I saw 5 black bears when I was out on my paddle boat today. The

>>1023279
black bears are fags
unless you try to fuck with one while it's eating, or one mom with its cubs, they'll just run away

you really should be worried about brown bears

>>1023287
Thats good to know. I haven't seen any brown bears but one of the black bears has two little cubs with it every time I see them. This is the closest one has got to me but I just started up my vehicle and honked the horn and he ran off into the bush.

>>1023287
i've heard the opposite

>>1023279

Body slam the bear.

>>1023307
You heard wrong. Black bears are generally scared shitless when they're confronted by people.

Although iirc once they actually attack you its a different story. Black Bears will keep attacking you even if you play dead while grizzly will stop attacking after they've killed you.

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Bears are unpredictable and most attacks involve black bears. Therefore, to answer OP's question, rather than dispute the premise, I would say carry bear deterrent spray, use a bear bell or whistle (I personally recommend Anon's Happy Floote but any tune will do), store food something like 200m away from your camp, usually hoisted in a tree, in a bear cannister if you want, be mentally prepared to act loud and "big" if a bear starts approaching you, and keep an eye/ear out for local sightings and warnings.

And never ever ever feed a bear. They aren't dogs or cats who will appreciate you. Instead you'll make them crazed and they'll pursue you and kill you or soemone else as a food source.

canadian black bear:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AF0M4xDZIJ8

>>1023368
fuck, that situation would easily have been worth $40 for a can of burr spray

>>1023368
That guy was a goddamn idiot. He didn't stand up or start trying to scare off the bear until it was already charging him. Crouching down and staying silent like that make you into a target.

>>1023365
Good advice, for the most part. But the reason more attacks involve black bears is because there are a zillion times more black bears than brown/grizzly bears.

>Don't leave anything out that smells of food, including empty cans.
>Suspend food over the ground, away from camp by pulling a rope between two trees, high enough to avoid reach, (use interwebz 4 best results).
>Make your presence known as you move; most black bears don't want a confrontation and will avoid you if they know you're there; make some noise.
>If you have a bear that doesn't run, stand your ground. Do not panic or run. Make yourself look larger by spreading your shoulders and holding your arms out and waving them.
>Yell and make loud noises. Fireworks, air horns, slamming pots and pans, etc. Black bears usually lose their nerve at this point.
>Make a fire and wield a torch or flare if the bear continues to encircle the camp. If it's not scared now, it's either sick or determined.
>Utilize lethal force or bear spray only during desperate situations. If injured, most animals will only fight harder. Be aware that only central nervous system shots offer any promise of downing a bear and bears may continue charging after being sprayed. Get out of the way.
>Cars offer decent protection if things look like they're getting nasty
>Leave the area if at all possible
>If you find yourself being attacked while unarmed, and cubs are involved, cover your head and neck with your hands and arms and lie face down. A mother will not relent until she feels her cubs are safe, so don't move or make a noise.
>If no cubs are involved, fighting may be best. Toss up dirt in the bears face, make loud noises, and try not to get grabbed. If you do get grabbed, go for the eyes and gouge.

>>1023397
I read on the 'ped that there are twice as many black bears as all other kinds of bear combined

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Bear spray is a meme
7.62x51 is not

>>1023486
Buy Bear Spray
Or Be Bear's Pray

>>1023511

T. Noguns.

>>1023287
black bears usually rather abandon their young than to risk confrontation. brown bears tho they will fite you.

>>1023365
>and most attacks involve black bears
guess which kind is the most numerous? did you know that most dog attacks on owners involve labradors?

>>1023397
>>1023727
poor reading comprehension skills.

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>>1023287

>>1023518
>magdump
>he's still charging

There is already a raging post about this topic

>>1021984

>>1024035
There is already a board for you to post on

>>>/lgbt/

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>>1023279
Go paddling with pic related.

>>1023279
Black bears always run away. I was in Sequoia National Park this week and encountered one. He was digging in the meadows and didn't even notice us. Once he smelled us, he sneaked a peak and then ran away. If there are baby bears, you're fucked.

>>1024150
Not always, dude.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America

>>1024358
Most of those are avoidable. Make noise, act big, dont run away, dont split up etc. The ones where the person was dragged from their tent and killed, absolutely terrifying to think about.

On the bright side, odds of it happening are lottery odds. A really shitty, painful lottery.

>>1023279
>How can I ensure that I don't get mauled by a black bear?
lol. You might as well be afraid of bunny rabbits.

>>1023511

Bear spray should be the first choice but let's not kid ourselves here it would take one google search to turn up multiple stories where bear spray didn't work and the animal had to be shot.

The best case is you have multiple people in your party that are armed and one to deploy bear spray. If that doesn't work then shoot the thing about 5-10 times preferably with a rifle or large bore revolver.

You know I'm still amazed black bears managed to survive in the eastern US while the wolves and cougars got exterminated.

>>1024415
bunny rabbits are 250+lbs of pure muscle so no

>>1024625
I meant "are not" but could you imagine if they were? Fuck I'd be afraid of them then

>>1024519
I know, right? We should kill them all.

>>1023976
>bringing children caliber guns
you deserve it

>>1023279
shoot first. ask questions later. all bears need to be exterminated. period.

Black bears are bitches. A grown man can fight a black bear away with his bare hands.

>>1024519
It's because bears eat so much plant matter. A much greater portion of a wolf or cougar's diet is meat. It is easier for a bear to get enough food, even with a wrecked ecosystem.

>>1024911
This and less predation on livestock id imagine.

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>>1023279
Black bears a generally pussies, but 5 in one area sounds like a family, and if one of them is a mom it will fucking kill you. I always bring a pistol along while camping for gators or bobcats, (Open carry in FL is only legal while camping) but if theres been bear reports i bring pic related

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>>1023486
>not usine 7.62x54r
>not charging the bear with the nugget bayonet and shouting "uuuuurrrrrraaaaa"

holy moly is this real?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9lCkFygaaQ

>>1023279
Bear mace and make yourself look big as possible is my take

>>1026673
no, it's a known fake. there are several.

>>1023722
I don't think they're that much of a pussy.

>being afraid of getting killed by a wild animal

its the best way to go, I hope a big cat gets me one day, disemboweled and throat ripped apart its better than dieing slowly in a bed

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>>1026767
this. i would rather a worthy adversary (or pack of worthy adversaries) absorb my power than a fucking mattress

anyone have bear encounter stories?

>>1023400
>>If you find yourself being attacked while unarmed, and cubs are involved, cover your head and neck with your hands and arms and lie face down. A mother will not relent until she feels her cubs are safe, so don't move or make a noise.

I thought you were only supposed to do this with grizzlies.

>>1026976
>Be me
>British columbia
>Town way out in the boonies
>Circa 1991
>Black bear has been rooting around in garbage, scrapping claws on trees in yards, even killed someones dog
>generally being a fucking menace but mostly libs and hippies so noone has done anything about it yet.
>One road in and out of town
>one night some hippy bitch sees said bear on side of the road at dusk, stops in her '85 corolla to look at bear to take pics with disposable camera cause '91
>flash agitates bear, bear tries to flip car, pushes it into ditch and tries to tear a door off
>once car finds traction hippy bitch gets it in her head maybe bears are dangerous
>speeds off
>word spreads in town bear almost killed someone
>more pet deaths
>gets reported, mounties do fucking nothing.
>me and buddy go out to find bear and put it down.
>me with 870 loaded with 3in slugs, buddy with kalashnikov.
>took the stopper out of the tube for 2 more slugs, also illegal, but fuck it, bear.
>spend 2 days looking for the fucking thing
>split up to look better
>bad idea
>I end up finding bear, ~80 meters away
>bear stands starts snorting at me
>full adult, a full foot or more taller than I am
>fuck me
>Inforadozeninforapound.jpg
>chamber round and top off gun
>right as I line up a shot at heart the bear drop and charges
>miss
>Try to line up shots at collar bone as it charges, maybe get a heart shot
>bear stops literally 10ft away after dumping all my ammo
>pissed myself
>buddy runs out of the bushes
>bear is still wheezing, sans lower jaw
>finishes off bear.
>leave bear, we are both hippies and well and dont eat meat or like fur.

I ended up hitting it the face, one in the shoulder, and 2 in the chest cavity. I really wish I had taken some of the claws or something as a souvenir, but if I had and a cop checked my gun I would've been fucked.

>>1025103
I think this is a big part.

Wolves and cougars were always seen as livestock thieves. They were hunted relentlessly.

Bears though didn't prey on livestock as often. Even when they did go after livestock, they could be chased away, and the bear would soon learn he'd rather not bother with the hassle, and find food elsewhere.

Cougars being obligate carnivore ambush predators, there was not chasing them off, since you never saw them. Even if they were chased off, they would always return, since they need meat to survive.

Wolves mostly fed on larger prey like deer and livestock, they were hunted relentlessly to near extinction.

>>1026994
And this is exactly why bear spray has been found to be more effective at detering aggressive bear behavior.

Unless you instakill the bear with a shot to the baseball sized brain, it usually will keep charging. A wounded bear often becomes more aggressive as well.

You're lucky anon.

>>1027059
Did you even read my story? I didnt insta kill it, I didnt even try for a headshot knowing it was outside of my comfort zone. I went for heart or lung shots and I got it.

Bear spray is for giving out to hikers, I have no doubt that if I had been using bear spray id be dead.

>>1023287
Pretty much this, I was looking at a property that my dad was thinking of buying, and there was bear scat, wild blueberries, and pawprints. When I went to look at this one plant in the bushes I spooked a bear that was hiding and it just ran away. Black bears are little scaredy cats that poopoo their pants.

>>1026976
Kinda lame but whatever
>be
>be car camping in Allegheny national forest
>everyone sitting around the fire
>decide to walk over to my parents camp site, they have an RV, I wanted a beer from the cooler over
>get to campsite, black bear 10 feet from me
>bear sees me, I freeze
>he is tearing up a plastic tote, so he grabs one thing and runs off as fast as possible
>next day walk in woods behind RV
>found what bear decided to grab and run off with
>empty box of fig newtons and wrappers everywhere
> also found an empty tub of sour patch kids, like a giant 2 gallon tub of sour patch kids
> laughed our asses off thinking blabout how bad that bear must have had diarrhea the next

story continues the next
>same thing, next
>walk back to RV
>bear is there again
>this time totes are more secured
>he had just been tossing them around
>once again he ran off as fast as possible

Story continues next night
>next night hear smashing sounds
> my cousin was all packed up and ready to leave that night
>bear is in the back of my cousins truck throwing out totes with food in them
>bear jumps out if truck and takes off as soon as we see him
>left cool scratches on the side of his truck

>>1027062
But even after multiple shots, the bear was still alive.

Statistics say you're simply lucky, as often a bear still mauls the person who shot it.

>>1023287

This is mostly, but not always true. Usually because someone else fucked with the bear already, and now you're in its path of destruction. Happened a few years ago, someone pissed off a black bear, then it mauled the next person it saw. He shot it, it didn't give a fuck.

>>1027077
Alive in the sense its existence was 2 options, pain an immobility for the next several hours, or alive until I regained my composure or my buddy killed it for me.

I can tell youve never seen a bear, or lived in bear country, and as someone who is an admitted hippie and vegetarian, your a fucking
bleeding heart faggot, and what your saying will get people killed.

>>1027084
I live in bear country, and have been bear hunting for several years now.

A wounded bear is extremely dangerous.

Studies show bear spray is more effective.

One study on every bear encounter in Alaska where a gun was used, found no difference between using a gun against an aggressive bear, and not using a gun at all.

What you're saying will get people killed. You're just lucky you weren't one of them with your reckless, and frankly stupid behavior.

>>1027105
You talk like someone who has never seen a bear. I dont believe you for a second.

In the other bear thread your studies were found to be false, in fact I can saved them just for this, and in your bear spray "Study" just like the other anon(s) said it only considered 83 cases, 11 of which didnt even have a bear involved, and only 25 actually considered an angry bear, and all of those could be 100% anecdotal, because they admit that in the study. I can find 23 cases of someone killing a bear just on youtube, and that is video evidence, not anecdotal.
In your firearms "Study", Just like the other anon(s) said, the type of firearm used isnt considered to have changed in 140 years, and the authors go out of their way to say their data isnt reliable and shouldnt be taken as proof of anything, in alaska or otherwise.

Ive actually lived in bear country, and actually killed bears. I abhor killing, and hunting and even eating meat, but telling people bear spray will save their lives against an aggressive bear is complete lies 100% unsupported by your data and is even directly refuted by the only 2 "Studies" youve put forward.

>>1027121
Don't start this again. Disagreeing with hard evidence is not the same as that evidence being false.

Once again, you have absolutely nothing to back up your claims, and you can only try and refute reliable scientific studies.

You argue that a firearm 140 years ago someone makes the study inaccurate. Have you considered a man 140 years ago in the Alaskan bush is probably much much more proficient with his rifle than the average hunter in his north face beanie today?

You are wrong, once again. The last thread proved it beyond a reasonable doubt. Don't start again, you have nothing.

Unless you can produce any kind of scientific study that helps your argument, then give up now since you lost several days ago in the last thread.

>>1027145
Both studies are admitted to using anecdotal evidence for an unspecified amount of cases, which could be as much 100%. In both studies the author warns against using the data to extrapolate anything outside of alaska. In both studies the author admits his methods were flawed and the results would probably be different if he had more data.

"Hard" evidence indeed.

>>1027145
My first hand experience outweighs your anecdotal studies. As so any of the bear kills on you tube, or any of the cases of bear spray not working ALSO on YouTube, because video evidence is worth more than anecdotal evidence, even anecdotal evidence complied by someone. Stop lying.

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>>1027145
>a civil war era musket that takes AT minimum 60 seconds to load a single shot can be operated just as proficiently a modern rifle that can be shot by a child at upwards of 30 rounds in 4 seconds.

Totally bro.

>>1027161
You still have not produced any evidence.

I have.

Try again.

>>1027163
And yet the majority of all bear encounters with an aggressive bear, the average number of rounds able to be fired is exactly 1.

Also, the vast majority of the study was with modern rifles, as references elsewhere. Taking away the 3 or 4 encounters before 1900 makes no difference in the results.

>>1027211
But since your "study" dosent list the dates, and they are anecdotal anyway they could all be with muskets.

>>1027211
Killing bears on youtube, how hard can it be?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVR4wFtRg74
how about a spear?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TNQRTFBdYg
Or a dog?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXm3JwlGI3U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8R9fwsEA6M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1fLpa5B_tI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikmLi8xzQVE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZ7tSGxGue0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIU9Ex2pa5Q

Or just guns.

Or my personal experience outweighing your shitty anecdotal evidence.

>>1027221
The first one was disturbing. It should have been more ritualistic and respectful.

>>1027227
So your argument is that you dont like killing? thats not an argument.

Of course killing as abhorable but if its my life or someone I know or a bear, I will -and have- pulled the trigger.

>>1027231
Not the guy you were arguing with, sorry :(

>>1027233
Its all good. I just wanted to make clear I wont compromise my safety because i care more about a bear than my own life.
>T. Vegetarian.

>>1027221
Wow, even with all that searching, you still failed to provide one ahead of evidence. The only point you made is "bears can be killed".

The polar bear? They're near point blank range and it's swimming "like shooting fish in a barrell" they can literally walk up to it and fire at it with no danger to themselves and it STILL can swim and make it ashore.

The spear? Not a gun, does not bolster your argument. You say an 1880s rifle negates my study but somehow a 3000 year old weapon like a spear makes yours better?

The bows? Still not a gun. Hunting a bear is much different than a bear being aggressive and charging. Once again, wrong weapon, and hunting is nowhere near the same as encountering an aggressive bear. A bow used for thousands of years makes you right but an 1880s rifle makes me wrong?

The one video you did post about killing a charging bear with a gun? There's a minimum of 3 people firing at it in a largr clearing, while they are well aware of the bear, shooting it from a distance and it still makes it 10 yards or more.

The video of the grizzly being shot at a distance and bleeding all over? This helps my argument tremendously. The bear is mortally wounded and still charges full speed ahead for hundreds of yards despite losing massive amounts of blood, and that's with a good broadside kill shot

Man. It's like you know you're wrong, and realize you can't prove otherwise...oh wait, you can't.

You showed one video of a group of men, all with guns, killing a charging bear they were aware of, taking multiple shots to kill it, in a wide open area. None of that applies to the vast majority of aggressive bear encounters.

Wow, you're worse than I even expected for a hippie.

>>1023279
It's a black bear.. so, you're pretty much already good. Just don't put yourself between mama and cubs.

Grizzlies though, those are gonna get you

>>1026979
I've heard this too, heard that black bears won't stop if they think you're dead

>>1027059
>bear spray
except the whole point of the story was to kill the bear

>>1027303
It's basically because black bears don't usually attack in defense. If they do attack it's usually predatory.

It's theorized grizzly bears are so aggressive because they evolved as the biggest and baddest thing around, so they could kick ass anything that threatened them. Their best defense strategy was to attack.

Black bears evolved along grizzly bears, and were never the biggest and baddest. They evolved to flee, and be excellent climbers to avoid danger.

A grizzly will go after you just because it doesn't want you around it.

A black beae, even with cubs, won't attack. It'll tree the cubs and be defensive, but won't risk it's life by attacking.

If a black bear does attack, it's most likely trying to eat you.

>>1027310
But aggressive bear encounters the point is to survive the encounter. Bear spray offers better chances for this.

>>1027145
>a man 140 years ago in the Alaskan bush is probably much much more proficient with his rifle than the average hunter in his north face beanie today
t. cityfag

>>1027317
bear spray for bear encounters in general but if it were me against an aggressive bear I'd want a gun

>>1027317
>a better way to survive a robbery is just to give them your wallet
>A better way to survive a rape is just to let them inside you
>A better way to survive terrorism is to invite muslims into your country
>A better way to not get burgled is leave your door unlocked.
>T. Liberal

>>1027327
the best way to stop a rapist is to consent that way it isn't rape anymore and fixes the problem completely but you'll never hear campus protestors saying this

>>1027316
It depends on the individual but grizzlies are much more aggressive than black bears. If it had been a grizzly bear being a fucking menace in >>1026994 I wouldve never gone after it.

>>1027279
>Shown video where bear is killed with less effective weapons than a gun, such as a bow and a fucking spear.
>Guns are totally ineffective against bears, use pepper spray instead. A gun will just get you killed and pepper spray always works.

Ok champ.

>>1027227
I feel the same. Guy was a total fucking tool. Goddamn bear was just chilling looking for some grub, and he gets some RealTree Underarmor twat to spear him for internet fame. Hope the bear spirits hunt and spear him in the afterlife.

>>1027279
Not that anon you've been fighting with, but I am very comfortably within academia and I can tell you that this study isn't very good.

Here is a real gem from the "study" you couldn't even give a link to (or perhaps you don't even have access to)... Somehow you think simply talking about this study constitutes "providing evidence".

"Subjectivity of incident records, presence of
confounding factors (e.g., multiple manufacturer’s products having been used), and small sample sizes limited statistical
analyses."

Read that sentence over to yourself several times, then try to understand what it means.

I won't even get into how the authors obfuscated the data into shitty text blobs and instead used a half-page graph to tell the reader that 24% of the reported cases involved hikers.

I love when studies take their part of their evidence from anecdotal archives in rural Alaska then apply it as if a brown bear who has never seen a human in Alaska is the same as one who is accustomed and not afraid of one in, say, Banff.

With that said, I still carry bear spray AND a gun (where permitted).

>>1027345
The polar bear one was horrific and disgusting as well.

>>1027344
No one has said guns are totally ineffective, and no one said bear spray always works.

In the majority of aggressive bear situations, for the majority of people, bear spray has a greater success rate. It's easier to deploy, requires no special skills, covers a wide area, and is effective. Nothing is 100% effective.

I'm asking the other anon to show any evidence guns are more effective than bear spray, when used in a situation where an aggressive bear threatens your life. Those encounters have been shown to happen quickly, at close range, often as a surprise. Under those circumstances, bear spray works better.

>>1027348
There's 3 separate studies at least, not just one that I reference. I'm sure you know how to google.

And while you want to confuse your education level with credibility, the evidence we do have suggests bear spray is the more effective choice, while there is no evidence to the contrary.

Until someone. Anyone. Provides any other evidence, those studies, even if you believe they are flawed are the best information we have now.

It is impossible to do a completely scientific study about this. Where every variable is accounted for. It's real life, not a lab. When you look at real life encounters, over a variety of conditions, bear spray has a higher chance of detering an aggressive bear.

If you're an expert marksman, in an open area, with a large caliber gun, are not surprised by the bear, and are able to accurately put several large caliber rounds down range in a matter of seconds, accurately.... then guns are probably your best choice.

If you're anyone else. Bear spray.

Also, bear encounters do suggest one thing, and that is they happen fast. Carrying both spray and a gun might give you choices, but you may only have time to deploy one. Whichever you choose, make sure you can use it effectively.

By your logic you'd rather keep your wallet and die.

Typical republican.

>>1027365
You thick fucking retard. The whole point of that anon's story, which got you started, was that they were going out to kill the bear who was being a "menace". AKA being a large dangerous animal who was fucking lots of shit up. Would you have preferred for him to have lassoed him up and drown it in a giant tub of bear spray?

Oh and by the way, this study of which you have yet to link or directly quote, has already been proven to be anecdotal and flawed. So far that other anon has provided WAY more proof on his stance than you have yours.

>>1027382
He posted one video of 3 guys shooting a bear.

I am referring to 3 major university backed studies commissioned by the state of Alaska.

But ok, a YouTube video isn't flawed.

>>1027385
Link the studies. Put up or fucking shut up.

>>1027385
>I am referring to 3 major university backed studies commissioned by the state of Alaska.
>I am referring to *2* *small, like less than 20 cases in one and less than 400 over 140 years in another* University backed (Citation needed) "Studies" commissioned by noone in particular.

But a youtube video is video proof.

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>>1027377
By your logic, you'd rather be helpless to the scenario instead of being responsible for the outcome.

For MOST people in this thread, we can generally agree that we love /out/ and our /an/, but the second it threatens even the thought of our well being, we'd rather be prepared than at BEST case spending a trip to the Emergency Room, if you even make it that far.

Someone chooses to rob me, it's their responsibility to also accept the outcome of their actions. For you, you'd rather just give up your wallet and empower the criminal to his next victim. The rest of us refuse to be the victim, and the better ones here refuse to allow others to become victims as well.

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>>1027388

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jwmg.342/abstract (study about the effectiveness of firearms)

http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/bear_cougar/bear/files/JWM_BearSprayAlaska.pdf (references 2 studies about bear spray)

https://www.google.com/amp/www.themeateater.com/2016/the-cold-hard-facts-of-bear-deterrents-bear-spray-vs-firearms/amp/ (bear expert weighing in)

Pic related for fish and wildlife service

>>1027395
Taking proper bear precaution, and carrying bear spray is hardly the same as allowing to be robbed.

By the same logic, you sound like you believe if you have a gun, you are immune to being robbed.

>>1027395
And yet, you're idiotic pride won't really help you when you're face down in your own blood, with the wallet in the criminals hand anyways.

You're still the victim, just a pretty stupid one.

My way is to avoid getting robbed in the first place, and live another day to see my family.

But go ahead and die over $20 and a few credit cards. This isn't the wild west. You're not going to get into a shootout cowboy.

My way, the worst case scenario i lose my wallet, bear case, I also lose my wallet.

Your best case is you kill the robber and hopefully not even up on trial for a justifiable killing, worst case scenario you're dead.

Good thinking.

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>>1027401
Check and re-read again, guy.

Nothing wrong with being prepared with bear spray, and if anything one of the anons mentioned having multiple options (several people in camp with a rifle/shotgun, one with bearspray) is probably the best compromise.

Having a gun doesn't make me immune to being robbed, however it does give me an additional option than just being railed without a choice. Same thing with only having bear spray, it's a great OPTION, however it shouldn't be relied on exclusively.

This shit reminds me of non-lethal takedown doctrine in American contemporary law enforcement. They work great under controlled situations, against non-lethal aggressors. Unfortunately, under duress and plenty of other high-risk, lethal aggressor scenarios, a firearm is still king.

"Firearms should not be a substitute for avoiding unwanted encounters in bear habitat. Although the shooter may be able to kill an aggressive bear, injuries to the shooter and others also sometimes occur. The need for split-second deployment and deadly accuracy make using firearms difficult, even for experts. Consequently, we advise people to carefully consider their ability to be accurate under duress before carrying a firearm for protection from bears. No one should enter bear country without a deterrent and these results show that firearms are not a clear choice. We encourage all persons, with or without a firearm, to consider carrying a non-lethal deterrent such as bear spray because its success rate under a variety of situations has been greater (i.e., 90% successful for all 3 North American species of bear; Smith et al. 2008) than those we observed for firearms.”

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>>1027396
First link cant read try this retard
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/261982557_Efficacy_of_Firearms_for_Bear_Deterrence_in_Alaska
Also direct quote
>we do not claim that these rates represent the outcome for all bear–firearm incidents throughout Alaska or elsewhere When we initiated this study in the late 1990s, we had access to the Alaska Department of Fish and Game’s defense of life or property (DLP) records. However, privacy laws restricted our access to records from 2001 to present. This incomplete record potentially affects findings
> additional records would have likely improved firearm success rates from those reported here
2nd link also dead but lets find it so I can pull some direct quotes to prove you wrong (Not the study, literally just you) for like the 8th time. Also it is a study, it dosent reference anything you idiot, it encompasses another, smaller, less significant study.
>We collected bear spray incident records from 1985 to 2006 from state and federal agencies, newspaper accounts, and anecdotally

see pic related about how only 23 aggressive bear (Anecdotes) were even considered

3rd link
literally some guy bullshitting his way through an interview about how someone used bear spray twice and was almost killed.

Good job.
>>1027401
Yes.

>>1027412
see
>>1027416
>we do not claim that these rates represent the outcome for all bear–firearm incidents throughout Alaska or elsewhere When we initiated this study in the late 1990s, we had access to the Alaska Department of Fish and Game’s defense of life or property (DLP) records. However, privacy laws restricted our access to records from 2001 to present. This incomplete record potentially affects findings
> additional records would have likely improved firearm success rates from those reported here

Idiot, ignoring direct quotes from your source saying it isnt a good source to be used like oyur using it.

>>1027407

I've been a police officer in Los Angeles for 18 years. In a sea of fiery anti-gun rhetoric, policy, and ideals, I've been a semi-lonely guy pioneering for 2A rights for every man in a part of the country where it's more politically correct to just give into thugs.

Of COURSE it's best to avoid getting robbed, dumbass. It's a huge motivator for millions of us to strive, try, and work harder to be in a better place than we were before, with one of the benefits being you can live a more peaceful, unthreatened life. If you haven't noticed, much of this thread is about having an OPTION to mitigate the unthinkable, the truly scary scenario we are afraid to think or ask of ourselves.

You oversimplify any sort of combat scenario with an outcome that you think is controllable or even predictable. Frankly, I hope it works that way for you and most as I genuinely wish everyone can live a life without having the experience of being a victim of violent crime.

If someone has the drop on me or my senpai with a weapon and the risk of getting injured/killed is even moderate, of course you'd give up your wallet. But what if they violently grab you to rip jewelry off of you or your wife or your kid as part of the force of violence?

And best case killing someone while I stay alive or my senpai stays alive is 1000x more acceptable than allowing injury or harm to them. Worst case scenario is not me getting killed myself, but allowing those around me get killed because of my inaction or inability.

>>1027407
>My way is to avoid getting robbed in the first place
>it's not robbing if you just give the mugger your wallet xD
Justin Trudeau is that you?

>>1026979
>>1027303
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hknajFi54kI

Playing dead with a black bear worked for this girl.

>>1027584
It's hard to tell what the bear's gonna do. If it's starving and predat'ry playing dead might just be serving yourself up like a hot dinner. You might not know if it's acting in self defence and will leave you alone once you stop struggling, of if it'll just start eating you.

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>>1027573
jesus fuck

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7yoIheOrTc

>>1027589
you can still try to fight if it doesn't leave you alone. it's worth a try.

>>1027420
I never said I don't carry, I never said I'm antigun.

I have an entire safe full of guns, including 2 AR-15s, several handguns, shotguns, rimfires, muzzleloader, ect

What I'm saying is a shoot first mentality, especially with an aggressive bear, is more likely to end in your death.

>>1027419
Once again, failing to provide any of your own evidence. A disclaimerdoesn't invalidate a study. It's the most reliable research we have to date. Until you actually produce anything else reliable like I have, you can not defend your position.

At this point we just have ylto agree yo disagree. Clearly no one is being swayed by any argument here.

I base my opinions off of the only research we have, and opinions of bear experts, which has looked at many bear encounters and found besr spray is an effective deterrent, while finding firearms can be less effective.

Bear spray is lighter, and easier to deploy for a hiker, which I am, unless I'm hunting. In that case using your firearm may be more practical, since it's already in your hands, and should be at the ready.

Other than the fact that guns can kill bears, there's no hard evidence to support they work better than bear spray. This is however evidence of the contrary. While you may believed it's flawed, it's still significantly more than you have to bolster your argument.

If you are proficient under duress with a firearm and can carry a large caliber with you at all times in near country, go ahead. This advice though for the vast majority of the population just doesn't apply, since the vast majority of people are not expert marksmen.

>>1027374
>there's a lot of studies proving I'm right
>but I don't care enough to reference them
fuck off, you're not even trying

>>1027712
Ummm, did you read the thread?

See here >>1027396

>>1027823
see
>>1027416

>>1024879
t. Zangief

>>1024491
I heard bear spray is weaker than normal spray
WEAKER
What are they thinking?

>>1027902
Liberals care more about how an attacking bear feels than an attacking person feels.
I think manufacturers are even legally bound to make it less concentrated because of bs laws.

The same reason the strongest laser pointer you can get is miniscule, but you can buy ridiculously strong diodes from china no problem and make your own.

>>1027573
Sick dualwielding.

>>1027591
Ok, seriously, what's supposed to be terrifying here? Guy just got nommed.

>>1027915
Then it would be better to just get normal spray and just give the bear the hell.

>>1027925
I mean Im the anon who posted >>1026994, so you know what id use.

>>1027928
You missed a lot of shots.
If bear managed to keep going at least for a short while, you would be fucked.

>>1027929
But it didnt. And I only had 5 shots, with a pump action shotgun you idiot. If had a kalashnikov like my buddy I wouldve had a 30 rd mag like he had, the law be damned.

>>1027931
Ah, sorry, didn't reread.
Still, if you missed or hit in less vital places, you would be fucked.
It's a bit tricky to hit moving targets.

Just happened.

>A Boise-area hunter will recover from bite wounds he received after being attacked by a wounded black bear near Grimes Creek in Boise County. Marvin Jennings (43) of Boise and his uncle from Lynnwood, Washington, were hunting over a bear bait site on Clear Creek on Sunday evening, May 28 when the incident occurred.

>Towards dusk, the two men observed a large black bear approaching their bait site. The uncle shot and wounded the animal which ran some distance away. After a short period of time, Jennings approached. The bear charged, knocking Jennings to the ground, and both hunter and bear tumbled down a hill. The bear bit Jennings multiple times on the left arm and leg before Jennings dispatched the animal with a handgun.

>>1027943
>shoot at bear
>bear runs off
>approach bear thinking its dead
>it isnt

What an idiot.

>>1027943
This never would have happened if they had used bear spray instead

>>1027973
Eat shit. literally only you care.

>>1027973
yeah ever since a bear bit me i'm only hunting them with bear spray.

>>1027573
Why couldn't he slit its throat?

>>1027915
>>1027902
>>1027925

Do a tiny bit of research before being stupid online.

Pepper spray for use on humans range from 0.18% to a max of about 3% concentration.

Law enforcement uses between 1.3% and 2%.

Bear spray legally has to have a minimum concentration of 1%. The most common brand of bear spray, and most all bear spray you can find is 2% concentration, which is the same as the max concentration used by law enforcement.

Bear spray cones out with significantly more force and has more range than normal spray. It also comes in cans that are 4 or 5 times larger.

Literally the only difference between bear spray and pepper spray for humans, is that it's at the high end of concentration, and comes in significs toy larger cans with more spray.

>>1028045
How about you stop lying to further your bad argument
http://www.selfdefenseninja.com/bear-spray-vs-pepper-spray-whats-difference/
>A typical pepper spray used for self defense will have an oleoresin capsicum (OC) concentration of about 10% or higher. A typical bear spray has a oleoresin concentration of about 1 – 2 %.

Fucking christ.

>>1027638
>What I'm saying is a shoot first mentality, especially with an aggressive bear, is more likely to end in your death.
I apologize for implicating the anti-gun thing to you, as that was not the intention and I do agree that a shoot first mentality isn't appropriate either. I think we can both agree that preparation and options are a good thing, instead of trying to be dogmatic about it.

>>1028045
Regardless of the concentration, canister type, or brand, none of that matters in either a law enforcement capacity or bear deterrent capacity if the spray doesn't get on target. On any windy day, using OC spray becomes a gigantic liability for any cop. Same applies innawoods. Again, if its a feasible option, bear spray it is. Thankfully you'll have a long gun within arm's reach as a backup.

>>1028051
And yet there are still a surprising number of people out there who can resist, still charge and attempt to kill a LEO after being sprayed. And we want to entrust our lives to this with a fucking bear?

>>1023279
Seriously, just punch it in the fucking face if it comes at you and 99% of the time it'll run away

>>1028063
Thats what IM saying, bear spray is retarded.

>>1027327
>a better way to survive a robbery is to give up your wallet
Do you seriously dispute this? What sort of dense motherfucker would die to protect 40 bucks?

>>1028092
>Its my money or my life

Half the time its your money THEN your life you idiot.

>>1028092
Again, if someone has the jump on you and has you completely, tactically outmatched, sure you can give up your wallet. Now here's where assumptions begin: You'd HOPE that it would stop right there. I'd hope the same and for others as well.

However if the aggressor decides to push further, what do you do next? What if you're not alone when you're being robbed? Having a firearm again... is the OPTION that you can rely on in case of escalation.

Stop trying to assume the outcome as if it were a controlled procedure, you jackasses. That's exactly why we have a raging discussion here against people trying to cite facts and studies to predetermine that X is absolutely the best way and you're an idiot for resorting to Y because it gets most people mauled!

>>1028051
You need to read up on the terminology. A spray advertised as 10% will have an actual major capcaicinoid concentration of around 1.3%.

Look at actual law enforcement spray. And it's MC concentrations are 1.3% to 2%.

A company exaggerating claims is getting around loopholes by misrepresenting their concentrations.

https://www.sabrered.com/formulations-heat-strength-and-law

That article helps explain, although is biased to their brand. That brand however is the leading supplier of OC spray to law enforcement.

Again, pepper spray is not stronger than bear spray, and near spray can spray up to 35 feet away, most pepper sprays have a range of about 5 feet.

>>1028051
"Several companies offer sprays based on a 10 percent concentration of 500,000 SHU OC, spray hotness of 50,000 SHU or 0.33% capsaicin equivalent"

The companies advertising the high concentrations are merely advertising the percent of OC they have, while that does not reflect the hotness, as only part of OC is actually hot.

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/how-hot-is-it-understanding-pepper-spray/

This article explains it even better, and is not biased towards one brand.

Bear spray is regulated, so that the concentrations of major capcaicinoids has to be above 1.0% minimun, with most being 2%.

Pepper spray can claim 10%, while the actual number is closer to 0.33% of capcaicinoids.

So in essence, bear spray on average is much hotter than typical sprays, unless you're buying from a respected brand. In that case bear spray is the same hotness, only in a much bigger can with a much farther range.

Again, please do research before you post and spread misinformation.

>>1028030
Because he was being molled and it's hard to do things when you're being molled.

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>>1028111
>>1028092

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>>1028269
Do you work for a bear spray company?
You have been at it for weeks now.
Also reddit is down the hall

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>>1028269
I just read that the best bear spray is this one

They're the first company to make bear spray and it was used in an intensive Montana study about the efficacy of bear spray.

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>>1028509
That's certinly the most common one it seems. I have two of them. Lash them to the back of my pack juuuuusta'min case

what the FUCK is their problem

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZREdbw_Mu_4

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>>1029078
I woulda been all BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM

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Alright you frickin fricks, I blame this squarely on you guys and this thread. Early this morning I kept waking up and dozing off again, and every time I'd doze-off I'd have a horrifying nightmare about either myself or someone else being gruesomely mauled to death by a bear. I'd wake up practically having a heart attack I've been a nervous nelly all day now.

>>1030536
Just don't pick up bear hitchhikers and you can avoid this happening to your truck. Don't invite the lady bears to your lakeside parties either, no matter how alluring they look in those fur swimsuits.

>>1030536
>sees a bear thread
>topics of self defense, how bears act, even a few stories of anons having to hunt and defend themselves from bears that were bad.
>"I had nightmares about big scurry bear boo hoo for me"

Your a fucking pussy. Get your shit together.

>>1023722
in my experience that wasn't the case. i stumbled across a mother and her 3 cubs all eating. the cubs ran off when i acted aggressive and started yelling. the mother stayed and postured, almost as if she was going to charge, went on hind legs ect ect....but the cubs made noise and she ran off after them

ive had a few run ins with black bears and the people who say that black bears are pussies dont really know what theyre talking about. they're a predator and can kill a human easily if they wish. give them space and if it makes you feel better carry spray/and or a gun

>>1030825
>Your a fucking pussy. Get your shit together.

https://youtu.be/H5d42w4ZcY4

>>1023279
Black Bears are forest dogs
they hurt no one.
they are not aggressive
leave them alone and enjoy your defiling.

>>1030536
Duuude.

Me too.

I had a dream about a grizzly the other night then a polar bear.

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>>1031434
>polar bear
fukking nope

>>1031429
someone who's speaking from their ass

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>>1031429
>I would not worry about them

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>>1023279

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>>1027066
>go to park that is known for being full of black bears
>leave out food, bears come
>laugh at silly bear shenanigans
>continue to not secure food
>bear comes back
>still good
>keep doing it, fuck conservation or basic responsibility

You and your family are why I have to convince my family that Allegheny isn't a fucking Golden Corral for bears you piece of shit. Now I have to buy "Ranger Approved!" bear canisters because so many chucklefucks have proven they won't tie their food up properly.
Get fucked by bears, I hope a bunch of sun bears put you into a press and extract your bile for erections.

>>1023511
>pray

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>>1027573
RIP

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>>1032354
I think that's about enough of your sass anon.