Heel and toe

>>17724716
It's a meme, you can't do it unless you're a manlet anyway

>>17724716

Practice it anytime you near a traffic light.

To benefit from meme techniques you have to be an autistic Finn that's been rallying since he'd been 5 years old.

File: 2218323d1459221396-lets-see-your-other-cars-aubs3rdb-day-nsxsdetailed9-09-whrrc.jpg (88KB, 800x600px) Image search: [Google]

88KB, 800x600px

0 use on the street.

only useful when racing when driving at >8/10's.

faggots will disagree but that's what makes them faggots.

>tfw you wear a size 13 shoe (US)
I've yet to learn how to do it reliably.

>>17724751

I can't do it for the life of me. Pretty sure my size 14's are cause of this.

>>17724751
>tfw manlet size 10

>>17724770
No, it does have a use in street driving, downshifting for a downhill turn. Means you can keep braking on the approach without having to lift off to blip the throttle

>>17724780
I wear euro 45 and cannot do it either
>>17724784
But can you do it?

Only matters on track day, bro. In normal driving, you don't need it.

>>17724751
>can't do it unless you're a manlet
Hadn't thought about this.
Am I fucked at 6'2 with size 13's?

>>17724770
>0 use on the street.
So when I'm breaking while approaching a stop light, I should break, downshift, break some more, downshift again, and repeat until I stop?

>busriders mad because they can't heeltoe effectively

>>17724804
Yeah probably, It's more about foot size than height though.

>>17724831

you breke until you're at the low point of that gear's rpm, then you press in the clutch and come to a stop.

if you don't come to a stop you pop it into a lower gear, rev match if necessary, and let the clutch out.

>>17724831
Just let off the gas ahead of time, brake as necessary and clutch in before you stop.

>>17724799
I'm OP, so no

I wear size 8 shoes and can heel toe like a mad man

File: 359[1].jpg (28KB, 800x533px) Image search: [Google]

28KB, 800x533px

>>17724804
If you have wide feet it's possible to do it with the sides of your foot but it's harder to rock your foot than to tip so you might want to get a bigass throttle pedal which helps a lot.

>>17724891
Jesus christ anon, wash your shoes

>>17724831
Why not just put it on neutral and brake until you stop?

>>17724773
Side of your foot. I can 'heel toe' with my work boots on in my beater.

it's a meme and you for daily driving you won't gain anything (anything other than satisfaction, god it feels good when done right), but there is no harm in learning it.

>>17724763
it should be super useful on the track day. i'm too poor for this, but i'm playing racing sims and i improved since i started heel-toeing. Smoothness is super important.

>>17724831
Have you ever driven a manual and because the answer is no why are you posting in a thread like this?

File: dreek.jpg (64KB, 300x300px) Image search: [Google]

64KB, 300x300px

>>17724946
Thats not what neutral is for.

>>17724961
No but from everything I've read it doesn't damage the car at all. So why not? If you need to speed back up you can just shift into the gear appropriate for the speed.

>>17725061

Yeah man You'll be fine

I do it all the time on my Alfa because it's got closely spaced pedals/I have wide feet and it's fun, also it's nice to downshift so smoothly passengers can't feel it.

>>17724891
I'm not sure how you reckon that it's harder to rock your foot sideways with your heel as a fulcrum than it is to hold your foot in midair and press both pedals.

>>17724716
>Skill less bus riders in this thread claiming it's a meme.
>Useful for like 2 corners on my commute to work

No you don't need to learn it, but it's a useful skill and fun to practice.

do it regular just for the fun it gives
god atleast being a manlet gave me this joy

>>17725061
>>17724946
leaving it in gear helps you slow down

>>17727161
This is true. Downshifting is key for a safe stop.

>>17724961
Then what the fuck is neutral for

>>17724716
If you're a fucking try hard then yeah go ahead and learn it, but it's only useful if you're
>a: stopping really hard
Or
>b: cornering really fast

Not pointless on a track for sure, but if you're not doing any racing then it's not necessary.

>>17724961
>>17724831

Are you both seriously that retarded?

It does have a use, but probably not for your grandad. I can do it, but pretty much only use it while I'm driving like an asshole.
>approach quiet roundabout way too fast
>heel toe to second gear, high rpm
>accelerate hard as soon as I can, bounce off limiter before shifting

i use it whenever im going into any corner, regardless of the environment.
obviously if youre just driving around the city its never gonna come handy.

btw if youre going 40 and a redlight appears in front of you, you just brake until 0 basically. alternatively you can brake, downshift/rev match so youll stay in gear if that makes you feel safer (actually usefull if you see a car behind you or something unsafe in front of you so you can still be in the powerband for any quick getaway)


heel toe generally is just for smooth corners, not necessary but sometimes just feels good

Doesn't engine braking wear out your engine? Why wear out something that's expensive as fuck and a pain in the ass to fix rather than using the cheap disposable pads that were designed exactly for that?

I only engine brake on long drives through hills where I'm concerned about brake pads overheating. Anyone engine braling to stop on flat surfaces outside of emergency situations probably does like 30 over the speed limit or likes pretending to be a truck driver

>>17727281
>engine spinning causes breakage

>>17727281
engine braking is awful and the mere sound and feel of it reveals its horrendous impact on your tranny.
rather just brake and rev match t b h

rather wear out brake pads than the tranny

>>17727297
>constantly dumping unnecessary/large loads onto your drivetrain doesnt wear it out

>>17724946
In the event of an emergency where you need to apply more throttle and you're adding an extra step between your reaction time and hitting the throttle. You should really only be in neutral at a stop

>>17724831
when you approach a stop put it in neutral downshift to first then when the light is green take off again. simple

>>17724751
>>17724763
>>17724770
>>17724796
>>17724803
>>17724959
>>17727202

Jesus christ /o/ learn to drive.

Gears go up and down.
Changing down gears is an integral part of driving.
If you want to change down gears smoothly without riding your clutch you'll need to blip the throttle.
If you want to blip the throttle while breaking you'll need to heel-toe.

>approaching corner in 3rd -> lightly brake -> heel toe into second - > still lightly braking -> turn corner -> gently roll on throttle -> change up again
Or:
>approaching corner in 3rd -> brake lightly -> turn corner -> gently roll on throttle -> engine chugging and heaving -> realize your engines out of its powerband -> change down gear -> accelerate -> change up gear
Which one would you rather?

>>17727413
Or you know, just downshift into second gear

>>17727423
When?

>>17727426
After you brake to the proper speed

>>17727436
so you ride the clutch?

>>17727437
Yeah, for like 2 seconds, or, you know, put it in neutral?

>>17727439
>put it in neutral
Cunning plan but you have to drive off sooner or later and you're not going anywhere in neutral! So how do you put it into gear?
>ride the clutch for like 2 seconds
Well there you go; not smooth, wears the clutch and still wears the driveline. Learn to heel-toe, it's smoother and more gentle.

learn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8etqDZL5abU

>>17727281
Yes engine braking is bad, but when you're Heel-Toe you're using your breaks and not adding load in to the drivetrain.

TLDRl; Heel-Toe is better than non rev matching downshifting

File: AQiYrNb.jpg (223KB, 1080x1920px) Image search: [Google]

223KB, 1080x1920px

>>17727413
Here's what I would do.
>approach corner
>light braking
>turn corner and downshift to second at the same time (rev matching if course)
>drive away
No try hard heel toe, minimal engine wear, drive away in correct gear

>>17727479
>>approach corner
>>light braking
>>turn corner and downshift to second at the same time (rev matching if course)
>>drive away

or you can

>approach corner
>heel-toe
>drive away

>>17727447
>how do you put it in gear?

>depress clutch pedal
>select gear
>blip throttle
>release clutch pedal

>not smooth
>braking hard enough to effectively heel toe will still spill your drink
>also: what is rev matching

>wears the clutch and driveline
>people are actually more willing to burn gas and engine wear items than use their clutch for its intended purpose

Listen, when you heal-toe properly, the minimal wear incurred to the drivetrain is in the opposite direction to the normal wear. The components will need replaced from the normal wear before the heal-toe downshift wear. IIRC certain countries require drivers to not downshift and put the shifter into neutral while coming to a stop for their driving tests.

File: 1499149687916.jpg (91KB, 537x555px) Image search: [Google]

91KB, 537x555px

>>17727491
I'll take the one that gives less engine wear, thanks

>>17727534
so the latter? good choice.

File: 1469271856320.jpg (340KB, 800x807px) Image search: [Google]

340KB, 800x807px

>>17727542
>using the engine to absorb large amounts of energy
>less wear

>>17727499
Modern cars shut off the injectors when downshifting.

>>17727549
Brakes are doing all the work you fucking idiot.

>>17727479
Ok so you're braking, then releasing the brake and coasting in third, then coasting with the clutch in, then coasting in second, then driving away.
This isn't smooth but it's probably the best alternative to heel-toe.
>try hard heel toe
"try hard" is the insult used by losers to decry people who are better than them. If you're going to do anything in life why not "try hard" to do it as good as you possibly can?

>>17727499
Again this requires coast time between braking and accelerating, it's less smooth and it's never good to be applying different forces ( 3rd -> clutch -> 2nd) to the driving wheels, especially if the car is rear wheel drive, while turning.
If you do it before the turn than you have to brake, then coast, then turn, and that's not good either.

>braking hard enough to effectively heel toe will still spill your drink
Well if that's your experience obviously you're shit at it, I can heel to at any rate of braking and I do it all the time in day to day driving as smooth as you like.

>>17727576
Wrong.
Brakes are doing some of the work yes, but the engine is also slowing down the car.

>>17727190
You put it when ur idling in traffic or at traffic lights. You can also use it to cruise in light downhills to save gas, just put it in gear when you brake so you don't cook your brakes needlessly..

>>17727587
Are you fucking retarded or just pretending? do you know that you rev match when you Heel-Toe?

>>17727609
Yeah you rev match to a higher rpm than usual. Then engine break to a lower rpm, and repeat. Thus, the engine is working to slow the car down.

>>17727626
ok you're actually retarded.

>>17727626
You can heel-toe at any rpm mate.

>>17727532
When I was taking my driving licence I wasn't told anything about engine breaking I knew about it but never used it during the courses and even after that but since that one time where some fucking minivan stopped on a dime in the snow and I barely managed to not rear end him I started doing it
Ofc I dont need to anymore because I bought an auto and it engine brakes for me

>>17724716
This was useful for when my 3TC died at idle.

File: CVT_Increase_Enginebreaking.png (133KB, 1016x699px) Image search: [Google]

133KB, 1016x699px

>>17727649
You'd be surprised that some automatics are also designed to be downshifted

>>17727281
Depends on how hard you're braking with the engine because if it's just regular downshifting or letting off the throttle then it's fine but if you're one of those retards that downshift at 6000 rpm then you will kill your transmission. Engine braking is essentially okay if used in conjunction with the regular brakes and don't let other retards fool you into thinking otherwise.

>>17727447
>Well there you go; not smooth, wears the clutch and still wears the driveline. Learn to heel-toe, it's smoother and more gentle.
Heel-toe only makes sense if you're at high speed and high revs and want to maintain the speed through the corner. At regular street driving the gear synchros will do the job.

>>17727740
>At regular street driving the gear synchros will do the job.
Do what job? Allow the gears to mesh together? That's what synchros do.
But thanks for showing you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

How are you going to match your engine rpm with your road speed?
A: Ride the clutch
B: Blip the throttle
The choice is yours, heel-toe is smoother at all speeds and rpm if done correctly.

>>17727879
If your synchros aren't fucked then there is no issue you moron and riding the clutch won't do anything bad. You're not gonna ride it for long anyway and blipping the throttle will maintain the revs and speed so it won't aid you in slowing down whereas riding the clutch will because you will reduce the engine revs.

>>17727940
>riding the clutch won't do anything bad
just stop

>>17727957
It won't you idiot, other than wearing the clutch which is not that bad compared to murdering your transmission if you mismatch the revs and just dump the clutch.

>>17724946
you only do this if you have to brake hard to a complete stop because doing that while in gear is going to wreck your shit.

but that is what I basically do (though I try to milk engine braking beforehand until it goes below 1.5k RPM) since there's no point downshifting to lower gears to milk engine braking that hard when brake pads are cheap as fuck and easier to replace compared to the gear synchronizers. It already grinds like 1% of the time I shift to 2nd gear, feels bad.

>>17727940
>>17727967
>using the clutch as a brake
That's just silly, you're both a bad driver and have little mechanical knowledge, although you appear to think you do.

Rev matching (done correctly) is the smoothest, gentlest, least damaging way to drive a manual and rev matching while braking is the smoothest way to rev match.
There's a reason classic racing drivers do it (they seldom bother now); because it's the smoothest way to drive and smooth = fast.

>>17727979
>>17724946
If you brake without pressing the clutch, you use two forces to brake which makes it easier. If you press the clutch or put it to neutral, you will only use brake pads which will make your braking longer.

Best way is to just press brake until your engine is about to stall and then just press the clutch to full stop with only the brakes.

>>17727989
>Rev matching (done correctly) is the smoothest, gentlest, least damaging way to drive a manual and rev matching while braking is the smoothest way to rev match.
Of course it is but you if you mismatch the gear they you will fuck your transmission. And the clutch. And in a low powered car the throttle blip just doesn't work and/or isn't worth it. On the street there's literally no point doing this shit.

At low revs, which is what you will be driving on the street, clutch braking is the best option.

>>17727994
i know that, my point is that if you're going to a complete stop like at a red light. Downshifting to a lower gear is pointless because engine braking for a few seconds is negligible. Brake pads are cheap as fuck and it's easy to check if they need to be replace. I want to avoid wearing the transmission with daily commuting even if I revmatch all the time.

obviously it's a different context entirely if you're going down a hill or if you're driving an 18-wheeler. But it's never about saving up on cheap brake pads, no one should be reluctant to use their brakes as needed in most cases!

>>17728022
and to add to this, if you're downshifting to a lower gear to engine brake to a complete stop in a few seconds, it makes even less sense compared to just braking right away. Not like anyone should be heel-toeing in daily commutes anyways.

If you're in a situation to engine-brake crawl to a stop since the road is clear and the red light is at least 5 seconds away, then be my guest.

>>17727999
>Of course it is but you if you mismatch the gear they you will fuck your transmission. And the clutch.
1. Don't mismatch
2. Mismatching is only a problem if you get the revs too high, if you get the revs too low it's no different to riding the clutch (only you ride less so it's actually better)
3. If you get the revs too high the jerking back and forth may not be good for your thrust bearings but it most certainly will not "fuck your transmission" and will put less wear on your clutch than not rev matching at all

>And in a low powered car the throttle blip just doesn't work and/or isn't worth it.
I've driven plenty of low powered cars and no, just fucking no.

>On the street there's literally no point doing this shit.
Unless you want to drive smoother.

>At low revs, which is what you will be driving on the street, clutch braking is the best option.
No it's not the best, it's not a bad alternative but heel-toe is the best.

>>17728022
>Downshifting to a lower gear is pointless because engine braking for a few seconds is negligible.
True. Although if you wanna brake hard from a high speed then this is superior. Plus you get to feel like a cool guy when you downshift.

Either way, I'd say that engine braking is actually safer. You don't have to rely only on the brakes. They wear down but you also have to deal with the temperatures they will be withstanding which might lead to the brakes suddenly failing on you. This had it's name but I can't recall it right now.

>>17728034
>I've driven plenty of low powered cars and no, just fucking no.
Just stop, anon. With low powered cars the throttle blip isn't even a blip, and in that case it's just not even worth it.

>Unless you want to drive smoother.
You will not really drive that much smoother.

>2. Mismatching is only a problem if you get the revs too high, if you get the revs too low it's no different to riding the clutch (only you ride less so it's actually better)
If you mismatch you will jerk the car and that will either kill your clutch or the tranny if you connect too fast because of the differences in revs. You'll literally hammer the tranny if you mismatch.

>>17724716

It's a meme for daily driving, you only do it if you're driving a track car that you regularly rebuild.

Never fucking engine/shift brake, that shit kills transmissions and puts too much stress on the engine.

>>17728055
brake fade but in daily commutes, that should only be relevant if someone is riding the brakes the entire time going downhill, or just riding the brakes in general on an automatic car

>>17728070
>Just stop, anon. With low powered cars the throttle blip isn't even a blip, and in that case it's just not even worth it.
1 litre 3 cyl Daihatsu Sirion? Excellent throttle response.
Too new? How about a 1979 Toyota Corolla 1.3 carb? Excellent throttle response.

>You will not really drive that much smoother.
So you admit that you will drive smoother? Finally you admit heel-toe is, in fact, the best.

>If you mismatch you will jerk the car and that will either kill your clutch or the tranny if you connect too fast because of the differences in revs. You'll literally hammer the tranny if you mismatch.
You know you can let the clutch out just as slowly as you do when you're not rev matching at all, making it no more "dangerous to your transmission" as your super-pro-best-ever clutch riding technique.

Stop talking as if you are an authority, you're not.

>>17728102
Not another one of you idiots....
If you don't engine brake, EVER, than how to you go from slowing down to speeding up again? You have to use the clutch to match the revs sooner or later and THAT WEARS THE DRIVELINE, heel-toe is the smoothest, least wearing way to do it.

>>17728123

>Not another one of you idiots

I'm a dealer mechanic you shitburger.

Rev matching to a higher gear when accelerating is completely different from downshifting to slow down, the amount of inner forces involved is magnitudes different.

Just use the fucking brake pads you smelly larpers, they were designed to be worn.

>>17728133
>dealer mechanic
Is that supposed to be a qualification? Dealer mechanics are the stupidest cunts in the world, never mind the terrible reputation you have - HOW STUPID DO YOU HAVE TO BE TO CHOSE MECHANICS AS YOUR OCCUPATION?

But since you're here;
How do you do >>17727413 without engine braking?

Is engine braking just not blipping the throttle when you downshift?

>>17728198
engine braking is any time you have your foot off the accelerator but the car is still in gear - the engine is slowing the car.
There are many ways to engine brake and riding the clutch is probably the worst.

>>17728116
>So you admit that you will drive smoother? Finally you admit heel-toe is, in fact, the best.
You will drive smoother and I said that, but the issue here is that it won't be that significant when you consider the risk of mismatching and killing your tranny.

>Too new? How about a 1979 Toyota Corolla 1.3 carb? Excellent throttle response.
Try a 1.6 Civic

>You know you can let the clutch out just as slowly as you do when you're not rev matching at all, making it no more "dangerous to your transmission" as your super-pro-best-ever clutch riding technique.
And ride the clutch slowly? What's the point of revmatching here again?

>>17728313
>And ride the clutch slowly? What's the point of revmatching here again?
It makes your point of "OMG REV MATCHING IS HUGE RISK GET IT WRONG ONCE AND BLOW YOUR TRANNY RAAAAAAAAA" moot.
You can rev match without risk if you're so shit that you think you might get it wrong.

Btw I've driving a 1.6 single cam Civic and it had even better throttle response than the Sirion.

File: 0Dp85rL.jpg (933KB, 2304x2304px) Image search: [Google]

933KB, 2304x2304px

>>17725061
Leaving it in neutral means you can't respond as quickly to a dangerous situation as you approach a stop, you don't benefit from engine braking, and you get worse fuel efficiency because when you are in gear and off throttle you are using 0 gas, but when you are in neutral and off throttle you are using a little gas to keep the engine turning.

>>17728328
>It makes your point of "OMG REV MATCHING IS HUGE RISK GET IT WRONG ONCE AND BLOW YOUR TRANNY RAAAAAAAAA" moot.
But your revs will drop if you let go of the clutch slowly so no point revmatching.

Jesus christ, anon you're dense as hell.

>Btw I've driving a 1.6 single cam Civic and it had even better throttle response than the Sirion.
Yeah I'm sure if you blip the throttle it'll go right to the 7000 rpm from the lower revs.

>everybody in this thread worrying about clutches that will last you 100k as long as you're not roasting the fuck out of it at every light

>>17728349
Nah, it's just ameritards who have no idea about driving a stick and think that they're the smartest because they just got a manny tranny car.

>>17724716
It's a racing technique so if you want to get into racing of sorts, sure, go ahead.
If you want to learn it just for the sake of knowing how to do it every now and then, yeah, learn it.
But you won't ever need it while regular driving, while rev-matching comes in handy in everyday use and left-foot braking is useful in some situations, heel-toeing is something I can only imagine being good for excessive speeding in the twisties

Only autists like this faggot >>17727413 heel and toe wvery shift.

Heel and toe has nothing to do with 'saving the clutch' and everything to do with weight balance. When you're hooning into a second gear corner in 4th/5th you want to avoid engine braking moving the car's balance, or potentially a wheel locking.

Heel and toe is only useful when driving at a car's linit of mechanical grip.

>>17724961
>t. american retard

>>17724831

>mfw I literally do this
>do this on track, shoot off the track on a turn

Practice time.

>>17724831
>t. Teenager who does not even drive a car
Fucking get back onto your bus

>>17724946
Fucking Americans learn to drive manual holy shit Americans piss me off

>>17724831

>brake down to stop
>as you reach stopping speed clutch in
>shift to neutral
>or shift to 2nd if not stopping

It's not hard

>>17728331
Retards allways leave the engine wear part out.
You chose what you want OP, negligibly better mileage and less cheap brake pad replacements, or an engine that will last longer due to no downshifting wear

>>17728429
Youre confusing left foot braking with heel toe

>>17728534
It's the tranny being worn if anything, anon.

>>17728343
If you let the clutch bite the revs wont drop. And you don't need 7k rpm to rev match for normal driving unless you're going from 4th to 1st.

>>17728429
>another clueless git talking like he's an authority
There's too much wrong with your post to address.

>>17728605
>If you let the clutch bite the revs wont drop. And you don't need 7k rpm to rev match for normal driving unless you're going from 4th to 1st.
Of course they will. Slower, but they will.
Revmatching could really only help you reduce the difference between revs so it will be easier on the tranny to handle it, but basically the better you match, the faster you can drop the clutch. Plus if you shift fast, you'll do it smoothly anyway, because most cars these days push the revs for you when you press the clutch. No need for the blip this way.

File: 1501794711405.jpg (134KB, 1000x800px) Image search: [Google]

134KB, 1000x800px

>>17724763
>tfw I am an autistic Finn that's been rallying since I've been 5 years old.
>tfw I actually do the heel toe meme on dirt roads

>>17728595

No, I'm not.

Left foot braking is used to move the balance if tue car forward, heel toe is used to keep the balance from moving further forward.

>>17728605

>there's too much wrong

You mean you're a memeing faggot who doesn't know what he's talking about?

>>17725128

Get a plate for your drivers pedal that extends it towards the brake, it's literally designed for side rocking or heel toeing.

>>17724716
are you a racing driver? then yes

are you a normal person? then no

>>17727413
>engine chugging and heaving

this doesn't happen to me when i change gear without heel-toe-ing because i don't change into the wrong gear.

ezpz

File: dankmemes.png (313KB, 834x612px) Image search: [Google]

313KB, 834x612px

ITT: mad autists that can't heel toe being mad at people who can
It allows for smoother downshifts and doesn't involve any extra work (unless your fatass ankles barely twist). It's second nature to me and I don't even think about it when downshifting. git gud

File: 1501805557179.png (71KB, 456x67px) Image search: [Google]

71KB, 456x67px

>>17724946
honestly for stopping at a light i downshift if im in 4th to 3rd and brake till near idle and then just neutral it. going through the box is pointless

>>17724716
I do it on the regular. Unless it's obvious I'm coming to a complete stop, I always heel toe before a corner or light. Better than lugging the engine through it. Even for a complete stop I'll put it in 2nd or 3rd (mostly). It's a lot safer to always be in gear. It helps you stop quicker in emergencies and you'll always be ready to accelerate to avoid anything. Please do not use your clutch and burn it to stop like some of the retards in this thread have said. In addition, if you get decent at heel toe there will be basically no reason to shift in any other way. It's very smooth once you get the hang of it. It also helps a lot to have a lightweight flywheel (10lbs in my car) which not only helps with smooth heel toe downshifts but your regular upshifts as well.

>>17731057
I guess the last thing I should address is the people in this thread complaining about wear to the engine and transmission.
They pretend like taking off from a light in 1st gear (and acceleration in general) does not put significant forces on the transmission greater than or equal to the forces that it experiences during "engine braking". Your transmission is built to take those forces. In addition you're applying the brakes during "engine braking" anyway to help ease the forces on the transmission.
Also to those who are worrying about their synchros, they're retarded. The wear when using heel toe is minimal at best when executed correctly. Not any more than your typical upshift. Also when "engine braking" they are not being engaged or disengaged, resulting in no wear (lack of friction from the engagement).
As far as the engine, there are no differences during the "engine braking" process. It's still being lubricated just fine and if anything is bearing the brunt of the forces it's your gears in your transmission (since they're the actual contact point between the 2 drivelines inside).
Given the above and some decent transmission fluid to lubricate the process you'll be fine.

>>17724716
>not modding your pedals lengths

>>17724910
>wash your shoes
What now?

While we are here, how come my car crunches a bit sometimes when I go into second gear? It's only around 1/10 times, but I bought it two weeks ago and it's a bit annoying. Happened for the first time going into fourth today too.

Got a receipt for a gearbox service from earlier this year so I'm not too sure why this is happening?

I am size 44(11 US) and use the side of my foot, otherwise I can't control the pressure I apply to the brake. It usually is a meme technique as you never need to be changing gears while braking.

Real question: my gas pedal is about 2 inches lower than my brake (they aren't in the same plane). I can't heel-toe for the life of me. Any tips?

>>17733431
Left ball of your foot on the brake, while the right side of your foot is used to blip the throttle. Your heel should be planted on the floor, closer in line with the throttle relative to the brake pedal. This is the only setup that I've been able to use to effectively rev match downshift while braking in my MKVII.

>>17724716
not a meme.
Learn to revmatch and you'll be surprised how you managed to live without it

>>17724770
disagree.
smoother and easier to change gears

>tfw double clutch rev match and heel toe every downshift
>tfw got through the gears at red lights
>tfw rarely ever brake in traffic
>tfw loud as fuck exaust
I enjoy my daily commute with my car.

>>17724763
>tfw the newest rally finnish prodigy is a kid who had to get special permit from the government for a underage driving license so he would drive between rally events as he beats adult professional drives every race

>>17733935

Heel and toe and revmatching are different things though.

>>17728331
LEAVE THE SNEL ALONE

I do it without thinking at this point, maybe because dad teached it to me at an ice track when i was like 10 years old.
doesn't really have any purpose when commuting but it just feels better to blip the throttle when downshifting.
Heel toe isn't as hard as people make it out to be, you'll learn it quickly.

>>17724716
I do it every day, daily driving. I wouldn't say its a meme. For me it was to get used to the motions and habit. So I could do it easily while autoxing or spirited driving. Its almost natural now, I do it mostly without thinking.

Id say learn, it will make you a better driver.

>>17728429
On high revs if you don't rev match and are driving an rwd car, you might end up shift locking the rear, the last thing you want to do when entering a corner is to let go of the clutch without rev matching.

I just brake, clutch in, stab the throttle, back onto the brake, shift down, clutch out then corner.

What's wrong with this method for straight line braking?

>>17734752
>I just brake
>...
>back onto the brake
Discontinuous. You'll lose a fraction of a second out of the turn and it won't be as smooth, especially on a decline.

>>17734777
Just from that small moment off the brakes? I have pretty good brakes. I'm doing a track day in 2 weeks, guess I better practice heel toe technique.

>>17724751
Tell that Walter Röhrl

>>17728198
No, that's clutch drag, which is terrible for the car.

File: 1500566732432.gif (2MB, 216x162px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 216x162px

>>17724716
It's a good skill to have but in daily city driving you won't use it often, if at all. I have one area I use it in because it's a pretty tight downhill double switchback with a stupidly sudden stop sign, in a 55. Thanks Washington.

>>17724804
Size 14 shoe here, its not much harder.
> at least i dont think it is...
It only gets tricky in cars that have smaller foot wells. i.e most Italian cars or older European cars.

boys I just bought a manual car and am picking it up next week and have no idea how to drive it. I need your best expert opinion on how to:
>start from a stop on a hill
>and how to break (you fags itt cant come to a conclusion)
>and what gear it should be in when the car is off / at a red light.
thanks bros

>>17734034
All heel and toe is rev matching.
Not all revmatching is heel and toe.
The statement you made you ONLY made to make that satement, it adds nothing of value to the conversation.
>>17734256
this, I had driven auto for 6 years and got a manual car and learned double clutching and heel toe in like 3k km.
Now at like 8k km in I can do it almost perfectly except heeltoe downshifts from generic commute rpm's (3k) which come out a bit janky.
In a race environment its fine tho, can even get into unsyncronized first now

>>17737075
>Hill
Handbrake on, release clutch until it starts to bite, FLOOR THE THROTTLE AND REMOVE HANDBRAKE
>Break
>Break
Brake. Just use the brake to slow down, downshift when the RPM gets too low, rinse repeat.
>Off/lights
In neutral, you dork. Personally, I leave my car in gear when it's off/parked, though.

>>17737075
>Hill start
Quickly get on the gas while letting out the clutch. You won't roll back that much. Alternatively use the handbrake to hold you in place while you do so.

>How to brake
Downshift or just pop it in neutral. It really doesn't make all that much difference.

>What gear it should be in
When the car is off and parked keep it in first. At a red light keep it in neutral with your foot on the brake. That will save you from wear on the throwout bearing, and if you happen to get rear ended and your foot slips off the clutch you won't bounce out into the intersection.

>>17734752
>>17734782
Firstly you look fucking retarded
>braking
>braking
>car jumps forward suddenly
>braking
>braking
>cornering

and it will offer an unsmooth ride. You don't understand that heel toe, double clutch, rev match all that shit also not only is good for the tranny but will give you CVT tier ride

For post B on track,
Nigger
fucking
trust me
you don't want to do anything unsmooth while braking or cornering
and you want your gearshifts to be the smoothest thing in the universe

Trust me you don't want to discover you're backwards at the middle of braking zone staring at a 911 GT3 screaming your way

Just
either do it properly or not at all

How common is it for you all to use the heel/toe on hillstarts?
Clutch coming out, brake on, heel on the throttle.

I've never use the handbrake before for hillstarts, got a mark off for not using the handbrake (Because the cable was loose and I didn't wanna get failed automatically like that).

>>17727534
Kek at that pic. Those are 25-30k new WTF

>>17724716
I use heel and toe in my Tesla and I think it helps a lot in my races and my daily commutes.

Heel toe is definitely not a meme,
especially with a rear wheel drive car under hard braking at speed and down shifting. Heel toe stops shift lock or compression lock up, which can kind of lock up the rear wheels.
It's easier to do when braking hard, give it a go at a car park or something

I can usually downshift pretty smoothly just by a blip of the throttle half a second before I lift off the clutch. My engine is NA so there's no turbo to keep spinning.

File: 128729731289.jpg (84KB, 533x700px) Image search: [Google]

84KB, 533x700px

>>17727281
>engine breaking wears out the engine

File: ass.jpg (24KB, 602x609px) Image search: [Google]

24KB, 602x609px

>>17724891
Is this your car? I have an S pack and find it impossible to heel toe. The accelerator is too far down.

>>17737613
adjust it then, or get good

or both

>>17727532
How does heel-toe cause wear in the opposite direction?

>>17737623
I'm thinking of adjusting the brake pedal by heating it up and just bending it further back since bringing the accelerator forward would stuff up the throttle cable?

>>17737648
do NOT do that to your brake pedal. The throttle cable can always be adjusted (even cut to length if the adjustment is out of range). You do not want to make the brake pedal metal brittle. Try bending the gas pedal's rod without heat and use heat as a last resort. If you fuck it up, you can always get another one new or from a junker

File: 1501219273546.jpg (19KB, 400x500px) Image search: [Google]

19KB, 400x500px

>>17728331
>as you approach a stop, you don't benefit from engine braking, and you get worse fuel efficiency because when you are in gear and off throttle you are using 0 gas

I don't think it works that way, anon.

>>17737670
Can confirm. When my car is off throttle and engine breaking it uses no gas.

>>17737670
The ECU in modern cars (eighties cars and newer) cut off all fuel going to the engine when you are decelerating while in gear. The engine wont stall since the wheels are turning the engine. If you are not in gear, the ECU needs to supply fuel, otherwise the engine will stall which is why coasting in neutral wastes gas and coasting in gear does not.

>>17737680
>>17737681

Wow, thanks. I didn't know that.

>>17724716
I used to do a version of this in trucks all the time. They don't have synchronized transmissions, so if you have to slow down in a hurry and drop a couple gears, it was pretty much necessary. So I would hit the brake with the left side of my right boot and roll it over so I was still pressing on the brakes but I could tap the throttle with the top of my boot and clutch out of gear, throw the R's and pit it in a lower gear to let the Jakes slow it down. Let the brakes cool a bit. Rinse repeat. This was in size 13 steel toes but the pedals are are lot further apart in a truck. I've never been able to do it in a 4 wheeler even though I got real good at it in a truck.

File: 1500795569753.jpg (45KB, 352x351px) Image search: [Google]

45KB, 352x351px

>>17724716

>too incompetent to find the perfect balance

>>17737660
wouldn't doing it without heat make it more prone to breaking?
Yeh you're right that the throttle cable can be adjusted so I'll just do that. But that then means that the clutch will be quite a bit further back than both the brake and accelerator.

>>17732435
ur gross know how i can tell?

>>17727479
you really shouldnt be shifting or braking mid corner. bad habit

>>17728102
where are you people getting your information?!

>>17737854
why?

>>17733398
synchros slightly worn or dirty trans fluid

>>17737875
you should be in the correct gear for corner exit upon entering a corner, shifting mid corner can upset the weight balance of the car causing one tire to lose grip.
same thing with braking, if you are braking in a corner weight is transfered forward, taking grip away from the rear.

of course during normal street driving in dry conditions this wont matter much, but if you are in the habit of doing so you run the risk of upsetting your cars balance accidentally in the snow, or even in the rain after a long dry period.

File: 1502133149909.jpg (21KB, 471x480px) Image search: [Google]

21KB, 471x480px

Do you blip the gas after or while downshifting?

File: IMG_0069.jpg (246KB, 1920x1095px) Image search: [Google]

246KB, 1920x1095px

>>17737127
If you have a handbrake you can use the handbrake to hold the car while you apply light throttle and let the clutch out. Once you feel the car start to want to move, start putting down the parking brake and begin to let off the clutch the rest of the way, while modulating the throttle.

File: GetVideo.webm (1MB, 320x240px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 320x240px

>>17724716
>tfw you heel and toe yourself into a $550 ticket in commiefornia feels bad man

>>17737642
Its the force applied against the teeth of gears and the crank while engine braking. When you are applying fuel the teeth in direction A are receiving the force, while when you are not applying fuel the teeth receive force in the opposite direction B.

>>17740487
no stop on right turn?
the neighboring city to mine recently put up lights to check for that. got a sick outside view of my car

File: 3000gt pepe 95.png (83KB, 575x431px) Image search: [Google]

83KB, 575x431px

>>17740708
yep, lol how much did your sick outside view cost? my paul walker audition was $550 with driving school

>>17738507
as soon as the clutch is disengaged

>>17724751

size 8 manlet, gotta do the side foot bullshit

>>17724716
>Racing with stick
Learn it, do it, love it.
>everyday driving
Naw man.

>>17724831
>clutch in
>move gear lever to second or third
>SLOWLY let out depending on how fast you'd like to slow down

isn't that hard

File: giphy (2).gif (3MB, 400x169px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 400x169px

>tfw Amerilard reading all the contradicting info itt