, aesthetically acceptable option available? Why?

>they could invest in collecting solar power
This takes huge amounts of space to do on any substantial scale with present-day technology and the land where it is done is far from wild. It also takes capital, which people without access to credit, as you've said, can't just round up.

>you probably can think about a lot of means to get more money for square feet than putting down rhinos.
Not that allows the rhino herd to keep living there.

>I'm a third impartial party
There's no such thing, and you clearly are the furthest thing from it since you have such an aversion to these landowners and their clients that you think they should risk their necks just to not do stuff you don't like despite the environmental impact.

Are you a black south African, or a communist or what? I'm genuinely confused as to what would make someone despise rural white landowners so much.

>>751473
>and I don't see why that makes the hunting a bad thing
Hunting is not a bad thing. I never said that and never will. You need to control some species. We are discussing op's topic and pic, hence: big tittied growned up men hunting apex predators which clearly they couldn't be capable of hunting without help in every sense of the word "help".

>So they should take up some risky struggle when there's an easier, sustainable, aesthetically acceptable option available? Why?

I'll disregard the aesthetic atribute you are linking to the rest. Because that's the prooven way to get profit.

>This takes huge amounts of space to do on any substantial scale...

It was an example of something else you could do with the land. Damn. The red soil is acidic enough to grow bananas. And they have enough land to sundry them and sell them to the rest of the world as organic sun dried bananas. There's plenty of things to do more profitable than shooting animals. But they involve some effort besides pointing and shooting. You are an intelligent being. Don't do this.

>I'm a third impartial party
>There's no such thingg, and you clearly are the furthest thing from it since you have such an aversion to these landowners and their clients
I couldn't care less about them. But I just can not understand how in this day and age those niggers can't get their act together. It's just like, beyond me. Triggers me to this level. I'm still conversating with you in this persian russian roulette discussing forum about killing lions.

>Are you a black south African, or a communist or what?
Lol. No m8, neither.

> I'm genuinely confused as to what would make someone despise rural white landowners so much
I despise niggers. Don't care if their white, brown, black or russians

>>751481
This is so strange. You clearly don't care about the wildlife at all, just that fat men shoot big animals and that makes you upset. You also seem upset by the idea that not everybody wants to rape their land into oblivion to make more money than they make right now.

That's literally all you've said. Growing bananas is just as bad for the wildlife as a solar farm, or a mine, or an oil refinery would be, so I don't see why anyone who gives a hoot about conservation would want that.

>>751017
Very much like pork.

>>750888
>>750982
>>751209

Do you guys not see my point? I'm not even trolling.

>>750942
Yesh. Down with the cancer that is the human race. I don't even care much if I'm among the culled; shit has gotten out of hand.

>>751078
>Yessir, just a puerile and false argument entirely.
My God, you're an insufferable cunt. Nowhere in the post you replied to was the statement made that your argument was false.
>puerile
At least you managed to capture the essence of that one; congratulations, you're still a faggot.

>>751519
Pull yourself together hippie. Nobody understands why you think your feelings about hunters are important.

>>750836
not really. trophy hunting is for faggots who can't be a real man so they have to compensate by killing something better than they are. out is about appreciating the outdoors.

>>750836
It's fine by me, as long as it's regulated.

>>750836
Trophy hunters are idiots.
I hunt deer, moose, black bear and turkey and I always eat my meat.
Why would I take an animal's life if I'm not going to eat it/ it was not a danger for me?

Trophy hunters are the (mostly) male equivalent of duckfacing blonde bimbos on facebook.

>>751594
>the only way to get an animals antlers or hide is to incinerate the rest of the carcass
I'm not familiar with many places where it's common practice to discard the meat. Even if the hunter himself doesn't eat it, in most of the world the meat can go to market or to feed staff and effectively "subsidize" the trip and therfore act as a lawful exchange of the hunter's property (the carcass) for the services of the locals.

>>750848
I agree but those semicolons gave me cancer

>>751073
Nothing against guns at all, use guns to hunt elk, deer, rabits, whatever, use them to cull, scare of dingos/coyotes, shoot partridge, pheasant, what fucking ever. You just can't pretend you earned a bear skull when you were playing on easy mode.

>>750846
This.

Taking pride in killing something that literally stood no chance to begin with is just sad as fuck.

Killing something for food is fine. Killing something so you can take an Instagram snapshot of it or mount it on your wall is compensating for flaws in your own personality.

>>750836
Hunting is an aesthetic experience that can be hard to understand if you haven't fully immersed yourself in it before. Some people hunt only occasionally and with great fanfare and don't understand that (strictly trophy-oriented hunters), and some people manage to do it all the time without fully appreciating the aesthetics of it (meat hunters who treat game like farm animals).

>>750964
Typical yupppie fuck hunt style

>>751538
This


Trophy hunting is just that; hunting for trophies.

And why do we need trophies? To impress other people with our accomplishments so we can get approval. Sounds pretty insecure to me. Anyone can pull a trigger; a real man has enough self confidence to value himself based on his place in the universe and his own morality rather than the perceptions of others.


Besides; anyone can stealth kill something which isn't able to fight back; if you want to prove you're a real man (based upon the masculinity concept pushed down our throats by society) then step into a boxing right and show the world how tough you are.

The rest of us will be enjoying our lives as a "human being"; rather than a "human doing".

Doing what? Seeking approval from our fellow man and chasing status.

>>751652
You've clearly never enjoyed healthy male camaraderie. I feel bad for you, son.

>>751600
True, it makes sense.
But most trophy hunters chop the head off and leave the carcass in the woods here in North America.
Maybe it's different in Africa but I don't understand why one would pay thousands of dollars just to have a grizzly's head over his fireplace (that was shot 200 meters away with a 30-06).

>>750953
I'm a bit of a hippie fuck but I understand what hunting and fishing means to conservation efforts. Also, game meat is delicious.

>>751051
Masculinity has always been about peacocking

>>751672
>most trophy hunters chop the head off and leave the carcass in the woods here in North America
But that's blatantly false. The only animals it's legal to not recover the meat from are brown bears, wolverines and wolves, and I don't know a single person who does what you've described because "most trophy hunters" never get the opportunity to hunt any of those animals.

>I don't understand why one would pay thousands of dollars just to have a grizzly's head over his fireplace (that was shot 200 meters away with a 30-06).
Because for most people that's not what they do it for. The pursuit, the hunt itself, is a unique experience that I suppose you find easy to discount since you've never partaken in it.

>>751680
>But that's blatantly false.
You've ever heard of Canada?

>>751680
>The pursuit, the hunt itself, is a unique experience that I suppose you find easy to discount
Yeah like "pursuing" animals from a treestand, shooting at them from 50 meters?

>>751680
>I suppose you find easy to discount since you've never partaken in it
I bow hunt deer and moose and I often see people paying a few K for a trip to Yukon where they only keep the trophy's head, so please don't talk out of your ass.

>>750848
Very Nice, I doubt I could've come up with something like that on the spot

>>751785
Wow, Canada's fucked, eh? That sort of waste is definitely not common practice in the contiguous US at least.

And yes, hunting from a blind is still hunting, even if it's not the hardest thing ever. It's not my favorite approach, but it's not cheating or anything.

>>751611
>Nothing against guns at all, use guns to hunt elk, deer, rabits, whatever, use them to cull, scare of dingos/coyotes, shoot partridge, pheasant, what fucking ever.
This has nothing to do with the difficulty of making long distance shots.

>>751827
Not him, but as a hunter and international trophy hunter, I'd argue that long shots are in fact less true to the spirit of a humane and sporting hunt than simpler shots. I use a modern rifle to make the most consistent clean kills I can while still stalking within a range where the animal can credibly have a chance to detect me.

Long shooting both removes the stalk element and makes one more likely to make a less-clean kill.

When I say long distance I mean 450m+. Anything within that is easy-tier with a modern magnum and good glass. I prefer shots inside of 150m though and the closer the better.

>>751830
>long distance shooting is easier than shooting something at a close distance
This is how I know you are full of shit. No one who has ever touched a gun would say that.

>>751833
You imbecile, that's not what I said at all. It's undoubtedly a harder shot at long range, but not more sportsmanlike because of the elevated risk of a poor hit and foregoing the stalk. Easy and hard have little to do with that.

>>751834
>You imbecile, that's not what I said at all
That is the logical summary of your statement brought to its most base level.
>but not more sportsmanlike because of the elevated risk of a poor hit and foregoing the stalk.
How is it unsporting if you dont have to stalk? The practice to get good at distance shooting suddenly doesnt matter? It isnt hard to make an ethical kill at that range, you just have to know how to shoot better than a fudd who goes out shooting three times a year. Sounds like you live in a place where there is no opportunity for such practice and as a result you cant fathom that not everyone is as bad with a rifle as yourself.

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>>751840
>The practice to get good at distance shooting suddenly doesnt matter?
It matters a lot in a target match, which is a great place to showcase such skill. When you make shots like that on game, it's still a hard shot, arguably harder than on paper, but you've fundamentally changed the interaction between the hunter and the quarry by firing from such a range that the animal has no possible way to detect you. Elk don't pick up shit at 800m, ask me how I know. Even 200 is a totally different story as far as getting made by the game. So it requires skill, but not the skills of a stalker and game hunter.

>It isnt hard to make an ethical kill at that range, you just have to know how to shoot better than a fudd who goes out shooting three times a year. Sounds like you live in a place where there is no opportunity for such practice and as a result you cant fathom that not everyone is as bad with a rifle as yourself.
You never did say what range you mean, just fyi. I have a neighbor who DRTs elk at 800m with a specialized rifle and match ammo. In fact, I practice on the range where he practices to do that. Thing is, no matter how good I get at those shots, there will always be more variables, more opportunity for there to be a twig you don't see or for the animal to move. I like to keep my shots simple and clean and will let game walk rather than take shots where I can't call it 100% perfect.

I could make the same line of insults you've taken about my supposed ineptitude with a rifle about why you apparently can't stalk, but both of those are immaterial to the more interesting topic of what makes a hunt compelling, aesthetically interesting and sporting.

>>751830
>as a hunter and international trophy hunter
JFC anon get your shit together. Cringeworthy as it gets.

>>751851
Just saying I've taken part in the activity under discussion. Don't know how else to put it without providing some sort of even more pretentious biography.

>>751849
>I dont have the money to afford a good rifle in a decent caliber for ELR shooting.
>I dont have the will to practice ELR
>stalking is the true measure of a hunter!
>I never said shooting ELR was easy, I have a neighbor who does it!
Listen up buddy, shooting something well at a long distance is much harder than stalking, even more so when you consider how much range time it takes to actually get to the level where you can do that. Even more so when it comes to becoming good at making wind calls. I know this board rarely has an understanding of firearms but this is a whole new level of retarded.

>>751860
Well, is it hard or is it easy? First you said it's easy and I must be retarded for not taking half-mile shots at every opportunity, and now you're saying it's the true measure of a man and takes crazy skill.

I've consistently said that it's a challenging skill to learn, but someone who practices can take game at ranges where the stalking element comes out of the equation, and I'm not personally a fan of that because it simplifies the hunt to glassing and shooting.

Yes, stalking or setting up in a stand where game will come close is the most interesting part of fieldcraft to me, and a hunt where that is minimized seems like it would be disappointing. I stand by that 100%, but again it has nothing to do with what's hard or easy or requires the biggest dick.

Again, it's not actually important, but I hunt anything bigger than whitetails with a Weatherby Accumark Mk. V in .300 Weatherby and a Monarch 3 2.5x10 scope with a mil-dot reticle. It's not a record-setting tack-driver but it's an excellent long-range gun and I enjoy stretching its legs against paper and the extra peace of mind it provides on those slightly longer shots I do take on game.

>>751868
So a game stand is preferable to taking out an antelope from 900m away?

I wouldnt really call that rifle an excellent long range gun unless some serious work has been done on it. I would call it an excellent rifle for all game in the US at medium to close ranges but long rage? Certainly not if it is a stock rifle.

Speaking of big game calibers like that one of my friends recently got a Ruger #1 in .458 win mag, that is a beast and extremely expensive to feed.

>>751882
To me? Yes. The interaction with the animal, being within a range where it can readily make you and flee if it does is key. I'm not out trying to make it illegal to shoot game at those ranges, but I wouldn't teach my son to do it either.

Longest shot I've taken on game was a springbok at almost 400m (not super long, but bear with me) and it just wasn't the same. They'll ignore you at even that close of a range, and I had all the time in the world. Just didn't feel right to me.

Friend who shoots ELR on elk has some 14lbs monstrosity of a custom rifle in .300 win mag that I would hate to carry anywhere.

.458 is a dank round. What kind of rifle is that in? That's probably the caliber I'd go with if I ever drop the money on a double rifle.

>>751889
Longest I have ever taken was around 800m on an antelope. I want to go to AK to go hunting mountain goats. That rifle your friend has weighs less than my .308 I use for practice shooting. The .458 is in a Ruger #1, he has a thing for falling block actions. If you were going to drop money on a double rifle get a H&H caliber instead of the cheapest american equivalent.

>>750836
Only if it's done with a basic bow and arrow and a Bowie knife

>>751894
>If you were going to drop money on a double rifle get a H&H caliber instead of the cheapest american equivalent.
Funny you say that. I was in the H&H showroom in NYC a month or so ago. Unless I come across H&H money I'm going to have to factor in the cost of practice ammo with whatever lower-tier double I can afford.

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>>751895
>mfw

>>751899
>Funny you say that. I was in the H&H showroom in NYC a month or so ago.
Got any pictures? I have only been to their London showroom. I wonder if the one they opened in Moscow is still around. Yeah they are super expensive, no denying that. I have this really interesting coffee table book about the company that goes into detail about their history and what they have done that changed the gun world.

>>751902
I didn't take any pics, but if you visit they're super helpful and treat you like a customer even if you flat out say you're not one. They take a long-view approach to customer development because they have people come in and pretend to be poorfags who then write checks on the spot for something they like, or actual poorfags who save up for decades to buy an H&H.

Funny you mention a Moscow showroom. The salesmen in NYC told me that due to sanctions against Russian plutocrats related to the conflict in Ukraine, they've had to turn away a ton of serious customers from the London shop. Sounds like they aren't allowed to do business with anybody in Russia who can afford their product.

Website indicates that they only have gun rooms in NYC, London and Dallas. Don't know when Moscow closed.

Are you a Russian?

>>751907
No, I live in AZ. At the Beinfeld gun show I saw a gentleman wearing cow shit covered overalls pay cash for a matching set of double guns from James Purdey and Sons. He asked the man at the booth how much the cost and was told, "well they come in a set and they are 80k each." The buyers response was, "Oh, well in that case I better pay cash, I dont want the wife ever learning how much these cost." The man then proceeded to pull out a massive wad of cash and pay for the gun set.

The salesmen for such places have been trained to never judge by appearances.

When did this place get filled with hippies? Goddamn.

>>751947
It's not a matter of muh poor animals

It's a matter of fucking despising trophy hunting for the faggot behaviour it is.

>>750836

does anyone else think that picture looks like a dead bear sex party?

they have the dead bears bent over a log and it's hard to tell if they're wearing pants or what's going on back there

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>>751963
this. pic related - this stupid kid isn't hurting anyone. but he's fucking awful and annoying because he's a fucking pointless faggot. like tofey hutters.

>>751976
yup, lookit >>751427

>>751976
>yup, lookit

Oh good, thanks.

>>752006
>trophy hunters
It's funny how nobody's slowed down to define this term despite feeling so strongly about it.

It seems to me that most men who hunt at all grew up doing so, and that the emphasis of their hunting was sometimes more about getting some game and sometimes more about getting some impressive game, and nobody has actually said at what point their hunting, which for 99% of them was never necessary to survive, whether they were shooting squirrels or big-antlered deer, becomes this loathsome trophy hunting.

Since so few hunters actually need to hunt to live, I think we need to face the obvious fact that the real reason we hunt at all is to scratch an itch, maybe primal, maybe conditioned, to play a certain role in the ecosystem for a while. I think once we're honest about this, openly admit that all recreational hunting is a selfish but usually harmless pursuit, that we can understand how the kinds of trophy hunting that seem so unacceptable are, in principal, no different from a young boy taking his first rabbit home to his mother to cook.

Sometimes men masturbate, and there's nothing wrong with that so long as they don't cum on my face.

>>751411
Lol millenials, as a stereotype, are the kids who whine and bitch about hunting becuase it's mean. But they still eat hormone filled cattle from big-business grocery stores that literally don't care about the environment.

Aka: probably you.

>>752044
oh who cares

>>752076
Literally everyone bothering to post in this thread, since it's the topic and all?

>>752044
>comparing a young boy catching his first rabbit to ludicrous self-agrandisement
>b-b-but it's in essence no different

Wow mate.

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>>750836

>>752718
You're still just saying it's a matter of degree. Come on, give a hard and fast differentiator between those two examples.

>>752761
Of course it's a matter of degree, you oxygen thief, just like talent and emotion. Life is a matter of degree. A young boy doesn't show the same level of self-aggrandisement as the men in OP's picture.

The factor that seperates the two is a certain sense of humility and respect, not the absence of pride. That kid isn't going to mount the rabbit on his wall if he's raised to be a proper human being.

>>752769
Oh please, any little boy is going to tell people about his first anything. There are precious few things anyone does where approval from others isn't a factor, and hunting is certainly not one of those things. The question is, who are you playing with, who are you telling, and every hunter I know really only shares this stuff with other hunters, which is a perfectly reasonable thing to do, sharing your experiences with other people who are into the same stuff.

All those wicked, proud, trophy hunters grew up hunting squirrels and durr. Everyone I know just does it for the novelty of a new place, new quarry, new challenge, the same way someone goes to a new country to backpack instead of only ever walking in the nearest state park.

>>752770
>There are precious few things anyone does where approval from others isn't a factor, and hunting is certainly not one of those things.

Speak for yourself. If you want to be this autistic about the subject, enjoy yourself, but one day you'll have to face the fact that you can't cram everything into nicely labelled boxes.

>>752772
If you lack the introspection to see that societal pressures are taken into account in even seemingly innocuous decisions, then you should probably change your name.

I'm not being autistic, just trying to have a discussion besides "stop liking what I don't like".

>>752776
>If you lack the introspection to see that societal pressures are taken into account in even seemingly innocuous decisions

societal pressures =/= approval from others
These terms do not have identical meanings. You're trying to squirm your way out of it, which is highly annoying.

Also, while I'm at it:

>>752770
>any little boy is going to
>are precious few things anyone does
>every hunter I know
>Everyone I know just does it

You're full of generalisations and anecdotal assumptions.

At this point I believe you're not only highly autistic, but having an argument only for the sake of "winning" an argument instead of progress.

>>752782
At least I've presented anything at all besides calling something self-aggrandizing, which is the only semi-interesting point you've raised. Everything else is just calling me annoying (though the bit about self-aggrandizement is very nearly the same thing) instead of raising any reasons why those assumptions or anecdotes are fully meaningless.

Sharing personal experience isn't how one goes about winning a debate. In fact, it's more like opening up and making oneself vulnerable as a show if good faith in order to have an honest discussion, but I see you're not about that. I did plenty of debate in school, and if I were just jacking off I would have taken a totally different approach.

>>750836

Its pretty crappy.

But if your going to eat the meat, use the skin, and or mount the head its fine.

>>751051

That's not masculinity, and the only people who worship that shit are rednecks themselves.

Take a look at /out/ and the people that are celebrated here. I think Proenneke, Uncle Ray and the like are pretty good examples of masculinity. Confident, but not arrogant. Skilled, but not showoffs. True masculinity doesn't need to shout about itself.

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>>752785
>I did plenty of debate in school
>Sharing personal experience is more about opening up and X and Y

You're not sharing something, you're using personal experience as a "valid" argument. Read your previous posts. Again, all this squirming is making me stick to
>At this point I believe you're [...] having an argument only for the sake of "winning" an argument instead of progress.

>>753201

Man that beard's got its own fucking 6 pack

>>751230
>2016
>Trusting people to do the right thing.
Shit, look around dude.

>>752904
>eat the meat
damn right, sustenance is key.

>use the skin
sure. warmth, protection from the elements and injury.

>mount the head
no. decorations aren't key to survival.

>>753295
It's a sign of status. It's peecocking. Completely valid.

>>753295
Really, you only do things that are necessary for survival?

If someone goes outdoors, takes part in a sustainable activity and brings back a souvenir to keep in their own home I don't see what skin it is off your nose. They didn't have to kill that animal for food or its hide either. All that can be had from vegan sources these days.

>>753201
Hi there, you seem to have made a mistake while posting and used a name for no reason at all.

>>750848
Based anon

Trophy hunting is a way for the white devils to live out their fantasies since they are no longer allowed to hunt and conquer other people.

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>>753384
Sounds like you ought to support it wholeheartedly to make sure they don't go back to the real deal.

What other kind of hunting is there?
Big game subsistence hunting isn't a thing anymore.

>>753451
>What other kind of hunting is there?
You can hunt for food, a lot of people do. Unless this is a PETA bait post in which cause you sure earned your (you)

>>753463
People have been making this argument throughout the thread, though. The psychological motivations for hunting heads and hides aren't very different from those for hunting game you'll only eat, given that neither hunter has to do what they do for subsistence.

>>753471
So people dont hunt for food anymore? I better stop eating what I hunt. Hell I better go buy shares in a battery chicken farm that way I can help do my part to do away with hunting.

Hunting is vastly better than any intensively reared animal or even any animal that is ever fed corn as part of its life cycle on a farm.

>>753476
They don't have to hunt to live. Don't be intentionally dense. You hunt because you get a kick out of hunting, and like the meat. I hunt because I get a kick out of it, like the meat, and get stoked when I see a big set of antlers. Not really very different.

>>753482
>They don't have to hunt to live.
Some people do and wild meat is much better for you from a nutritional standpoint than farmed meat. So what is living if it isnt eating things that are good for you instead of what is easy? I mean cooking isnt needed to live now if we use your shitty argument. KFC and McDonalds are everywhere, there is literally no reason to cook for yourself unless you get a kick out of it. I get stoked when I see a big mixing bowl, but cooking isnt necessary, there are stores that will provide for you much cheaper and easier than what you can cook at home, so it isnt strictly needed.

>>753489
What are you even saying? You're talking to someone who eats copious amounts of wild fish and game and has a vegetable garden and orchard. Of course that stuff's better for you.

I was just saying that if I didn't like hunting, I wouldn't do it. But I do, so I hunt. You probably enjoy it too. Once we admit we enjoy stalking and killing things and are honest about this, the distinction between what any other law-abiding hunter does isn't very sharp.

>>753495
> Once we admit we enjoy stalking and killing things and are honest about this, the distinction between what any other law-abiding hunter does isn't very sharp.

We aren't all one hive mind Anon. I don't enjoy stalking and killing things; I happen to value life. Would I kill to survive? Yes I would but I wouldn't kill for fun.

I can appreciate being self sufficient and hunting for food; I have no problem with that

>>753495
I dont enjoy stalking though, I enjoy shooting things from 500 or more meters away, even better if it happens to be an animal I can eat.

>>753503
>I don't enjoy stalking and killing things; I happen to value life. Would I kill to survive? Yes I would but I wouldn't kill for fun.
now this is the viewpoint that shows your retarded just because you dont enjoy killing things doesnt mean that a cow wasnt slaughtered to make your burger so unless your a vegan (which is also bullshit) you just leave your killing to a massive faceless corporation who couldnt give a fuck about that animal whereas a hunter has to track and look that deer in the eye before he kills and butchers and eventually eats it. Now just because that hunter enjoys the tranquility of the forest and the thrill of the hunt doesnt make it any less noble for having a much more intimate relationship with your food

>>753521
But trophy hunting isn't killing for survival or food; trophy hunting is killing for sport.

So what is your point Anon?

>>750836
I got no problem with hunting for food or to control a population, but I fucking detest trophy hunters, they are scumbags if you ask me.

>>753225
FUCK!... you beat me to it!

>>750850
fucking lol

>>753523
Are you a vegan? If not you don't really have a leg to stand on because you clearly place your own enjoyment over something else's ability to live. I'm not a vegan but it's more than feasible for anyone living in a first world country.

I kill for sport and have things killed for my own enjoyment. No shame in that.

>>753507
"Stalk" is a technical term here. In the hunting regulations a stalk hunt is any in which dogs aren't used. Whatever you do to get within range of the target is the stalk.

>>753503
I'm obviously talking about the person I was replying to, who I believe said he hunts, not anyone who might happen to read that post.

>>753523
>hunting
>a sport
I have no problems with guys hunting and putting some muscle to it, but 99% of the times is a bunch of lardwhale hicks just sitting there waiting for the animal to get the bait. Disgusting.

>>753551
sport =/= athletic sports
It just means something done for enjoyment under a certain code of conduct/rules.

As for
>99% of the times is a bunch of lardwhale hicks just sitting there waiting for the animal to get the bait
99% of North American hunters live where the only large game is the whitetail deer. They're incredibly skittish in areas where they're hunted. With the exception of the dubiously ethical methods of driving and running them with dogs, hunting deer by any method other than sit-and-wait is just going to be ineffective and kind eccentric.

>but muh woodsman stalking through the woods
Still-hunting is more effective in areas of open, old-growth timber with low deer density, and more people do it in places where that's the situation. Deer are pretty dense and have access to lots of tangled underbrush where stalking them is near-impossible in most of their range.

>If you're a trophy hunter, I think you're a pretty weird dude.
>If you hunt, and then drag the carcass over and specifically pose it to take a picture, I think you're a pretty weird dude.
>If you mount heads or any other decaying bodyparts on walls, I think you're a pretty weird dude.
>If you fuck yourself in the ass with the collarbone of your game, I think you're a pretty weird dude.

It's not the action of hunting or taking pride in it that's making this so damn laughable, it's these retarded half-autistic practices that show you're a cunt. Nobody wants you to eat the fucking head of your game, but why the fuck do you have to go and hang it on a wall? Go collect stamps, you fucknut.

Jesus Christ even if you documented your hunt photographically it would hold more merit than the bearfuckers in OP's post.

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>>753577
Pictured, autism.

Like it's 2016, who wears bear claws? He should be more secure in his masculinity like me.

>>753549
Why do you fail to differentiate between the terms enjoyment and survival? There is a different between eating food and killing for sport.

It is our natural state that we eat; this entire world is a balanced eco system and it is expected that we kill other animals to eat. Right down to our blood there is conflict; there are bacterias eating bacterias; the natural state is that all eat to survive; right down from the smallest to the largest creature.

It is a natural chain that is to be expected; there is no guilt in killing an animal. If I were to be eaten by a larger animal it would be nature; that doesn't make that animal evil.

However ruining the eco system and ending life for no other reason than sport and entertainment is just unnecessary. Are you one of those people who tries to amass material possessions to impress his fellow man? Are you one for caring how others perceive you? Do you try to have an impressive car and an expensive house and a whole host of trophies to show what you've achieved?

I could understand people hunting for food; for clothing; for reasons. I cannot comprehend why someone would hunt for entertainment as the primary motivation. There is something wrong there.

>>753600
>ruining the ecosystem
It's unusual for sport hunting to do that now. Farming, on the other hand...

>unnecessary
Indeed

>Are you one of those people who tries to amass material possessions to impress his fellow man? Are you one for caring how others perceive you? Do you try to have an impressive car and an expensive house and a whole host of trophies to show what you've achieved?
How did we go from enjoying hunting to what people think of me? Most of my friends haven't seen any hard evidence that I hunt. Maybe you're projecting a little onto a culture you don't understand.

>I cannot comprehend why someone would hunt for entertainment as the primary motivation. There is something wrong there.
>I don't understand it, so it's bad.

>>753577
>being proud of an accomplishment is laughable
ok, I'll stop having fun since you don't like it

>>753617
I'm not projecting Anon, I'm just trying to understand because honestly the enjoyment of killing animals for anything other than survival is alien to me.

>>753649
Not that Anon but I have a question for you.

What is an accomplishment? It's just something to seek approval from your fellow man right? If everyone turned round and said they weren't impressed would it still be an accomplishment or would it be a waste of time? What separates a shameful action that you'd want to hide from your fellow man out of fear of being chastised from an accomplishment that you'd be proud of? Approval is what seperates the two; so it seems to me that trophy hunting is all about approval seeking from your fellow man; and is just as materialistic as buying an expensive car or the latest gadget to show off. It seems childish and insecure to me; but maybe I am wrong.

Please explain some more if I'm way off the mark, I'm not trying to offend, just trying to understand.

>>751073
Oh fuck off nigger, you know its far more easy to shoot a bear from 100 meters than battle it to death. Stop pretending shooting is some kind of magical science where only the best can succeed.
Even if you dont hit, the risk of getting yourself killed is far lower than hunting it with a spear

>>751274
As if killing animals is the same as hiking a trail. Are you really that retarded

>>751280
No, Trophy hunting is not correlating with extermination. sure thing bro.
Its not the only factor in the equation but it is surely one.

>>753680
>100 meters
We arent talking about 100 meters noguns. We are talking about shots 500 meters or more, are you confused that long distance is harder than shooting your pistol at 15 yards?

>>751340
unsuited exptrapolation, the post

>>753549
>No shame in that.
Thats your opinion, i think its fucking retarded to kill a beautiful living being for nothing more than enjoyment. I enjoy animals around me a lot more when they are alive

>>753689
Doesnt matter if its 100m, 200m or 500m. I am not saying that shooting at long distances doesnt require skill and expertise, but it doesnt bare a lot of risks

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>>753671
An accomplishment can be from internal or external motivation. Some would say that aesthetics are another measure of accomplishment entirely.

To me, taking a large game animal is an accomplishment with largely internal motivation, because I've been doing this since I was a child and it's more like a return to that than the sort of grotesque murder-vacation many seem to imagine it as. A successful elk hunt starts months in advance, with plans for where to apply for tags, what seasons to hunt. When you get your tag, you then plan where in your zone to hunt and how. Success is more likely if you avoid other hunters, so while you're hunting you need to somehow manage logistics for getting into backcountry places most people don't bother with. This can mean backpacking, horse packing, or very strategic placement of a truck camp. Then you go out and glass hillsides and valleys all day, starting before dawn until you see something. When you see an animal, you need to gauge its size, sex, age and behavior to determine whether it's worth watching more or trying to get close to. If it's a shooter, you then have a stalk ahead where you're likely to spend a lot of time out of sight of the animal and gauging where to go based on intuition. Then, at the end of all that, if you get in range and it really is a big one, you shoot it.

That's all to say that there's a process, art and science to a hunt like that, and it's a low-odds game. Calling getting a big elk this way an accomplishment or enjoying it from an aesthetic and cultural perspective isn't a matter of blood lust or dick-swinging.


>>753685
It's not a factor at all in properly managed hunts, which is nearly all of them these days. Someone killing an old bull elephant in an area where they're overpopulated and tearing up all the trees isn't contributing to their extermination in some shithole where the government turns a blind eye to indiscriminate poaching.

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>>753702
Who says I don't enjoy both? I love going out in the morning and seeing the woods wake up, letting birds land on my boots and squirrels climb down to feed right next to my shoulder. I get to see cormorants and then geese head for the river and hear turkey boom down off their roosts. I have conversations with turkey, and more often than not they decide they have nothing more to say to me and go on their way, but every now and then I get them to come closer. Sometimes hens come to see what the commotion is about, and I watch them, and sometimes jakes show up and try to be the big man on campus and I get to see a gobbler chase them off or hens reject them. Sometimes a big tom turkey and shows up, gobbling so loud it makes your heart race every time and strutting like a general. Then I kill and eat him and keep their spurs to look at later.

All the animals have to be alive for that to happen, so I'm pretty heavily motivated to make sure those populations remain strong.

>>753682
One is ostensibly non-consumptive (though popular hiking areas easily become overcrowded and disrupt wildlife) and the other is sustainably consumptive and can provide heavy incentive to keep wild places uncrowded. So no, they're not the same, but I don't see your point.

>>753706
Not him but I don't see why all of a sudden only dangerous things are worthwhile.

>>753649
You read "being proud of an accomplishment is laughable" when I literally said:

"It's not the action of hunting or taking pride in it that's making this so damn laughable"

Can you even read?

>>753750
>i kill animals because I like to live in the past

Hedonists will say anything to persuade themselves that they are right to chase their little pleasures and avoid their little discomfort.

>>750836
Hunting for meat, fur etc is alright by me but trophy hunting isn't.

>>753463
>You can hunt for food, a lot of people do.
No you can't.
You can pay money for the privilege of hunting. Food is a trophy, just like the head.

Subsistence hunting is considered poaching in 99% of the world.

>>754038
Kek oh no Nietzsche! Yes, I enjoy a thing that harms you in no way and would like to continue enjoying that thing. I'm sure you enjoy your own things that harm me in no way. Nietzsche saying that the last men will also like things has little to do with what we're talking about.

>>750836
No it´s degenerate and stupid

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>>754399
>degenerate

>>754410
>some used one of my trigger words!
Goddamn this website is shit now.

>>754063
I wonder if some counties have cheap/free tickets for poor people. I think our local food bank will process a kill.

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>>754428
In my state you can fish with simple tackle from the bank in your home county without a permit, and it's like ten dollars to get small game hunting access to public lands as well as fishing rights on state-run ponds for the year.

My deer processor will process donations to the food bank for a reduced rate, but I've never done it because I personally know enough hard-up people who can use the meat. I put two or three deer in the freezer and then everything after that is given away to folks who need it.

>>754418
You're the one using nonsense-words to pretend that your personal distaste for something constitutes a compelling moral condemnation.

>>754447
Just because you made the conscious decision of using high-register vocabulary, doesn't mean you can look down on other anons, newfriend.

You're getting angry because someone used a word you don't like. I don't think you're in the right here.

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>>754453
You're really not as smart as you think you are.

"Degenerate" is not a word in common use by less-educated people. It's not low register, and in fact it's a high-register word typically used by angry people to condemn things they don't like while hoping that their use of big words will make them seem legitimate. It's what you get when people who aren't actually well educated but know that educated people get respect try to ape talking like they know anything. In this specific instance, it was used exactly that way, to say nothing at all but express distaste.

So no, it's not that he's using a dumb word, but that he used it to say nothing at all.

>>754467
>It's what you get when people who aren't actually well educated but know that educated people get respect try to ape talking like they know anything.

Some oral flatulence here mate.

Point still stands that he used it in a perfectly acceptable, gramatically correct sentence where the actual definition of the word also applies just fine.

You're still just angry because you don't like the word, that's why you're making assumptions about him.

>>754484
>valid grammar means it's a valid or compelling statement
If you ever formally study logic, one of the first things you'll learn is that the above statement is false. The content of the sentence matters. The content in this case being "I don't like it and it's bad because ___"

>>754486
>"It's degenerate"

How is trophy hunting not degenerate, and objectively a lesser form of hunting than, you know, actual regular hunting without all these half-assed cries for attention?

After all, you're the one calling him out on his bullshit. How is he wrong?

>If you ever formally study logic heh eheheh hehe
If you ever formally study a mirror you'll see you're a stuck up cunt.

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>>754490
Just FYI, the real Socrates was generally more a fan of subtle, dry mockery rather than the "you're a cunt" type.

Maybe you should tell me about actual regular hunting and explain to >>753586 how displaying the fruits of your hunt is degenerate. Well-defined terms make these talks so much more clear.

>>750860

If people didnt pay to hunt places like africa would essentially have no animals left because the niggers would eat them all within a few years

There are hundreds of previously endangered animals which are now common as muck because people breed them to sell to hunters

>>754934
>breed them to sell to hunters
That's a thing in South Africa mostly. In other places it's more a matter of leaving potentially arable or grazing land unused so the animals can live there.

>>751070

People here dont understand how stupid niggers are, they will literally kill every animal in africa and then look around when theyre all dead like they didnt see it coming

>>751462

What a stupid comment

>>751470

Oh right now I get it, your just an idiot

>>754493
Just FYI, why would I give a shit.

The burden of proof doesn't lie with me. You're the one getting butt-mad at that bloke just because he said "degenerate". Don't try to back-track now, you were doing so well digging that grave,

>>751412
I notice that all the greenies are happily ignoring this post as they aint got shit to counter it

>>751413
>and I guarantee you he's spent more time above 12,000 feet than you.
>Nope, I hike at 4k every weekend. I'm in Southamerica.

apparently 4,000>12,000

>>750854
>Hemmingway
>mm
I don't really care for Hemingway, but I see why you need to die. I think it's funny to shoot at hunters when /out/. they think it's other hunters, then never come back to the area.

#problemssolved

>>755072
He's obviously using metric system anon. I wonder what is your nationality...

>>751677

how embarassing

>>754936

All over africa

It is especially big in SA though

>>750836
Personally, I have done a fair amount of hunting. At first i enjoyed it, but after a while I decided that i was not really cooperating with the ecosystem.

I felt like, as a predator, I can help the species I prey upon by taking out the stupid, sickly, and old.

I felt like trying to kill the biggest, healthiest examples thins the gene pool, which may be why things like Chronic Wasting Disease has become so prevalent, And was just about my ego.

Nowadays, i just hunt for food and rarely at that.

>>755171
Trophy-sized animals are typically older specimens though. In Namibia, the highest record-book category is for animals not only of a certain size, but that are also aged at least ten years. Whitetail deer in the wild rarely have natural lifespans long enough to see their antlers decline in size due to age.

>>750836
its dumb if you're standing in a tree 20ft up and literally just waiting for a bear to come alone to pop it and then do fuck all with it beside take a picture to put on fb

>>755180
>t. guy who's never actually done that before

>>754977
The real Socrates was a cool guy who had interesting discussion about interesting topics. You're besmirching his name.

>>755171
Being older does not mean they cant breed, and being large and being aesthetically pleasing means that they are healthy.

These are the specimens i would like to keep in the gene pool, so they have lots of healthy progeny and increase the overall well being of the group.

This is just how i feel personally though.

i think the biggest,

>>755207
*Ignore my typo at the bottom there.

>>755207
This was meant for
>>755176

Man, I'm really cooking with gas today!

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>>755207
Read up on whitetail management (I appreciate that you just don't get a kick out of shooting big ones, so this is really just for the sake of learning, and not an insult). You're not the first person to realize that this is a potential issue, but there are solutions that include and promote harvesting big animals within certain parameters.

If you don't hunt an area managed according to those principals, or just don't like shooting big bucks, then that's different.

>>750860
>Black bears
>Going extinct

Maybe you should fuck off?

To all the hunters who spend a lot of time in nature around wild animals , im curious. Do you believe that all wild mammals are capable of emotions such as affection like domesticated dogs are? Do different animals have varying levels of affection/attatchment to other animals in their pack? Do you think more solitary animals are sociopathic? This stuff is interesting to me and I'd like to hear opinions from people who actually spend time around these animals

>>755663
How old are you. mammals are programmed for affection you dip

>>755663
lel, I just answered this on /k/

I don't think ungulates like deer and elk do. Their social structures are quite loose and even mother-child bonding is a bit tenuous once the fawn is weaned.

Pack animals like wolves are the most likely candidates. Don't know about solitary predators since they're more intelligent than herbivores but also solitary killers.

I've seen deer proceed to graze next to the dead body of an animal they were just travelling with, so I don't think they're all to bright or sophisticated in that regard.

>>755675
>I've seen deer proceed to graze next to the dead body of an animal they were just travelling with,
Can confirm. However, you are projecting. They don't confront death like we do. Affection is "a something" that we all know, but we can not define.

>>755440
Black bear bacon is so fucking good. I, for one, would be super sad if they extinct.

>>755663
/sci/ here,
most animals are incapable of comprehending their own lives, and are only able to gain familiarity with their surroundings and 'things' within it.
When you see animals in herds, it's because they are by nature raised to be in numbers, not because of some inherent bonding between the animals (most of the time).
For example, an antelope doesn't feel any attachment to other antelopes in its pack. If it did, it would care (show distress or otherwise) if others were lost or attacked, which we have never observed.

>>750860

>bears dwindling

wew lad

I'm no peta guy, but that's simply not true. Anyone who has owned intelligent breeds of dogs would be able to tell you that they possess reasoning skills and behave in a way that surpasses natural instinct that would only be possible if they were self aware of themselves.

>>750860
>>751271

Humans in North America have been hunting bears, wolves and other apex predators for the last 14,000 years give or take, depending on which archaeologist you talk to. Humans have been hunting anything edible in Africa since, well, humans became humans. We're talking a timescale of hundreds of thousands of years. A limited take is not the same thing as wiping out a species, it's not bad for an ecosystem, and it's not even necessarily bad for the species being hunted.

Regulation of predator numbers through monitored hunting can help prevent those populations from going into overshoot. A good example of this is in the Yellowstone states where reintroduced wolves exploded in number. While the reintroduction of wolves certainly had a tremendous net benefit to the biodiversity of the region, wolf densities are now much higher than the target levels that state biologists had intended. Predators enter into a cyclic relationship with their prey populations, as I'm sure you already know; they eat everything they can eat until prey density drops below the level required to sustain their needs, and then they die off. Predator management is not the same as extermination, all you're doing is regulating the population once it reaches a certain density.

Removal of old male animals in a polygynous species can result in important genetic turnover, especially in small, genetically isolated populations that are being carefully managed for recovery or have recently been reintroduced. See: black rhino hunting controversy in Zamibia.

Modern, regulated hunting is not driving these animals to extinction. Market poaching is a threat for some species particularly in Africa and Asia. Habitat loss due to agriculture, logging, mining, and energy exploration is the biggest threat to most of them. Value as game animals provides a valuable incentive for conservation, this is demonstrable and evident everywhere legal, recreational hunting is allowed.

>>750850

>ears off to the side
>dat blocky face
>dat forehead crease

Bears are tough to judge but that one is looking fine as fuck.

>>750860
>>751271

con't from >>755754

You both talk about how predators regulate prey animals under them and thus balance the ecosystems they live in. That's absolutely true, but the fact is that since the dawn of the holocene at the latest, the dominant predator everywhere has been us. We regulate everything under us in the food chain, and we do our best to regulate our own hunting if not our own population (unfortunately).

If we all stopped hunting tomorrow, it would be akin to removing the wolves, or the bears or the lions. It would represent a significant ecological shift from the "status quo" if there is such a thing in ecology.

>>755752
I think it's likely that dogs have a little something going on up there, but it's hard to be sure because they consistently seem to fail the red dot test and a lot of the things they do that appeal to us could easily be a case of the two species adapting to work better together and us projection our on nature onto them.

Nah that's really scummy.

It's like starting fights with babies and then beating them to death to prove how tough you are.

Just leave them alone and shoot people if you want to be a tough guy.

>>750964
You ever hunted without a gun boy?

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>>755809
I wonder who could be behind that post.

>>755809
It's interesting that anti-hunters always assume hunters do what they do to prove they're tough. That's pretty far removed from reality in my experience, since the thing anti-hunters also get right is that most hunts don't require much toughness unless you just brought the wrong gear.

>>756091
Of course there are people that doesn't like it or does not see the need for it, but most of /ou/ is ok with hunting. What triggers /out/ as demonstrated by this thread is trophy hunting, unless you eat or put to good use the animal you killed; if you do that you can mount the head where you want to.

>>755719
Let see some links there mr /sci/entist.

>>756091
I would just say that the high-end hunting crowd is full of "tough guys" and that is whats on tv so that is what people who dont hunt get exposed to.

Last fall i was hiking all around the Sangre de Cristo range. All these fuck yeah 'murica middle class rednecks rolling around in $40K side-by-sides drunk AF and getting dragged to stands by their guides.

I hunt, mostly just for food and to keep sharp. For those guys, its all about their egos.

I would hate them more, but they hemorrhage money while they are in town and i know people that make their year in that month the turds are around.

>>751615
exactly!

>>756113
>>756104
I guess these kinds of lazy, wasteful shitbirds just don't run in my circles. I know a lot of rich guys who hunt all over the place, but they're more the DIY type. Like it's pretty common for them to have their own place where they hunt deer, and a friend with a ranch where they go for elk, or five friends in five states where they hunt turkey the entire season, or a guy with a float plane in Alaska who'll drop them off somewhere. When the guys I know hire guides it's pretty much only when required by law, like sheep in Alaska or hunting in any third-world country.

They're definitely "trophy hunting" in the sense that they usually pass on smaller specimens, but they do generally recover the carcass.

I don't doubt that the gross type of hunter exists. I hear stories about them from guys who live out west, but I guess I've always assumed they were an ugly minority.

>>750860
Isn't trophy hunting done to benefit the ecosystem?

>>756167
Sometimes it gets fucked up when interest groups like ranchers influence the regulations, but yeah trophy hunting is generally managed to be sustainable.

>>750836
No, what's point? It's for guys who cant satisfy a woman, and women who've only been satisfied by daddy

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>>757831
What do you think people with big penises do? Do they just sit around all day and have orgies? Clearly nobody can enjoy anything that doesn't involve having a big penis.

>>754934
True, it is kinda ironic that hunting is actually keeping these animals alive.
That and all around tourism

You are going to ignore few dead cows killed by lion, because you know, that the next fat white tourist is going to pay you 10x the price of those cows for a change to go for "real" safari hunt.

This is why I support trophy hunt in africa as scummy as it is..
Another plus side is to get rid of old animals that would try to keep down or kill youngers.

>>756167
That's the ideal. Like in any business model, the idea is to earn money. But we know that does not always work.

>>757831
All that projection.