>1200 pound lithium ion battery >dies after a few years

>>17701013
Because they are too stupid to realize batteries don't last the life of a car.

because muh tesla

>dies after a few years
no

>>17701021
>hurr durr tesla's batteries r best they last 4 ever
found the muskfaggot

Sorry shit for brains, depending on conditions and depth of discharge, they can be nearly useless in as little as a couple of years, at most they'll last a decade. The greater your depth of discharge and the hotter the battery gets the shorter its life will be, so basically if you do anything more than drive the car for short jaunts you're killing the battery. Take your Tesla on a few road trips or have a long commute? You're going to be replacing your battery long before some boring fuck who lives right by his job and never goes anywhere else.

>>17701034
t. Drumpf intellectual oilhead

>>17701066
>so stupid that he thinks anyone who doesn't worship at the altar of musk is an American and a Trump supporter
>using "Drumpf"
Fuck off back to reddit's hillary supporter board or whatever shithole you crawled out of

>>17701066
>liberals are this retarded
Not surprised in the least

>>17701013
>dies after a few years
8 year infinite mile warranty

>>17701034
By your own made up scenario, guy A has to replace his battery after about 12-15 years and guy B replaces his after 17-19 years.

ALMOST AS IF THEY LAST AS LONG AS THE LIFETIME OF THE CAR

>>17701076
The warranty makes lithium mining and recycling environmentally friendly?

>>17701084
>By your own made up scenario, guy A has to replace his battery after about 12-15 years and guy B replaces his after 17-19 years.
You're making up numbers and ascribing them to me lol
neck yerself kiddo

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>>17701021
1/4 of the capacity after 1200 cycles, so about 4 years.

>>17701076
you can kill it in 2 years by overheating it and supercharging it

Batteryfags are actually tesla shills trying to make the opposition look dumb

The actual problem with teslas and the environment is that they are new cars and carry the carbon footprint, the smog footprint, and the destructive mining footprint of any other new car.

If you want to be environmentally friendly...

Drive used.
Drive less or not at all.

Remember, thousands of cars are scrapped and made into toasters because "environmentalist" liberals would rather pay toyota to build a new prius so they can use 5 fewer gallons of gas a month.

cuz LOLOIL

>>17701095
Or in 2 days by actually using the "fastest volume production car to 60mph in a straight line" part.

>>17701076
Read the warranty, it only covers catastrophic failures of he battery pack or the loss of 70% of the capacity.

>>17701106
In what way is a dead battery not "70% loss of capacity"?

>drive hard
>deeply discharge before recharging and fast charge regularly
>battery killed in a few years
It's almost like you people haven't been using smartphones for several years. Anyone who has had a couple of smart phones sees the effects of a hard life on a lithium battery
>new iphone battery lasts all day when you use it normally
>a year later it's dying just after lunch with the same usage

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>>17701089
I love how it goes asymptomatic to shit. So it doesn't completely die. It just hangs out in shit land for another 8 years reminding you about your bad life choices.

Asymtotic

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STAND BACK I HAVE FACTS

https://www.teslacentral.com/worried-about-tesla-battery-degradation-its-23-miles-every-100000-driven

>>17701111
The Tesla way.

>>17701085
Lmfao you roasted that idiot

>>17701125
That site seems independent and unbiased.

>>17701112
Iv been using the same smart phone for 4 years now. It still lasts me through en entire day. About every 4 months I will notice that it starts dying during the day and I will just run some cleaner software on it and then it goes right back to what its always been.

The real problem is people treating their phones like trash.

>>17701125
>https://www.teslacentral.com/worried-about-tesla-battery-degradation-its-23-miles-every-100000-driven
>Worried about Tesla battery degradation? It's 23 miles per every 100,000 driven
Holy fuck Teslafags are dumb as all hell. Battery degradation is HEAVILY related to dicharge cycle depth and charging speed. You CANNOT make a statement like "23 miles per every 100,000 driven" because that's assuming batteries degrade at a linear and constant rate irrespective of environment and usage.

>>17701085
I don't really care if its eco friendly or not, Its simply the best car on the market.

>>17701135
>Iv been using the same smart phone for 4 years now. It still lasts me through en entire day.
So you don't run your battery down and charge once it's nearly dead? Brilliant, who could've guessed that batteries last longer when you treat them well?

>>17701137
Yeah dont people understand that people only change habits AFTER driving a new car 100,000 miles????

>>17701142
I plug it in to charge every night and never at any other time.

>>17701133
>facts have a bias
Talking like a trump supporter

>>17701085
Yes, lithium mining is environmentally friendly.

Especially compared to the other things that go into a new tesla car

>Copper mining
>Oil sands
>Strip mining for iron, aluminum
>Forging
>Refining
>Shipping and trucking (lithium is only significant here since it all comes from south america)

First of all, Tesla will not even allow you to charge or discharge the battery in a capacity which would be harmful to the long term health. You literally can't drain them and you can't overcharge them. These lithium-ions have a sweet spot of efficiency and can be used for at least 6-8 years if they are used in that range (typically around 20% - 85% of charge). Second of all, they will without a doubt lose efficiency year after year. But it may be negligible. I would be more concerned about the effects of a cold winter discharging the batteries or extreme heat - both which will fuck with the lifespan of the cells.

>>17701164
I would be more concerned with having the range of a gas-hungry sportbike but without the 30-second refuelling time

Americans actually do these things called road trips because planes are an expensive PITA

>>17701013

because you can recycle the batteries

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>>17701172
Why does everyone ignore pic related?

>>17701181
So the worse your state and city of resdience is for your economic well being and mental health, the easier it is to charge your shitbox. But if you live somewhere nice, you have to take a detour through a shithole like fucking spokane. Great.

>>17701034
They are warrantied for 8 year unlimited mileage :^)

>>17701152
Facts unlike you, or that website don't have bias, the facts are Tesla owners are reporting a 20% drop in range after one year, traveling any distance in a Model S in the USA has a higher GWP than doing so in an S Class Merc or BMW 7 Series.

>>17701187
This isn't for everyday charging, its for road trips.

Stop moving goalposts around.

You charge in your garage.

>>17701189
See >>17701106 for what that actually covers.

>>17701192
Road trips that have unecessary detours if you have an EV, especially for ones that don't involve california or the shittastic east coast. A lot of the good parts of montana, oregon, and idaho are particularly inaccessible there.

>inb4 every road trip is a meme trip to see the grand canyon and go to walley world
Most road trips are to visit relatives in the middle of nowhere, go camping/fishing/hunting, etc.

Just charging a Tesla's battery isn't environmentally friendly. That power needs to come off the grid and the grid is still mostly fed by fossil fuels. When Tesla owners plug in to charge they place a higher demand on the grid which requires more fuel burned. Charging a Tesla would only be green if the grid mostly consisted of renewable sources and or nuclear.

Not saying we shouldn't push for this future but to claim the car is completely green right now is wrong. It's a bit deceptive.

>>17701187

kids, this post is an example of grasping at straws

something tells me you just don't like the idea of electric cars from a subjective viewpoint, and now you're looking to bash them as much as possible to spread the hate. when from an objective viewpoint, they're superior to gasoline cars in almost every way.

>no fuel leaks
>the nature of their design leads to a very low center of gravity
>their power is available from 0-100mph, where a person needs power for the commute
>a charge will last roughly a week, and a full recharge can be done overnight
>no anxiety over anything ICE related. fuel pumps, transmissions, valvetrain, etc.

And addressing the range issue for people who road trip...obviously they're not the target market.

>>17701204
>inaccessible
See the white zone on the map? You can see the edges of it in canada. Thats zone of places you can go only using superchagers.

Stop making up facts.

>>17701207

So we change where we get our power from. Problem solved.

>>17701207
It's greener because the massive generators used for the grid have far better efficiency than the gasoline engines.

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>>17701208
>fuel leaks
>anxiety over anything ICE related. fuel pumps, transmissions, valvetrain, etc.
stop buying vehicles made by white people.

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>>17701214

those are the best ones

>All this memeing and hydrogen is still better

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>>17701208
>>no fuel leaks
Just like a gt86 then
>>the nature of their design leads to a very low center of gravity
Just like a gt86 then
>>their power is available from 0-100mph, where a person needs power for the commute
Just like a gt86 then
>>a charge will last roughly a week, and a full recharge can be done overnight
Well a full tank in a GT86 will last longer and can be refilled in a lot less time
>>no anxiety over anything ICE related. fuel pumps, transmissions, valvetrain, etc.
But plenty on electric motors, batteries, controllers etc.

I'd just save a fortune and the planet and buy an 86 then.

>>17701217
>it's not unreliable and dangerous, it has character

Lmaoing @ your pale skin

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>>17701181
Those are made for "road trips"

>>17701211
Easier said than done. There's always major political pushback when you mention green energy. Fossil fuels made a lot of people rich, a lot of people with a great deal of political connections and lobbying power, and they aren't going to give it up without a fight.

>>17701229
They also aren't going to spend their riches on upgrading the power grid because you want to use the same thing we use for "essential luxuries" like lighting, hot running water, refridgeration, etc for an inessential luxury like being too much of a stuck up faggot to take the bus or something.

>>17701015
You buy a new car after 3 or 4 years anyway so it's fine

>>17701241
Alright, nobody is ask them to spend money. But they fight any new startups and investors and run them out of business to preserve their own industries or lobby politicians to create legislation to ensure green energy can't even get off the ground at all. How is that fair?

>>17701229

THEN WE STOP BEING LAZY PUSSIES AND DEMAND THAT COMPANIES CHANGE WHERE WE GET OUR POWER

>>17701246
Green energy seeks to replace, not supplement

The same people lobby to close dams because MUH PRETTY FISHES

>>17701228
lmfao i never even thought about that.

i work in silicon valley and see so many of those electric shitboxes everywhere. the carpool lane isnt even carpool anymore because there are so many hybrids and evs around. figures the handful of charging stations are overcrowded as fuck.

at least the big tech companies have charging stations in the parking lots sometimes.

i even saw "clean air vehicle parking" at a chik fil a. fucking disgusting

>>17701251
HOW? Go on a power strike and stop paying our bills? March into their offices with a gun and demand they abandon fossil fuels?

We've been trying to demand they change it and we are ignored all the time. Is there any method that isn't extreme or illegal that will get people to listen?

>>17701270

um stop voting for politicians that write legislation to empower those companies

that's literally the power of democracy

>>17701270
Yeah

Not caring because siberia will be a tropical paradise and nigger countries plus the american south will become uninhabitable if we continue on our current course

>>17701251
We actually don't need to do anything. Profit is still the bottom line and green energy is getting cheaper and cheaper. Right now about 30% of power comes from green sources and that number will keep going up as the technology gets better.

Just take a look at what a solar cell cost from 5 years ago vs today.

>>17701222
>>>their power is available from 0-100mph, where a person needs power for the commute
>Just like a gt86 then
Lmao @ dat torque curve, doesn't even compare.
I do agree though, electric cars are not there yet.

>>17701278
Only for a little while. Eventually the oceans boil off and the runaway greenhouse effect causes Earth to become a barren hellscape like Venus. Shame humanity ends there.

>>17701089
>300 miles range * 1200 full battery cycles = 360000 miles battery life
doesn't look too bad to me, anon

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>>17701283
>Lmao @ dat torque curve, doesn't even compare.
You are right, the Tesla's torque curve drops off almost instantly.

>>17701085
comparing designated area pollution to city wide toxic gas releases

>>17701315
On top of that it's probably a full charge/discharge cycle, so I bet it will last more than that. Anyways, I hear so often about how they *could* go bad, but rarely see any real world data. Just lab experiments.

>>17701125
You are the kind of trumptard that posts a link to a Texico site with "facts" showing burning oil doesn't cause climate change aren't you.

>>17701334
I think partial discharge/recharge cycles worked the best with batteries. Although, another factor is ambient temperature.

>>17701222
I don't think someone who's looking at an FRS will consider a heavy luxury car that's meant for A-B than performance, or a Model S customer would be looking for a track rat.

>>17701208
>their power is available from 0-100mph, where a person needs power for the commute
>needs the power
I drive a 75hp econobox from 2001, literally have never had a problem with getting up to speed

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>>17701525
Nigga you for real? Everyone else has a problem with your 20s 0-60 time. Just pull over when you get on an on ramp plox.

>>17701549

most people are slow and drive slow cars slowly buddy

>>17701560
You only think that because the slow cars you hang out with are the only cars you see, those cars that keep passing your ass are seeing all the fast cars.

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>>17701013
recycling.

which greatly reduces the energy needed to make a new pack.

>no one ever considers the secondary and tertiary environmental impacts of oil.

>>17701585
Sounds like you're projecting.

>>17701598
Yep. Batteries are basically lithium/cobalt/copper rich ore. Super easy to recycle

>>17701585

No, most normies simply do not drive performance variations of cars you fucking spastic.

>>17701141

>teslafag is triggered by the facts

>>17701549
>pull up to onramp in much tesla
>laugh at all the plebs driving normal cars
>accelerate 0-60 in 3 seconds cause muh important daily metric
>crash into the car in front of me

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>>17701013
Idk. Everyone on /o/ claims to drive eleventeen brazillion miles on daily commute, so the Tesla is clearly kill.

Most people that I know with electric cars are charging their shitbox for an entire night then another 8 hours at work just to make the commute to work then back home. That's anecdotal evidence so w.e

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>>17701228

It happened in midwest as well.

Superchargers are usless now cuz of too many teslafags.

>>17701013
We should just put inductive charging coils under all the roads already.

>>17701942
You're literally making my wallet hurt

>>17701919
Yeah. it's not like we have data from five year old teslas to look at... And that's five year old battery tech too.

>>17701013

>Buying a car that only lasts 8 years

Shit, like Trump's presidency!

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>>17701013
>dies after a few years
>much more expensive to buy
>Probably more expensive to maintain

More cheap to buy and maintain for us = less money for car companies and no way they will allow this.
There is a catch.

>>17702167
>meme
>it gets offset by cheap electricity in the long run
>false

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>>17701598
>NOT INCIDENTALLY CREATING AN APOCALYPTIC OIL FIELD FIRE HELLSCAPE SO YOU CAN FLY UNCHALLENGED IN FORMATION THROUGH IT AFTER ACHIEVING TOTAL AIR SUPERIORITY OF A HIGHLY MILITARIZED COUNTRY LOCATED 6,000 MILES AWAY FROM AMERICA IN UNDER 48 HOURS
FAGGOTS GO AND STAY GO

>USAF_F-16A_F-15C_F-15E_Desert_Storm_edit2[1].jpg
ALSO "DESERT STORM" IS AN AMAZING NAME FOR A MILITARY OPERATION, ITS IN KEEPING WITH AWESOME SHIT LIKE BLITZKRIEG LIGHTNING WAR

>>17701598
>>17701607
When you imagine a battery recycling facility do you picture a clean white building with a bunch of glass windows and a shiny tesla sign out front? Is the building sucking up dirty air and less desirably colored humans to make pretty new teslas driven by hot white ladies that fart sparkles if they even fart at all?

The only environmental benefit to recycling those materials is that you don't need to mine them up again and usually don't have to ship them as far. Processing a lithium battery creates a shit ton of waste from dissolving the lithium and separating it from the other battery material that has infiltrated. You end up with a slurry of highly toxic gases, fluids and solids that are of no use in any industrial process and are difficult to contain. Fluoride makes a hell of an acid and isn't only good for hardening teeth.

>no one ever considers the secondary and tertiary environmental impacts of oil.

LOL come on guy, we invaded Afghanistan for trillion$ in lithium stop pretending that oil is the only valuable thing tainted by the blood of thousands, it makes us all think you are some summerfriend

>>17701013
Liberalism quite literally is a mental illness. They can't comprehend that it harms the enviorment more to make and destroy those cars than regular ones.

>>17702189
>us
>getting any resources of of the afghan occupation

pick one. China is the only one operating mines in Afghanistan. Just like Iraq. The US spent the blood and treasure, and China reaps the benefit in valuable commodities.

US mines their own lithium or gets it from latin america.

>>17702191
don't confuse modern left wing politics with Liberalism.

western left parties are Insogc tier.

>>17702157
Stop it, there is no new battery tech. The only new battery tech is lithium ion, and I guess graphene super capacitors but those don't really work practically yet, cool though. The innovation that tesla brings to electric car batteries is a production facility and supply chain designed with a giant fucking lithium battery as its sole goal. Its basic economy of scale to reduce the cost of the battery and has in no way improved the ability of lithium ions to hold or release their electrical potential. Smart charging controls are what made lithium viable in the 2000's for power tools and eventually cell phones since they have a tendency to suffer more from bad charging than older lead acids and before then people tended to kill the super pricey battery packs.

The tesla is a neat car and I would love to cruise around like a new money californigger for however many hours it let me before I would have to call it a day, returning to my home where another rolling blackout hits the cul de sac because me and my neighbor both charge our teslas when we get home and peak power usage is at the same time thus overtaxing our shitty infrastructure.

You can like tesla, hell you can love tesla, but fuck off with all the bullshit about how elon musk makes physical reality change just for his special friends.

>>17702248
battery density is continually improving. 2170s are rolling out.

>overtaxing infrastructure
lmao I hope you don't believe the articles that say how the UK would need 20 more nuclear power plants if 80% of the pop had EVs

think for yourself for once

>>17702234
China opened 3 oil fields in 2010 in afghanistan and since then has shut one down. They have applied as of 2016 to open 2 lithium mines and a gem mine but that is contingent on their railroad project being successful, that began in 2010 when the oil fields opened and is currently years behind schedule. Conversely there are nearly 50 other mines operating in the country which are mostly owned by british holding companies with the remaining being the US and Canada. The US gets its lithium from south america because its closer and mining material is heavy not because we have no mining concerns in the middle east. Its an easy enough mistake to make though since there is no "America Mining Company" owned by the US gov to represent our mining concerns like china has, but make no mistake when Britain, Canada or some company based in the US gets ahold of a resource its basically the same as the US gov getting it, we just tax the company instead of actually building our own mine.

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Serious question here, instead of electric cars, why not hydrogen fuel cell technology? I'm pretty ignorant on exactly how it works but it seems like a lot less hassle than electric cars. Water is much easier to acquire than electricity and could cost the same, if not, cheaper than electricity.

>>17702260
http://pubs.rsc.org/en/Content/ArticleLanding/2011/EE/c0ee00777c#!divAbstract
Battery density does improve but you will find that the 4-8% a year figure is misleading. That is an average figure that includes new battery materials and technology. When they started making li-on batteries it didn't make all the old ni-cads work better, the new material just holds more and thus a huge increase for battery capacity is claimed even though it was a new material and not an actual improvement to the technology. This is true of nearly all gains that battery storage has made, someone finds a material that weighs less or has a higher orbit distortion and that is the way the tech improves. Occasionally someone will figure out to make multi cells or liquid cells or the smart chargers to improve the basic function of the battery but no amount of sciencing at it has ever dramatically improved the amount of power a material can hold.

>the UK would need 20 more nuclear power plants

You clearly saw this on facebook on your way over here but didn't read the article, or even worse you did read it and now have FAKENEWS in your head.
The total amount of power is not the main issue though obviously you are talking about turning every car motor(a small gas generator) into a battery pack(a storage device for power) thus you would need additional energy production since all that power to move the cars has to come from somewhere, even teslas batteries don't generate their own power.
The infrastructure I am referring to is the hundreds of thousands of miles of power lines, millions of transformers, thousands of relay and control stations and other bullshit that gets electricity where it needs to go in the proper phase and volume. None of those are equipped to deal with the huge increase of volume that loads of electric cars bring. Peak charge time is at 6-8pm which is also peak usage time for electricity in all the US, coincidentally it is also the time when solar power drops off

>>17702454
Since its also known that feeding decentralized solar into the grid is damaging to it due to the fluctuating power it provides this is actually a small boon as you aren't shitting the grid 3 different ways, just 2.

The electrical distribution networks of the first world are not equipped to handle electric cars, decentralized solar or even in some places normal use of AC in the summertime. The needed overhaul is too intimidating for anyone to approach however so I guess its easier to just post a story about "8 ZILLION DOLLAR NUCLEAR PLANT POISONS LOCAL BOY, KICKS DOG"

as a personal aside it sounds like you don't like nuclear power and that saddens me as england could do far worse than becoming a literal powerhouse with the worlds most advanced, clean, renewable and safe form of energy

>>17702357
Because you still have the problem of converting potential energy into mechanical energy inside a tiny mobile machine. Factories should produce energy because they can do it will losses of around 9% and not 70%+ like current ICE cars.

>>17702357
incredibly inefficient. you would waste most of the energy involved in the process of making hydrogen, transporting and storage, and then moving the car foward.

>>17702454
what kind of idiot would charge in the evening, instead of super off peak hours 11pm-7am?

>>17701013
Here is a better point, most countries in the world already consume 100% of the electricity they produce and have to import electricity from other countries and most of that electricity is coming from coal power stations.

Why do elctro fags never acknowledge that and instead act like their car is powered by wind turbines and solar panels?

>>17703382
because it is still far less CO2 per mile compared to ICE.

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>>17701013
>environmentally friendly

who cares

>>17703382
all my electricity comes from nuclear

>>17703404
No it doesn't hardly any energy comes from nuclear unless you are french or communist.

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>>17703420
yes it does, I live 20 miles from the nuclear power plant and about 120 miles from the second plant

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>>17701066
>drumpf

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>>17701013
So you mean once my model 3 hits around 300,000 miles, I'll just have to have a battery swap -- of which will be much cheaper due to the advancements in battery tech by then -- and can run it for another 300,000 miles afterwards?

GAS KEKS BTFO

Tesla tech here, judging from 1.5 Roadsters (the oldest packs in the fleet, 2009 manufacture) the packs lose at most 1% a year with regular use after the initial degradation that will happen when the pack is brand new. The main thing that would cause accelerated degradation is cell imbalances (which would start to cause excessive heat in certain bricks), but that's constantly measured by the BMS and if there's even a tiny imbalance the car will throw an alert and the pack will be remanned under warranty.

>>17701089
Those are cells being charged to 4.2v and discharged to 3.2v. I won't give exact numbers because NDA but the difference in a Model S/X pack at 90% charge and 10% charge is about .1 volt. Apples and oranges.


What people don't seem to understand is the extreme narrow range in temp, discharge/charge current across all cells, and soc limits on the Tesla packs. Citing some study on phone or RC car batteries is not relevant.

>you're just shilling!
Believe me, the last thing I want is the kind of know it all dipshits in this thread to buy a Tesla.

>the environment!
Don't buy ANY car, especially new car, if you give a shit about the environment, ride a bicycle.

>>17704087
>Tesla tech here
What do you think of the model 3? Will it be a huge success? Anything to be worried about?

>>17703995
tesla is going to double the world's li-ion battery production. this will bring down pack costs. then your old pack's recycling value will be credited towards the purchase of a new pack.

Nissan is already having headaches because LEAF owners want to buy new packs instead of new cars. Which is throwing off the normal sales model.

>>17704087
>judging from 1.5 Roadsters (the oldest packs in the fleet, 2009 manufacture)
yeah the ones that boomers in scv drive once a month

>>17704115
>What do you think of the model 3?
Cool little car, much faster/better handling than you would expect.
>Will it be a huge success?
Yes.
>Anything to be worried about?
Of course, it's a massive gamble by the company that's completely changing everything from top to bottom, but so was the S and that worked out well so the 3 isn't keeping me up at night or anything.

>>17703995
If you really cared about saving money, you would buy a cheap, 10k ish car that does 40 mpg....

>>17704087
Why do you feel the need to lie on the internet?

>>17704156
>fast forward six years
>if you cared about money you'd buy a cheap, 7k used EV that gets 210 miles on a charge

not saying you're wrong, but the used car meta is rapidly changing. Used EVs are sweet deals right now, and it will only get better as more are sold. The "8k used leaf" is already a meme of sorts.

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>>17704156
Tesla is best bang for the buck still. Less moving parts = no maintenance repair costs + saving ~$2k/year on gas from the charging I've calculated, so let's say after 5 years, with no what, $7.5k repair costs in that time?, I've already saved half the value of a car. Half the value of a car better than a Mercedes C class and BMW 3 series (i330 as well before you say).

The regenerative braking means the brakes last *significantly* longer than regular cars' brakes. Like 20 times. Only maintenance/repair needed for the most part will be the 18" tires I'm getting and windshield wiper fluid.

Tesla is the ubermensch Trump voter's car of choice and will completely revolutionize the game.

>>17704156
>>17704215
That's not factoring in the either $7.5k or $3.75k tax credit I'll get (depending on the 3 month period they've estimated for my wait time since I reserved late), which is gonna save a lot off of my withholding next year

Buy model 3's bro, I'm pretty pumped

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>>17704215
don't forget tesla checkups cost $$$. Still less overall than most ICE cars though

>>17701331
What is, wind?

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>>17701066
>>17701152
>>17701364

>>17704156
>saving money
>spending ten thousand united states dollars ($10,000)

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>>17701137
> Holy fuck ICEcucks are dumb as all hell. Engine degradation is HEAVILY related to rpm and oil change intervals. You CANNOT make a statement like "this engine will last for 100,000 miles" because that's assuming engines degrade at a linear and constant rate irrespective of dumbass ricers and teenage posers revving the piss out of their shitbox mememobile volvo/miata/civic etc.

fuck off you sandnigger oil shill. How does Alwaleed bin talals cock taste while you typed that out

How much of a flop would an electric pick-up or GP be?
>torque potential
>low center of gravity for tilt stability
>maybe enough power to do draw off of for some crazy suspension stuff along the lines of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KPYIaks1UY

>>17704401
Point proven. It is all about looks.

>>17704228
>$625 for a tire rotation and wiper blade replacement

This truly is the end of ICE

>>17701285
Wtf are you even talking about.

>>17704228
>>17704224
>>17704215
Nice try, Tesla cars.

Tesla affiliated shops are the most expensive car shops around.

A Toyota car will always be cheaper to fix than a a cuck car like Tesla.

>>17701245
Most cars on the road are a little less than 10years old.

>30000€
>Not buying 10 3000€ used shitboxes driving each one until it brakes

>>17704597
Where do you get the 30k from?

Tbh if its cheap to maintain, has simple and easy to understand/fix. Im totally down to have a green car.
Oh i would have to be able to luve with it in -30/40°C winter weather
>is this possible?

>>17701013
£1200 isn't much for all the money it saves me

looks pretty damn cheap inside

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>>17704560
>buying an ICEr
>ever

The only good ICErs are the ones that send you gascucks back to Mexico, to your unAmerican car factories

>>17701277

I've been doing so for years, but that one vote is useless against oil company paid votes.

>>17703337
>7pm
>get home from wagecucking
>mindlessly plug EV in so that I can cagecuck my way to the office tomorrow
>repeat until my life is mercifully ended by the collapse of the electric grid and civilization

>>17704701
If only there was some way to select your charge times with a button on the touchscreen or using the phone app

>>17704706
most people will not do this unless it's default behavior

>>17704710
Wrong

>>17701933
They should start doing battery swap like the concept introduced in Taiwan.

>>17703387
CO2 is an irrelevant "pollutant"

Stupid Elon. that car is unsellable in Britain. wrong color seatbelt release button.

>>17705033
that video was such a joke
"look this is faster than refuelling"
"let's compare it where a dude who has a card on file drives up, and a tech lines him up and the machine starts working to replace the battery while another dude poorly and slowly drives up to a pump in an A8L with a massive fuel tank and then fumbles his way through the entire process, and the swap was barely faster"

Just what I want to do on a road trip. Stop every couple hundred miles for 6 hours just to charge my memewagon (3 hours to charge, 3 hours waiting for douchebags to charge). This can turn my normal 20 hour trip into a potential 50 hour trip.

Teslas are only good for going to Jimmy John's and attracting assholes.

>>17704701

Coming home drunk and forgetting to plug in.

Panic

why hasn't anyone put an ice engine into teslas body yet just to piss off ev fags?

>>17701245
In my shithole of a country is the other way around by a large margin.

>>17705241
Not just Britain the entire EU, and any other country using harmonised ISO standards. So most of the world.

>>17701013
less smog in the city

>>17701125
14.88

A car like the mitsubishi mirage is more cheap to buy than electric car(like chevrolet bolt ev)
And probably cheaper to maintain and more reliable with maintenance service every 20,000 km.

ICE are still preferred Electric engines.

>>17703382
>Why do elctro fags never acknowledge that and instead act like their car is powered by wind turbines and solar panels?
Why can't ICEfags understand that if you took 1000 ICE cars off the road and used all the gasoline they were going to use and fueled a giant generator with it you could fuel much more than 1000 Tesla's with the same amount of fuel. You don't need solar panels and windmills to realize large gains in energy efficiency. The battery is the biggest con of EVs but the pros of moving to EVs far outweigh the battery issue. You have to look at what you don't need when you have EVs instead of gasoline powerded cars
>Gas stations
>Refining, mining and delivery system to supply gas stations
>Delivery system for EV fuel already exists in every building in the modern world
>No alternator, transmission, timing belt + 100 other things that don't exist on EVs to waste hours trying to take apart just to replace a 10 dollar part
>Deliver exact amount of energy you need while driving instead of wasting expensive gasoline heating your engine compartment
>Recharge your car while stopping

>>17706089
>what is heat waste energy
>what is energy loss in transit
ev fags are fucking retarded

>>17705373
>20 hour drive
Planes do exist you know
The longest road trip I ever took was eight hours
If you need to sleep on a road trip that is usually a sign that you should have taken a plane

>>17706092
>what is heat waste energy
>what is energy loss in transit
Thank you for listing the things that EVs are much better at than than ICEs
Please read a book and leave the internet forever

>>17706098
but they are not
>gasoline does not lose power when being carried across country
>heat is produced when consuming gasoline effectively
>more heat in an explosion the more pressure it creates and uses the fuel more effectively
>meanwhile evs need their electricity transfered over power lines that looses around 65% of power generated
>heat is produced by the batteries and the engines
>impossible to cool quicky or effectively
>means loss in power, battery degradation, and waste energy
you should read a book LGBT fag

>>17706111
>Energy is created with less fuel in a large generator than a small one (car engine)
>Energy can be transported to location of convenience to the electric utility such as a railroad spur and/or highway entrance near a refinery while tankers need to go to where people drive
>EVs use a sealed liquid heating/cooling system to keep cells at the proper temperature

>Power lines lose 65% of power generated
Lol now I know you have fetal alcohol syndrome

>repeat drumpf over and over again
>guy gives up, has brain aneurysm
>haha i won the argument xd

>>17706135
didn't actually answer any of my points tho
does not matter what cooling evs use, it's not enough, teslas go to limp mode after driving a bit fast for an hour or 2 due to heat
>>Energy can be transported to location of convenience to the electric utility such as a railroad spur and/or highway entrance near a refinery while tankers need to go to where people drive
i have no idea what are you trying to say here, if you are saying that electricity can be transported then yes it can with power lines and i said why it's not efficient
>Lol now I know you have fetal alcohol syndrome
it's true tho, from the power plant to an outlet around 65% of energy produced is lost

>>17706160
>it's true tho, from the power plant to an outlet around 65% of energy produced is lost
No you fucking inbred moron, 65% of energy is lost when it is burned and converted to thermal energy at the power plant, transmission losses vary but are usually very low depending on far it has to travel 1% over 100 miles is close to standard depending on the voltage. ICEs lose 80% to thermal loss as a comparison
>i have no idea what are you trying to say here
Fossil fuel power plants don't get their fuel from std infected truck drivers one tankload at a time like gas stations do. They get it from rail cars loaded with coal so they don't incur massive transportation costs or a pipeline if they use natural gas. If they used gasoline they would also do the same which again is far more efficient
Please kill yourself now

>>17706166
how do you think electricity is produced if not by coal power plants, so loses still apply
renewables can't produce enough
ice does not loose energy due to heat you inbred fuck, they lose it because they can't burn all of the fuel, mazda will fix it, and will be able to run on hydrogen cells that are actually 0 emissions, just need to figure a way to mass produce hydrogen fuel cells
>Please kill yourself now
no, remain upset ev cuck

>>17701933
To be a little fair, they said early on electric vehicles need infrastructure to keep up.
Don't know how the whole network stuff works myself, but from the sounds of it, it's all sorts of needless complication. Half of them are fast charging, you need a special card or account to use it, Tesla's supercharger doesn't work with other cars.
Why not just decide on a standard like USB and shit.

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>2017
>People still think Musk do that for the planet
>Americans unironically giving pic related all their dollars each week at the gas station and FELL PROUD ABOUT IT.

Cucks level 100000000, can't wait for you guys to take another 9/11, we yuropoor will laugh so much more than the first time.

>>17706178
Who said anything about renewables?
I merely stated that that using EVs results in energy efficiency gains while using 100% fossil fuels as opposed to using ICEs. Just because you don't like seeing hippies driving battery cars doesn't make everything I said bullshit
>Hydrogen cells
This presents the same problem that the ICE does. Either you need to supply hydrogen separately for the vehicle to burn in an ICE which means transporting hydrogen to a gas station or you need to react hydrogen and oxygen together to power an electric motor inside the vehicle. If you need to power an electric motor than why not take advantage of economies of scale and get it direct from the power plant and have the power plant use fuel cells to make the electricity?

>>17706212
i am gonna stop replying since you bring the same retarded points that was disproven
transporting ice fuels is more efficient than making electricity and then powering the cars
and no using 100% fossil fuels ice comes out on top

i wonder what you will do once tesla declares bankruptcy

>>17706239
>Disproven
Yeah because charging a Tesla full costing a third as much as pumping gas doesn't already prove that EV engines are more efficient
>I'm leaving now because I'm so right
Lol goodbye cletus

>>17706030
I just chose britain because the wheel is on the wrong side

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https://techcrunch.com/2016/12/22/tesla-tops-2016-consumer-reports-customer-satisfaction-survey/
"Consumer Reports’ survey pool covered more than 300,000 different vehicles, and Tesla regained the crown that it held in the previous year, besting Porsche and Audi in the No. 2 and No. 3 spots, respectively."

http://insideevs.com/owning-tesla-year-cost-breakdown/
"After one year, Sullins found that he saved about 30 percent over having an ICE vehicle."

https://electrek.co/2016/09/13/tesla-model-s-value-retention-leading-segment-losing-only-28-after-50k-miles/
“To put the depreciation in context, whereas a Tesla (Model S) will on average lose 28% of its value after being driven 50k miles, a Mercedes S-Class will lose 38%, a BMW 7-series will lose 40%, and an Audi A8 will lose 41%. As a result, Tesla owners end up with considerably more money in their pocket.”

http://www.ucsusa.org/sites/default/files/attach/2015/11/Cleaner-Cars-from-Cradle-to-Grave-full-report.pdf
"Cleaner Cars from Cradle to Grave, How Electric Cars Beat Gasoline Cars on Lifetime Global Warming Emissions"

>>17701114
>asymptomatic

You mean asymptotic you dumb shit

>>17701111
Dunno, with lead acids capacity tends to plummet after they get to around 85%. Battery capacity degradation is not at all linear.

>>17701034
>You're going to be replacing your battery long before some boring fuck who lives right by his job and never goes anywhere else.
Actually, repeatedly charging and discharging a battery only by a small part of its capacity kills it too. The more you know!

>>17701942
>We should waste gigantic amounts of energy and money
No.

>>17705275
It's still much much faster than recharging the whole pack.

>>17706813
It depends on the type of lead acid battery.

>>17706639
we get it, tesla is the imac of cars

>>17704547
That's a German waste bin.

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>>17702260
2170 is just a size of cell, it doesn't actually improve the energy density or longevity of the battery, I thing you deserve this.

>>17706653
>Lefty cucks worshiping Communist Chinese cock like usual.

>>17707649
>Cant find any flaw with Tesla
>LOL its shit like apple ;)

>>17709865
but it is. it's overpriced garbage that survives off design, marketing and a fake green progressive image

How many cell phones, laptops or cordless tools hold a perfect charge after 5 years? Li-ions have been around for a looong time. The effects of high C rate discharging/charging have been known for quite some time. But of course Teslafag think Tesla's use Lithium-unicorn Jizz batteries that defy the laws of chemistry.

>>17701066
get the fuck out

>>17709876
Then why cant any other of the car companies that exists make a single competitive product?

Should be easy if its hot garbage.

>>17709903
I don't blame them after seeing how much debt uncle Elon is in.

>>17709914
So your saying teslas are overpriced but also dragging the company into debt but also no other car company can produce a car at a similar price point?

Want to think that through again?

>>17709933
Yes, They're overpriced. Even while being overpriced he's still losing money on every car. It would be hard for most manufacturers to make enough profit hence why they don't out the effort into it.

>>17701189
So they last 8 years. Not good enough.

>>17709988
>Even while being overpriced he's still losing money on every car
The facts dont support statement: https://seekingalpha.com/article/4075701-tesla-closer-look-margins-profitability

>It would be hard for most manufacturers to make enough profit hence why they don't out the effort into it
Most other manufactures still have a full 200k $7,500 EV credits but still cant produce a car that is competitive. See the Chevy Bolt.

>>17701141
No it's not, it's the worst car on the market and should be either banned or taxed extra to compensate.

>>17710041
Please, I know your not that stupid. Other auto manufactures give warranties of 5~ years and you don't go around thinking the engine explodes the day after year 5.

>>17710067
Prius battery is warranted for 10 years. And you get a real engine thrown in for free.

>>17710080
Does the Prius die the day after year 10?

If the answer is no, then why do you think the Tesla will die the day after its warranty ends?

>>17710097
>>17710080
Gen1 prius packs are still going strong

>>17710048
Bolt is competitive. GM just isn't marketing it and it is sort of awkward looking on the inside

>>17710105
They're not pulling 2000 amps from those packs and charging them at full power.

>>17710120
The Bolt costs $2,495 more than the model 3, yet doesn’t come with fast charging capabilities. DC fast charging is a $750 add-on. Without paying for that, it takes over 9 hours to charge the Bolt from empty to full, and the $750 fast charge option is not even that fast. The Bolt can charge at a speed up to 90 miles per 30 minutes of charging, while the Model 3 charges at a rate of 130 miles in 30 minutes.

Also every Model 3 comes with all the sensors to drive itself on the highway and will one day be able to drive itself anywhere with just an over the air update.

In what way is the Bolt competitive?

>>17710153
most EV customers won't care a bout the autonomy, or the slower fast charging.

the only real bummer for them is that higher base price and the hatchback design.

>>17704177
you should refute his number if he's lying. Otherwise, stfu.

>>17710041
tell me what car lasts for 8 years other than toyota/lexus? lol

>>17710970
Why would anyone buy a car that doesn't last longer than 8 years?

>>17710970
Any car that's well maintained.

>>17712017
Read
>>17710067

>>17712017
because they are tesla fans.

ICE for life

>>17712271
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/we-mean-business/the-death-of-the-internal_b_13533290.html

>>17710970
every car

you know what doesn't last? tires. you know what's hard to get rid of? tires. you know what's environmentally damaging to produce? tires. you know what all cars need? tires.

why the fuck is ICE a problem while tires continue their bloody rampage

>muh CO2
oh wow the easiest pollutant to sequester that is also the least impactful. cow farts are worse. better change engine technologies anyways, that's a brilliant use of R&D
>displaced emissions
s-surely green energy will take over!
>power grid still over capacity
come on green energy, fix that too!
>they can't, we brownouts now

>>17712271
40%+ efficiency ICE is higher efficiency than the power plants generating electricity for the Tesla.

ICE cold baby!

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>>17712285
Over my dead body.

>>17710153
The bolt uses a common standard fast charging port while the Tesla uses gay proprietary shit.

Also, most people will never need to fast charge their Bolt as they don't drive more than 230 miles in a day.

>>17704547
>free smells

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>>17712442
>The bolt uses a common standard fast charging port while the Tesla uses gay proprietary shit

I think you have that backwards. The Tesla charger is the standard now.

>>17710970
my crown vic is over twice that

>>17712324
Isn't that Mazda HCCI engine slated to have like 60% thermal efficiency?

>75 mpg AWD brapmobile when

>>17712442
>never need to fast charge

Did you know that the charging rate of a traditional car is in the megawatt range? Something like 7 megawatts.

Electric car is just a scam pulled on the rest of the taxpayers.

>>17710970
My BMW is 34 years old.

>>17712549
My prius can easily do 70mpg during city driving. I'm not the most popular car on the road though.

>>17701034

Considering that people who live close to their jobs and drive primarily in sub-10 mile trips are tesla's bread and butter, I don't see the issue here.

The battery degradation is only a big problem for people whose driving habits make them better off with diesels anyway.

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>>17701084
>15-19 years
>"""Life of the car"""

Wh-what?

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>>17712702
thats an old car, they were built differently back then. name a single car made since 2005 that has lasted longer than 15 years. oh wait, you cant. go fuck yourself.

>>17712761
Ya no shit the math doesn't add up retard

>>17710970
My 2003 dodge dakota which has 300k miles on it still has the original engine and runs good.

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>>17712761
Thanks for the keks anon.
In 2020 I'll still be driving my pos prelude

>>17712702
The entire car isnt fucking falling apart, it just needs a new battery.

>>17712572
oil companies get billions in tax breaks every year. they get to drill on public land for free. lobbied to have the government have special power to have an easier time using eminent domain to put in oil, gas, and gasoline pipelines.

>>17712296
CO2 is not a pollutant

>>17712506
Wrong. J1772 is the standard for charging.

For DC fast charge, there are two competing standards, Chademo and CCS.

Teslas have to use dongles in order to use these standard chargers, just like how Apple laptops have to use dongles to get standards like Ethernet, USB, VGA, HDMI, etc.

>>17701549
Lol most people including those in their AMG Mercedes, muscle cars, and BMWs and Porsche's cruise 45 while trying hesitantly merge onto the reeway anyways. My 108hp shitbox gets up to 60 fine well before the merge.

>>17713024
Also go to Plugshare's map.

Tell me how many Tesla stations there are compared to J1772 or Chademo/CCS.

Tesla is a proprietary Apple tier dongle company. If they were truly interested in making EVs viable for all, they would have put Chademo and CCS on their cars, instead of making a proprietary new plug and doubling up on infrastructure.

Imagine if we had two competing power companies in the US. Each company had their own plants and utility lines. It would be fucking retarded. That is what Tesla is doing.

>>17713024
The stranded is whatever the most of exist, whichever the people decide is the stranded.

Both are in consensus. Tesla is the standard. Everything EV related will forever be compared to Tesla to see if it meets the standard or not.

>>17713128
Teslas can charge on Chademo, J1772, or any 220v/110v plug in any market. All Teslas come with all those adapters aside from Chademo, since hardly anyone uses it, that adapter is sold separately.

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>>17713128
>go to Plugshare's map. Tell me how many Tesla stations there are compared to J1772 or Chademo/CCS.

Great idea!

>>17704194
Doesn't the
>8k used leaf
thing come from people buying EVs new, driving them for a couple months, hating them, and dumping them? I'm not one to put a huge amount of stock in someone else's experience, I mean a given car isn't for everyone. But it doesn't seem like a ringing endorsement compared to a car that somebody loves and keeps for 75k+.

>>17713532
>thing come from people buying EVs new, driving them for a couple months, hating them, and dumping them

Cant speak to how desirable an EV the leaf is, but consumer reports says 91% of current Tesla owners say their next car will be a Tesla.

>>17713554
I think it's more
>91% of tesla owners want their next car to be an EV
>Teslas are the best EVs on the market
thus the statistic. a lot of current non-tesla EV owners are going to get a tesla too.

There just needs to be more serious competition

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>>17712849

This right here. "Global warming" is a scam, used to be "global cooling" in the 70s, now is "climate change" (so literally any change is by default evidence. The c02 hoax and the neetbux tax credit are the only thing making the model 3 slightly viable economically, even then it's a city transit mobile only, and lines at charge stations will get exponentially worse without a battery swap system that will be exponentially more expensive than current model.

Literally the only thing I care about Elon doing is cucking the dealer mafia by selling factory direct. If a large ICE manufacturer started doing that I would no longer care about Tesla at all, they will have served their purpose and can die for all I give a shit.

>>17714313
Actually, the greatest thing about electric cars is that during nuclear war the liberals won't be able to flood to the red safe states and will have to die. Elon is /ourguy/

>>17713251
Plugshare can't load every charger on the map. You have to zoom in, retard.

>>17713218
>The stranded is whatever the most of exist
So, J1772 "EV Plug"? Which Tesla doesn't have?

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>>17714506
Wrong.

>>17714441
>nuclear way
>still having a power grid

Pick one. You'll starve to death long before you have to worry about recharging your car.

>>17714519
What are ICE generators. We got acres of land that are producing food anon. Or we could shoot a liberal, I mean deer for meat.

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>>17714517
>Dongle
I can adapt my Leaf to charge off of a Tesla charger with a dongle, too.

>>17713251
Here is a more accurate map. And it isn't even showing most of the stations, since there are so many they overlap or won't load this zoomed out. This map included Chademo,CCS, and J1772. No Telsa chargers shown.

>>17714540
>I can adapt my Leaf to charge off of a Tesla charger with a dongle, too.
No, you can't. Tesla chargers handshake through SWCAN with the vehicles and communicate with the BMS to ensure correct charging. If anyone could make an adapter to use Teslas superchargers you would see LEAFs, Volts, etc. at them all the time, but it hasn't (and can't) be done. Why are you posting when you clearly have no idea what you are talking about? Just feel like spewing off like a retard anonymously on the internet?

>>17714540
prove it

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>>17714566
>>17714681
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-rZ8nmjfeM

Get shut down.

https://electrek.co/2017/06/20/tesla-j1772-adapter-electric-cars-destination-chargers/

http://shop.quickchargepower.com/JDapter-Stub-Tesla-Charge-Station-Adaptor-JDPTRSTB.htm

>>17714856
>If anyone could make an adapter to use Teslas superchargers you would see LEAFs, Volts, etc. at them all the time
In addition, we don't need to buy the dongles. We have enough of our *industry universal standard* stations to where we don't need to resort to adapting to plugs our car doesn't have, like the J1772 to Tesla dongles, the Chademo to Tesla dongles, etc. Usually where there is a Tesla EVSE, there is a J1772 EVSE as well.

Fuck Tesla and their subsidies. They are just stealing money of red states and making money for liberals.

>>17714856
Would only work on 1st gen wall chargers at 40a, so that $400 adapter is next to useless, as you say in the next post, there's typically a J1772 charger at Tesla destination chargers.

>>17714949
>In addition, we don't need to buy the dongles
Neither do Tesla owners, because the car comes with all the adapters, allowing Tesla drivers to charge on every possible standard, while any other EV owner cannot say the same.

>>17701112
I'm not a teslashill but m8, what the fuck. I had a samsung galaxy S1 for close to 6 years until recently, and bought a S5. The only actual reasons to upgrade were the lack of a camera flash on the s1 and the fact that some apps required for my uni didn't work on old operating systems. I have had the same battery for the time I owned the phone and the capacity loss wasn't too bad. At first it had around 40% left at 21.00 and right before I switched it was 25% at 21.00

Maybe I just had luck with that phone or battery, classmates have had to swap batteries of various phone brands

>>17714979
>Would only work on 1st gen wall chargers at 40a
>"NOTE 7: Some second generation Tesla charge stations may requre up to 30 seconds to begin charging your EV"

Works on Gen 2 stations according to the website.

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>>17701013
Who knows?
Most of them run on energy sourced from burning brown coal too.
>captcha

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>>17701245

>>17701900
I'm not a tesla shill or anything, but it would stop you from hitting the car in front of you

>>17714958
t. Fox News

>>17710970
I have a 44 year old MG, a 48 year old VW and a 36 year old BMW for starters, looking on e-bay even Ford have 2007 cars up so if they can make a car last 10 years anyone can.

>>17704228

I'm supposed to replace my wipers every year?

>>17701111
You do realize that in laptops (also li-ion) reaching 70% battery capacity is a very concerning thing and is a sign to replace the battery because it starts losing capacity really fast and becomes useless. 30% capacity remaining is absolutely insane, just shows Tesla doesn't stand behind their batteries.

Also, guess how much milage a normal car loses in 8 years. I'll give you a hint: none. Literally keeping up with maintenance and you won't lose any. Can't say that about electric cars.

Then there's the whole discarding and recycling batteries, mining for more metals and such to make more.

So, what's really better for the environment, a 6k Civic (or fuck, even a new one since they get 45mpg now) or a 100k Tesla?

>>17716683
And I have a 48 old ford, 23 year old dodge, and a 15 year old chevy, all in good condition.

The Ford and Chevy also have 150,000+ miles on the Odo, and the dodge is at like 103,000

>>17701164
>Winter
>Canada

Oh fuck, lucky me. -30°C weather here for a month, plus -20°C weather another 5-6 months will sure be fun with a Tesla. Can't wait to be stranded on the side of a road a year into ownership freezing my ass off. But hey, environment, right guys...?

electric is the future and everyone itt needs to stop whining

it's coming whether you like it or not

>>17712761
wait we are allready in 2020?

>>17716717
What you save in near zero maintenence and fueling cost on an EV you could, you know, set aside for battery replacements.

Battery chemistry is getting better and better. If you bought a 2011 or 2012 Nissan Leaf with the older battery tech, you would have saved wayyyy more than enough by now to have replaced the battery with one of the newer chemistry longer life heat resistant batteries.

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>>17701013
because the sjws want to think they are doing the right things without actually doing them

>>17702854
>losses of around 9%
L O L

>>17712285
>huffingtonpost
L O L
O
L

>muh road trips

I've been hearing this about EVs since the 90s. Govt data shows that 90% of the driving done by 90% of drivers is with in the range of a Nissan LEAF.

Flying is generally faster and around the same price.

you could do like I do and rent a guzzoline car for those rare trips outside the range of 1 fast charge.

>>17702357
Not possible or even advisable without switching to green energy first. All these things should be done though, EVs alone won't be enough. Burning gasoline is retarded when methane, biodiesel etc are all possible.

>>17717900
even then, I don't see the problem with current EVs and roadtrips. Taking a 40min break to charge every three hours of driving is fine by me. Gives you time to relax or eat.

>>17717931
>dial up is better, everytime something loads, i just get up and get a snack or exersize!

>>17717951
>he's not pumping iron while shitposting

>>17701066
>has to insert politics into everything
Political parties were a mistake.

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>>17717638
This. Seriously fuck huffpost.

>>17701181
you must be european or retarded to think those points are anywhere fucking close to eachother

>>17706089
if you care about energy waste and effeciency either
>>>/n/
or shut the fuck up you hypocrite