Why does the government waste valuable resources putting out

>>1064436
Trolling aside, forest fire is one way of nature regulating the forest. Forest in north america need to get burn down every now and then for forest rejuvenation to occur and artificially suppressing these natural cycle will only bite us back in the ass by way of forest fire of several magnitude bigger than when they are allowed to consume the forest naturally

>>1064456
If people took care of deadfall and picked up sticks and shit there wouldn't be as many fires.

>>1064460
In a forest tens of thousands of acres large? Good luck with that

>>1064436
Too many stupid fucks build their homes in wooded areas that frequently burn down. /edgy

Most forest fires should be allowed to burn as many species require the forest to burn down as part of their reproductive cycle. Further, as >>1064456 said, stopping these fires makes them worse, not better.

>>1064465
Thousands of people are unemployed and can do manual labor like cleaning up dead brush in the forest. This can be temporary work contracted by the gov't and given to able bodied people for a season at a time. Easy.

Or tell people "hey, any dead trees in x area are yours for free firewood" and people will at the least get rid of the dead trees for free.

>>1064471
Who's going to pay them to do that? It would be a tremendous waste of money.
>>1064471
>Or tell people "hey, any dead trees in x area are yours for free firewood" and people will at the least get rid of the dead trees for free.
Modern Americans are too lazy to do that. They'd rather just pay to heat their homes with natural gas or electricity.

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>>1064471
You know who else still relies on firewood? People who live in third world shithole

>>1064465
Japanese do clean up their pine forest tho, by cutting down broad leaf trees and leaving the pine tree intact

>>1064436
Because it gets you mad pussy being a forest firefighter so youll never be able to get us to stop doing it

Although forest fires are part of the natural cycle of nature, the influence from humans leads to a pretty unnatural amount of forest fires. Maybe because forest fires occur so much more often due to humans, it may actually be unhealthy for the land?

>>1064476
>Who's going to pay them to do that?
Who is paying for the billions spent every year fighting, detecting and preparing for fires?

>>1064436
>muh fires are natural
Is wrong
Most (84%) of forest fires are the result of humans
http://www.pnas.org/content/114/11/2946
But don't let that get in the way of your romanticized view of "nature"

The government's plan is to take a problem and make it worse and then step forward to fix what it caused (with huge increases in budgets and control over Americans) whether that is forest fires or healthcare. Anyone who doesn't know this is either in high school or a college educated commie

>>1064513
Those are government statistics and thus unreliable and fake news

>>1064560
Most forest fires are arson

t. Wildland firefighter

>>1064456
I've heard this is wrong, at least in California. Early 1900s retards thought burning was good, so they burned way to much, and turned it into a fucking desert.
Maybe I'm wrong though.

>>1064563
>Needs mo money for dem programs

>t. parasite

>>1064436
The actual reason it the gov is in the business of selling its timber. Billions of dollars a year worth.

Oh, did you think those were YOUR trees to waste as you see fit? Cut one down without paying for it and see.

>>1064577
You're wrong.

Early 1900s retards did the exact opposite of that. They suppressed fire as hard as they could, which, over the next few decades, led to worse and worse fires because the fuel supply built up.

Regular fires are mild because they clear out a little bit of brush and dead wood. Rare fires are raging infernos because they tear through decades of brush growth and dead trees.

You're probably thinking of poor agricultural practices causing things like the Dust Bowl.

>>1064612
What if we brought back the bears, wolves, and pumas to help regulate the other populations.

>>1064622
California already has a decent mountain lion population. Apparently that's why there are so little deer around.

The eastern states could use more bears and wolves

>>1064622
Predators don't do shit when it comes to clearing out decades of build up of dead wood and brush.

>>1064634
It's sad you had to point that out

>>1064580
>hes mad that I get crazy amounts of government money for a very difficult unneeded job that makes me a "hero" and gets me endless pussy and 60 grand in 3 months


Stay fuckin jealous bitch

>>1064502
forest fires occur pretty frequently in areas without extensive human involvement. In general, though, those natural fires with a higher frequency are of much lesser magnitude.

There are areas of northern Mexico that exhibit this behavior because their gov't doesn't put a lot of effort into fire suppression.

>>1064583
The forest service sucks at economics and doesn't make that much money from timber

>>1064560
Journal artiles aren’t news
Dismiss them as fake news if they disagree with your close-minded idealism, but don’t forget that idealism is always in conflict with reality.
>>1064563
I believe you. Fighting fires is big business. Fire fighters and governemt contractors benefit enormously from wildfires. Some dude who leases water trucks to the government whole life depends on local fires. It funnels federal money into local economies. There is a reason they let Alaska burn all summer.

>>1064674
Logger/logging company welfare. Just like grazing and mining rights are cowboy and miner welfare. Some industries are crazy subsidized

>>1064678
A 2 man crew running a water truck makes $1200 per day on average

Dats some gooooooood money for driving around and listening to a radio.

>humans aren't a part of nature
I love this meme

>>1064488
I've been on a hotshot crew for 3 years and have only had sex once in that time.

>>1064511
Taxpayers.
>>1064513
>>1064563
Who cares. Let them burn it.

>>1064456

Occasional fires are good. However, if they get out of control they become a threat to communities and businesses. Due to habitat destruction, even a regional fire can be a threat to an already endangered species. So small controlled burns are best.

One problem is that environmentalist groups fight controlled burns even though it's part of good stewardship. It appears to be just reflexive dumbass politics. Then the land gets choked up and a major regional fire breaks out that really does do a lot of harm to humans and the environment.

But part of both major burns and controlled small burns is the need for firefighting resources. A lot of that money is just having the resources (including personnel) on hand and ready, whether you actually use them or not.

>>1064645
60k for 3 months? Sign me the fuck up so I can get my remote tiny house hermit shack started young.

>>1064757
Been living in mine 7 years. Don't wait for $. Do it now !

>>1064740
Thats your own fault you weird fucker

>>1064761
What's the training to be a fire fighter? I never considered it before, but I'm about to start line school to be a lineman because I didn't know what else to do. College just made me suicidal and realize how much I don't want to live that desk 9-5 life. Looks like I have some choices to make.

>>1064481
>japanese people per square mile of japan: 339
>canadian people per square mile of canada: 3

>>1064765
Google any private company that does firefighting and call them and and ask. If Canada doesnt do private then google their province or national forestry department and ask and get info from there.

If you cant ask questions and get info and find your way then dont be a wildland firefighter.

>>1064769
Thanks for the advice, I'll call tomorrow morning to some places and see what they say.

>>1064480
Or just village people with wood stoves and/or people with property in the forest who get firewood from the lesser quality wood they collect when thaking care of said property.

>>1064563
At least where come from I'd say accidents are most often the cause. Some people don't know or care that burning grass and various useless materials in the hottest, driest periods of summer is bad.

>>1065099
People are going to start fires because most people are stupid and with dysgenics getting dumber. The only solution to stop the burning is privatize the land and then the owners will have incentive to pave it over or otherwise minimize the fuel load. Free market you visible handed bitches

>>1064436
Let the forests burn! COOK THE TICKS!

>>1064577
Scientists started a forest fire for the restoration of the forest. It was one of the worst and most costly forest fire in that location's history at the time. It was super bad because there was so much other types of growth. The "bad growth" came about specifically because of the lack of fire. After the fire was over the area rejuvenated quite a bit and was restored better than ever. Mostly because the native plants need fire to complete their life cycle. However, the public was pissed. More frequent small fires help prevent massive ass raping fires later on.

>>1064436
>das rite, there "WAS" a spider

>>1065107
That's retarded. In any case, people usually burn stuff on their own land and it spreads from the area they are burning it on onto forests due to dry grass and possibly other flammable materials (such as branches or any other materials they might have brought to the fire to burn it) lying around.

>>1064460
>If people took care of deadfall
Yeah, there'd also not be anything to decompose, so there'd be no nutrients in the soil, so there'd be no new growth, and all the wildlife would starve. Nature is a balance, dipshit.

>>1064469
>Most forest fires should be allowed to burn
Yup. I happen to really like morels too.

>>1064502
>the influence from humans
>unhealthy for the land
And if we let the fires just take their course, there'd be fewer harmful humans to destroy shit.

>>1064715
>humans aren't a part of nature
Feral humans were, domestic humans actively separate themselves from it.

>>1065117
Hmm... Another parasite we could definitely use less of.

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>>1065144

>>1064460
>If people took care of deadfall and picked up sticks and shit there wouldn't be as many fires.

Not necessarily true.
I read of a study just two days ago from Idaho State University that concluded that thinning the forest floor leads to open air channels through which air currents can flow unimpeded during a fire providing additional oxygen to the spreading flames. Sounds about right to me. Where I live, they regularly clear the forest floor and the two most recent devastating fires were both crown fires, which would fit with exactly what this study concluded.

so you americucks managed to turn a physicial problem like forest fires into politics? Why don't you people sit and study whats happening and then take action?

The forestry industry in N. America has to deal with numerous uncertainties and variables project over long rotation ages (e.g.: 80 years). Imagine a farmer having to coax a single harvest of corn over an 80 year period.

Hence fire suppression. Yes, fire is a normal part of most forest ecosystems but it can be economically devastating. You literally lose an entire potential harvest and have to wait generations for the next one.

Unfortunately, fire suppression led to more fuel on the ground, which consequently increases fire severity. Instead of having regular moderate burns, you now have infrequent severe fires that can cover massive areas.

It's easy to criticize this mentality and historical management decisions, but you have to frame it in a context that goes beyond "trees grow back" and "fires are a natural part of the landscape".

Now N. American forestry is competing with the global market, e.g.: 10 year Eucalyptus or radiata pine rotations in Australia. A large fire can mess things up big time.

>>1065144
>Feral humans were, domestic humans actively separate themselves from it.
lol no.

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>>1065630
Brazil's GMO Eucalyptus goal is to be harvestable at 5.5 years (currently down to 7 years) by 2050 ("FuturaGene").

>>1065489
The US Government enacted a forest thinning plan to help stop forest fires. Personally, I think they should also make fire breaks. The thinning will only slow things down to allow fire fighter teams to battle it. Fire breaks would halt the spread completely.

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>>1065649

> let's live in the desert known as California
> lets consume shitloads of water than normally keeps the trees watered
> muh global warming
> lets criticize other states for everything under the sun
> tis a good day in California

>>1065652
>let's divert and steal water from everyone else around us plus water in bottled form from distant states

If it were up to me water and food would be local things. Like you'd not be allowed to get either one from a distance of about 200 miles from where you live. If you can't survive because of that, you fucking move to a location where you can survive. I think of this every time I see garlic and strawberries from California, when I'm on the east coast. I grow my own garlic and strawberries.

>>1065655
> bot being retarded in California is considered a mutation

>>1065655
Not to mention fucking almonds.

>>1065655
>
>let's divert and steal water from everyone else around us plus water in bottled form from distant states

>thiskills phosporous cycle

>>1065655

> I grow my own garlic and strawberries.

t. virtue signalling hypocrite who thinks the one tiny thing he does makes up for the rest of his pollution

>>1065661
Glad I live in an area that can grow almond trees. Though, I prefer black walnut, hickory, hazelnut, and chestnuts. All of which grow much better here.

>>1065692
I've already grown and harvested over $2k of vegetables this season and it is only getting started.

>t.

You should probably go back. 4chan just isn't for you, kid.

>>1065692
>Virtue signaling
>Canned response to spit at anyone who mentions anything that can be seen as positive when you disagree with them.

>>1065649
I'm pretty weary about eucalyptus planting outside its natural habitat. It promotes monoculture since it will inhibit other plants' growth and those fast growing rate would drain natural groundwater pretty quickly

I suppose it's okay if they've set aside a plantation for it for the sake of "sustainable timber harvest" and irrigated by water from treatment plants, but many countries plant them in their afforestation/land rehabilitation project.

>>1065698

>200 words shaming people followed by token I'm a good person

Sort yourself out.

>>1065695
>Bragging followed by ad hom

You are a mess

>>1065692
>thinks the one tiny thing he does makes up for the rest
>I had pancakes for breakfast, I guess there's no point in eating a salad for lunch.
Even small steps help, Anon... Especially on the stairs, you fat fuck.

>>1065649
It's good for pulp and other purposes, but the fast-grown Eucalyptus and pine is pretty shitty for dimensional lumber. Slow growing trees are much better in that respect.

It's bizarre to consider plantations that require fertilizer because the rotation age is so short and you're basically sucking all the nutrients from the site.

>>1065754
They often use clones, so when a disease that the line is susceptible to hits the entire plantation can be wiped out quickly.

>>1065835
It wasn't that long ago, that everyone kept a garden in their back yard that produced all the vegetables they needed, and because everyone saved their own seeds, genetic diversity from one house to the next could vary wildly. If one person lost all their beets for instance, your neighbor had a few to spare in exchange for an extra watermellon.

But somehow, everyone got convinced that massive monocultures was the only way to go, and because of that, we all eat plain cavandishes instead of delicious gros michels and most people don't even know what winter purslane tastes like because iceberg and romaine are all you can buy at a grocer.

>>1065845
I don't know where you are from but here in Slovenia, gardening is a national passtime but you'd still go to a store for seeds. I mean, they sell more than one kind.

>>1065835
Eucalyptus tree also poison its surrounding so other trees (even weed) won't gonna survive

>>1065849
Here in the US most people are retards that would rather throw money at a problem than put a little effort into fixing something themselves. I'm sorry I grouped us in with the rest of the world, it was unfair and offensive.

>>1065845
Well we lost that heritage a long time ago now the Amish are about the only people to do it and maybe some homestaeaders

>>1065854
We've got to have our swimming pools and grass for BBQ parties though, right?

God bless Amerifat!

>>1065855
Eh I have a pool and a big garden but I also don't live in suburbia

>>1065853
From reading stuff online, people in the states seem to put a lot of time in their lawns while here, everyone has a little vegetable patch. In general, people spend a lot of time around the garden. Even in the cities, people who live in apartment blocks own little plots of land on the outskirts where they grow some vegetables. I suppose the main factor is the difference in urbanisation; after all, the rate of urbanisation here is supposed to be just under 50%, but even then, much of the urbanised population live in "urbanised villages". Still, the size of our country prevents such "extremes" as in the US, where concepts such as homesteading exist.

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>>1064740
>tfw onnatype2crew with a couple
>tfw constant pda in the truck

thank god they're putting me on an engine desu

>>1065845
This has never been true and yet you think it has always been true. You are a brainwashed moron

>It wasn't that long ago, that everyone kept a garden in their back yard that produced all the vegetables they needed,

>>1065869
>concepts such as homesteading exist.
That's actually not true anymore, hasn't been for a while. It's just a perpetuated misconception by people who like the idea of getting something for nothing.

>>1065885
Right... because on the eighth day, God created refrigeration trucks and interstate highways. No, people used to grow food locally, and much was produced by the people who consumed it.

>>1065980

>everyone kept a garden in their back yard that produced all the vegetables

>Everyone
>All

You said everyone 3 times. Perhaps you didn't mean that. Perhaps you didn't mean all either. No doubt this you just make up nonsense to impress people. It's not working

>>1064645
sounds like you have it figured out, good for you mate.

>>1065984
Focusing on the definitive when the intention of the statement was obviously generalized just makes you appear like you autism rather than a viable counterpoint. If you think no one see through that, you should read up on social development, it helped me out greatly, it can help you also.

>>1065993
Did you major in gender studies?

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>>1065998

>>1066008
Don't be jealous if there were no bad degrees there would be no good degrees you are filling a necessary role

>>1066018
You think you'll win an argument by making things up about the other person? What, are you six? Or a politician?

>>1064645
>$60k in 3 mo
I know lots of forest firefighters and they definitely don't get that, even in a "good" season.

>>1066028
Because all the ones you know just do mop up and aren't even squad bosses.

Talk to a crew boss, or a hotshot, a smokejumper, an engine boss, incident command, saw teams, etc.

If you stay at it for more than a few years and you aren't a worthless meth head you'll start seeing that big money.

If you can fly a heliocopter or a C130 you'll see 250k in that time period.

Costs well over $2,000 per hour to have a type 2 hand crew on shift. The ones in leadership keeping the grunts from getting killed are the ones that see that money.

>>1066033
>a type 2 hand crew
Diabetic firemen? Fuck, America really has gone to shit.

>>1066035
Not him
> type 1 basic level firefighter limited experience badically your local fire dept
> type 2 advanced specifically trained to be inserted deep into the hot zone to form breaks , shit like that
You may classify it as something else though that is how we define type 1 and type 2 though

>>1066035
Lol'd hard

Type 2 is your typical crew, the crew bosses make upwards of 50 an hour, squad bosses are upwards of 25 an hour, and the grunts are getting around 15 an hour at least thats about the typical rate, on top of that you get safety bonuses.

Type 1 crews are hotshots and are much more specialized in what they do, their wages are significantly higher and they get significantly more hours.

All in all, if you're not on a dead fire doing mop up and you're doing initial or direct attack you can have a 140 hour week. The incident commanders know which crews are reliable and experienced as the firefighter world is pretty small so depending on the company you work for will dictate your experience significantly

>>1066038
no, in USA it's the other way around

type 2, training takes about a week, very easy, contract crews, entry level, mopup, etc

type 1 = hotshots and smokejumpers--more coursework, much more selective, more autonomy, more initial attack, and higher pay

confusingly, I believe it's exactly the other way around in the structural firefighting world

>>1066039
sawyers usually make a bit more too

IDK that the pay gradient is that steep, but I'm on a contract crew, may be different with gov't

>>1066042
I'm contract, as you know it's all related to your company's reputation and the skill level of you crew and honestly, how greedy the owner is.

Been crew bossin' for 4 years now. 70 an hour. Started at 55. It makes up for the lack of fuckin sleep.

Ask around, find the company's with the most revered reputations. Also helps if you're signed off on a lot of type 1 shit or have previously been type 1(hotshot for 6 years, ex military too). Not everyone gets paid the same, they really like to keep the qualified guys.

>>1066045
What kind of prequalifications are required? And do they do seasonal work? It's something I'd consider if it were only a few months per year.

>>1066039
Eh it's been about 10 years I'm surprised I didn't get more confused thanks

>>1066046
You wont have much luck getting on a type 1 crew without some good experience I've been in this game a long time, I'd say if you're ex military and have a few successful years as a squad boss you could start putting your name out for type 1. Hotshots usually get a 6 month season, can be longer. Often these companies do suppression jobs in the off season too, so it can be year round.

Give the NIFC a call for their advice, and let your crew boss know you're looking to start getting things signed off.

How green are you right now?

>>1066051
I'm not the other guy. I actually haven't worked in a few years, been mostly living innawoods. ARMY medical discharge.

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>>1066045
>Also helps if you're signed off on a lot of type 1 shit or have previously been type 1(hotshot for 6 years, ex military too)
nice. yup, that'll bump you right up

1st season here, signed on with grayback at the last minute, hoping for feds next year but we'll see how it goes

>tfw everyone's onnafire except you
>tfw base manager said you'll get out on an engine this weekend
>tfw still waiting

>>1066053
Grayback is a good company. Keep that phone on bro!

>tfw I bought 200 acres and took the season off to build my homestead

I swear I'm not wranglerstar

>>1066056
>Grayback is a good company. Keep that phone on bro!
yeah, they were pretty much the only one I could find anything online about. lots of little fly-by-nights with nothing but a facebook page with nothing on it. waiting for the call!

>>tfw I bought 200 acres and took the season off to build my homestead
mirin hard.

>>1066033
My background is forestry, I knew all sorts: crew bosses, rapattack, initial attack, type 1 and 2, etc. They didn't make close to what you are claiming, and I doubt they are paying very much more in the U.S. vs. Canada.

Provide some kind of documentation online, otherwise I'm not buying.

>>1066063
Luckily you don't have to buy it and I don't have to waste my time because of anonymous negative nancys.

Personally, I'm very sorry that you don't know anybody that makes the wages I, and many of my colleagues make. Sad for you, not me.

>>1066064
>Sad for you, not me.
Wow. You're a real prick. I would say that I hope you die in a fire, but... well, you know.

>>1066064
You probably make $30-35k. But if you want to live vicariously online in a fantasy, that's cool.

Don't worry about me, I went the research route and finished my PhD 1.5 years ago. I landed a federal research position within 3 months of defending my thesis and currently make $83k, and it'll go up quickly from here on out. I've made close to $12k this year just from casual consulting work, which I may expand depending on how much free time I want. Although I'm considering going to academia because I like teaching, or the private sector for the money. But my parents have a net worth of around $6.5 million including a couple commercial properties in Toronto, so I don't have to worry about money really. They just sold a house in Toronto for $1.8 million in March and gave me and my siblings $250,000 do invest/go towards a home. Life is good and I don't have to inhale smoke, friend-o.

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>>1066066
>Wow. You're a real prick. I would say that I hope you die in a fire, but... well, you know.

>>1066066
>>1066068
All this butthurt

You know, I've personally never met a fellow crew boss that made below 45 dollars an hour.

>>1066070
>getting paid hourly
>working seasonally
kek

>>1066074
>not having winters off for snowy (or tropical/other-hemispheric) /out/

also,
>bragging about how rich your parents are

>>1066074
>not wanting to get paid hourly for 100+ hour weeks


Lol.

>>1066074
You work year-round? Damn, man... that sucks. How do you take six months of vacation every year? Oh, yeah. You don't.

>>1066070
> all this butt hurt
The only butt hurt one here is you you make all these claims then you don't show or link proof

>>1066086
Lol I'm do dearly appologize that you thought my information was bragging. Many folks have a little person complex in real life, but your unfortunate ass even has one on the internet.

I'm sure you haven't learned this yet, young child, but when you aren't skilled, you can't levy different wages. All the bottom guys get the same.

Not so for the top.

>>1066089
> makes claim
Shows no proof
> gets salty
Just another day on 4chan folks

>>1066089
>you thought my information was bragging
>young child
>Not so for the top
Yeah, you're totally not an arrogant asshole or anything...

>>1066097
I admit I'm high paid, they could probably get along with paying me 60 instead of 70. That was my wage 2 years ago.

Needless to say I've no issue saying things that are true and I'm not in the slightest rustled by fellas that for whatever reason get offended by other people's lives. It actually confuses me.

Have a nice day.

>>1066101
I don't sugarcoat things, cupcake.

>>1066101
> I can brag about having a 16 inch penis
Then when people ask to see it I'll just tell them to believe me with no proof
> yep that's 4chan alright

>>1066104
For arguments' sake, we'll pretend that you really are a successful middle-management fireman... How do you explain your need for incessant bragging and now name-calling? Because in my experience, isn't only insecure people that try to put down others. So either you're lying, or you've got a really tiny penis.

>>1066111
:^) hey that's okay don't worry I won't post my dick
>>1066113
I don't speak softly to anybody but ladies. If you have the scroll button on your mouse you could make probably 3 movements with your middle finger and see that I only progressed my shit talking when you began to insult me for no reason.

We could have had a much easier going conversation.

It's alright though, as you folks have said, this is 4chan, which makes me wonder why you folks expect me to behave any differently in the first place. This is 4chan afterall.

>>1066115
> being so salty you can't read
Have fun with your d&d rp group

>>1066115
Yeah, man. You're never to blame for anything. It's not like there are several of us here trying to explain to you that you're an unlikable person or anything. The masses are wrong, and you and you alone are right.

>>1066118
1.2/10

>>1066119
Oh I forgot I'm supposed to care about stranger's opinions of me.

Fun.

>be in thread posting helpful information about my profession
>one loser takes one bit of information and says "liar"
>thread goes to shit

And thus 4chan will always be 4chan

Going to the bar, see you gentlemen hopefully never.

>>1066122
Well, that's why you're trolling on the chan, right? Because you can't make friends in real life? When was the last time you got invited out of the house.

why are wildland guys such tobacco fiends?
>brb smoking in the staging area
>brb smoking in the truck (there's a rule against this but nobody cares lol)
>brb dipping on the line
>brb smoking in the truck on the way home

>>1066132
Substitute for meth

>>1066123
>t. morally superior boring drunkard