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Hello /out/.
Let's imagine that you and a few of your friends are sent back in time to the stone age. You don't have anything, the only tool you start with is your body and your intelligence. You will have to use bushcraft skills to survive.
After setting up shelter nearby a river, setting up traps for small game and crafting spears and perhaps even a bow or two, you want to advance to the next step in technology. You and a few of your "tribe" find some copper ore after getting to know your surroundings. How would you go about collecting, smelting and forging a copper or bronze knife with only natural resources? Meaning all you have is some stone tools, a fire, a clay quarry and time. How to you create a metal tool in the most primitive way?
Solve this problem and we can progress.
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I would make a birch bark canoe!
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>>659713
Current issue is primitive metalworking, not transportation.
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>>659710
Shit... this kind of just highlights my complete lack of metallurgy knowledge. I honestly wouldn't even know what copper ore looks like, much less how to smelt it into bronze.
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I will invern
t religion so all the retardamos will do what I tell them and make me a shsweeet pyramid to live in.
Also I will bone all the young cave bettys
This is what religion can provide !!!1!!
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>>659719
Fuck you, I want a canoe!
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>>659732
This is why I made a thread about it.
I can't seem to find anything thorough on primitive metallurgy. Metalworking is pretty much the pillar on which modern society stands on. Finding the ores shouldn't be too difficult, there's lots of information on that. Primitive metalworking however is nowhere to be found, and when I do find information on it it's usually only 70% primitive. But what if one only has a stone and a way to make fire?
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>>659737
You can't have your canoe unless you help us make the tools!
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>>659740
I live next to Ace Hardware, so you are dumb.
> select all imgs of kayaks
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>>659710
this is more likely than not will end in you dieing
1) the tribe you stumble into will most likely kill and eat you.
2) even if they don't they will beat you rape you and abuse you you will be their slave not to have any ideas about how things are done.
3) you will shit out your guts and might die from the untreated water they make you drink.
4) there is a good chance that some predator (long extinct and you know nothing about it's habits) will get you before you get to humans.
5) even if everything works out without modern medicine there is a good chance you die in a couple of years anyways from a scratch that gets infected or an other injury. it's also possible that the tribe carries some nasty they are immune to and you are not.
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>>659710
>sent back in time to the stone age
Oh boy.
>You don't have anything, the only tool you start with is your body and your intelligence. You will have to use bushcraft skills to survive.
Shit yeah!
>You and a few of your "tribe" find some copper ore after getting to know your surroundings. How would you go about collecting, smelting and forging a copper or bronze knife with only natural resources?
Holy fuck! The hard part is finding the ore in the first place. I mean really fucking hard to find even when you know what you are looking for. You don't even need to find copper it can be iron ore because I know how to make steel from raw iron ore. If you have the metal or of any kind, everything else is easy as cake. Just make some charcoal and start smelting then refining the ore.
The first metal tool you need to make is a spike/punch on a stone anvil. Not a knife. You use this tool to make you next tool, a metal hammer (a wood hammer and wood "tongs" will pass up until this point), then you make tongs and then a knife and you are off to the races from there. Better tools, better metals from there.
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>>659710
Copper is pretty worthless for many tools because it's too soft. For example a copper wood axe would preform worse than a stone one, hence most if not all copper axes found so far were battle-axes.
Tin is rare enough that it warentred extremely extensive trade routes even in prehistoric europe.
Ancient greeks and Egyptians possible went as far as England to get it.
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I made a canooooe!
I made a canoooe!
You bitches are still blabbing!
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>>659710
well copper would be apparent by the ozidation I guess. To make bronze I think you need tin. I don't know what tin looks like in natural form. So copper it is. You'd need to make a kiln first with bellows or else some sort of pipe system to blow in oxygen. Then you'd need charcoal. And a stone crucible to melt the ore. You'd have to make some sort of forms to pour the copper into. So that implies doing some basic ceramic works from clay or something I guess in the kiln. To run the kiln I guess you'd need to make charcoal by having some sort of rock mound that's mostly sealed and burn a hot fire around it. If you're doing that you might be able to collect tar that drips off from the process for future use to waterproof a boat or roof. Me personally I'd go get some magnetite or hematite and try to do carbon steel. I have watched a lot of documentaries on the steel made for japanese swords. It would be difficult though.
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>>660378
>make canoe
>fill it with iron ore from the red rocks across the lake
>annihilate copper tribe while they're still trying to sharpen their first knife
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>>660563
What is Sea Power, Alex?
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>>659710
>perhaps even a bow or two
you just "craft a bow or two"
hey yah, you just craft up a bow, super easy, lmao. I dont think you have any idea what so ever how difficult it would be to make a functioning bow that would be capable of taking down deer+ sized game. Nor would arrow/fletching craft be any easier.
Animal sinew string and forming the riser of the bow are unbelivably complicated. That alone would have been a feat in and of it self
>lol you just craft up a bow
>maybe a bow or TWO even
>so easy
just go ahead and skip straight to metallurgy. you found copper like a video game. boom there it was +10 copper. no shovel, no baskets to carry in, found a copper vain.
"i just started mining copper, i just found it in a wooden chest" then i started smelting and combining it with other metal I mined from the ground, in the exact same REGION!!! it was unbelivable.
lol the raw metal deposits to creat alloys were sometimes hundreds, or even 1000+ miles apart. or they were only in a few places on earth. England's sole purpose for existence was mining, for the Romans. Tin in England was one of the few places on earth, that Romans could find it readily available.
Op plays too much video games. /out/ shouldnt be a video game board
sorry to be a buzzkilll, but this thread is ass. its like.
>So you just arrived on PLANET X and you decide you want to make a warp drive after nuclear sail was too slow. you and your astronauts, have unified quantaum theory. How would you go about harnessing dark matter and bonding atoms?!
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>>659710
well, take your clay and make a nice fat pot, then put your copper ore in the clay fat-pot. Set a fire underneith it using charcoal and dried mammoth manure. It's important to keep a consistant temperature, so I suggest building a fire stand of clay bricks to put the fat-pot on. we'll be using a primative bellows of a mammoth stomach to keep the flame nice and hot. When the bronze is melted, and the slag rises to the top, we then take a stone cup on a stick and gently scoop off the slag that has risen to the top. Careful, don't set the wood on fire! Now, we make an impression in the ground long and flat, with one side bigger than the other. we make our depression in the earth as precise as possible, and stamp it down with flat rocks. We then pour our molten bronze as carefully (or hell, we "spoon it out") into the impression we made. We then let it cool. When the copper is cool, we can then put a shaft of wood on it, and then fold the copper over and beat it with a stone hammer until the grip is tight, and then we bind it with cords made from hide. Ok, we have made a dull ax, we repeat the process with the copper tools until we have a more refined product. Also, we better start searching for tin, bronze doesn't make itself, you know.
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>>659710
your question is essentially how do you make a furnace, which assuming your river has silt, you can make a clay one in time. clay furnaces themselves never being obsoleted in time
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>>661157
>you just "craft a bow or two"
>hey yah, you just craft up a bow, super easy, lmao. I dont think you have any idea what so ever how difficult it would be to make a functioning bow that would be capable of taking down deer+ sized game. Nor would arrow/fletching craft be any easier.
>Animal sinew string and forming the riser of the bow are unbelivably complicated. That alone would have been a feat in and of it self
I've made bows before. It really is super easy. Easier than making say a canoe. It isn't complicated in the slightest. The easiest most simple bow to make is a bundled sapling bow. You don't even need tools to make it, just some cordage made from vegetation. It'll look like utter shit, but it will work and it will kill. Arrows are easy to make, but take patience. You straighten them using a hot rock, to essentially steam bend them. You also don't need to fletch them with feathers.
Just because you lack the experience or see anything DIY as being "lol can't be done" doesn't mean everyone else is as incompetent as you are.
I agree with the metallurgy part. It'd be better to find iron sand or iron ore and make iron and steel tools. It is a lot less complicated than working with copper to make tools. But, if they already have the ore as stated in the OP, it really doesn't matter, use what is already available and go from there.
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>>661394
Literally no you didn't. You did not make a functioning bow string from vegetation. literally you did not do that. the bow was superior to a "thrown spear" or the "atlatl" because of the velocity achieved by the arrow. The bow exceeded/augmented the capabilities of man in both velocity and accuracy.
I could guarantee with my life you DID NOT make a bow string from fucking vegatation, that allowed you to knock an arrow and send it with more velocity than a thrown or assisted thrown spear. And somehow you correlated this with me being
> as incompetent as you are.
>Just because you lack the experience
it gets worse when you say
>arrows are easy to make.
not even remotely true. a balanced, true flighted and properly fletched arrow, the type of arrow you are going to need for penetrating or killing anything larger than a squirrel, like maybe a deer or bison in north America will have to be engineering perfection. It literally took thousands of years to develop this kind of technology.
>You also don't need to fletch them with feathers.
There's no point to continue to even discuss buschcrafted archery with you, because you dont have even the slightest clue about anything youre talking about. You watched survival youtube, and now you think this is a viable, real life strategy. You think vegetation will yield higher-than-human-propelled velocity, and you think the arrow is easy to make and doesnt need fletchings.
and then you call ME incompetent.
tl;dr what would be the point in making bow that doesnt sling an arrow at a higher velocity than what could be hand thrown by a man? Why would you create a tool, that does a job WORSE than the method it is replacing, especially given the profound amount of work an knowledge that goes into the process?
anyway, youre probably one of the dumber /out/ posters, but 'we' need people like you, to point our fingers at and say "im not that guy".
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>>661394
>I've made bows before. It really is super easy.
> You don't even need tools to make it, just some cordage made from vegetation.
> Just some cordage made from vegetation
you just find some vegetation. You just go out and find it. doesnt matter what kind of 'vegetation' you just find it and you just "make a string"
you just go out and make a bow string. you just make it. yep you just go out and just make it from grass.
>doesn't mean everyone else is as incompetent as you are.
>doesn't mean everyone else is as incompetent as you are.
>doesn't mean everyone else is as incompetent as you are.
you "just made a bowstring" from vegetation, and it you just string it to your bow and in quote "IT WILL KILL"
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>>661422
Another plastic sc/out/ BTFO. That was enjoyable.
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>>659738
ask me anything, ill probably be able to answer
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The most basic thing you will need is some clay containers. You build an oven with mud/clay bricks and fire something to be a crucible. You should probably get some skins to start making heavy mitts that may stave off the heat. Fortunately, copper has a relatively low melting point, so if you get yourself a a decently hot kiln, it should probably melt it (or at least get it to a soft point where it can be worked. If I was able to identify it as copper ore, it most likely had a high level of purity, possibly even as a native metal, especially since this is the stone age we're talking about and all the native copper would not have been picked up yet.
If I could get it to actually melt, I'd make a clay or sand cast and cast a tool. Otherwise, I'd just try to take the hot metal and hammer out the impurities with some hard smooth rocks.
However, I wouldn't make bladed tools or anything to strike stuff with out of copper. I'd use flint or obsidian if I could find it, or maybe even a bone blade.
In general though I'd probably focus mainly on doing a lot of pottery.
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>>661444
Nice trips, I'll bite.
What's the cube root of pi? No calculators, now. That would be cheating.
In all seriousness, though, I'd like to know more about glassworking. For instance, say I wanted to turn a small glass jagermeister bottle into artwork, using heat. What would be the best way to do that?
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>>661425
>>661422
Are you two okay?
In my area there are about 5 different plant types you can make good cordage from. The best ones here are yucca, dogbane, and swamp milkweed. It is really easy to make, it just takes a while. Make a simple bundled sapling bow with good springy pull and making tight cordage is really easy. It does look like shit, but that isn't the point.
Point is that arrows, bowstring, and bows that can kill game are very easy to make. You just need the knowledge and patience. I suggest you go out and try it sometime. You'll enjoy it. If you do it correctly, you can take down anything from whitetail deer and smaller.
>It literally took thousands of years to develop this kind of technology.
Of course. Thankfully, none of us have to go through that. The knowledge is readily available right now.
>Why would you create a tool, that does a job WORSE than the method it is replacing, especially given the profound amount of work an knowledge that goes into the process?
See, that's your own failures talking. Don't project your own failure onto others. It makes you look like a fool. I can tell by your nomenclature that neither of you have ever done bushcraft before.
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>>661547
DELETE THIS!
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>>661547
>>661394
YOU CAN'T DO THAT
you can only use bows that are premium made nothing else will work it has to be like this u can't make a bow on your own of any kind it is unheared of u'd die of starvation and is why we all know ur lying i have a bowtech experience bow in pic set to 70 POUNDS i so i can kill anything anywhere it even went into a car door no homemade stick shit is ever gonna beat that i bet u can't draw that much ur a fat fuck who can't lift arms u won't be able to make vegtable string holy fuck what even is vegtable string something ur mamas tampon is used for u gonna make a carrot vegtable string and fire ur twig bow and ur dildo arrows and it will snap in too and bounce right off that big prison bear whosegonna rape ur hippei ass stupid twig bow meet me sumwhere and i show u what a real bow is like i'll beat anything ur scrawny ass can make kid meet me sumwhere and i show u what it is like 2 be a man in the woods kid meet me sumwhere god damn it
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>>661425
frankly sinew is better for bowstring and was used traditionally anyways.
i have made bows too they were not very strong but they sent my mothers knitting-needles over the horizon.
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Getting past my friends walking around naked would be my first big hurdle. Watching Greg's ballsack slap against his asshole while he's chopping wood with a stone axe would get pretty fuckin old after a while.
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>>659710
>Solve this problem and we can progress.
Can't we just progress directly to iron smelting? I really hate to build a birch bark canoe and travel to Cornwall just to get the tin ore for the bronze.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuCnZClWwpQ
all you'd need is some sort of tongs and good bellows. and bog ore is plenty.
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>>659710
>collecting, smelting and forging a copper or bronze knife with only natural resources?
Everyone who knows fuck shit about metallurgy should watch this. These nig nugs do it old school as fuck.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuCnZClWwpQ
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>>661625
>This guy's got it. Clay is a thousand times more useful than metal.
Thats why it was widely used in the neolithicum. But OP wants metal. So lets do that.
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>>659710
http://www.amazon.com/Metallurgy-Fundamentals-Daniel-A-Brandt/dp/1605250791
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>>661569
gb2/bed/ Will
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYWGF8Hrkg8
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>>661596
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>>659710
>smelting and forging a copper or bronze knife with only natural resources?
I'd skip that and go right to iron.
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>>661157
found the "know everything comedian"
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>>661596
Fuckin Greg
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>>661617
ah you little nigger i was just about to post that.
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>>661157
>>661422
>>661425
>>661569
>Animal sinew string and forming the riser of the bow are unbelivably complicated. That alone would have been a feat in and of it self
>Literally no you didn't.
>you just find some vegetation. You just go out and find it. doesnt matter what kind of 'vegetation' you just find it and you just "make a string"
>YOU CAN'T DO THAT
Even fat, mouth-breathing faggots on youtube can make a bow with enough power to kill, made out of shit they find behind their mother's house "innawoods".
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>>662405
you can team up with the anon that made a canoe
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>>661471
you would need something like an oven (not a bakeing one(unless for jews)).
pliers (for streaching and pulling.
any kind of hard metal rod.(preferably a pibe, that way you can also blow glass)
blowtorch is optional
you got the tools? ok
first thing you wanna do is secure the glass bottle to the pibe use the blowtorch for this part
once the bottle is melted to the pibe stick it in to the furnace/oven. when its starting to become liquid, spin the pibe as to keep it on. after a while you can take it out and mold it with the pliers.
this is the very basic principle, diffrent techniques for diffrent stuff
1.46
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>>662962
God damn it Greg can you chop wood somewhere else, your balls are fuckin weird
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>>661596
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You aren't smelting shit until you've got yourself a nice defensible compound.
Goals:
Find flint stones, make sharp knives, axes and spears
Find suitable wood for a spindle and board to make fire
Work and fire clay, weave simple baskets; containers for carrying things long distances and for cooking in
Kill animals get sinew for thread and fishing nets, hides for clothing, shoes, bags, make jerky and pemmican.
Current Stage: 2 decent fishing nets, 3 spears, 4 days supply of dried meat, various stone axes and knives
Can now attempt exploration, hut construction, stone housing, trade with neighbours, agriculture, canoeing and shipbuilding, permanent coastal fish weirs, breeding rabbits, domesticating turkey or geese.
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