How often can /o/ be wrong about Tesla?

400k km's over 4 years is nothing... The fact that it needed all that shit replaced says a lot. A modern new cheap ICE shitbox would make it to that easily with just oil changes. I bet that guy also drives like a grandma most the time and doesn't supercharge it. Floor it at every light and supercharge it and it'll go to shit pretty quickly.

>>17770477
>presented with facts
>gets the olympic gold in mental gymnastics

>>17770452
For a Tesla, do you consider getting the motor replaced analogous to getting your engine replaced? If so, 250k isn't very impressive.

Imagine if your gas tank got smaller the more you drove it

>>17770477
>250,000 in four years is nothing
KEK

>>17770691
it's sort of more like an expensive subframe swap

>>17770477
Did this fucking retard just say 250k miles in 4 years, (~63k/year) is nothing?

Jesus fucking christ you are stupid. I drive 100 miles round trip to work every day and I barely get half that.

>>17770541
He's right that the battery will go to shit a lot faster if you drive hard and use "supercharging"
This is basic lithium battery 101, it's a fact of the type of battery and no amount of muskhype can fix it.

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ICE cucks simply can't compete

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>>17770895
>CARS BREAK DOWN MORE WHEN MISTREATED

>>17771020
Ideally, fast charging shouldn't be "mistreating" your car

but in this case, unfortunately, it is

>>17771051
Doing it every once in a while is fine. When you start talking about repeatedly draining the battery as fast as possible for the purpose of repeatedly charging it as fast as possible you are then intentionally trying to damage the battery.

>>17770872
Welcome to life as a fleet vehicle... Which even a rental car tier car like a Kia can achieve.

>>17770891
Four years isn't a lot of time for issues to pop up. Let's see how many issues it has and the state of the battery at 10 years old with 250k miles. We'll see how "maintenence free" electric cars really are.

I'd be doing a fuckload more miles than that if I had an electric car with decent range. Driving from work to the mountains and back is over 155 miles and I could do that every day.

>>17771107
NO. I'm paying 6 figures for "the fastest car on the planet" and the ability to get xxx miles in 20 minutes or whatever. Using the advertised capabilities isn't intentional damage in the normal world.

>>17771118

>IM PAYING MONEY WHY CAN MY THINGS BREAK

>>17770452

Battery degradation isn't the main complaint with Teslas.

The core complaints are

>price. they literally do not compete with comparable cars. the model 3 reasonable equipped is twice the price of a reasonably equipped Accord
>range. I lived in the south and the fiancee's family has a lakehouse 1 hr and 45 min away. there's no charging stations between here and there and they don't have a garage. it's inconvenient/impossible for me to make this simple trip in a 50k (again, reasonably equipped) vehicle? not acceptable as a primary car. only works as a secondary daily driver to/from nearby work.
>gibsmedat. the entire company relies on gibs. if their prices are this bad with all the gibs, imagine what will happen when the gibs dries up. it happened in Norway and they stopped selling

I think they're a cool company. Just stop pretending that they're practical. They're rich people's play things still.

Also their core demo (young people) doesn't have a garage/driveway to charge in. Big problem.

>>17770891
250k miles over two engines, how long did the first one last?

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for some reason this guy from the article reminds me of James May but he looks nothing like him

>>17770452
>Sample size: 1

Nice data.

>>17771141
>nowhere to charge
Buy a Tesla Powerwall©®™ and you can charge it at home

when tesla can make a civic sized competitor with a 300-400 mile range that takes no more than 20 minutes for a full charge and costs no more than 22k than ill start respecting them. otherwise theyre doing nothing but adding the premium to electric cars when 90s gm could make an electric car that looked like a saturn and was about to cement americas highest standard of living until (((they))) threatened to cut their credit flow if they gave the proleteriat the idea that they could one day own an environmentally friendly electric car

>>17771185
or you know, like, fucking plug it into an outlet.

>>17770788
Id rather have my gas tank get smaller than my HP get smaller

>>17770452
>One battery.
>Battery needed repairing
>Motor needed replacing
Yep /o/'s Tesla shills were wrong that it was going to be cheaper to maintain.

>>17770901
>Chink

>>17771185

>Take 9 hours to recharge fully
>Rabid Tesla fanbois are like It is ok when it is Tesla.

Hmmmm

>>17771357
And wait 2 years for it to recharge

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>>17770901
>>17770901
Stay btfo, EV cuck.

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>>17771554
spicy meme bro-hanson

>>17771647
wonder if she could drift

>-25c winters and +45c summers
Will electrics actually work here when they are shoved down the people's throat?

>>17771463
>implying the batteries capacity to deliver current won't also be diminished

>>17770895
Elon Musk™ doesn't want you to know that fast charging that deep battery cycles kills them as fast as driving a car without oil.

>>17770891
There're people doing 1000km (600mi) per day, each day. You can see cars for sale easily with 750k km.
And Tesla™ can't do even a quarter of that without breaking in half.

>>17770452
>Range reduced from 400 km (250 miles) to 370 km (231 miles) => 7,5%
>Battery had a malfunction but got repaired
>Motor had been replaced once
>Power steering has broken once

In a 3 year old car, wtf? That is shitty

>>17771653
On an episode of the Grand Tour, a guy with no arms shows off his drifting skills. Turns out he's really good.

>>17771968
Paid Tesla™ shill, trying to sell us that it's perfectly normal for """""""maintenance free""""""" cars to have every component of the drive train replaced because it failed within 400k km.

>>17770452
My truck went 35 fucking years and 203,000 miles on all factory equipment, this shit isn't impressive at all.

>>17771954
"There are people that..."
Technically you're not wrong.
Just as me saying "there are people who use coolant instead of motor oil" is absolutely true.
But the number of people doing this is so low it's become statistically negligible.
So it holds no place in any serious discussion, other than a footnote.

>>17770691
Considering how much simpler/cheaper an electric motor replacement is (though I don't know how much Tesla charges for it), no. More like a head gasket replacement.

>>17772074
Yeah, should only be input/telemetry to unplug with a couple nuts/bolts.

Engines are a little harder to replace these days. Could probably do an electrical motor in the time it takes to remove the plastic shrouding.

>>17772078
The point being that brushless motors have literally one moving part, and if not for a bearing there isn't any mechanical connection. It's not justifiable that they last less than a complex ICE engine.

>>17772093
Ah, I didn't read further into the thread.
You're right. They really should over-engineer those motors. If a hub can last longer than I can, there shouldn't be much of an excuse.

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>>17770452
Repairs to Tesla out of warranty are very expensive. In addition, most problems are not repairs so much as they are removal of the old assembly and replacement with a new assembly. This is a high cost (and profitable) approach for the service company.

Damage to the Tesla unibody is also quite expensive. Picture shows one with minor exterior damage resulting in $78,000 of damage via GEICO examination.

>>17772130
Because at the end of the day Elon Musk™ can say whatever he wants, but Tesla™ remains a premium toy for rich people.

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>>17770452

>400000 km
>in 3 years

>>17771185
again, the core demographic of these cars are young renters living in silicon valley

they don't have driveways. they don't have garages.

>>17771122

Holy fuck the bootlicking.

>IITS TOTALLY FINE IF ELON MUSK TELLS ME MY CAR DOES A THING AND THEN MY CAR BREAKS WHEN I DO THE THING!!!!
>THIS IS ACCEPTABLE PLEASE FUCK MY ASS ELON

>>17772130
some stupid truckdriver drove into my father in-laws model x. Hood needs to be replaced.
rough estimation: 33K (yuro). is this at all a realistic number?!?
I was shitting my pants when i heard that.

>>17772267

You can buy a NEW sexy Golf GTI with that

>>17772267
Don't trust a repaired Tesla.
https://electrek.co/2017/03/31/tesla-model-s-fire-manchester-crash/

>>17772296
>car burns down because of a fender bender
Actually shouldn't the gorillian sensors have stopped the accident? Even my 12 year old Mercedes can do that and it's older than Tesla as a company

>>17772191
>they don't have driveways. they don't have garages.
Then they have no place to put a PowerWall. Those units are made to absorb solar power from electric arrays also purchased from Tesla. So that PowerWall is more expensive than necessary if you also don't get the corresponding solar power array to charge the PowerWall's batteries in the meantime. Using batteries to charge batteries feels sort of scammy.

>>17772267
It's why AAA auto insurance is raising insurance premiums for Tesla up to 30% more due to the increased repair fees. They are going up faster than inflation which suggests indirect collusion by the repair companies on raising repair costs. All it takes is an private industry tesla newsletter to post prices and the companies can all twig to that.

>>17772267
Not even a Lexus hood would cost $39,100 USD (33K euro). Sales tax is almost 10% in my USA state, so that hood repair would be approx $43K USD. Tesla really is a rich persons' toy. It's like one of those $15,000 baby strollers that rich people buy. It's pure extravagance.

As for accelerating to 60mph in a few seconds, I don't even have tires that would let me do that without squealing. Continental ExtremeContact DWS aren't good enough and those are pretty great tires already. For Tesla's tests, they must have doctored their tires with anti-slip traction liquid or something. Or maybe they pre-treated the city street they did their test videos on. Heck, if I knew they were regularly using a road, I'd go spray some vegetable oil on that ludicrous road.

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>>17772130
The URL in that picture is useful in looking up other Tesla repair costs.

Tesla cars are so heavy, if they were on railroad tracks, I bet you might see a few sparks if they tried to brake hard.

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>mfw all the Musk worship
>people seriously think that he designs this shit all on his own without a team of engineers
>people think that he's so much more intelligent than anyone in all the industries he's involved in, and that he's altruistic

I have no idea why men who are too insecure to deal with male pattern baldness seem to be the hot thing these days, but whatever

>>17771221
in a way this

in happy to see nissan,GM,BMW etc build electric cars. I fucking hate this bullshit notion in the world right now, about how everything has to be a fucking tech company.

>>17773259
he is the new steve jobs in almost everyway.

>When EVfags still don't have an answer for those of us who have the NEED to drive 300 to 500 miles within a day, in an SUV or pickup truck loaded with equipment, sometimes several times a week

Any battery would shit itself in no time flat, because supercharging would be necessary, since any time fucking around in the city costs me monis I could be charging to my customers, and 20 minutes is an eternity already

And before anyone pipes in, yes, changing drivers while doing a 4 to 7 minute fuel-up is a thing, if fatigue worries you so much

>>17770891
I used to easily hit 3-400 miles a day round trip and close to 800 on the weekends. You plebs dont drive anywhere

>>17773323
You people are a tiny minority, not even .1%.

>>17773369
Nice sources

>>17773323
>Tesla wants to make an electric big rig with a 300 mile range
I don't even know how that'll work, that charging times alone would be ridiculous and that range is pitiful

>>17770452
>Sample sizes of 1 now enough to prove a point on cars reliability

>>17773369
Couple questions:
1)Where did you get that number from?
2)How do you know how many people require a larger (SUV or pickup style) vehicle with a load capacity of, say, 400 kilograms or higher, for their daily duties?
3)Do the people that work matter?
4)Do the people whose work and life depends on us, those who travel to fix things, in our own vehicles, matter?

>>17773377
>how that'll work
I also thought about that for the longest time. About the only way to improve efficiency is to go the way of the diesel locomotive
The amount of energy required to move a 40-ton wall at 80 km/h is STUPID high. People don't realize just how much fuel those things guzzle just to get by EMPTY

The only way I see it working it it HAS to be with batteries, even with some fantastic batteries that don't need that much cooling, is replacing the engine, transmission, etc. as well as packing the whole "empty" area in the chassis with battery packs...and then make some of them quickly-replaceable, because you can't be dicking around with your truck either, unless you want to lose loadsa money

Of course, a thing that weighed what, 7 to 10 tonnes empty? Is now MUCH heavier, and basically a chemical bomb, too. Better hope it doesn't go off a cliff or twist it's chassis or it'll be a NASTY place to be, and a costly clean-up

I've seen alot more of various Tesla models here in Montana... And anyone who lives in Montana, knows that most of the LARGE cities are hundreds of miles apart... and not all of them have charging stations for Teslas

It's funny, because it's mostly old "I am entitled to everything" people who drive them, Who park like shit, and hog the fast lane going 70-75 mph (Speed limit here is mostly 80mph) and then flip you off when you try to pass them in the slow lane.

They are gimmick cars. The concept is cool, but once they can get better range on less charging time, the cost comes down, And they don't get totaled out after hitting a pebble in the road... they MIGHT be okay for a main daily driver.

>>17773744
Surprise, Teslas are just toys for rich people who want to feel morally superior to their neighbours driving S Classes, 7 Series, and A8s

>>17773744
That's always been the plan but looks like /o/ has been a shill battleground to the point where realistic expectations don't matter anymore

>>17773478
Fully loaded semi's can get over 6 mpg @ 60 mph which isn't too horrific considering how much they weigh. That's highway of course, In the city it's a whole different story.

An electric semi using glorified laptop cells is a pipe dream though. With batteries that aren't completely pathetic it's definitely possible. Allegedly these cells exist in laboratories but are still a bit sketchy. Were still another 5 years away at the minimum.

The industrial mining and heavy diesel-electric industries would be all over good batteries as most their shit is driven by electric motors already. Same with ships.

>>17773925
>The industrial mining and heavy diesel-electric industries would be all over good batteries as most their shit is driven by electric motors already. Same with ships.
>Same with ships.
>ships
You are a retard.

>>17772074
Do you have a source for that pricing? Most of the equipment in these car's (I know the battery for sure) are bolted to the subframe of the car, and it's not an easy task to replace them. Also what conditions was the car driven through? What times of year was it used? Was it all highway miles or a combination of city and highway?
>>17772130
Another big problem is that these Tesla are ludicrously susceptible to major damage with minor accident due to the major of the value of the car (ie the batteries) being bolted to the subframe. The biggest problems I see with this car are: 1. Lack of a reliable/affordable used market, since the batteries themselves can cost almost, if not just as much as the price of the car to have replaced 2. Safety of repaired vehicles, as I've heard reports (sorry for no source, kinda drunk atm) of them catching fire electrical motors and power systems are easy mishandled by a waged employee 3. The lack of production/replacement parts; Musk couldn't even meet his quota, nonetheless his massive overestimate, how do you think that he'll be able to keep up with a demand for spare parts or even just vehicles when the supply of lithium dwindles or hits a crash? I'm not sure why this isn't discusses, lithium-ion batteries are major drawback on these machines.

Sure, the price per mile these things can be driven is quite impressive, but I don't see them as being the future of transportation as they're not built to last. My car is over 20 years old, and even if I'm an idiot only changing the oil every 7,000 miles and my engine blows the fuck up, for less than $1500 I can have a new(ish) crate motor swapped in with only 40k on the clock. And not to mention the recycling process or the construction process of these batteries, they're incredibly bad for the environment, and depending on what state you live in, coal is the primary source of fuel for electric.

Musk can hype his fanboys all he wants, but electric cars have a long way to go.

>>17773925
>same with ships
>with ships

>I have no idea what I'm talking about but hopefully no one will notice!!1!

>>17770477
>floor it at every light and supercharge it and it'll go to shit pretty quickly

Same goes for any car

>>17774284
>>17775832
Holy fuck. Take your fucking meds. Don't you got some anime girls to post or something?

>>17775840
Millions of delivery and fleet vehicles don't have any issues doing it day after day.

>>17775859
>Millions of delivery and fleet vehicles don't have any issues doing it day after day.

They're not built like Tesla cars. These delivery and fleet vehicles were designed with servicing in mind. Tesla cars are mostly aluminum. They have various steel pieces bonded with adhesives and rivets to steel pieces. It's like a blocky jigsaw puzzle. Only some of the pieces are steel so it looks likes a blocky _patchwork_ jigsaw puzzle.

That mix of aluminum and steel behaves oddly in a crash. Everyone here should know that aluminum stretches and doesn't compress back into shape like steel partially does in a chassis jig. Thus those pieces have to be unwelded (cut out) or removed if bonded with adhesives (cut out) and replaced with new pieces. But what? It's a jigsaw puzzle. To get to bad piece 87, you have to remove good piece 83, damaged piece 90, 91, good piece 92, good piece 93. Removing 83 and 91 damages them, so those good pieces become bad in the attempt to repair bad piece 87. This fictional story is here to show you that repair of Tesla cars due to that patchwork aluminum unibody frame is problematic and expensive compared to a normal ICE car that doesn't have a frame that is both light and able to support half a ton of batteries in the middle of the car.

Look up on youtube the video of How It's Made Tesla for a documentary on tesla cars. You'll see how the motors are made, wound, and encapsulated. They aren't repairable in the traditional sense of rewinding motors. They simply have whole assemblies yanked out and replaced as the "repair".

>>17770477
>228 miles a day
>driving like a grandma

>>17771684
You know the article is from Finland, right? While we don't get just that hot summer days, 30°c in the summer is not out of the ordinary and - 30°c in the winter is neither. This guy uses it as a taxi. Nuff said.

>>17776588
>>17775840
>same goes for any car
>actually nah Teslas are different
Make up your mind

>>17772286
>a NEW sexy Golf GTI
>how can I get even more electrical failures than an all electric?

>>17772933
This guy is literally retarded. Thats a rail grinder, not heavy breaking. Fucking autisfic motherfucker.

>>17777043
Right? If a train braked that hard it'll lock up it's wheels and fly off the track

>>17776756
There's no mind to be made up on certain things:
It's clear the tesla repair costs are high.
It's clear the tesla maintenance costs are high if something breaks down.
It's clear tesla prevents home mechanics from working on the cars due to security stickers and security paint over bolts, nuts, and sealed off access.

It's just that some tesla fans are trying to obscure things. Tesla cars were made with elon musk's attitude that cost of production be reduced without ease of maintenance by the consumer being a factor. It's clear that elon musk doesn't want consumers to maintain tesla cars.

>>17770452
>same battery
Needed repair
>did repair consist of any new cells?

>>17770788
engines and transmission wears. your car loses power and efficiency as you drive it.

>>17770452
Wow, congrats, every major functioning portion of the car failed and had to be repaired or replaced. Meanwhile my 20 yo luxobarge just passed 250K with no more than routine wear items, a radiator, fan motor, and some suspension parts.
Thanks for confirming Tesla is garbage.

>top lel
>get fucked

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What will all the anti EV muslims of /o/ complain about in 3 years ?

Why is everyone so pleased financing terrorism at the gas station ?

>>17770452
So let's see:
>1 battery replacement
>1 motor replacement
>power steering broke
All of the components needed to drive the car broke once in 400K km. That's pretty goddamn awful if you ask me, especially considering what those replacements cost with Tesla.

>>17777494
>driven at a lower rate than the tesla
>from a car maker that has been making cars for decades or over a century.

So, do we have any input from someone knowledgeable about these points?

>>17773478

Still waiting for an answer

One thing my buddy and I discussed a lot: how long is that battery going to last if, say, buddy supercharges his double-cab pickup in 3-5 minutes (because he's paying people to sit in there doing nothing, mind you), since that's about the time it takes for a normal re-fuel in here, and how much range can he expect down the highway and then back and forth in gravel roads, when he has loaded a welder, a portable cement mixer, a small diesel generator and 30-50 liters of fuel for it, plus 3 guys weighing in at 90 kilos each, shovels and an assortment of other tools

Lots of applications where electric could work, and lots where it needs to improve a whole lot, because it'll shit itself in no time (can't have battery packs overheating, even in our 40°C weather and carrying 600-900 kg of equipment/towing a Bobcat or similar, people need their houses built, that dam needs to get done ASAP, etc)

>>17777494

Forgot about a leak in fuel tank that costs what $50 to fix every 300 miles or so?

>>17777899
>loaded a welder, a portable cement mixer, a small diesel generator

Blue collar folk will not have an option but to drive gas cars for decades to come.

>>17777940
Well then, I guess most folk in /o/ shouldn't worry unless they bend over for some forced love by the EPA/whoever the hell decides it's time to enforce "environmentally friendly" chunks of heavy metals propelling the cars of erryone

>>17772146
>remains a premium toy for rich people.
are you poor? Why are you here? Please leave you poor wagie.

>>17770452

>Motor had been replaced once

That sounds spendy. Heavy duty/high torque/high HP electric motors don't come cheap. Google search shows Telsa apparently uses a 362 HP 3 phase AC motor, search on Ebay shows prices starting at $5k or better for a used version with similar power....

I'd also be interested to know how many times the battery pack has been quick charged/supercharged/whatever they call it.

>>17777992

I'm poor by amerifat standards since shitty euroslav so no Tesla for me but I'm after Nissan Leaf for DD, will keep truck and gf still has regular car if needed.

I'm gonna rip rear half of interior out, get rid of spare and usual stuff, hopefully it'll be zippy enough around town.

Only shit I'm kinda worried about it battery degradation due to heat since we have 3-4 very hot months during summer.

>>17777992
In the US everyone is rich apparently, since everything you need is to do is borrow money from your local bank and you're done.

>>17770788
Imagine your MPG going down the more you drove it.

>>17772220
You can launch a Demon at every stoplight if you choose. It's still going to fuck up the engine, no matter how well built it is for hard launches.

>>17770788

And it does, do you think your shitbox now gets the same mileage as when it was new?

>>17778046
Mine does, 15 years and 200k km yet I score 25 km/l easily with AC.

Reckless driving and poor maintenance however do not.

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>>17770452
>Yeah it's pretty reliable, just had to change out the engine once, no biggie

>>17778020
Is that the standard? Do people in the US really have 2 mortgages and stuff like that?

Am genuinely curious, since I know plenty of people who own more than two or three houses, and they wouldn't get a mortgage or go for bank assistance, only literally very poor retards go for that, and tend to get screwed. Maybe it's different in 'Murica tho
>>17778046
Yea, on all our cars, mileage doesn't decrease unless we act like tards lel

Gas car: after 20 minutes of ultrasonic injector cleaning, it's back to normal, from ever so slightly high fuel consumption. Good fuel/air filters, and compression Czech indicates it's all gud at 110k miles, still gets the 32 MPG at highway that the first owner claimed

Same with our diesel trucks, although cleaning the nozzles on those is a bit more delicate, but still entirely doable if you aren't a mouth-breather

>>17778046

>do you think your shitbox now gets the same mileage as when it was new?

I drove a 12 year old car for a while, still got 30-32 MPG regularly with it. New from the factory it was rated at 27 MPG combined city/highway, my commute was about 15 miles of highway with another 10-15 miles of city traffic.

>>17778089
Dunno, it's some kind of cultural thing to be in debt apparently.

Also I like to use every once on a while Q8 high-quality diesel as it already shipped with cleaners for injectors and the fuel rail.

>>17777197
And with a few hundred dollars worth of parts at most you can get most of that back over a weekend

>>17778046
My 2009 Accord still gets like 35 highway when it was rated for 29 highway new

>>17777899
You aren't the target market for EVs. Most people don't use their vehicles that way, they use them for driving to work and back and around town.

>>17776649
Generally people that do that much distance take their time and set the cruise control to 5 under.

>>17776724
Ehh I've heard of some people having issues here in Alberta during the winter. It may be fine in the city but I definitely wouldn't want to be trapped in one when you're 100kms from cell phone reception in a -30c blizzard. I've always wondered how long the heater would last.

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>>17778175
>I've always wondered how long the heater would last.

Still longer than average euro diesel car.

Was caught in blizzard, was not even that cold like -15C and first there was no heat at idle, had to rev the shit out of engine to get lukewarm air coming out of vents, that lasted for about and hour and then fuel froze and that was it.

Left the car there, came to pick it up few days later with 20l of hot diesel, threw than into tank, blew the lines with air, replaced fuel filter - was full of ice, soaked injector pump with hot water and only then it barely started up.

Hate them fucking diesels and it was fucking toyota, with vw I would have to wait for spring to come.

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>>17778126
>it's some kind of cultural thing to be in debt apparently.
Image very much related

All the people I know avoid any kind of debt, be it with private banks, national/state banks, or personal debts, like the plague

Just WHY

>>17778161
Been told that EVs can replace pretty much anything short of aircraft engines,though. Whatever the case, what's in for those people, then? City dwellers get EVs and workers/others opt out?

Personally, if I were to buy anything, I'd be looking for an off-road capable, simple, reliable, compact SUV...and electric motors can deliver torks for crawling and mudding, so as long as they can be protected from water/dust/debris and not overheat as well, that's a good point, but the whole EV thing won't work well for supercharging out in the trails/boonies

>>17778334

Most families have two or more cars and they'll just replace the most used one with electric.

>>17778279
Meanwhile my Mercedes diesel starts right up in -40 weather

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Just tell me when theyre gonna make this shit for actually use.

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>>17772162

>>17778089
>since I know plenty of people who own more than two or three houses
During the downturn, lots of people were able to buy extra properties for very cheap. So they did just that. Some of my neighbors own extra houses and simply rent them out. The rent pays off the mortgage and more and so they are biding time. The downturn was actually good to wealthy and rich people as it allowed them to acquire many properties and even ownership of companies that the lower half of the middle class and poor had to surrender.

>>17778383
The normie does not regard itself with such menial task, they have much more important buttons to push and spreadsheets to make

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>>17778383

At beginning they'll probably be more like rich men toys.

This looks cute and has proper suspension, 10" travel, double wishbone with beefy arms.

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>>17778383
http://bollingermotors.com/

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>>17778439
>>17778447
I wish I was rich

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>>17777526
*could
>6 million articles per year about groundbreaking battery tech. Just around the corner!
Literally nothing
>6 million articles per year about amazing solar tech. Just around the corner.
Liiterally nothing.

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>>17778439
I dont get why you yanks loose your shit over boxy stuff. She's only a body mate.

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>>17778504

You didn't get the memo, boxy is back.

It's hip to be square.

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>>17778504
>>17778541

>>17778541
is there any way to get this thing to america and get around the 25 year rule?

>>17778541
Why tho? We have cheap low drag bodies and the ability to make them in large quantities. Why throw away 30 years of car design and manufacturing just to please jeepfags?

>>17778613
Because utilitarian both in nature and looks
Because cheaper to make, fix, modify
Because approach/ventral/departure angles

And lastly
Because people want it. Kinda how retards want a goddamn touchscreen in a car, which makes -9001 sense, since you have no tactile feedback and a large slick surface in a moving platform, instead of buttons and levers that tell you exactly what you need without having to divert your eyes off the road

>>17778755
But the ramp angles are no different, plus lower fuel effeciency. This is 100% because of jeepfags.

>>17778762
Read the last paragraph, bae

>>17770901
the fuck is ICE?

>>17778541
>inb4 suzuki uses that as a new slogan

>>17770452
I almost wish I had one now that my car isn't making oil pressure

>>17779656
internal combustion engine. Its only used by electric hippies.

>>17770452
>>Battery had a malfunction but got repaired
>>Motor had been replaced once
>>Power steering has broken once
thanks for beta testing this shit.
i'll buy it once nissan leaf get gud.

>>17779908
you know its not going to last the century

>>17779922

Yeah, lets not forget that thing is made in USA which is not really know for quality automotive products.

>>17770452
Annnnd that thing is worth $18k now