When it comes to load, how much is too much?

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>>1028626
Use a game cart. In fact, put all your gear on it, not just your extra shit. Free yourself up.

>>1028633
>car camper detected.

Personally over 30lb starts to get uncomfortable. I usually aim for 20lb plus camera gear, but it obviously varies per.season

>>1028643
Those carts are rated at 500lbs and 750lbs depending on model. The massive diameter tires allow you to haul a full load through all manner of terrain for miles and miles without problem. That's specifically why hunters use them.

If you think car camping is hiking 10-15 miles from where you parked your car then yes, I car camp all the time.

>>1028648
I can't see me dragging a trailer up mountain trails. What happens when you get to.scramble?

If I were so unfit or carrying so much weight that I needed mechanical . assistance I'd buy a push bike and panniers.

Obviously it.might be useful for hunters

>>1028650
I've never been through a place that I couldn't maneuver the cart. Then again I don't hike trails either. That allows me to go where ever I please to find the best path. The worst part about the mountains here are the boulders that sometimes block hiking and you have to find a way around.

>>1028626
iirc general rule of thumb is up to 1/3 body weight.

that being said, i've carried 65+ lb packs for multiday climbing trips in the high sierra at 160 lbs (40%) and haven't had a problem, but i definitely wouldn't exceed 30 lb in my wife's pack (25%). so, like everything else, it's individually dependent.

You should be able to bicep curl your pack with one arm

>>1028699
>1/3 body weight.

So about 150lbs? No thanks.

>>1028749
lol

>>1028651
You obviously don't climb mountains.

>>1028633
Hello Kansasbro

>>1028633
>>1028648
>>1028651
>driving your shopping cart 15 miles crosscountry
riiiiight

I'm not ultralight by any means, but idnyour pack is over 20 lbs you're just packing the wrong stuff.

My base weight is 15 lbs and I literally own nothing that's considered ultra light besides maybe my down quilts.

I use a 15L camelbackpack with no bladder, it weighs about 10 lbs. Everything i dont bring i source in the woods.

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Depends on the person. Some don't mind lugging around 50 pounds. My baseweight is 8 pounds for 4 seasons in my area, with food and water, about 14 pounds. I don't like feeling the weight of a pack on me, so I wen UL and I don't even notice it.

>>1028812
> 8 lbs base
> 14 lbs with food and water
How are you bringing such a small amount of food/water?

There's only a few possibilities I can think of:
1. Extremely low TDEE (<2000 Calories)
2. Only bringing enough food/water for 1 (maybe 2) nights out (you'd still have to be eating pretty much straight olive oil or candy bars)
3. Not eating enough while out and are relying on body fat for energy

How do you do it?

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>>1028651

>I've never been through a place that I couldn't maneuver the cart. Then again I don't hike trails either.

> Then again I don't hike trails either.

>I don't hike trails


So what the fuck use is it when /out/?

>>1028790
>My base weight is 15 lbs

>>1028812
>My baseweight is 8 pounds

What are you packing for, just only hiking and nothing else? Do you have to switch out items regularly for different trip and weather conditions, or does your kit cover most situations?

>>1028790
Dude I'm right there with you. I usually pack simple not light. I tend to avoid bringing a bunch of things- not because I'm afraid of the weight per se but more because hiking is an inherently simple activity and the more shit you bring the more it distracts from it. A lighter pack is a nice side effect rather than a goal.

I always think it's funny when some "ultralight" guy comes along and has a ton of little gadgets and shit. Sure the pieces are light, but it still all adds up.

The funny part of it is that there will never be a minimalist fad in hiking- not unless someone comes up with a way to make money off of it. Since it's all about having less things and not focusing on the things you do bring, I don't think it'll take off any time soon, which is fine by me.

>>1028812
Sick UL setup, but you will probably get shit from this board, as there is a bias against that type of backpacking. Do you have a lighterpack link or gear loadout you can share?

>>1028782
You pull them. Never push them. You can go over pretty much anything when pulling them.

>>1028776
>climbing is now hiking

Sure thing, kid.

>>1028828
There are only game trails here, no hiker trails. You can't hike on the game trails with a cart because they usually follow a slant and are really narrow. Thus, I just walk through where ever I please.

>>1028899
liar

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>>1028899
I don't know why you're catching so much heat anon. Game carts are made, bought, and used because they're viable for getting weight into and out of backwoods areas.

When I was thru hiking the AT and up in Maine we were sitting at a shelter and along comes a fucking goat. He walks right up to the pine next to the shelter and starts munching on the needles. He had on a pack frame and bags and was a pretty big motherfucker (like Great Dane size). His owner comes walking up - cool as a cucumber - like 2 min later, with just a water bottle in hand. He explained that he loves hiking, but hated carrying packs so he made one for his goat and takes that shit hiking with him. I want this.
>bigger than a dog, can carry more
>eats anything, don't need to carry food
>pretty damn faithful, won't run off
>hardy, just sleeps wherever, don't need to worry about finding it shelter in most weather conditions.

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>>1028633
If it's good enough for Aragorn it's good enough for me!

>>1028837
15 lbs for me is 3 seasons, if I'm going winter I have a heavier tarp and quilts so I'm about 18 lbs then. That's for backpacking and camping, not just hiking.

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I'm a sucker for military surplus and clunky external frames, so that right there already adds more lbs then I prolly should mess with. Most recently I've done a 15 mile trek with 45 lbs, but the weight isn't what gets to me, it's the lack of padding on my shoulder straps. Rubs into me like a mother fucker so that I gotta take a short break every hour and a half or so.

The rule of thumb I've adopted is to not exceed 1/5th my body weight, of which 45 lbs just barely skirts going over that limit.

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>>1028907
Yeah, I see pack goats here all the time. I'd considered renting some, but they are too much hassle really. I may try when I get some for my farm.

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i'm going to be over 11000' in the sierra for 4 days this month after the heaviest snow year in 30 years, and my base weight is ~27 lbs with an ice axe, light spikes and extra fuel for melting snow.

starting the day carrying 4l of water is gonna suck, but at least it will get lighter as i go, and it's better than having to stop and melt more.

>>1028927
I forgot to mention you could get a female and have fresh milk all the time.
>no more powdered shit
>>1028925
>I'm a sucker
you sure are! har har
But seriously, I like the milpsurp stuff too. I replaced the straps which made it a little better, but if you do your best to get more weight on your hips and strapping that shit in nice and tight focusing as much weight into the spot between your shoulderblades, it does feel a little better.

>>1028937
Why are you bringing an ice axe when there's no glaciers there

>>1028910
Can you list everything? My base weight is 22 lbs. for 3 seasons; I'm pretty new and still trying to figure out what I don't need.

My setup was originally intended to as a bugout bag though, so it probably has a lot of extras to repair / backup / sutain broken equipment.

It depends on the person. A little fragile weak person probably feels discomfort after 20-30lbs. My bag and everything in it is right around 45lb which includes my fishing gear and I've gone on 2-3 hiking/fishing trips hiking 20+ miles.

>>1028984
i'll be crossing four snow and ice covered, class 2-3, 12000' passes. i'll want an axe.

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>>1028990
It depends on the person. A little fragile weak person probably feels discomfort living outside without +30lbs of gear to make sure he's nice n coddled in camp after a big day hiking of 4-5miles.

>>1028702
70lbs?

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Depends for me honestly. I am quite the athlete though so I definetely don't represent the average /out/ user.

I can do 80 lbs and 10 miles a day
or
I can do 30 lbs and 30 miles a day

>>1029098
>dat pic
50% hilarious, 50% cringe

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>>1028899
>>climbing is now hiking

Sure thing, kid.

Did I say that?

If you go hillwalking there is often climbing and scrambling involved. Are you seriously telling me you think you'd have no impediment to climbing something like pic related which is part of a hillwalk I did last week.

>>1028984
Seems you know nothing at all about high altitude mountain climbing/trekking.

>>1029182
If I recall correctly, that is a promotional image from an event. The company makes those silver/slate color cases. I'm not even sure what they were. It's been posted several times though.

>>1029288
>hillwalking

That's just a hiking trip with no camping involved. Why would you carry any gear beyond a water bottle and a snack?

Regardless, when you are hiking into base camp with a few hundred pounds of equipment you always plan your route properly to avoid places you either can't go or would take too much time/wear you out too much. The type of cart you use also determines where you can go. A single wheel cart can go more places than a two wheel, but you can't carry as much on a single wheel cart. This is all common sense. If you want to nitpick, go ahead.

You shouldn't ever need to "scramble". if you absolutely must, then it is very simple. Use your rope. Hook the rope to the cart, "scramble" to the top, haul your cart up in a variety of ways depending on the environment and other equipment you have. Meaning if you know there's a "scramble" section you bring rope and pulley. If there are trees you use those, if not then use a rod or "hinge point" around the landscape. The point being, use your head.

>>1028820
I don't eat much at all while hiking that's why

>>1028990
>'ve gone on 2-3 hiking/fishing trips hiking 20+ miles.
lol, UL guy here, I do that in one day and feel like a million bucks after

>>1028868
Especially since all my stuff is Zpacks. People here hate their prices. I want to make my own gear, but I'm not there yet. So I had to pay thousands to get the weight I wanted.
I don't have lighter pack.

>>1029310
liar

>>1029371
So #3, don't you feel sluggish from this? How many days in a row do you run a severe calorie deficit?

>>1028925
Look into a "hellcat" alice pack. You basically use the MOLLE II frame, straps, and hip pad with an ALICE pack. Shit's legit.

>>1028626
I try not to let my packs get over 50# if I can avoid it. An 80#+ pack just fucking sucks and I avoid really heavy loads like that for my body's sake.

>>1029407
It's not severe, I still eat enough to keep my energy up, but I do get scrawny. I don't know why though, if I force myself to eat I throw up. My trips are never more than a week or two, not long enough for hiker hunger to set in, so I don't pack much food

>>1029469
iktfb
i just have no appetite when climbing, backpacking or mountaineering. if i force myself to eat i get nauseous, and if i don't i bonk hard in the afternoon. damned if you do, damned if you don't.

>>1028626
20kg is where 'too much' begins. It's just a case of packing lighter.

>>1029310
You're a dense motherfucker. I hill walk and camp, together, combined.

As.to your comment re scrambling, maybe it's a British term but it does not require roped climbing it refers to sections of a.mountain with scree, for example.if you go up a stoney coulouir.

The fact.is Yes a game cart is able to go off trail, but its designed as an alternative to humping your kill not hiking. You can put it to use hiking but it'll require extra energy and time and to be honest it's simply overkill for the kinds of weights most hikers are packing.

Tl;dr I'll be laughing all the way up the mountain when i pass you dragging your cart

>>1030005
My opinoin as well. Maybe up to 25 is acceptable for me if it's right in the beginning and I'm stacked up witch many days of food

>>1030016
>it does not require roped climbing

It dos if you want to take your cart through it.

I'm sorry you don't know anything about game carts and have never used one. There's no need to get horrifically asspained over it. I suppose that is to be expected of an untralighter.

>>1030022
You're trolling is getting worse.

You know nothing about what you're talking about and it's quite obvious to anyone with half a brain

>>1030016
nah, scrambling means the same thing in america, he's just goading you.

>>1030022
liar

>>1028927
Zero or dubs get

>>1030041
>>1030100
Taking a cart up a hillside that is nothing but loose stone is dangerous. You need to tie the cart off, go to the top, and haul it up via a rope. Do you people even /out/ at all or are you just armchair?

>>1030243
liar

>>1029288
>part of a hillwalk I did last week

you're my new hero
if you had a chest I'd pin a medal on it

>>1028790
Nigger I'm usually carrying over 20lbs in just water.

No, carrying less is NOT an option, because there's nowhere to refill.

>>1029308
They're folding tables anon.

>>1030441
They were more than just that though.

>>1028651
Jig's up pal. You've never left the house, have you?

I'm a big pussy and anything over 30lb makes my knees complain.

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>>1030332
fun climb

>>1028626
when you cannot do what you want comfortably. If you are only doing a 1 mile hike into the woods to camp, then you can bring alot. If you are hiking alot over alot of days over alot of ground, then you need a lighter load.

>>1028812
is that backpack water tight? dry bag style? Should I get a dry bag backpack or just get dry bags to use inside my backpack?

>>1030610
Get rubbish bags, or what do you call them in the US, trash compactors. Light and do the job.

>>1028626
The heaviest my pack has been is 18lb full loaded. That's with 3.5l of water, four days of food, and hiking in wet, coldish weather. If I'm hiking in the summer that will weight goes down fast.

I wouldn't want to carry >20lb full loaded.

>Base weight.
I don't buy the whole base weight obsession. It means nothing if you can't get your food right. I often see people who have got their base weight down so by some UL pack then chuck way toomuch food in it and push their total weight above the packs recommend load.

>>1030616
>18lbs with 3.5l, 4 days food and cold weather

That's only 10lbs for food and all your gear. You'd need to be naked and eating olive oil to make this work.

Honestly, post your gear and consumables list if you actually make this work. Otherwise I assume you are full of shit. This should be trivial if you care enough to get your weight down that low and think there is such a huge difference between 18 and 21lbs.

>base weight obsession
Just telling us final pack weight is useless. You pretty much have the same base weight during spring, summer, fall with maybe 1 or 2 small changes. You need a little more gear for winter. But there can be a huge variation in final pack weight depending on climate, duration and access to potable water during the trip.

Backpack Death Valley after the streams dry up and you need to pack in 2-3 L of water per day you are out. That can easily end up being more than you base weight in water alone for long trips. That's why people discuss and compare base weight.

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Ah yeas, this thread.

I've been looking for this thread.

The thread where /out/ist share their load outs and random anons, who never go out, do their best to nitpick them with made up scenarios and psychological projections of their own life failures.

I needed this thread.

>>1030616
We just call them trash bags. Trash compactor bags are nice because they are designed to work with trash compactors- meaning they are much more puncture resistant and can stretch a lot more. I bought a box of "Contractor Clean-up" bags on sale at a hardware store- pretty much the same thing. If you buy a box of 30 it's pretty much a life-time supply (I've only gone through 3 I think? Been using them about 8-9 years now).

>>1031494
Contractor bags are too big to be useful for /out/ and heavy.

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>>1031572
>Contractor bags
>heavy

This you?

>>1031645
>enjoys carrying useless weight
You should use the right tool for the job. Contractors bags are thick plastic to prevent piercing and ripping. They are larger than any backpack you would reasonably need to carry. Unless you really suck at packing, you don't need to worry about ripping or piercing a regular trash bag for household waste.

It's more expensive and heavier than the more readily available trash bags. They are also 2-4x larger than most packs. Anyone using contractor bags has gone out of their way to use a worse product.

What do you guys even need to keep dry?

My setup only my sleeping gear (bag, down jacket, baselines, spare socks) are in a 35l dry bag. Cook kit doesn't need a dry bag, neither does my hammock. Tarp does go into a dry bag but that's to keep its wetness in. Food goes in a regular shopping bag that then becomes the rubbishbag.

So two dry bags, cost me all.of twenty bucks..not a big investment

>>1031692
If I expect rain, I bring a cover for my pack. I'd rather not carry the added water weight if I can help it.

I also don't keep the majority of my belongings in a dry bag.

>>1031709
I use nikwax on my bag. It's reasonably water resistant so I rarely bother with my pack cover. Plus when it's on I can't reach back into the side pockets while wearing

>>1031651
90lbs dripping wet confirmed.

>>1028925
dear god.. hopefully you can save up some money and invest in better gear in the future

>>1031651
>>1031572
I knew this shit would come up. Yes they are heavier, no they are not the wrong tool for the job.

They make different sizes and you can cut them down. I hate using trashbags because they rip and accumulate holes too quickly. To me it makes sense to have something a little more robust for the +2-3grams(?) Wet gear is significantly heavier and more inconvenient than that.

I've thru hiked, so I know my preference when it comes to weight and durability. This fetishisation of weight is something I find hilarious about the edgier ultralight kiddos.

>>1028626
ask your mother

>>1031760
Don't worry, he's an ultra light faggot. I bring cast iron cookware with my on all my trips where I'll be cooking. Contractor trashbags are great. I always carry 4 of them when I'm trail hiking in the local state park so I can pick up trash along the trails. I dump their contents out back at the lodge and keep the bags for next time.

>>1031763
curious to know how many miles you do...

>>1031787
>miles are important
>not enjoying being /out/ in a way that makes you happy
lol. i pretty much max out at 12 miles a day, whether i'm carrying 50 lbs or 5 lbs. fatigue isn't a factor, i'm just never interested in walking further than that in a single go.

>>1031787
Usually no more than 15 with gear. 30 without, but on actual maintained trials. Not very far without maintained trails since this place is a rainforest and the undergrowth can be pretty nasty (30mins to hack through 30 feet type thing). The mountains here are much better, due to elevation, and I can go for about 20 miles in the back country. But, all that is when I have a destination in mind and want to get to base camp asap. When I'm hiking for enjoyment it doesn't matter at all.

>>1031763
I like that you pick up trash homie. Thanks for doing that.

Can't say I haul cast iron out there, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't. You prolly make some bomb ass meals out there.

>>1028927
>Choose wisely
>has to roll

>>1031721
haha that piece of shit is my pride and joy

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>>1032035
I like you anon. Fuck the haters. I think ur pack is noyce.

>>1032558
the pack is noyce but the content sure look shitty

>>1032685
That's a common misconception about the woods- ya don't need expensive shit to have a noyce time.

>>1032685
oh yeah I totally get ya. My gear is either hand made or from Walmart/thrift stores. I like seeing how well I can do with cheap shit, and if it breaks I just try and repair it. I've never gone out longer then four days or farther then 15 miles tho so it's not like that shit gets put through the wringer.

>>1032738
yeah I know. When I started out I had crap gear (I say crap NOT cheap). You don't need expensive gear but it should still be thoughtout.

I mean in >>1028925 carrying that metal gourd and funnnel, for example, or the blue wrapped thing (chair?), carrying a 3.5kg ozark tent, etc. Bet theres a lot more unnecessary weight inside.

I love my cheap gear too,
>surplus sleeping bag 30 quid
>mora 10 quid
>ccf pads <5 quid
>PU coated polyester tarp 20 quid
>highlander rucksack 50 quid (and 15 years irregular use later still going strong)
>disposable water bottles free

>>1033013

Ain't gonna lie, it is indeed chock full of useless shit as for most of my /out/ life I was into <1 mile mile hikes to get to a campsite I'd stay at for 2-3 days, but as I get more into backpacking (my 15 mile trek was just a day-and-a-half taste to see what it's like) I plan to cut it down based on what I find that I do and don't need, so hopefully this time next year I'll be posting a far more slimmer loadout.

Oh and that blue thing were my tents poles. Unless you mean the big thing, which was my sleeping pad. I'd never bring a chair haha

>>1033060
Sounds like you're on the right path bro. Other anon was right you don't need to spend much money on gear, just choosing wisely will get you very far.

>crap gear
>cheap gear

You guys realize you don't need any gear at all right? Ultralight/no carry fags do that all the time. Adding any gear to an ultralight/no carry setup is just a plus even if it is the worst tool in the world. Thus, your equipment doesn't really matter.

>>1028699
Personally I think the 1/3 body weight thing is bullshit considering the vastly different levels of fitness people have that go out hiking, and tends to encourage people to uncomfortably pack/carry too much.

I've never seen anyone who finds 50lbs+ comfortable regardless of how big they are. Just because it's possible to hike with a heavy pack, doesn't mean it is terribly enjoyable or a good idea to do so.

IMO the most comfortable upper limit for men is around 45lb, and for women around 30lbs. This is a weight that the vast majority of people can carry for a full day of hiking, and not feel like the pack itself is the hardest part. An ideal weight for multi-day trips for men is more like 30lbs, and 20lbs for women. At that weight, the pack is light enough that it is no longer really a burden at all even for a full day.

Not to say that I haven't done my share of trips carrying well over 60lbs, but that kind of weight is unpleasant after 10 hours, and I will only do it if it is absolutely necessary for the type of trip I am on.

>>1033082
>>1033060
>>1032963
This discussion is noyce. I'm this anon-
>>1032738
>>1032558

So far as you do it >>1033013 I'm pretty similar. Except for I pay for things in Dollars and not squids you strange japanese man.
I've actually been salvaging/repurposing shit more and more often, very "freegan" if you will. I made a pack and ground sheet out of the remains of a tyvek roll I found. I cut up some old foam I found into a sleeping pad (even though I have 3 real ones?). Salvaged a blue tarp. Ideally, I'd like this project to be a proof of concept that you can have an excellent set up for 0$ or 0 squids.

I wanna find a tossed quilt and use a shit sleeping bag I have for fabric to make a down sleeping bag for actual 30°F/0°C nights

What's proving difficult is finding good hiking shoes, and hiking clothes in general.

I guess it depends what part of the country/world you live in. Where I am, there's a ton of construction and people throw shit out all the time. Easy access to dumpsters and clothing donation bins overfloweth.

>>1033140
I feel ya man.

I converted my 400g fill Rab sleeping bag into a top quilt. Saved the extra down and overstuffed my DIY underquilt.

Next DIY projects are to 'make' a knife using a blank blade stock. I love my Bark river, I love my Mora, I love my SAK, and I love my Spyderco, but I want my own knife. Up for having a go at sheath making also. Decided on a scandi rat tang and then birch bark stacked handle. Gonna be noice.

Next project for winter is a pack down hot tent stove. I've done the calculations and reckon it'd be a fun weekend project and I can end up with a reasonable 1.5kg stove out of steel stock. I don't have a hot tent at the moment tho, so I may try and pick up a cheap throwaway tent and retrofit a flue panel out of scrap canvas.

re hiking clothes and boots,

IMO you can't skimp on boots. I wear Salomon 4d , they're mid range goretex boots, and onto their third season with only a compromise in the gore lining on the toe bend (the rubber toecap let go)

I do think boots are overkill for most terrain and weights. I'll be trying trail runners next.

Clothes you can be a bit more flexible. For years I wore old Nike gym bottoms. Fully synthetic, zipped pockets, loose cut with vented sides. In the colder months I wear Condor bdu which are cheap but feature rich.

Synthetic base layers are good and cheap, okay they smell like shit unlike merino but they function fine.

Midlayers, personally I like two thin mid layers, a synthetic fleece over a wool layer. I wear a brit army windshirt and a US M1951 cold weather field shirt. Each were about 20 quid.

Then a shell. Again, the current gen goretex jackets designed to be worn with a smock are decent and you can pick them up for about 40 quid on ebay.

Of course, once all your bases are covered you can start transitioning and improving gear piece by piece. But by this point you'll have been inna a lot, used your gear, and know exactly what you do and do not need in your items.

>>1033120
1/3 bw isn't a "comfort" limit, it's a "longterm health of your joints" limit.

>>1033224
lol, someone carrying over 1/4 body weight is in the "dumbass tryhard" category if you ask me.

>>1028651
>>1028899

You have got to be trolling. Who the fuck would drag a game cart along hiking, unless you literally will use it to carry out game. Pushing or pulling, doesn't even matter, could only be for the yuppy "I have to bring everything with me when I go camping" crew.

Jesus. Name to me one thing too big or heavy to fit in a 75 L pack. Scrub.

>inb4 I took the bait

>>1033238
or, y'know, the "hardass backcountry mountaineering" catagory.

>>1034541
>Who the fuck would drag a game cart along hiking

No one, but they would to take their base camp supplies like what has already been stated ITT. "Base Camp" isn't just you and your tent. It is more akin to a glamping main base. From there you hike off to overnight camps where you may only use a hammock or just a bed roll. Most people use their ATV to drag the game cart pile with gear. Meaning >>1028633 is a poorfag who can't afford an ATV.

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>>1033238
>>1034550
Dumbasss or hardass, if you do it often, you'll give yourself arthritis. 1 lbs is 4 lbs on your knees.

If you want your parts to last, you have to treat them right. But I guess is doesn't matter as long you got to get to the top to bag that mountain. Who cares about future mobility?