Paramotoring

yes, but don't count on too many responses.

semi-related, abstractly i love the idea of paragliding, but concretely i think i'd piss myself, then crash and die
>tfw mountain climber with vertigo
i can reorient myself by looking at my feet on the rock, but i'm pretty sure i'd be completely fucked the first time i got more than 500' off the ground.

>>1079065
Something I'd love to get into once I get a stable income.

Also, don't be this guy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgW5AXHovpo

>>1079216
I've been paragliding once, it really wasn't scary at all. I was scared shitless about it too beforehand but in the end it was a pleasant and relaxing experience.

Just remember you need take off space at the camp site and suitable weather.

Guy I know made a few videos and has been getting lessons and junk for para-motoring. Check it out. Ask him questions in the comments.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKGwwrpg3ok

>>1079216
>mfw vertigo starts at 5 meters height
>when drunk don't care
>unsafe to climb drunk
>mfw

>>1080259
The only climbing I do is drunken free climbing.

>>1079216
Cross country paragliding sounds like the coolest shit ever.

>start off with a backpack full of fabric and a hill
>fucking fly miles somewhere else because of science and shit

the only problem i have with this is that they are noisy as fuck, and i hate noise.
i've done something similar but with a paragliding, but just short overnights in not to far sierras around where i live (cordoba, central argentina).
i'm anxiously expecting the development of more silent electric motors for these beauties.

>>1081762
Planes and helicopters are even MORE noisy imo

At first I looked into paragliding as something I wanted to do, but now I think paramotoring is the best option. Once I graduate college and get a job I definitely want to look into getting one, it is one of the safest options for anything up in the air. You can get entire setups for like 7000 dollars, looks like something very fun to do on the weekends weather permitting.

>>1079065
Not really ideal for /out/. The lighter the aircraft is, the more snesitive it is to weather conditions. Sure the whole parachute side of it makes it a lot harder for a crash but trying to get a landing where you want, especially if its on a mountain, is going to be really hard. Updrafts comming off a sunny south slope just might blow you around and take you a few miles away from that lake you wanted to land at. Do it if you want it as a hobby but they aren't ideal for going anywhere.

>>1079065
I will try it for sure once I get my finances in check.
It's quite an expensive /out/ hobby.

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>>1079065

Can't be too windy otherwise you get fucked.
Worked for a guy this spring hunting antlers in the lower Yukon, he'd fly around with the paramotor and spot moose antlers and I'd go pick them up. Freaking heck of a time but it got sickening waiting for wind for an hour to launch. That and listening to him act like a bitch the whole time. If you let people around the paramotor inform them of the emergency parachute so they do not open it.
Dress slightly warm.

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>>1082568
Boss doing a reverse launch.
Make sure the runway is clear so you don't biff the take off.

Have a windsock to gauge wind for take off.

As someone with no experience other than lots of flight games and a moderate understanding of aerodynamics, how difficult and expensive would it be to take up paramotoring? Should I build or buy? What's the absolute minimum I'd have to spend?

We used to have those all the time where I live until people started complaining that they were flying over back yards and looking at people. It got real bad then they just went away. The responsible flyers were being seen as perverts.

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>>1082569
>flattop

>>1082967
This is my suggestion for gear.

Recommended Engine: EOS 100 Booster
>excellent power/weight ratio
>centrifugal clutch: propeller is still while engine is on, this significantly reducing the risk of propeller injury.
>extremely easy to start.
>one of the lightest motors on the market.
>easy to purchase fuels (98 octane) instead of avgas which can be difficult.
>Jeff Goin says this motor has the best throttle response he has ever used: https://youtu.be/M0XB0rPu8zg
>won't ever overheat at full throttle.

construction: https://youtu.be/fh7Z60Kb42U (note this is the EOS 100, not the EOS 100 Booster which has significant improvements, mainly the centrifugal clutch)

Recommended Chassis: SkyMax Expedition
>strong frame
>nice comfortable harness
>low clip in for easy weight shifting
>extremely light weight
>bag fuel tank like what race cars use which is actually more durable,

I recommend this motor and chassis (especially the motor, chassis can be whatever as long as it's light) because the lighter your motor is the easier it will be to launch and land.

In total it's 39lb, the same weight as the world's fattest cat, if you can imagine that on your back. Overall, extremely lightweight when compared to some 70lb motors, and even traditional 50lb motors. Every single pound makes a difference.

Look at the weight on this guy's shoulders and you can see how light is it: https://youtu.be/bhoNS0mKPhE

>>1083488
Recommended Wing: Ozone Mojo Power
Good for beginners and fun for experts, use this to learn how to ground handle to the point you can reverse launch/forward launch almost every time. Learn to control the wing, feel the wind's energy, use the force. Best place to learn this is on a large empty field around sunset with constant 5mph winds.

This wing has many positive reviews and has the highest rating. Tucker Gott has a video on it: https://youtu.be/zmyRb_uqUtI

You can also paraglide with it so that's a big plus. I would recommend doing this before attempting a paramotor launch.

You can purchase these things by going to their websites and contacting local dealers who you can call and email. Remember to contact multiple dealers and name a prior price so they'll be competitive., then buy the cheapest one.

Reserve chute: I purchased apco air's oops reserve parachute, in my size. I've never used it so I don't know how effective it is. Yes, it is necessary.

Remember, purchase the glider to your weight. Include everything. you + motor/chassis + reserve (X+39lb+2lb)

The main thing that's difficult to learn is wind. Don't try to fly in anything more than 7mph, in cross winds, or in a different direction. Always launch into the wind. In no wind conditions it's best to attempt a forward launch. In light/moderate wind conditions it's best to reverse launch.

Knowing how to reserve/forward launch reliably and having a few ground handling hours under your belt is essential. If you don't have the reflexes, the ability to communicate what you want to do with the wing, you're in serious danger.

Use a wind sock+extendable pole to identify wind direction and speed. The beach is also a great place to learn, just maybe not for your first rodeo so you don't get sand into your wing.

Once you got this down combine it with the motor and you're off.

>>1082967
>>1083490
New Motor/Chassis: 5k-6K
New Wing: 2.5k-3K
Reserve: 0.5K-0.75K

Total: 8K/9.75K USD

>>1079065
how much money does it cost?

I'd like to do it but I don't like spending money

>>1083789

>/diy/ a lawnmower engine bolted to a metal rigid-frame from a hiking backpack or old ALICE pack. Build carbon-fiber blades and order parachute nylon in the internet. Crash miserably and feel bad and/or die.

Don't.

>>1083488
>>1083490

I actually just found out about Tuckers YT a few days ago and that's what got me interested. He makes it look so easy and effortless, I like to think of it as a unique mode of transport too.

Unfortunately I don't live in the states, and to boot I have to content with the weather in South Wales, but you can imagine how great it could be with the hundreds of valleys.

I'm not well versed on weather suitability, but it is usually always moist and gusty year round. Regardless I'm playing around with the idea of getting a paramotor setup not unlike what you've listed.

There is a school/centre on the other side of the Brecons that's not too far away, I think I'll trial it out there.

>>1083933
I got recommended one of Tucker's videos a few days ago and now all I can think about is paramotoring. It's inspired me to actually start working towards a definite goal which is really great.

I'm a fat fuck (220lbs) to heavy to fly?

>>1083438

What's wrong with flattop?

>>1084038
Dell Schanze, the builder of those machines, is a bit of a nut to say the least. You can find him in paramotor comment sections having written massive walls of texts. Hes been known to fire guns and kick owls in mid air.

They're not bad motors, it's just sort of a spicey meme.

He's also mormon, and really fucking retardly autistic.

>>1083850
Walking across the street, driving a car, and taking a shower are all risky activities. You can seriously hurt yourself doing any of these mundane things. In fact, you can randomly get cancer or any sort of fatal disease just sitting at your desk on the computer.

As for the safety of paramotors, I have to admit, they don't look safe, and they're scary looking, but it doesn't mean it's a death trap. There are thousands of pilots in the United States with hundreds of paramotor hours under their belt. It's far from experimental technology like it was in the 90s.

In fact, I would argue the sport has never been safer with the introduction of carbon fiber materials and the significant improvements to wing design in the last couple of years.

If you know your equipment, properly train, and understand the weather paramotoring can be one of the safest most relaxing sports you can experience.

All paramotor crashes are in most part due to pilot error. You chose how much risk you're willing to take.

Compare this to a motorcycle where an instaneous death can happen because someone decided not to look at their rear view mirror.

>>1084011
I've seen videos of 12 year olds and 70 year olds fly. At 220 pounds you could still do it with a large wing and 175cc motor, something with more than 20hp.

Can you haul some small amount of cargo with a paraglider or paramotor setup? Say you buy a wing slightly oversize for your weight?

>>1084152
I was telling him not to diy it. You can look in /diy/ and see homemade threads on flying machine failures. I'm sure it's possible. Hell, i actually looked on ali express for a chute and blades as i was typing that. The point is, if someone is asking if they can do it crazy cheap the answer is probably not. At least not without sacrificing a lot of safety and quality.

>>1084223
Yes, if you can carry it all on your back and run a a few yards.

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>>1082464
It's not a parachute, think of it as a fabric, non rigid wing that is sensitive to changing air pressure and turbulent wind. Watch some videos online and you'll see just how dangerous paragliding and paramotoring can be.

I have parajet my cc number and was ready to do it, then it hit me, wtf am I doing, these wings ware very unsafe and prone to collapsing, I need to spend more and buy an ultralight delta wing trike. Their faster, safer and like the paramotor, the engine can be cut and you can catch thermals or Ridge soar.

>>1084622
Oh btw, powered hang gliders have significantly better glide ratios than paramotor wings
Paraglider/paramotor 3-7to1 ratio
Hang glider wings can go to about 12-17to1

>>1084626
You can't launch/land anywhere you want. Difficult to transport. Setup time is much longer.

And comparing modern hanglider ratios to paraglider ratios from the 90s is absurd.

Yes, a paraglider is more prone to collapse than a rigid wing, but nobody is suggesting to fly in midday thermic winds. This is strictly a sunrise/sunset activity and you shouldn't even be flying in winds that could potentially collapse your wing.

I've met a lot of people like you around the campfire. To you every other ultralight sport other than your own is a death trap and is inherently flawed.

What if it's the person not the activity?

What if paramotoring is safe and the mistakes you see are failures possible to avoid?

>>1084790

I personally think rigids are less safe in general. When it comes to beginner wings in particular even a collapse isn't much cause for concern. In many scenarios if you can't correct the collapse much of the wing still provides a stable descent and factoring in your reserve, you're gravy.

>>1085351
Rigid wings also take away a lot of the "feel" of the wing.

But at the end of the day I think both sports have their pros/cons, and they both have come a very, very long way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apq6Ub2Gbyg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jhd9ZLum0pM

>>1080259
I don't think you know what mfw means, you fucking swine.

Is there anyway to do this shit via bicycle-style powered propeller? Would be way cheaper, nice exercise and more relaxing without an engine whining the whole way. Plus, fuck gasoline.

>>1085736
>doesn't understand physics

>>1085746
If he doesn't, then neither do I. Elaborate.

>>1083933
Kris?

>>1085760
Nobody has succesfully made a human powered aircraft due to the high power/weight requirement to lift someone off the ground.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human-powered_aircraft

>>1085797

Not him, my dude.

>>1085886

Pretty much this, IIRC the most recent and semi-successful attempt depending on your criteria was attempted by Guy Martin. He got off the ground by a few feet I think but only for a matter of seconds, that's not shown in this clip though but it's later on in the episode.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBhj7aKYlxI

Can someone tell me if this is a good deal? I'm poor AF and this is the only one close to me. https://stlouis.craigslist.org/for/d/powergold-130-paramotor/6252883759.html

>>1088029
DO NOT BUY USED

>>1088309
is there a good reason for this?

>>1088314

Not him, but generally buying motors second hand is very dodgy. Unless you personally know the person or unless they are a certified trainer or recommended/trusted by that trainer then don't do it.

Due to the nature of two stroke engines, it's very easy for someone to ruin theirs and try to flog it on. You never know how it's been treated, if it was properly broken in, if they've ever looked at the plug let alone changed it or ever replaced a gasket after so many 'miles'.

So many things can go wrong on a motor, even in Blackhawks case a brand new motor will never cease giving you problems to fix and most likely not just the replaceable items to begin with, stuff like your piston getting funky or carb going awry.

Fortunately 2-stroke engines aren't complicated and easy to service, but every part has a durability lifetime and in many cases people pawn theirs off when it gets to the end of that life.

Rule of thumb in PPG is buy motors new, get wings second hand. Stick to it unless you find the exception listed above.

>>1089213
this

>>1089213
thanks mate

I have a feeling paramotoring is about to become very popular.

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I have a:

>pickup truck
>5 acre field my parents own
>just under $10k I was planning on buying a boat with but am seriously considering a paramotor

Can I take off and land in my parents field? It's roughly square in shape. I've had some time in a Cessna and I'm a flightsimfag.

>>1089213
Don't wings have a relatively short lifespan? Why buy wings secondhand?
t. clueless

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>>1089643

In any situation buying new is always best, but if you have to buy something second hand make it wings not motors.

As for wing lifespan goes the detriment to this is abrasion, moisture, UV, packing and storage. Assuming the owner has taken care of this then it all depends on how many hours it has as well as length of ownership. This is all information which is critical in knowing whether or not to purchase second hand.

The factory lifespan IIRC is 300 hours give or take, in fact it is also highly recommended that after a year of usage you get the glider checked by dealer or instructor if they have the means necessary of doing so.

The reason why buying second hand wings isn't as sketchy as you would expect is because of the vast differences in wing classes. Most if not all people start out on an A wing, a smarter choice would be a B for longevity of interest, but still A rated wings are usually the first purchase.

Once you get to grips with PPG you will naturally want to graduate the class list, most A/B wings aren't being sold because they're defective or 'on their way out' but because people want to fund a C or D. Once you get to that level of experience you may find that you never take out your beginner wing therefore it's better to resell then let it sit unused.

Back in the day technical innovation and performance was the main reason for switching out, so you would trade out before any wing deterioration would become prevalent. Now however it seems that we are reaching a plateau on how far it can be pushed so longevity is now more of an issue than before.

Finally at this point it really depends on the manufacturer, Ozone for example is one of the best in terms of quality, reliability and longevity.

So again whilst motors can't really be trusted, a wing is more forgiving. Ascertain the hours, total time of ownership, if it's ever been serviced and reasons for selling. If they're evolving through wing class it's a safer bet than say 'gathers dust'

>>1079259
How did I fucking know it would be Dell.

>>1082454
You, me, paramotoring.
Sounds fun?

>>1083966
>>1083933
Are you both me?

>>1089601
watch a couple vids from this guy, or at least the beginnings where he takes off. Compare trees and whatnot so you can gauge distance.

https://www.youtube.com/user/J3Cub2009

>>1089767

You feel it too, don't you?

>>1083493
christ alive

>>1089576
i dont think most people are brave enough

>>1092808

True, I wouldn't consider myself an adrenaline junkie. I don't even like extreme roller coasters let alone normal ones.

For some reason I feel totally at peace with trying this, conceptually I should be but logically I know how safe and reliable this sport is. All you need is just to get used to heights and don't speed around in low altitude until you're experienced enough to handle it.