Pile & Pertex

They're warm but bulky. Good for the cold and wet when a normal jacket would get soaked through and the insulation would collapse.

I am a fan.

MOD PCS smock (pertex and light fleece) for warmer weather.

Montane Extreme smock (pertex and pile) for colder weather.

I love the system. Completely windproof when zipped up, but easy to vent with side, pit, pocket and neck zips. Breathable but rapid drying.

I wore my PCS smock up Ben Nevis, down to 0c plus windchill, just over a merino base, and was happy as long as I kept moving.

It's not a layer that you take off.

The advice about wearing against your skin is golden. It maximises the wicking and the venting and thus increases the useable temp range.

I carry a poncho low land to layer when it REALLY buckets down,, and have been thinking about adding a lightweight hardshell to wear over it in the high country, but desu if you don't mind temporary wet/dampness it's not necessary.

Theres' not much love for P&P system here on /out/ because about 3/4 of the board don't go inna

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snugpak?

>>1019528
Not my first choice.

That looks like the softie jacket tho which is slightly different to a P&P system in that it's for sedentary activities.

..

I am looking for a pair of trousers that would complement a P&P upper. I am looking at technical mountaineering trousers as I require windproof and quick drying.

>>1019538
http://www.arktisusa.com/index.php/products/a210/

>>1016227

I have the Montane smock. It's bulky, but meant to be worn rather than carried.

To elaborate (and as someone has already mentioned): pile is designed to be worn against the skin. When you're working you open the zips to dump heat rapidly (the smock unzips all the way from pit to hem), and you just have to trust it to keep you warm in the wet.

It only really makes sense if you commit to the 'system' (maybe adding only a shell on the wettest of days, or a belay jacket on the coldest), otherwise layering with a primaloft/snugpak jacket will require less space/weight.

>>1016227
So is there any particular advantage of Pertex over any of the other dozens of waterproof breathable fabrics?

Unless you were going somewhere that basically rained 24/7/365, why the fuck would you want your primary outer garment to be waterproof instead of just wearing a super breathable outer layer?

Also, a backpack will either block or chafe with those humongous pit zips found in all the pertex anoraks/ponchos.

>>1019582

Pertex is windproof not waterproof

>>1019587
Their website says its waterproof tho

>>1019588
Whose?

http://www.pertex.com/product/classic/

>>1019589
Whoops I was looking at Pertex Shield

>>1019582
>So is there any particular advantage of Pertex over any of the other dozens of waterproof breathable fabrics?

yeah - that its not waterproof. its WINDPROOF, and BREATHABLE, and keeps you warm when wet. its' inception was for winter climbing.

>Also, a backpack will either block or chafe with those humongous pit zips found in all the pertex anoraks/ponchos.

umm, most folk will wear the hip belt UNDER the P&P layer,, because the sides open up you can wear the front of the smock over the hip belt.

Also it doesn;t chafe. If anything a regular jacket with front zip chafes more.

>>1019582
the whole thing about the system is its NOT waterproof. you get damp, you even get wet, but you stay warm, the zips keep the wind out, the pile wicks it away fast, and before you know it you're dry again.

Waste of space compared to a modern shell system, not waterproof and bulky. Look into goretex

>>1020097

so close to being triggered.

again, the whole point is it's an ALTERNATIVE system to layered shell systems.

Your body is not made of sugar, it is okay to get damp or wet. What is important is proper heat and moisture regulation.

And you know what else? The problem with goretex is that it's a liner and within a season or two it's compromised. I've had goretex jackets and boots both just start leaking like a sieve randomly. P&P = low tech, get a rip in it? so what. My montane smock is 7 seasons old still going strong.

>>1020230

All that's fine enough until the water soaks through the pertex and the smock doubles in weight because of it. Its already far too heavy.

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>>1016227
>hi there o
This isnt o, go fuck yourself

>>1020628
you really don't get it do you.

it doesn't "double in weight" because the synthetic pile doesn't take much water at all, and the pertex none at all.

I have seen a thread on another forum (iirc songs of the paddle, a canoe board) where a user tested it in a capsize scenario, and it dried completely within an hour.

Again, you get wet but you stay warm which is the important thing, and then it dries fast.

If you DWR the pertex it'll shed the majority of rain anyway.

As to the weight,, you're wearing it not carrying it.

>>1020710
Everything worn is carried though. Just because it's not in a bag doesn't mean that doesn't effect your body.

Shaving 5lbs of worn clothing has the exact same effect as shaving 5lbs of clothing carried in your pack.

>>1020230
>The problem with goretex is that it's a liner and within a season or two it's compromised
Wash your shit every once in a while you fucking heathen.

I have Goretex stuff that's seen heavy use for 12-14 years and it's still 100% waterproof.

>>1020718
Maybe if youre climbing, but for hiking 5lbs on the body is a lot nice than an extra 5lbs in the pack. The pp system isnt really aimed at gram counting lightweighters anyway, its for people in consistently shit conditions who still need want performance
I do a lot of my winter stuff in scotland, and pp is the goat system for reasons explained above. Few years back i started shaving weight, and after a few outings without it i realised the buffalo shirt was worth its weight - a 2lb synthetic that spends most of its time in the bag and a sweaty shell piece might be lighter on paper but its crap in practice.
Dont get me wrong tho, if its not cold and wet ill go for a fleece and windshirt to save the weight

>>1020786
I'm glad another anon sees the strengths of the system.

As to warmer weather alternatives I really like the MOD PCS smock. Pertex outer with fleece inner, same zips arrangement as my montane, plus pit zips and a wind hood. weighs a fraction of the pile version and you can score then on eBay for under 30 quid. I live in mine outdoors May - October

>>1021421
Ive been looking at that, and the snugpack softie, but how does it compare to a fleece/windhshirt combo? Ive got a thermal pro fleece and pertex classic windshirt and it seems exactly the same but more adaptable, being able to take off the shell. Are there any benefits to having them both in one?

>>1021492
I used to wear fleece and wind shirt as separate layers but I like the flexibility of the PCS smock.

Much like the P&P I often wear it against the skin (not as critical as the fleece doesn't wick as well as the pile).

Personally I like being able to vent and zip up rather than have to add and remove layers constantly. The PCS smock I've worn, and been comfortable in, between 0 and 15 degree C under moderate to heavy exercise.

If you decide to take a punt on the PCS smock, just be aware they run a little small across the chest and arm length.

>>1021421

There absolutely shit and best avoided. The zips are nasty and the fit is terrible, far too short in the arms and if you go up a size too baggy. Designed around a fat t-rex, so probably perfect for the majority of /o/

Pile and pertex are good in the Scottish hills, with temps around -5 to +3 ish, but for anything else a proper layered system is far better.

>>1022173
You realise I'm in Scotland right? I wear P&P in the winter and a PCS in the summer.

Pile is too hot over about 5c, fleece over about 15c. Over 15c and generally I don't need a dedicated wind layer as it's warm, so I just take off the smock and put on a base layer.

A layered system of bade, fleece and windshirt has one advantage - they can be worn individually. That's it.

As to complains about zips, cut, etc, that's extremely subjective. buffalo systems is a little 'square', but montane is more fitted. Only the MOD PCS is short on the sleeves for me.

>>1022173
>but for anything else a proper layered system is far better.

implying it can't replace your mid layer in a layered system

>>1022278

Why would you spend a stupid amount of money on a pile/pertex shirt when you could buy a standard fleece for half the cost and use that as a mid layer?

Or if your not poor a proper mid layer such as a primaloft jacket, which will compress much better and be far warmer for its weight.

Pile and pertex are an outdated system. Far too hot for use outside of a cold winter and even then most will require a warm jacket to over layer as they're not actually that warm when you stop moving.

They dry as quickly as any other fleece.

I tried a buffalo for years and was never really happy with it, boxy cut aside it was just impractical for 99% of the time i was out, don't bother with them.

>>1022776

well first off,

fleece =/= pile


>Why would you spend a stupid amount of money on a pile/pertex shirt when you could buy a standard fleece for half the cost and use that as a mid layer?

desu if you're bringing cost into it you're confusing your argument with your wallet. Proper fleeces are expensive, an R1/2 fleece can easily be a hundred bucks.

>Or if your not poor a proper mid layer such as a primaloft jacket, which will compress much better and be far warmer for its weight.

okay a primaloft jacket as a mid? now I know you're trolling

>outdated system.
no it's an 'old' system. It doesn't stop it from working.

>Far too hot for use outside of a cold winter

well duh, it's winter gear. That's like saying oh don't use a down jacket because its far too hot for use outside of winter

>most will require a warm jacket to over layer as they're not actually that warm when you stop moving.

just like any system. what is a belay jacket, for example? ANY system that switches between static and active use requires changes in layers, ie an addition of a warm layer.

>They dry as quickly as any other fleece.

No, pile wicks much faster than fleece due the straight structure of the fibres

>I tried a buffalo for years and was never really happy with it, boxy cut aside it was just impractical for 99% of the time i was out, don't bother with them.

boxy cut is buffalo. that's like saying I don't like goretex boots [a material] because solomon boots [a brand] doesn't fit me.

If it doesn't suit you it doesn't suit you, but I swear the majority of negative points raised are just anons parroting what they've read elsewhere.

>>1022811

Pile is just another form of fleece, before what we would now call "fleece" came about there was plenty of pile tops available. Pile has issues though obviously, it looks shit and tends to flatten over time. The opposite side tends to shed and look worn very quickly. The new type of polar fleeced replaced this quickly, as it looked much better, was more durable, didn't flatten as quickly and was just as warm and dried just as quickly.

"Proper fleeces" are dear because of a brand name. You can get excellent fleece for cheap, plenty of generic brand out there turning out good kit.

>Its winter kit

You could layer a baselayer, midweight fleece and a outer shell to use in winter, the whole system would be no more bulky then a buffalo, would weight less if soaked there and could be adjusted easily. Every bit of it can be used separately in other months also. You wouldn't use a down jacket in the summer because it is designed for one specific purpose, sitting still in cold weather, buffalo seems to be designed for moving about in cold weather. It works to an extent but its an all of nothing bit of kit, if it warms up or you feel a bit too cold you cant adjust, if you wear it next to skin as intended.

Fleece dries easily as quickly as a buffalo top, if not faster. There are types of fleece now that wick FAR better than the thick buffalo pile, such as a rab vapour rise top, which will wick faster and dry quicker.

>>1023574
Rab vapour rise uses the same micro pile as the low insulation buffalos. The reason if feels like it wicks better is the stretchy fit (so more of the fleece can actually wick) and the equiibrium shell, which is ridiculously breathable and fast drying. Id argue the VR system has a different use to micro pile as well. The VR wicks better because its aimed at more active use ( the original smock was aimed at fell runners ) whereas dp is more aimed at persuits where youre just not standing still. Also despite dp not wicking better, the actual fleece dries much faster than micro pile. The hairs against your skin dry really fast, its the rest thats wet for a while - whereas the lighter knit of the micro pile and the equilibrium dry quicker overall, but you feel wet for longer