Sell the national parks to solve the debt?

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>>1062484
>Assuming that private ownership won't cut down significantly on the ability enjoy nature
and why would you assume that?

>>1062485
Assume that there's a clause in the act passed to allow selling off the parks that orders private buyers to maintain public access to those lands.

>>1062494
then you won't get anywhere near the maximum value you're suggesting. and lawyers WILL find a loophole.

OP you're a fuckin idiot
also
>the national debt means anything
fukken pleb, get the fuck off /out/ you nature hating facist

>>1062498
Except fascists were pretty big on conservation. OP is more like a neo-liberal libtardian cocksucker of the ultra-rich.

>>1062500
selling public land for money seems pretty fucking red to me.

You all seem like fucktards to me with your worthless umbrella terms.

>>1062510
Not an argument.

>Gates of the Arctic
Wow, I didn't realize there was a national park way up there.
https://www.nps.gov/gaar/planyourvisit/basicinfo.htm

>Directions:
>Gates of the Arctic is a wilderness park, with no roads or trails into the park lands, so visitors must fly or hike into the park. Access begins in Fairbanks, Alaska & there are several small airlines that provide daily flights into the communities of Bettles and Anaktuvuk Pass, and Coldfoot. Most visitors access the park by air taxi or hike in from the Dalton Highway or from the village of Anaktuvuk Pass. River crossings are necessary from both locations.

>Operating Hours & Season:

>Park & Preserve are always open

>No closed times or seasons for Gates of the Arctic National Park & Preserve
>Standard Hours

> Sunday: Open 24 hours
> Monday: Open 24 hours
> Tuesday: Open 24 hours
> Wednesday: Open 24 hours
> Thursday: Open 24 hours
> Friday: Open 24 hours
> Saturday: Open 24 hours

>
>Entrance Fees:

>Entrance Fee - $0.00

>There is no entrance fee for Gates of the Arctic.

>>1062484

They should just legalize weed in every state, use that to pay off debt. In WA alone, In about 18 month period, sold over 1 billion in weed, with more than 40% of that being taxed. Between all the states that had legal weed back in 2015 (Not that many, think around 3 or 4 states) did over 5 billion in that yr alone combined.

>>1062522
>DUDE LEGALIZE IT LMAO SAVE TREES BY SMOKING THEM HAHA

Naw, its much more logical to sell off useless park land.

>>1062523
>useless park land
It is not useless just because some 1%er doesn't own it
Besides, as a reservoirs of biodiversity, these places are priceless
How can you place a value on 4 billion years of evolution?

>>1062523

Marijuana is not a tree, dumb fuck.

>Useless park land
Maybe they should sell your worthless ass, given no one would pay shit for a nigger like you.

>>1062484
Or, we could just tax the leeches of society called the 1% that underpay everyone, overcharge everyone for their shitty products, cheat the tax system, bribe politicians, pollute the environment, and brainwash people with ads, bullshit studies, and propaganda.

Also, stop spending senseless amounts of money on the fucking military and overpaying federal "contractors"

Fucking Republicans and their socialism for the rich.

We dont need to get rid of our debt

>>1062571
Whatever, Bernout. Life isn't fair, get over it.

>>1062577
Nixon would sound like a Democrat to you fake conservatives these days.

Did you always like getting cucked by corporate socialism? Does it turn you on to get raped by the wealthy?

>>1062579
>8 more years

>>1062580
>secret 8th person in meeting

yeah right

>>1062580
>fake conservative

>>1062484
I wish Teddy Roosevelt would rise from the grave to slay you stupid corporate cocksucking slaves for big business and wealthy elites. Absolutely pathetic.

If you put a clause to maintain the land as is then it's worthless to developers. If you allow them to develop it then it's pointless for the public to attend. Your logic is just stupid.

>>1062577
Keep shilling for the (((1%)))

>>1062608
Wow antisemitism? How progressive!

Implying that debt issued in your own currency is a problem.

>>1062617
>antisemitism
Fake news

>>1062502
Until the brown people move in to be "represented."

>>1062513
If you are man enough to go there try it. What asshole would they pay to collect 15 bucks every month from visitors?

>>1062502

>pretty fucking red

Remember when the government of the Soviet Union officially became the largest seller of land to private in history? Exciting stuff.

>>1062484
How about we sell your ass off into slavery instead you little bitch

>>1062484
Gr8 b8 m8 I give it an 8/8

>>1062674
How is this bait? Real people in positions of power seriously advocate this kind of shit. It's not a strawman, it's reality.

Why are you all so angry about a real solution? Anytime someone discusses anything you cry like chicken little. Selling off the parks would increase access and give you some of that diversity you crave. Think for a second. Name a government agency that does a good job. There isn't one but you defend the status quo for the park service. Go there now and it's already jewed up by large corporations, it's very expensive , lacking anything for those $ except more opportunities to spend money. So it's basically a tool for wealthy connected people to cheat the public. If it was sold off it would generate lots of tax revenue every year for the states and communities. Also it would give the lower middle class a chance to buy some land in the mountains

>>1062679
Access is fine. Too many people out on them as is.

>>1062679
The incompetency of the Parks service is great in the sense that you can expect to be left alone if you go to the parts that aren't overrun by tourists. Their budget cuts also give them less room to fuck things up. So the current situation is actually the ideal one. Fuck efficiency, that shit imposes on my ability to enjoy nature unhindered.

>>1062677
It's b8 in the sense that OP is posting it to rile /out/ up and from the look of the thread, it's working.

>>1062679
So when did a park ranger molest you? Show me where he did on this doll.

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>>1062689
>Budget cuts

Stop believing the fake news. The current budget is over $3 billion. It would be great if they just left you alone but go to a park and all the employees do is collect your $ and put up signs saying trail closed, program closed and sit around the lodge planning their next conference or assault on the common man

>>1062705

>So when did a park ranger molest you?

Every time I arrive at the fee station

>>1062484
>cuckservatives actually believe this

>>1062522
This is what I've been saying for decades, since before any states legalized. Marijuana (or cannabis, if you prefer proper nomenclature) is the biggest cash crop in the US. If legalized nationwide, and then taxed and regulated in a manner similar to alcohol, it has the potential to eliminate the national debt in under twenty years. Regrettably, there are powerful vested interests against it (petrochem and pharma, to name a couple). These vested interests have our politicians in their pockets. Top that off with the fact that our economy is debt-based (credit cards, loans, etc), and you begin to see why cannabis legislation reform isn't advancing more quickly.

Selling our national parks and recreation areas to eliminate debt is not a viable solution, as >>1062485 >>1062535 >>1062601 >>1062496 pointed out.

>They see me trollin'
>They hatin'
>Cornholin' me 'cause I be so gay and nerdy

>>1062484
OP is a moron

I see the bait shop is doing brisk business today.

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>>1062484
>Imagine wiping out 8% of the entire national debt simply by selling a couple of parks

Obama doubled your national debt from ~11 trillion to ~20 trillion in 8 fucking years.

Only an ignorant 'Merican would think they can get out of their national debt by selling parks.

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>>1062953
>Obama doubled your national debt from ~11 trillion to ~20 trillion in 8 fucking years.

Aaaaannnnd the shit hits the fan by 2035....

Guess you 'Mericans might have to sell your fucking parks afterall.... kek

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>>1062484
>selling Yosemite and nearby Sequoia national parks to developers could lead to a "$1.5 trillion bonanza"

Ok... so that pays for only ONE YEAR of debt that Obama accrued from 2008 to 2016...

How do you pay for the other 7 years?

That's gay

>>1062955
are we also gonna talk about the debt that bushie Jr plunged us in or naw? nevermind resume your blind obama rage sport, also /pol/

>>1063029
>Getting mad because someone insulted your pet nigger

Go back to /pol/ faggot

>>1063043
>drags politics into /out/
>tells people to go back to /pol/
>gets BTFO then proceeds to hurl insults
top fucking kek. kill yourself my man.

I think you're a dumb ass, OP.

Selling the parks won't solve the real issue of government overspending.

>>1062484
>China buys it all up.
Great plan.

>>1062484
Lose 8% xof debt that will come back in two years by selling something that can never be replaced.

Absolutely brilliant.

>>1062484
>solve the debt

There is no debt. It is just a money grubbing tactic by the government to launder tax money.

>>1062719
>Have an NPS sticker because I work for the NPS
>Get in for free

Feels good to be royalty.

>Lets completely ruin one of the only things our government got right!

>Lets sell off our National Heritage to pay off some imaginary number that only exists on spreadsheets and doesn't even really fucking matter!

>Lets assume private ownership won't complete destroy these pristine natural habitats! It's not like the NPS was created in the first place to prevent this exact thing from happening, and its not like the only reason this land exists in this form in the current year is because it was protected by the NPS!

OP you are a fucking faggot.

>>1063151
I just don't understand how people who aren't part of the elite could support something like this. How the fuck did so many people get so brainwashed to actively work against their own interests and limit their ability to experience the world around them.

>>1062484
>2017
>being a class-cuck

>>1062522

>just legalize weed in every state, use that to pay off debt.
>5 billion in sales in 2015

Do you even understand math? Are you capable of comprehending the magnitude that 20 TRILLION dollars represents?

I swear you pot heads are all the same. Taxes from weed sales will NEVER eliminate our debt. Hell you'll be hard pressed to even see it reduce the current deficit spending.

It's quite literally a pipe dream.

>>1063169
I'm confused, are you saying that you don't understand how non elites could support something like the national park system...or are you saying you don't understand how non elites could support something like selling off the national park system, which would subsequently be bought up by elites?

>>1063262
Hes saying he doesn't understand how non elites who are priced out of the real estate market now would want cheaper prices

>>1062953
>Almost a linear increase
>2000: 5.7 to 2008 10.0
>Somehow only obama doubled the debt

Are Americans actually this retarded?

>>1063400
Just 80% of them.

The only downside I see is all the rich people being mad that they have to share the parks with the plebs. Maybe more fossil fuels used as more people get /out/ but that only bothers the global warming shills

>>1062579


>the parties are more conservative today than 40 years ago

yeah no

>>1062484
Selling priceless national parks to solve a debt issue that would eventually crop up again in the future doesn't seem to me like the best, or even good, solution at all.

>>1062954
We could, you know, raise taxes so that everyone pays their fair share...

Just was in a gas station. Lame stream media was on. Headline as follows:

>omg wildfires in commiefornia
>officials worried about fire hitting powerlines
>really worried because they feed YOSEMITE
>height of park season

Selling doesn't sound so bad. Put the park out it's misery I say.

>>1063486
What is a fair share? Is it fair that most people pay nothing? Is it fair that people with kids have a negative tax rate? Is it fair that the middle class worker has to pay so the non worker can get free healthcare? Is it fair that people use the internet to avoid sales tax? Is it fair that the government taxes savers thru inflation? The government spends $20,000 per year on your behalf have you paid your fair share yet?

>>1063491
Not an argument.

>>1062679
>Selling off the parks would increase access
0/10 kys

>>1062953
>Obama doubled your national debt from ~11 trillion to ~20 trillion in 8 fucking years.
Look, I'm no Obama fan, in fact I think a lot of the shit he pulled was stupid, and some of it outright unconstitutional (wars gotta be declared and treaties gotta be ratified by Congress, bitch), but he did cut the annual deficit down to a third of what it was under Bush '43

>>1063491
Have you ever been out of Yosemite Valley?
The other parts of the park are way less crowded

>>1063782
>he believes the fake news

>>1062484
>Imagine wiping out 8% of the entire national debt simply by selling a couple of parks.
Imagine how much of the debt wouldn't exist if we hadn't invaded Iraq and Afghanistan. I've heard the number 1 trillion USD for the first year in Iraq alone.

>>1063486
>We could, you know, raise taxes so that everyone pays their fair share...

You realize that the bottom 1/3 of 'Mericans pay zero taxes? You want the middle class to carry everybody's burdens even more?

>>1062623
Now I see some crazy /out/ist living there and patrolling the area for visitors and holding them at gunpoint until they pay their fees

>>1062484
What a stupid fucking idea. You should be sterilized you dumb cunt.

>>1062484
Lmao
It's like you don't understand how much money is being generated by the NPS.
Look at Xanterra - they own every single lodge in every park. Hundreds of thousands of dollars pass through that company per year because people will PAY to see the Grand Canyon in style.

>>1062494
>maintain public access

who gives a shit about public access to a place where I get to watch chinese millionaires sit on their decks and piss into the world's most pristine lakes and rivers?

>8% of the debt

basically paying the fucking interest rate

and whatever other market bubble pops would immediately cancel out the value gained from such a terrible land grab

>>1064682
This would be an even shittier deal than the one Esau made with Jacob.

>>1063818
>only believes what president cheeto says

>>1062484
Only reason you have those parks is because everything else any good's been bulldozed, paved & condoed already. You think they should be sold off ? Your decendants'll have photos of you on their toilet paper. How about nationalizing the oil companies, confiscating Wall St's assets, or just telling whoever holds our debt to go fuck themselves & reform the economy ? Go jerk off to some dollar bills

To play devils advocate, I can think of several examples of private land conservation doing a great job and in some cases turning a company a small profit:

>Kaniksu land trust
Conservation easement of 100ish acres near me, one of the best MTB trail systems in the area, plus whoever owns it has a portion to do whatever they want with and another portion for agriculture.

>Patagonia is privately held and well stewarded

>Timber company near me that has a trail system
That one is a partnership with a local MTB club to maintain and build hiking and biking trails, day pass or a reasonable annual pass and its very nice there. A win/win really since the portion that the trails are on are marginal timber land for production but still beautiful.

I could argue it both ways but if you own something you take better care of it a lot of the time.


That said, don't sell off the fucking parks.

>>1062624
...no?

I mean, the ENTIRE FUCKING POINT of the USSR is the government owns literally fucking everything and everybody works for the government.

How else did you think they managed to cause the worst case of stagflation in the entire history of civilization within 3 years and had more citizens starve to death in 30 years than all other nations combined over the last 300?

>>1063486
>fair share
The poorest third of America pays no taxes. The poorest quarter of America actually gets paid by the government for being poor on top of paying no taxes.

The poorest third of America represents 73% of all medical expenses. The poorest third of America represents 97% of all governmental health expenses (medicare, medicaid, free clinics, planned parenthood). The poorest 10% of America accounts for over 50% of all childbirths annually.

>>1063029
Why? In his entire term he accrued less debt than Obama incurred in his first 5 months in office.

>>1063400
>"almost a linear increase"
True. This is not the same as a SMALL linear increase though, and represents debt accrual at pretty much double the previous 8 years.

So...yeah. Apparently you are retarded at least.

>>1064800
Private land conservation has generally been excellent. As examples I'll point out Ducks Unlimited and Delta Waterfowl, nongovernmental organizations that manage tens of millions of acres of privately held wetlands.

The problem is,
1. They're almost exclusively not public access
2. They lose money and require literally hundreds of millions of dollars a year to maintain at their current level, garnered through donations and membership dues
There is no way for privately held land to be all three of the following:
>public access with reasonable or low restrictions
>at least break-even on finances if not profitable
>quality conservation
Property taxes alone are outrageous, meaning the land has to produce money in some form or simply owning it loses you money. People are inconsiderate assholes and either knowingly or through ignorance damage the land, meaning it has to be maintained and cared for, which costs (a lot of) money. Quality conservation costs a lot of money. So this leaves us with either charging exorbitant entrance fees (hurting access) and being restrictive to minimize damage (hurting access) or shutting down large portions of it to be used for private enterprise such as development or agriculture (hurting both access and conservation).

The most likely option would be the government's current approach to BLM land: "oh no, private citizens do own it, we promise, we're just paying to maintain it and leasing the rights to it so they're not getting assraped on property taxes even though this costs tens of billions a year and we still tell them there's shit they can't do with their own land and it's still not really accessible to the general populace".

>>1062484
i dont want china to own the national parks

>>1063138
Reality says otherwise.
Please at least try to keep up with the discussion.

>>1063486
Or we could, you know, stop spending money on things we can't afford...
>b-but M-MUH FREE GOODEEZ!!
Sorry. No money to buy them anymore. Our parents spent all of our money buying free drugs for themselves.

> all the retards falling for the national debt meme
> not knowing it is gov agencies owing each other
> you are all retards

>>1064804
And guess what communists do with the land?
I'll give you a hint: they won't conserve it's natural beauty like a typical fascist would.

Yea lets get rid of some of the most beautiful and unique land in the world and not let anyone be able to see it so we can go spend more money on wars in sand land

>>1065399
> tell terrorist to quit being dicks
Problem solved

>>1065399

>beautiful and unique land in the world

That only the 1% will ever be able to enjoy

>>1062484

This is low-quality bait.

>>1065542
Then why did you respond? Hit a little close to home?

>>1062484
I hope John Muir comes back from the grave and kills you in your sleep tonight

>>1065551
Ask him why they paved over his woods

>>1063479
This x10. It's like paying off the credit card for a shopaholic. Next year, the debt will be back to where it was.

The govt has a spending problem, not a debt problem.

>>1065646
> implying the gov knows what their doing
Kek

Even if you got that much for them, the national debt would keep on going up and you'd lose a precious national resource.

National Parks are part of our natural and national heritage. I'm more of a fan of mixed-use lands like National Forests but Wildnerness areas and national parks play a fairly important role in preserving native habitat and access for the public to look at things they normally would have to go out of their way to experience.

>>1065665
>Muh precious plants and animals

Maybe if you virgins had families you wouldn't care about this trivial bullshit

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>>1065694
What does that have to do with anything?

It's not trivial at all, and you're retarded for saying something like that.

What are you even doing on this board? Go back to /r/The_Dumbass.

>>1062484
Its not how much you make, its how much you spend. It would be better if we stopped dropping $100k bombs on mud huts all over the 3rd world. That might help our debt out a little bit.

>>1065701
Or just quit giving 7 billion dollars to illegals maybe

>>1065703
This isn't an issue

Stop spending trillions on trying to get oil that's an out of date tech anyways

If we spent trillions on green energy or nuke plants, we'd never have to use fossil fuels as fuel again

>>1065703
>muh illegals

anon, our government will give lockheed martin 30 billion every year for the next 50 years to pay for that fucking disaster of a program called the F35. Thirty billion a year for a plane that barely works properly. Personally, the issue with illegals bothers me less.

>>1065703
How about shut down spending for both, dipshit?

Woah, did I just blow your little pea-brain mind? Faggot.

>guys lets get rid of the debt!

>by selling our country

>>1065726
Get rid of all terrorist and we won't have to
>>1065720
I agree the f35 should be shelved and improvements should be made to keep current planes in operation
>>1065714
Muh green energy
300$ per month for electricity isn't a good thing literally 3 nuke plants just got shut down since they will never turn a profit

>>1065730
You realize green energy is already becoming cheaper than coal and even natty gas in some places right? With more investments sooner we could already be down to a tenth of what fossil fuels give us.

>>1065753
> are you retarded
wind turbines alone cost 500,000$ per unit
> what a good deal , oh and they require matience that also costs a shit load , oh and we need a shit load what a good deal

>>1065767
Natural gas will be out of business in less than 20 years, would be out of business already had we stopped giving subsidies to fossil industry and instead spent trillions on green energy investments

Cry more fossilfag

>>1065773
> getting that salty based on facts you must hate facts like trannys hate biology

>>1065780
So what if it costs a bunch? You act like oil equipment doesn't cost a bunch. Securing the oil costs even more - trillions in wars. You hate facts as well?

>>1065753
Green energy is expected to be profitable within the next few decades with subsides which will pay off handsome until then so buy now, vote green to save capitalism

>>1065783
>>1065773
Lol, you think we're going to be storing our power in batteries and nuclear plants once we have hurricanes rocking our coasts every month and there's a mini ice-age thanks to geoengineering? Raw energy is an actual real thing that we can secure and protect in the form of fossil fuels.

>We're going to sell off the National parks to fix a temporary monetary issue, which will inevitably result in future generations not being able to enjoy them.

That's never going to happen, whoever publicised this idea is trying to divert your attention away from something else. My money is on another trickle-up tax reform. But whatever, I don't pay taxes, you can all obsess over this pointless bullshit while you unwittingly get raped in the ass.

>>1065796
Fossil fuels are going to run out eventually. You think that refineries aren't just as susceptible to natural disasters? If anything, they are more susceptible because they're mostly on the gulf coast.

Idiot. Stop shilling for Exxon.

>>1065786
> save 500,000$ windmills that break more often than cheap razors
kek

>>1065799
>I don't pay any taxes but fuck those people who don't

>>1065806
Pipelines, baby

>>1065822
I think I paid more in taxes last year than most of you fucks make in several years, and I support green energy and green energy subsidies. We should always subsidize future tech.

>>1065859
> i pay more taxes than most of you
i bet you did mommy's little boy always pays his taxes doesn't mommy's baby boy

>>1065859
Are you the guy who pays no taxes and then says "we"? Fuck off lazy commie you don't make progress by giving money to con men like musk

>>1065887
>>1065864

Lol I think I paid a hair over 24k in taxes to the feds in 2016

>>1065896
Congratulations,you paid your fair share but if you worked for it why do you want to give it to Green energy science expert Al Gore?

They're not for sale, the national parks belong to our children's children. They're not yours to sell.

>>1065903
I'd rather give it to him than give it to Rex Tillerson.

Don't you have a horse and buggy PAC to go volunteer for? Old timer.

>>1065905
This guy gets it, the parks are not for us so we may as well sell them and get some benefit

>>1065915
I'd rather give it to Rex, he wasnt wrecking the environment for no gain in resources unlike every green energy program ever. Only an environmentalist could celebrate using 100 units of energy to produce 20

>>1062484
Didnt' that EPA thing already make them government property? That is, they can be used as collateral/assets towards securing more loans and more debt? Pretty sure they are already past the point of selling.

>>1065931
Interesting, hadn't heard of that before. Can you give me some more information?

>>1065940
Nixon, EPA act.

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>>1065924
>I'd rather give it to Rex, he wasn't wrecking the environment for no gain in resources unlike every green energy program ever.

Found your profile pic from Myspace

>>1065964
Me on the left.

>>1065940
He's confused, they already are government property but right that they were pledged against claims of EPA environmental damage but that's only about $200 billion

>>1065964
Take your racism back to /pol/ friendo

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>>1065971
What, you get mad when people make fun of traitor-americans?

>>1065972
Rule 1 faggot keep your racism on b

>>1065986
Traitor-Americans aren't people

>>1065986
>racism
It might be racist if he were saying all whites are trash, but he's being classist, at worst. Don't you need to go tar your roof or something?

>>1062484
The national debt is not getting paid off. Ever. We'll either outright default, or default via hyperinflation. Or something worse. Debt is a feature of our monetary system. Don't fuck up our national parks just to extend a Ponzi scheme, which is what our currency is.

>>1062953
The national debt, on average, doubles every 8 years, no matter who is in office. I consider Obama to be a rank cocksucker, but the deficit spending is built into our monetary system. It's also built into the Euro.

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I am tired of the commodification of everything, of the despoliations of the world and the cynical grins that possess the supporters of such despoliations. That burbling idiotic chuckle, the sarcasm, when one is aware of the horrors that they support, but still knowingly go along with them. They're not the imagined redneck that sees the living world as limitless, mired in ignorance and traditionalism. No, these people that I speak of have tied themselves to abstractions, of things "higher" than the more-than-human world. The economy, the currency, "debt", "progress"... whatever justification for the continued instrumentalization of the last strongholds of vitality, of life. Anything will do, capitalist or communist, as long as the resources are extracted.


I get the realities of having to be enthralled to the economy, to have to work for survival, to have to face taxes and bills, and I'm not going to condemn lumbermen or miners for working in resource extraction, as long as they remain conscious of what it is that they're doing. But the beneficiaries of such atrocities, those that profit the most off of these schemes but can distance themselves the most from the externalities...these are the people that I would reserve most of my venom for. Call me a tree-hugger or whathaveyou, but I don't think that I'm the insane one for seeing the deep existential need that we have for the living world, as a species. Weeds and hardy animals may survive well enough inside the most polluted cities of the civilized, but without these protected enclaves of what was here before this land was known as America, I feel as if something is going to have to give.


I don't believe in some Gaia-esque entity that will reign hellfire upon the stakeholders in their distant estates, but that this can only result in some ouroboros-type situation, where our species will become more and more solipsistic, the ape with extraterrestrial pretensions, eating its own host.

>>1064810
>>1065367

Ok, so we'll go back to having sick and penniless old people dying in the streets like in the 1910's and 20's before enacting these sorts of social safety nets. Sounds like a much better alternative than the state taking 15 dollars out of your 250 a week McSalary.

>>1066464
Eh I make 10$ per hour and after taxes make 8$ do eh what can you do
> safety nets
I agree old people should have safety nets like ss but not Juan who just crossed the border 2 days ago same with things like food stamps

>>1066466

Feel free to go after Juan all you juant anon, I'm more worried about the states like Kansas who see more in corn subsidies than they do in education dollars, or situations like Alabama where the state budget is basically balanced on the backs of 6 or 7 other states in the Union. You want to talk about leeches to society my man? There's far worse worse than illegal laborers.

>>1066471
Lots of states depend on one or another for survival just look at ca if nobody went to see movies the whole state would break in 2

>>1066475

So it's reasonable that the state of Alabama depends on federal aid for survival, but it's not reasonable for a newly immigrated family to depend on federal aid for survival? Seems to me like one of those situations is a lot less costly to be supporting, and I'd rather put the pressure on the state of Alabama. At least the family who snuck into America is showing some initiative toward improving their situation.

>>1062484
debt = economy running in deficit
selling assets = temporary boost in income

put it this way,

if i am your landlord and you are my tennant and I charge you 100 bucks a week, and you owe me for a month (400), you then sell your car for 800, you've cleared your debt (400) but next month you'll be back in the same place.

tl;dr selling assets (especially natural resources) rather than tackling the ROOT CAUSE of debt (free market capitalism) is a false flag.

>>1066479
>if the feds buy something it's welfare

Back to pol lefty

>>1065812
first off, its a TURBINE not a mill. Mill refers to the action of grinding grain, hence windmill, being a mill powered by the wind.

(moron)

Secondly, how is a wind turbine comparable to a razor? And razors break? Your analogy is weak as fu.

And yeah man its for sure better to spend BILLIONS on nuclear power stations right? or coal plants, right? gtfo

>>1066482
> irrelvent
the debt is gov agencies owing each other literally all they would have to do is get together an sign a deal to forgive the debt

>>1066484
> doesn't understand the reference
cheap razors don't last long before needing replacing or just breaking altogether retard

>>1066479
> federal aid for survival
the state of California is not very different simply because without federal aid the entire project of building mass desalination plants would crumble

>>1066483

Yeah the only valuable thing I can think a state like Alabama might produce would be unpaid labor thru their prison system, so I don't think the fed is giving them my Massachusetts tax dollars for something they 'bought'.

>>1066487

And without federal aid, kids in Mississippi could barely go to school. California contributes more than it consumes and that's a fact that can't be said for much of the southern panhandle, states whose voters seem really concerned with the federal budget when they ought to worry more about their own states budget.

>>1066490

Go back to pol lefty

>>1066490
not really uncommon when you consider tax rates in cali are so high for what a 5$ item costs for me or you costs 8$ for them so not uncommon , also their budget says who funds their school program which is fed money, which isn't uncommon then you realize the tax rate is about to go up 15% for residents and 25% for business

>>1066498

Want to see what happens when your state prioritizes tax cuts instead of tax hikes?

http://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/politics/2017/03/14/democrats-sound-alarm-states-financial-crisis/99166228/

Taxes aren't a bad thing.

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>>1062484
>Sell the national parks to solve the debt?
>*lobbied for by West Fraser Timber Co Ltd, you foremost timber company, "We've got wood!"*

>>1066502
This is what happens when an economy is based solely on infinite growth instead of stability.

>>1066518
Ted was right!

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>>1066518
>>1066502

> Democrats getting mad because the gibs ran out.
>capitalism

>>1066537
The main issue with Mississippi and the Republicans in general is they're all for tax cuts, however they don't have the balls to actually start cutting services as well since that would hurt they're chances of getting re-elected.

The root of the problem stems from the fact that it's much easier to give someone something than to take it away, the Dems give people shit knowing that if the Republicans take it away they can use the issue to mobilize the poor to vote them into office to get the shit back.


>>1066483
But it is functionally welfare, the way the subsidies work is by setting a price floor, if the market price of wheat for example falls below the floor price per bushel, the government cuts the farmer a check for the difference and then on top of that they get a flat bonus of around 60 cents a bushel just so that people participate in the system, it keeps farmers from going bankrupt which helps to stabilize food prices but it's functionally no different than giving Tyrone a welfare check so he can put food on the table and not burn down the city.

Then on top of this you've got shit like the whole ethanol fuel cabal where farmers get subsidies to grow the corn that gets subsidized to be turned into ethanol and then subsidized when it's blended into the fuel, which is makes it shittier than pure gas both in terms of total energy content and the fact that it degrades rubber and attracts water which means your engines die sooner, the ethanol blended fuel would be unable to compete on an open market but due to the subsidies the taxpayer provides they can force the price below that of pure gas which only ends up screwing the taxpayer in the end.

But does anyone do anything about this, no, the farm states are just happy to rake in them sweet subsidies at the expense of others, at least for all the crap that Dems get about having welfare, their shitty states have high taxes to compensate.

>TLDR Republicans need to grow a pair and stop spending.

>>1065382
This post hurt my brain

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>>1066949
> Spending problem
> republicans
Pick one

>>1067167
It's not that they spend themselves, it's that they don't get rid of the spending that the democrats put in place but they still cut taxes.

>>1067199
Maybe tell democrats to quit putting money in bs like refugees who'll slit a gay persons throat the first chance they gat

>>1067202
Democrats are beyond saving

>>1067167
>Implying Republicans aren't the ones pushing for increases in Defense spending every year because contractors need even more ridiculous amounts of money

>>1063400
You have no idea about Obama's spending he came into office in 2008 in the middle of the a huge recession

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>>1062571
>stop le military spending and contractors
>instead give more handouts to single mothers, refugees, and BLM rioters

What did he mean by this?

>>1067395
pic related for you >>1067386

>>1067392
> the recession was ending at that point retard
literally facts kappa facts

>>1067401
It's a meme photo, it must be true!

>>1067408
You're retarded, the recession was just hitting as the elections were going on. The market crash happened fall of 2008.

>>1067426
> made 200,000 in the markets on December of 08 , keep going faggot it will not get you far

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>>1067417
Most of the technology you use came from military applications or private corporations originally.

Let me guess, you're one of those reddit bernouts who thinks 'science' is some nebulous concept that is just produced in science factories? Most progress comes from a motive based in profit or defense, people don't just shit out innovation for upvotes and reddit gold my friend.

>faggots who know knothing of politics arguing politics
read some evola if you wish to bandy about the politics of nature
protip: trad/fascist/nasdap governments are historically the most pro-nature to have ever exist in their time

>>1066425
can we just burn the rich for warmth already

>>1066471
>Kansas
holy shit have you ever gone there and seen the fruits of that up close?
it's my home state and jesus fucking christ it's bad there right now

>>1067665
So glad I moved from Kansas to California, Kansas is going down the shitter and the people there are fucking insanely retarded/obese/ugly

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>>1065728

>>1066486
I've never broken a razor, they dull and then you throw them away because they're DISPOSABLE, what kind of ham fisted beast are you that breaks razors on your skin.

When turbines 'break' (which they do with no more frequency than other power generation methods, prove me wrong faggot), they get repaired not thrown away.

>>1067673
Thanks for leaving paco

>>1067537
No shit, but you photo is so retardedly simplistic. You're acting like the military is some sort of science factory that just pumps out R&D while ignoring the fact that it's a smaller part of their budget.

>>1063782

That's not true.

There are a number of tricks he's used at different times to cook that up as a number. Some of them mutually contradictory. For a long time, he used one that showed that his 10 year budget plan saved more money than Bush's. But that's just by predicting that after he left office, his successor would enact deep cuts.

Then there was another one where he credited spending by his administration in his term to Bush's years (saying that these were necessary to correct Bush's errors and therefore were part of Bush's deficit).

Several times he didn't count "emergency" spending by his own administration, but did count such spending by Bush. Bush's last year was the financial crisis and bailouts, and Obama's first year was more bailouts and the stimulus. So he didn't count his stimulus but did count TARP.

Also, during all eight years of Obama, there was never a formal government budget passed, including for the two years when his party controlled the House and Senate. That further muddles the accounting.

The GROWTH in the deficit (rate of increase in the rate of increase) did decline under sequestration, when he failed to come to a budget agreement and automatic budget cuts were enacted. The debt still grew, and was growing ever faster, but wasn't accelerating quite as much.

The easiest way to calculate the deficit for a given year is to take the total national debt (you can find it on the Bureau of Economic Analysis webpage or on wikipedia) and subtract the debt from the previous year. If you do it yourself, a lot of the "Voxplainer" charts are revealed as flagrantly fake.

>>1062484

There isn't enough money in the land value of the national parks to pay down the debt.

In fact, if we took the top 1% and simply killed them and stole all their stuff-- essentially taxing them at 100%-- we couldn't even pay down the new debt we run up in one year.

The government is taking in record revenues. But it's also spending record amounts. As long as you're spending more than you make, you'll sink deeper into debt.

So if we followed OP's plan, then the debt would still be huge and now we wouldn't have national parks. And then next year the debt would be as big as ever.

The way to avoid debt is to live within your means. If you live beyond your means, even if you have lots of assets to sell, you'll end up deeply in debt in no time. Lottery winners usually go bankrupt within 5 years for this reason.

If you want to get out of debt, then you have to live BENEATH your means to pay it down. Do that, and you can get out from under even nasty debt. And you can do it without selling any national parks. The trick is to reduce corporate welfare and entitlement spending (social security, medicare, medicaid). That's most of our budget right there, and nearly all the growth. Of course, it's also direly unpopular even to suggest reducing the rate at which they grow, which is why countries would rather have their economies collapse than cut social spending.

(BTW on the revenue side there's potential, too. You could keep taxes the same and close all the deductions and loopholes and get a boost in revenue without much economic impact. The trick is that it's marginal rates that have the biggest impact on economic growth, so raising taxes by reducing deductions increases revenue without affecting marginal rates. HOWEVER, it's again very unpopular and also entitlements are growing so fast that they'd eat up all your gains in a few months if you don't also cut entitlements.)

>>1063486
True, the poor need to pay more taxes. Rich people have to pick up the slack of you lazy shits. I have to pay 40% of my income in FIT. Fuck off. How about everyone pays 10% of their income? That sounds completely fair to me.

>>1067935
>faggot making over $500,000 a year expecting us to pay so he doesn't have to.

Cry more. The government that you fund works hard everyday to make my life worse. You are a trait

Or you can have companies stop hopping through loop holes to avoid paying taxes and harboring foreign nontaxable cash

That's not gonna happen though, for obvious reasons

>>1066464
Harsh reality is that if people realize they dont really need to earn money to survive,their incentive to be productive falls apart. There are countless people content with "just making it by"

>>1062484
Kill yourself.

Venezuela did this with all our nature and minerals.

All is so fucking destroyed with mercury.

I go innawoods to get away from all this gay bullshit.

>>1062484
Who'd actually buy and build on Yellowstone? That place is a ticking time-bomb.

>>1062571
Better yet, tax everyone that pays no income tax a dollar. Just one fucking dollar.
US Population = 325,350,377
Est 45% pay no Fed Income Tax
325,350,377 * .45 = 146407669.65
That's $146,407,669.65
Sure, drop in an ever expanding bucket, but it's a start.

>>1065730
Nuke plants are only unprofitable because of retarded regulation pushed by hippies and the oil lobby. Pretty much everything that goes into a nuclear plant is considered dangerous waste, even if it has totally normal levels of radioactivity, but these fucking morons won't even let you safely bury it because they're apparently terrified of the disastrous consequences of slightly higher radiation in the middle of a desert where literally no one lives.

>>1065694
Who cares about preserving natural heritage when you can build big fucking McMansion in the suburbs for your fat cheating whore of a wife?

>>1062484
I could care less about the national debt. Nature provides every need, why would you build on whats left?

>>1062522
Our government is horrrible with tax money if you havent noticed. Colorado squandered all of the taxes on marijuana. The tax is 24 god damn percent! How do you fuck up money like this?

Capitalism can't last. Let it fucking die. Stop making /pol/ threads on /out/.
Kill yourself.

>>1062484
Private ownership is guaranteed to literally cut down significantly large portions of those forests. Things might start off well-intentioned, but people die, companies go under, and forests/land get used for profit.

>>1062523
>useless
Kys

>>1062591
If only... It would be beautiful

>>1065720
Go to /k and learn why you are wrong about the f-35 please.

>>1069460
Oh no, the forests the government would sell or let burn might be used by individuals, that sucks

>>1062484
Get fucking BENT you corporate shillhole motherfucker.

>>1062484
You should be hanged.

Having just visited Yosemite, it could only get worse under private ownership.

>>1069736
> /k/ - airsoft
> has a boner over MURICAN PLAIN!
yeah. when to prove a point

>implying Republicans are the party who sell off national resources

TR was a Republican, Democrats are the ones you have to worry about.

>>1062522
Weed fags need to fuck off forever desu

>>1062571
>buying their shitty products
The only thing you "need" to buy is food, water, and shelter. No one's forcing you to buy an iPhone, fucko.

>>1066959
Ecofacism is the most /out/ political philosophy. Bernouts like the national parks until they pick up that they're mostly enjoyed by whites, after which they'll probably be sold off to pay reparations to Jamal.

>>1067386
>he doesnt know the military is a giant new deal style jobs program

>>1072871
When I was at Yosemite recently the majority of hikers I encountered on the trail were White Europeans, mostly speaking German. I only saw like half a dozen blacks, and the few I saw were more interested in their phones than in the natural beauty surrounding them.

Also, shitloads of Asians at the major destinations you don't have to hike very far to get to.

>>1067796
As opposed to giving money to shaniqua and her 5 kids? Lol, I'm sure all of them will grow up to be scientists who have a deep love for the natural world.

Look up how much great society style programs have cost since the 1960s

>>1072873
Asians seem to mostly be there for the experience of letting other people know they were there. Hence the attraction to the most recognizable parts of the park and the incessant photo taking.

Blacks are straight up terrified of nature dude, anyone who's spends any amount of time around them knows this.

>>1072877
Asians just be tourists man the only place with big fucking nice nature and mountains is probably China but it's too polluted to enjoy nice nature.

>>1072882
Japan is beautiful, and most of the country is still mountainous wilderness, what are you talking about.

>>1062953
>Obama doubled your national debt from ~11 trillion to ~20 trillion in 8 fucking years.
>Only an ignorant 'Merican would think they can get out of their national debt by selling parks.


Agreed. Selling our heritage and history just o pay for Obama's debt is ridiculous, and it will barely make a dent.

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1.5 trillion will barely pay for a fraction of the debt, after Obama's welfare spending spree.

>>1062502
You're a retard.

>>1073678
>$625 billion on the military in 2016
>Welfare (TANF, food stamps, earned income tax credit, housing vouchers, supplemental security income, child tax credit) spending in 2016: $212 billion

>>1073702
>implying the military isn't just a giant jobs program
Like he said, welfare

>>1073674
>Obama's debt
Yeah thank fuck Bush didn't leave a huge deficit or anything right? That whole Iraqi war thing didn't cost the nation or its taxpayers a dime. Yep, uh huh...

>>1073730
We were still within reach at the end of Bush's presidency. He "only" added a few trillion to the debt. Obama literally doubled the debt singlehandedly.

>>1068029
>this old meme

prove it faggot

>>1073804
>dat revisionism

This is why you faggots lost in 2008 and 2012.

>>1068029
I'd be alright with people just making it by, it's the people that expect everyone else to pay for them that are a problem

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>>1062571

>>1062484
Yes, because we need more strip malls and people and desolation.

>>1062484
people should get thrown in jail just for thinking something like that

>>1062571
I unironically agree with this dweeb

>>1062523
Why are you even on /out/
Pea-minded inconsiderate subhuman

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>>1062484
>jews trick us into massive debt
>sell our last vestiges of Aryan wisdom and tradition to chinese and Saudis

Just turn us into soulless Golem with the last magic incantation already
4th Reich when

This thread is the reason kids hang themselves on facebook live.

>>1062571
War is the only US tradition and you want to take it away from them? Monster.

>>1076491
Doubt it.

>>1062484
You clearly don't understand the (((US monetary system)))

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>sell parks
>private companies fuck them up
>ask for gibs to the government
>government has to save nature
>government has now more debts and no parks

>>1077404
The only thing that would ever happen

Not a single argument against this?

>>1062484
Just sell America's black people and then we can still enjoy our parks and once again beaches can be enjoyable.
(Yes I'm from pol)

Why in the hell hasn't this thread been archived yet...

>>1062484
1.5 trillion isn't enough

>>1062484
i would gladly pay the average $5 to $10 an acre my great grandfather received for the land he sold in the great smoky mountains.
i have to pay if i wanna backpack/camp overnight there now anyway, so this would be a win/win.

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>>1077727

>>1078068
>Not understanding interest

Grow up kiddo

>>1078088
oh, i totally get the pay to play mentality of this world, dude.
probably older than you.

>>1062513
I don't want to get mauled by a polar bear thank you

>>1078104
>still Not understanding interest

>>1062484
>is it time to unleash this economic engine and cut our debt at the same time, /out/?
Why? We're just going to make more debt.

>>1062484
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lITBGjNEp08

>>1078264
so what "interest" are you specifically referring to?
i thought mine was a great example of the most common type, which is "self-interest".
it would seem to my obviously limited understanding that the main theme if in fact is "interest"
then that type of thinking could be referred to as "national self-interest".
self-interest on a national scale.
a trait that is shared by all humans in general, but more so by the 'average american".
why not act in one's short term "interest", and sell off america's crown jewels?
indeed.
america for a very short time in the 90's was actually debt free.
this was not in our national character to act rationally, so this was just a one time deal.

>>1078841

>america for a very short time in the 90's was actually debt free.

When your facts are lies your conclusions are garbage

>>1078841
For what it's worth, we were close to running a deficit free budget during the late Clinton administration (1997), not that we were debt free, the only time the US has been debt free was in 1835.

And I assume that the guy you were responding to was referring to financial "interest" in that it's an amount of money paid to a lender in addition to the initial sum of money borrowed

>>1062484


>>1062484
Fuck off Trump shill

>>1079011
Go back to /pol/ troll

Mods delete this shit thread.

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>>1078885
yes i was wrong on that point, my bad.
this is what happens when memory and time collide. i added that as a afterthought anyway.
what i was meaning to say was this>>1078916
so thank you for the clarification.
you were far more polite than "garbagedude"

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>>1064677
>world's most pristine lakes and rivers
>California

>>1079097
Are you the fag who wants free land cuz gramps sold out in the 30s at FMV and drank the proceeds?

>>1079896
no.
wrong on all points.

>>1062484
Great idea OP, you can get this ball rolling by selling off all of your assets and even your life to Chinese speculators. Good luck!

>>1062591
Roosevelt almost fucked over this country by surrendering to the USSR

National Parks should be sold off immediately. Don't get me wrong, I don't think the DNR is doing a bad job, but private > public every time. Seriously, tell me the last time that privatizing something hasn't been a net gain on society and the service itself? I wish we would do it to the roads, water, and electricity too.

tl;dr Sell the parks, they'll be better

>>1063486
>stealing from people who earned it
They give you jobs. That's effectively food, clothing, and shelter. How fucking ungrateful do you have to be to want to take MORE from them? How much is enough for you parasites?

>>1072855
So was Lincoln. Alright, he made a few mistakes in his presidency, but otherwise he was a moral and upstanding man. If he was a bit harsher on the rural migrants in the south, he would have been perfect!

>>1077404
This

>>1062484
No
Fuck you

You really have no idea why national parks exist.
They're actually meant to protect you, not nature. You could say they're the basis of a peace treaty of sorts.
Think twice before ever going into one again. They love to play with foul minded people like you.

>>1062571
This tbqh.

Fuck off OP, i don't need to see adverts for McDonald's screened onto the nearest mountain. Some things should remain truly public.

>>1081362
There's a simple rule with privatization. First it gets expensive, then it gets shitty.
How long until some rich cuck rakes in massive losses and uses his money to get an exception with his "national" park?

>>1081362
Working for a large park and as one who deals with concessionaires on a regular basis, the likes of private enterprises like Xanterra do not do a good job at the small parts of the park that they do have control over.

>>1082598
You are describing the current situation, massive companies and the government employees rape the park and a wagecuck has to pay $25 just to get in, plus parking fees but usually there is no parking available, camping fees , reservation fees, $10 for a Coke in the lodge, only to get to a trail and it's closed due to spending the budget on global warming and diversity conferences in hawaii.

Anyone, even a retard would do a better job preserving nature while allowing access to the people

>>1062484
You are a moron