Better Engines

he looks like an urban hyena please tell me he keks

>>17709560
>10k engine swap power potential: xxxxhp
>"turbo upgrade" on a shit motor power potential: xxxhp on a good day

>>17709576
>implying hp is the only metric that matters

>>17709608
Smart people don't go chasing 1/4 mile waterfalls with small blocks.

>>17709609
True. Reliable horsepower matters though.

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Turbo upgrade is more fun and has more character. An unmeasurable metric that trumps all other metrics.

Captia: pic related

>>17709560
>>17709647

The naive words of people who have done neither a turbo rotary, or a LS build

>>17709576
Where does this 10k number come from? I understand most of /o/'s automotive experience is their dad patting them on the back for changing their oil, but most people swapping cheap a cheap chassis like an FC don't drop 10k on the swap.

Your average rotary rebuild these days costs as much as an alum LS long block, rotor housings are getting very expensive, and most are in need of replacement.

Rotary's are plenty of fun but getting one up to 400-500hp and being reliable enough to drive around town once in a while is nothing but cheap, and long run maintenance costs are much higher than piston engines.

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>>17709718
All the little bits and pieces add up. The mounting kit can be pricey if you don't fab it up yourself. Most people don't literally pull an engine out of a truck and throw it into a chassis. If you have the engine out you might as well rebuild it, That's obviously going to cost you. Here's a build list from a 86 ls swap.

>>17709517
Your dog looks really hungry :'(

>>17709778
This spreadsheet affirms the silliness of these 10k numbers just for the drivetrain.

I'm doing the FC in OP pic, I'm $1000 under the price in your spreadsheet, just have exhaust left (already have long tubes), and I've got a 5.7 alum block and a T56. And I haven't included selling anything in my numbers.

Most $10000+ "build threads" you see are going to include a whole variety of suspension, body, interior crap, stuff that you'd likely end up doing on your turbo 13b build anyways. Drivetrain-to-drivetrain, $10000 is going to get you a whole lot more with a piston engine, but it really shines at a lower price point.

Biggest mistake people make is buying a truck engine, got a whole wrecked Camaro for $3000. $1100 for a 4.8 is insane. I bought a long block 4.8 for $300.

For the $5500 in that spreadsheet, especially with fewer silly purchases like that "Controller Kit", you are going toget way more than a $5500 rotary build will get you.

>>17709856
Yeah that guy made some really bad choices. You can do it for cheap or go all out which is nice.

>>17709517
That is the weirdest looking chicken I even done saw.

>>17709874
Lol Eurofags, that is what a chicken looks like in the Land of the Free

>>17709866
The only real limiting factor to cheap is the transmission. T56's are all getting pretty old, prices are always climbing, rebuilds are pricy.

You can get a T56 Magnum for $3050k to your door, but Tremec fucked up not offering one with the same ratios as a stock F-body, and the shifter is 4 inches forward of the old T56,

You could always just get an auto... but that's boring unless you've got a serious turbo setup

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>>17709517

You did exactly what I am planning to do in a couple of months, weebs are going to get so fucking mad. Way to go dude, cheering for you.

>>17709909
The angriest weebs I have ever seen were commenting on a turbo LS FC3S with an RE-Amemiya body kit.

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>>17709926
Being illegal was never a worry of mine

>>17709930
Nothing healthier in this life than weeb tears.

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>>17709930
>>17709944
>>17709909

Found it

>>17709930
What would happen if you proposed or did a cummins 4bt swap in one of those?

>>17709947
Its more or less been done before

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQlg4pwO23c

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>>17709946

Kek, beautiful. Do you have a link for the video?

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>>17709517
What breed of dog is that? I love him!
Here's my doggo in a car

>>17709959
You probably shouldn't be trying this kind of thing if you don't "know your shit"

That guy spent a lot of money on some questionable things, like nearly $2000 on a truck motor, and over $1000 putting car intake/pan on that truck motor.

$10000 on just the swap should most definitely include PS and AC... Or are you planning on paying SuperLube to do this for you?

>>17709971
No idea! She's a true friend though.

>>17709965
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNtPc1I88Rg&t=28s

Car sold on Norotors a while back

>>17709982
Ah sorry it's a she. Dogs do make the best kind of friends.

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>>17709909
>>17709944

Now is is my moment to shine.

>>17709992
No, theyre not. They're $3000 if you want to buy them online, freight shipped to your house. And if you can't wire up a swap, you likely shouldn't be doing one.

You can still find wrecked FBodies and GTOs if you are trying to stay inside some kind of budget.

>>17710001
Is that what I think it is?

>>17709856
>Controller Kit"
Is that an ecu?

>>17709992
I'm not even claiming rotaries are unreliable.

Rotaries making LS-tier power are unreliable. You're going to have just as many gremlins with your turbo rotary build as you would with a V8 swap, both require plenty of sorting out.

If you can figure out a turbo rotary, you can figure out a working v8 swap. Most people dogmatically saying that either is superior have not, and likely will not, do either.

>>17710015
He paid $1100 for an ECU, two O2 sensors, and wiring harness. Not crazy money for new, but if you're trying to save some cash they're available used for much cheaper.

>>17710014
It is indeed...
...a Ford 302.

You can buy the whole car and tow it home. That's what I did.

>>17710040
We're clearly talking about non-stock rotaries, and non-stock LS motors.

No one is going to go through the trouble of an LS swap and not at least throw a cam in it.

>>17710058
You can rent a truck from the UHaul, and a car trailer. Costs about $150. Talking from experience here. Where the heck do you live?

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Love doggos

>>17710086
Nice SVX, nicer dog.

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>>17710073
Bruh. Why do you think it's so extensively used in amateur and pro motorsports? Lay off the lemans and Vidyas and watch or read some builds.

>>17710090
That build includes the man selling off his original engine and trans for OVER $3000, so looking at about $8500. I'm in mine a $3000 camaro and around $2000 in parts etc. I'll leave the addition and subtraction to you.

>>17710115
I'm with this guy. Cam can get you nearly 100 flywheel on a stock 5.7, with an intake and good well over that.

>>17710001
Post whole car or GTFO

>>17710144
>http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/engines-drivetrain/1409-how-to-add-100-rwhp-with-a-trick-flow-top-end-kit/

It's a lot harder to add 100hp to a 400hp LS3 than it is to a truck engine or 3rd gen Ls1.

Beaters, fine. NA 13bs are pretty weak. Anything half decent and turbo should be keeping the 13B. More interesting and period correct. They are becoming classics.

Do it to an FR-S, mannnnn

It's a better chassis anwyay.

>>17710144
I mean... the car has a manual rack, but a turn 1 PS pump is $300 and connects to the stock lines.

AC just needs lines made. You can buy a crimper and do it yourself or get them made for a few hundred dollars. AC compressors don't really discriminate between dryers/condensers/evaps.

This isn't rocket science.

Also lol to "mere turbo upgrade," please show me this 400whp cheap 'n' easy turbo rotary build you did for $5000. The turbo II FC had 180hp.

>>17710168
Yea, few people ditch a running turbo II. Most of the turbo cars that end up piston just had owners who gave up on a motor with a bad housing, water jacket, that kind of thing.

>>17710188
No, its an engine making about 12 more HP per liter. You know... like 20%?

And as any Civic with a few simple mods owner will tell you, each additionally hp/liter comes at a bigger price. A little problem called volumetric efficiency.

>>17710205
Why are you looking at stock numbers? The whole point of a LS swap is to get a cheap block and rebuild it up to 400+hp and have it be reliable and last to the end of time.

If you want to go big power or boost in the future an iron block is the best. You can strap a ebay turbo onto it and be making stupid power. Yeah it's an extra 100lbs but you'll never get that much power reliable from a rotary.

>>17710205
These are not stock comparisons. We are comparing not stock LS motors with non stock rotary engine. Simple concept. Think of it like comparing a $6k rotary build to $5k swap with $1k in upgrade parts.

325 crank... parasitic losses with a manual trans are like 10% or so.

Here you go...
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/28925-stock-98-00-ls1-f-body-dyno-s.html

>>17710205
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOqwooshRxA

>>17710224
Exactly.

>>17710241
>literally
>heads
who said heads?
>fastest are faster than the fastest
>even with extra hp, slower
>fuel, port, boost
no ecu, no engine rebuild, no tune, nothing
>example of silly cheapness of LS platform
>hurrrrrrr how fast does it go hurr
its a damn truck, made as a proof-of-concept, clearly not a serious drag build

>>17710241
>>17710262
Also I officially concede. All you need is a 13b, a weekend, a buddy, a big ol' ebay turbo, a Harbor Freight dremel for the bridgeport, and you're gonna run 6 second 1/4s the following weekend.

>>17710241
20% more is
>literally nothing

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>>17710134
Sorry for the delay.

Got the ford cheap from my friend. He wanted to go faster so he ditched the 302 and swapped in an [spoiler]LS1[/spoiler].

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>>17710280

That's like, 20% cooler.

>>17710286
IS THAT A DATSOOOOOOOON????

>>17710286
HAHAHA! MY FUCKING HERO!
SLAYER OF THE WEEBS

>>17710281
>literally anyone that wants to actually make 400whp out of an LS1???

You need to get out more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTTgH_ELaiI

>only run said boost pressures for just one dyno run and then go back to 10psi

Probably because anything over 500whp is borderline dangerous on the streets, Especially in a truck that comes stock with 200whp. ZOMG1200HPSOOPRA and "400hp rotary" guys don't run full boost on the streets either.

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>>17710336
my nigga

>>17709878
Uh anon? You're not supposed to eat dogs

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>>17710374
behold the 350 510

>>17710024
26B made 700hp and ran for 24 hours straight

>>17710369
There's a million video's and dyno charts just like it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ze-dTE3xPjA

Shit people were pulling off those numbers in the 70's.

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>>17710115
why is she sticking the cam into the engine doesn't she know cams go on top of the heads

inb4 >women

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>>17710374

Admit it, you got rekt in this thread. Kek.

>>17710400
things an ls has never done

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>>17710444
LS trophy trucks run for 24 hours and 1000 miles in desert conditions. V8 pushrod boat engines will run at full rpm all day long until your wallet dries up.

>>17710400
Lol a four rotor, cheap and easy build

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>>17709517
Only the mutts

>>17710488

Yeah, but those 5k are actually cheaper if you count in for the reliability of future potential hp gains.

>>17710488
>all magazine articles show that you need to port and polish heads, get new valvespings and better exhaust

Which is part of the rebuilding process... That's like $500 in parts from JEGS.

>>17710505
Valve springs, exhaust and a cam are though... Ugh why are you even here?

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>>17710503

You should just admit LS engines are pretty good, kiddo.

>>17710514
Nah T56 trans, no one makes an adapter for the 13b's trans, and you wouldn't want it, bad ratios for V8 and weak.

It just happens to be that a C4 corvette auto driveshaft is the perfect length, but am using a slip yoke for a T56 and a flange yoke for the turbo diff.

Rear end is using the Turbo II diff, but am going with the 8.8 kit made by Ronin Speedworks if I have the car long enough. The turbo diff is good for NA LS power, as long as you aren't launching on slicks. I have a pinion brace and all solid diff/subframe mounts. The 8.8 is the way to go, can pick your gear ratio, with the stock turbo rear end you're stuck with a 4.1

>>17710579
Not a flange yoke. Pinion flange. My bad.

>>17710503
Unstable mounts? You understand there's a whole cottage industry built around engine swaps right? Beefy, well-designed mounts, poly bushes, all made for people making big power?

Oh wait, no you don't. You probably don't even know how many cylinders the bus you ride to community college even has...

>>17710658
Yes 8.8, but not a live rear axle.

8.8 IRS out of an explorer. Similar to a Cobra mustang. You can get LSDs, spools, pick your ratio. And its much beefier than the FC diff.

The stock turbo II FC diff is already a limited slip, either a clutch-type (S4 FCs) or a viscous (S5). That's what I've got.

http://www.roninspeedworks.net/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=104

These guys also make mounts.

Can't really make blanket statements about homemade mounts, some people make crap, some don't, depends entirely on whose home we are talking about.

>>17709517
no. dogs are shit. i like snakes tho

>>17709971
my mom has a dog like that. i consider poisoning his food every time I see him.

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>>17710961
>tfw BP died cause it wouldn't eat
dumb fucking pets. precious, though.

>>17710987
sorry about that senpai

>>17710967
Funky

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>>17710967

>>17709517
Cool looking hound mate.

>>17709971
I have the same rooflining, good 70s feel to it.

>>17709934
Out of curiosity, how the fuck do cops normally catch people with illegal shit under the hood if at all?

>All these delete posts


Holy shit, weebs were truly at full force. They cannot deny their butt-hurtery now.

>>17711441

Here in Spain, it is very unlikely that a cop would catch you and report you for having a modded car, unless you are literally bursting flames out of the exhaust, which I believe it's illegal (or a very loud exhaust).

The way they find out who is modding their vehicles, is by a legally required inspection you must pass. Cars less than 4 years old are extent of the inspection, anything other than 4 will require an inspection every 2 years and more than 10, every 1 year.

The thing is, no one likes retarded legislation about you can't or can do to your ride, so many inspectors will turn a blind eye for many of the silly rules, specially if you know the inspector yourself. Any changes to the car that are truly significant (like an engine swap) will require you to pay up to 500€ for and engineer to approve of the project.

>>17713247
Yea, odd. You'd think they'd just go all in

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>>17713247
>>17714210
>implying anyone deleted any post

pushrod cucks got asshurt and begged the most to get rid of the evil weeb billies

>>17714438

Shows your interest in the topic anyhow.