why not simply throw it in the fire? i don't get it...

>>1047550
You split wood to make kindling so you can start a fire.

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>>1047550
It is for entertainment purposes.

I never really bother with splitting wood down to kindling unless I'm making a base, normally there's enough dead standing branchs that I can get a fuck ton of kindling sized sticks.
I carry an axe anyways, batoning is fucking stupid.

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>>1047577

>>1047579
This, why the fuck do mall ninja "bushcrafters" spend hours splitting wood when there's a fuck ton of dry sticks covered in oh so good sap and bark.

>>1047585
> dry wood prominent everywhere
> covered in sap and bark

Yeah, just use the dry cacti and fruit bat droppings to start a fire.

People with this "pick up deadwood" meme really need to travel and experience different types of forests and climate.

It just does not work always. If it works where you live, great.

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>>1047607
Good luck finding logs in that fantasy environment that has dry cacti and bat droppings.

Because if there's logs, there's limbs, and if there's limbs there's twigs, and if there's dry cacti then there sure as hell as dry twigs and that means you are a moron.

>>1047607
>where you live
You mean fucking anywhere with trees? Also I live in New Zealand, one of the hardest places on earth to start a fire, shits not difficult if you know what to look for.

>>1047581
where is the actual video of this, i want to know what is actually said

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>>1047756
Its nothing but IQ lowering banter.

http://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1498654995924.webm

>>1047616
> one of the hardest place to start a fire

Give me a fucking break.

> No understand point about not all forests being like your background

mfw

>>1047550
>itt summerfags that never go /out/ in wet conditions

>>1047783
>t. babby batonny chop chop extreme survivalist

>>1047808
> muh ideological blah

Survival is binary, Ohio man. Either you survive or you don't.

Regardless of a life or death situation, is it better to have ability for more, or for less?

Your battony chop neurosis sounds like a sperg who cannot cross the road unless the number of steps taken over the road is an even number.

You limit your skills, for no good reason. It is rather sad.

>>1047551
it's prolly easier to snap twigs than split open logs

>>1047824
>batonny chop chop
>skill that needs extensive practice
lel

Most any fixed-blade knife and a lot of the larger folding knives are capable of batonning IN AN EMERGENCY, which is the only time it should ever be done. It requires ZERO practice to place the blade on top of a small log/big stick and hit it with another small log/big stick.

>>1047859
/thread

>>1047859
You know what takes even less skill? Snapping sticks.

>>1047550
makes wood burn better and faster

>>1047550
Basically the air acts as an insulator so heat remains trapped longer.

With a larger stick, it doesnt accept heat as quickly, so it reflects back into the ground. With smaller sticks, it takes the heat, allows it to pass through, and will go into the next stick above it.
>>1047613
Is that satire?
>>1047616
>It's hard to start fires in NZ

Anyway you really shouldnt ever need to baton wood.

>>1047550

More surface area means that more of the wood is on fire at any given moment.

A whole log will burn slow and with less intensity, one that's been cut into pieces will burn faster and with more intensity.

>snowy area
>wet area
You get dry wood this way

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>>1047577
>>1047581

>>1047873
That's his point you dip.

Sticks and fallen leaves are all I've needed. It gets it going and you just put bigger sticks and broken up branches to get the heat.

I've done feather sticking after watching videos on it, and it works, but leaves and broken up sticks work the same and are easier.

I can't see the purpose of batoning. None of the old survival books I have list it either. Feather sticking is in them, though. Splitting wood for an indoor fire, and you use an axe.

>>1047859
This seems to not be the case... just look at this thread with idiots batoning their shit knives to death with the wrong method.

It does not take much practise though. Just common sense and a few sessions at most. Seems that people have a hard time with the common sense part.

>>1048772
The trick is to not cut into end grain like a retard.

>>1048757
Indeed, feather sticks from dry or semi-moist wood work, but carving a frozen branch/log can become somewhat tedious IMO, though it is possible with moderate effort.

>>1048774
Exactly. It is easiest to try the procedure a few times to get a feel of the point at which ones effort will be reduced into the realm of futile retardedness and high risk of knife damage.

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>>1047859
>batonning IN AN EMERGENCY

Why? Name one emergency, where a gun to your head isn't involved, that requires batonny chop chop.

>>1047936
I live in a rainforest. we get 2 months of snow and 3 months of rain at worst. I think you are a moron.

>>1048805
In a heavy rain and you need dry wood.

>>1048821
then look at the bottom of a tree generally trees lose branches then they drop to the bottom and are shielded by the leaves from rain

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>>1048821
You need dry wood regardless. Batoning is worthless. There is always dry wood regardless of how bad the weather is even for months on end. You don't need to waste time batonning.

>>1048825
No they arent, that's just moronic. Water runs down the trunk and into the ground beside it. You definitely dont want wood directly off the ground.
>>1048828
k im just going to walk a fucking mile to get wood instead of just splitting a log in less than 5 minutes right in front of me

>>1048832
>he's gonna split a fucking log with a knife
>because he has time and energy to source actual logs

You really need to learn how to make a feather stick.

>>1048832
Nigga go do some real outdoors shit, go hunting or some shit. Making fires is fucking effort, im not chopping down and proccessing a tree when im tired. Sticks are easier.

>>1047929
>Is that satire?

Not in the slightest. Have you not seen the perfect logs in 90% of batonny chop chop vids? They don't get that way only using a knife. Also, rockets stoves are pretty damn fuel efficient. Even if its been raining cats and dogs and all the sticks are literally soggy, you can just stuff the rocket stove with dry fuel before you leave your house. Then use that small amount to dry out the wet stuff. it will smoke a bit, but who cares about that.

Actually, with a rocket stove, your firestarting materials (tinder) should be more than enough to dry out the rocket-stove-sized kindling, which is wee tiny. You are good to go from there.

>>1048779

I also note that the feather sticks on see on YouTube tend to be different to what my books show.

The books show a large stick with deep and large cuts with your knife with rather thick feathering.

Lots of YouTube bushcrafters make very fine things that really are simple kindling in comparison. The books show how you make a limb of arm thickness and smaller into something you can put in a fire and it'll light up with the deep cuts.

I can see the point of fine feather sticks, though, as they use the fire steel stuff to get it going with a spark. It's probably useful in colder areas.

Where I live it's full of dry leaves year round, which you can get going with a lighter.

>>1047577
aaaaaaaaaahahhahhahah

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>>1048853
You are correct about that. In boyscouts we learned to use wrist-sized sticks and feather them. There was none of this fancy stuff. However, the style of fires being made in boyscouts then are nothing like the more efficient fires I make now.

Batoning is a valid technique.
>Trekking along coast of the baltic sea
I couldn't even burn the flimsy little twigs I broke off at the low part of a spruce tree.
I tried and tried but couldn't manage to get the fire going because everything was wet inside out.
I found two ways to solve my problem:
1.Put the kindling under my jacket and lift it every few minutes to release the moist air. Gets the kindling dry in about 1,5 hours.
2. Battony chop chop. Took 10 minutes.

What people do wrong in my opinion is that they don't carve wedges when splitting stuff upwards of 2/3 their blade length. I use the mora to open up the grain and place the wedge in it. Problem solved. Needs patience though. I used the same wedge for two tours. hardened it over the fire. I've got a little 1lb. swedish hatchet but I just find it to heavy.

>>1047550
I am glad I tried batonning. I fucked up a nice knife, and learned a good lesson in an environment where it wasn't life and death. Now it is twig bundles and star fires, like a good injun.

>>1048915
Dude, if you have tinder you can make a fire in the wet rain. Just use smaller diameter twigs and tear them up well with your hands. The tinder will dry them. When they catch fire, you repeat the process on the wet kindling and so on with larger stuff once the kindling catches.

>>1047551
You could just use leaves and sticks for kindling

>>1047934
Pretty sure spending twenty minutes getting wood results in more wood fuel than spending 5 minutes gathering wood and 35 minutes "battoning" sticks.

I frequents innawoods and heat my house with an outdoor wood stove.

The only reason chopping woods is necessary is for moving and stacking i.e. you have 15 full chords of wood or maybe even a site you plan to be at for a week.

Even a huge pile of disorganized sticks is more spatially and resourcefully intelligent than spending 2 hours chopping wood with a pocket knife.

>>1048939
>Even a huge pile of disorganized sticks is more spatially and resourcefully intelligent than spending 2 hours chopping wood with a pocket knife.

>tfw I have a couple storage totes of sticks to fuel my rocket stove for cooking
>tfw 1 tote is, on the average, 50 meals of fuel

Feels pretty good actually. I own over 40 acres of woods. The amount of deadfall is insane. I'd like to make a rocket stove for my house and use the deadfall for fuel. I dislike chopping wood and felling trees. I've done to much of that in the past. A friend of mine heated her entire 3 story house with fireplaces and deadfall.

>>1048915
>What people do wrong in my opinion is that they don't carve wedges when splitting stuff upwards of 2/3 their blade length.
you really shouldn't baton anything thicker than half the length of your blade. that's the first fuckup. then you can actually split wood without batoning straight through like a retard. baton a wedge into the side of the log in the middle and whack it like you would with a saw. knife will not be harmed wood will be split.

You anti-batoners are a bunch of assholes. What if you're backpacking around the US for example, and regularly find yourself in national park campsites where scavenged wood isn't allowed and you have to purchase?
Say you need sticks that are smaller than those required.
Say you can't carry an axe because they weigh a fuckin' tonne.
Say you have a knife and the ability to use it to chop some fucking wood.
Get over yourselves. Everyone has their own ways and as long as they're not fucking up the woods it's cool with me.

>>1049101
>as long as they're not fucking up the woods it's cool with me.
yeah i mean worst case they fuck up their knives or cut their hand. no harm done to you or me.

batoning is fine if done correctly the amount of hysterics it generates on this board is baffling.

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>>1049101
>find yourself in national park campsites where scavenged wood isn't allowed and you have to purchase?

Get in your car, drive to Walmart, and buy an axe to use during your "emergency".

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>>1049111
This vid here is literally what >>1049101 is describing in his scenario.

>>1048930
>use leaves as kindling
fuck off

>>1049127
Probably just as tinder, but if you have enough of them you can use them as tinder.

>>1049132
>use them as kindling.

fixed

>>1047577
Perfect axe... uses knoife...

>>1049111
Thanks matey, that's me point.

>>1049101
>national park
>scavenged (deadfall) wood isn't allowed
And which national parks would these be? Because I've been to most of them, and they all allow you to burn deadfall if they don't have a total burn ban due to wildfire risk.

Also, why the FUCK are you "backpacking" with a wood stove?

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>>1049184
>backpacking with a wood stove
>what is a campfire
here is where i call you a nigger

>>1049133
Leaves don't burn.

>>1049211
what do they do then?

>>1049214
They just don't burn.

I lived in the woods for 3 months straight and I batoned with my 3inch blade every day, never broke.

>>1047766
is this guy actually fucked in the head?

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>>1049211
>>1049279
It is posts like these that let you know instantly who doesn't actually go outside.

>>1049280
The most I spent was a month, but I never needed anything more than some deadfall twigs and limbs. I was only using star fires back then. No need to chop or cut to size. I think I used a knife like 10 times, for the butchering, and that's about it.

>>1049290
Yes. He's a biker among other things. There's even a vid of him and about 100 other riders outrunning the cops and a helicopter.

>>1049294
Have youever tried showing a loaf of leaves into a campfire?

There is nothing wrong with batoning, the problem is when youtube survivalist started doing it to split full size logs. Batoning is useful when spliting with an axe is not longer safe. At this point you can even use your hand as a baton.

>>1049298
What does that have to do with using dry leaves as tinder?

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>>1049314
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5W6r5U7yBE

Learn how to use an axe properly.

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>>1049322
mr. ray meres is an ecxellent batonner
he has unmatched precision and to match up to his demanding needs he requires of the same caliber
her e he's using a custom batonning knife with forward-swept weight for better power and extended wodden full tang for more precision, since a bigger handle means you can hold on to it more
this man would baton circles around all of you without you even being aware

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>>1049332
Stop hitting your knives. Learn proper techniques.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSOXU0rrqOM

>>1049360
>Stop hitting your knives. Learn proper techniques.
seeming how you can do the same with batoning a knife instead of a saw you make little to no sense.

>>1048853
Where I live, during the winter/early spring the frozen half-rotten leaves are under snow/ice and just do not burn no matter what.

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>>1049369
Using the saw for sawing is the intended purpose for that tool. Hitting your knife is tool abuse.

>>1049376
nah it's fine it's just a metal wedge.

1. Use a fucking wedge after making a small start with you knife

And/or

2. While you're walking an hour or two before making camp keep on the lookout for good bits of kindling. Don't collect a shit ton, just enough to get the fire started

And/or

3. Before breakomg camp, salvage some small bits of blackened and charred wood from the previous fire. Wrap it and keep it dry all day and use it for the next. Really easy to light

>>1047783
I literally started a fire in my backyard the other day while it was raining...I didn't baton a fucking thing...instead of beating your knife through a tree stump with another log to get some dry kindling, try using it to feather stick to get some dry kindling...it works better and you don't look like a dumbass doing it.

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>>1049425
YOU LITERALLY CAN'T DO THAT IT IS ILLEGAL YOU CAN'T MAKE FIRE WHILE RAINING IT IS ILLEGAL YOU MUST USE BATONNY!!!!

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>>1049436
>Pinellas County, Florida

It is always Florida.

>not just using your fucking pocket stove

NO I HAVE TO DO IT THE HARD WAY

>>1048926
I can see how that works in wet rain, but what about dry rain?

>>1049425
Feather sticks rock. But when attempting to feather-stick wood that is in a state of deepfreeze, one needs almost superhuman arm strength, dexterity and concentration.

Not saying it cannot be done, just that it takes some effort. (Based on my experiences with the most available wood here, spruce, pine and birch)

>>1050038
Sit on it, to warm it up.

>>1049360
But Ray batons too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osxfQkz104A

>>1047577
I still haven't seen the original and I'm not sure if I want to at this point.

>>1048806
Splitting wood and feather sticks is how all the top 3 Alone season 1 competitors started their fires in the pacific northwest rainforests.

Its how i start my fires in the snowy alpine region i live in where there's only low hanging wet scrubs n shrubs.

>>1050212
Batoning I've never done it in my life. I never knew it existed until I saw some retard doing it on a youtube video a few years ago. That's over 4 decades of starting fires in a rainforest. I was always twigs, feather sticks, and star fires until I went full LNT and started using a stove.

>>1050197
Ray batons things that are 3 or less inches in diameter, which is completely acceptable. The problem is all these youtube faggots that started this trend of using their knives to split literal fucking logs...logs that should be split with a goddamn splitting maul. It's retarded and has turned batoning into a meme.

>>1047550
I've been shit talking batoning with knives for years, on this board. I typically always got a lot of push back. It's really encouraging to see other people mocking this idiocy.

I'm proud of you guys.

>>1047607
Ok, but it's pretty rare to be somewhere with no deadfall. Every meme warrior batoning video I've ever seen was in a place that obviously wasn't one of these weird places with only living wood.

>>1047936
Ever spent any time in the bush? See, there are these things called trees, and when they die they don't usually lay perfectly flat on the ground. Often they'll die and stand there for years before rotting at the base to the degree that they'll fall over. If you spent any time doing bushcraft away from your keyboard, you'd know this.

Also, snow doesn't penetrate wood until it melts in warmer weather. Even then the same standing dead tree rules apply.

Go outside.

>>1048774
No, the trick is wood selection.

Fucking meme warriors.

>>1050370
yes, altho 3 inches is pushing it with a 4 inch bushcraft knife imo. 50% of the blade length in diameter is the max (assuming the longer blade is proportionally stronger).

>>1050557
>>1050560
i have found myself with no dry deadfall once. and yes i did split wood to get the dry middle for feather sticks and burning. it was hard to make fire even then.

if you have enough time to do the preps sure it's not particularly difficult.

>>1048920
And that's the other thing. In a survival situation risking the destruction of one of your most important tools is just fucking retarded.

Goddam internet fucking up perception of good bushcraft.

>>1049125
That asshole is car camping and he chose not to bring a hatchet or axe?

He earned the destruction of his tool.

Goddam meme warriors.

>>1049314
This guy gets it.

Batoning is for processing small pieces of wood. Also, check out pics of broken knives mid-baton. Most of the wood they're working on is full of knots and or twisted grain. Knots can be a lot of extra work for a hatchet. Trying to go through that shit with knife is dumb as shit.

Goddam internet fucking up bushcraft.

>>1049376
I'll just baton through this grain twist with my thin metal tool. It's cool, I went to youtube university. I know what I'm doing.

Goddam meme warriors.

>>1050197
-very small
-straight grain
-no knots

You meme warriors need to pay attention to the details.

>>1050560
> snow does not penetrate wood

Hereabouts snow does not just appear and be dry (snow and low temps). It is preceded by months of rain and increasing moisture and progressively cooling weather. This follows a relatively dry, intensive and hot summer.

When it snows, the wood is frozen from the outside and wet. At the heart of the winter or early spring trying to burn some random deadfall (without thawing and drying it for a long time) is basically futile.

Even during the winter the temperature fluctuates up and down, thawing, freezing. It is not dry, powdery snow except on rare days when it snows during very low temperatures.

>>1050566
This is why you have to know how to do it, and practise before an emergency.

I batoned in .mil 20+ years ago. It is nothing new nor a Youtube invention. Guys from up north did it instinctively during wintery days, having learnt it from their grandpas and so on.

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>>1047577
>has a fucking axe
>for some reason tries to use the knife
what why what how

If you're burning wood it's already too late.

>>1050602
Fair enough. Where I live it's all boreal and cold enough that snow stays frozen.

>>1050607
I live in western Canada and I learned my first bushcraft skills from my Grandfather, who lived on a a trapline for decades and was a master outdoorsman, hunter, and ended up being the fire boss his region of our forestry service. So what I'm about to tell you is a an observation of the kind of old timer bushcraft wisdom you alluded to. He and his buddies treated their knives like precious commodities because if you fuck your knife up when you're actually in a survival situation you're in much bigger trouble than you started off in.

I'm aware youtube didn't invent it, but they sure fucking ruined it. People are greatly misled about the proper use of that technique and it's because some clueless prepper survivalist asshole started talking shit and people believe him and they started talking shit. It's a self propelled moron machine that's spurned along by keyboard warriors with little experience and big mouths.

>>1050607
Most people instinctively use an axe for splitting wood.

>>1050650
This.

>>1050650
And, this is why people baton. They want to be different thinking and show everyone how different and cool they are for doing it. They literally sit t here batoning away feeling smug. It is the very reason something like this occurs: >>1049125

>>1050650
Most people don't instinctively carry hatchets. Your knife is one, if it is large enough. Look up "leuku". Thanks.

>>1050648
Yes, I agree with you.

IMO what we have wrt. the discussion around batoning tools and do/don't are differences in the surrounding biome, climate and to some extent tradition.

For example: there is a relative lack of small axes/hatchets in the Nordics. Traditional stuff are knives, big and small. When one wants to use an axe, it is usually a fucking huge one used to fell trees and remove branches, not a tiny one. I can well imagine most (all?) of Canada having a different tool-set and tool focus compared to e.g. the Nordics due to tradition (through the native people of Canada/North America).

However, wood is split in both places.

>>1050654
Axes are a jewish invention. A white male BATONS.

>>1050665
If you think the Sami traditionally batonned through logs of firewood you're a special kind of stupid. You're the kind of stupid that projects his stupid onto the history of a people he doesn't know the history of.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sami_knife

Also, that part of the world was crazy for axes. If you think the Sami had steel knives but not steel axes... well, I've already told you how special you are.

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>>1050683
I disagree. Axes were very common in the nordic regions. It was a common item produced by blacksmiths. So while they may not have had a lot of hatchets, the had a lot of axes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking_Age_arms_and_armour

Also, the pic is the world boreal map. You'll notice most of Sweden and Norway are the same as western Canada (south of the territories anyways). So no, not that different.

So, my opinion is that batonning for general firewood processing would have been avoided because of the risk of breaking your knife. Steel was hand smelted. Do you have any idea how labor intensive that is?
Steel tools are precious when you need them and they're not easily replace.

This modern meme warrior idea that you baton through big logs, and with no regard for knots or grain straightness is completely a modern idiocy.

>>1050826
Christ that article stub is shit. There's 2 citation and that's for the length and handle type. Literally nothing else is cited at all. Plus, the citations it does have are paraphrased.

>>1050826
FFS, read that link. One carried/carries two knives of which the bigger is used to split wood. It says so on the page.

Yes they did split wood with leukus. They still do but of course nowadays people might carry small axes too.

If you think you know better, give me a name for a traditional small Sami steel axe. Or even a traditional Finnish small steel axe. I think you won't find any, because you are a stupid fuck who is wrong.

>>1047616

>One of the hardest
You're a faggot.

>>1050836
You don't do "general firewood processing" with batoning. You make logs with a big axe and saw. Out in the sticks the trees can be thin birches at best, which can be felled with a machete like Leuku and split further with anothet knife. They are pretty thin.

>>1050836
A Viking battle axe is not a small hatchet type axe. And people did carry a BIG axe to cut down trees if that was the purpose.

The "forests" in Lapland are unlike those in the south. I don't know what area in Canada could resemble it. Trees are slim and few, easy to cut with a bigger knife like a leuku or seax.

IMO batoning is safe and not inherently tool destroying when done properly i.e. when one knows how to do it and most specifically WHEN to do it and when to not to do it.

>>1050975
They weren't batoning through big knotty logs like your average 'let's break a knife today' youtube university moron.

-small pieces
-no knots
-straight grain

That is the only way to baton without putting your knife at major risk. There's no way they would have done something that put their knives at risk of being broken when they might have several days travel from a blacksmith. No way.

>>1050990
This guy gets it.

>>1051001
I agree, you have to know when to do it. 99.99% of youtube trained dipshits have no idea how to do it properly. For most of the people on /out/ 'batoning' means any piece of wood you want with no regard for wood selection.

For years I've been railing against this on /out/ and I typically get 99% push back. This is one of the first threads I've seen that starts out highly critical of batoning.

>>1050975
Oh, also, in order to determine which of us is the dumb fuck I need you to point out to me where I said the sami carried "small" axes. Go ahead, I'll wait.

>>1051370
>This is one of the first threads I've seen that starts out highly critical of batoning.
you were under a rock the past year or so?
i only post pro-batoning because these threads get on my nerves as soon as one dies some faggot makes an other and thinks he is clever or funny or something.

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>>1051384
>t. Batonny Chop Chop Babby Bushkekker

>>1051384
You defend something stupid, not because you're stupid, but because people mock the stupid a lot.

Okie dokie.

>>1051393
youtube university, whoo!

Now what if you were actually in a hike in camping situation or a survival situation. If you really needed your knife and you couldn't replace it any time soon, would you risk breaking it like this?

Youtube university fuckdoodles would, and then they would blame the knife.

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>>1051396
>muh bad steel

You betcha. It is always the knife's fault.

>>1051394
you faggots annoy me that's all.
>>1051393
batoning is fine don't cry here if you can't do it go out and practice! it will come to you i'm sure just have to lift your fat ass from the couch first.

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>>1051414
>cry cry :'(

>>1051418
sssh no tears just practice! you can do it anon even retards and autismos can get the hang of it.

>>1051398
cool bro. Do you want to show me where I said it was the knife's fault? Because I've been saying the exact opposite all over this thread.

>>1051414
So, you're pro stupid because you're annoyed. Got it.

>>1051434
>So, you're pro stupid because you're annoyed.
nah batoning is love batoning is life didn't you know that time started for us humans when zeus batoned off his fathers dick?

>>1051509
Oh shit, that would have been a stone knife then. Good trick!

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>>1051434
>cool bro. Do you want to show me where I said it was the knife's fault? Because I've been saying the exact opposite all over this thread.

I see you are new to these threads. "muh bad steel" is a meme. That post is agreeing with you by being ironic.

>>1051546
Whatever, I don't think it was.

That Parang design is probably the problem there, or the heat treat. Probably both. See where it snapped, most of that profile is a big hole. There's just a little bit of metal being worked by the entire leverage of the blade.

They should have used two smaller fasteners and moved the first hole a little closer to the heel.

>>1051545
many people don't recognize how hard the shaft of chronos was it was akin to a knotted black ironwood log took a while to take off the gnarly pecker but only after that day and night became a thing so we don't know how many days of batoning it took.

in the olden times it was the gods privileged to baton their tools but now with the advent of supersteels we humans became the new gods.

I figure batonny chop is for like fine knocks on the wood, whittle like but for fire rafting just fucking grab some sticks and make a fire it's fucking dumb

Why the fuck would I waste a good knife to batoning when I can just carry a lightweight trekking axe?

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>>1051576
>Whatever, I don't think it was.

Being this dense.

>>1051576
the way you use a parang is don't fucking push the blade as i bites into shit, just let it fall with an easy but sure grip let inertia do the work. then it won't snap. it's a crap design tho i agree. totally insane cunt nigger design to put a hole there.

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>>1051828
>Why the fuck would I waste a good knife to batoning when I can just carry a lightweight trekking axe?

I use my axe to split to about 1.5" diameter, baton with a knife smaller beyond that. It's safer and easier, and really not that hard on the knife. Tiny split kindling is nice for restarting fires in mornings or for twig stoves.

>>1051371
What pissed me off was your make-belief expertise and conclusions which were clearly wrong, and the smugness of your inability to understand how wrong you were.

The Viking set of tools is not somehow applicable to Sami or Finnic/Fenno-Ugric people.

The Sami had axes like everyone else but hatchets (small axes) were not traditionally carried when hunting. Leuku did that job, and it is a (big) knife and yes they split wood with it. So they batoned with a knife and not some kind of tomahawk/hatchet.

>TL;DR: Your belief that Sami did not split wood with knived ergo did not baton is wrong.

Now, you can go choke on a cock while waiting.

>>1051396
Yes, you would risk your tool iff options are survival or death for that particular event.

Otherwise it is not a "survival situation", it is just inconvenient.

>>1051366
Of course they did not baton through some random 1000 year old oak but checked the thickness and wood structure etc.

You think people back in the days did not know how to baton safely?

They did not carry extra when hunting, thus no two hand axes used for felling trees just to split wood. Such tools were left at the more permanent camp if used at all. Up north in Lapland those kind of axes are rather useless.

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>>1051904
>>1051902
>>1051901
>WWWAARRGGG!!!! PRO-BATONNY UNITE!!!!

>>1051912
Ran out of arguments I see.

>>1051901
I don't believe they split large pieces of firewood like the morons in these 'let's break a knife videos. They were dependent on that tool. No smart person in that position would risk their tools, unlike the tools we see today that are batoning through their knotty gas station firewood.

>>1051902
All of the videos in this thread and all the pictures and videos I've collected have something in common: poor wood selection. Anyone with any bushcrafting experience is too smart to do it the way it's been done in this thread.

So if you're in a 'survival' situation and you think you need to break your knife to survive, YOU'RE A SHITTY BUSHCRAFTER and you might die for your meme tier idiocy.

>>1051904
Well the internet warrior youtube university grads are batoning through poorly selected woods. My point is that good bushcrafters don't do that.

>>1051979
I'm not that guy.

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>>1051996
>muh bad wood

>>1051996
Yes, it is safe to say the presented batoning videos are pure idiocy because of many reasons. Their only motivation seems to be breaking the knife instead of splitting the wood.

It is sad, like watching someone try to use scissors to cut normal paper but always somehow managing to bend and break the scissors between an opening between two rocks, therefore using scissors to cut paper is bad.

>>1051999
nice! knife is perfectly fine i like this a lot!

>>1051996
Nope not large pieces... The videos have often too large logs. Less than a wrist diameter birch is usually fine to split with a big knife, a thigh diameter piece of pine is definitely not.

Long story short, I don't believe the choice of wood and blade and technique etc. when splitting was guesswork long ago. One can see when it is not a good idea, even before the first strike is done.

I do not understand why the Internet tool smashers force-kill their knives.

>>1052101
>I do not understand why the Internet tool smashers force-kill their knives.
it's entertainment. they do it because people click to watch.

>>1052088
Except the handle is ruined.

>>1052106
not ruined it has a little boo boo. you can make an other handle for a good knife like that.

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>people actually defend this

>>1052107
>it isn't broke
>just a little broke
>easy non-broke thing that can be repaired by replacing it

Sure thing, kid.

>>1052112
the handle is usable it just got a little tear on the end. you can fix it with some superglue if you don't mind a little visible damage or make a wooden handle for it. the knife is fine.

>>1052113
I guess you missed the part where the 2nd log skinned the handle down the knife.

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>doing this for thirty years with four different knives all of which are still intact
>find out the rest of the world apparently uses frozen turds in place of knives
I mean I didn't chop all the wood with a knife, but being forgetful I often left my axes behind or locked in the shed and was too lazy to spend time to get them.

>>1052119
you missed the superglue. nothing it can1t fix altho come to think of it rubber glue might be better for end result i just don't like working with it..

>>1052126
temperature actually matters in making steel more brittle. this brittleness increases with carbon content. pure iron becomes brittle in -100C but steels can become brittle under +100C and increasingly brittle as they approach freezing point this is especially prelevant with steels 0.4-0.5%C.

>>1052130
I've used my knives this way at -30ºC without problems. Sure, each of them cost 150-200€ but that's quality for you.

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>>1052128
>it is okay to abuse and break a tool
>especially if it is in a survival situation where you must depend on it

>>1052131
like i said high or extreme low carbon content gives little fuck about human survivable temperature changes. the low-middle carbon content steels are very very sensitive to it tho. the steel can become many times more brittle near freezing point than on body temperature. not all steels just some.

the frozen turd got me thinking you are onto something in certain cases.

>>1052132
good knife is not broken your argument is invalid.

>>1052137
Quality control and demonstrations only taking summer temperatures into account? Yeah, I could believe that.

Now that I think about it, as a kid I once had some kind of idiotic 'survival knife' which snapped in three within half a year. Looked cool to a six-year old but at least it got me to appreciate just having a regular good knife.

>>1052132
i understand what you're saying but if you're making a point you shouldnt post a video of somebody that's never batonned before

it's a technique. it's something you CAN use, and when wood is wet and you need fuel, it's something to consider.

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>>1052168
>muh elite technique!!!

>>1052188
Whu is there so many videos of batoning?

>>1048926

Don't forget that he could just take some fatwood from any dead bottom branch and have more than enough flame to get even sopping wet wood to burn.

>>1052132
> ur a faggot dot webm

Yes, If you fail a survival situation, you die, and your knife no longer matters.

If it is a real survival situation you will do anything you can. Making fire next to your RV in the summer is not a survival situation.

Posting stupid people trashing knives is

>>1052428
> fatwood

Works fine in some biomes, in some climates, with some types of trees.

>>1052479
...internet era faggotry

>>1052130
citation needed.

>>1052138
Some people never learn.

>>1052168
People say shit like this and then dipshits go car camping and try to baton through all their firewood.

And you don't know how many times that guy has batoned. How many idiots still think batoning through their knotty 8" logs is just fine. If the knife breaks it was the knife's fault, right?

That guy could be on his 5 knife for all you know. The problem is that people are doing it wrong, making videos the other people believe, and then those people go out and do it wrong, and rinse and repeat.

>>1052428
My wife and sis-in-law own some land and it's all poplar and a little bit of willow and some bushes. Not a coniferous tree for miles.

Just saying, you simple solution isn't always so simple.

>>1052479
>buy a bunch of survival gear to prepare for anything. I must survive.
>doesn't need to live longer than he can keep the current fire going because he broke his knife making it.

You youtube university grads are really missing the mark.

>>1052493
You miss the mark. If you just have to survive, right now, within the next hour, or die of hypothermia or whatever, you do not think long term, since short-term is terminal. If you fail the short-term there will not be a long term.

Once you fix the short term, THEN worry about possible broken knives and other things like burgundy socks being body conscious enough with your pink suede hiking sandals.

You are highly unlikely to break your tools if you know how to do things. Batonny kek choppy babby videos and ideological denial of a valid technique is not productive.

It is akin to saying small streams shall not be crossed by jumping since you can screw up your legs, leading to death innabush due to immobility. Some streams can be jumped over, slippery rocks should not be used as landing pad and so on, it is all about learning what and how and when.

>>1052137
Bingo

>>1052188
yup that was a knot

>>1052491
candles are better than fatwood. they turn any wood to fatwood only it burns better. bring candles.

>>1047577
Why didn't he just use the axe?

>>1052501

Ok... you have to baton your way to survival. Ya that a reasonable scenario. Lack of necessary gear, freezing to death.. but wait, I can baton some wood! That'll fucking fix it.

People argue about 'survival' shit all the time, but I rarely hear about people in actual survival situations they batoned their way out of.

What I do see is people buying 'survival' knifes that they take car camping or hike camping. Then they beat the shit out of them till they break. The shock on their faces as they being to rage at being sold such a shitty knife...

So lets be honest for a second: if you don't have access to a bug out bag or if you don't adequately prepare for your trip, you're fucked. You can't baton your way out of that, regardless of what bullshit you heard on the internet.

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>>1052517
>muh bad steel & knots & technique!

This is the mentality of a batonny chop chop babby.

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>>1052550
But, anon! These people carry a Bowie knife as their EDC!

>>1052550
If you are freezing and need dry wood for a fire, yeah you might have to split wood with your knife.

>>1052556
rofl hoodlums all break 100% from batoning and all at the same place. crap design. your argument is invalid.

>>1052557
nah i just baton my cheap ass mora and so far it's fine. not even many scratches.

>>1052550
Some lamers heading out with a half-assed tacticool "bug-out-bag" and a Rambo Survival Serrated Knifelike Sharpened Crowbar which they break next to their RV while hammering it sideways with a rock hardly counts as a survival situation.

As for saving skin in real life, it will not be about just one technique or tools, it is a set of techniques, tools, and capability and knowledge to put these to use. Talk to more people and make sure they are not experienced only in your backyard biome.

>>1052557
lmfao what a shit knife. cant even baton properly. why do knife makers do this? surely they are aware of the primary use people buy knives for?

Newfag here. Why are people using knifes as axes to cut up literal BLOCKS of wood? Knife is only good for splitting soft, thin wood. Small axe that could actually chop up blocks of wood doesn't weigh that much and gets the job done much better without breaking anything. Why are people so retarded? These .webms are comedy gold, glad I stumbled here.

>>1052639
It is equivalent to attempting to walk with legs crossed. Artificially making a somewhat simple thing appear difficult and destructive.

>>1052557
Please post more of these videos. I love.

>>1052632
Most knife companies don't even respond to customers who mention batoning in the email they send about the warranty. It is because the companies consider batoning tool abuse and doing that even once, voids the warranty.

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>>1052730

>>1052760
good ones do
>If you screw it up, break it, or cut it in two with a cutting torch, send it back and we'll replace it. Warranty is transferable. In other words, we warranty the knife no matter how many times it's been traded, sold or given away. We don't ask for a sales receipt, date of purchase or where you bought the knife - No fine print and no hassles. If you have a problem, contact us.

>>1052760
Which companies in particular? I'd like to know so I can avoid their knives...

>>1052766
The ones that have so much markup they can easily afford to replace your $15 knife you paid $100 for. Yes, an ESEE probably costs around $10-15 dollars to produce. They probably wholesale it for double or triple the manufacturing cost. Then the supply chain keeps marking it up, but mostly it's the consumer outlet that cranks up the price.

So ya, to retain you as a purchasing customer they can replace your $15 knife.

>>1052857
The irony to me is that people buy these knives for 'survival' but then don't care if the way they use them actually breaks the knife.

If you actually need a knife in a survival situation a warranty isn't going to help you if you break your knife.

But if you're just camping and you can easily replace or live without your knife then you're just playing at this whole 'survival' thing. It's this kind of poser that has shitty skills but passes them off as legitimate bushcrafting skills. All these dipshits on youtube and /out/ that baton through big logs and knots are entirely posers.

Then it becomes a cycle of the blind leading the blind. Now if your knife fails after you use it poorly it's always a "knife fail". No, 99% of the time it's a user fail.

>>1052557
>shitty half tang
Why would he even think of batoning with it

>>1052764
Actually, they don't say that at all,

https://eseeknives.com/about/esee-warranty/

>ESEE KNIVES ARE NOT THROWING KNIVES!
>We do not warranty against rust or normal wear and tear.
>We suggest you contact us before returning the knife since we do not warranty normal wear and tear, i.e. worn or scratched coating, dull edge, lost hardware, etc.

>We would rather idiots not buy our knives.

kek

>No questions asked

Oh really? Because:

https://eseeknives.com/warranty-form/

>Description of Problem:*

Is something you are required to fill out.

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>>1052764
>>1053046
http://www.bladeforums.com/threads/the-esee-warranty-does-not-cover-handles-or-sheath.1323525/

>batonny chop chop babby bushkekker breaks handle while batonny choppitty chopping
>ESEE won't replace it
>his face when

>>1052863
Yes, one should get a knife for general bushcraft and learn how to properly use it for many techniques, including batoning and feathersticks and felling a thin tree quickly etc.

Unfortunately some people think that when they wake up bruised and bleeding in a ravine they can simply unwrap the plastic packaging of their serrated tacti-edge black cancerogenic coated Survival Knife and wave it around without a clue and make their overweight frame survive. And more generally, use tools without clue how to use the tools.

Good quality knives do not break when batoning correctly a properly sized and formed piece of wood. Good quality knives do not have to cost hundreds of dollars and be adorned with militaristic aggressive designs, that is simply marketing aimed at mall ninjas. My current knife is a Mora Companion, it works wonders for general use and does not break the bank. This is not to say it is the only choice, there are certainly other knives with excellent price/quality ratios too.

Bottom line: get a sensible knife and learn how to use it for many purposes and techniques. And ignore the clicktrap batoning/knife destruction videos, they are made for idiots by idiots. Instead, learn it yourself. Start with small pieces of wood, this way you won't break your knife and learn a useful skill too.

>>1053046
i'm guessing some people blatantly abused their old policy so they changed it. when i tried to check it was currently unavailable yesterday.

>>1053050
handles or sheet
can you not read? the blade is the knife and they used to replace it, now it looks like changed their mind.

>>1053291
>including batoning

Dude, that's tool abuse.

>>1053046

They ask how you broke it for research, you dumbass.

Lets say if a bunch of people sent in a description of "Esee 6 tip breaks off easily when prying" They can read thay, go and if they wanted, thicken the tip a bit and fix the issue.

>>1053291
>Good quality knives do not break when batoning correctly a properly sized and formed piece of wood.

Agreed, but the point I've been trying to make, repeatedly, is that the 'survival' youtube university bushcraft from the keyboard tacticool dipshit community has zero consideration for wood selection and always blame the knife for their poor usage.

Most of these guys couldn't survive more than a few days at best, but if you ask them about it they'll tell you the may need to baton, even if it breaks their knife. They have no idea how to really bushcraft but they're sure that a good knife should be able to baton through a knotted up 8" log because they'll die without the ability to do that.

You can't tell them differently either because there's this masturbatory community of keyboard bushcrafters all repeating misinformation to each other. They're filled with a false sense of confidence and knowledge and they don't want to be told differently. It's the blind leading the blind.

>>1053354
>"no questions asked"
>asks questions
>refuses to replace under warranty

Don't be a n00b. It is Jewry as always, anon.

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>>1049376

>using a thin fucking blade
>chopping through a knot
>knife got stuck? Batony chop HARDER
>doesn't notice the damage and slams his knife triumphantly into a log

This was perfect.

>>1053379
>You can't tell them differently either because there's this masturbatory community of keyboard bushcrafters all repeating misinformation to each other.
like? who are you referring here?

>>1053379
>masturbatory community

"Circle Jerk" is the correct term.

>>1053554
Everyone that practices batoning incorrectly. Every 'knife review' done by some inexperienced dipshit whose only qualification is the other dipshits he's watched on youtube. You know, the kind of guy that will tell you about survival tools but has never spent a couple weeks surviving solely out of a backpack.

Unfortunately that kind of dipshit is still well represented on /out/

>>1053565
Ok, but circle jerks are a communal masturbatory activity. I think they both work.

>>1053587
>Unfortunately that kind of dipshit is still well represented on /out/
yeah who are you talking about you make it sound like every thread is crawling with them.

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>>1053661
>every thread is crawling with them.

Welcome to /out/. How long have you been here today?

>>1053667
Why the fuck did he bother shaving them down for

>>1047607
Where are you going to find logs and no sticks?

>>1053673
In The Land Of Stupid Justifications

>>1053673
State Park, like in webm: >>1049125

>>1051393
I love how they always hold the knife up to the camera like it's defective or somthing. No matter how many times it happens they will always think it's the knife's fault.

>>1051384
So you're just being contrarian so you can feel like you're smarter than everyone.

>>1051418
It fucking broke. Imagine that.

>>1053680
Oh so only when you're car camping and it's completely unnecessary because you could have brought an axe like everyone else.

>>1053680
Hey dipshit, he was car camping. He's literally right beside the car he should have used to bring a hatchet. This isn't an example of a survival still, this is a demonstration of the worst possible way to employ the technique. And YOU, coming to that fool's defense, are a great example of the youtube university group masturbatory mentality that's propagating the misinformation.

You subscribe to shit ideas.

>>1053691
>>1053700

I know right! "hurr durr how dis hapen??"

>>1047550
This technique would be the early stages of making a long bow or making rope from wood or even wicker.

Not 4 firewood

>>1053673
Try travelling

>>1053673
You make logs from wrist thick wood unless you like trying to burn ice laced with wood fiber?

>>1053696
don't know about everyone, but smarter than you that's for certain.

>>1053667
so you can't provide a single example to your claims but still state it's "everywhere". i see.

>>1047577
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oaDMKC6d7s

The fake subtitles are much funnier than the comments sadly.

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>>1052947
>batoning
>life or death

>>1052763
so this is the true power of knives...

>>1054109
It can be. It is just one technique also you might use, should you ever venture to real /out, instead of roaming only the park behind the local 7-11 where you blow hobos for crack.

>>1054111
no
this is the power of the knife: >>1051999

>>1052763
is it just me but it looks like that knife has some quick release for the blade. it didn't even broke just came out.

>>1054427
yup definitely the sawblade is interchangeable with the knife blade with the same handle. what the fuck is that thing?

>>1054428
>what the fuck is that thing?

A piece of trash.

>>1054341
>Baton risking risking your knife while creating sub par sticks VS using your knife properly to make something like feather sticks or just making a fire from debris that can be found on the ground
>Expecting a life or death situation where all you have is a log that you magically can't make a feather stick or normal tinder without batonny chop chop

>>1053291
>Good quality knives do not break when batoning correctly a properly sized and formed piece of wood

There's always some in a batch that gets a less than perfect heat treat and they'll fail.

You won't get a replacement from the manufacturer when batoning.

>>1049125
Brings folding chairs, but not a fucking hatchet?

>>1054503
How do you make feather sticks from even wrist thick logs? Yes, any feather like surface will burn given dry wood, but even with dry wood, starting fire is way easier if the featherstick is made from smaller pieces of wood.

A convenient way to get smaller pieces of drier wood is to split the bigger piece of wood.

Batoning does not "risk your knife" unless you are one of those idiots in the batoning videos who have no technique, no clue and no proper tool.

> arguing with some n00b

mfw

>>1054547
This is why you practise with a dry run instead of a real live situation. If your knife is of a shit batch or shit brand it should reveal itself.

>>1054547
> less than perfect heat treatment

Avoid such manufacturers, they have QA issues. Breakage can happen with other use, too.

>>1054547
Boy I sure hope not or else I have some explaining to do to LM about the Lightning 2.

No, no quality HT plant would let a piece of shit out the door.

>>1054799
frankly it's cheaper to have 98-99% of your products turn out well with a sound production process with little to no qa especially no piece by piece xrays and ultrasounds and other imaging tests and stress tests and replace without question any tool that breaks due to faults. it's better for the customer as it gets good quality for way less price than a 99.9% line. it's where the world is headed.

the issues with batoning are special many knife should stand up to batoning if it's done right and them breaking is a quality issue but the manufacturer has to rule out intentional abuse of it's policy which would unfairly cut into profits and they can't really check your story about what did you actually do.

>>1054791
>Having access to wrist size logs in a survival situation
And more specifically.
>Batonning wrist size logs.
Not even the sami are this stupid.

>>1054893

> claims to be know-it-all /out
> no clue about Betula pubescens subsp. czerepanovii
> no clue how big it gets
> no clue how thick it gets
> no clue
> whole planet is backyard redwood
> basement command center certified professional
> why don't they eat cake instead

mfw

>>1054893
Leuku can have a 40 cm long blade or more. Not a US /outist but I doubt even in Texas people have wrist diameters of 40 cm. Maybe this is more likely 1/3 of the blade or so.

Using a knife to split wood with diameter of something less than1/3 of diameter of the blade is not OK according to you?

Why?

Because some Powered By Marketing shit meme knives fail at it even with a proper technique?

Did this happen to you? You spent several hundred dollars to a shit meme knife and you thought you had a super weapon, then it failed while doing one of the simplest techniques there is?

Who is the babby now (rhetorical question - you are). Good night.

>>1055148
>He uses a tree which is smaller than the average wrist as an example.
>A tree which you could easily process without batonny chop chop.
>He assumes that he knows where I live.
>>1055159
>He also assumes that he knows where I live.
The only knife I've been using for the past year is a Puukko which my brother made for me.
Should I just go and ASK some of the Sami around here if they actually use the Leuku instead of just keeping a hatchet with them on the snowmobiles they regularly use when moving the rendeer?

>>1047766
Can't tell what he's carrying when his knife breaks
looks like an fnx 45

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>>1053565

>>1055170
Ask instead what they traditionally used to chop wood, it sure was not a hatchet and no saw.

>>1054778
The youtube university batonitards.

>>1054881
>batoning if it's done right and them breaking is a quality issue

Have you learned nothing here? It's almost never the knife's fault. It's very nearly always the users poor selection of wood.

Listen horse, here's the water ffs.

>>1055505
So where did you get your Sami Degree? Youtube university? I think so.

>>1055505
It doesn't matter what they USED to do.
People used to live like nomads but farming is still the superior system for a society.
Batonning is a shit and completely redundant system.

>if you break something while abusing a tool it must be wood selection, technique, or knife quality at fault

Or, you know, you are a tard who abuses your tools.

>>1055601
>>1055628
>>1055650

> anti-batoning tirades
> "tool abuse"

You sound so butthurt. Was this the first time you heard about the Sami?

The whole discussion is about batoning. You claim it never works, the knife is invariably destroyed and no-one has ever used it either, and it is irrelevant and useless and there are no valid uses for it.

Despite given evidence to the contrary, which invalidates your claims, you keep on going, and by now it is obvious you just have absolutely no clue. It is rather useless to repeat myself to you.

> axe/hatchet modern times

If you go lightweight even in modern times, an axe is quite a heavy thing to carry. Even a hatchet is not really a necessity. Unless you want to chop down an entire adult pine tree and then saw it to pieces, I see little use for an axe. In my locales doing this for random trees is not legal, you can chop on your own land of course. I carry no axe and no firearm, I don't need to.

> sticks/lower branches

Might be an option depending on season, location, altitude, weather and types of trees. For example, around here pines have lowest branches at 3-5 meters, often hard to collect those for pine.

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>>1047577
work of god

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>>1048821
>when you dont got an axe you idiot

>>1055668
>no-one has ever used it either
>You claim it never works
Good lord, I guess you don't have anything to go on so you just make up arguments.
I've not argued about either of those.
>It never works
In a worthwhile way
>Putting your tool through unnecessary abuse while using a redundant method just because it looks neat.
You sound like a living meme, guess the way you space your posts confirm that.
>You claim no one used it
Except for the part where I acknowledge that people used it I suppose.

>Hatches are heavy and I'm weak bwaaaah
Even then, last I checked at least. We were taught how to make feather sticks instead of how to batonny chop chop over here in Lappland, though they were more focused on using the bark of a tree to make a fire, as it is generally the method with the least amount of effort.
Yes, we had classes on how to make fires in our mandatory education.
We also made Puukko knives in craftsmanship classes, at least our version of it, again, mandatory.

>>1055668
>>1055679
Our versions then being the ones where rather than the sheath being relatively thin on the lower part we use a piece of reindeer horn as the entire lower part and only have leather on the upper part.
I don't know if they're called anything special, after all, we just call them knives.

Batonny chop chop is a shitty strategy that is easily surpassed by most other techniques. And the tacticool suburban ninjas (presumably such as yourself) using it to such a bad effect has made it into a meme.

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>>1055668
>abuse tool
>tool breaks
>whine about it online
>people tell you it is "tool abuse"
>write an essay about proper tool abuse techniques

You shouldn't abuse your tools, anon. Especially, in your armchair survival situations. Once the tool is broke, there's no coming back from that.

>>1055679
>Hatches are heavy and I'm weak bwaaaah

Actually, those large knives that batonny babbies use for batonny chop chop weigh as much as a small hachet. Thus, weight can't be an excuse.

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>>1055684
I highly doubt that, unless maybe if you're using one of these "hatchets" rather than a proper one.

I'm not american, I live in brazil. camped in two places, the savannah and the atlantic rainforest. I never actually had to use logs for anything with the exception of when there was a large group of people and was more of a party than a camp. Why don't you use branches, leaves and other stuff to start a fire?

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>>1055685
Those Fiskers 14" hatchets are 1lbs to 1.5lbs depending on model and design. I think the older ones of some models are lighter than the newer ones of the same model.

Lots of knives are in that weight range. Obviously, not pocket knives, but those "survival" knives. Especially, the tarded ones that are as long as the hatchets or the ones where the company actually listened to batonny babbies and made the blade far thicker than normal.

This 9" knife weights 28.0 ounces for instance.

>>1055689
See
>>1047613

The left side is for North Americans with more money and time than sense.

>>1055690
Damn, that's really heavy, I thought you meant something like the Leuku, figured since the previous guy mentioned those, seems those generally clock in at about half to 2/3 of that knife in terms of weight. Presumably including the sheath.

>>1055697
>>1055690
Also I mean the hatchet.
The ones I found were one just under 500 grams and the other just under 400.

>>1055698
>>1055689
>>1055690
also why americans suddenly use grams when they talk about camping but still use galons and feet for other measurements?

>>1055699
Hey there. I'm the guy talking about Grams. The guy from Lappland, Sweden >>1055679
Americans don't use real measurements, their measurements are essentially just variants of "a ways" and "way a ways".

>>1055697
Only the blade is 9". It is a pretty tough knife, but only because it is large and thick. So thick that it is basically a long hatchet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b45HqzdaVck

>>1055699
We use, among other things:

Grain
Dram
Gram
Pound
Gallon
Inch
Feet

Like bullets are in grains and flavoring oils are in drams while drugs are in grams and kilos.

>>1055702
Can you really call that thing a knife? It's arguably closer to a machete.
Honestly seems more tedious to carry with you if you're going light than actually just getting one of those axes would be.

>>1055704
It was just the extreme example in the knife range. There's a ton of smaller knives that are also heavy. Just google the weight of whatever knife and compare.

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>>1055705
I went on to the Hultafors website and they even had one of these proper hatchets, it's even slightly lighter than the one you used as an example.
At only half a kilogram there's almost no reason not to carry one with you while hiking. Assuming you don't just use the small fallen branches.

>>1055719
Someone gifted me a tiny camp hatchet one year. It was about 8 inches long and weighed less than my wallet. I never used it, since I rarely ever need a knife or axe when I'm camping since twigs are a thing and I don't bushkek. Though, whittling and carving is a good time sink if you have nothing better to do or a chatting with friends.

>>1055668
Cherry picking fag. I've been saying the practice is turned to shit because youtube university doesn't teach wood selection. All it teaches is "buy big knife, split any logs, now we r bushcraft"

Wood selection is the key to this. If you have to hit your knife really hard or hit it on the handle side, you've selected the wrong piece of wood. Also, knots and grain straightness.

But you probably don't know much about straightness.

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>>1055830
>proper tool abuse techniques

Sure thing, kid.

>>1055861
Ya well, I'm not talking bout the faggoty shit people are doing in these videos. I'm talking about splitting small logs with no knots, straight grain, never having to hit the knife on the handle or really hard on the tip.

If you take care to select your wood well, and you only baton when you can't find easily available kindling, it's a useful technique.

You can carve yourself a few wedges to split larger logs.

Those are the facts boyo, you can believe what you want.

>>1055888
but why split them reee

>>1055901
Sometimes the heart wood is dryer and split wood burns better. I mostly do it to make kindling and get the fire going. Once lit, I just burn the wood as I find it, UNLESS the wood is a little wet, then I'll extract heartwood until the fire is large enough to burn the other logs as is.

>>1055940
I've never once been unable to start a fire using a feather stick even with a wet frozen feather stick. The tinder is always able to dry out enough to get things going.

>>1056024
Cool story bro.

>>1056024
i have, not even the feather-sticks lit up unless with the storm lighter. the humidity was awful and you could wring water out of wood shavings.

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>>1056024
>The tinder is always able to dry out enough to get things going.
The problem is you don't always have dry tinder. If the feather stick is even slightly wet, it will not light with a match or a BIC.

Rubber inner tube of a bicycle tire is excellent for getting things going. I learned this from either Uncle Ray or Bushtucker man. Either way, it works and it should be a part of every fire kit.

>wet frozen feather stick.
Both air and snow are dry when it's very cold. By snow being dry I mean it rather absorbs water than gives it away. Just because a piece of wood is covered in snow doesn't mean it's wet. Here in the north it's generally not a problem to find dry wood during the winter, as long as you have the tools to cut and split wood.

>>1056451
>the humidity was awful and you could wring water out of wood shavings.
And this is why you should always carry a splitting tool, be it an axe or a batoning knife to get dry inner wood. Even then, there's no guarantee you'll get a fire going. The exposed dry wood of feather sticks will quickly absorb the humidity from the air. When conditions are bad enough and you don't have resources required (like man-made tinder, or a splitting tool) you will not be able to get a fire going, no matter how skilled you (think you) are.

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>>1056495
>The problem is you don't always have dry tinder

Jesus fucking Christ, kid. Do you not have a lighter or matches either?

> If the feather stick is even slightly wet, it will not light with a match or a BIC.

I see you've never tried it in your entire life.

Based on just 1 sentence, i surmise you are an armchair outist who has no actual experience.

>semantics on snow, wettness, and....and fucking humidity absorbing feathersticks

Holy shit. Stop posting.

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>>1056504
I'm an armchair outist (and a mall ninja) with zero experience. I have lots of knives, mostly BG line, some swords. Never been out in my life. Never used an axe. Happy now?

>Jesus fucking Christ, kid. Do you not have a lighter or matches either?
I'm not a kid. As for tinder, it's quite normal to go out without it, but no sane /out/ person would go without a lighter, on purpose.

>I see you've never tried it in your entire life.
The energy of a burning 'feather' is not enought to both dry the wet wood and maintain the fire. You can light a single feather, but in the time you get a second one burning, the first one has already died out. When this happened to me, I couldn't believe it, couldn't understand it. I tried with different feather sticks but with the same result. The wood was driest inner wood I could find, and it felt like dry. Anyway I decided to burn a full box of matches at once and it worked. Feather sticks catched fire almost instantly, but my point is they didn't with a match or lighter alone. And yes, I have made some feather sticks so I don't think my techinque was an issue.

Where I live there's always tinder to be found but it's not hard to imagine a situation where you will be fucked without pre-packed tinder.

>semantics on snow, wettness, and....and fucking humidity absorbing feathersticks
Many people here have never experienced a real winter, nor tried lighting a fire in other than perfect conditions. It's not uncommon people here think they can always 'find' dry fire wood and 'why carry and axe when you can burn sticks in a dakota fire hole' etc. The worse the conditions, the more you need fire and the more you need tinder and kindling to get that rain soaked wood burning and it takes time, enought time to get those feather sticks wet, especially if youre were dumb enough to make them first.

>>1056584
>'m an armchair outist (and a mall ninja) with zero experience. I have lots of knives, mostly BG line, some swords. Never been out in my life. Never used an axe. Happy now?

The rest of your post proves this.

>>1056584
Well said, Sir.

And indeed, The Dakota firehole guy or whoever the fuck she is, is just painful to read for many reasons.

As an example: digging a fucking hole in the winter with permafrost is a LOT of work. If you are wet and shivering, there are better ways to spend the little energy you have to get a fire started.

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Was going to make a rocket stove out of some tin cans but then I remembered I got one of these things for christmas. Pretty cool little gadget. Puts out a good deal of heat with very little smoke using twigs and kindling.

>>1055685
thats a neat lookin hatchet. any idea what the model is for mall ninja purposes?

>>1056927
I have no idea what it is, I just googled "Tactical hatchet" for meme purposes.

>>1056770
But >>1056584 is the only person who mentioned the Dakota fire hole. He's just making up bullshit scenarios for his mall ninja LARP.

>>1056931
No, there is some anti batoning person here who posts the Dakota pic every time someone questions his/her thesis that all wood burns always no matter what climate, weather, type, etc.

>>1056869
Version 1 outputs continuously 2 Watts (0.4 A).

Version 2 outputs continuously 3 Watts (0.6 A).

The things weights 2 lb, almost 1kg. I would rather carry 1kg worth of powerpacks. That would give me more than 28 000 mAh using company's own IPX6 rated power packs. Making the same mAh with the newer stove would take more than 46 hours of keeping the fire burning.

>>1056940
> 46+ h to charge
The pile of sticks must be massive.

>>1056940
too each their own.

>>1056936
You seem to be confusing several things and rolling them into 1 thing. Which is making up bullshit scenarios. Batonny babbies can't into logic.

>>1056962
Give it a rest, you have not been able to refute actual arguments in a long time, Ohio man.

>>1056584
>As for tinder, it's quite normal to go out without it
lolled before i realized you are not talking about the app

>>1057222
Tool abuse is tool abuse, there's nothing to refute, kid.

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>>1047577
my fucking sides

>>1057352
>Tool abuse is
when your mom batons your ass

>>1051418
steel is stronger than wood though how could this happen?? clearly an inferior knife

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>>1057383
>clearly an inferior knife
true. you can try the same with any $0.50 machete from 3rd world country and this won't happen. they will twist and deform but not break. take a piece of iron with same dimensions and try to break it by banging it with a piece of wood. your wood breaks.

correctly hardened and heat treated knife of that size should not break in that situation and certainly not where this knife broke. why are batoning/chopping knives more brittle than axes?

>>1055683
Ganzo knives are bad. I had a different Ganzo with similar lock and it didn't lock properly. The lock piece didn't move all the way to the locking position. The knife on your video has the same fault. If it was well made, the wood would split or the lock would break, the locking piece would not move backwards. it's not supposed to.

Another ganzo that I still have has a liner lock that doesn't lock properly. It's the one that looks like a big Spyderco.

I don't know where this video is from, but it looks like it was made to show viewers how bad ganzo is. The guy hits the tip of the blade instead of middle.

>>1056584
>As for tinder, it's quite normal to go out without it

I was in the Scout shop the other day and they have a list of survival essentials and "fire starting material" is on there and so is "pocket knife", not "stupid batoning knife you're going to break anyways"

The oldest civilian outdoor club would seem to disagree with your goofy internet meme ideas because they're smart and your an idiot. The average 12 year old scout is better at survival than you are.

>>1057539
When you baton an axe into a log there's next to zero leverage being applied to the axe head. Also, axes are thick.

High carbon steels get much harder than medium carbon steels, but they hold an edge longer. Axes are made from medium carbon steels (1045 or similar typically) because it's more shock resistant and more flexible in a hardened state.

1095 is a really common "survival" and "bushcraft" knife blade steel but it's usually heat treated way too hard to make a flexible, shock absorbing tool. Add some leverage to that and "snap", there goes your knife.

>>1057539
Good axes are forge-welded from 2 pieces of different types of metal with different amounts of carbon in them. The head is softer and the edge is harder. Knives are forged or stock removed from 1 type of metal. Some artisan knives use special techniques for forge-welding, but are normally for making patterning in the knife instead of being functional like that of an axe.

Skip to 4mins into this video to see what I'm talking about (5mins for badass pipe lighting):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr4VTCwEfko

>>1057669
>tfw Cub Scout then Boy Scout then Eagle Scout and never heard of batoning with a knife until youtube existed.

It was like discovering how other people put on shoes by hitting themselves in the nuts.

>>1057669
The Scouts you've met must be pretty limited in their skills since for example Finnish Scouts do know this skill. In their wiki they state:

>Puun lohkominen puukolla
>
>Selvästi puukonterän pituutta ohuempia klapeja voi lohkoa pienemmiksi säleiksi esim. tulentekoa varten asettamalla puukko pystyynostetun klapin päätyyn ja kolkuttelemalla terän hamarapuolta toisella puukappaleella. Kun puu antaa merkkejä halkeamisesta, kierrä kahvaa jolloin säle irtoaa. Puukon tulee olla tukevaa tekoa ettei se vahingoitu ja klapin riittävän pieni että halkaisu on mahdollista. Myöskin oksat estävät halkaisun, joten valitse halkaistava pala huolella.

I'll just let you machine translate it, or if you are too lazy I'll human translate it myself.

This technique which you call batoning has been around basically forever. The Youtube idiots have popularized their version of batoning as a special expression of their infinite retardedness - it is about a poor choice of tools, material and bad techniques with the sole purpose of destroying a knife.

>>1057669
>Scout shop
>they have a list of survival essentials
Of course fire starting material is a survival essential. It's just not as essential as a lighter or a knife. Rain gear is also a survival essential, that doesn't mean I have a rain poncho and tarp with me at all times.

>pocket knife
You choose a pocket knife only if other knives are banned in your country.

Another thing. You do realize that your list was almost certainly written by someone who just copied it from the Internets? That and survival guides in general are full of incorrect information and ill advice. Please do yourself a favor and learn to think yourself. Some list in a hipster fashion shop should be the last place to get advice for anything.

I don't know where this Scout Shop is, but if it's in the UK then consider this:
There are practically no forests on British Isles. Knives, other than toys, are banned in UK. If you dress normally and carry, say Bushlore knife, the police will take your knife and probably lock you up. That's why there are so many UK bushkek youtube channels. Youtube is an easy way to prove you have a right to have a knife, assuming you know what a word right means. I think you're from UK and full on anger and frustration, because you're too afraid to get that 8 inch batoning knife you dream about.

>>1057778
>Mitäs vittua? Tää puukon lyöminen puun katkaisussa ja halkomisessa on ihan perusjuttuja Mors Kochanskinkin mielestä. En oo ollu partiossa mut kyl tää mustakin on ihan perusasia ja itsestään selvä juttu vaikkei lukisi missään.

>>1055683

I was waiting for a finger to go flying on that one.

>>1057699
Oh that's bullshit. The only time forge welding yielded a better product or was necessary for an axe is when it was difficult to make homogeneous high carbon steel, or when the high carbon stuff was expensive.

Your 200 Swedish axe is always or nearly always a homogeneous piece of steel.

>>1057702
This guy knows what's up.

>>1057778
Canadian scouts go on week(s) long camps without needing to baton a single fucking thing. I knew a few real bushmen and the would never risk their knives this way when they could start a fire another way. I do agree there is a correct and useful way to do this but the youtube idiot machine has distorted it to the point of ruin.

>>1057858
There it is, possibly the stupidest thing I'll read today. Where do I start.

For my entire life of being in Scouts and having my children in Scouts (up to the Venture level) having a big knife has never been important. Being prepared is important. And I'm in Canada. At least in my province (or maybe the whole country? I'm not sure) there is no law limiting knife size.

>copied it from the Internets...hipster fashion shop

I can't decide if I think you're trolling me or you should wear a helmet all the time.

>don't need fire starter
>don't need shelter
>don't need water purification
>don't need food
>batoning is all I need. With one tool I can meet all my survival needs... at least that's what they sell me, er I mean tell me, on the Internet.

>>1057858
> No niinpä. En tajua tätä patonkiäijää, suu kuolassa julistaa miten puukot halkeaa ja miten halkomista ei tarvitse koskaan mihinkään. Kuvittelee kai että koko planeetta on täynnä yksipuulajikkeista metsää joissa puista pudonnutta, pudotessaan jo valmiiksi savuavaa ja kosketuksesta syttyvää kuivaa ja helvetin paksua oksaa on maat ja mannut täynnä, mutta eihän se nyt ihan noin ole.

>>1058094
Could it just be a cultural thing?
Leuku is a big knife and is intended to split wood and work with wood otherwise, too. Also it might be easier to manufacture than an axe using traditional methods. I don't know enough about Canada to know if there were traditionally big knives used in some places or if axes were prevalent.

>>1058528
Possibly. All I can tell you is:
>batoning is being done incorrectly by internet warriors
>You can camp and survive without it
>Axes are common for car camping but most guys don't take one on a hike in camp, unless they're in a group, then maybe one guy brings an axe of some sort.