Which knife should i chose: Glock 78 or glock 81?

>>1051304
For what, slicing tomatos?

>>1051311
outdoor knife

>>1051304
Glock knifes are garbage.

both are garbage but the 81 is better because it has a flat edge for scraping

>>1051336
why garbage?

>>1051344
That grip sucks dick (grip flat on sides > round grip). It's also a bit slippery when wet. Blade has hitty shape, not too good for cutting things like potatoes etc.
It's generally a bad outdoor tool, it's made for soldiers.

>>1051349
it would be the blade of my choice if i wanted to stab someone to death. mass produced nothing unique about it, perfectly suitable to the task.

>>1051415
Yet another thing a Mora would be better for as they meet all those requirements and are cheap enough to just toss in a river afterwards. With the added bonus of the river dissolving it in a week or so.

>>1051423
Stabbing with a 4" blade with no guard.
Nigga u silly AF

>>1051427
this

>>1051304
I think you'd be better served buying a dildo.

>>1051427

Rondal grip works

>>1051304

I'd rather go with a KABAR fighter/utility with the synthetic handle and sheathe if you really want a stabber

>>1051304
i have used the 78 in the army. they are known for becoming dull very fast, my drill instructor told us the glock 78 is not designed for cutting is a brilliantly disguised batton

>>1051618
nah kabar is crap it's a utility knife. m3 combat knife is way better for stabby stabby.

>>1051304
to answer your question get the one without the saw. I think it's the 78.

>>1051977
the saw kinda ruins the knife yes, altho if you use it as a trenching knife the saw can be used to cut roots your lightweight folding e-tool has troubles with. not sure i would ever pick it over the smooth-back tho.

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>>1051304

I own an 78 myselfe.
I wouldn't choose the 81 since the saw is not too good and it makes fine cutting where you want to but your thumb on the back of the blade and but some pressure on it difficult.

Allover its a very good knife for the price. Its very durable i have tortured mine a lot with digging holes etc and it never let me down. And yes you have to sharpen it from time to time but sharpening it is easy. It gets dull because its a flexible and relatively soft steel but this also makes it nearly unbreakable.

So if you want a knife for real heavy usage go for it, but if you want a super good looking shiny knife that you will only use for cutting soft things you shouldn't buy it.

>>1052114
Damn i should have reread that text before posting. English is not my first language though

>>1051304

Austrian here. If you have a really small budget and just want a knife to look cool, go for it.

If you expect to do chopping, slicing, cutting, or even shaving, then forget it.

This thing as pointed out by others in the thread was made for stabbing. You can use it as a hammer, as a improvised shovel, but this knife is made exclusively for stabbing.

Just get a hatchet if you wanna do "bushcrafting" stuff, or a kabar if you wanna have a cool knife for minor tasks.

I own 2 Glock knives.

>>1051304
>knife
While i like them its more of a sharpened prybar you can stab people with then a knife. I assume it does these tasks very well.
Get the 78 without the sawback.

If you're serious about an /out/ large knife get a Kabar or Ontario SP1 or similar because they've got the heft to stand up to batonny chop chop unlike those flimsy stabbers

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>>1051304
>>1051325
It is sub optimal.
It has a 0,5cm. thick spine and the blade height is so small that the knife is thick behind the secondary bevel (cutting edge) and makes it hard to dig into wood. The edge grind itself is too low to be practical for wood, it will scrape rather than whittle. The handle geometry will make your wrists hurt because it is round, so that you have to keep a tight grip all the time in order to keep the knife from rotating, this problem is doubled due to the mentioned low grind.
This knife is a bayonet that is constructed so that it stabs well while also "working" in a survival situation if need be. The tip is dull so that it won't stick in bones.

For outdoor I recommend you to get a Hultafors OK4, Mora bushcraft black or a condor bushlore if style is a factor. The scandi grind is easy to sharpen and is optimal for processing wood.

>>1052543
they don't come sharp because you are expected to dig with them rather than slice tomatoes, but you can make them razor sharp no issues if you re-profile the edge.

How is carbon steel different from stainless steel?

>>1052596
both has much carbon around 1% but stainless has other metals like chrome that interfere with the rusting of steel.

>>1052620
well generally stainless can be of lower carbon content but it's not evidently a rule. 0.5% to 1.5% anything can be while carbon steels can contain up to 2%. but most blade steels will be around 1%.

My opinion:
Its very good for tasks like building a shelter, opening cans, rational batoning when you want to start a fire in winter, cutting a disc out off the gras so you can make a fire on the soil and put the grasdisc back on the spot the next day etc. but it is not very suitable for gutting fish, cutting a loaf of bread or similar tasks.
Choose for yourself whats more important for you outdoors.

>>1052620
Carbon steel is simple steel (only trace amounts of things other than carbon and iron). Most carbon steel knives are made from 1095 (or something very similar). It's effective and is generally the cheapest of the 10XX HC steels because of produced quantity. Good axes are made with something in the 1045 to 1055 range.

For knives, an "alloy" steel would have more than trace amounts of other elements. For instance, O1 has more Manganese than it does carbon. All steel is an alloy but this is the jargon.

Stainless is steel that is 14% or more chromium. Carbon content varies from 0.6% to 2%. What happens is the chromium forms a chromium oxide on the surface exposed to air. The chromium oxide prevents the iron from forming oxides of it's own. The effectiveness varies by composition. It's stainLESS not stainNEVER.

Semi stainless. Steels like D2, which typically has 12% chromium, are more corrosion resistant than "carbon steel" or "alloy steel" but less corrosion resistant than "stainless" steel. You don't see the real anti-corrosion benefits of chromium until you hit around 14%.

>>1052744
>Carbon steel is simple steel
i'm not even sure if you can have steel without carbon. it's kinda the definition. iron + carbon = steel, iron alloys + carbon = stainless/alloyed steel.

>>1052746
Yes, all steel is at minimum an alloy of iron and carbon.

I was just explaining the jargon used by knife enthusiasts and makers.

>>1052851
steel is not a real alloy tho, it's more like a carbon contamination between crystalline structures of iron atoms that prevent them from easily slipping and reforming (hence less ductile).

>>1052917
I don't know. I'm not a metallurgist but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night, where I did a cursory internet search. It's telling me that "An alloy is a uniform mixture. It is made up of two or more chemical elements, of which at least one is a metal."

I know wikipedia isn't a textbook but it's telling me that plain carbon steel is an alloy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel
https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_steel
https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alloy

If that's not true I'd appreciate something a layman like could read explaining how it's not.

>>1052930
there is two kind of alloys but they are about as far from each other as fire and water.
first kind is where the metallic structure incorporates the other element (this is mostly metals) and the other where the element is embedded beside the metallic structure. they call both alloys but really only the first one is. the second is more like a composite. sadly the definition of alloy is pretty dated when they had no idea about this difference so it's rather ambiguous.

>>1052948
Is there a source on that understandable to a layman?

I'm curious why all these different sources are wrong about what an alloy is.

>>1053061
i'm saying today we would give the two entirely different names one is a chemical bond the other is a structural mix.

I've had the 78 for a few months now. It's not a bad knife if you take the time to sharpen it. I got it because it's cheap and very sturdy but it's not exactly suited for cutting vegetables or things like that.

>>1052552

That'll be a ton of unecessary work if you have no power tools.
>they don't come sharp because you are expected to dig with them rather than slice tomatoes
Exactly they are made to dig, pry, cut wire and stab people, which are tasks that normally take only a moment.
Buying a knife designed to carve wood and cut soft material for a long time without giving you a cramp is more reasonable.

>>1053295
Are you going to post a citation or what?

Not the guy you asked

>>1053314
You can google that shit in 10 seconds but yeah.
Imagine a grid, this grid is made of iron. The part where the lines of this grid meet are the iron parts and these iron parts are held together by chemical links.
In between these links there are "trapped" carbon parts which have no links that connect them to the iron parts.
These carbon parts put stress on the grid so you can't put to much of them into it without making it unstable.

In order to create an alloy you need to create a chemical link between a metal/s and other element/s

>>1053313
>That'll be a ton of unecessary work if you have no power tools.
nah a good 180 stone eats up steel pretty fast. especially if only change the secondary bevel angle.

>>1053321
I did say in posts above that I did indeed "google that shit" and what I found was a bunch of online steel suppliers and wikipedia calling carbon steel an alloy.

So now I'm looking at Heat Treatment,
Selection, and Application
of Tool Steels, by William E. Bryson and he even defines tools as low, middle, and high alloy based on how much carbon they have.

There may be something to what you say, but I can't say. I was explaining the common jargon, not giving a chemistry class. If you want to understand how knife makers and enthusiasts talk about the subject you need to understand the jargon.

>>1053374
>bunch of online steel suppliers and wikipedia calling carbon steel an alloy.
yeah it's like mountain lions. every fucking body knows they have nothing to do with lions they are fucking cougars totally different cats. they are more closely related to the cheetah than the lion for fucks sake. but here it is they are called lions nevertheless.

>>1053557
I don't know of any other ways to tell you I'm explaining the jargon, not giving a chemistry lesson.

So I've given you a specific citation to support what I'm saying. Have you?

You think I should take your word on it when you won't produce anything to back it up? I should just take it on faith what some anon says about it?

>>1051808
I'm sure plenty of Japs and Germans would disagree with you on that.

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The answer is always a hori hori knife. Cheap, tough and useful.

>>1053557
I prefer "catamount" myself.

>>1053666
you are sure huh? i think it's bullcrap. knives haven't been really used in actual combat since ww1.

>>1053590
>I'm explaining the jargon
and i just told you the jargon is fucked because it's dated.
substitution alloys are true alloys interstitial alloys are just contaminations.

>>1053983
Doesn't matter. The jargon is what it is.

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>>1051325
>outdoor knife
you doing it wrong, /k/iddo

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>>1051304
Glock unironicly makes knifes?!

>>1053750
My favorite colloquial name. This was the term used in New England. In my neck of the woods it was panther. but everyone called panthers "Old Gentleman".

>>1051304
Buy an ESEE.

Dunno if someone already said what I am about to say but anyways.
The Glock knife is kindda like a jack of all trades knife made for soldiering including stabby and making things more deader. It WILL do anything but it won't really excel. I find it very durable as in it won't break but I also find that it loses its edge rather fast - but easy to regain.
The blade is thick as fuck so don't expect a finesse-knife but you can abuse the fuck out of it.
I've used mine for digging in the ground and batoned the fuck out of it when I forgot my axe and it still works just fine. Hell, I even dropped it tip first on some rocks. Tip was bent but easily fixed with a file.
For everyday /out/ you are better off with something else. If I had to chose one thing and one thing only for /out/-ing I might consider it though as it does everything from whittling to digging.

>>1057270
it's not bad for a batoning knife i have seen destruction vids about it, takes more than simple intentional abuse.

My dad really knows his metals and he swears by spyderco knives, if you don't mind shelling out some cash they make some very nice blades. He got me a native 5 for Christmas and I really like it.

>>1058824
you can make crap knives form the best steels. many knife companies did knives blatantly wrong. they put the grinds on after heat treat with high speed stones, they create cutouts before hardening, they oil or water quench air hardening steels and the list goes on.

>>1059046

I agree that you can fuck up good materials, but the things you're saying aren't inherently wrong if done correctly.
>put the grinds on after heat treat with high speed stones
You can grind high speed after hardening if you wet grind with cutting fluid or dip it in water before it gets too hot. As long as you keep the temp under you tempering temp, you'e all good.
> they create cutouts before hardening
-I'm not sure what you mean by "cutouts" but there's no problem profiling, drilling holes, and even doing most of your bevel grinding before hardening.
>they oil or water quench air hardening steels
It doesn't matter how you quench as long as you get the speed of cooling correct for that steel. There are professional grade quenchants that can be adjusted to quench at any speed you want. So you could quench any steel in a correctly formulated quenchant.

>>1059175
>but the things you're saying aren't inherently wrong if done correctly.
that's my point i have read several examples of doing it totally wrong. wet grind? who the fuck are you kidding? mass produced knives get their grind on in a matter of seconds. they don't fuck around with water. also cutouts do create problems. they increase the surface for quenching and create very hard and brittle steel at the thinnest cross section. typical example is the buck hoodlum. the thing breaks every time at the same spot. at the cutout. benchmade spyderco buck all repeatedly done this.

>>1058824
>My dad really knows his metals and he swears by spyderco knives
I bet he's a gazillion feet tall and can beat up anybody too huh champ?

>>1059236
I said inherently wrong. If you wet grind it can be done at high speed, in seconds, and not damage the temper. And it's not water, it's cutting fluid. I think you have a lot of room to grow your knowledge about this.

"Cutouts" don't inherently negatively affect the quench. Poor design and placement of holes and thin sections result in weak points.

I don't know where you're getting your ideas but I'm a knife maker. I've made nearly a hundred knives. I've read dozens of books on design and heat treating. I heat treat in a professional kiln and I work with a bunch of types of steel. I take trips to go to teaching seminars. I'm a standing member in the local makers association. And most important of all: I test the things I make. I look for fuck ups so I can learn to do better.

In short, I know what I'm talking about. I've been educated in this field and I've made and tested these methods for myself.

Why don't you stop arguing with me and let me impart some knowledge to you?

>>1059290
Did you intentionally set out to write the knife making equivalent to the seal pasta or did it just happen organically?

>>1059290
No and now that you mention it I do se the resemblance. Unlike the seal pasta though, my claims are plausible and I'm completely serious.

I'm just trying to educate a fellow knife enthusiast. My intentions are good.

>>1059305
rofl he made 300 knives and can make them bear handed i bet.

>>1051349
glock knifes are military knifes, not camping gear.

>>1051304
Glock 20, no compromises

>>1059941
"military" really just means cheap as fuck somewhat sturdy and painted olive/drab/black and usually smells bad.

>>1059704
Nope.
>close to a hundred
>only 5 with files before I got my 2x72
>no bears participated.

>>1051304
Get yourself a 15$ Mora knife because it's better than either of those.